Indigenous Over-Incarceration

00:23:28
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NeE4Wyhsho

Summary

TLDRVideoen diskuterer overrepræsentationen af indfødte mennesker i det canadiske fængselssystem. Howard Sapers, tidligere Correctional Investigator of Canada, og Pamela Palmater, en professor i Indigenous Governance, forklarer de historiske og systematiske faktorer, der fører til denne ulighed, såsom fortsatte effekter af kolonialisme og systemisk racisme. De diskuterer mangler i implementeringen af Gladue-principperne, som skulle give indfødte mennesker en mere retfærdig behandling i retssystemet, men som ofte ignoreres eller misforstås. Sapers og Palmater understreger nødvendigheden af reformer og foreslår løsninger som øget finansiering til alternative straffe og større kontrol til indfødte samfund over deres politi- og retssager.

Takeaways

  • 📈 Indfødte er overrepræsenteret i Canadas fængsler.
  • 🏛️ Gladue-principperne implementeres ikke korrekt.
  • 📜 Historiske koloniale politikker påvirker stadig indfødte.
  • ⚖️ Der er behov for retfærdige retssystemreformer.
  • 🌐 Systemisk racisme driver overincarceration.
  • 🚪 Der mangler finansiering til alternative straffe.
  • 👥 Samfundsdysfunktion påvirker fængselsrater.
  • 🔄 Parallelle retssystemer foreslået som løsning.
  • ✊ Indfødte forslag til selvstyre i retssager.
  • 🤝 Samarbejde mellem myndigheder kan fremme løsninger.

Timeline

  • 00:00:00 - 00:05:00

    Den uafhængige rådgiver fra Ontario om fængselsreform fremlagde rapporter om nødvendigheden af fundamentale ændringer i fængselssystemet med fokus på den overrepræsentation af indfødte folk i fængsler.

  • 00:05:00 - 00:10:00

    Howard Sapers og Pamela Palmater diskuterer dette emne. Statistikker viser, at indfødte er overrepræsenteret i fængselssystemet i Ontario. Diskussionen omhandler historiske og systemiske årsager som kolonialisme.

  • 00:10:00 - 00:15:00

    Sapers fremhæver, at oprindelsen til overrepræsentationen er dybt rodfæstet i colonialismens historiske kontekster, der har ført til systemisk diskrimination og racebestemte love, der påvirker nutiden.

  • 00:15:00 - 00:20:00

    Pamela Palmater bemærker, at den fortsatte diskrimination mod indfødte, især kvinder, har sine rødder i historiske love og praksisser, der målrettet fjernede og assimilerede indfødte samfund.

  • 00:20:00 - 00:25:00

    Diskussionen drejer sig mod den systematiske diskrimination inden for lovsystemet, især omkring anvendelsen af 'Gladue-principperne', som ikke anvendes korrekt i domsfældelser.

  • 00:25:00 - 00:30:00

    Sapers forklarer, at Gladue-principperne skulle overveje de særlige forhold for indfødte, men implementeringen har svigtet, hvilket faktisk kan forværre domme for indfødte individer.

  • 00:30:00 - 00:35:00

    Pamela Palmater argumenterer for, at problemet med Gladue er et spørgsmål om manglende ansvar og retfærdighed i implementeringen, og at racistiske systemer gør det sværere at ændre.

  • 00:35:00 - 00:40:00

    Sapers noterer, at selvom der er politisk vilje og rammer for forandring, er der en kompleks føderal og provinsiel jurisdiktion, der forhindrer effektive løsninger.

  • 00:40:00 - 00:45:00

    Pamela Palmater belyser, at den nuværende justitsminister ikke har formået at tage effektive skridt mod overincarceration på trods af politiske løfter og mandat.

  • 00:45:00 - 00:23:28

    Debatten afsluttes med forslag til alternative løsninger såsom bedre finansiering af alternativer til fængsling og mere kontrol til første nationer, men realiseringen afhænger af at ændre de eksisterende strukturer og hjertekultur.

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Mind Map

Mind Map

Frequently Asked Question

  • Hvad er Gladue-principperne?

    Gladue refererer til en dom fra Canadas højesteret, som kræver, at dommere overvejer særlige kulturelle og historiske faktorer for indfødte canadiske folk ved strafudmåling.

  • Hvorfor er der en overrepræsentation af indfødte i Canadas fængsler?

    Det skyldes blandt andet systemisk racisme, fortidens og nutidens koloniale politikker, og økonomiske og sociale uligheder som følge heraf.

  • Hvad er løsningerne på problemet med overrepræsentationen af indfødte i fængslerne?

    Mulige løsninger inkluderer bedre anvendelse og implementering af Gladue-principperne, øget finansiering til alternative straffe, og overdragelse af politi- og retssagskompetencer til indfødte samfund.

  • Hvordan kan Gladue-principperne implementeres bedre?

    Der kræves bedre uddannelse og støtte til dommere i at anvende Gladue-information korrekt, samt oprettelse af alternative straffesystemer for mindre alvorlige lovovertrædelser.

  • Hvad er status på implementeringen af Gladue i Canada?

    Implementeringen har været utilstrækkelig, da mange dommere og aktører i retssystemet ikke følger retningslinjerne korrekt, hvilket fører til en fortsat stigning i fængselsraterne for indfødte.

  • Hvordan påvirker kolonialismen stadig indfødte i Canada?

    Det påvirker gennem vedvarende økonomisk og social marginalisering, kulturelt tab og diskriminerende love og politikker.

  • Hvem er ansvarlig for overrepræsentationen af indfødte i fængsler?

    Ansvar deles mellem forskellige myndigheder såsom politiet, domstolene, og politikere, men der mangler generelt ansvarlighed og prioritering af problemet.

