The Trump Presidency's Foreign Policy: Implications for the Middle East and Shifting Global Dynamics
Summary
TLDRThe panel explored the potential implications of the recent US elections, with a particular focus on what a Trump-led foreign policy might look like, particularly in the Middle East. The discussion covered the potential for continuity in US foreign policy toward the Middle East, especially regarding Israel and Iran, and considered the strategies of other global powers like China and Russia in the region. There was a consensus that while Trump may maintain pressure on Iran and push for stronger ties with Israel, his policies may also signal shifts in traditional diplomatic and strategic alignments. The potential for continued US withdrawal from the Middle East and its impacts on regional power dynamics was also examined. Overall, the panel highlighted how global and domestic politics could influence Trump's foreign policy decisions.
Takeaways
- 🌍 Discussion on implications of US elections on global politics.
- 💼 Exploration of Trump's potential foreign policy impacts.
- 🇮🇱 Focus on US-Israel relations under a Trump administration.
- 🇮🇷 Anticipation of return to maximum pressure on Iran.
- 🤝 Russia and China's growing influence in the Middle East.
- 💵 Economic opportunities and strategic shifts in the region.
- 🛡️ Potential changes in US military presence and security dynamics.
- 📈 Diverging strategies of global powers in economic and tech areas.
- ♟️ Examination of strategic alignments among Middle Eastern actors.
- 🔍 Insight into regional reactions to a Trump presidency.
- 🗳️ Analysis of domestic impacts on foreign policy decisions.
- 🔐 Discussions on security and alliance priorities.
Timeline
- 00:00:00 - 00:05:00
The panel discusses potential shifts in US foreign policy following a Republican election sweep and Trump's disdain for multilateralism. There's a focus on the Middle East, US relations with Russia and China, and regional alignments.
- 00:05:00 - 00:10:00
Matt discusses continuity in US foreign policy from Biden to Trump, including relationships with Saudi Arabia, the Iran nuclear deal, and the Abraham Accords. US focus on China as a major rival is also highlighted.
- 00:10:00 - 00:15:00
Nicole explores Russia's disappointment with the initial Trump Administration and its strategic recalibration towards Iran due to the Ukraine conflict, despite speculation about changes in relations.
- 00:15:00 - 00:20:00
There's a discussion about the potential constraints the Republican Congress might impose on Trump regarding Russia, and how sanctions and competition with China might play into this dynamic.
- 00:20:00 - 00:25:00
Tong discusses China's interests in the Middle East, highlighting economic ties and mediating roles. The US's retreat is viewed as an opportunity for China, amidst the competition with the US.
- 00:25:00 - 00:30:00
China's desire to expand influence in the Middle East's economic and political arenas is discussed. China's strategic rivalry with the US and Russia's traditional security role create a complex dynamic.
- 00:30:00 - 00:35:00
The Middle East's expectation of more Israeli annexation and the Trump Administration's likely lack of humanitarian concern is discussed. Challenges facing a ceasefire in Lebanon and Gaza include bilateral demands and developments.
- 00:35:00 - 00:40:00
Panelists express concern over potential US reversion to 'maximum pressure' on Iran under Trump and its ineffective history. Potential conflicts involving the US and regional security dynamics are assessed.
- 00:40:00 - 00:45:00
Discussions highlight how US-Iran tensions under a renewed Trump Administration might affect regional proxies and security alliances. The GCC's role amidst US-Iran tensions is considered linked to wider geopolitical strategies.
- 00:45:00 - 00:50:00
With China's deepening ties to Iran, Tong highlights how a confrontational US stance could impact China-Iran relations, particularly against the backdrop of maximum pressure policies from the US.
- 00:50:00 - 00:59:34
Nicole explains how Russia's relationship with Iran might influence its role in the region amidst US-Iran tensions, emphasizing how war and alliances could affect strategic decisions in the Middle East.
Mind Map
Video Q&A
What potential shifts in US foreign policy were discussed?
The panel discussed potential continuities and changes in US foreign policy under Trump, focusing on a possible return to maximum pressure on Iran, changes in relations with Russia and China, and implications for the Middle East.
How might Trump’s administration approach the Middle East differently?
Trump’s administration may focus on furthering the Abraham Accords, supporting Israeli actions, and maintaining pressure on Iran while seeking economic opportunities.
What are the expected impacts of a Trump administration on US-China relations?
It is expected that Trump's administration might pursue a more aggressive stance toward China, reinforcing economic and military influence in the Middle East to counteract China's growing presence.
How does the panel perceive Russia's role in the Middle East?
Russia's role is seen as increasingly important, especially in the context of the Middle East's strategic shifts and Russia's military and political alliances in the region.
What might be the impact on Iran if Trump returns to power?
A return to maximum pressure is expected, affecting Iran economically and politically, while Iran might continue to strengthen ties with Russia and China.
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- 00:00:06hi everyone and welcome to this panel um
- 00:00:10we have a lot of ground to cover today
- 00:00:12so I'm going to jump right into
- 00:00:13questions but you can see we have an
- 00:00:15excellent panel set of panelists here
- 00:00:17today to discuss the issues at hand so
- 00:00:19it's obviously been a seismic week in in
- 00:00:21us and global politics with a republican
- 00:00:23sweep of the elections on Tuesday so I
- 00:00:25thought we'd treat this as a sort of
- 00:00:27in-depth uh Trump foreign policy primer
- 00:00:29since we have this hour so the panel is
- 00:00:32is going to examine the election
- 00:00:33outcomes and their implications for the
- 00:00:34Middle East and we'll focus on
- 00:00:36anticipated shifts in US relations with
- 00:00:38Russia and China as well as the roles of
- 00:00:40regional actors and we'll also be
- 00:00:42exploring potential shifts in strategic
- 00:00:44alignments and economic opportunities so
- 00:00:46I'd like to start with a sort of broad
- 00:00:48bigger picture question for Matt if we
- 00:00:50can so what are the potential changes in
- 00:00:52US foreign policy that we should be
- 00:00:54anticipating globally and given Trump's
- 00:00:56relative disdain for for multilateralism
- 00:00:58I think that's something that we we
- 00:00:59should explore from a sort of um broader
- 00:01:02perspective and I'd like to also explore
- 00:01:04how these shifts would resonate
- 00:01:06specifically across the Middle East sure
- 00:01:09and um thank you for inviting me to be
- 00:01:10part of this it's great to be back with
- 00:01:12uh Carnegie um and great to see you all
- 00:01:15so I think what's going to be
- 00:01:16interesting about Trump is actually how
- 00:01:18much continuity we might see uh with
- 00:01:21Biden because we saw unfortunately in my
- 00:01:23view a lot of continuity from Trump to
- 00:01:26Biden I think Biden campaigned um as a
- 00:01:30human rights President he campaigned he
- 00:01:32was very critical of Saudi Arabia the US
- 00:01:35Saudi relationship he was critical of
- 00:01:37trump for withdrawing from the Iran
- 00:01:39nuclear deal which he promised
- 00:01:41unequivocally uh to rejoin um all of
- 00:01:44that changed uh when Biden took office
- 00:01:47uh he you know he slow walked the the
- 00:01:50return to the Iran nuclear agreement the
- 00:01:52jcpoa and it eventually um was unable to
- 00:01:55do that and it's all but dead now as he
- 00:01:57has said um he within a few months
- 00:02:00um started a a reproach with um Saudi
- 00:02:04Arabia um and after initially kind of
- 00:02:07holding the Abraham Accords at arms
- 00:02:09length and saying well we can kind of
- 00:02:11see what we can do with this is this a
- 00:02:12framework for kind of regional stability
- 00:02:14they embraced it um completely um and
- 00:02:18and that's that's that's where we're at
- 00:02:20um so I think what we'll see with Trump
- 00:02:22is just a lot more of that I mean even
- 00:02:24without the kind of nominal pressure
- 00:02:27which I would barely even call pressure
- 00:02:29we've seen from the Administration on
- 00:02:31the Israeli government with regard to
- 00:02:32the way they're waging the war in Gaza
- 00:02:34and regionally I mean you know the
- 00:02:36little cautions here and there we won't
- 00:02:38really even uh get any of that um you
- 00:02:42know Trump is the one who is credited
- 00:02:44under his administration the Abraham
