What It Takes to Open a Coffee Shop
Summary
TLDRIn this insightful episode of the College Info Geek podcast, Thomas Frank interviews Dale Shy, owner of Park Avenue Coffee in St. Louis, Missouri. Dale shares his journey from IT professional to coffee shop owner, detailing the expansion of his business from a single outlet to four coffee shops, a roasting facility, and a baking operation. The conversation delves into the challenges and strategies that come with running a coffee business, focusing on customer service, community engagement, and product quality as key elements of success. Dale emphasizes the importance of having the right people, engaging with the community, and maintaining consistency in business operations. He also explains the unique aspects of his operation, such as air-roasting coffee and offering a St. Louis specialty dessert. Throughout, Dale's passion for his work stands out, offering listeners valuable insights into entrepreneurship and business management.
Takeaways
- ☕ Dale transitioned from an IT career to owning a coffee business.
- 🏢 Park Avenue Coffee has expanded to multiple locations, a roasting facility, and a bakery.
- ⚡ Customer service and community engagement are crucial for business success.
- 📦 Each Park Avenue Coffee shop reflects the unique community and architecture of its location.
- 🌍 The company embraces local flavors and specialties, notably the gooey buttercake.
- 💡 Expansion often involves adapting to new opportunities and challenges.
- 🔧 Dale's previous business experiences contributed to his current success.
- 🥇 Emphasizing quality and consistency helps retain a loyal customer base.
- 🌱 Roasting his own coffee allowed Dale to maintain high standards.
- 🎙️ The discussion provides a framework applicable beyond the coffee industry.
Timeline
- 00:00:00 - 00:05:00
In this episode of the College Info Geek Podcast, host Thomas Frank introduces a topic that's slightly different from the usual student-focused content: the intricacies of running a coffee shop. Although not every student aspires to this, Frank's curiosity was piqued due to a friend's entrepreneurial aspirations during his college days. This episode promises to explore the challenges and insights of running such a business through an interview with an experienced coffee shop owner.
- 00:05:00 - 00:10:00
Thomas recounts a personal anecdote about a friend's desire to open a coffee shop and his simplistic initial advice. This experience led him to reflect on the complexities of the coffee business, particularly as he spends much of his time working in such environments. Intrigued by the operational challenges posed by low product margins, he decided to investigate further by reaching out to a coffee shop he revered for its superb coffee during a visit to St. Louis.
- 00:10:00 - 00:15:00
The podcast takes a dive into the interview with Dale Shye, the owner of Park Avenue Coffee, who expands on his journey from one shop to multiple outlets along with additional ventures like a roasting facility and a baking operation. His narrative includes how he transitioned from IT to coffee under serendipitous circumstances, discussing the early challenges and his operational philosophies that have underpinned his success.
- 00:15:00 - 00:20:00
Dale Shye shares his backstory and how his venture into the coffee business was somewhat unplanned, yet welcomed due to his love for coffee and the community-centered nature of coffee shops. He describes the evolution of his business, including the pivotal moment when he acquired his first shop due to a series of personal life changes both for him and the previous owner. His sister, pivotal in the establishment's management, supported him effectively to build the business from scratch.
- 00:20:00 - 00:25:00
Dale emphasizes how the people-oriented nature of the coffee business requires excellent customer service as a foundation for success. His guiding principles around managing a coffee shop focus on establishing consistent quality and customer interactions, which eventually laid the groundwork for the expansion beyond a single outlet. The spontaneous opportunity to expand into gooey buttercake production played a crucial part, further diversifying and sustaining his business model.
- 00:25:00 - 00:30:00
The discussion veers into Dale's experimentation with the localized dessert, gooey buttercake, which partnered well with his coffee business and became a defining feature. This addition, along with local grocery partnerships, facilitated further growth and led to opening a separate baking facility. The narrative outlines the creative logistical decisions undertaken to expand their product line efficiently, leveraging local cultural tastes and business relationships.
- 00:30:00 - 00:35:00
Dale explains his strategic decision-making process concerning business expansion, exemplified by the opening of a downtown location facilitated by a mutually beneficial offer from property developers. The expansion came with challenges, but successes were driven by responding to local demand and ensuring a presence in key areas like downtown St. Louis, where foot traffic from convention goers fueled growth.
- 00:35:00 - 00:40:00
The expansion continued cautiously, factoring in local demand and operational capabilities. Dale details the introduction of a roasting facility utilizing innovative air roasting technology and leveraging sustainable practices. This facility not only supplied his own stores but serviced the needs of multiple clients, demonstrating a pragmatic approach to diversification and quality control that aligns with his overall growth strategy.
- 00:40:00 - 00:45:00
This segment explores how community engagement and understanding the local market are pivotal to Park Avenue Coffee’s success. Dale attributes the thriving business to community involvement, such as supporting local events and engaging actively with their locale, which reciprocates through consumer loyalty and high service patronage. His expansion is framed as a natural progression driven by community sentiments and business needs.
- 00:45:00 - 00:50:00
As expansion opportunities emerged, Dale maintained a focus on matching his shop's atmosphere with the unique character of the locales, avoiding a cookie-cutter approach. Each shop maintains its distinct essence, reflecting the neighborhood's vibe, fostering familiarity and continuity with regular customers while adapting to new market trends, like implementing digital elements in modern areas to align with progressive clientele.
- 00:50:00 - 00:55:00
Throughout the interview, Dale emphasizes the importance of building a strong team and hiring personnel who complement the business's operational demands. By acknowledging his own strengths and weaknesses, he strategically delegates roles, fostering an environment where employees can take initiative and align with the business's core values, assuring operational efficiency even as the business scales up.
- 00:55:00 - 01:02:51
The conversation wraps up with Dale's advice on entrepreneurship, underscoring the value of passion in business ventures. He stresses the importance of adaptability and continuous learning, which have been vital in navigating the dynamic landscape of running multiple coffee shops. His focus on customer-centric strategies and community involvement has established a thriving business model that goes beyond just selling coffee.
Mind Map
Video Q&A
Did Dale Shy always plan to expand Park Avenue Coffee to multiple locations?
Dale Shy initially didn't plan to open more locations; opportunities came as his business grew successfully.
How many locations does Park Avenue Coffee have?
Park Avenue Coffee has four coffee shops, a roasting facility, and a separate baking facility as of now.
How did Dale Shy and his sister manage the first coffee shop?
Dale Shy and his sister started with one location, which she managed while he maintained his IT job.
What were the initial steps Dale Shy took to improve the first coffee shop?
Dale Shy bought his first coffee shop, which was small and manageable, and focused on customer service and quality as key principles.
What makes Park Avenue Coffee unique from other coffee shops?
Park Avenue Coffee is unique due to its commitment to community engagement, consistency, and quality. Each location has individualized themes reflecting its environment.
Does Park Avenue Coffee roast its own coffee beans?
Yes, they roast their own coffee and have a unique air roasting method which offers a cleaner taste without bitterness.
What experience did Dale Shy have before opening Park Avenue Coffee?
Dale's background includes running an IT business and a failed transmission repair shop before opening Park Avenue Coffee.
What are the key principles Dale Shy attributes to Park Avenue Coffee's success?
Dale Shy emphasizes customer service and community engagement as foundational principles for sustaining business success.
Why did Park Avenue Coffee expand to multiple locations?
To reach wider clientele and ensure quality and consistency across locations, Dale expanded the coffee shop into central and popular areas in St. Louis.
What unique local product does Park Avenue Coffee offer alongside their coffee?
The gooey buttercake is a local St. Louis specialty and one of Park Avenue Coffee's unique product offerings.