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  • 00:30:40
    >> Steve: LAST FALL, ONTARIO'S INDEPENDENT ADVISOR ON CORRECTIONS REFORM ISSUED THE
  • 00:30:43
    SECOND OF TWO DETAILED REPORTS RECOMMENDING FUNDAMENTAL CHANGE TO THE HOW PROVINCE RUNS ITS
  • 00:30:49
    PRISON SYSTEM.
  • 00:30:50
    ONE OF THE POINTS HE FLAGGED FOR ACTION WAS THE OVER-REPRESENTATION OF
  • 00:30:54
    INDIGENOUS PEOPLE IN CUSTODY.
  • 00:30:57
    HOWARD SAPERS ISSUED THOSE REPORTS.
  • 00:30:59
    PRIOR TO HIS ROLE ADVISING ONTARIO ON CORRECTIONS REFORM, HE WAS THE CORRECTIONAL
  • 00:31:03
    INVESTIGATOR OF CANADA.
  • 00:31:04
    ALSO WITH US TONIGHT TO CONSIDER THIS ISSUE: PAMELA PALMATER, CHAIR IN
  • 00:31:08
    INDIGENOUS GOVERNANCE AT RYERSON UNIVERSITY.
  • 00:31:12
    WE ARE DELIGHTED TO HAVE BOTH OF YOU BACK IN OUR STUDIO TONIGHT FOR WHAT IS OBVIOUSLY A TIMELY
  • 00:31:17
    AND IMPORTANT CONVERSATION.
  • 00:31:18
    YOU BOTH KNOW THESE NUMBERS ALL TOO WELL, BUT LET'S SHARE THEM WITH OUR AUDIENCE.
  • 00:31:23
    SHELDON, BRING THESE UP, IF YOU WOULD.
  • 00:31:24
    WHILE ONLY 3% OF CANADA'S POPULATION IS INDIGENOUS, FULLY 27.4% OF OUR PRISON POPULATION
  • 00:31:31
    IS INDIGENOUS.
  • 00:31:33
    AND LET'S SHOW SOME MORE NUMBERS NOW.
  • 00:31:35
    THIS IS IN THE PROVINCE OF ONTARIO WHERE 2% OF THE PROVINCE'S POPULATION IS
  • 00:31:40
    INDIGENOUS, BUT 13% OF ONTARIO'S PRISON POPULATION IS INDIGENOUS, AND 37.6% OF WOMEN IN FEDERAL
  • 00:31:48
    CUSTODY ARE INDIGENOUS.
  • 00:31:53
    THIS DISPROPORTIONATE OVERINCARCERATION FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE HAS BEEN HAPPENING FOR
  • 00:31:58
    DECADES.
  • 00:31:59
    START US OFF.
  • 00:31:59
    YOU'VE STUDIED THIS INTENSELY.
  • 00:32:01
    WHY IS IT HAPPENING?
  • 00:32:03
    >> Howard Sapers: WELL, THERE'S SO MANY REASONS.
  • 00:32:05
    THERE'S SO MANY REASONS.
  • 00:32:06
    WE CAN START WITH COLONIAL CONTACT.
  • 00:32:09
    WE CAN START WITH COLONIALISM.
  • 00:32:11
    THESE ARE LINGERING EFFECTS OF COLONIALISM.
  • 00:32:14
    THERE'S NO MISTAKE ABOUT THAT.
  • 00:32:15
    WE OFTEN TALK ABOUT SYSTEMIC DISCRIMINATION, BUT WHAT SYSTEMIC DISCRIMINATION OFTEN
  • 00:32:22
    STARTS WITH ARE POLICIES AND PROGRAMS AND LAWS THAT MAYBE WEREN'T INTENDED TO BE RACIST OR
  • 00:32:28
    BIASED, BUT END UP IN THEIR IMPLEMENTATION, AND SOMETIMES THEY'RE EVEN RACE-DRIVEN.
  • 00:32:34
    AND SO WHAT WE HAVE IS WE HAVE A POPULATION IN CANADA THAT HAS SUFFERED LOSS OF CULTURE, LOSS
  • 00:32:41
    OF LANGUAGE, DISPOSSESSION FROM LAND.
  • 00:32:45
    THEY'VE ACTUALLY -- THERE'S ACTUALLY BEEN RACE-BASED LEGISLATION.
  • 00:32:52
    AND IT'S NOT JUST CURRENT.
  • 00:32:55
    IT'S INTERGENERATIONAL.
  • 00:32:58
    SO YOU HAVE FAMILY TRAUMA, YOU HAVE FAMILY DYSFUNCTION, YOU HAVE COMMUNITY DYSFUNCTION, YOU
  • 00:33:03
    HAVE COMMUNITIES THAT ARE REELING FROM SUICIDE OR FROM ADDICTION OR FROM CHRONIC
  • 00:33:08
    UNEMPLOYMENT OR UNDEREMPLOYMENT AND HOUSING SHORTAGES AND THOSE COMMUNITIES DO NOT CREATE
  • 00:33:11
    HEALTHY INDIVIDUALS.
  • 00:33:12
    >> Steve: THAT MAY EXPLAIN -- PAMELA, LET ME GET YOU TO AMPLIFY ON IT ANYWAY.
  • 00:33:18
    SOME PEOPLE ARE GOING TO ASK, WHY WOULD SOMETHING THAT MAY HAVE HAPPENED 100 OR 200 YEARS
  • 00:33:23
    AGO HAVE AN IMPACT ON SOMEBODY TODAY?
  • 00:33:26
    >> Pamela Palmater: THE SHORT ANSWER TO THAT IS THAT IT'S STILL HAPPENING TODAY.
  • 00:33:30
    INDIAN POLICY, SINCE ITS CREATION, HAS ALWAYS BEEN ABOUT REMOVING INDIANS.
  • 00:33:35
    REMOVING INDIANS OUT OF THE WAY FOR DEVELOPMENT, RAIL ROADS, SETTLEMENTS, AND ALL THAT STUFF.
  • 00:33:39
    YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT FORCED STERILIZATION, SCALPING LAWS, THE MORE SEVERE KIND OF REMOVAL,
  • 00:33:44
    AND THEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT RESIDENTIAL SCHOOLS.
  • 00:33:47
    TAKING INDIANS, MOVING THEM OUT OF THE WAY AND TRYING TO ASSIMILATE THEM INTO THE BODY
  • 00:33:51
    POPULATION.
  • 00:33:52
    PRISONS HAVE BECOME ESSENTIALLY THE NEW RESIDENTIAL SCHOOLS.
  • 00:33:55
    THAT ARE PEOPLE THAT GO STRAIGHT FROM FOSTER CARE RIGHT INTO YOUTH CORRECTIONS, RIGHT INTO
  • 00:33:59
