Sandra Gilbert And Susan Gubar: American Women Writers
Summary
TLDRThe video is a part of a series titled 'American Stories Inspiration Today,' featuring a discussion with Sandra M. Gilbert and Susan Gubar about their latest book "Still Mad: American Women Writers and the Feminist Imagination." The two literary scholars reflect on the progress and challenges of women from the 1950s to the present, discussing the impact of feminist literature on society and politics in America. They highlight key figures from the feminist movement and how their contributions, along with cultural changes over time, have shaped the feminist landscape today. Throughout the event, numerous influential women writers, politicians, and cultural figures are mentioned to contextualize the current and historical struggles for gender equality, demonstrating both triumphs and the enduring nature of certain challenges women still face in society.
Takeaways
- π The discussion revolves around feminist literature and its cultural impact.
- π©βπ Sandra M. Gilbert and Susan Gubar lead the conversation.
- π°οΈ Focuses on the progression of women's roles from the 1950s to the present.
- π The book "Still Mad" explores these themes extensively.
- π₯ Influential women writers, like Sylvia Plath and Toni Morrison, are discussed.
- π Examines feminist imagination and its societal effects.
- πΊπΈ Women's political progress, including figures like Kamala Harris, is highlighted.
- π‘ The session underscores ongoing societal barriers for women.
- ποΈ Historical and modern feminist figures contribute to the conversation.
- π Despite progress, many challenges from the past remain relevant today.
Timeline
- 00:00:00 - 00:05:00
The discussion begins by highlighting the historical context of feminism and women's progress. The speakers reflect on the journey of women breaking barriers and question whether cultural changes have genuinely occurred, considering ongoing feelings of confusion and rebellion.
- 00:05:00 - 00:10:00
The speakers provide an overview of notable figures and works in the feminist movement towards the late 20th century. They discuss how these figures expanded identity politics and introduced queer theory in response to societal issues, including the AIDS epidemic.
- 00:10:00 - 00:15:00
The narrative progresses to the 21st century, focusing on various authors and public figures who have continued to push feminist ideals and address contemporary issues, including environmental threats and racial injustice, as illustrated through various works and public actions.
- 00:15:00 - 00:20:00
The conversation transitions to significant political events and figures in recent history, expressing how women's political advancements have faced backlash and the intersection of feminism with broader social movements, culminating in Amanda Gorman's impactful poetry.
- 00:20:00 - 00:25:00
The speakers tackle the challenges of historical women's roles in literature and how contemporary women writers have a more public presence, allowing them to be more direct and aggressive in their expression. They highlight ongoing struggles for equality, even amidst the progress.
- 00:25:00 - 00:30:00
A nuanced look at the personal conflicts of 1950s women sheds light on how their ambition clashed with societal expectations. The speakers draw connections between historical and modern feminist literature, emphasizing the lasting difficulty of balancing personal and professional roles for women.
- 00:30:00 - 00:35:00
Engaging with audience questions, the speakers discuss the feminist movement's utopian aspirations and the historical rarity of gender-equal societies. They contrast past imagined societies with modern political progress, emphasizing the ongoing journey toward full equality.
- 00:35:00 - 00:40:00
Further examination of literary connections underscores how modern feminist writers are influenced by historical figures, illustrating how past and present interconnect in the struggle for gender equality, especially in political spheres.
- 00:40:00 - 00:45:00
Delving into themes of grief in feminist literature highlights the personal nature of women's writings on loss, contrasting them with traditional male expressions, and discussing the role of emotion in feminist texts.
- 00:45:00 - 00:50:00
The exploration of genre innovation in feminist literature underscores how modern authors, especially in graphic novels and transgender narratives, are redefining feminist dialogue and reaching broader audiences through creative means.
- 00:50:00 - 00:57:51
Concluding thoughts focus on the evolution of feminist thought, particularly in collaboration and literary voice, as well as acknowledging the vital contributions of women of color in shaping the feminist literary tradition. The speakers express ongoing challenges and hope for the future.
Mind Map
Video Q&A
Who are the main speakers in the video?
Sandra M. Gilbert and Susan Gubar, literary scholars and co-authors.
What is the main focus of the video?
The evolution of feminist literature and women's roles in society from the 1950s to present.
What book is discussed during the event?
"Still Mad: American Women Writers and the Feminist Imagination" by Sandra M. Gilbert and Susan Gubar.
What era do the speakers primarily discuss in feminist history?
From the 1950s through the present, encompassing the second wave of feminism.
How do the speakers view the progress made by women in society?
They acknowledge significant progress but highlight ongoing challenges and societal barriers.
What themes are explored in the speakers' book?
Feminist imagination, literature's impact on gender issues, and cultural changes over time.
What notable example of feminist literature is repeatedly mentioned?
"The Handmaid's Tale" by Margaret Atwood.
How do the speakers interpret the second wave of feminism?
As a coherent movement that has greatly influenced but not completely achieved gender equality.
According to the speakers, which notable public figure exemplifies modern feminism?
Kamala Harris, for her historic role as Vice President of the United States.
What historical aspects influence the speakers' examination of feminism?
They look at the relationships between past women writers and the current feminist landscape.
View more video summaries
VIDEO: Manly P. Hall: Victory of the Soul Over Circumstance (remastered)
Water Cycle | How the Hydrologic Cycle Works
President Biden Delivers Remarks on his Actions to Fight Crime and Make Our Communities Safer
We R Memory Keepers - The Works All-In-One Tool Review
Sweatshops: A Sad Truth that still continues
Revolucion francesa (1789). Canal Encuentro.