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- 00:00:05hey what's going on everybody and
- 00:00:06welcome to the college info geek podcast
- 00:00:08my name is Thomas Frank and this is a
- 00:00:10show that helps you become a more
- 00:00:11effective student and in this episode
- 00:00:15you're going to learn what it takes to
- 00:00:16open a coffee shop now hear me out I
- 00:00:18know this is probably not a goal that
- 00:00:20every single student has but this is an
- 00:00:23episode that I was a bit curious about
- 00:00:25because when I was in college I had a
- 00:00:27friend of mine who really wanted to open
- 00:00:28her own coffee shop when she graduated
- 00:00:30and she asked me you know what's your
- 00:00:32advice for doing that I know you don't
- 00:00:34own a coffee shop but you own your own
- 00:00:36business and maybe some of your advice
- 00:00:38can translate over to the coffee
- 00:00:40business and I was like I don't know the
- 00:00:43only thing I can think of is for you to
- 00:00:44go get a job at a coffee shop work your
- 00:00:46way up to being the highest level person
- 00:00:48you can be and just soak up as much
- 00:00:50knowledge as you possibly can and that
- 00:00:53is exactly what she did actually she
- 00:00:54wouldn't got a job at a coffee shop in
- 00:00:56our town that's where she works now and
- 00:00:58she's worked her way up to manager and
- 00:00:59it's really cool to see but that
- 00:01:01question kind of came back into my mind
- 00:01:03a couple of weeks ago and I started to
- 00:01:05think what does it take to run a coffee
- 00:01:07business you know and I think about this
- 00:01:08because I spend a lot of time in coffee
- 00:01:10shops it's where I try to do most of my
- 00:01:12work I've got my home office set up it's
- 00:01:14where I'm recording this intro right now
- 00:01:16it's where I record all my videos and
- 00:01:18where I do most of my editing but when I
- 00:01:19want to write or when I want to read or
- 00:01:21research I try to get out and those are
- 00:01:23the places I usually end up so I was
- 00:01:26sitting in one of my favorite coffee
- 00:01:27shops the couple weeks ago and and I
- 00:01:30just got to thinking about this question
- 00:01:31again what does it take to run a coffee
- 00:01:32shop this is actually a pretty
- 00:01:34interesting question it's you know it's
- 00:01:35a product that has pretty low margins
- 00:01:39compared to the kind of stuff that I
- 00:01:40quote unquote sell I don't really sell
- 00:01:42anything but I you know I'm not having
- 00:01:43to buy products and then try to make
- 00:01:45like a little tiny bit of profit off of
- 00:01:47each sale so I just got to thinking like
- 00:01:49this sounds like a pretty challenging
- 00:01:50business to run I would love to
- 00:01:53understand how it's done so I tried to
- 00:01:56think of people that I could interview
- 00:01:57and I remembered my girlfriend and I had
- 00:01:59taken a trip to St Louis to go to City
- 00:02:01Museum which is an amazing place it's
- 00:02:04like not a museum it's like a crazy
- 00:02:05playground that people of all ages can
- 00:02:07go to and like everything there is made
- 00:02:10out of metal and like sculpted out of
- 00:02:12crazy recycled stuff and it's probably
- 00:02:15my favorite place on Earth as a person
- 00:02:17who loves to climb on stuff and do
- 00:02:19parkour and all that kind of crazy stuff
- 00:02:21like I I absolutely loved it but when we
- 00:02:23were there we went into a place called
- 00:02:25Park Avenue coffee because Anna and I
- 00:02:27both have to do our daily reading and we
- 00:02:30did not put our reading goals on hold
- 00:02:31because of the vacation so we found a
- 00:02:33coffee shop to sit in and I remember
- 00:02:35thinking like this coffee is some of the
- 00:02:37best coffee I have ever had so when I
- 00:02:40got this question in my mind a couple of
- 00:02:42weeks later I thought back to that
- 00:02:43coffee shop and I was like you know what
- 00:02:45I'm going to email the owner and I'm
- 00:02:46going to ask if he'd like to come on the
- 00:02:48show and talk about what it takes to
- 00:02:50build and run a coffee shop and that is
- 00:02:52exactly what this episode is it's an
- 00:02:54interview with Dale shy who is the owner
- 00:02:57of Park Avenue coffee in St Louis
- 00:02:58Missouri now Park avue coffee is
- 00:03:00actually now four coffee shops a
- 00:03:02roasting facility and an entirely
- 00:03:04separate baking facility that provides
- 00:03:06lots of baked goods for all of their
- 00:03:08coffee shops so Dale is running a pretty
- 00:03:10big operation at this point but it
- 00:03:12started out with one coffee shop 10
- 00:03:14years ago so in this conversation you're
- 00:03:16going to get to figure out how he got
- 00:03:18started how he built the business what
- 00:03:20his core ideals and principles are and
- 00:03:23what has enabled his business to be
- 00:03:24successful for the last decade I had
- 00:03:27such a good time talking with him and I
- 00:03:29got to say the lessons that Dale shared
- 00:03:31from what he's learned running his own
- 00:03:33business don't apply just to coffee like
- 00:03:35we talk a little bit about you know
- 00:03:37where to he buys his coffee how he
- 00:03:38roasts it all that kind of stuff but for
- 00:03:40the most part what he shared with me
- 00:03:42were principles that taught him how to
- 00:03:44run a good business and he's actually
- 00:03:46got experience running different types
- 00:03:47of businesses coffee isn't the only
- 00:03:49thing he's ever done so if you have any
- 00:03:51Ambitions of running your own business
- 00:03:53someday or if you just want to learn
- 00:03:54some of the principles that your future
- 00:03:56or current employer are hopefully using
- 00:03:58in the operation of Their Own business
- 00:04:00which should hopefully help you become a
- 00:04:01better employee and gain more trust and
- 00:04:04maybe even get promoted sooner then I
- 00:04:06think you're going to like this episode
- 00:04:07a lot it's pretty high energy and I
- 00:04:10really enjoyed it so that's all I've got
- 00:04:12for this intro if you want to find the
- 00:04:13show notes they are over at cig
- 00:04:15podcast.com find the episode 114 link on
- 00:04:19that page and you can find links to
- 00:04:20everything we mentioned in the episode
- 00:04:22along with ways to rate and review the
- 00:04:24podcast on iTunes if you would like to
- 00:04:25show your support for the show so check
- 00:04:27those out if you're curious and let's
- 00:04:29get into into the
- 00:04:33[Music]
- 00:04:35interview Dale welcome to the show wow
- 00:04:38thanks for having me yeah for sure so I
- 00:04:40I just got to tell you up front I went
- 00:04:42into your downtown coffee shop in St
- 00:04:44Louis when I was there to visit the city
- 00:04:46museum which is now my favorite place in
- 00:04:48the world it's a very cool place yes oh
- 00:04:51my gosh it is I got a latte and it was
- 00:04:53like my favorite one I've ever had oh
- 00:04:55wow awes yeah my compliments to you and
- 00:04:59I remember remember I was sitting there
- 00:05:00and I remembered I had gotten a question
- 00:05:02from a friend of mine in college and she
- 00:05:04was like I want to start my own coffee
- 00:05:06shop when I graduate how do I do that
- 00:05:09and I was like I have no idea how to do
- 00:05:11that but I would imagine that for any
- 00:05:13business the best way to go about it
- 00:05:14would be to go get a job of a coffee
- 00:05:17shop try to like become the right-hand
- 00:05:19man or woman and then learn all you can
- 00:05:22I think that's a great idea
- 00:05:23unfortunately I was not that smart when
- 00:05:25I got in the Cofe but I think that would
- 00:05:27be a great plan and next time I decide
- 00:05:29to change careers midlife I'll uh I'll
- 00:05:31take that into consideration yeah well
- 00:05:33even though you didn't do that you're
- 00:05:35now running what is it four coffee shops
- 00:05:38yeah we have four shops here in the city
- 00:05:39of St Louis yes cool so I kind of ran
- 00:05:41through this in the intro but maybe I
- 00:05:42could just ask you to kind of give a a
- 00:05:44big Grand overview of what your business
- 00:05:46is now because it's not just coffee at
- 00:05:48this point right right we actually
- 00:05:49started out with a single coffee shop in
- 00:05:51a small neighborhood here in St Louis
- 00:05:52within the city limits but it's a small
- 00:05:54neighborhood within the city called
- 00:05:56Lafayette Square uh it's a very nice
- 00:05:58little neighborhood a bunch of Victorian
- 00:06:00three-story homes very very old part of
- 00:06:03St Louis great architecture just a
- 00:06:05really cool walking community and we
- 00:06:08started out there just about 10 years
- 00:06:09ago actually and it was little bitty 900
- 00:06:12square foot very very small quaint
- 00:06:14little coffee shop and it just started
- 00:06:15out to be that and a friend of mine
- 00:06:17actually had opened that shop about two
- 00:06:19years earlier and I absolutely fell in
- 00:06:21love with the whole thing it was the
- 00:06:23people and you build relationships and
- 00:06:25you get to know one another and it's
- 00:06:26just a very people and a very
- 00:06:28relationship based business business and
- 00:06:30before that I was in it for 20 years and
- 00:06:32I was able to build relationships with
- 00:06:34my customers but the downside was is I
- 00:06:35had to fix their computer and then I
- 00:06:38relationship and when I helped this
- 00:06:40friend of mine actually when she opened
- 00:06:41the shop of course I came from an IT
- 00:06:43background I helped her with her
- 00:06:44internal internet her wireless internet
- 00:06:46for her customers and her internal
- 00:06:48Network I helped her mom with QuickBooks
- 00:06:50and some different things and so I
- 00:06:51really helped her out to get the
- 00:06:52business started on the it and the
- 00:06:54technology side of things but really
- 00:06:56fell in love with the whole coffee
- 00:06:57aspect at that time I was very much in
- 00:06:59coffee snob and would only you know
- 00:07:00would only drink Starbucks coffee
- 00:07:02because that was the best we could get
- 00:07:03here in St Louis at the time or I
- 00:07:05thought so anyway so the long story
- 00:07:07short is two years later I had said
- 00:07:09something to her at her grand opening
- 00:07:11actually and I said you know what if you
- 00:07:12ever want to sell this place I just have