    PRISON.
  • 00:34:00
    IT'S A COMPLETE PIPELINE.
  • 00:34:01
    AND THEN THERE'S OTHER PEOPLE THAT ARE IMPRISONED FOR POLITICAL REASONS: PROTESTS,
  • 00:34:07
    DEFENDING LAND, DEFENDING WATER.
  • 00:34:09
    ALL OF THOSE THINGS.
  • 00:34:09
    IF ALL OF THOSE THINGS HAD STOPPED 200 YEARS AGO, WE'D BE WELL ON THE WAY TO HEALING.
  • 00:34:14
    >> Steve: BUT THEY HAVEN'T.
  • 00:34:16
    >> BUT THEY HAVEN'T STOPPED.
  • 00:34:17
    AND I WOULD SAY THAT IT IS VERY DIRECT.
  • 00:34:19
    IT IS VERY RACIST.
  • 00:34:20
    AND WE'VE HAD NUMEROUS COMMISSIONS AND INQUIRIES THAT LOOKED AT JUSTICE WITH REGARDS
  • 00:34:25
    TO INDIGENOUS PEOPLE AND THEY HAVE ALL CONCLUDED THAT THE ISSUE IS RACISM.
  • 00:34:29
    >> Steve: WHY IS THE FEMALE POPULATION GOING UP SO SIGNIFICANTLY IN PRISONS?
  • 00:34:34
    >> WELL, I THINK HISTORICALLY INDIGENOUS WOMEN HAVE ALWAYS BEEN TARGETED.
  • 00:34:38
    SO THEY WERE TARGETED FOR THE REMOVAL OF CHILDREN, SEXUALIZED VIOLENCE BY POLICE OFFICERS, THE
  • 00:34:43
    VERY FIRST NORTHWEST POLICE, AND ALSO FOR REMOVING OF CHILDREN, MURDERED AND MISSING INDIGENOUS
  • 00:34:50
    WOMEN.
  • 00:34:50
    YOU'VE GOT THIS SCENARIO WHERE INDIGENOUS WOMEN SUFFER TRIPLE DISADVANTAGE.
  • 00:34:58
    DISABILITIES, BEING A WOMAN, BEING INDIGENOUS.
  • 00:35:00
    ALL OF THOSE LAWS AND POLICIES INCLUDING THE INDIAN ACT WHICH STILL DISCRIMINATES AGAINST
  • 00:35:05
    THEM, HAVE NEVER BEEN ADDRESSED.
  • 00:35:07
    YOU SEE THIS BOOMING RATE OF INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND LITTLE GIRLS IN CORRECTIONS.
  • 00:35:10
    YOU SEE MURDERED AND MISSING INDIGENOUS WOMEN.
  • 00:35:14
    HIGHER RATES OF SUICIDE.
  • 00:35:15
    HIGHER MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES.
  • 00:35:17
    AND THAT'S ALL BECAUSE THIS IS ONGOING.
  • 00:35:20
    >> Steve: HOWARD, I'D LIKE YOU TO EXPLAIN A TERM THAT MANY PEOPLE WILL NOT KNOW, GLADUE,
  • 00:35:29
    G-L-A-D-U-E.
  • 00:35:30
    >> Howard Sapers: IT REFERS TO A DECISION OF THE SUPREME COURT OF CANADA AND IT'S NOW A COUPLE
  • 00:35:33
    DECADES SINCE THAT DECISION.
  • 00:35:34
    IN ESSENCE, THAT DECISION WAS ABOUT A YOUNG WOMAN WHO WAS CHARGED WITH A SERIOUS VIOLENT
  • 00:35:39
    CRIME, AND PREVIOUS TO HER CONVICTION, THE CRIMINAL CODE OF CANADA HAD BEEN AMENDED AND
  • 00:35:44
    JUDGES WERE INSTRUCTED TO TAKE CONSIDERATION OF A NUMBER OF FACTORS, INCLUDING FACTORS THAT
  • 00:35:50
    MIGHT BE PARTICULAR TO, IN THIS CASE, AN ABORIGINAL YOUNG WOMAN.
  • 00:35:58
    HER SENTENCE WAS APPEALED AND IT EVENTUALLY GOT TO THE SUPREME COURT, AND THE SUPREME COURT
  • 00:36:04
    ISSUED SOME SIGNIFICANT GUIDANCE ABOUT HOW YOU WOULD MAKE THAT CRIMINAL CODE AMENDMENT
  • 00:36:08
    OPERATIONAL, THE KINDS OF THINGS YOU SHOULD CONSIDER.
  • 00:36:13
    SO, IT WAS TO TAKE A NUMBER OF CHARACTERISTICS INTO ACCOUNT: THE LIFE HISTORY OF SOMEBODY
  • 00:36:20
    INTO ACCOUNT.
  • 00:36:21
    IT WASN'T A RACE-BASED DISCOUNT ON A CONVICTION, WHICH WAS AN OFFENSIVE WAY THAT SOME PEOPLE
  • 00:36:27
    TALKED ABOUT GLADUE.
  • 00:36:28
    IT WAS INSTRUCTION TO THE COURT ON HOW TO APPLY THE LAW.
  • 00:36:32
    AND SO WE NOW SEE THAT IF YOU'RE THE SURVIVOR OF RESIDENTIAL SCHOOL, IF YOU OR YOUR FAMILY
  • 00:36:38
    WERE INVOLVED IN THE '60s SCOOP, IF YOUR ECONOMIC PROSPECTS HAVE BEEN DIMINISHED
  • 00:36:46
    BECAUSE OF POLICIES THAT AFFECTED YOUR ABILITY TO BUY PROPERTY OR GAIN EMPLOYMENT,
  • 00:36:51
    ETC., ALL OF THESE DISADVANTAGES SHOULD BE CONSIDERED -- >> Steve: THEY'RE ALL
  • 00:36:58
    MITIGATING CIRCUMSTANCES.
  • 00:36:59
    >> WELL, TO MAKE YOUR SENTENCE REASONABLE, PROPORTIONATE, FAIR AND JUST.
  • 00:37:02
    >> Steve: IS THAT HAPPENING?
  • 00:37:03
    >> NO.
  • 00:37:04
    >> Steve: WHY IS IT NOT HAPPENING?
  • 00:37:05
    >> THERE'S BEEN LOTS OF PROBLEMS WITH THE IMPLEMENTATION OF GLADUE.
  • 00:37:09
    SO ONE IS, AS I SAY, THERE WAS A REACTION.
  • 00:37:11
    THEY SAID, WAIT A MINUTE, WE CAN'T GIVE PEOPLE A DISCOUNT ON THEIR CRIME JUST BECAUSE THEY
  • 00:37:15
    HAPPEN TO BE INDIGENOUS.
  • 00:37:16
    THE OTHER THING IS THAT THERE WAS LOTS OF TRAINING AND ATTENTION PAID TO PEOPLE TO
  • 00:37:21