- 00:00:00mantras of bygone day still ringing our
- 00:00:02ears we've come a long way professor
- 00:00:05we're shattering glass ceilings we can
- 00:00:07have it all we're leaning in and the
- 00:00:10culture's changing
- 00:00:11but is the culture really changing if it
- 00:00:14is why are we and so many of our friends
- 00:00:16still mad
- 00:00:17matt is in the sense of enraged matters
- 00:00:20in the sense of madden confused or
- 00:00:24rebellious
- 00:00:25maybe if you come a long way you
- 00:00:27encounter territorial backlash
- 00:00:29maybe if you shatter glass ceilings you
- 00:00:31have to walk on broken glass
- 00:00:34maybe if you lean in you topple over
- 00:00:37[Music]
- 00:00:42thanks for joining this event in the
- 00:00:43series american stories inspiration
- 00:00:46today presented by american ancestors
- 00:00:48new england historic genealogical
- 00:00:50society the boston public library porter
- 00:00:53square books and the gbh forum network
- 00:00:57all of us behind the scenes are
- 00:00:58delighted you're with us tonight in the
- 00:01:00land of history looking at women and
- 00:01:03literature america from a female
- 00:01:05perspective
- 00:01:07on your screen is the schedule for our
- 00:01:09hour-long event featuring professors
- 00:01:11sandra m gilbert and susan gubar with
- 00:01:14their just released book still mad
- 00:01:17american women writers and the feminist
- 00:01:19imagination turning quickly to
- 00:01:21introductions of our featured writers
- 00:01:24sandra m gilbert is a distinguished
- 00:01:27literary critic poet and professor
- 00:01:29emerita at the university of california
- 00:01:32davis she is joining us tonight from
- 00:01:35berkeley california professor gilbert
- 00:01:37most recently published a collection of
- 00:01:39poems called judgment day with susan
- 00:01:42gubar she co-authored the mad woman in
- 00:01:45the attic a finalist for the pulitzer
- 00:01:48prize in 1980 my co-host christian will
- 00:01:52share more about tonight's authors uh
- 00:01:54kristen over to you
- 00:01:55thank you margaret good to be here with
- 00:01:57you and with david and with our partners
- 00:01:59at the gbh forum network hello and
- 00:02:01welcome i'm kristen maddy from the
- 00:02:03boston public library i'd like to share
- 00:02:06just a quick bit of information about
- 00:02:08professor susan bubar susan gubar is an
- 00:02:11acclaimed memoirist literary critic and
- 00:02:14professor emerita at indiana university
- 00:02:18and the author most recently of late
- 00:02:20life love a memoir
- 00:02:23in addition to being the co-author of
- 00:02:25the mad woman in the attic as margaret
- 00:02:27mentioned she along with professor
- 00:02:29sandra gilbert co-edited the norton
- 00:02:31anthology of literature by women
- 00:02:34in 2012 the pair were awarded the ivan
- 00:02:37sandro lifetime achievement award by the
- 00:02:40national book critic circle
- 00:02:42professor gubar is coming to us tonight
- 00:02:44from bloomington indiana we'll welcome
- 00:02:46them both in in a moment we're so glad
- 00:02:48they're here with us margaret back to
- 00:02:50you
- 00:02:51moving right along sandra and susan
- 00:02:54again it is such an honor to welcome you
- 00:02:56to our humble series here in boston and
- 00:02:59cambridge um you are superstars in the
- 00:03:02academic world and among all of us who
- 00:03:04thoughtfully read literature
- 00:03:06particularly women's literature
- 00:03:08we can't wait to hear from you over to
- 00:03:09you for some history about your work
- 00:03:11together and american women writers
- 00:03:15thank you so very much for having us for
- 00:03:18inviting us it feels kind of mystic too
- 00:10:28during the last two decades of the 20th
- 00:10:30century the work of andrew andrea
- 00:10:33dwarken on your left gloria anzaldua in
- 00:10:36the center and toni morrison on the
- 00:10:39right elaborated upon identity politics
- 00:10:42transnationalism
- 00:10:44and intersectionality as did adrian rich
- 00:10:47dwarken in her battle against
- 00:10:49pornography
- 00:10:50fans will do it in the concept of
- 00:10:52mestiza consciousness morrison in her
- 00:10:55prize-winning novel beloved as well as
- 00:10:58her critical publications on race and
- 00:11:00gender and rich in essays and poems
- 00:11:03about being part jewish or split at the
- 00:11:06root
- 00:11:08by the 90s feminist academics like eve
- 00:11:11sedgwick and judith butler were
- 00:11:13responding to the homophobia fueled by
- 00:11:16the aids epidemic to enlist feminists in
- 00:11:19defending the rights of gay men
- 00:11:22in the process they generated queer
- 00:11:24theory as well as much of the language
- 00:11:26we now use about non-binary genderqueer
- 00:11:30or transgender people
- 00:11:34in the same decade the poet anne carson
- 00:11:37dramatized the painful engendering of
- 00:11:39erotic romance while postmodern
- 00:11:42entertainers think of madonna and
- 00:11:44transsexual authors for instance leslie
- 00:11:47feinberg and kate bornstein sought to
- 00:11:50dismantle outbound gender binaries but
- 00:11:53by the end of the 90s feminists radical
- 00:11:56liberal straight gay black chicano
- 00:11:59postcolonial post-structuralist
- 00:12:01post-modernist were splintered in an
- 00:12:03american culture that lumped them all
- 00:12:05together and demonized them as in the
- 00:12:07infamous words of rush limp for
- 00:12:10feminazis
- 00:12:12not pictured here are the women who
- 00:12:13joined in this backlash against feminism
- 00:12:17so it's a real relief to land in the
- 00:12:1921st century with alice and bechtel and
- 00:12:22eve ensler who now calls herself v
- 00:12:26in her graphic novels fun home and are
- 00:12:28you my mother
- 00:12:30bechtel explores the impact of the
- 00:12:32second wave on parents born before it
- 00:12:35and daughters born after it
- 00:12:37in multiple performances of her
- 00:12:39celebrated plague the vagina monologues
- 00:12:43as in her subsequent global campaign one
- 00:12:45million rising enzler or v sought to
- 00:12:48raise consciousness about ongoing
- 00:12:51violence against women
- 00:12:53in 2008 susan stryker brought out her
- 00:12:57transgender history and in 2016
- 00:13:00maggie nelson
- 00:13:02maggie nelson's the argonauts won the
- 00:13:03national critics circle award both
- 00:13:06reflect the rise of transgender studies
- 00:13:09and the prominence of trans as well as
- 00:13:11non-binary advocates
- 00:13:16at the same time feminist writers were
- 00:13:19aligning themselves with activists
- 00:13:20against ongoing racial injustice and
- 00:13:23ongoing environmental threats to the
- 00:13:25planet claudia rankin's citizen makes
- 00:13:28black lives matter while n.k jemisin's
- 00:13:31broken earth trilogy describes the
- 00:13:34suffering inflicted by cataclysmic
- 00:13:36climate changes like what we're seeing
- 00:13:38now after the acceleration of global
- 00:13:40warming
- 00:13:41as the metoo movement evolved patricia
- 00:13:44lockwood's memoir priest daddy and
- 00:13:46rebecca solman's essays protested what
- 00:13:49sonar called mansplaining in a society
- 00:13:52that continued to be ruled by patriarchs
- 00:13:54often vicious in their subjugation of
- 00:13:56women
- 00:13:58beyonce is probably the most famous
- 00:14:01example
- 00:14:02of the growing impact of feminism on
- 00:14:04american popular culture today
- 00:14:07especially in her movie homecoming which
- 00:14:09repeatedly quotes audrey lord tony
- 00:14:11morrison and other pioneers of black
- 00:14:14feminism
- 00:14:16also a celebrity margaret atwood whose
- 00:14:18handmaid's tale was reinvented as a tv
- 00:14:21series at the start of the trump
- 00:14:23administration
- 00:14:24composed its hopeful sequel the
- 00:14:26testaments to suggest that sisterhood is
- 00:14:29still powerful enough to bring about a
- 00:14:32better world
- 00:14:33the feminist imagination continues to