- 00:02:45Accords were were signed he's going to
- 00:02:47clearly keep pushing for that um you
- 00:02:50know as a way of kind of building a
- 00:02:51regional security alliance against Iran
- 00:02:55um but also I think what's part of what
- 00:02:56has been driving the US approach to the
- 00:02:59region especially under Biden um is the
- 00:03:01kind of new obsession with China uh in
- 00:03:04in Washington now clearly this again
- 00:03:06started this shift really began in in a
- 00:03:09in a big way under Trump uh they named
- 00:03:11China uh in the um National Security
- 00:03:13strategy under the Trump Administration
- 00:03:15China as the America's biggest rival and
- 00:03:18the Trump Biden Administration has
- 00:03:20referred to it as America's pacing
- 00:03:21threat whatever term one wants to use
- 00:03:24but a lot of the Biden administration's
- 00:03:26policy has been Guided by this effort uh
- 00:03:29to essentially try and box China um out
- 00:03:32of the region um you know which I think
- 00:03:34is misguided my view is that China has
- 00:03:36no desire to supplant the United States
- 00:03:38as kind of the regional security
- 00:03:40guarantor they watched the United States
- 00:03:42um you know tripping over itself for the
- 00:03:44for the past several decades um why
- 00:03:46would they want a piece of that but yet
- 00:03:48this is kind of the new uh the new kind
- 00:03:50of guiding Obsession for so many in
- 00:03:52Washington and for this Administration
- 00:03:54and I think we're going to see more of
- 00:03:56that from Trump as well
- 00:04:00thanks Matt and we'll delve more into
- 00:04:02Iran and Gaza and Lebanon in a little
- 00:04:04bit um I wanted to turn to Nicole first
- 00:04:07I mean how do you think Russia could
- 00:04:08respond to these potential US policy
- 00:04:10shifts even though Matt seems to think
- 00:04:11that there won't be a lot of them but um
- 00:04:13but generally speaking given the
- 00:04:15previous administr the the Trump
- 00:04:16Administration in in 2017 how do you
- 00:04:19sort of see um how do you see Russia as
- 00:04:21being able to respond given a potential
- 00:04:22shift in Dynamic compared to the Biden
- 00:04:24Administration and I'm thinking
- 00:04:26particularly about Iran and Israel but
- 00:04:28also Syria
- 00:04:30yeah I mean that's an interesting
- 00:04:32question and I think we have to go back
- 00:04:34to actually 2017 I mean there was a lot
- 00:04:36of Hope initially in Russia that the
- 00:04:38Trump Administration would allow Russia
- 00:04:41to reap benefits um because of partially
- 00:04:43uh Trump's inclination towards Putin but
- 00:04:46then what we actually saw was a far more
- 00:04:47forceful and actually um hostile
- 00:04:50Administration to the Russians I mean
- 00:04:52you see sanctions on Russia um secondary
- 00:04:55sanctions that impacted its arms um
- 00:04:57exports um there was imp on Ukraine with
- 00:05:00the Trump Administration actually
- 00:05:02providing Ukraine with weapons at the
- 00:05:03very um beginning prior to the Russian
- 00:05:06invasion in 2022 so there was this kind
- 00:05:09of shift in in animosity towards Trump
- 00:05:11and I think it led to a sense of
- 00:05:12disappointment in Russia and that's
- 00:05:13really reflected by the way that the
- 00:05:15Russians are discussing the Trump uh
- 00:05:17election right now I mean Putin has thus
- 00:05:20far kind of um indicated that he's uh
- 00:05:23open to dialogue with the Russians he he
- 00:05:26articulated this yesterday at the valdi
- 00:05:28discussion Club um and congratulated
- 00:05:30Trump which is kind of a stark contrast
- 00:05:32to Biden where it took him about like I
- 00:05:34think two months or a month or so to
- 00:05:36congratulate Biden or even mention this
- 00:05:38but then you see statements coming out
- 00:05:40of the Russian government saying that
- 00:05:42you know this is not going to change um
- 00:05:44the Russian priorities in Ukraine this
- 00:05:46is not going to lead to substantial
- 00:05:47shift in what Russia's goals are in the
- 00:05:49in the battlefield and I think that
- 00:05:51applies also to the Middle East I mean
- 00:05:53there's been a massive transformation in
- 00:05:55Russian foreign policy towards the
- 00:05:56Middle East since Trump's last
- 00:05:58presidency um and that's partly because
- 00:06:00of the war in Ukraine but also because
- 00:06:02of October 7 um there's this
- 00:06:04recalibration towards Iran um away from
- 00:06:06The Balancing Act that Russia used to
- 00:06:08play with Iran and Israel um and then on
- 00:06:11top of that is now you see this
- 00:06:12increasing pressure that Russia is
- 00:06:14facing from Israel um actually in Syria
- 00:06:16and I think you alluded to this is um
- 00:06:18there's been more strikes on assets
- 00:06:21really in close proximity to Russian
- 00:06:23interests and Tartus and laaka that um
- 00:06:26would would have been a red red line in
- 00:06:28um in the past and so maybe Russia might
- 00:06:30try to do what they did in around 2018
- 00:06:34and have this kind of grand bargain with
- 00:06:35the Trump Administration but I don't see
- 00:06:37it coming to the detriment of Iranian
- 00:06:39interests um because Russia is so
- 00:06:41entrenched and inwin intertwined with
- 00:06:43the Iranians with its war in Ukraine um
- 00:06:46and as long as the war in Ukraine
- 00:06:47persists I think for the Russians its
- 00:06:49priorities in the Middle East are also
- 00:06:51going to be shaped by that um and that's
- 00:06:53kind of the reality that they're facing
- 00:06:54and and and I don't think that the
- 00:06:56Russians have any disillusions when it
- 00:06:58comes or illus when it comes to um the
- 00:07:02US Administration I mean they understand
- 00:07:04that the role of Congress is probably
- 00:07:05going to play a pretty big role as well
- 00:07:07and that any kind of ront between the US
- 00:07:09and Russia is going to be constrained by
- 00:07:11either allegations of R Russia's
- 00:07:13internal interference or the war in
- 00:07:15Ukraine so I I wouldn't say that the
- 00:07:17Russians are actually viewing this as a
- 00:07:19real big opportunity they're actually
- 00:07:20quite cautious at the
- 00:07:23moment that's really interesting
- 00:07:25particularly regarding the the sort of
- 00:07:26Syria Paradigm but do you think that
- 00:07:28even with um both houses of Congress I
- 00:07:30mean I know that the house hasn't been
- 00:07:31determined yet but with both houses of
- 00:07:33Congress seemingly going Republican do
- 00:07:35you really think that that's going to be
- 00:07:37seen as a constraint on
- 00:07:39Trump I mean I think that there is a
- 00:07:41domestic atmosphere even within the
- 00:07:43Republican Party about uh the Russians
- 00:07:45at the moment I don't think that the
- 00:07:47Republican party is necessarily the one
- 00:07:49that is at the moment as inclined as it
- 00:07:51would have been in the past to pursue
- 00:07:53kind of a reproach with the Russians and
- 00:07:55then on top of that is sanctions are
- 00:07:56quite difficult to remove and Russia's
- 00:07:58under far more comprehensive sanction
- 00:08:00regime than it was um in the first Trump
- 00:08:03Administration so that's going to face a
- 00:08:05diff difficulty as well and of course
- 00:08:07there's a European side of this and I
- 00:08:08think that's a whole another story
- 00:08:10between Trump and the Europeans but I do
- 00:08:12think that there will be constraints I
- 00:08:13mean there will be opposition at least
- 00:08:15within the House of Representatives it
- 00:08:16might make it more difficult there could
- 00:08:18be inquiries I mean I don't think that
- 00:08:20the the the Trump Administration is
- 00:08:22going to be so unhindered when it comes
- 00:08:23to its engagement with the Russians and
- 00:08:26I wonder how much R Russia is a priority
- 00:08:28for the Trump administration at the
- 00:08:29moment I mean if they're going on the
- 00:08:31goals of kind of this competition with
- 00:08:33China is Russia going to still maintain
- 00:08:35a pretty big role in what their forign P
- 00:08:37foreign policy priorities
- 00:08:39are thanks Nicole I mean since China's
- 00:08:42on on everyone's lips today Tong I'd
- 00:08:44like to ask you about China's M Le
- 00:08:46strategy specifically so do you see
- 00:08:48China moving to deep in its economic and
- 00:08:50diplomatic ties in the region um and
- 00:08:52where might China strategy diverge or
- 00:08:54overlap with Russia and the
- 00:08:58US's well as uh Nicole mentioned I think
- 00:09:01uh Beijing expects a tougher uh China
- 00:09:04policy from the Trump
- 00:09:06Administration um and China's own policy
- 00:09:09will all be uh will all be uh also be
- 00:09:13more anti anti the United States but the
- 00:09:17uh on the other side uh I think China
- 00:09:21sees an opportunity that the US uh L
- 00:09:25coalision against China might be