    GATHER THE GLADUE KIND OF INFORMATION, TO GET THE PERSONAL HISTORY DETAIL.
  • 00:37:26
    THERE WASN'T LOTS OF TRAINING AND SUPPORT FOR HOW TO APPLY THAT INFORMATION.
  • 00:37:30
    SO ONE THING THAT'S HAPPENED, FOR EXAMPLE, IF I'M BEING ASSESSED FOR THOSE GLADUE
  • 00:37:36
    FACTORS AND IT TURNS OUT IN MY BACKGROUND IS FAMILY DYSFUNCTION, SOME FAMILY
  • 00:37:40
    VIOLENCE, I'VE SUFFERED SOME TRAUMA, I MAY HAVE SOME HISTORIES OF ADDICTION OR SOME
  • 00:37:44
    OTHER ISSUES, THOSE VERY SAME THINGS WHICH COULD BE TIED TO COLONIAL HISTORY, THOSE VERY
  • 00:37:51
    SAME THINGS, ONCE YOU GET INTO CORRECTIONS, DON'T BECOME MITIGATING, THEY BECOME
  • 00:37:56
    AGGRAVATING.
  • 00:37:57
    THOSE SAME THINGS WHICH ARE SUPPOSED TO BE PROTECTIVE IN TERMS OF A GLADUE ANALYSIS IN
  • 00:38:02
    FACT ELEVATE MY RISK AS FAR AS CORRECTIONS IS CONCERNED, THEY BECOME RISK FACTORS, WHICH MEANS
  • 00:38:06
    I'M GOING TO BE HELD AT HIGHER SECURITY, IT MEANS I'M GOING TO SPEND MORE TIME IN CUSTODY
  • 00:38:10
    BEFORE RELEASE.
  • 00:38:11
    IT DIMINISHES MY CHANCES, FRANKLY, OF HAVING ANY REHABILITATIVE EFFECT OF MY
  • 00:38:16
    SENTENCE, AND IT DIMINISHES MY CHANCES OF SUCCESS ONCE I AM RELEASED INTO THE COMMUNITY.
  • 00:38:21
    >> Steve: HOW DISTRESSED ARE YOU THAT THE GLADUE PRINCIPLES ARE NOT BEING PUT IN PLACE?
  • 00:38:29
    >> Pamela Palmater: IT'S SO FAR BEYOND THE LAW.
  • 00:38:31
    IT'S UNCONSTITUTIONAL.
  • 00:38:32
    IT VIOLATES THE CHARTER.
  • 00:38:34
    YOU HAVE A JUDGMENT FROM THE SUPREME COURT WHICH WAS CONFIRMED SAYING, LISTEN, YOU'VE
  • 00:38:38
    GOT TO FIND ALTERNATIVES TO PRISON FOR PEOPLE WITH THESE FACTORS, AND INSTEAD, DESPITE
  • 00:38:44
    BEING A CURE FOR DISCRIMINATION, THEY ACTUALLY USE IT TO FURTHER DISCRIMINATE AGAINST INDIGENOUS
  • 00:38:49
    PEOPLE, AND IT'S GETTING WORSE.
  • 00:38:51
    AND THAT'S THE PROBLEM.
  • 00:38:52
    SO SINCE GLADUE, PRISON RATES HAVE INCREASED, NOT DECREASED.
  • 00:38:57
    BUT HERE'S THE ISSUE: WHO IS ACCOUNTABLE TO THAT?
  • 00:39:00
    THE CHIEF OF POLICE ISN'T ACCOUNTABLE FOR THE OVER-POLICING AND RACISM AGAINST
  • 00:39:05
    INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.
  • 00:39:06
    THE CHIEF JUSTICES AREN'T ACCOUNTABLE.
  • 00:39:09
    WHAT'S THEIR PUNISHMENT IF THEY OVERINCARCERATE PEOPLE?
  • 00:39:12
    AND THE POLITICIANS, IT'S NOT EVEN ON THEIR PRIORITY LIST.
  • 00:39:16
    SO THIS CRISIS IS NOT BEING GIVEN ANY KIND OF PRIORITY AND NO ONE IS BEING HELD ACCOUNTABLE
  • 00:39:21
    FOR THE LIVES THAT ARE LITERALLY BEING DESTROYED.
  • 00:39:23
    >> Steve: IT'S OFTEN THE CASE THAT IF TEN PEOPLE ARE IN CHARGE, NOBODY'S IN CHARGE,
  • 00:39:28
    RIGHT?
  • 00:39:28
    SO IF A WHOLE BUNCH OF DIFFERENT PEOPLE -- JUDGES, POLITICIANS, POLICE OFFICERS, CONTINUE THE
  • 00:39:35
    LIST -- IF ALL OF THESE PEOPLE HAVE A HAND IN ENSURING THAT GLADUE HAPPENS, WHO'S ACTUALLY
  • 00:39:41
    RESPONSIBLE AT THE END OF THE DAY FOR MAKING SURE THAT IT DOES?
  • 00:39:45
    >> Howard Sapers: WHEN THE NEW FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WAS ELECTED, THE PRIME MINISTER ISSUED SOME
  • 00:39:49
    MANDATE LETTERS.
  • 00:39:50
    AND THE MANDATE LETTER TO THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE WAS REALLY CLEAR: ADDRESS OVERINCARCERATION
  • 00:39:56
    OF INDIGENOUS MEN AND WOMEN.
  • 00:39:58
    WE ALSO AT THE SAME TIME WERE DEALING WITH THE WAY FORWARD RECOMMENDATIONS FROM THE TRUTH
  • 00:40:03
    AND RECONCILIATION COMMISSION.
  • 00:40:05
    AND SO COMMITMENTS HAD BEEN MADE ABOUT NATION-TO-NATION RECONCILIATION.
  • 00:40:09
    SO IT IS ACTUALLY ON THE TABLE -- >> Steve: FOR THE MINISTER OF
  • 00:40:14
    JUSTICE.
  • 00:40:14
    >> AND IT IS A CURRENT POLITICAL DISCUSSION.
  • 00:40:20
    BUT, AGAIN, THERE'S SOME CHALLENGES.
  • 00:40:23
    THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT'S RESPONSIBLE FOR MAKING THE CRIMINAL LAW.
  • 00:40:26
    PROVINCIAL AND TERRITORIAL GOVERNMENTS ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR IMPLEMENTING --
  • 00:40:29
    >> Steve: THERE YOU GO.
  • 00:40:30
    SPLIT JURISDICTION.
  • 00:40:31
    >> RIGHT.
  • 00:40:32