- 00:07:13fallen in love with the whole concept
- 00:07:15it's a great little place it's Super C
- 00:07:17you know really quaint and cozy and she
- 00:07:19did a really nice job on the build out I
- 00:07:21said if you ever want to sell the place
- 00:07:22let me know so two years goes by and she
- 00:07:24calls me and she says hey you know I'm
- 00:07:26pregnant my husband's going to go back
- 00:07:28to school and get his doctorate and
- 00:07:30she's like you know now it's just not a
- 00:07:31good time for me to own the coffee shop
- 00:07:32do you want to buy it remember you
- 00:07:33saying that I'm like well yeah I do
- 00:07:35remember saying that but I don't think
- 00:07:37so you know that I think that that
- 00:07:38moment has passed uh and so so I said
- 00:07:42you know give me a couple of days I'll
- 00:07:43I'll consider it but you know I don't
- 00:07:44really think it's the right time so two
- 00:07:46days later it goes by I'm going to call
- 00:07:47her back full intentions and saying you
- 00:07:49know what I'm not really interested and
- 00:07:50my sister calls me who had 20 years
- 00:07:53Domino's Pizza experience so she had
- 00:07:56left her job and decided that she'd been
- 00:07:58in pizza for 20 years she just couldn't
- 00:07:59do it anymore and she wanted out and so
- 00:08:01I said do you want to run a coffee shop
- 00:08:03so that's kind of how the whole thing
- 00:08:04started so the deal was I was going to
- 00:08:06own the coffee shop I was going to keep
- 00:08:08my day job she was going to manage the
- 00:08:09coffee shop it'd be kind of fun to own a
- 00:08:11coffee shop I love good coffee it's a
- 00:08:13great environment it'd be great so that
- 00:08:15was a great concept until when it became
- 00:08:19managed very well it became very busy
- 00:08:21and it was a lot of work and more than
- 00:08:22she could handle and at that time we had
- 00:08:24two part-time people and one full-time
- 00:08:25person and her it was open seven days a
- 00:08:28week so I was working there as well as
- 00:08:30my full-time job and and it was just I
- 00:08:32was working 150 hours a week trying to
- 00:08:35keep all these balls in the air and it
- 00:08:36just wasn't working out so I ended up
- 00:08:38long story short six months later I
- 00:08:39ended up giving up my real job to do
- 00:08:41this full-time and that was in 2006 wow
- 00:08:44so the initial shop was called Lafayette
- 00:08:46Square wasn't called Park Avenue at all
- 00:08:47no the original shop that she opened was
- 00:08:49called perk on the park okay right on
- 00:08:53Lafayette Square Lafayette Square is the
- 00:08:54neighborhood that it's located yeah and
- 00:08:56there's this kind of there's a park kind
- 00:08:58of cat cor to it right if I remember
- 00:08:59correctly that's correct yeah Lafayette
- 00:09:01Park is caddy corner to that location
- 00:09:03right it's right across from the park
- 00:09:04okay yeah cuz I I had to stop by to get
- 00:09:06a lot to on the way home and the
- 00:09:08Lafayette location was closer to where
- 00:09:09we were staying oh nice the oh my gosh
- 00:09:12St Louis's neighborhoods are just
- 00:09:14beautiful you know what I don't think we
- 00:09:16realize how lucky we have it here until
- 00:09:18you go to a newer city is an old old old
- 00:09:21city we just turned 250 years old so I
- 00:09:24guess we're 252 years old now so it's an
- 00:09:26old old city so the architecture we have
- 00:09:28is just amazing yeah and you go to newer
- 00:09:30cities and it's like they're so boring
- 00:09:32the architect is so architecture is so
- 00:09:34boring because you don't have all that
- 00:09:35ornate detail and yeah it's a it's a
- 00:09:37pretty amazing City when it comes if you
- 00:09:39like architecture St Louis is a great
- 00:09:41place to come and check out architecture
- 00:09:42for sure yeah I remember I went to hobok
- 00:09:45in New Jersey because my I've got
- 00:09:46another podcast and my co-host lives
- 00:09:48there and I'm from De Moine so it's like
- 00:09:51it was just kind of mind-blowing seeing
- 00:09:52all this architecture and then I go to
- 00:09:53St Louis and I'm like this is similar
- 00:09:57right you know and like in De Moine it's
- 00:09:59got you know one or cool two little
- 00:10:00neighborhoods but for the most part it's
- 00:10:02it's newer it's not right quite as
- 00:10:04storied so I didn't know that you had
- 00:10:07bought the coffee shop from someone else
- 00:10:09that's actually kind of a cool
- 00:10:10development and I didn't know you were
- 00:10:11in it so it's actually kind of cool that
- 00:10:12you took this entire like 180 from your
- 00:10:15original career to do something else
- 00:10:17well and the thing was the coffee shop
- 00:10:18though it was a beautiful place it was
- 00:10:21it wasn't managed the best as it could
- 00:10:22have been it was kind of a hobby for
- 00:10:24this gal and she didn't really have to
- 00:10:26work and so it was kind of a hobby for
- 00:10:28her and so they got slow she would just
- 00:10:30leave or she didn't want to open that
- 00:10:32day she just wouldn't open so it's
- 00:10:33really really poorly baged and she'll be
- 00:10:35the first get that it really wasn't a
- 00:10:37good fit it was really it was really
- 00:10:39just kind of a place for her to hang out
- 00:10:40and she thought oh it'd be cool to own a
- 00:10:41coffee shop you know it'd be fun to hang
- 00:10:43out and drink coffee all day but you
- 00:10:44know you know the reality of it is is
- 00:10:47you think oh it's just a little coffee
- 00:10:48shop it's going to be easy to take care
- 00:10:49of but you know you're there's a lot
- 00:10:51when you're dealing with you know 12
- 00:10:52hours 13 hours a day that you're open uh
- 00:10:55or 15 hours a day now we're open 15
- 00:10:57hours a day in that location and dealing
- 00:10:59with Staffing and you're dealing with
- 00:11:00ordering and you're dealing with
- 00:11:01customers and you're dealing with you
- 00:11:02know the business side of things and
- 00:11:04taxes and paperwork and bills and
- 00:11:06invoices and all that stuff it yeah it's
- 00:11:09a lot of work and you wouldn't think a
- 00:11:10little coffee shop would be that much
- 00:11:12work but if you want to do it well you
- 00:11:14know anything that you do well takes
- 00:11:15time takes a lot of effort you know the
- 00:11:17premise that I went into it with knowing
- 00:11:19where it had been and where it was going
- 00:11:20to intentionally intentionally we
- 00:11:22changed the name we rebranded we
- 00:11:24revamped the menu we revamped the coffee
- 00:11:26we were using everything at that time to
- 00:11:28make it very obviously that it was
- 00:11:30different the biggest thing I went into
- 00:11:32that was with really with one premise is
- 00:11:34that you know what it's all about
- 00:11:35customer service if we take care of the
- 00:11:37customer the customer will take care of
- 00:11:39our staff our staff will take care of
- 00:11:42our customers and our customers will
- 00:11:43come back and take care of the company
- 00:11:44so if we take care of our customers
- 00:11:45really that's that's really the just of
- 00:11:47what it is you know people want to come
- 00:11:49in and get a consistent quality drink
- 00:11:51they want to come in and get the same
- 00:11:52service that they expect every time they
- 00:11:53come in and as long as you do that
- 00:11:55people will come back it's pretty simple
- 00:11:57premise I mean it's work to do that but
- 00:11:59that's really the simple premise behind
- 00:12:00it yeah yeah I read so I read a couple
- 00:12:03of Articles just out of curiosity before
- 00:12:04I decided to reach out to you about kind
- 00:12:06of like the most important aspects of
- 00:12:08running a coffee shop and article after
- 00:12:11article was like coffee is not a food
- 00:12:14business it's a people business
- 00:12:15absolutely we just happen to sell a
- 00:12:17commodity called coffee absolutely
- 00:12:18correct and then I think the other tip
- 00:12:20was like you have to be number one
- 00:12:24obsessed with coffee and like the person
- 00:12:26who's always going after the god shot of
- 00:12:27espresso and all that and you have to be
- 00:12:30in there Brewing it yourself you can't
- 00:12:32just hire someone to do it for you so
- 00:12:35what I figured is like since your guys's
- 00:12:36coffee is so good my kind of initial
- 00:12:38conception before I ever talking to you
- 00:12:40was like all right Dale must have been
- 00:12:42busting his butt in the first coffee
- 00:12:43shop before the next ones came about but
- 00:12:45now I'm hearing that you actually had a
- 00:12:47partner to start this out with how did
- 00:12:49it start out because your sister was
- 00:12:51working at a pizza place was she also
- 00:12:52like a coffee fici and a before getting
- 00:12:54into this no her initial her initial
- 00:12:57response to me was I can't do that I
- 00:12:58don't even drink coffee and I I said and
- 00:13:01she didn't at the time now she does but
- 00:13:03she didn't at the time okay and I said
- 00:13:05you know what it's no different we'll
- 00:13:06take the little pepperonis out we'll put
- 00:13:08little brown beans in it's the same
- 00:13:10thing you're dealing with people you're
- 00:13:12dealing with Staffing you're dealing
- 00:13:13with customer service you're dealing
- 00:13:15with ordering you're dealing with
- 00:13:16scheduling you're dealing with food cost
- 00:13:18and labor cost me it's the same exact
- 00:13:20business and so in that aspect of
- 00:13:22running the business side of the
- 00:13:24business it is the same it is a food
- 00:13:26business in that aspect when it comes to
- 00:13:28the actual coffee business it's
- 00:13:30definitely about relationships it's
- 00:13:32definitely about people now we have a
- 00:13:34little tagline our tagline is good
- 00:13:36people good coffee and good gooey
- 00:13:38buttercake which we'll get into the
- 00:13:39gooey buttercake thing in a moment but
- 00:13:41so it's good people is first and that's
- 00:13:43absolutely 100% intentional it's all
- 00:13:45about people and you know you said just
- 00:13:47a second ago that I must be there doing
- 00:13:49all these shots myself because it was so
- 00:13:51perfect but obviously the day that you
- 00:13:52were in I wasn't there and that all goes
- 00:13:54back to you know we opened in August 1st
- 00:13:57of 2006 we rebranded that started from
- 00:13:59scratch opened that store up and I
- 00:14:02actually had an interview that day that