- 00:09:27weakened under Trump
- 00:09:30um so that increases Chinese interests
- 00:09:32to uh drave wedge um between us and US
- 00:09:36allies traditional allies uh and
- 00:09:39expanding China's own uh influence
- 00:09:41geoeconomic and geopolitical influence
- 00:09:44in other regions and Middle East is of
- 00:09:47course increasingly important region for
- 00:09:50China it's such a key Hub of China's B
- 00:09:53and Road initiative the geopolitical
- 00:09:56importance uh is obvious uh um and China
- 00:10:00has made some recent progress in uh you
- 00:10:04know playing the role of a mediator uh
- 00:10:06in in the Middle East um and so far um
- 00:10:11China sees uh us uh
- 00:10:14largely has been retreating from the
- 00:10:17region it is losing influence many
- 00:10:19Chinese strategists pointed out that the
- 00:10:23recent War the escalation of the
- 00:10:25conflict uh is a strong evidence of
- 00:10:28decline American influence in this
- 00:10:31region uh I think China expects uh
- 00:10:35president Trump
- 00:10:36to uh more likely to want to end the war
- 00:10:41in the Middle East
- 00:10:43quickly uh and uh if the situation
- 00:10:46stabilizes
- 00:10:48afterwards uh China would see a greater
- 00:10:51opportunity for it to expand its own
- 00:10:55ambition in this region it's true that
- 00:10:58traditionally China has been focusing on
- 00:11:01enhancing its geoeconomic influence uh
- 00:11:05in the region there is uh perceived a
- 00:11:09need from many Regional countries for
- 00:11:12Chinese Investments
- 00:11:14Technologies uh China thinks it has real
- 00:11:18Advantage uh in economic area
- 00:11:20infrastructure building uh high tech um
- 00:11:24and China believe that to help Boer
- 00:11:28economic ties w the region to help
- 00:11:30Regional countries develop uh will also
- 00:11:33contribute to uh Stronger foundation for
- 00:11:38regional uh peace and and security um
- 00:11:41that said I think China also has um
- 00:11:45growing geopolitical ambition uh in in
- 00:11:49this region but how would China go about
- 00:11:52it uh is a little uncertain China used
- 00:11:55to be uh adopting a balanced uh approach
- 00:12:00to develop uh relations with all major
- 00:12:03powers in the region but now uh the
- 00:12:06interest in undermining American
- 00:12:09reputation has also influenced uh
- 00:12:12China's relationship with uh Israel um
- 00:12:17so uh in either case I think we are
- 00:12:20likely to see China continuing its
- 00:12:22current efforts to deepen relations with
- 00:12:25Arab countries uh you know continue its
- 00:12:28promotion of uh the China Arab states uh
- 00:12:32cooperation Forum the gulf multilateral
- 00:12:35security dialogue wanting to recruit
- 00:12:38more Regional countries uh into the
- 00:12:41bricks um group um and uh China sees
- 00:12:47opportunity uh to further uh drive a
- 00:12:50wedge uh between traditional us allies
- 00:12:53in this region and United States China
- 00:12:56thinks you know many Regional countries
- 00:12:58want to diver I ify their
- 00:13:00relationship um and um I think that
- 00:13:03provides opportunity for China to
- 00:13:05gradually expand its influence regarding
- 00:13:09um Russia China uh relationship in the
- 00:13:13region um I think in theory there would
- 00:13:16be greater opportunity for Russia and
- 00:13:18China to coordinate their policies but
- 00:13:21this will be an uneasy process because
- 00:13:25again traditionally Russia is the
- 00:13:27security is taking taking the lead on
- 00:13:30Regional security issues and China was
- 00:13:33focused on economic issues but I think
- 00:13:36in areas where Russia feels kind of
- 00:13:38comfortable and where Regional countries
- 00:13:40have a demand uh China would try to
- 00:13:43expand its influence in security and
- 00:13:47political issues as well including uh to
- 00:13:50have uh you know joint military
- 00:13:52exercises with Russia and Regional
- 00:13:57countries thank thank you um mahend I'd
- 00:14:01like to turn to you if you could give us
- 00:14:02a view from the Middle East I mean
- 00:14:04obviously a lot of people on this call
- 00:14:05will have um the conflict in Gaza top of
- 00:14:08mind and they also be thinking about
- 00:14:10Lebanon and what the sort of prospects
- 00:14:12are for a
- 00:14:14ceasefire thank you the
- 00:14:17the main expectation from the Trump
- 00:14:20Administration in in the next phase is
- 00:14:22basically more annexation of Palestinian
- 00:14:25lands in the West Bank um perhaps um
- 00:14:29even um beyond that you know whether
- 00:14:32Israel has some um annexation plans in
- 00:14:36the Gaza Strip for instance you know
- 00:14:38we've heard one of the ministers make a
- 00:14:40statement on that um that is definitely
- 00:14:44an expectation in terms of the
- 00:14:46humanitarian cost of the conflict we've
- 00:14:48so um the Biden Administration put some
- 00:14:51pressure and and give some warnings on
- 00:14:53the humanitarian um side of the conflict
- 00:14:56you know allowing uh Palestinians more
- 00:14:59access to Aid vaccines Etc I think that
- 00:15:03will not be the case under the Trump
- 00:15:05Administration most likely will not be
- 00:15:07the case on the Trump Administration um
- 00:15:09he has little scres allowing
- 00:15:11Israel um to continue the um conflict as
- 00:15:15such I mean there has been an
- 00:15:18announcement that he will seek a
- 00:15:20ceasefire very quickly but there there
- 00:15:23there's no discussion of what a
- 00:15:24ceasefire agreement that's acceptable to
- 00:15:26him uh looks like I mean Biden has a
- 00:15:29plan which is now you know rejected or
- 00:15:32brushed aside by Netanyahu but we don't
- 00:15:35know exactly what Trump um is is going
- 00:15:38to Endor endorse in his uh in his
- 00:15:41attempt um to impose ceasefire and in
- 00:15:44the Gaza Strip on on lebanon's side I
- 00:15:48think it it's it's not um uh it's not
- 00:15:53difficult to find um to reach a
- 00:15:55ceasefire agreement now given that
- 00:15:59hisbah accepts um the 1701 accepts a
- 00:16:03separation between the Gaza Strip and
- 00:16:05and Lebanon
- 00:16:07fronts but is I think the differences
- 00:16:10are on um the sovereignty issue whether
- 00:16:14there Israel will be allowed uh to
- 00:16:17conduct military operations after a
- 00:16:19ceasefire agreement in case there's a
- 00:16:21violation um you know Netanyahu is
- 00:16:24asking for some sort of a mechanism that
- 00:16:27would allow Israel to be some sort of of
- 00:16:29a granter of of such an agreement and
- 00:16:31that's unaccepted by hisbah so I I think
- 00:16:35this requires some work and negotiations
- 00:16:38and also uh from now until um January's
- 00:16:42um inauguration you know we might see a
- 00:16:44lot of developments on the ground
- 00:16:47whether you know Israeli advances or
- 00:16:49whether hisbah ullah's attempt to
- 00:16:53achieve uh some sort of an attrition on
- 00:16:56the battlefield leading the Israeli
- 00:16:58decide to recalculate what they uh what
- 00:17:01they expect or not from this conflict so
- 00:17:03I think you know while the announcement
- 00:17:06that you know Trump wants to cease fire
- 00:17:08right now as he gets into office and you
- 00:17:11know the reports that he has actually
- 00:17:14asked Nan to wrap everything up before
- 00:17:16he gets to office I think these will all
- 00:17:19uh depend on how much um advances
- 00:17:23Netanyahu can make on the
- 00:17:25ground in in in Lebanon and at the same
- 00:17:28same time you know what what what what
- 00:17:31remains acceptable um for Hamas um and
- 00:17:36its um allies in the Gaza Strip so you
- 00:17:39know and all of that we have to put it
- 00:17:42also in the context of what's going on
- 00:17:44the escalation with Iran you know if
- 00:17:45there's an
- 00:17:47escalation um with Iran from now until
- 00:17:50uh inauguration I think that will
- 00:17:52further complicate um complicate the
- 00:17:55situation so the view of the Middle East
- 00:17:57is an expectation um of more annexation
- 00:18:00in the West Bank a continuation of the
- 00:18:03past po policies you know while there's
- 00:18:06a continuation with uh the Biden
- 00:18:08Administration in terms of pursuing the
- 00:18:11uh the abrahamic Accords specifically
- 00:18:12with Saudi Arabia I agree with that but
- 00:18:15I think um under Trump there will be
- 00:18:18perhaps more willingness um to engage
- 00:18:20with that and give more concessions from
- 00:18:22the US side to achieve to aieve to
- 00:18:25achieve such an report and and continue
- 00:18:28the course of of
- 00:18:30overriding Palestinian statehood and
- 00:18:32aspirations and Palestinian rights um
- 00:18:36and also um on on the other hand in
- 00:18:38terms of you know the relationship with
- 00:18:41the gulf um you know the gulf is in a
- 00:18:44totally different place now you know
- 00:18:46it's has Diversified its relations it