    SO YOU HAVE FEDERAL AND PROVINCIAL JURISDICTIONS.
  • 00:40:34
    SO YOU'VE GOT ALL THE PROVINCES AND TERRITORIES DEALING WITH THIS IN A VERY DIFFERENT WAY.
  • 00:40:38
    >> Steve: PAMELA, I DO NEED TO ASK YOU, THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE IN CANADA TODAY IS AN INDIGENOUS
  • 00:40:43
    WOMAN.
  • 00:40:44
    AND I NEED TO ASK YOU WHETHER YOU THINK SHE IS DOING WHAT SHE NEEDS TO DO, BEING RESPONSIBLE
  • 00:40:49
    FOR THE THINGS SHE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR, TO IMPROVE THE SITUATION?
  • 00:40:54
    >> Pamela Palmater: SHE HASN'T.
  • 00:40:55
    ON ANY JUSTICE FRONT, BUT SPECIFICALLY WITH REGARD TO THE OVERINCARCERATION OF PEOPLE.
  • 00:40:58
    THERE'S BEEN TALK ABOUT IT.
  • 00:41:00
    THERE'S BEEN SOME SYMPATHY FROM HER ABOUT THE SITUATION.
  • 00:41:03
    BUT IN TERMS OF CONCRETE ACTION TO REDUCE THOSE NUMBERS OR PREVENT INCARCERATION TO BEGIN
  • 00:41:10
    WITH, NOTHING'S HAPPENING.
  • 00:41:11
    AND SADLY WHEN WE ADVOCATED AT THE UNITED NATIONS OR ANY INTERNATIONAL FORUM ON THESE
  • 00:41:18
    THINGS, HER REPRESENTATIVES SAY, IT'S COMPLICATED, THERE'S FEDERAL, PROVINCIAL, TERRITORIAL
  • 00:41:23
    GOVERNMENT, IT'S REALLY TOO HARD.
  • 00:41:24
    AND THAT IN ITSELF LOOKS AT THE PROBLEM.
  • 00:41:27
    FIRST NATIONS SHOULD BE IN CHARGE OF THEIR OWN POLICING, OWN JUSTICE, AND OWN CORRECTIONS
  • 00:41:31
    ISSUES, NOT THE FEDERAL AND PROVINCIAL GOVERNMENTS.
  • 00:41:34
    WHY WOULD WE CONTINUE TO ASK THE PEOPLE WHO ARE MOST RACIST AGAINST US TO FIND THE
  • 00:41:39
    SOLUTIONS, WHEN THE SOLUTIONS THEMSELVES ARE USED AGAINST US AND MAKE THE SITUATION WORSE?
  • 00:41:42
    >> Steve: HAVE YOU MET WITH THE JUSTICE MINISTER?
  • 00:41:47
    >> JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD?
  • 00:41:50
    NOT SINCE SHE'S BECOME MINISTER.
  • 00:41:52
    SHE MAKES IT MORE DIFFICULT.
  • 00:41:54
    IT'S EASY TO PICK ON SOMEONE LIKE STEPHEN HARPER WHO SAYS THE WORST THINGS AND HIS GOVERNMENT
  • 00:41:59
    WAS VERY OUTRAGEOUS IN TERMS OF FIRST NATIONS.
  • 00:42:02
    THE PUBLIC GOES, WOW, THAT'S CRAZY.
  • 00:42:05
    NOW THIS GOVERNMENT CAN TROT OUT AN INDIGENOUS WOMAN AND SAY, OH, LOOK AT WHAT WE'RE DOING.
  • 00:42:09
    WE'RE TALKING ABOUT OVERINCARCERATION, AND NOT DO ANYTHING.
  • 00:42:13
    SO WHAT DOES THAT SAY TO THE PUBLIC?
  • 00:42:15
    THE PUBLIC'S LIKE, WELL, IF SHE'S NOT CONCERNED, MAYBE WE SHOULDN'T BE CONCERNED.
  • 00:42:19
    SO IT MAKES OUR ADVOCACY ROLE MUCH HARDER AND IT'S ALREADY HARD TO GET ATTENTION FOR PEOPLE
  • 00:42:24
    IN PRISON.
  • 00:42:25
    >> Steve: I KNOW YOU'RE NOT A POLITICIAN AND I KNOW YOU LOVE TO STAY AWAY FROM PARTISAN
  • 00:42:30
    POLITICS, BUT ...
  • 00:42:31
    I MEAN, PAMELA HAS RAISED A CURIOUS ISSUE HERE.
  • 00:42:34
    IS THERE A WAY OUT OF THIS SOMEHOW?
  • 00:42:37
    >> Howard Sapers: I THINK THERE ARE SEVERAL WAYS OUT OF THIS.
  • 00:42:39
    I WAS GOING TO SAY SEVERAL WAYS FORWARD, BECAUSE OF COURSE I'M THINKING ABOUT THE TRUTH AND
  • 00:42:44
    RECONCILIATION COMMISSION.
  • 00:42:45
    JUSTICE MURRAY SINCLAIR DID A WONDERFUL JOB OF GIVING US A FRAMEWORK THAT WE CAN RELY ON,
  • 00:42:52
    WE CAN LOOK AT.
  • 00:42:54
    I HAVE SEEN SOME MOVEMENT FORWARD.
  • 00:42:56
    I HAVE SEEN INITIATIVES IN THE WORK I'M DOING IN ONTARIO, FOR EXAMPLE.
  • 00:43:02
    IN THE ONTARIO GOVERNMENT'S COMMITMENT IN TERMS OF RESPONDING TO THE TRUTH AND
  • 00:43:06
    RECONCILIATION COMMISSION.
  • 00:43:07
    I HAVE SEEN SOME MOVEMENT FORWARD EVEN IN THE CORRECTIONAL SERVICE OF CANADA.
  • 00:43:12
    THERE ARE LITTLE GLIMMERS OF HOPE.
  • 00:43:13
    SOME SECTIONS THAT WERE SPECIFIC TO INDIGENOUS MEN AND WOMEN IN THE FEDERAL LAW THAT GOVERNS
  • 00:43:19
    CORRECTIONS, WE'RE SEEING A SLIGHT INCREASE IN THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT ARE BEING RELEASED
  • 00:43:24
    UNDER WHAT'S CALLED SECTION 84, WHICH IS ABOUT BEING RELEASED TO AN INDIGENOUS COMMUNITY.
  • 00:43:29
    WE'RE SEEING RENEWED DISCUSSIONS ABOUT CREATING MORE HEALING LODGE SPACE.
  • 00:43:33
    >> Steve: THAT'S ENCOURAGING.
  • 00:43:35
    A LITTLE BIT.
  • 00:43:35
    >> YEAH, THERE'S THESE GLIMMERS THAT MAKE ME HOPEFUL.