- 00:14:36rely on dystopian and utopian fantasies
- 00:14:42while the second wave was going through
- 00:14:44a revival in the 21st century with such
- 00:14:47political figures as alexandria arcasia
- 00:14:50cortes and stacy abrams herself a
- 00:14:52novelist by the way
- 00:14:54many were they were organizing the
- 00:14:57disenfranchised to secure their rights
- 00:14:59under the law
- 00:15:02and they were doing this while nancy
- 00:15:04pelosi was the most powerful woman in
- 00:15:07american politics second in line of
- 00:15:09succession to the presidency like many
- 00:15:12of her colleagues pelosi wore a white
- 00:15:14suit when she tore up trump's state of
- 00:15:17the union speech before television
- 00:15:19cameras to honor the white-clad
- 00:15:21suffragists who fueled her anger and
- 00:15:24paved the path to rebellion
- 00:15:27after the shocking defeat of hillary
- 00:15:29clinton in 2016 it was especially
- 00:15:31wonderful to celebrate the triumph of
- 00:15:33vice president kamala harris in 2020 the
- 00:15:36first woman to rise to such prominence
- 00:15:39as well as first lady dr jill biden the
- 00:15:42first first lady to continue pursuing a
- 00:15:45professional career out of the white
- 00:15:47house
- 00:15:48of course there was backlash against
- 00:15:50them all most shockingly on january 6
- 00:15:54when toxic masculinity and proto-fascism
- 00:15:58raged through washington dc
- 00:16:01did the glass ceilings feminists had
- 00:16:03shattered issue in the broken windows of
- 00:16:05the capitol
- 00:16:07will mad women
- 00:16:08angry women always spawn mad men
- 00:16:12we managed to evade such a gloomy
- 00:16:14conclusion when 22 year old
- 00:16:16african-american
- 00:16:18african-american amanda gorman recited a
- 00:16:21poem on the inaugural stage
- 00:16:23we will not be turned around she
- 00:16:25declared or interrupted by intimidation
- 00:16:30all the women of the feminist movement
- 00:16:33who met marched struggled and brought a
- 00:16:36new order into being help teach her
- 00:16:38those words and now would echo them
- 00:16:42so margaret and kristen i gather you
- 00:16:44have some questions and we look forward
- 00:16:46to hearing them
- 00:16:48we uh we have so many questions i hope
- 00:16:50we can squeeze them all in and we're
- 00:16:52going to work very hard at that um that
- 00:16:54was really a tremendous review of
- 00:16:57influential american women really
- 00:16:59enjoyed your powerpoint and you uh most
- 00:17:01of them writers but you slipped in so
- 00:17:03many others the powerful beyonce um
- 00:17:06among the writers there we have stuff
- 00:17:08studied all of us so many of their works
- 00:17:11um we've read and re-read them
- 00:17:14you make me want to go back and read
- 00:17:15more for sure um i really enjoyed your
- 00:17:19book still mad um i it's highlighted and
- 00:17:22dog-eared and i know everybody in the
- 00:17:24audience is going to do the same uh one
- 00:17:26of them
- 00:17:27it's really
- 00:17:28a treasure
- 00:17:29thank you thank thank you for making
- 00:17:31that effort and doing that um again and
- 00:17:34we want you to do it again in 20 years
- 00:17:35so we're going to stick around for that
- 00:17:37please
- 00:17:39keeping on right yes please please you
- 00:17:42of all people um one of the many things
- 00:17:44that struck me about it though was um
- 00:17:47that you really do go back in time and
- 00:17:49refer back to a lot of other women
- 00:17:51writers um in the past um emily bronte
- 00:17:54born in 1818 sarah orange jewett born in
- 00:17:581849 charlotte perkins gilman gertrude
- 00:18:00stein virginia woolf who was so very
- 00:18:03critical of victorian england i know a
- 00:18:05lot of that is in the mad women in the
- 00:18:07attic but can you tell me how these
- 00:18:09women writers america
- 00:18:11connect to the american women writers
- 00:18:13that you are talking about in your
- 00:18:15presentation and in the book you really
- 00:18:17go through time back and forth
- 00:18:19well as virginia woolf put it women we
- 00:18:22think through our four mothers when we
- 00:18:25are writers and i think many of these
- 00:18:27women writers were thinking through
- 00:18:28these form for their foremothers uh ann
- 00:18:30carson for example was obsessed with
- 00:18:33emily bronte in her brilliant poem the
- 00:18:35glass essay
- 00:18:36and uh i
- 00:18:38i personally have a theory that some of
- 00:18:40james tiptree's work was was really a
- 00:18:43riff on charlotte perkins gilman's
- 00:18:44utopian herland
- 00:18:47um
- 00:18:48and i know that susan has a lot of
- 00:18:50thoughts yeah alison bechtel
- 00:18:52well alison bechtel is definitely
- 00:18:54thinking back through her literary
- 00:18:56mother virginia woolf
- 00:18:58um in
- 00:18:59a lot of her graphics she draws pictures
- 00:19:02of to the lighthouse and of maps that
- 00:19:04wolf herself drew
- 00:19:06um
- 00:19:08on the structure of of to the lighthouse
- 00:19:10allison bechtel who created the bechtel
- 00:19:13list
- 00:19:14um which is a a test with
- 00:19:17not really whether a movie is feminist
- 00:19:19but whether it's friendly to women a
- 00:19:21movie has to have two women talking to
- 00:19:23each other about something other than a
- 00:19:26man that's the bechtel list and she gets
- 00:19:28that idea i'm sure from from uh virginia
- 00:19:32woolf who basically said that we need
- 00:19:34more stories about two women working
- 00:19:36together in a laboratory
- 00:19:38so they are thinking back as sanji said
- 00:19:41through their precursors through their
- 00:19:43ancestors
- 00:19:45and they find enormous energy in the
- 00:19:47earlier texts so that for example one
- 00:19:49last example claudia rankine
- 00:19:52is writing citizen in the 21st century
- 00:19:55in a dialogue with zora neale hurston
- 00:19:57who produced her work in 20s
- 00:20:00right and even and even judy chicago who
- 00:20:02was a who was an artist
- 00:20:04and not a writer it materializes this in
- 00:20:08the in the dinner party with all of
- 00:20:09those plates representing women for all
- 00:20:11the criticism that was leveled at her
- 00:20:14including a plate on emily dickinson
- 00:20:16right it wasn't emily dickinson played i
- 00:20:18mean i personally don't like the design
- 00:20:20of it but there wasn't emily dickinson
- 00:20:22played and there were a number of you
- 00:20:24know
- 00:20:25important women plates in the in the in
- 00:20:28the dinner party there was a sojourner
- 00:20:30truth play
- 00:20:31which is problematic
- 00:20:33did you say who adrian rich
- 00:20:36who does adrian rich think of as her
- 00:20:37mother do you think i mean you have a
- 00:20:39quote here that she was enraged by
- 00:20:41history and that's of course you know
- 00:20:43maybe history with a big age not you
- 00:20:46know women's history but did she look
- 00:20:48back to anybody addressing she does in a
- 00:20:50lot of her poems she looks back a lot to
- 00:20:52mary wollstonecraft and she also looks
- 00:20:54back to emily dickinson
- 00:20:56very much so and she looks back to
- 00:20:58charlotte bronte yeah she wrote a
- 00:21:00brilliant essay about charlotte bronte
- 00:21:02also like virginia woolf she was very
- 00:21:04very interested in education for women
- 00:21:06so she wrote an essay on women's college
- 00:21:09just the way a room of one's own is a
- 00:21:11meditation on what it would mean to have
- 00:21:12a college for women
- 00:21:15that's wonderful well we have david
- 00:21:16coming on here with a question um any
- 00:21:18moment uh and he's gonna take us even
- 00:21:21further back into history um david go
- 00:21:23ahead welcome sure thank you um i'm
- 00:21:26honored to to be able to ask a question
- 00:21:28um the 19th century women writers were
- 00:21:32much more politically and culturally
- 00:21:34invisible
- 00:21:35than their male counterparts and and you