- 00:14:04we opened by the little neighborhood
- 00:14:05local paper and I said that I have very
- 00:14:08high standards in the quality of service
- 00:14:10that we provide our customers and even
- 00:14:13higher standard on the quality of
- 00:14:15products that we serve and to do that we
- 00:14:18have to have the right people in place
- 00:14:21yeah that's exactly what it is it's all
- 00:14:23about people but both directions it's
- 00:14:25all about people our customers but it's
- 00:14:26all about people and Staffing and having
- 00:14:28the right people developing our staff
- 00:14:30giving them the tools to succeed make
- 00:14:33sure you put the people in the right
- 00:14:34place so you know some of our employees
- 00:14:36do better under high pressure fast-paced
- 00:14:38they work at the faster paced cafes
- 00:14:41people that may do better under a little
- 00:14:42bit lower you know more of a steady flow
- 00:14:44of traffic work in locations like that
- 00:14:45so I think it's important you put the
- 00:14:47right people in place and each person
- 00:14:49may be a different place for them but
- 00:14:51put them in the right place to succeed
- 00:14:52give them the tools to succeed give them
- 00:14:54the training to succeed and people can
- 00:14:56do this I don't have to pull every shot
- 00:14:57of apress and obviously with stores and
- 00:14:59and serving a thousand customers a day
- 00:15:02now there's no way I can do all that
- 00:15:03myself we have to have the right people
- 00:15:05in place to do that yeah it's that's
- 00:15:07totally impossible to do it all yourself
- 00:15:09definitely agree with the the whole
- 00:15:11importance of putting people where they
- 00:15:12fit best I remember I got a job at
- 00:15:14Target when I was in high school and
- 00:15:16they put me as like a sample guy right
- 00:15:19where I just like stood in the aisle and
- 00:15:21did almost nothing for like 90% of my
- 00:15:24shift and I was horrible and then I was
- 00:15:26like you need to put me somewhere where
- 00:15:27I work harder and they put me in like
- 00:15:29the most busiest fast food crazy 10
- 00:15:32balls in the air kind of thing at once
- 00:15:33and I was like this is perfect yeah
- 00:15:35exact my element so other people that
- 00:15:37would just have a meltdown in that
- 00:15:38situation like give me that little
- 00:15:39sample job I'm good with that you know
- 00:15:42it is I think people you know we can't
- 00:15:43all be the same what a boring places
- 00:15:45would be if we were all the same so I
- 00:15:46think right I think it's important to do
- 00:15:47that for sure yeah so did you have any
- 00:15:50prior business experience before this or
- 00:15:52was your it job like self-employed or
- 00:15:54was it for someone else so yes I had
- 00:15:56prior business experience I actually
- 00:15:59owned a business when I was 21 years old
- 00:16:01that failed miserably and completely
- 00:16:04this is this is going to crack you up
- 00:16:05but I actually owned a transmission
- 00:16:07repair shop really completely unrelated
- 00:16:10yeah I've had a lot of careers in my
- 00:16:12life and one of those careers was I was
- 00:16:14a certified ASC Certified master
- 00:16:16technician and that was just one of the
- 00:16:18things I've done in life but yeah I was
- 00:16:20I was 21 years old and I I learned a lot
- 00:16:22from that business and I realized at
- 00:16:24that time that what I really loved about
- 00:16:26business at that point was the whole
- 00:16:28whole what's new and exciting and
- 00:16:30different you know I'm I'm you know they
- 00:16:33there's different people in different
- 00:16:34perspectives in business and some people
- 00:16:35are like the entrepreneur that's like
- 00:16:37bigger better faster smarter and then
- 00:16:39other people are the manager who they
- 00:16:41want to do the same thing today that
- 00:16:42they did yesterday and the same thing
- 00:16:43tomorrow that they did today and nothing
- 00:16:45changes and everything's within the
- 00:16:46little square box and as long as they
- 00:16:48stay within their little comfort zone
- 00:16:49they're good you know and then there's
- 00:16:50people who just want to do the work you
- 00:16:52know I just want to make lattes I don't
- 00:16:53want to do anything else I don't want to
- 00:16:55unlock the door I don't want to be
- 00:16:56responsible for anything I want to make
- 00:16:58lattes and so you've got the technician
- 00:17:00who wants to do that you got the manager
- 00:17:01who does the day-to-day stuff and does
- 00:17:02the same thing over and over and over
- 00:17:04again and then they have people like me
- 00:17:05who you know being the entrepreneur is I
- 00:17:07don't like day-to-day stuff I get bored
- 00:17:10with day-to-day stuff doing the same
- 00:17:11thing every day over and over and over
- 00:17:13again is not fulfilling to me at all and
- 00:17:15so my first business failed because
- 00:17:18after I got it set up and after I got it
- 00:17:19started and I started this place from
- 00:17:20scratch and I was 21 years old and it
- 00:17:23was successful and profitable and you
- 00:17:25know I was a 20-year-old driving a new
- 00:17:28Mustang invertible I mean we were doing
- 00:17:29great and then when we got open and
- 00:17:32everything was running smoothly I got
- 00:17:33bored and I was just around because it
- 00:17:35wasn't it wasn't fun anymore at that
- 00:17:37point so I learned in this one that the
- 00:17:39day-to-day stuff is not my trick and
- 00:17:41what my sister who would was in a
- 00:17:43franchise concept for 20 years doing the
- 00:17:45same thing over and over and over again
- 00:17:47is exactly what she does and does very
- 00:17:50well what she doesn't do well with is
- 00:17:52change and so that was a challenge
- 00:17:54obviously when I wanted to make changes
- 00:17:56and make things better but the bottom
- 00:17:57line is is I knew I was wasn't the guy
- 00:17:59to do the day-to-day stuff and that's
- 00:18:01made the difference between the first
- 00:18:02business which I failed miserably in and
- 00:18:04this business is understanding you have
- 00:18:07to hire people for the stuff that you
- 00:18:10don't want to do or can't do or it's not
- 00:18:11your your gift right and if you do that
- 00:18:15you can succeed but if you have to do
- 00:18:16stuff that you hate you're just not
- 00:18:17going to do it or you're not gonna do it
- 00:18:19very well so is that part of the reason
- 00:18:21that it's expanded so much because
- 00:18:23you're constantly looking for ways to do
- 00:18:24something different I think one thing
- 00:18:27that I've told business people in the
- 00:18:29past is I think a lot of people get a
- 00:18:30business model or a business plan in
- 00:18:33their head and I think they do some
- 00:18:35things very well where they put their
- 00:18:37nose to the grindstone they put their
- 00:18:38head down and they go for that goal and
- 00:18:40that goal is everything to them and it's
- 00:18:42end all be all and that's what they have
- 00:18:43to do and I think some people Miss
- 00:18:46opportunities by doing that so I think
- 00:18:49yet though I think there's a lot of
- 00:18:50value in yes setting a goal and working
- 00:18:52you know adamantly to that goal I think
- 00:18:54is important but I also think sometimes
- 00:18:56you have to make sure you're looking up
- 00:18:58in front of you to see where you're
- 00:18:59going to see if opportunities present
- 00:19:01themselves and so with that said you
- 00:19:03know our second location so I said
- 00:19:06something earlier about gooey buttercake
- 00:19:07and gooey buttercake is this St Louis
- 00:19:10dessert it's it was actually made by
- 00:19:12mistake in the early 1940s somebody was
- 00:19:14making a deep buttercake similar to a
- 00:19:17pound cake they reversed the flour and
- 00:19:19the sugar ingredients so way too much
- 00:19:21sugar and way too little flour the cake
- 00:19:24didn't rise properly so it stayed really
- 00:19:25low in the pan but it had so much sugar
- 00:19:28in it kind of caramelized around the
- 00:19:29edges and on the crust so it kind of
- 00:19:31made this lemon bar kind of thing so you
- 00:19:34had a crust on around the edges and on
- 00:19:36the on the bottom and then it was like
- 00:19:37this gooey Center okay so it his wife
- 00:19:40later that day you know they obviously
- 00:19:42realized they made a mistake and they
- 00:19:43remade the Deep butter cake that they
- 00:19:45were making and later that day his wife
- 00:19:46walks back into the kitchen and tastes
- 00:19:49it and says you know what it's really
- 00:19:51good but it's awfully gooey and it was
- 00:19:54called a deep buttercake and so at that
- 00:19:56time they pegged it a gooey buttercake
- 00:19:59so it's very much a St Louis unique St
- 00:20:01Louis dessert you won't find it many
- 00:20:03places outside of St Louis and so
- 00:20:06growing up in St Louis it was a staple
- 00:20:08in our life you know my grandparents
- 00:20:10made it my mother made it growing up and
- 00:20:12so we decided that we were a local
- 00:20:14coffee shop and what's more local to St
- 00:20:15Louis than gooey buttercake and we
- 00:20:16should do local stuff so we started
- 00:20:18making my mom's traditional gooey
- 00:20:20buttercake well and I say we it really
- 00:20:22wasn't we my sister started making my
- 00:20:24mom's traditional buttercake and so
- 00:20:26we actually started doing this go cake
- 00:20:29and it was like a phenomenon I mean
- 00:20:31everyone in St Louis knew where it was
- 00:20:32there was some companies here in St
- 00:20:33Louis doing it but not a lot and so we
- 00:20:37started out with doing my mom's
- 00:20:38traditional gooey buttercake and ended
- 00:20:40up doing another flavor for a customer
- 00:20:42and then before you knew it we had 75
- 00:20:45different flavors of this specialty
- 00:20:47dessert called goey so we were baking
- 00:20:49all that out of the original coffee shop
- 00:20:52my sister was baking all of that with by
- 00:20:54herself and then we got busier she had
- 00:20:56one staff person helping her and we
- 00:20:57would do coffee baking coffee shop
- 00:20:59baking until lunchtime and then we would
- 00:21:01start baking our gooey butter cakes from
- 00:21:02noon until 10 p.m. so we were running a
- 00:21:05second shift out of the coffee shop
- 00:21:07doing the gooey buttercake and so it
- 00:21:08wasn't too long after that we decided we
- 00:21:10couldn't do that we basically ran out of