  • 00:43:39
    >> Steve: LET ME TRY ONE THING WITH YOU, PAMELA.
  • 00:43:41
    YOU JUST SAID A SECOND AGO IT MAKES NO SENSE TO HAVE, IN YOUR VIEW, THE MOST RACIST
  • 00:43:46
    INSTITUTIONS IN OUR SOCIETY IN CHARGE OF ALL OF THIS.
  • 00:43:49
    >> Pamela Palmater: MM-HMM.
  • 00:43:50
    >> Steve: I UNDERSTAND HOW, IF AN INDIGENOUS PERSON IS ALLEGED TO HAVE COMMITTED A CRIME TEN
  • 00:43:54
    HOURS FROM THIS STUDIO IN UNCEDED TERRITORY IN A MUCH MORE REMOTELY -- REMOTE PART OF
  • 00:44:01
    ONTARIO, I GET THAT.
  • 00:44:05
    THERE'S NO ANALOGOUS INDIGENOUS POLICE FORCE IN DOWNTOWN OTTAWA OR DOWNTOWN TORONTO.
  • 00:44:10
    SO IF AN INDIGENOUS PERSON COMMITS A CRIME IN EITHER OF THOSE TWO PLACES, TO WHOM ARE
  • 00:44:15
    THEY SUPPOSED TO BE TURNED OVER, IF NOT THE CURRENT RACIST SYSTEM YOU ABHOR?
  • 00:44:20
    >> EXACTLY.
  • 00:44:21
    THE PROBLEM IS THOSE SYSTEMS AREN'T IN PLACE, THEY HAVEN'T BEEN ALLOWED TO BE IN PLACE.
  • 00:44:26
    YOU DO SEE TRIBAL POLICE FORCES ON SOME FIRST NATIONS, YOU SEE TRIBAL COURTS IN THE UNITED
  • 00:44:32
    STATES AND CANADA THAT OPERATE WITH PHENOMENAL SUCCESS.
  • 00:44:34
    WHY THAT HASN'T BEEN REPLICATED ACROSS THE COUNTRY IS A QUESTION FOR BOTH THE JUSTICE MINISTER
  • 00:44:39
    AND THE PRIME MINISTER -- >> Steve: COULD THAT BE DONE IN BIG CITIES?
  • 00:44:43
    >> IT COULD BE DONE.
  • 00:44:44
    OF COURSE IT COULD BE DONE.
  • 00:44:45
    YOU COULDN'T GET MUCH WORSE THAN THE CURRENT TORONTO POLICE FORCE.
  • 00:44:48
    YOU'VE GOT LOTS OF ISSUES AROUND DEATHS IN POLICE CUSTODY FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, THINGS LIKE
  • 00:44:53
    STARLIGHT TOURS, SEXUALIZED VIOLENCE THAT'S HAPPENING ALL ACROSS THE COUNTRY, AND THAT'S
  • 00:44:57
    NOT BEING ADDRESSED, BOTH IN TERMS OF POLICING AND IN CORRECTIONING, ONCE YOU'RE IN
  • 00:45:01
    THE INSTITUTION.
  • 00:45:02
    >> Steve: LET ME DO ONE MORE THING WITH HOWARD THEN ON THIS.
  • 00:45:06
    CAN YOU IMAGINE RECOMMENDING TO THE GOVERNMENT OF ONTARIO THAT IT CREATE A PARALLEL POLICE
  • 00:45:11
    SERVICE, RUN, STAFFED, ORGANIZED BY INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, SPECIFICALLY TO TREAT ALLEGED
  • 00:45:19
    CRIMES PERPETRATED BY INDIGENOUS PEOPLE?
  • 00:45:23
    >> Howard Sapers: STEVE, I THINK THE ANSWER IS, YES, AMONGST MANY OTHER THINGS.
  • 00:45:32
    WHETHER WE WOULD NEED A METRO TORONTO INDIGENOUS POLICE DEPARTMENT OR NOT, I DON'T KNOW.
  • 00:45:37
    BECAUSE THERE'S ALSO BEEN SOME TREMENDOUS FAILURES IN TERMS OF CREATING PARALLEL SYSTEMS.
  • 00:45:46
    BUT WE CAN INNOVATE.
  • 00:45:47
    WE CAN INNOVATE AROUND THINGS LIKE BETTER APPLICATION OF GLADUE WITHIN THE EXISTING
  • 00:45:53
    STRUCTURE.
  • 00:45:54
    WE CAN INNOVATE AROUND CREATING INDIGENOUS PROGRAM AND POLICY DIVISIONS, DEPARTMENTS, CULTURAL
  • 00:45:59
    AWARENESS TRAINING.
  • 00:46:01
    WE CAN HAVE A BETTER LEGAL AND ACCOUNTABILITY FRAMEWORK TO MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE ARE ACTUALLY
  • 00:46:04
    DOING WHAT THEY'VE SAID IN THEIR MISSION AND MANDATE STATEMENTS.
  • 00:46:09
    SO THERE'S LOTS THAT WE CAN DO -- >> Steve: SHORT OF WHAT I
  • 00:46:14
    JUST -- >> SHORT OF THAT.
  • 00:46:15
    BUT I WOULD SAY, LET'S LOOK AT -- LET'S LOOK AT ALL THE OPTIONS, BECAUSE THE STATUS QUO
  • 00:46:21
    IS NOT ACCEPTABLE.
  • 00:46:22
    SO LET'S BE INNOVATIVE, LET'S BE CREATIVE, AND LET'S NOT BE DEFENSIVE.
  • 00:46:26
    >> Steve: HERE IS, YOU ALL REMEMBER MICHAEL BRIAN, HE USED TO BE THE ATTORNEY GENERAL OF
  • 00:46:28
    ONTARIO.
  • 00:46:30
    HE RECENTLY WAS DECLARED THE
  • 00:46:33
    HEAD OF THE CANADIAN CIVIL LIBERTIES ASSOCIATION, AND HERE'S WHAT HE HAD TO WRITE IN
  • 00:46:36
    THE TORONTO STAR AS TO WHAT WE'RE DISCUSSING TONIGHT.
  • 00:47:33
    >> Steve: THAT'S AN ALTERNATIVE IDEA.
  • 00:47:36
    COULD THAT WORK, PAM?
  • 00:47:40
    >> Pamela Palmater: I MEAN, WE DON'T KNOW -- WE HAVEN'T TRIED IT.
  • 00:47:43
    BUT I'VE ALWAYS BEEN A PROPONENT, NOT OF MANDATORY MINIMUM SENTENCES WHICH MAKES
  • 00:47:47
    THE SITUATION WORSE, BUT MANDATORY ALTERNATIVES.
  • 00:47:52
    WHY COULDN'T THERE BE FOR A CATEGORY OF OFFENCES AT A MINIMUM MANDATORY ALTERNATIVES