- 00:18:48has um more stable relations with um
- 00:18:51stronger ties to Russia and to China um
- 00:18:55I think these will be um difficult to
- 00:18:58overturn
- 00:18:59but I think you know Trump might have um
- 00:19:04an interest specifically if he pursues
- 00:19:07an an aggressive anti-china policy would
- 00:19:10have an interest to negotiate uh
- 00:19:12different Arrangements in in the Gulf
- 00:19:15which will have um you know some more
- 00:19:17cons security concessions um uh to uh to
- 00:19:21give because I I don't think it will be
- 00:19:23an easy deal as you know the campaign uh
- 00:19:27has has
- 00:19:29you know has seen uh him portray this as
- 00:19:31an easy way forward you know and I think
- 00:19:34I agree with what ni said about the
- 00:19:36Ukraine uh context and I think not the
- 00:19:38same the same context you know the
- 00:19:40complications
- 00:19:42institutional um uh hurdles you know all
- 00:19:45of these apply as well to the Middle
- 00:19:47East and you know one big uh question
- 00:19:51that we all have about the Trump
- 00:19:52Administration is that how much of an
- 00:19:54Institutional push back will be in the
- 00:19:57uh us against any Trump policy you know
- 00:20:00we saw in in Trump um the first the
- 00:20:04first time in
- 00:20:062016 we saw 2017 onwards we saw um a
- 00:20:10push back against his attempt to
- 00:20:13withdraw from Syria with all US forces
- 00:20:15from Syria will that be the case and you
- 00:20:17know with him controlling Congress and
- 00:20:19with him having a majority of votes um
- 00:20:23and a more confident Trump surrounded by
- 00:20:26Loyalists and yes men um you know will
- 00:20:29we see a different um a different policy
- 00:20:32approach I think that's a that's a
- 00:20:33question that we will see an answer to
- 00:20:36very
- 00:20:37soon thank you for that and you set us
- 00:20:40up pretty well for the next uh segment
- 00:20:42which will really look at Iran um and
- 00:20:44the implications of of Trump's pivot on
- 00:20:46on policy there so um Matt I mean top of
- 00:20:49everyone's mind is as you know well we
- 00:20:51see a rever like a sort of aggression
- 00:20:53back to maximum pressure on Iran and and
- 00:20:56more broadly what do we have an
- 00:20:57indication of what Trump Trump's policy
- 00:20:59will be on
- 00:21:01Iran sure no I think we we can expect a
- 00:21:03reversion to maximum pressure but I also
- 00:21:06think it's you know worth noting you
- 00:21:08know maximum pressure has never worked
- 00:21:11um it is kind of one of these
- 00:21:13unfalsifiable arguments if it's not
- 00:21:15worked yet that that only means that we
- 00:21:17need more pressure um but that's also
- 00:21:19because it's not really a policy
- 00:21:21argument it's a political and
- 00:21:22ideological argument whose purpose is to
- 00:21:25sustain kind of hostility um toward Iran
- 00:21:29and to manage a political debate here
- 00:21:31and to support a set of aggressive
- 00:21:32policies toward Iran and you know and I
- 00:21:34think my real concern here is we've seen
- 00:21:37you know as I said I I expect continuity
- 00:21:40from Biden to Trump because we saw
- 00:21:42continuity in My View From Trump to
- 00:21:43Biden but now that we're in this moment
- 00:21:45where
- 00:21:46Netanyahu clearly you know has made some
- 00:21:49you know tact serious tactical gains
- 00:21:52against obviously Hamas with enormous
- 00:21:54human cost and then against Hezbollah um
- 00:21:57and now kind of deals excuse me affirmed
- 00:22:01um to kind of reshuffle the regional
- 00:22:03security deck I expect he would
- 00:22:05potentially have more support to
- 00:22:07continue doing this um from Trump and
- 00:22:10and the danger is um that the US gets
- 00:22:13drawn uh into a larger conflict that
- 00:22:15escalates out of control now even though
- 00:22:18I think Trump's unpredictability and
- 00:22:20recklessness have a tendency to bring
- 00:22:22the United States to the brink of these
- 00:22:24conflicts and have during his presidency
- 00:22:27I mean let's remember we were closer I
- 00:22:29think to war with North Korea than we
- 00:22:31ever had been we were very close to an
- 00:22:32open war with Iran in the wake of the
- 00:22:34solomani assassination and Trump you
- 00:22:37know when when he was at the brink um
- 00:22:39kind of pulled back um I would also say
- 00:22:41we we got a little lucky um that
- 00:22:43adversaries didn't behave um in in a
- 00:22:45more precipitous fashion um as well but
- 00:22:48that is the real concern even though I
- 00:22:50think Trump has shown some measure of
- 00:22:52restraint when faced with open War um we
- 00:22:55could get into a situation where it is
- 00:22:57no longer our choice
- 00:23:00which is interesting given a big plank
- 00:23:01of his platform um during the campaign
- 00:23:03has been that he would end all wars and
- 00:23:05he's the sort of first president who
- 00:23:07didn't start wars right if I could very
- 00:23:10quickly I think that's a really
- 00:23:11important point the fact that he saw
- 00:23:13that lane he understood and Vance was
- 00:23:15out there Vance's comments about Iran
- 00:23:17were very important too I mean he said
- 00:23:18you know Iran is up to a lot of bad
- 00:23:20stuff but we don't want a war with Iran
- 00:23:23um so again I I think that shows their
- 00:23:27understanding that this is a con uency
- 00:23:29of of undecided voters to be gotten and
- 00:23:31that unfortunately was something the
- 00:23:32Democrats did not get yeah although it's
- 00:23:35interesting because a lot of their
- 00:23:36people being floated as um leading his
- 00:23:38foreign policy a lot of the same
- 00:23:40characters who are there the first time
- 00:23:41around so we we'll have to sort of wait
- 00:23:43and see what that means um H I just
- 00:23:45wanted to go back to you on that so so
- 00:23:47what what do you think um that sort of
- 00:23:50shift is going to mean for Iran's
- 00:23:51network of proxies in the region I'm
- 00:23:53thinking particularly if sanctions get
- 00:23:55ramped up or if if you know Netanyahu is
- 00:23:57given free AR to continue his his
- 00:23:59campaign across the region I mean what
- 00:24:00do you think that means for for the
- 00:24:02so-called access of
- 00:24:06resistance yeah I mean the the um the
- 00:24:10different parts of the aess of
- 00:24:11resistance I mean whether in Iraq for
- 00:24:13instance which which is which has been
- 00:24:16trying to dodge uh sanctions or try to
- 00:24:18push push aside um sanctions and
- 00:24:21negotiations with the US I think now
- 00:24:23we'll see a um stronger push in that
- 00:24:27direction and I I think um that will
- 00:24:29have an impact um on on the pmf and will
- 00:24:32have an impact on on Iran's um allies
- 00:24:35but for the W um you know whether in in
- 00:24:38in Yemen you know the um the hthi
- 00:24:41movement and the
- 00:24:44um perhaps a stronger push might we
- 00:24:47might see in the direction of agonizing
- 00:24:50the hoi movement um leading um to an
- 00:24:54impact on uh the peace arrangement are
- 00:24:59there in Yemen I mean just to go back to
- 00:25:01the to the first Trump uh term when we
- 00:25:04had the Aram attack we had major
- 00:25:08destabilization across the Gulf region
- 00:25:11and that's uh that was a dark phase and
- 00:25:15uh in in that um in that sense and the
- 00:25:19the gulf has moved beyond that with
- 00:25:21security arrangements with new security
- 00:25:23arrangements with the diversifications
- 00:25:25of of their relationship with
- 00:25:27normalizing
- 00:25:29uh with the Iranian regime so there's a
- 00:25:31maximum pressure campaign on Iran um a
- 00:25:33grand push definitely um this will come
- 00:25:37hand in hand with an attempt to secure
- 00:25:40um a deal with with Saudi Arabia on
- 00:25:43normalization within the abrahamic
- 00:25:45Accords um all of this push is going to
- 00:25:49face um a big mountain of huddles um
- 00:25:54starting with um the uh arrangements are
- 00:25:57already in place and working unlike
- 00:26:00Trump's um policy in in
- 00:26:032017 which didn't yield security results
- 00:26:08Saudi Arabia is requesting an alliance
- 00:26:11um and security relationship with the US
- 00:26:14which would see the US um uh going into
- 00:26:18conflict in case Saudi Arabia is
- 00:26:19threatened I'm not sure Trump who does
- 00:26:22who's trying to keep the us out of
- 00:26:24conflicts with you know secure such a
- 00:26:27deal he he he might give in on the
- 00:26:30nuclear file um and uh but also here the
- 00:26:34question of institutional hurdles and
- 00:26:36the push back from these institutions in
- 00:26:39the US uh will will arise I think the
- 00:26:43um you know within within um the arms of
- 00:26:47Iran you know the the bigger um uh
- 00:26:50impact might be on on the pmf I mean the
- 00:26:54rest the rest of the um Iran allies are
- 00:26:58already under sanctions and we're