- 00:21:38talk a lot in mad women in the attic is
- 00:21:41is that they wrote because writing was
- 00:21:43literally the only way they had to get
- 00:21:45their word out they weren't they weren't
- 00:21:47public figures uh the women in this book
- 00:21:51uh by contrast um while some of them are
- 00:21:54politicians most of them
- 00:21:57were not
- 00:21:59but they were able to be very active and
- 00:22:01public and have forum for their ideas
- 00:22:04and their arguments um so did that i'm
- 00:22:07curious two things one did that make
- 00:22:09writing less important as a tool for
- 00:22:12protest
- 00:22:13uh and two um did it when they did write
- 00:22:16did it make them
- 00:22:18uh able to use literature as more
- 00:22:20directly and aggressively uh to make
- 00:22:23their to to uh vent their uh rage and uh
- 00:22:28then then the women in the 19th century
- 00:22:30who had to be more subtle and indirect
- 00:22:32in the way that they used writing
- 00:22:34absolutely women in the 20s
- 00:22:36sorry
- 00:22:37very good question because the 19th
- 00:22:40century
- 00:22:41um the anger we say is basically in the
- 00:22:44attic it's concealed inside the attic
- 00:22:47and it has to be decoded in in order to
- 00:22:50make it
- 00:22:51visible because there's so much anxiety
- 00:22:54about talking about anger these women
- 00:22:56who were writing as you say were in the
- 00:22:58private sphere whereas the 20th century
- 00:23:01women are in the public sphere as
- 00:23:03journalists as singers as playwrights
- 00:23:05they're outside the home as well as
- 00:23:07inside the home well well even as poets
- 00:23:11uh women had women were on stage i mean
- 00:23:14andrea and rich did countless readings
- 00:23:16sylvia plath read for the for the bbc
- 00:23:18they recorded in the harvard library um
- 00:23:21you know these women were very public
- 00:23:23but also i just want to suggest that one
- 00:23:26of the distinctions between the mad
- 00:23:28woman and still mad is that the mad
- 00:23:30woman is close readings of texts that
- 00:23:32were very intricately layered and often
- 00:23:35full of secrets
- 00:23:36while still mad is more like a political
- 00:23:39analysis and a sweeping historical
- 00:23:42account of
- 00:23:44how these women both in the public and
- 00:23:46the private sphere made their voices
- 00:23:48heard
- 00:23:50and that's how we begin with a
- 00:23:52politician with hillary clinton and we
- 00:23:53end with the politician
- 00:23:55uh nancy pelosi right so your point
- 00:23:58about anger being so much more direct it
- 00:24:00doesn't need to be un decoded by us it's
- 00:24:04it's right there so we're interested in
- 00:24:07how do we trace what the angle was aimed
- 00:24:10at and how they coped with it and how it
- 00:24:12shaped the political movement namely the
- 00:24:14second wave of feminism you could say
- 00:24:16that anger took the escalator down out
- 00:24:19of the attic or went down the stairs and
- 00:24:21out into the parlor and then out into
- 00:24:23the front yard and then across the
- 00:24:25street and into the city into the polis
- 00:24:31good questions great question
- 00:24:34uh i want to move forward in time a
- 00:24:36little bit from there um
- 00:24:38to
- 00:24:39you there's a line in your book that
- 00:24:41talks about quote the extraordinary
- 00:24:43confusion of the 1950s for young women
- 00:24:46at that time the conformity of that
- 00:24:49decade i'm so curious about if you could
- 00:24:52just talk a little bit more about what
- 00:24:53it did to the literature and to the
- 00:24:56women um of that time you called sylvia
- 00:24:58plath the
- 00:24:59oxymoron which i loved
- 00:25:03so tell us
- 00:25:05in a sense an incarnation of the
- 00:25:08problems of the 50s she was she was
- 00:25:10brought up to be as ambitious as a boy
- 00:25:13um she had a brother who was was not
- 00:25:16valued above her she was
- 00:25:20was encouraged at smith college to to
- 00:25:23follow her star
- 00:25:24she was ferociously ambitious but her
- 00:25:28ferocious ambition also included an
- 00:25:31ambition to be feminine and to be
- 00:25:33successful as a girl and i mean as a
- 00:25:36girl as a girl dating going being
- 00:25:38invited to the yale junior prom for
- 00:25:40example earlier she made paper dolls of
- 00:25:43you know fantastic figures dressed up
- 00:25:45like vogue models
- 00:25:47and the the the the oxymoronic nature of
- 00:25:50that the way in which she was both
- 00:25:52feminine and feminist without even
- 00:25:55knowing the word feminism
- 00:25:57was in a way
- 00:25:59it fuels her greatest poems like daddy
- 00:26:02for example the rage at the patriarchy
- 00:26:05but it also in a way destroyed her
- 00:26:07because when her marriage fell apart she
- 00:26:10had wanted to be a triple threat woman
- 00:26:11and now she had failed
- 00:26:13and one of the things that she was
- 00:26:14brought up to believe she should be
- 00:26:16successful at marriage
- 00:26:18so
- 00:26:20i think the 50s is the place where we
- 00:26:22see the contradiction between ambition
- 00:26:25and artistry on the one hand
- 00:26:27and
- 00:26:29the desire for a conventional life a
- 00:26:32husband uh children
- 00:26:34and the need to want to have it both
- 00:26:37want to have it all and how difficult
- 00:26:39that is in the 50s given the structure
- 00:26:41of the culture and how difficult
- 00:26:43unfortunately it still is today for many
- 00:26:45women
- 00:26:48yeah you mentioned
- 00:26:49the cauldron of the 50s in the cauldron
- 00:26:52of the 50s was brewing the 1970s
- 00:26:55uh which is just such a great um visual
- 00:26:59uh
- 00:27:00so i think we're going to start to move
- 00:27:02on to some other questions um kristen i
- 00:27:04think you're there and um
- 00:27:07ladies thank you so much and i'll be
- 00:27:08back and kristen over to you for some
- 00:27:11more more questioning great thank you so
- 00:27:13much margaret and now we're going to
- 00:27:15start to hear from some of our audience
- 00:27:17members we got a lot of great questions
- 00:27:19with the registration form and chris
- 00:27:22stan from
- 00:27:23oregon asks are women positioned to
- 00:27:26transform civilization or have we been
- 00:27:29so disempowered for so long
- 00:27:32that we have no control so i'll toss
- 00:27:34that over to both of you to to answer
- 00:27:37that and then we'll hear from some more
- 00:27:39audience members
- 00:27:40i think in a way that question goes to
- 00:27:42the heart of the feminist project
- 00:27:45because what feminists want to do
- 00:27:47is to transform culture so that women
- 00:27:50are no longer subordinated
- 00:27:52and subjugated by men
- 00:27:54one of the one of the central strains in
- 00:27:56feminist writing is utopian and
- 00:27:58dystopian writing dystopias often
- 00:28:01reflect the world that we live in or
- 00:28:03make it seem even worse like in the
- 00:28:05handmaid's tale
- 00:28:06and utopias uh such as of um charlotte
- 00:28:10perkins gilman's herland or james
- 00:28:12tiptree junior's
- 00:28:14houston houston do you hear
- 00:28:16i really imagine a world that is
- 00:28:19successfully empowered by women and
- 00:28:22powered by women
- 00:28:23so um
- 00:28:25the feminist project is really to do
- 00:28:27that it is to transform the world so
- 00:28:30that women
- 00:28:31are equally powerful
- 00:28:34so that women can
- 00:28:36enroll so that women can rule the world
- 00:28:39or can co-rule the world with men
- 00:28:42you want to comment on that susan
- 00:28:44because i think that's certainly an
- 00:28:45important part of the feminist
- 00:28:47imagination
- 00:28:48um i think in politics and struggle of
- 00:28:52the second wave many women
- 00:28:54don't want to rule the world and they
- 00:28:57don't want to be saviors and they don't
- 00:28:59but they do want equality
- 00:29:02and that's all i'm saying they want to