- 00:21:12space on the upstairs of the coffee shop
- 00:21:14so we built a lower level production
- 00:21:16room so we were carrying all the
- 00:21:18ingredients downstairs to make the cakes
- 00:21:20and then carry all the ingredients the
- 00:21:22cakes upstairs to bake and then
- 00:21:24downstairs to cool and package and then
- 00:21:26back upstairs to deliver so it wasn't
- 00:21:28long before we really ran out of space
- 00:21:30there and we actually opened a bakery
- 00:21:32and the baking company is called an and
- 00:21:35Allen which happens to be my sister and
- 00:21:37my's middle name so it's an Ann and then
- 00:21:40Allen Al Len baking is a bakery that we
- 00:21:44own so that that Bakery does gooey
- 00:21:46buttercake and it also bakes for some of
- 00:21:49our for all of our stores and then a lot
- 00:21:51of our products that we get for our
- 00:21:53coffee shops so like our cookie dough
- 00:21:54and some of our muffin batters and our
- 00:21:56scone batters and all that stuff we make
- 00:21:59from our Baking Company deliver
- 00:22:01refrigerated to each one of our coffee
- 00:22:02shops and then they bake them fresh in
- 00:22:04each store that's actually really cool
- 00:22:06that you guys are able to from scratch
- 00:22:08make all of your baked goods in an
- 00:22:11operation that has multiple stores
- 00:22:12because I would imagine that a lot can't
- 00:22:14do that well and I think it was it's
- 00:22:17kind of an interesting the gooey
- 00:22:18buttercake was the kind of that conduit
- 00:22:20that helped us get busy enough we at
- 00:22:23that time when we were baking in in the
- 00:22:24basement of our first first coffee shop
- 00:22:26we were baking for a grocery store chain
- 00:22:28that had five stores here in St Louis we
- 00:22:31were also baking for a coffee shop chain
- 00:22:32who had four units here in St Louis
- 00:22:35besides our own coffee shop so we were
- 00:22:36basically baking for 10 companies out of
- 00:22:39the basement of our little coffee shop
- 00:22:40and so we were lucky enough to have that
- 00:22:43business to be able to afford to move
- 00:22:45into a baking Commissary because that's
- 00:22:47the challenge is you're having another
- 00:22:49business address with another set of
- 00:22:51rent and electric and gas and utilities
- 00:22:54and Staffing and labor and all of that
- 00:22:56without having any retail business there
- 00:22:58yeah so it is a challenge so we had the
- 00:23:00ability since the gooey butter cake had
- 00:23:02kind of been taken off and we had
- 00:23:03started shipping our gooey buttercake as
- 00:23:05well as providing it for other shops
- 00:23:07here in St Louis and grocery stores we
- 00:23:08had enough clientele to open a bakery so
- 00:23:11it was in January of 2009 that we opened
- 00:23:13that baking operation and then uh as far
- 00:23:16as the expansion and I know it took me a
- 00:23:17minute to get to that point but so it
- 00:23:19was in 2010 that we were approached and
- 00:23:22being you know open to Opportunities we
- 00:23:24were not looking to go downtown but this
- 00:23:26company had called it had a space
- 00:23:27downtown and wanted to know if we were
- 00:23:29interested in it and we were definitely
- 00:23:31interested in going downtown and I think
- 00:23:33at that point we had been on Food
- 00:23:34Network for our guey buttercake and so
- 00:23:36it's we had gotten some national
- 00:23:37exposure so people came into St Louis
- 00:23:39looking for this and we were like two
- 00:23:42miles out of downtown so a lot of people
- 00:23:44travel for business they don't have a
- 00:23:45rental car and St Louis is not the best
- 00:23:48mass transit company you know City out
- 00:23:50there in the country yeah so it's not
- 00:23:52easy to get around if you know you
- 00:23:53almost have to have a car in St Louis if
- 00:23:55you're here and you know Uber is now
- 00:23:57here but that's just as real recent
- 00:23:58thing too and and taxis aren't on every
- 00:24:00corner like you'd see in a big major
- 00:24:01city unfortunately so we were too far
- 00:24:03from downtown to really pull much
- 00:24:05traffic from people who were traveling
- 00:24:07so downtown location would have been
- 00:24:08perfect for us and so though we weren't
- 00:24:10necessarily looking for it the
- 00:24:11opportunity arose the guy contacted us
- 00:24:13and said would you like to do this and
- 00:24:15I'm like you know we just opened this
- 00:24:16bacing operation we're not really not
- 00:24:17ready and you know we had a great
- 00:24:19reputation in the location that we were
- 00:24:21at and they really wanted us downtown
- 00:24:23and they ended up really really helping
- 00:24:26us out as far as like buildout costs and
- 00:24:28you know there was already an existing
- 00:24:30shop there that had failed so there was
- 00:24:31some equipment left behind and so we
- 00:24:33basically were able to go in and Rebrand
- 00:24:34it repaint it and open it within about
- 00:24:37two months it was a great opportunity
- 00:24:39and downtown has been phenomenal as you
- 00:24:41know if you went to our downtown store
- 00:24:42we're only about two blocks block at a
- 00:24:44half in the convention center so yeah
- 00:24:45most all traffic downtown is you know in
- 00:24:48for business or in for a convention and
- 00:24:49we're so close to the convention center
- 00:24:50so it's brings a ton of business to us
- 00:24:52for sure I don't even think I looked up
- 00:24:55your company on Yelp or anything I just
- 00:24:57we were walking from from the arch to uh
- 00:25:00the City Museum and I was like we need a
- 00:25:02coffee shop to get our reading done and
- 00:25:04oh there's one yeah exactly yeah so so
- 00:25:07yeah it's a great area I think it's one
- 00:25:09it's the only coffee shop in downtown St
- 00:25:11Louis that doesn't serve food so it's
- 00:25:14actually a place that you can go and
- 00:25:16catch up on your reading or get on your
- 00:25:17laptop and hang out and not feel guilty
- 00:25:19for taking a table when they're trying
- 00:25:20to serve lunch service and you know what
- 00:25:22I kind of noticed that because it seems
- 00:25:24like a lot of the places here in De
- 00:25:26Moine have more of like a sit down Vibe
- 00:25:28and then a lot of the places I looked up
- 00:25:29in St Louis were almost like restaurants
- 00:25:33maybe and maybe I just selected it's a
- 00:25:35challenge you have in the coffee
- 00:25:36business pretty much anywhere you go in
- 00:25:37the country the north the Northeast is
- 00:25:39probably the Northwest excuse me is
- 00:25:41probably a little bit unique to any area
- 00:25:43in the country when it comes to coffee
- 00:25:44but anywhere else in the country most
- 00:25:46places it's tough to survive on coffee
- 00:25:48alone because there's parts of the day
- 00:25:50that people don't buy coffee right I
- 00:25:52mean if you're out at lunch you're
- 00:25:54probably not buying coffee you're going
- 00:25:55to grab something for lunch and and eat
- 00:25:56and go back to work or whatever so a lot
- 00:25:59of places you have a real dead time in
- 00:26:02coffee in the in the afternoon you know
- 00:26:04early afternoon and lunchtime and then
- 00:26:05evening time is really bad around dinner
- 00:26:07time or whatever the one thing that
- 00:26:09allowed us not to serve lunch and we
- 00:26:11really didn't want to serve lunch going
- 00:26:12into this it's just a lot more I mean
- 00:26:15people think oh he just add a sandwich
- 00:26:16well then you've got you know we got to
- 00:26:17get bread and you got to keep bread
- 00:26:18fresh and then you've got to get meat
- 00:26:20and you got to make sure you go through
- 00:26:20it before it goes bad and then you know
- 00:26:22you've got you've got more loss you've
- 00:26:24got more waste and you've got more
- 00:26:25spoilage and it's just a a big big big
- 00:26:27deal but most places have to have that
- 00:26:30little extra 15 or 20% of sales to
- 00:26:33really make ends meet because it is
- 00:26:35tough to make it on coffee loan you know
- 00:26:37people think that coffee's four bucks a
- 00:26:38glass or whatever four bucks a cup is a
- 00:26:40lot of money but at the end of the day
- 00:26:42if we walk away with
- 00:26:4410% of the cost of your coffee so if you
- 00:26:47spend $4.50 if we walk away with 45
- 00:26:50cents that's pretty good 10 to 15%
- 00:26:52margin is is pretty typical in this
- 00:26:54business so it takes a ridiculous amount
- 00:26:56of volume to be to pay your staff and
- 00:26:59make sure your equipment continues to
- 00:27:01run and you can pay your rent and those
- 00:27:02sorts of things so so there's so most
- 00:27:05shops will do coffee because they have
- 00:27:07to and one of the things I think is a
- 00:27:08challenge and you even said that so you
- 00:27:10kind of go in and it's like you feel
- 00:27:11like you're in a restaurant and I think
- 00:27:13that's the thing is we always in all of
- 00:27:14our signs and all of our stores is we
- 00:27:16are the neighborhood coffee shop and the
- 00:27:18neighborhood coffee shop is a place you
- 00:27:20can go and meet your neighbor or meet
- 00:27:21your new neighbors or meet new people or
- 00:27:23whatever you need to do and it's not a
- 00:27:25restaurant where you have to go sit in a
- 00:27:26table with four chairs and that's your
- 00:27:28coffee shop all of our places definitely
- 00:27:30have you know comfy cozy seating and
- 00:27:33places to hang out and never pressured
- 00:27:36you to leave after an hour of Wi-Fi or
- 00:27:38any of that I mean it's truly a
- 00:27:39community space and it all goes back to
- 00:27:41it's all about people yeah exactly
- 00:27:43actually on the margin aspect I wanted
- 00:27:46to ask you because I was I was doing
- 00:27:47some research about that before I ended
- 00:27:49up reaching out to you and I think one
- 00:27:51blog post said it was like 8% margin on
- 00:27:54coffee or something and they said that
- 00:27:55was good which blew my mind I was like
- 00:27:588% margin is good on a on a product so I
- 00:28:01just like did a back of the napkin
- 00:28:03calculation like You' have to sell I
- 00:28:05think a th000 cups a day at like an
- 00:28:07average of 350 if you want to bring in
- 00:28:0910 grand and that's before you know
- 00:28:11you're keeping lights on employees all
- 00:28:13that kind of stuff yeah it's it's not
- 00:28:15nearly as as profitable as people think
- 00:28:17people think even and I think a lot of
- 00:28:18people think restaurants in general you