  • 00:47:57
    TO MAKE IT COMPLETELY ILLEGAL FOR YOU TO IMPRISON SOMEONE FOR STEALING FOOD FROM A GROCERY
  • 00:48:04
    STORE OR DRIVING A STOLEN CAR TO TAKE A CHILD TO A MEDICAL TREATMENT.
  • 00:48:09
    THERE ARE SO MANY CONDITIONS ON WHICH THERE SHOULD BE LEGALLY MANDATORY ALTERNATIVES AND I
  • 00:48:13
    THINK SOME VARIATION OF THAT IS A POSSIBILITY.
  • 00:48:15
    >> Steve: HOWARD?
  • 00:48:16
    >> Howard Sapers: WELL, SURE -- THE IRONIC THING IS THAT AS YOU WERE READING THAT, I'M
  • 00:48:21
    THINKING THAT THE CRIMINAL CODE ALREADY SAYS THAT INCARCERATION IS SUPPOSED TO BE THE LAST
  • 00:48:25
    RESORT.
  • 00:48:25
    FOR YOU, FOR ME, FOR AN INDIGENOUS MAN OR WOMAN.
  • 00:48:29
    FOR ANYBODY.
  • 00:48:30
    INCARCERATION IS SUPPOSED TO BE THE LAST RESORT.
  • 00:48:32
    AND IN FACT THE SENTENCING PROVISIONS THAT WERE CHALLENGED IN GLADUE ARE KIND OF LIKE THE
  • 00:48:38
    PROVISIONS THAT MICHAEL BRYANT IS TALKING ABOUT.
  • 00:48:40
    SO WE ALREADY HAVE A LEGAL FRAMEWORK THAT WOULD ALLOW US TO DO EXACTLY THAT.
  • 00:48:45
    WHETHER IT WOULD BE ENHANCED WITH A CRIMINAL CODE AMENDMENT OR NOT, I CAN'T SAY.
  • 00:48:48
    I CAN TELL YOU THAT IT DIDN'T WORK SIMPLY BY AMENDING THE CODE, DIDN'T WORK.
  • 00:48:53
    SIMPLY BY ISSUING A SUPREME COURT JUDGMENT DIDN'T WORK.
  • 00:48:57
    SO IT'S SOMETHING DEEPER IN THE SYSTEM THAT WE HAVE TO DO.
  • 00:49:01
    >> Steve: CHANGING HEARTS AND MINDS AND CULTURE AND ALL OF THAT.
  • 00:49:06
    >> CHANGING HEARTS AND MINDS AND CULTURE AND ALL OF THAT.
  • 00:49:08
    THAT SHOULD PROBABLY BE THE TITLE OF THIS SHOW.
  • 00:49:14
    I'VE JUST GIVEN A COUPLE OF REPORTS, AS YOU MENTIONED, WITH LOTS OF DISCUSSION ABOUT
  • 00:49:18
    CHANGING POLICY AND CREATING NEW LAW.
  • 00:49:20
    THAT'S IMPORTANT.
  • 00:49:21
    THAT'S FOUNDATIONAL STUFF.
  • 00:49:22
    BUT UNLESS YOU CHANGE ATTITUDES, UNLESS YOU GIVE THE SYSTEM BACK THE DISCRETION IT'S SUPPOSED TO
  • 00:49:27
    HAVE, AS PAM WAS TALKING ABOUT, ELIMINATING MANDATORY MINIMUMS, GIVING COURTS THE KIND OF
  • 00:49:32
    DISCRETION THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO HAVE SO JUSTICE CAN TRULY BE INDIVIDUALIZED, PROPORTIONATE
  • 00:49:38
    AND RATIONAL, ALL THE CRIMINAL CODE AMENDMENTS IN THE WORLD AREN'T GOING TO CHANGE THINGS.
  • 00:49:41
    >> Steve: IN OUR REMAINING MOMENTS HERE, LET'S DO WHAT YOU HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO DO YET.
  • 00:49:46
    I'M GOING TO PUT YOU IN THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE'S OFFICE FOR THAT ONE-ON-ONE MEETING AND
  • 00:49:50
    YOU'RE GOING TO SAY TO HER: MINISTER, HERE IS THE FIRST THING YOU HAVE TO DO TO MAKE AN
  • 00:49:55
    IMPROVEMENT ON THIS DISPROPORTIONATE SITUATION WHERE INDIGENOUS PEOPLE ARE
  • 00:49:59
    DRAMATICALLY OVERREPRESENTED IN OUR PRISON.
  • 00:50:01
    WHAT ARE YOU TELLING HERE?
  • 00:50:02
    >> Pamela Palmater: YOU HAVE TO DRAMATICALLY FUND THE ALTERNATIVES.
  • 00:50:05
    THE NUMBER ONE REASON WHY JUDGES SAY I HAVE TO PUT THIS PERSON IN PRISON IS BECAUSE THERE IS NO
  • 00:50:10
    MONEY AT THE ABORIGINAL COMMUNITY OR ANYWHERE ELSE TO HAVE THE ALTERNATIVES, THERE'S
  • 00:50:14
    NO SUPPORT, NO MECHANISMS.
  • 00:50:16
    THEY NEED TO CLEAN HOUSE IN TERMS OF POLICING AND CORRECTIONS, AND I MEAN CLEAN
  • 00:50:20
    HOUSE.
  • 00:50:20
    ANYONE WHO HAS BEEN ACCUSED OF SEXUAL VIOLENCE, RACISM AND ALL OF THAT STUFF, THAT TOTALLY
  • 00:50:26
    NEEDS TO BE DONE.
  • 00:50:27
    AND THEY NEED TO PUT THESE ISSUES IN THE HANDS OF FIRST NATIONS WHERE THEY CAN AND WHERE
  • 00:50:31
    THERE ARE FIRST NATIONS THAT ARE WILLING.
  • 00:50:33
    IF THEY DID THOSE THREE THINGS, THERE WOULD BE A MARKABLE DIFFERENCE IN ADDITION TO DOING
  • 00:50:39
    A GENDER BASED ANALYSIS OF THE CURRENT SYSTEM THAT'S BROKEN.
  • 00:50:42
    >> Steve: HOWARD, I'M GOING TO MAKE SORT OF THE SAME DEAL WITH YOU.
  • 00:50:45
    WHEN YOU WRITE YOUR TWO REPORTS, YOU OBVIOUSLY GIVE THEM TO THE MINISTER RESPONSIBLE.
  • 00:50:49
    DID YOU GO IN AND GIVE A BRIEFING TO CABINET OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT?
  • 00:50:53
    >> Howard Sapers: I TALK TO WHOEVER WHO WILL LISTEN.