- 00:29:03co-rule the world yeah
- 00:29:05and they
- 00:29:06and they want i i think when when i when
- 00:29:09i hear you know i i just think that many
- 00:29:12some women of course have always
- 00:29:14believed that there are goddesses or
- 00:29:16that there are saviors nobody has used
- 00:29:18the word savior here
- 00:29:19yeah
- 00:29:20but i think in the imagination of
- 00:29:22certainly in the literary imagination we
- 00:29:24see the importance of
- 00:29:26imagining a best place a utopia and a
- 00:29:30worst place
- 00:29:32and the worst place has everything to do
- 00:29:34in the feminist imagination with male
- 00:29:36domination with tyranny with
- 00:29:38subordination and with violence against
- 00:29:40women i totally agree with that
- 00:29:44thank you for that
- 00:29:46we have welcomed some of our audience
- 00:29:49members here to join us around on the
- 00:29:51virtual stage and i'd like to invite
- 00:29:54camille to pose her first question
- 00:29:57so camille over to you and thank you for
- 00:30:00your question
- 00:30:05thank you thanks for this presentation i
- 00:30:08like your idea of not dominating but
- 00:30:10when do you see full equality
- 00:30:14justice ginsburg said it would be when
- 00:30:17there were nine women on the supreme
- 00:30:19court
- 00:30:20so how do you see that
- 00:30:22and thank you again for your
- 00:30:24presentation and for inviting us
- 00:30:27i was just going to say that i was just
- 00:30:29going to vote ginsburg on nine women on
- 00:30:31the supreme court but i would also say
- 00:30:34when kamala harris would not be vice
- 00:30:36president but president
- 00:30:38i mean ours is one of the one of the
- 00:30:40only industrial uh countries or one of
- 00:30:42one of the
- 00:30:43you know
- 00:30:44one of the only countries that has not
- 00:30:46ever had a woman later
- 00:30:49many many other countries have women
- 00:30:51presidents just the way other countries
- 00:30:53have health care systems right so it
- 00:30:55would be very nice if our country could
- 00:30:57have uh a woman at the at the top of the
- 00:31:00pyramid not to rule and dominate but to
- 00:31:03join in the ruling of the world at the
- 00:31:06moment there are you know like how many
- 00:31:08women in the senate
- 00:31:10and and
- 00:31:11susan remember the the problem about
- 00:31:13bathrooms for women and enough bathrooms
- 00:31:15they didn't have enough bathrooms when
- 00:31:17women started going to the senate there
- 00:31:18was like no women's bathroom in the
- 00:31:20senate
- 00:31:21and then that was really very not until
- 00:31:23very late in the 20th century was there
- 00:31:26were there women bathrooms
- 00:31:28i the the sad underlying story here is
- 00:31:31that when we look back on the long haul
- 00:31:33of history
- 00:31:35we don't have many examples of truly
- 00:31:39equal societies
- 00:31:41there are myths about matriarchies and
- 00:31:44there are uh legends about
- 00:31:47equal societies
- 00:31:50but there are very few historical
- 00:31:54actual evidences of
- 00:31:56fully equi full equality gender equality
- 00:31:59in the history
- 00:32:01of humankind so in that sense i think
- 00:32:04that underlying sanchez's point before
- 00:32:06this is a utopian hope
- 00:32:09that is it's it's a hope it's a hope to
- 00:32:11establish something that hasn't really
- 00:32:13had a historical precedent
- 00:32:17oh but what is unprecedented is that is
- 00:32:20the transformation of society from the
- 00:32:22from the uh from the 19th century to the
- 00:32:25beginning of the 21st century we would
- 00:32:27not be on this we would not be in these
- 00:32:30in the zoom
- 00:32:31in this zoom box
- 00:32:33um
- 00:32:34we would not be wearing wearing
- 00:32:36pantsuits we would not be doing most of
- 00:32:38the things that we do if we were living
- 00:32:40200 years ago oh i mean there has never
- 00:32:43been there has never been a historical
- 00:32:45moment when women could speak in public
- 00:32:47as we can speak in public
- 00:32:50what you're saying is that you see signs
- 00:32:53of progress right but we don't see
- 00:32:56we don't see models in the past of the
- 00:32:59full equality that we aim for
- 00:33:02no we don't see models in the past
- 00:33:03except in the in the in the products of
- 00:33:06the of the female imagination of the
- 00:33:08right
- 00:33:09right right where women from from
- 00:33:11charlotte uh from christine to pisan
- 00:33:13through charlotte perkins gilman were
- 00:33:15imagining utopias in which women
- 00:33:18were able to express themselves and to
- 00:33:20be powerful
- 00:33:21christina pisona in the 14th century
- 00:33:23wrote the city of ladies in which the it
- 00:33:26was a women's educational institution
- 00:33:28but also a kind of republic of women
- 00:33:30and charlotte perkins gilman of course
- 00:33:32produced her land in the late 19th early
- 00:33:3520th century
- 00:33:36and now in a way
- 00:33:39with all of those women in in congress
- 00:33:41wearing white pad suits as nancy pelosi
- 00:33:44tore up the state of the union speech we
- 00:33:47were beginning to see in reality
- 00:33:49something like what people had only
- 00:33:51dreamt of in the 19th century it was it
- 00:33:53really happened we really saw it
- 00:33:57yeah
- 00:33:59great thank you so much for that um
- 00:34:01thank you camille for your question for
- 00:34:03sharing with us
- 00:34:05kelly you are next what's your question
- 00:34:08thank you
- 00:34:09thank you for your beautiful book and
- 00:34:11for this wonderful conversation i'm
- 00:34:13really delighted to be part of it um
- 00:34:16i have like many people i expect have
- 00:34:19been thinking and reading a lot about
- 00:34:21grieving and grief
- 00:34:23and how we express grief
- 00:34:25in joan didion's two books about the
- 00:34:27loss of her husband and her daughter she
- 00:34:29expresses her the grief at her loss but
- 00:34:32also her longing and yearning and
- 00:34:34wishing to bring them back to life which
- 00:34:37she does in a way by writing about them
- 00:34:40have you seen the themes of grief and
- 00:34:42yearning as part of the feminist writing
- 00:34:45tradition
- 00:34:46or common to the lived experience of the
- 00:34:48writers you've studied
- 00:34:50i would like to respond to that um by
- 00:34:53saying that i have studied allergy women
- 00:34:56allergies written by women and by men
- 00:34:58and i noticed that there is a really
- 00:35:00distinctive difference um until actually
- 00:35:03things change a little bit in the 20th
- 00:35:05century but in women's poetry
- 00:35:08about about loss as in gideon's books
- 00:35:11and as in countless memoirs by by women
- 00:35:13who are grieving losses uh
- 00:35:16women are much more personal
- 00:35:21tactile almost
- 00:35:23i mean like the shoes right that the
- 00:35:25pair of shoes with which that book
- 00:35:27starts and and the shoes go back
- 00:35:29actually to jacob's room by virginia
- 00:35:31woolf where jacob dies her protagonist
- 00:35:34died dies in the in the first world war
- 00:35:36and his mother picks up a pair of shoes
- 00:35:39and says what will i do with them and in
- 00:35:41the year of magical thinking gideon
- 00:35:42picks up her husband's shoes and says
- 00:35:44boy i need to keep him because he might
- 00:35:46come back and need them now men don't
- 00:35:48write that way about grief until maybe
- 00:35:50during the 20th century they are
- 00:35:52influenced by women's writing i mean
- 00:35:54this this influence the dynamics go two
- 00:35:56ways in in grief writing um
- 00:35:59but it is really true that
- 00:36:02going back almost to classical great
- 00:36:04culture women went into the woods
- 00:36:06and howled like the bakay for example
- 00:36:10but men spoke on the public stage with
- 00:36:13extremely controlled rhetoric so the
- 00:36:15classic pastoral elegy for example was
- 00:36:18by a male poet
- 00:36:20of