- 00:26:59already under pressure hisbah is in
- 00:27:01battle um a crushing uh battle which is
- 00:27:05saying vast um areas of Lebanon uh
- 00:27:09destroyed so I'm not
- 00:27:12sure how much um of a uh great uh
- 00:27:17strides ahead in his previous policies
- 00:27:21can Trump now resume he won't be
- 00:27:24starting from where he stopped in the
- 00:27:26last term I I think he'll be starting u
- 00:27:30a fresh and in in more difficult and
- 00:27:33challenging
- 00:27:35conditions Tong to switch to you I mean
- 00:27:38China has recently deepened its
- 00:27:39relationship with Iran so how might the
- 00:27:41country navigate um its Iran strategy if
- 00:27:44the US were to take this more
- 00:27:45confrontational
- 00:27:47approach um I I think uh regardless of
- 00:27:51us approach China will
- 00:27:54likely uh continue strengthening its Ty
- 00:27:58with Iran uh simply because of uh the
- 00:28:02Strategic importance of of the country
- 00:28:05and China has made uh impressive success
- 00:28:09in building comprehensive partnership
- 00:28:12with Iran Iran has become important
- 00:28:16strategic uh foothold for China in this
- 00:28:20region um if Trump adopts maximum
- 00:28:24pressure against Iran uh of course that
- 00:28:27would
- 00:28:28threaten uh the booming economic ties
- 00:28:31between China and Iran uh China may have
- 00:28:35greater difficulty importing oil from
- 00:28:38the country and it will need to
- 00:28:40diversify um its oil import um but the
- 00:28:46question is um under that scenario uh
- 00:28:50whether or how much will
- 00:28:53China try to actively undermine and
- 00:28:57challenge
- 00:28:58us maximum pressure on Iran including to
- 00:29:02challenge us sanctions more openly so
- 00:29:06far China has maintained a rather uh uh
- 00:29:10pragmatic
- 00:29:12approach uh despite the uh for example
- 00:29:15the the 25e cooperation agreement
- 00:29:18framework with Iran uh China has uh
- 00:29:23limited its uh investments in Iran uh in
- 00:29:26uh infrastructure its energy sector
- 00:29:31Etc um Chinese companies have genuine
- 00:29:35concerns about the impact of us
- 00:29:39sanctions the secondary impact on
- 00:29:42China um um I think whether you know how
- 00:29:47China makes that decision uh regarding
- 00:29:50whether it will accept the consequences
- 00:29:53of Greater us sanction on Iran or try to
- 00:29:56more actively challenge it will also be
- 00:30:00influenced by um the reactions from
- 00:30:03other Regional countries and also the
- 00:30:06international response uh Arab State you
- 00:30:10know Arab states um is an important uh
- 00:30:14consideration for China um you know to
- 00:30:19maintain uh its relationship with those
- 00:30:23countries perhaps that is an incentive
- 00:30:25for China to uh um dial down its efforts
- 00:30:30to explicitly support Iran
- 00:30:35um and but if the maximum pressure
- 00:30:40policy uh appears to really increase uh
- 00:30:44Regional tensions and uh and raising
- 00:30:47International concerns about uh crisis
- 00:30:51uh and
- 00:30:52escalation uh China might feel less
- 00:30:56constrainted uh to uh challenge the US
- 00:30:59approach and uh and support Iran
- 00:31:02economically and
- 00:31:04geopolitically um I think a slight
- 00:31:07different approach from Russia is uh
- 00:31:11China is more sensitive uh and more uh
- 00:31:15careful on U strategic uh military
- 00:31:19technology cooperation with Iran
- 00:31:21especially when it comes to uh nuclear
- 00:31:25technologies um to prevent uh Iran from
- 00:31:29becoming a nuclear another nuclear
- 00:31:31weapon state to uh prevent uh more
- 00:31:34countries in in the region uh to follow
- 00:31:38Iran's suit uh to prevent the uh the
- 00:31:42domino effect of nuclear
- 00:31:44proliferation uh in and Beyond this
- 00:31:47region is still in China's own long-term
- 00:31:50interests and this is I think slightly
- 00:31:53different from Russia given recent
- 00:31:56developments
- 00:31:58um and also to uh support uh
- 00:32:02nonproliferation um and oppose nuclear
- 00:32:06weapon development is also important for
- 00:32:09China's own International reputation and
- 00:32:12for its own campaign to win the hearts
- 00:32:15and the mans of the BR broader Global
- 00:32:17sou countries so in this regard we see I
- 00:32:21think uh China might not significantly
- 00:32:24change its position on the Iranian
- 00:32:26nuclear issue uh last year China
- 00:32:29published a key document about this
- 00:32:32Global Security initiative uh in which
- 00:32:36it uh have a it has a fiveo uh
- 00:32:40Initiative for achieving uh peace and
- 00:32:43stability in the Middle East and in in
- 00:32:46that uh initiative China really
- 00:32:48highlights the principle of nuclear
- 00:32:50ntion um and in addition to uh you know
- 00:32:54rhetorical U support to such Norms China
- 00:32:58is also building its uh coercive
- 00:33:01leverage um uh to um diversify it's uh
- 00:33:06its um uh ways to influence uh uh this
- 00:33:11uh uh development for example we know
- 00:33:13that uh China has provided Saudi Arabia
- 00:33:17with um more missile Technologies and is
- 00:33:21working with Saudi Arabia on some uh on
- 00:33:25developing the front end of Sou
- 00:33:28nuclear cycle technology mining uh
- 00:33:32uranium mining Etc um so in case there
- 00:33:36is need I think China can also use these
- 00:33:39leverages to shape Iran's future
- 00:33:44choices thank you for that that was very
- 00:33:46interesting I mean Nicole to go to you I
- 00:33:49mean earlier you mentioned Iran and
- 00:33:50Russia's relationship I was wondering if
- 00:33:52you could expand a little bit on that um
- 00:33:54now I mean given given Russia's closer
- 00:33:55relationship with Iran how is it going
- 00:33:57to shape um well how how will it shape
- 00:34:00its response if the US does does go back
- 00:34:02to maximum
- 00:34:03pressure well Russia's response to
- 00:34:05maximum pressure I think should be
- 00:34:07viewed in the context of kind of what
- 00:34:09emerged in the early Trump
- 00:34:10Administration with maximum pressure I
- 00:34:13mean the Russian's actually coordinated
- 00:34:14with the Europeans and the Chinese on
- 00:34:17countering Maxim maximum pressure and
- 00:34:19this included within the United Nations
- 00:34:21security Council um when it came to
- 00:34:23efforts actually to um increase
- 00:34:25diplomatic pressures such as prolonging
- 00:34:27the UN arms embargo the Russians and the
- 00:34:29Chinese coordinated on this and in in
- 00:34:32concert with also the Europeans um
- 00:34:34that's going to be different now I think
- 00:34:35the Russian response to maximum pressure
- 00:34:37won't be this kind of Coalition building
- 00:34:39within the P5 plus1 or the P4 plus one
- 00:34:43since the US withdrew from the nuclear
- 00:34:45agreement but it will be within I think
- 00:34:47the chin with the Chinese and also the
- 00:34:49global South and also the Arab states I
- 00:34:51think the fundamental difference um with
- 00:34:54this incoming Trump Administration is
- 00:34:56that the South and the UAE are not this
- 00:34:59kind of hostile actor towards Iran
- 00:35:01anymore I mean there is some kind of
- 00:35:02movement on normalization Russia has
- 00:35:04fairly good relations with both
- 00:35:05countries and so you could see them kind
- 00:35:08of playing this role of um at least
- 00:35:09trying to mitigate some of the pressure
- 00:35:12but more broadly the Russia Ron
- 00:35:13relationship is really crucial for
- 00:35:15Iran's defenses um you know the recent
- 00:35:18attacks that the Israelis launched on
- 00:35:20Iran destroyed some of Iranian um s300
- 00:35:24Radars um also other early warning
- 00:35:26Radars which the Russians supplied so
- 00:35:28there's a c crucial question is whether
- 00:35:30Russia will resupply or if they have the
- 00:35:32ability to do that or if they will
- 00:35:34provide technology transfer which is
- 00:35:36kind of what Tong alluded to when it
- 00:35:38came to the nuclear issue I mean there's
- 00:35:39been allegations coming out from the
- 00:35:41United States that the Russians are
- 00:35:43potentially uh supporting Iran's nuclear
- 00:35:45Ambitions or nuclear program um through
- 00:35:48Tech transfer that's that's different
- 00:35:50than before I you wouldn't have seen
- 00:35:51this prior to the war in Ukraine and so
- 00:35:53the Trump Administration is going to
- 00:35:55face a Russia that's no longer really um
- 00:35:57tied to an agreement on the Iranian
- 00:35:59nuclear issue they're actually more tied
- 00:36:01to their own Survival this war in
- 00:36:03Ukraine Iran's support for it and so
- 00:36:06they're not going to have the Russians
- 00:36:07going to play this role of kind of
- 00:36:09resolving the Iran nuclear issue and I
- 00:36:10think the Trump Administration might
- 00:36:12want to see that I mean there's one kind
- 00:36:15of view is you know whereas Trump I