- 00:28:21know if you go out to dinner and spend a
- 00:28:22100 bucks you're like oh my God it was
- 00:28:23100 bucks for that dinner for four of us
- 00:28:25or whatever for two of you or whatever
- 00:28:26it was and it's like that's a lot of
- 00:28:27money but put into the consideration of
- 00:28:29what it takes you know you have to have
- 00:28:30a manager in that store and you have to
- 00:28:32have employees and you have to have
- 00:28:33equipment and stuff breaks and you know
- 00:28:35you have to get it repaired and you know
- 00:28:37the Electric's on and door open 600
- 00:28:39times a day because you got 300 people
- 00:28:40walking in and 300 people walking out so
- 00:28:42the air conditioner bill is 1,500 bucks
- 00:28:43a month you know our little bitty space
- 00:28:45in lfan square it's not uncommon I mean
- 00:28:48I think last month which was super super
- 00:28:49mild here we had a$1 thousand electric
- 00:28:51bill oh my gosh you know so it takes you
- 00:28:53know how many how many coffees does it
- 00:28:54take to get to that thousand doll so you
- 00:28:56can pay the electric bill so yeah yeah
- 00:28:58all about volume and and you know it's
- 00:29:00one thing and that's it's that's the
- 00:29:01hard part is is you have to have volume
- 00:29:04but you can't start day one with volume
- 00:29:06so it's it's a challenge and it's and
- 00:29:08any business is hard I mean and I think
- 00:29:10though I love absolutely love what we do
- 00:29:13every day I love coming to work it
- 00:29:14doesn't seem like work at all which is
- 00:29:15what I'll tell anybody who goes into
- 00:29:17business for themselves find something
- 00:29:18that you love don't try to do something
- 00:29:21because you think there's a buck to be m
- 00:29:22in it because you're going to be
- 00:29:23miserable find something that you love
- 00:29:25and figure out how to make money doing
- 00:29:26that that's that's the trick so what did
- 00:29:30you guys do uh initially to get volume
- 00:29:34when you were just just starting out
- 00:29:36well again the coffee shop that's the
- 00:29:39initial coffee shop was in a amazing
- 00:29:42neighborhood and the neighborhood that
- 00:29:44it's in is
- 00:29:46like I would I would put it up against
- 00:29:48pretty much any neighborhood in St Louis
- 00:29:50it's it's not necessarily the cheapest
- 00:29:53place to live in St Louis but it's one
- 00:29:55of the safest one of the best places to
- 00:29:57live the housing Market is very good the
- 00:29:59houses are very expensive uh it it
- 00:30:01brings a really great clientele
- 00:30:03especially for for coffee shops you know
- 00:30:05coffee shops people professionals drink
- 00:30:08coffee out you know people are lower
- 00:30:11income that's not a good demographic for
- 00:30:13coffee so the demographics of that
- 00:30:14particular neighborhood was was really
- 00:30:16really good they were super supportive
- 00:30:18of their neighborhood they got it and I
- 00:30:20say they get it like okay if the
- 00:30:21business Community is thriving property
- 00:30:24values will increase if the businesses
- 00:30:27aren't thriving and there a bunch of
- 00:30:28boarded up businesses in the
- 00:30:29neighborhood that's not good for our
- 00:30:31neighborhood and our values and they got
- 00:30:33that I mean people in our neighborhood
- 00:30:34would wear shirts that say chain
- 00:30:35restaurants with a circle and a slash
- 00:30:37through it I mean they St Louis and I
- 00:30:39and I think this is becoming more and
- 00:30:41more all over the country but I think 10
- 00:30:43years ago St Louis was huge on
- 00:30:45supporting local you know and take care
- 00:30:47of the people who can take care of you
- 00:30:48and so we're very involved in our
- 00:30:49communities we're very involved in our
- 00:30:51neighborhoods and we sponsor the you
- 00:30:53know the kids in the neighborhood and we
- 00:30:55sponsor the park and we the Arts Council
- 00:30:58that does concerts in the park we
- 00:30:59sponsor that you know and we're we're as
- 00:31:02much of a part of the community as the
- 00:31:03community is a part of us and it's a
- 00:31:05two-way street we have to be there for
- 00:31:06them because they're there for us every
- 00:31:08day when we open the door to come in and
- 00:31:09buy their coffee so right I think the
- 00:31:11neighborhood really really wanted to
- 00:31:13support that coffee shop from day one
- 00:31:15and I had done some Recon before I
- 00:31:17actually decided to buy it and I would
- 00:31:19walk I'd go up there during the day or
- 00:31:20in the evenings around dinner time when
- 00:31:22people were walking from the restaurants
- 00:31:23and I'm like hey what do you think of
- 00:31:25that coffee shop over there like it's a
- 00:31:27great place we love love it but they're
- 00:31:28never open and I heard that 20 times out
- 00:31:31of 30 people that I talked to that
- 00:31:33looked like they were neighborhoody kind
- 00:31:34of people 20 out of 30 of them said yeah
- 00:31:36the place is awesome but it's never open
- 00:31:39okay so so I'm like okay well if they
- 00:31:41think it's awesome but they stopped
- 00:31:43trying to come by because every time
- 00:31:44they come by it would be closed and
- 00:31:45they're like well we just gave up on the
- 00:31:46place but it would be great if it'd be
- 00:31:48open so I thought okay so they want
- 00:31:50something consistently and consistency
- 00:31:52and I'm like that's anybody wants
- 00:31:53consistency we want consistency in our
- 00:31:55life every day you know if it's if it's
- 00:31:57you know what we expect on traffic when
- 00:31:59we go to work what we expect from our
- 00:32:00spouse or significant other when we get
- 00:32:01home or what we expect at work we want
- 00:32:03consistency in our life so I'm like
- 00:32:04that's easy to accomplish right we can
- 00:32:06be open set hours and so it when it
- 00:32:08became managed very well and my sister
- 00:32:10did a great job managing the day-to-day
- 00:32:11stuff people started coming in and then
- 00:32:14they would tell their friends and then
- 00:32:15it was just really absolutely Grassroots
- 00:32:18and people told people and we got a
- 00:32:21little bit of press when we opened up
- 00:32:22and that helped and then we did this
- 00:32:24gooey buttercake thing and then you know
- 00:32:26three years later we on Food Network
- 00:32:28with that so that obviously helped
- 00:32:30things out and then we opened our
- 00:32:32downtown location So that obviously
- 00:32:33helped things out and then we got to a
- 00:32:35point where the the bakery did a great
- 00:32:38job supporting our coffee shops but we
- 00:32:40were buying our coffee from someone else
- 00:32:42we were buying from a local roer here in
- 00:32:44St Louis and it was great for a long
- 00:32:46time and then all of a sudden we started
- 00:32:48seeing some consistency issues and we
- 00:32:50started seeing some quality issues and
- 00:32:53and I became very very worried about
- 00:32:55that because it's like okay I'm building
- 00:32:56my livelihood and my business on this
- 00:32:58coffee and if I can't count on this
- 00:33:00coffee how am I going to count on being
- 00:33:02able to do consistency for my customers
- 00:33:04right right so long story short we
- 00:33:07decided we should start roasting our own
- 00:33:08coffee we literally had that many
- 00:33:10problems with a local rooster that we
- 00:33:11needed to do something and we need to do
- 00:33:12something pretty quickly so in January
- 00:33:16of
- 00:33:172013 we went shopping for a roster we
- 00:33:20ended up finding this great coffee roter
- 00:33:22out of a company out of Santa Rosa
- 00:33:25California it's a brand new technology
- 00:33:27it's air roast coffee and so we opened
- 00:33:29our air roasted coffee um Roasting
- 00:33:32Company in St Louis here also in the
- 00:33:34city in the neighborhood called the hill
- 00:33:36which is the Italian part of St Louis
- 00:33:38okay and we uh bought a 1950s Warehouse
- 00:33:41that was boarded up and Abandoned and we
- 00:33:44rejuvenated the whole thing and rehabed
- 00:33:47the entire space putting 200 solar
- 00:33:49panels on the roof and we're operating
- 00:33:52the most echo-friendly roasting facility
- 00:33:54in the entire Midwest today that's so
- 00:33:56cool so is the roasting facility The
- 00:33:58Roasting facility is not a coffee shop
- 00:34:00itself well it wasn't initially
- 00:34:02initially it was going to be our
- 00:34:03corporate offices it was going to be a
- 00:34:05coffee roasting facility and it was
- 00:34:07going to be a training Cafe okay uh the
- 00:34:10neighborhood demanded we put a coffee
- 00:34:12shop in and it's like well it's kind of
- 00:34:14off the beaten path and we really don't
- 00:34:16think it's a great retailing space and
- 00:34:18the neighborhood's like there's nothing
- 00:34:20here and we have like 700 homes within
- 00:34:23six blocks of us more than that maybe
- 00:34:26and so they're like you're you're gonna
- 00:34:28put a coffee shop in right so long story
- 00:34:29short our training Cafe became a full
- 00:34:31coffee shop okay so Midway through the
- 00:34:33project we had to stop and go through
- 00:34:35new permitting and new inspections and
- 00:34:38new everything so we opened our roasting
- 00:34:40facility in 1 of July in
- 00:34:432013 and then in April of 2014 we opened
- 00:34:47Our Cafe so we put a full coffee shop in
- 00:34:49here the neighborhood has been super
- 00:34:50supportive it does very very well the
- 00:34:53neighborhood is always in here it's a
- 00:34:54great space for the neighborhood even
- 00:34:56though we're off the beaten path this
- 00:34:57location does great and we do all of our
- 00:34:59roasting here for all of our stores as
- 00:35:01well as our wholesale customers and so
- 00:35:04that's how this location became about so
- 00:35:06again doesn't wasn't planned it was one
- 00:35:08of those opportunities that presented
- 00:35:09itself and we decided to seize that
- 00:35:11opportunity and move forward so was that
- 00:35:14your third location that was the third
- 00:35:16location that's right so Lafayette
- 00:35:17Square then our downtown location by the
- 00:35:18convention center and then this location
- 00:35:20in our roasting facility and you've got
- 00:35:22four now right now we have four so we
- 00:35:24weren't even open in this location for
- 00:35:26the Third location
- 00:35:28and a company contacted us for an area
- 00:35:31in St Louis called cortex and recently