- 00:36:21mourning for the loss of of of another
- 00:36:24man
- 00:36:24uh and women didn't write that kind of
- 00:36:26stuff they wrote about the loss of
- 00:36:28babies the loss of husbands and they
- 00:36:30wrote personally and and various i say
- 00:36:33very almost tactilely um
- 00:36:35but then in the 20th century men start
- 00:36:37writing more like women so they've been
- 00:36:39influenced by by a kind of female
- 00:36:41tradition here
- 00:36:43i would like to add that
- 00:36:45where i see grief in in the feminist
- 00:36:48tradition
- 00:36:49is in uh kate millet and
- 00:36:52and andrea dwarken and to a certain
- 00:36:54extent gloria anzaldua all of whom are
- 00:36:57writing about the difficulties of women
- 00:37:01who are suffering domestic battery abuse
- 00:37:05domestic violence um millet mourns uh
- 00:37:10met women who have been killed by their
- 00:37:12husbands
- 00:37:13and it and has written some really grief
- 00:37:16drenched
- 00:37:18books on um
- 00:37:20on what male dominance means in a
- 00:37:23personal individual level i also think
- 00:37:25we should
- 00:37:26mention that didion plays a rather
- 00:37:28equivocal role in still mad um because
- 00:37:32uh one of the themes we trace in still
- 00:37:34mad
- 00:37:35is the um
- 00:37:36the voices of women who are
- 00:37:39anti-feminists and didion to some extent
- 00:37:42falls into that rubric in the 70s she
- 00:37:45seems to associate feminism with the
- 00:37:47victimization of women rather than as a
- 00:37:50protest against the victimization of
- 00:37:52women
- 00:37:52so we have we have a sort of she she
- 00:37:55plays an equivocal role
- 00:37:58thank you for that
- 00:38:00sharon
- 00:38:01your question
- 00:38:03okay um thanks so much for having me and
- 00:38:06hello susan and sandra i've heard
- 00:38:09sandra read her poetry in the bay area
- 00:38:11when i used to live there
- 00:38:13so um my question i was fascinated by
- 00:38:15gene reese's novel
- 00:38:17wide sargasso sea which gave such a
- 00:38:20sympathetic view of bertha a mad woman
- 00:38:23in the attic of charlotte bronte's novel
- 00:38:25jane eyre and i wondered what what do
- 00:38:28you think she and charlotte might say to
- 00:38:30each other about the character if they
- 00:38:32could meet
- 00:38:36andrew
- 00:38:37i said i think charlotte would be
- 00:38:38scandalized
- 00:38:40i don't know i think she would be
- 00:38:41completely scandalized by the idea of
- 00:38:43giving birth a voice
- 00:38:45um she just she can't imagine birth as
- 00:38:48real i mean bertha is so uh physically
- 00:38:52other so racially other
- 00:38:54so
- 00:38:55madly other and yet the same as
- 00:38:58animalistic and yet at the same time
- 00:39:00she's everything that that
- 00:39:02jane and charlotte herself have been
- 00:39:05taught to repress
- 00:39:06and but we know that they she hasn't
- 00:39:09been repressed because she is there she
- 00:39:10is in the attic raging away
- 00:39:12and ultimately burning the house down
- 00:39:14and leveling the playing field for
- 00:39:17rochester and jane
- 00:39:19so um
- 00:39:20i i think that she would be scandalized
- 00:39:22by by chain reasons i agree it's very
- 00:39:24brilliant of jane reese however to go
- 00:39:26back into the past and give birth a
- 00:39:28voice
- 00:39:30because jean raised herself new knew the
- 00:39:31caribbean and so she was she could write
- 00:39:34about that and she could really she
- 00:39:37could really go to the bottom of it she
- 00:39:38could go to the orange to the original
- 00:39:41place where bertha came from and give it
- 00:39:43a kind of reality
- 00:39:45that that i think is quite wonderful
- 00:39:48i
- 00:39:49yeah i i think she would have been
- 00:39:51scandalized
- 00:39:55thank you so much and peter over to you
- 00:39:57for your question
- 00:40:00great thank you and uh thank you sandra
- 00:40:02and susan it's a pleasure to see you uh
- 00:40:04really appreciate your all your work and
- 00:40:06really excited about what you'll be
- 00:40:07doing even further beyond beyond today
- 00:40:09um you've already touched on one of my
- 00:40:11favorite authors it's more of a sort of
- 00:40:13a current or contemporary writer which
- 00:40:14is alison bechtel um who fascinates me
- 00:40:17not just by the story she tells but that
- 00:40:19she's a graphic novelist so she's
- 00:40:20working in a slightly different medium
- 00:40:23so that's that's where i like to direct
- 00:40:24my question it's sort of the current
- 00:40:26environment and how you see that in the
- 00:40:28broader context of what you're talking
- 00:40:29about another example might be um uh
- 00:40:33there's a terrific actually comic book
- 00:40:34written by an american woman uh kelly
- 00:40:36sue deconic called planet um which
- 00:40:40is very femme centric and very exciting
- 00:40:41and i'm also thinking of carmen maria
- 00:40:43machado who wrote in the dream house
- 00:40:45which is a it's a tough subject it's
- 00:40:47about an abusive relationship but it's
- 00:40:48done in a very imaginative imaginative
- 00:40:50way that sort of breaks through the
- 00:40:52traditional style so my question to you
- 00:40:54is to you both is how do you see the the
- 00:40:56present day
- 00:40:57transgender or gender rights authors uh
- 00:41:00situated within the the longer feminist
- 00:41:03literary tradition
- 00:41:05i think that the transgender
- 00:41:07conversation starts in the 80s and 90s
- 00:41:10oddly enough with lesbian separatists
- 00:41:13who are
- 00:41:14objecting to trans women as men who are
- 00:41:18going to the women's festivals that are
- 00:41:20supposed to be only for women and
- 00:41:22transgressing
- 00:41:23and trying to you know hone in on
- 00:41:25women's territory uh
- 00:41:28and and that
- 00:41:30that unfortunate response to trans women
- 00:41:33got a big response in the 90s when trans
- 00:41:36people started speaking up for
- 00:41:38themselves
- 00:41:39so you see people like um
- 00:41:42well sandy stone uh writing a manifesto
- 00:41:47trans women
- 00:41:49um
- 00:41:50that's in the 90s and leslie feinberg
- 00:41:52writing a novel about a he she character
- 00:41:55and i see that trans writers are
- 00:41:57increasingly carving out a place for
- 00:42:00themselves um the auth and and they're
- 00:42:03doing so you mentioned
- 00:42:05genres that are innovative like the
- 00:42:07graphic novel they're doing so in
- 00:42:09innovative genres that like the graphic
- 00:42:11novel are trying to cross a divide
- 00:42:13between being sophisticated
- 00:42:15theoretically about thinking about
- 00:42:17draen's identity
- 00:42:18and culture at the same time
- 00:42:21reaching out to a popular broad audience
- 00:42:24that will enjoy the book
- 00:42:26or the work so for example the recent tv
- 00:42:29show pose was written by a woman who is
- 00:42:32a trans woman and who's written several
- 00:42:35memoirs about being trans and um
- 00:42:38and she's very interested in thinking
- 00:42:41theoretically about trans identity but
- 00:42:43she also wants to reach a broad audience
- 00:42:46and i think i think tv starting with
- 00:42:48transparent going to pose has played a
- 00:42:51very interesting role in that
- 00:42:53i'd like to say something too about the
- 00:42:55use of the graphic novel or the comic
- 00:42:57book genre which is what i thought you
- 00:42:59were addressing when you asked about
- 00:43:01bechtel i mean that is that is really
- 00:43:04interesting for women to be doing that
- 00:43:06that was comics as you know was such a
- 00:43:09macho genre i mean captain from captain
- 00:43:12marvel onward and superman and batman
- 00:43:15that comic book genre is so and even
- 00:43:17even you know
- 00:43:18sort of more high-level ones like
- 00:43:20ostrich or tanta in france which were
- 00:43:23more like our graphic novels you know
- 00:43:25more slightly less comic booky in our
- 00:43:28sense so it's really wonderful to see