- 00:36:17think might surround himself with people
- 00:36:19who are very hostile towards Iran you
- 00:36:21know people like Brian hook who kind of
- 00:36:23implemented this maximum pressure policy
- 00:36:25Trump himself kind of wants to see him
- 00:36:27you know maybe obtain a Nobel Prize
- 00:36:29maybe obtain some kind of agreement kind
- 00:36:31of akin to the North Koreans and the
- 00:36:33Iran nuclear issue is an opportunity
- 00:36:36there um and there are there's ways you
- 00:36:38know of getting around this I think some
- 00:36:39of the issues with weaponization but
- 00:36:41it's not to be with Russian
- 00:36:43participation I don't see the Russians
- 00:36:44playing a big role in that and that's a
- 00:36:46contrast to um the prior Administration
- 00:36:48where Russia probably would have wanted
- 00:36:50to play a bigger role in this and and
- 00:36:52and I think it's an extension of the
- 00:36:53kind of hostility between the US and
- 00:36:55Russia and the you know war in Ukraine
- 00:36:58and also the increasing ties between
- 00:37:00Russia and Iran I mean both Russia and
- 00:37:01Iran are so embedded with each other
- 00:37:03they're so tied together at the moment I
- 00:37:05mean of course there's tensions there's
- 00:37:06always going to be tensions in this
- 00:37:08relationship but there is this kind of
- 00:37:10mutual Reliance that has really come to
- 00:37:12the for and that even extends to
- 00:37:14Russia's support with a lot of Iran's um
- 00:37:17you know non-state allies and partners
- 00:37:18in the region from the houthis and also
- 00:37:20to the pmu I mean the Russians also have
- 00:37:22had experience working with them in the
- 00:37:24Syrian campaign and you might see Russia
- 00:37:26actually coming in there and supporting
- 00:37:28Iran um and its proxies and you
- 00:37:30non-state allies um to uh kind of
- 00:37:34mitigate some of this
- 00:37:37pressure I was going to sort of P it to
- 00:37:40security Now specifically but we've had
- 00:37:41a couple of comments um come in from
- 00:37:43from viewers that I wanted to sort of
- 00:37:45wrap in because I think it ties into
- 00:37:47what we're discussing at the moment so
- 00:37:49one um one of the comments is that you
- 00:37:51know is asking if Trump decides to pull
- 00:37:52the us out of NATO what will be the
- 00:37:54implications for European us and World
- 00:37:56security and we've had another one um
- 00:37:59that I want to sort of tie that into
- 00:38:01which is um from Bruce Rosen asking is
- 00:38:04there a sense of what the expanded
- 00:38:05bricks stands for within this region
- 00:38:07it's added Iran the UAE Saudi Arabia
- 00:38:09Egypt and Ethiopia so so given those two
- 00:38:11sort of paradigms I'm wondering if um if
- 00:38:13Matt you could sort of give us a sense
- 00:38:15of of what you think sure um I mean I'll
- 00:38:18take the first one I mean I don't expect
- 00:38:20Trump would just precipitously withdraw
- 00:38:22from NATO out of the gate I think his
- 00:38:24he'll continue with his argument of you
- 00:38:26know the Europeans need to pay more I
- 00:38:29mean I don't I think he still has has
- 00:38:32this understanding of how NATO works is
- 00:38:34that the European allies pay us because
- 00:38:36his his understanding of all this stuff
- 00:38:38is that of a a mob boss where you pay up
- 00:38:40to the Dawn and and that then you get to
- 00:38:42be part of the protection racket um but
- 00:38:46I do hope that you know you know rather
- 00:38:49than during the first Trump
- 00:38:51Administration um I do hope that
- 00:38:53European allies will take this as a sign
- 00:38:55that no you actually do need need to
- 00:38:57start taking much more serious steps um
- 00:39:00to develop your own you know Strategic
- 00:39:02Defense capabilities you know the word
- 00:39:03strategic autonomy is thrown around is
- 00:39:05kind of this you know the the kind of
- 00:39:07Holy Grail for a lot of people in
- 00:39:09Washington yet it never happens but I
- 00:39:11think this is a moment when a European
- 00:39:13allies really need to take this
- 00:39:15seriously and I think how they are seen
- 00:39:17by Trump as responding to that um
- 00:39:20whether they are paying their quote
- 00:39:21unquote fair share will determine um how
- 00:39:24he continues uh to kind of with NATO I
- 00:39:28mean it's not just going to be that
- 00:39:29there will be all kinds of other things
- 00:39:31where if European allies displease him
- 00:39:34over things completely unrelated um to
- 00:39:36Nato to Russia to Ukraine um that he
- 00:39:39could you know use the NATO threat um
- 00:39:41but I don't think he'll that'll be his
- 00:39:42first
- 00:39:43move well Matt since I have you um you
- 00:39:47know speaking about NATO specifically
- 00:39:49Victoria coot Fe former senior official
- 00:39:51on Trump's National Security Council
- 00:39:53spoke to my colleague recently in the
- 00:39:54past few days and said it was 100%
- 00:39:57correct quote to believe the second
- 00:39:59Trump presidency would end the area in
- 00:40:00which the US was seen as the guarantor
- 00:40:02of Western the Western World security so
- 00:40:05so with that I mean do you see a
- 00:40:06scenario where the US reduces its
- 00:40:08military presence in the Middle East and
- 00:40:09and if so how do you think Regional
- 00:40:11actors would respond to that change in
- 00:40:12the security landscape and thinking
- 00:40:14specifically about when Trump threatened
- 00:40:15to withdraw troops from Syria and Iraq
- 00:40:16last time right so
- 00:40:18right no I think yes I mean I think we
- 00:40:21we will see Trump make those moves I
- 00:40:23think we'll see some of the other people
- 00:40:25he might bring in also help resist that
- 00:40:28maybe in different ways um but I think
- 00:40:31he will succeed to some extent in doing
- 00:40:33that and this is where it's really
- 00:40:34interesting to go back um to look at the
- 00:40:37Abraham Accords because in my view the
- 00:40:39Abraham Accords were kind of sold to
- 00:40:41Trump as a formula for slowly
- 00:40:44withdrawing the United States from the
- 00:40:45Middle East when in fact I think for our
- 00:40:47clients and partners like Israel like
- 00:40:49the amadis it was seen as a way to
- 00:40:52essentially lock in um us commitments um
- 00:40:56in the region maybe in a different way
- 00:40:58qualitatively than we had the role we
- 00:41:00had played in the past but I think the
- 00:41:02way it was sold to Trump is actually
- 00:41:03different from the way it's working from
- 00:41:05the view of our partners and in clients
- 00:41:07in the region so I'll see it'll be
- 00:41:08interesting to see um if that tension is
- 00:41:11is brought to the for when he takes some
- 00:41:12of those steps as I expect he
- 00:41:15will Nicole if if the US does scale back
- 00:41:19um could Russia increase its influence
- 00:41:20in the in Regional security um you know
- 00:41:23regarding Syria or
- 00:41:25Libya I highly doubt that I I think that
- 00:41:28the Russians have you know they've come
- 00:41:30up with this collective security concept
- 00:41:31for the Middle East in
- 00:41:332019 I believe but this was a
- 00:41:35long-standing policy and it was all
- 00:41:38about the removal of foreign forces from
- 00:41:40the region pretty much directed at the
- 00:41:41United States I mean the Russians don't
- 00:41:43really have the they've never had a
- 00:41:45large footprint in Syria um they've
- 00:41:47never really had a official footprint in
- 00:41:49Libya that's mostly through private
- 00:41:50military contractors um but in Syria I
- 00:41:53mean the Russians have never you know
- 00:41:55they have the Air Force and they have
- 00:41:57some pad's troops and forces but it's
- 00:41:59not this major contingent or deployment
- 00:42:02and I don't think Russia really wants to
- 00:42:03have that I mean if anything Russia's
- 00:42:05strategy in Syria has been kind of
- 00:42:07fostering connections with uh you know
- 00:42:10former opposition figures and trying to
- 00:42:12integrate them into the Syrian Army so
- 00:42:14and you've seen that a lot in the south
- 00:42:16of um Syria so I think the Russians are
- 00:42:18more focused on actually courting
- 00:42:20Regional Partners um in the region
- 00:42:22rather than providing security
- 00:42:24themselves that doesn't suggest that
- 00:42:26Russia won't provide weapons or like
- 00:42:28arms to these um kind of forces but I
- 00:42:31don't see Russia coming in and providing
- 00:42:33the kind of level of security of the
- 00:42:35United States and I think that'd be very
- 00:42:38difficult to do that I mean no State can
- 00:42:39really have such a large deployment of
- 00:42:41advanced Weaponry to the region the way
- 00:42:43the United States does and even in just
- 00:42:46in terms of like the basing uh
- 00:42:47agreements I mean the US has by far the
- 00:42:49largest like network of bases throughout