- 00:35:34St Louis has been dubbed one of the best
- 00:35:36startup communities in the country
- 00:35:39really even better than like Silicon
- 00:35:40Valley and so if you want to do a
- 00:35:42podcast on startups in St Louis there's
- 00:35:44a ton of stuff there a bunch of venture
- 00:35:46capital here St Louis has a thing called
- 00:35:49Arch grants where they're giving people
- 00:35:51$50,000 and all they have to do is they
- 00:35:53have to come to St Louis to run their
- 00:35:54business we'll give you $50,000 you come
- 00:35:56to St Louis and run your business so
- 00:35:58they come to St Louis they get the money
- 00:36:00and they stay hopefully they stay in St
- 00:36:01Louis so great startup Community there's
- 00:36:04a little area by this little store that
- 00:36:06just opened up here in St Louis called
- 00:36:08Ikea just west of there is a place
- 00:36:10called cortex it started about 15 years
- 00:36:13ago as an innovation community and they
- 00:36:15opened one building and I'm not even
- 00:36:17sure if that building ever got fully
- 00:36:19occupied and it just never really went
- 00:36:20anywhere for 15 years and then the last
- 00:36:23two years things have gone nuts over
- 00:36:25there and there's been a company that's
- 00:36:27over developing that area they actually
- 00:36:29had contacted us about putting a coffee
- 00:36:31shop in this building and at the time
- 00:36:33the building had no tenants the building
- 00:36:35had nothing in it they were rehabbing
- 00:36:37this old building that was they used to
- 00:36:39do Bell telephone handsets and so it's
- 00:36:42this you know 1930s 40 Warehouse that's
- 00:36:45completely boarded up and abandoned
- 00:36:46pretty much they go in there they make
- 00:36:48it a completely lead certified building
- 00:36:50they're just getting Construction done
- 00:36:52they have one tenant committed and they
- 00:36:54want us to put a coffee shop off the
- 00:36:56beaten path in this little place that no
- 00:36:58one knows anything about and not
- 00:37:01thinking there was ever a chance in the
- 00:37:03world it would ever happen I pretty much
- 00:37:05said you know what there's just no way
- 00:37:07that that that place can support a
- 00:37:08coffee shop it's it's a block off of any
- 00:37:10road that anybody's G to ever drive by
- 00:37:12and ever see and they had made an
- 00:37:15announcement that Ikea was going to open
- 00:37:16but again still Ikea was opening in kind
- 00:37:19of a desert in St even though it was
- 00:37:20right in the middle of St Louis it still
- 00:37:22was just not a very thriving Metropolis
- 00:37:24at all in that area and long story short
- 00:37:27I just gave him a super lowball number
- 00:37:29and said you know this is the only way
- 00:37:31we can ever make it work on that space
- 00:37:33and 14 months of negotiations we were
- 00:37:36still again we started this negotiation
- 00:37:38before this this store ever opened up 14
- 00:37:41months uh in negotiations we finally
- 00:37:42made a deal and actually moved in that
- 00:37:44space by the time we moved in there
- 00:37:46which was December of this past year so
- 00:37:48just six months ago we moved in there
- 00:37:50was about 450 employees in that building
- 00:37:54and it was fully it was fully leased out
- 00:37:57and another hundred people moved into
- 00:37:59that building so right now there's
- 00:38:01Boeing in that building Washington
- 00:38:03University is in that building AB Mari
- 00:38:06which is a parent company of fleshman's
- 00:38:08yeast is in that building so they have
- 00:38:09their test kitchens in that building
- 00:38:11there's a lot of lab community in there
- 00:38:14cic which is cabridge Innovation Center
- 00:38:16has 250 startups working out of that
- 00:38:19building and then since we moved in tech
- 00:38:22shop I'm not sure if you know what tech
- 00:38:23shop is they're moving in across the
- 00:38:25street so tech shop is very similar to
- 00:38:28like you buy a gym membership you get to
- 00:38:29go in and you get to use the free
- 00:38:31weights and the treadmill and the
- 00:38:32elliptical well this is kind of like a
- 00:38:36gym membership for High-Tech toys and
- 00:38:39electronics I guess and so they have
- 00:38:41plasma cutters and sand blasters and 3D
- 00:38:44printers and C that's a thing that's a
- 00:38:47thing it's called tech shop that's
- 00:38:49amazing you pay a monthly fee like you
- 00:38:51do at the gym and you get to go in and
- 00:38:53use their CAD software and their
- 00:38:54supercomputers you can use their plasma
- 00:38:56cutters and cut things out they have
- 00:38:58water jet Cutters they have 3D printers
- 00:39:01they have these big industrial sewing
- 00:39:02machines that you can go in and dig so
- 00:39:05one of the things about that and I think
- 00:39:07they started in San Francisco is for
- 00:39:09entrepreneurs trying to come up with
- 00:39:11like prototypes and see if things will
- 00:39:13work you know they you can be a member
- 00:39:15of this thing called tech shop and you
- 00:39:17can actually go from concept to
- 00:39:19prototype and like however long you how
- 00:39:21quickly you can do it you have uses of
- 00:39:23million dooll plasma cutters just for a
- 00:39:25monthly fee and so you can go with and
- 00:39:27do whatever you know they have they have
- 00:39:29laser laser etchers that you can use
- 00:39:31they have I mean just all kinds of crazy
- 00:39:33stuff that is amazing I I remember like
- 00:39:36wanting to do wood like woodworking
- 00:39:39projects in college and I think we
- 00:39:41figured out we could take some safety
- 00:39:43class and get access to the the design
- 00:39:45colleges tools and stuff but I was like
- 00:39:47man if you're not a student at a huge
- 00:39:49university how the heck do you get
- 00:39:51access to anything that's it and that's
- 00:39:54exactly companies are and they started
- 00:39:56out like I said in Sam Frisco Silicon
- 00:39:58Valley area and they did it for
- 00:39:59entrepreneurs and and it was just a
- 00:40:01concept that some guy had an idea and it
- 00:40:03it worked and now there's I don't even
- 00:40:05know how many there are around the
- 00:40:06country six or eight of them I think wow
- 00:40:08and St Louis is getting one because
- 00:40:10again it's it's the right now it's the
- 00:40:12center of the startup community and
- 00:40:13there's a a ton of great stuff Happening
- 00:40:15Here in St Louis and so Pandora is in
- 00:40:18the building we're at Uber out of St
- 00:40:20Louis is working out of our building
- 00:40:21there Square the the mobile payment
- 00:40:24company is is in that building so it's
- 00:40:26it's really a great great building now
- 00:40:28and it's completely occupied Tech Shop
- 00:40:30is supposed to be opening up I think in
- 00:40:31the next 90 days I think by August
- 00:40:33they're supposed to be opening up so
- 00:40:34that's right across the street there's
- 00:40:36two more floors of buildings in that
- 00:40:37space and then they're working with
- 00:40:39putting in a a little boutique hotel
- 00:40:41across the street from there and a
- 00:40:43residential just just east of there
- 00:40:45there's a they're putting into a big
- 00:40:47residential Tower I mean so we really
- 00:40:49got in really ahead of the game but it's
- 00:40:52good in that particular location you
- 00:40:54know we talked about food a little bit
- 00:40:55ago one of the deals we had to do is we
- 00:40:58had to serve lunch in that in that
- 00:40:59location okay just because it was such a
- 00:41:01desert I mean there was nothing there
- 00:41:03they had to get in their car and drive a
- 00:41:04half a mile to buy a bottle of water I
- 00:41:06mean there was nothing within walking
- 00:41:08distance at all yeah and so one of the
- 00:41:10deals was we had to do lunch so we
- 00:41:12actually hired a chef have a great lunch
- 00:41:14program at that store and that store is
- 00:41:16doing fantastic it's probably our
- 00:41:18highest volume store right now and all
- 00:41:20is all is going really well there so
- 00:41:22that that new store and again it's a
- 00:41:24super Hightech uh startup community and
- 00:41:26so every one of our stores though
- 00:41:28they're all you know they're all owned
- 00:41:29by me and they're all Park Avenue
- 00:41:31coffees and they're all branded pretty
- 00:41:32much the same each location has its own
- 00:41:34personality so you were in our downtown
- 00:41:37so our first store in Lafayette Square
- 00:41:38is a very small quaint cozy you know you
- 00:41:43know a little bit darker and homey kind
- 00:41:45of feel lots of comfy cozy chairs really
- 00:41:47small and quaint that's the first store
- 00:41:49downtown is kind of like Park Avenue
- 00:41:51coffee went Urban you know it's concrete
- 00:41:54countertops 18 foot ceilings exposed
- 00:41:57concrete pillars exposed brick yeah you
- 00:42:00know so that's kind of like that that
- 00:42:02actually funny story there that is the
- 00:42:04absolute first Loft development that the
- 00:42:06city of St Louis ever approved in the
- 00:42:08city of St Louis really and that was
- 00:42:11done about 17 years ago that was built
- 00:42:14out as a coffee shop 17 years ago before
- 00:42:17it was even cool to be a coffee shop and
- 00:42:19it was in the very first Loft community
- 00:42:21in the St Louis so there's above that
- 00:42:23building there's three there's two
- 00:42:25floors of of business offices
- 00:42:27and then there's floor 3 through 11 are
- 00:42:31residential condos in that building
- 00:42:32downtown so that's kind of like Park
- 00:42:34Avenue coffee gone Urban and then our
- 00:42:37new store the new store in the roasting
- 00:42:39facility again it's a 1950s warehouse
- 00:42:42this entire build was reclaimed we have
- 00:42:44reclaimed wood out of a building here in
- 00:42:46St Louis that was torn down we have
- 00:42:48reclaimed uh light fixtures that we've
- 00:42:50pulled out of places that were being
- 00:42:52torn down we there was a Crestwood Mall
- 00:42:54here in St Louis was a a mall that was
- 00:42:56being de and we bought a bunch of stuff
- 00:42:58from there and reclaimed the front
- 00:43:00counter and so it's all fabricated stuff
- 00:43:02and our our condiment bar where you get
- 00:43:04your cream and sugar is an old clothing
- 00:43:05cart that came out of a a men's Express
- 00:43:08clothing store out of this mall that
- 00:43:10closed up so it's entirely industrial
- 00:43:13lots of the ceilings are all corrugated
- 00:43:15metal the floors are all concrete