- 00:43:30that these women began invading that
- 00:43:32genre and that bechtel made such a great
- 00:43:35use of of the genre and just taking it
- 00:43:38over for for a feminist and a lesbian
- 00:43:42to discuss her life in the world um i
- 00:43:45don't know whether anybody knows but
- 00:43:46patricia high smith who i do not think
- 00:43:49of as a feminist once worked as a comic
- 00:43:52book writer
- 00:43:53she wrote the uh she didn't she didn't
- 00:43:55do the um the pictures but she wrote the
- 00:43:58dialogue and it sounds like you know
- 00:44:00that peter and i think that it
- 00:44:02influenced her i mean if you you want to
- 00:44:04read patricia highsmith with a new sort
- 00:44:06of insight you might think that
- 00:44:08uh the
- 00:44:10mr ripley came out of not only the mind
- 00:44:13of a very strange woman but also from
- 00:44:16the comic book tradition
- 00:44:18thank
- 00:44:20you thank you very much for your answers
- 00:44:24sunder and susan and thank you very much
- 00:44:26to our guest questioners from the
- 00:44:28audience
- 00:44:29um we really appreciate that you joined
- 00:44:30us you are brave to come on with us and
- 00:44:33um we thank you for sharing those
- 00:44:36and now over to margaret and david thank
- 00:44:39you
- 00:44:40uh david and i have a few last questions
- 00:44:42that are percolating around here um
- 00:44:44david i can start with one or you could
- 00:44:47however
- 00:44:48sure i'll i have a question um
- 00:44:52it's so it's so much more common to see
- 00:44:56collaboration
- 00:44:58in academia or in books among in in
- 00:45:01science
- 00:45:03and less you know i can look back on the
- 00:45:05shelf that's behind me that i just
- 00:45:07pulled mad woman off the attic off of
- 00:45:09and i don't think i'll find a single
- 00:45:10book that's written by two people
- 00:45:13um except yours
- 00:45:15how how do you
- 00:45:17you you did it 40 years ago and you did
- 00:45:19it now how was working together in this
- 00:45:21type of academic project for the two of
- 00:45:23you
- 00:45:24well we often say that 40 years ago or
- 00:45:2745 years ago when we started the mad
- 00:45:29woman in the attic that we wouldn't have
- 00:45:31dared to do it without each other it was
- 00:45:33such an ambitious and such a kooky idea
- 00:45:35that there was a female literary
- 00:45:37tradition i mean what what what what
- 00:45:40what had we drunk what had we smoked um
- 00:45:43so i think it did take uh a certain kind
- 00:45:46of solidarity uh at that time i don't
- 00:45:49know if sanji will agree but that it was
- 00:45:51a great solace to know that we we were
- 00:45:53too and that we agreed and that we could
- 00:45:55help each other out in those days we
- 00:45:58would very often ride together in the
- 00:45:59same room with two pens and two
- 00:46:02notebooks
- 00:46:03or two laptops and that's not possible
- 00:46:05any longer
- 00:46:08but nonetheless it's very it's very
- 00:46:10useful it's very comforting and the
- 00:46:12other thing that i would say is that um
- 00:46:16i've thought a lot about that a
- 00:46:18collaboration and what collaboration
- 00:46:20means and i thought about other
- 00:46:21collaborations like for example on this
- 00:46:23collaboration with chester coleman so
- 00:46:25that is to men in the in humanities um
- 00:46:29and and odin himself made the point that
- 00:46:31what emerges out of such a partnership
- 00:46:33is a
- 00:46:34unique collaborative voice
- 00:46:37i think that was particularly true with
- 00:46:38the mad woman that we we would say
- 00:46:40things like well nobody this is the way
- 00:46:42we say it
- 00:46:44and and the we was this collab
- 00:46:46collaborative we who would say or argue
- 00:46:49something in a certain way when we did
- 00:46:51our own separate work
- 00:46:52we i'm i think sure we were both
- 00:46:54influenced but by what we had done
- 00:46:56together but but this collaborative
- 00:46:58voice that comes out of working together
- 00:47:01is is hard-won and it's also a kind of
- 00:47:05uh a protective shell in a way
- 00:47:09yeah
- 00:47:10yeah
- 00:47:11so it to be more
- 00:47:13prosaic about it and usually we'll
- 00:47:15divide authors for example
- 00:47:17but then
- 00:47:18after we've done drafted on different
- 00:47:21authors we work very closely together
- 00:47:23now it's usually on on the phone
- 00:47:26because we we live so far apart and we
- 00:47:28can't travel
- 00:47:30and we go over every single sentence
- 00:47:32together every single sentence the idea
- 00:47:34is that you should not be able to tell
- 00:47:36that there's a voice change
- 00:47:39from section to section or author to
- 00:47:41author
- 00:47:43and that we fully own all of the book
- 00:47:47right
- 00:47:50that's fast that leads to some
- 00:47:51quarreling that does lead to some
- 00:47:53quarreling oh that's true that's true
- 00:47:57uh uh and one topic that i think you
- 00:48:00both agree on um but and i have a
- 00:48:02question on that is um
- 00:48:04you know you're you discussed a sort of
- 00:48:07overarching evolution of feminism from
- 00:48:101950 to 2020 uh and i i'm
- 00:48:14interested as to why you see that still
- 00:48:17as a second wave
- 00:48:19um could it would would others say it's
- 00:48:22a third and a fourth wave what makes
- 00:48:24this one long second wave feminism
- 00:48:28others would say there is a a a third
- 00:48:30wave and others still would say there's
- 00:48:33a fourth wave
- 00:48:35we think about the long first wave from
- 00:48:38seneca falls
- 00:48:40all the way to the granting of the vote
- 00:48:43and we think
- 00:48:44it's got a certain kind of coherence as
- 00:48:46a first wave and the second wave it
- 00:48:48seems to us partly because of something
- 00:48:50we we touched on before
- 00:48:53is also got a coherence in part because
- 00:48:56the kinds of problems that
- 00:48:58lorraine hansberry and sylvia plath and
- 00:49:00adrian rich and
- 00:49:02the 50s writers were facing that is for
- 00:49:05example
- 00:49:06the contradiction between domesticity
- 00:49:09and ambition between childbearing and
- 00:49:11childbearing and poetic
- 00:49:15desire that these had not been solved a
- 00:49:18part of the second wave was very very
- 00:49:21convinced that women had to have control
- 00:49:24over their own bodies
- 00:49:27that issue has clearly not been solved
- 00:49:29and health care is still an enormous
- 00:49:31problem for many many women in america
- 00:49:34today so the issues still are obdurate
- 00:49:37as they're ongoing
- 00:49:41i mean a certain in a certain profound
- 00:49:43sense
- 00:49:44in terms of what women confront
- 00:49:47when they when they
- 00:49:48attempt to act on their ambitions
- 00:49:51very little has changed
- 00:49:53i can remember students coming into my
- 00:49:54office and saying you know we've come a
- 00:49:56long way professor
- 00:49:58and i would have to say well come back
- 00:50:00in 20 years when you have a child and
- 00:50:03are trying to struggle to find child
- 00:50:05care and
- 00:50:06and to put things together with your
- 00:50:08your career ambitions and your job at
- 00:50:10the law firm come back and tell me that
- 00:50:12again
- 00:50:13you know because it's still terribly
- 00:50:16difficult yeah yeah no we we've all been
- 00:50:19there and we we feel that and it is
- 00:50:21still the same you're absolutely right
- 00:50:23um and the last question here um
- 00:50:27the women's movement has been accused of
- 00:50:30being racist
- 00:50:31uh i do wonder what your thoughts are on
- 00:50:35women of color um
- 00:50:37and their experience of feminism uh were
- 00:50:40they not a vanguard in many ways um what
- 00:50:44are your thoughts on that topic yeah i
- 00:50:46think this was one of the most
- 00:50:48surprising things to ask because we have
- 00:50:50always heard um
- 00:50:52it's almost uh platitude that the second