- 00:42:51the region so to replace that I think
- 00:42:53that' be quite a lofty Endeavor and the
- 00:42:55Russians don't really see benefit to
- 00:42:59that mad we sort of the main difference
- 00:43:02between between this Trump
- 00:43:04Administration and the previous one is
- 00:43:06that you have this hushon between Iran
- 00:43:08and the gulf um I'm wondering how how
- 00:43:11you sort of see that shaping I mean they
- 00:43:13have we sort of gotten an indication
- 00:43:14from the Gulf rulers about how they
- 00:43:16their sort of feeling about a trump a
- 00:43:18second Trump presidency um and what how
- 00:43:20do you anticipate those relationships
- 00:43:21sort of affecting the
- 00:43:24Dynamics yes I think the the
- 00:43:26normalization has paid off there are um
- 00:43:29consultations that are happen on a
- 00:43:31regular basis we saw the Iranian foreign
- 00:43:33minister doing some of these in contacts
- 00:43:36across the region I I I see these
- 00:43:40difficult to roll back um at least not
- 00:43:42in the fashion that you know we're we're
- 00:43:44being sold in in in the media in terms
- 00:43:47of rhetoric um and and part of this is
- 00:43:50related to the peace in Yemen um the
- 00:43:53peace in Yemen came as a result of
- 00:43:55negotiations and as um of um a Saudi and
- 00:44:01amirati um uh line of thinking that they
- 00:44:05need uh to move forward uh away and
- 00:44:09aside from um the
- 00:44:12usion on on that on that uh on that
- 00:44:15front so I I see these as difficult uh
- 00:44:18to roll back uh from but at the same
- 00:44:21time you know there are areas in which
- 00:44:24you know I see um I see perhaps um some
- 00:44:28convergence between what the Trump
- 00:44:30Administration will bring forward and
- 00:44:32what um the gulf is is interested in for
- 00:44:35instance um the UAE Russia um um are are
- 00:44:40both uh interested in uh pursuing some
- 00:44:43sort of normalization um path between
- 00:44:47Syria and the Western world that I think
- 00:44:49the Trump Administration might buy into
- 00:44:52for some reason you know we're hearing
- 00:44:53that the um that the Israelis might look
- 00:44:57into guarantees by the Syrian regime and
- 00:45:00and Russia in uh in Syria um um as part
- 00:45:05of a package deal with Lebanon to
- 00:45:07implement 171 and and prevent weapons
- 00:45:10from going into Lebanon I mean that if
- 00:45:13that that's really the case and that's a
- 00:45:15trump policy you know policy U moving
- 00:45:19ahead I think they will um go forward
- 00:45:22with that and and work together on this
- 00:45:24but I just failed to see um a a quick
- 00:45:28switch from uh the current architecture
- 00:45:32which is being put in place and it works
- 00:45:35and it works if you look at the 2017
- 00:45:372018 turmoil across the region you know
- 00:45:40the solution was this of course it's not
- 00:45:43the perfect solution that Saudi Arabia
- 00:45:46hopes for but I think um it it did
- 00:45:50respond to the security challenges and I
- 00:45:52see it difficult to roll back at least
- 00:45:55in a in a quick fashion so I think um in
- 00:45:58the in the first in the first months of
- 00:46:00the Trump um Administration we'll see uh
- 00:46:04we'll see a lot of these uh
- 00:46:06challenges um and and we'll see whether
- 00:46:09the Trump Administration will reconcile
- 00:46:11with these will try to push forward the
- 00:46:14policy um that will face many challenges
- 00:46:17in the
- 00:46:19region i' like actually we just had I
- 00:46:22was about to Pivot to the economy but we
- 00:46:23just had an interesting question so um
- 00:46:26the there's a question about are we
- 00:46:28entering a new era of permanent low
- 00:46:29intensity sometimes high-intensity
- 00:46:31conflict fundamentally different from
- 00:46:33previous eras um and you know the middle
- 00:46:35Easter would have certainly been prone
- 00:46:37to that in previous eras so I'm
- 00:46:38wondering mandad what you think of
- 00:46:42that yes I mean precise precisely that I
- 00:46:45think that's netanyahu's vision of um
- 00:46:48solution to his conflict he rejects a
- 00:46:51ceasefire he doesn't want a ceasefire he
- 00:46:53wants uh deals in the interm and which
- 00:46:57the conflict would be ongoing he would
- 00:46:59have a Syria um Battlefield or Playfield
- 00:47:02in front of him to launch a strikes um
- 00:47:06whenever he feels a need to do that in
- 00:47:09the Gaza Strip in in Lebanon as well um
- 00:47:13and I think that applies you know to a
- 00:47:15wider context to um other Arenas across
- 00:47:20the region you know we're talking about
- 00:47:21Yemen um Libya in which there's no real
- 00:47:25end or final solution to the um to the
- 00:47:29conflicts but more of an uh interm deals
- 00:47:33that secure some sort of a low intensity
- 00:47:35uh Conflict at least for our region
- 00:47:38we're seeing that we're living that I
- 00:47:40think that's you know that that decade
- 00:47:42is all about these low intensity
- 00:47:44conflicts in Syria and in Iraq and um
- 00:47:48also in in Libya and in
- 00:47:50Yemen and I think that's you know Sudan
- 00:47:54is is heading in that direction
- 00:47:55certainly and specifically you know if
- 00:47:58we see some sort of a deal um there will
- 00:48:01be a low intensity conflict um ongoing
- 00:48:05on on that front um you know and I also
- 00:48:09don't see the Trump Administration as a
- 00:48:12as an Administration which is capable of
- 00:48:14changing that reality and I think you
- 00:48:17know that from from the looks of it it's
- 00:48:20also another set of trial and error um
- 00:48:25as as it was in in the
- 00:48:27uh Administration that might you know
- 00:48:30lead to more blunders and perhaps more
- 00:48:33battlefields you know it was um the the
- 00:48:37the Trump the first Trump administration
- 00:48:39led to a lot of turmoil um across uh the
- 00:48:43region and I think uh the second one um
- 00:48:46you know might not be far off from
- 00:48:50that thank you um I think we'll switch
- 00:48:53you know we've only got about 12 minutes
- 00:48:55remaining on the clock so I to switch to
- 00:48:57a little bit about um economic Dynamics
- 00:48:59and competition so Tong with the belon
- 00:49:01road initiative expanding across the
- 00:49:03region how do you think us China
- 00:49:05competition might evolve in Middle
- 00:49:07Eastern infrastructure Tech and
- 00:49:10trade uh well firstly I think uh China's
- 00:49:14own B and Road initiative is also
- 00:49:17evolving um you know partially because
- 00:49:19of China's own internal economic
- 00:49:22challenges the government simply uh
- 00:49:24doesn't have uh as much resources uh to
- 00:49:29spend
- 00:49:31overseas um and China needs to uh react
- 00:49:35to uh International
- 00:49:37criticisms on creating so-called debt uh
- 00:49:41debt traps uh in uh developing
- 00:49:45countries um China also faces uh you
- 00:49:50know increasing challenges from
- 00:49:52alternative um uh initiatives including
- 00:49:56the India middle east Europe economic
- 00:49:59Corridor uh China is also very concerned
- 00:50:02about the influence of uh you know the
- 00:50:05quadrilateral cooperation between us
- 00:50:08India uh UAE and
- 00:50:11Israel um so we see uh now the Chinese
- 00:50:16government emphasizing a new approach
- 00:50:19for Bon road which is to focus on
- 00:50:22so-called uh small and beautiful uh
- 00:50:26projects
- 00:50:28um that you know uh and also the
- 00:50:31government uh tries to mobilize uh
- 00:50:33greater Investments uh from uh private
- 00:50:37economic sectors in China to expand
- 00:50:40their business uh and economic uh
- 00:50:42influence in the region um I think U
- 00:50:46China certainly in this uh readjusted
- 00:50:49approach wants to highlight China's own
- 00:50:52advantages uh in addition to uh its uh
- 00:50:56obvious disadvantage in infrastructure
- 00:50:59projects uh China really wants to make
- 00:51:02uh the most out of its uh uh you know uh
- 00:51:06increasing advantages in clean energy
- 00:51:10including uh solar uh uh energy and and
- 00:51:14wind uh energy uh this can also help uh
- 00:51:18resolve China's own over production over
- 00:51:22capacity uh problem um China is also
- 00:51:25Keen to promote uh nuclear energy
- 00:51:28cooperation uh with regional
- 00:51:32countries Nicole I mean given both
- 00:51:35Russia and the US are major players in
- 00:51:37global energy uh could we see a more
- 00:51:39competitive or cooperative stance on
- 00:51:40energy Partnerships in the Middle East
- 00:51:42particularly in the
- 00:51:44Gulf um I mean I think this actually
- 00:51:46goes back to the max part of the maximum
- 00:51:48pressure discussion is I mean if you see
- 00:51:50Russia I mean if you see the United
- 00:51:52States really imposing stringent um oil
- 00:51:54sanctions on Iran and imposing these oil
- 00:51:57sanctions without waivers you might see
- 00:51:59Russia benefiting from that and I mean