  • 00:50:55
    THE NICE THING ABOUT THE JOB I'M DOING RIGHT NOW IS I'VE REALLY BEEN INVITED INTO THOSE
  • 00:51:00
    DISCUSSIONS.
  • 00:51:01
    I'M ACTUALLY VERY HOPEFUL.
  • 00:51:03
    AND I WOULD SUPPORT WHAT PAM JUST SAID ABOUT THOSE THREE THINGS, BUT I WOULD ACTUALLY
  • 00:51:08
    GATHER MY CABINET COLLEAGUES TOGETHER, AND I WOULD GET THE MINISTERS RESPONSIBLE FOR
  • 00:51:14
    HOUSING AND HEALTH AND EDUCATION AND SOCIAL SERVICES AND EMPLOYMENT DEVELOPMENT AND
  • 00:51:18
    ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, I'D SAY, HEY, GUYS, I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO SEE MYSELF OUT OF A JOB AS
  • 00:51:23
    THE MINISTER RESPONSIBLE FOR CORRECTIONS.
  • 00:51:25
    SO WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO TO STEM THE FLOW?
  • 00:51:30
    ONCE SOMEBODY'S DEEPLY ENMESHED IN A SYSTEM, THAT THEY HAVE A CRIMINAL CONVICTION AND THEY'RE
  • 00:51:35
    IN A JAIL OR PRISON IN THIS COUNTRY, IT'S TOO LATE.
  • 00:51:38
    THE SINGLE BIGGEST PREDICTOR THAT YOU'LL BE IN JAIL IS THAT YOU HAD A PREVIOUS EXPERIENCE IN
  • 00:51:43
    JAIL.
  • 00:51:43
    SO LET'S STEM THE FLOW.
  • 00:51:44
    AND REALLY, WHAT WE KNOW WORKS IS WE KNOW THAT THE KIND OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT
  • 00:51:52
    INITIATIVES -- >> Steve: JUST EXPLAIN WHAT THAT MEANS.
  • 00:51:54
    IF YOU'RE IN THIS FICTITIOUS MEETING, YOU'RE GOING TO THE MINISTER OF HEALTH AND SAYING
  • 00:51:59
    THIS IS HOW YOU, MINISTER OF HEALTH, CAN PREVENT A DISPROPORTIONATE NUMBERS OF
  • 00:52:03
    INDIGENOUS PEOPLE ENDING UP IN OUR JAILS?
  • 00:52:06
    >> TREAT IT LIKE A
  • 00:52:10
    EARLY INTERVENTION FOR YOUNG CHILDREN, PARTICULARLY THOSE WHERE THEIR FAMILIES ARE AT RISK
  • 00:52:14
    BECAUSE OF THEIR ECONOMIC STATUS OR BECAUSE OF INTERGENERATIONAL TRAUMA WITHIN THAT FAMILY.
  • 00:52:22
    WE'VE ALREADY IDENTIFIED THOSE FAMILIES.
  • 00:52:23
    BUT WHAT WE'RE DOING NOW IS, AGAIN, WE'RE SPLITTING THEM UP.
  • 00:52:26
    THE CHILDREN GO INTO CHILDREN'S AID AND THE PARENTS END UP GOING TO JAIL.
  • 00:52:29
    >> Steve: PAMELA, LET ME GIVE YOU THE LAST WORD ON THIS LAST QUESTION.
  • 00:52:33
    HOW UNITED IN YOUR VIEW IS THE INDIGENOUS WORLD IN THIS COUNTRY ON THE ISSUES WE'VE BEEN TALKING
  • 00:52:38
    ABOUT HERE?
  • 00:52:40
    >> Pamela Palmater: OVERINCARCERATION?
  • 00:52:41
    LIKE I SAID, IN EVERY VENUE, OVERINCARCERATION GETS ALMOST THE LOWEST PRIORITY BECAUSE
  • 00:52:46
    WE'RE TRYING TO DEAL WITH OTHER CRISIS ISSUES LIKE KIDS IN CARE AND HOUSING AND WATER AND ALL OF
  • 00:52:50
    THESE THINGS, LACK OF EDUCATION, LACK OF ACCESS TO LAND AND TREATY RIGHTS WHICH ARE ALL ROOT
  • 00:52:56
    CAUSES FOR WHAT HAPPENS IN THE VERY END, OVERINCARCERATION.
  • 00:52:59
    BUT I THINK AMONGST THE PEOPLE WHO WORK IN THIS AREA, THERE'S A LARGE DEGREE OF CONSENSUS
  • 00:53:04
    AROUND, THIS ISN'T WORKING.
  • 00:53:05
    WE NEED TO TAKE CONTROL, OR AT LEAST SOME ASPECT OF CONTROL, AND WE NEED TO ADDRESS, LIKE
  • 00:53:10
    WHAT HOWARD WAS SAYING, ROOT CAUSES.
  • 00:53:12
    TWO THIRDS OF PEOPLE IN PRISON -- TWO THIRDS -- HAD SOME FORM OF CONTACT WITH FOSTER
  • 00:53:16
    CARE, CHILD AND FAMILY SERVICES.
  • 00:53:17
    WE ARE LITERALLY CREATING A PIPELINE TO PRISON.
  • 00:53:19
    PEOPLE LIKE CINDY BLACKSTOCK HAVE SUED THE GOVERNMENT, THE GOVERNMENT REFUSES TO
  • 00:53:24
    ADDRESS THAT ISSUE, SO IT'S GUARANTEEING NO MATTER WHAT JUSTICE DOES WITH
  • 00:53:28
    ITS INTERNAL INITIATIVES THAT THAT PIPELINE WILL CONTINUE.
  • 00:53:31
    WE NEED TO ADDRESS ALL OF THOSE FEEDER GROUPS THAT GO TO PRISON.
  • 00:53:36
    >> Steve: I WANT TO THANK BOTH OF YOU FOR COMING ONTO TVO TONIGHT AND SHINING A LIGHT ON
  • 00:53:39
    THIS MOST URGENT PROBLEM.
  • 00:53:49
    HOWARD SAPERS, THE INDEPENDENT ADVISER ON CORRECTIONS REFORM TO THE GOVERNMENT OF ONTARIO
  • 00:53:51
    PAMELA PALMATER, FROM RYERSON UNIVERSITY HERE IN TORONTO.
  • 00:53:52
    THANKS SO MUCH.
  • 00:53:52
    BOTH: THANK YOU.
Tags
  • Indigenous Peoples
  • Canada
  • Prison System
  • Colonialism
  • Gladue Principles
  • Justice Reform
  • Systemic Racism
  • Overincarceration