- 00:50:54wave was driven by white middle-class
- 00:50:56women
- 00:50:57but what we found that
- 00:51:00we found is that the literary women who
- 00:51:02played such a prominent role in
- 00:51:04providing words and tactics to the
- 00:51:06second movement to the women the
- 00:51:08activists in the second in the second
- 00:51:09wave
- 00:51:10they were the black women women of color
- 00:51:13played an enormously innovative and
- 00:51:16early role and they were not middle
- 00:51:18class they were not white they were
- 00:51:20and they were working on their own
- 00:51:22ethnicity and their own racial issues in
- 00:51:24in tandem with their feminist issues so
- 00:51:27considerably lord i mean consider audrey
- 00:51:29lord as a sort of epitome of all that
- 00:51:32yeah absolutely becomes a great theorist
- 00:51:34of feminism even while she's also a poet
- 00:51:38and a lesbian and a black activist yeah
- 00:51:41yeah
- 00:51:42absolutely and also i would say lorraine
- 00:51:45hansberry who was talking about the
- 00:51:47misery of being a housewife way before
- 00:51:50betty friedan i would say nina simone
- 00:51:53who i don't think has ever been really
- 00:51:54put in this context
- 00:51:56before but some of her songs are
- 00:51:58revolutionary about the difficulties
- 00:52:01that black women have establishing an
- 00:52:03identity on their own from and by
- 00:52:06themselves rather than having to inhabit
- 00:52:08categories and names foisted on them
- 00:52:11her story her song some of her songs are
- 00:52:13revolutionary
- 00:52:15but don't forget about toni morrison who
- 00:52:18said she was so set out as a writer to
- 00:52:20write about the person that she thought
- 00:52:22was at the bottom of the totem pole a
- 00:52:24little black girl
- 00:52:26in the bluest eye i mean and and she
- 00:52:29really she really changed the world in a
- 00:52:31way by writing that book and then going
- 00:52:32on to right and you see with her how you
- 00:52:35know the black power movement in the
- 00:52:37civil rights movement
- 00:52:38they spawn let's say a slogan like black
- 00:52:41is beautiful and then morrison takes it
- 00:52:44up in the novel to say what does that
- 00:52:46mean to a black little girl who's who
- 00:52:48wants to have blue eyes because she
- 00:52:50thinks blue eyes are beautiful
- 00:52:54so you see the ways in which the the
- 00:52:55black power movement civil rights
- 00:52:57movement
- 00:52:58our worked by toni morrison through a
- 00:53:01feminist lens to understand a young
- 00:53:03girl's socialization into an extremely
- 00:53:05debilitating ideology
- 00:53:10but she also retrieved a great deal of
- 00:53:12black history in the black book and
- 00:53:14absolutely arson was you know she was
- 00:53:16retrieving black history even while she
- 00:53:18was giving voice to the voiceless
- 00:53:21yes absolutely
- 00:53:25so many people to thank for all the work
- 00:53:27that's been done to where we are right
- 00:53:29now and particularly you two tonight um
- 00:53:31that was really fascinating um i want to
- 00:53:34thank you both and also our brave and
- 00:53:36brilliant audience members i learned so
- 00:53:38much and the learning continues as we do
- 00:53:41for all our american inspiration author
- 00:53:43events and american stories inspiration
- 00:53:46today we are going to ask um these
- 00:53:48authors to share a reading or some
- 00:53:50reflection from the book so they are
- 00:53:53gratefully going to
- 00:53:55thankfully going to indulge us in that
- 00:53:57so um over to you i think sandra you're
- 00:54:00first is that right yes i'm just going
- 00:54:02to read two paragraphs from a section
- 00:54:04that begins glass ceilings and broken
- 00:54:07glass
- 00:54:08mantras of bygone days still ringing our
- 00:54:11ears we've come a long way professor
- 00:54:14we're shattering glass ceilings we can
- 00:54:16have it all we're leaning in and the
- 00:54:18culture's changing
- 00:54:20but is the culture really changing if it
- 00:54:22is why are we and so many of our friends
- 00:54:25still mad matt is in the sense of
- 00:54:27enraged matters in the sense of madden
- 00:54:31confused or rebellious
- 00:54:34maybe if you come a long way you
- 00:54:35encounter territorial backlash maybe if
- 00:54:38you shatter glass ceilings you have to
- 00:54:40walk on broken glass
- 00:54:42maybe if you lean in you topple over
- 00:54:46four decades have gone by since we
- 00:54:47opened our first co-authored book the
- 00:54:49mad woman in the attic but the question
- 00:54:52is a pen a metaphorical penis we were
- 00:54:54attempting to examine the century's long
- 00:54:56identification of authority with
- 00:54:58masculinity in order to excavate female
- 00:55:01literary traditions
- 00:55:03now we find ourselves mulling over a
- 00:55:05related question as we seek to
- 00:55:07understand the gender implications of
- 00:55:09american politics
- 00:55:11in this presumably more liberated moment
- 00:55:13when quite a few women have come forward
- 00:55:15as serious candidates for the presidency
- 00:55:18we nevertheless find ourselves asking
- 00:55:20must the president have a penis
- 00:55:24after the 2016
- 00:55:26election second wave feminism had
- 00:55:28evidently both triumphed and failed
- 00:55:32as the extraordinary women's march
- 00:55:34revealed many were angry at the failure
- 00:55:36but also puzzled by how it could have
- 00:55:38happened during a time of so many
- 00:55:40achievements
- 00:55:42we were baffled too
- 00:55:44the why of this book
- 00:55:46because we are still mad we seek to
- 00:55:48understand feminism's past and present
- 00:55:51in order to strengthen its future
- 00:55:54the 2016 election
- 00:55:57proves that women and men must learn
- 00:55:59over and over again what our generation
- 00:56:01started to learn and teach in the 60s
- 00:56:04its aftermath also confirms that
- 00:56:07feminists today have begun channeling
- 00:56:09the rebellious rage of the mad woman we
- 00:56:11studied
- 00:56:12a female figure incensed by patriarchal
- 00:56:15structures that have proven to be
- 00:56:18shockingly obdurate
- 00:56:22well thank you both very much uh in the
- 00:56:25land of family study i have been
- 00:56:27watching my colleagues at the
- 00:56:29genealogical society working very hard
- 00:56:31to make sure lives women's lives and
- 00:56:33backgrounds are not lost as we make our
- 00:56:36family trees and that women
- 00:56:38live in the past and live in the future
- 00:56:41it's so important so thank you for your
- 00:56:44amazing work shining light on women's
- 00:56:46lives and literature um david do you
- 00:56:48want to say something something more
- 00:56:50about the book
- 00:56:51um i'll i'll just say that it's it's
- 00:56:54such an it's such an honor to
- 00:56:56be able to talk with the two of you
- 00:56:58that you know who sat on my shelf for so
- 00:57:00long and i'm i'm in love with this new
- 00:57:02book i think it's a fantastic way to
- 00:57:07take what you wrote in the 70s and and
- 00:57:09and make it important
- 00:57:1140 something years later
- 00:57:13and everyone of course will want to own
- 00:57:15this book and
- 00:57:17portersquarebooks.com is where you will
- 00:57:19get it uh and if you want the signed one
- 00:57:22you'll put in that coupon code but i'm
- 00:57:24just honored to be a part of this and
- 00:57:26thank you both so very much
- 00:57:28thank you so much
- 00:57:30thank you so much
- 00:57:33thank you very much sandra and susan
- 00:57:35thank you margaret thank you david thank
- 00:57:37you to our producers at form network and
- 00:57:40thank you to our audience members
- 00:57:41especially the brave ones who came on
- 00:57:43here with us with the questions
- 00:57:45[Music]
- Feminism
- Literature
- Women Writers
- Gender Equality
- Cultural Change
- American History
- Second Wave Feminism
- Feminist Imagination
- Women's Roles
- Social Progress