- 00:52:00Russia cooperates within OPEC plus I
- 00:52:03mean us has not really been as involved
- 00:52:05in this as the Russians but the Russians
- 00:52:07have benefited from higher oil prices
- 00:52:09and higher volatility at times in the
- 00:52:11oil Market um in general I mean they I
- 00:52:13think that they're more averse to any
- 00:52:15kind of attacks like you saw in 2019 on
- 00:52:17like aramco or Saudi oil infrastructure
- 00:52:20but there will be this competition and
- 00:52:21the US has you know tried to at least
- 00:52:23minimize Russia's access to certain
- 00:52:25markets but then you see seen with the
- 00:52:27sanctions since Ukraine is Russia really
- 00:52:28using kind of these black market um
- 00:52:31vessels you know that actually that Iran
- 00:52:33used to use um to export to kind of like
- 00:52:35teapot um refineries in in in East Asia
- 00:52:39um and so Russia's probably going to
- 00:52:41continue to do that and I don't think
- 00:52:43that you're going to see the removal or
- 00:52:44at least like the restrictions on some
- 00:52:46of the the limitations to Russia's
- 00:52:48exports to the European countries or to
- 00:52:50the EU um as kind of a way to minimize
- 00:52:54Russia's um influence more broadly I
- 00:52:56think Russia is going to continue to
- 00:52:57kind of view the Middle East and OPEC
- 00:52:59plus as a really fundamental part of its
- 00:53:01foreign policy because of its ability to
- 00:53:04at least um increase its revenues for
- 00:53:06its budget um which is really crucial
- 00:53:08right now for its war effort but also
- 00:53:10because Russia does see it's kind of
- 00:53:12like access to e of the Suz is a really
- 00:53:14important Vector when it comes to um
- 00:53:16both its Black Market exports but also
- 00:53:19some of the above ground exports to
- 00:53:20countries like China as
- 00:53:22well I'd like to just ask Matt so so
- 00:53:26given um how might a you a new Trump
- 00:53:29Administration stance on energy
- 00:53:30Independence affect its traditional
- 00:53:32alliances with with the Gulf States I
- 00:53:33mean are there other areas that could
- 00:53:35come into play for us Partnerships in
- 00:53:36the in the Middle East like Tech or
- 00:53:38renewable energy no I mean I think you
- 00:53:40know obviously Trump has has really
- 00:53:42touted his role you know in in you know
- 00:53:45continuing to build America's energy
- 00:53:46Independence drill baby drill and all of
- 00:53:48that um I mean so that will remove some
- 00:53:52potential leverage um from from you know
- 00:53:54the Gulf States but all you know but
- 00:53:56given that it's a global market that
- 00:53:58will still have their ability to impact
- 00:54:00the US economy uh will remain um so
- 00:54:04Trump will remain interested um in in
- 00:54:07what goes on there um you know in terms
- 00:54:09of tech you know I definitely expect him
- 00:54:12to to continue to lean in uh to that
- 00:54:14part of the relationship and I also want
- 00:54:16you know I don't want to have to keep
- 00:54:17coming back to the Abraham Accords but I
- 00:54:19also feel like I should mention that you
- 00:54:20know the provision of Israeli Tech uh to
- 00:54:23other governments in the region um
- 00:54:25unfortunately of um for purposes of
- 00:54:28repression um is a big kind of
- 00:54:30underlying driver um of of these
- 00:54:33agreements and again I think Trump will
- 00:54:34be Allin behind
- 00:54:38that I think that'll be it for our
- 00:54:40questions given we only have about five
- 00:54:42minutes left on the clock but I was
- 00:54:43wondering if I could turn to each one of
- 00:54:45you and give me sort of ask you for your
- 00:54:47thoughts so so specifically on what um a
- 00:54:49multi-polar Middle East could look like
- 00:54:51in the coming years so so what should we
- 00:54:53be watching most closely as these sort
- 00:54:55of global Powers Jo for influence in the
- 00:54:57region um so I'd like to start with
- 00:54:59Nicole
- 00:55:01please I mean I would look into not
- 00:55:04buying in too much into the notion of
- 00:55:06multipolarity um I think that it's been
- 00:55:09you might we might just continue to see
- 00:55:11us hemony in the Middle East or external
- 00:55:13Chemin in the Middle East going
- 00:55:17forward thank
- 00:55:20you I think it goes back to the question
- 00:55:23of um you know how much we see you of an
- 00:55:26in institutional continuity from from
- 00:55:28the first uh from the Biden
- 00:55:30Administration before that from the
- 00:55:31Trump Administration and I think that uh
- 00:55:34will rely a lot on um how much
- 00:55:37resilience and um and and kind of uh um
- 00:55:43strength Within These institution
- 00:55:45remains Independence given um you know
- 00:55:48the unique moment that this is I mean
- 00:55:51this is a trump Administration which has
- 00:55:53won a majority of votes a very clear
- 00:55:57uh win in the elections with a congress
- 00:56:01um on his on his side so this is a um I
- 00:56:05think um you know these circumstances
- 00:56:08are to be noted when looking at kind of
- 00:56:12impact his policies and I think that's a
- 00:56:15more power to the human agency Visa V
- 00:56:18whatever structure uh remains in the
- 00:56:20United
- 00:56:23States um Tong
- 00:56:27um I think we are broadly observing uh
- 00:56:30Chinese transition from its traditional
- 00:56:32focus on GE economic influence in the
- 00:56:35region to a greater interest in
- 00:56:36expanding its geopolitical influence
- 00:56:39China wants to you know provide a
- 00:56:41security Alternatives uh you know step
- 00:56:44by step um um to Regional countries uh
- 00:56:49the real question is will China really
- 00:56:52invest and really put its own stake uh
- 00:56:55into this
- 00:56:56ambition for example will
- 00:56:59China take substantive measures to
- 00:57:02promote uh two-state solution uh or are
- 00:57:06does they have you know a grand design
- 00:57:09for uh Regional security uh regime and
- 00:57:13wants to really invest genuine political
- 00:57:16and economic resources to promote that
- 00:57:19Vision um and related when China does
- 00:57:22this and tries to expand this you know
- 00:57:24overall geostrategic influence
- 00:57:27will we see genuine uh cooperation with
- 00:57:30Russia in this area or will will will we
- 00:57:33see actual increasing uh competition
- 00:57:37with Russia given that Russia's you know
- 00:57:40traditional uh uh sphere are we influenc
- 00:57:43in this
- 00:57:44region thank you and Matt I just wanted
- 00:57:47to end with you and if you could address
- 00:57:49Nicole's comments regarding us uh
- 00:57:51Germany in the region I mean that's you
- 00:57:53know given given everything that the
- 00:57:55Trump um ad Administration has been well
- 00:57:56the Trump campaign has been saying over
- 00:57:58the last year and also given the
- 00:58:00patterns that we're seeing emerge from
- 00:58:01the electorate in this election you know
- 00:58:03that the priorities were demestic they
- 00:58:04were not foreign so so how do you sort
- 00:58:07of see that um shaping policy in the
- 00:58:08next few years right I mean I pretend to
- 00:58:11agree with Nicole I don't think we're
- 00:58:12going to see kind of a a real shift to
- 00:58:14multipolarity in the region the United
- 00:58:16States is still the most you know
- 00:58:18powerful outside military actor by far
- 00:58:21and I also as I indicated earlier in my
- 00:58:24view while China is clearly building um
- 00:58:26you know its economic relationships it's
- 00:58:28its cultural and soft power
- 00:58:29relationships in the region um I think
- 00:58:32it perceives a benefit from the United
- 00:58:34States playing the role it's playing and
- 00:58:36the Damage actually that this is doing
- 00:58:38to the United States to its Global
- 00:58:40appeal especially to many of these
- 00:58:42audiences in the developing world the
- 00:58:44global South whatever term one wants to
- 00:58:46use that China is also seeking uh to
- 00:58:49appeal to now this may change at at some
- 00:58:51point um now how in terms of how Trump
- 00:58:55would like to relate to it clearly Trump
- 00:58:56I think you know doesn't want to get
- 00:58:58ripped off that's kind of the guiding
- 00:59:00you know you know imperative for
- 00:59:02everything domestic and foreign um so I
- 00:59:04think the question will be how does he
- 00:59:06perceive and who who gets in his ear uh
- 00:59:08and convinces him about how how America
- 00:59:11is or is not being ripped off in any of
- 00:59:13these
- 00:59:15circumstances well thank you so much to
- 00:59:17our panelists this was an excellent and
- 00:59:19very thorough chat um I'd also like to
- 00:59:21thank all of the viewers for their
- 00:59:23really informed questions um and
- 00:59:25attentiveness sou s thank you everyone
- 00:59:28thank you thank you
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