- 00:43:18polished concrete floors that are
- 00:43:19original floors that were in the 1950s
- 00:43:21Warehouse when we bought it so this is
- 00:43:23very industrial very much matches the
- 00:43:26space and then our newest store though
- 00:43:28it's an older building it's a high-tech
- 00:43:29business incubator and so that store is
- 00:43:32digital menu boards and super high-tech
- 00:43:35espresso machine and POS system and
- 00:43:37online ordering and very high-tech and
- 00:43:39so each one kind of matches the space I
- 00:43:41think one of the things that's important
- 00:43:43to me is we don't want to be cookie
- 00:43:44cutters for sure because I think
- 00:43:45everything has its own Personality yeah
- 00:43:47but I think the cool thing about Park
- 00:43:48Avenue coffee is you get the same
- 00:43:50quality of service you get the same
- 00:43:51quality of product but these buildings
- 00:43:54were around way longer you know way
- 00:43:56before Park avue was and I feel like
- 00:43:58these buildings we should we should
- 00:44:00represent them versus them trying to
- 00:44:01represent us so let's us fit into them
- 00:44:04because they were here way longer than
- 00:44:05we were and let's make Park Avenue fit
- 00:44:07within the spaces as they are so that's
- 00:44:09kind of the theory so each one has its
- 00:44:11own little personality which is kind of
- 00:44:12nice man I really want to go see that
- 00:44:14third store now there's a tiny little
- 00:44:17Brewery in this this little town called
- 00:44:19Bond Durant which is like 20 minutes
- 00:44:21from where I live and they did the same
- 00:44:23thing it's all reclaimed they like tore
- 00:44:26up the old railroad and so there's like
- 00:44:27railroad tracks and like wood and Slots
- 00:44:29from the railroad in there making all
- 00:44:31the doors and everything it's amazing
- 00:44:33like just got this amazing rustic
- 00:44:34quality I love it yeah well and this
- 00:44:36store here we did you know it's it's a
- 00:44:39The Roasting facility is 5,000 square
- 00:44:41feet and then our baking operation is
- 00:44:43actually the next project we have this
- 00:44:45fall we're moving our baking operation
- 00:44:47into an attached joining building to our
- 00:44:50roasting operations so all of our bakon
- 00:44:52and all of our roasting will be done in
- 00:44:53the same build in the same building now
- 00:44:55so we'll have centralized delivery
- 00:44:56system systems and centralized shipping
- 00:44:58and stuff so that'll be that'll be nice
- 00:45:00Synergy for us to work together and have
- 00:45:02centralized accounting so we can have
- 00:45:03one accounting department all in one
- 00:45:05building and so that'll help us with
- 00:45:06some things but but we did most of the
- 00:45:09work in this space ourselves so we re
- 00:45:11the wood came out of a couple seven
- 00:45:14building which is a building here in St
- 00:45:15Louis the beams that came out of it the
- 00:45:17entire structure of this building was
- 00:45:19seven floors the entire structure was
- 00:45:21wood there was no steel there was no
- 00:45:23concrete every inch of this building was
- 00:45:25built with wood and so the the basement
- 00:45:28beams were 17 in square and 28 ft long
- 00:45:32oh my gosh and so we have those cut down
- 00:45:35and on one entire wall we have this
- 00:45:37whole reclaimed wood wall and the guy
- 00:45:39who reclaimed the wood said that he
- 00:45:41thinks that Wood's probably was about
- 00:45:43150 years old when it was cut down and
- 00:45:46put in that building and that building
- 00:45:48was built 107 years ago so oh my gosh
- 00:45:51somewhere around 250 years old so it's
- 00:45:53probably one of the first buildings in
- 00:45:55St Louis honestly uh were these couples
- 00:45:57buildings and there was a series of nine
- 00:45:59warehouses and most of them have been
- 00:46:01turned into other things today and you
- 00:46:03know businesses there's one that has a
- 00:46:05Weston Hotel occupies part of one of
- 00:46:07them uh there's a bunch of businesses
- 00:46:09and other ones there's some Lofts and
- 00:46:10some of the other ones but there's nine
- 00:46:11of them and and unfortunately one of
- 00:46:13them didn't make it just because it the
- 00:46:15roof had gone bad and and had gone on
- 00:46:17ill repair and the the rooftop units
- 00:46:20actually fell through all the way to the
- 00:46:22basement from the just the wood Rod so
- 00:46:24they were able to reclaim some of the
- 00:46:25wood but the building itself couldn't be
- 00:46:26safe yeah oh man that's so cool though
- 00:46:29like 250 year old buildings yeah it's
- 00:46:32it's yeah well the wood the building
- 00:46:35wasn't that old I guess the wood the
- 00:46:36wood yeah the wood was you know the wood
- 00:46:38was growing here when St Louis was
- 00:46:39founded basically 25 years ago so so I
- 00:46:43got to know like you're running an
- 00:46:46operation that has six different
- 00:46:48buildings now right correct yeah six
- 00:46:50different businesses do you ever get
- 00:46:51overwhelmed just like do you ever wake
- 00:46:54up and just like I am the king of an
- 00:46:55Empire oh no no no that no and I think
- 00:46:58you know people it's funny because
- 00:47:01people say well you know you have all
- 00:47:01these people working for you and we have
- 00:47:03I don't know we have probably close to
- 00:47:0450 employees now or something with all
- 00:47:06of it and I and I still feel like to
- 00:47:08this day I think we I still work for
- 00:47:10each one of them you know um even though
- 00:47:13they're our employees you know and we
- 00:47:14have a great team I mean you know our
- 00:47:16director of operations who is is not an
- 00:47:18owner of the company but is completely
- 00:47:20as committed as I am when it comes to
- 00:47:22this company you know he's putting in as
- 00:47:23many hours as I am and it it's there's
- 00:47:25there's no way I can do this without all
- 00:47:28the people that are here yeah and it's a
- 00:47:30you know I'm running a little coffee
- 00:47:31shop it's what it is you know it's
- 00:47:33nothing more than that it's it's yeah
- 00:47:34there's four of them now and there's a
- 00:47:36roasting facility and but I don't know I
- 00:47:38don't no I never feel like I'm running
- 00:47:40an Empire I think sometimes I feel like
- 00:47:41the Empire is running me yeah but no the
- 00:47:44other way around no and it is it's it
- 00:47:46takes it takes you know they say it
- 00:47:47takes a village or whatever it takes a
- 00:47:49team for sure and this doesn't happen
- 00:47:51like you know doesn't happen uh easily
- 00:47:54and it takes a lot of effort to do that
- 00:47:56and and I think and I think even you
- 00:47:57know to this day I don't do much of the
- 00:47:59day-to-day stuff but yeah still do I
- 00:48:01still try to keep you I was at one of
- 00:48:03our locations I was at our downtown
- 00:48:04location today they got a brand new
- 00:48:06pastry case and we actually got this
- 00:48:08pastry case and we had to uninstall the
- 00:48:09other one and I was down there cleaning
- 00:48:11the pastry case and taking it out and
- 00:48:13and you know it's no different than that
- 00:48:14I mean we it's still all hands on deck
- 00:48:16it's still a small business it still
- 00:48:18takes a lot of effort it still takes a
- 00:48:20lot of time you know I mean most of my
- 00:48:22days I don't start nearly as early as I
- 00:48:24used to when I open the store but I mean
- 00:48:26three days this week I we had catering
- 00:48:28events two days this week and one day I
- 00:48:29was up at four and one day I was up at 5
- 00:48:31for catering events and then you know my
- 00:48:33day normally stops around 8 or nine
- 00:48:35o'clock at night your day so do you take
- 00:48:40weekends or are you working like seven
- 00:48:41days a week it's it's it's pretty much
- 00:48:44seven days a week I I will sneak a day
- 00:48:46here and there like I didn't work this
- 00:48:48past Sunday which is probably the first
- 00:48:49day this year that I didn't work and I
- 00:48:51snuck in and snuck out but I still come
- 00:48:53in for my coffee most days actually
- 00:48:55Sunday was one of the very first days I
- 00:48:56didn't come in for coffee probably if
- 00:48:58I've been in town I bet there's only
- 00:48:59been I bet there's been five days and 10
- 00:49:02years that I haven't been in one of the
- 00:49:03stores getting coffee if nothing more
- 00:49:05than that yeah every day probably five
- 00:49:08times in 10 years that I haven't been I
- 00:49:10mean that yeah and that's the grind so I
- 00:49:13got to ask as the owner of four
- 00:49:15different coffee shops what's your
- 00:49:16favorite way to have your
- 00:49:18coffee so right now and it it's buried
- 00:49:21over the years it's gone it's gone all
- 00:49:23over the place right now I do four shots
- 00:49:25of espresso it's basically Americano so
- 00:49:27four shot Americano 16 o with four shots
- 00:49:30of espresso and then just a just a
- 00:49:32little bit of uh 2% to cool it off so I
- 00:49:34can drink it okay yeah yeah the the
- 00:49:37Heat's always like I just want to drink
- 00:49:38it right away so I can never get like
- 00:49:40the just the coffee because it's always
- 00:49:41too hot right that's that's kind of the
- 00:49:43way I am I want I need my coffee now and
- 00:49:45I don't I don't want it hot so I can
- 00:49:47drink it in an hour I want it so I can
- 00:49:49drink it now yeah exactly so I got to
- 00:49:51say talking to you it it sounds like one
- 00:49:54of your best and most successful
- 00:49:55qualities it just seems like you're
- 00:49:57really really good at adapting to things
- 00:49:58that happen well and I think you have to
- 00:50:00be you know and every day things happen
- 00:50:03you know I mean you know we had an
- 00:50:05employee who had a her father had a
- 00:50:07stroke and you know and another one
- 00:50:09whose family his car broke down and is
- 00:50:11way back from his visiting his family
- 00:50:12and he couldn't make it back to I mean
- 00:50:14so every day is changing and and I think
- 00:50:16the probably the best part of that is
- 00:50:18I'm not the first person they call
- 00:50:20anymore which is kind of nice but it
- 00:50:23gives me a I have a layer of of Defense
- 00:50:25between me and the oh I have to have a
- 00:50:27shift covered but but no it's everything
- 00:50:29adapts everything changes and you know
- 00:50:31thank God we've been we've been super
- 00:50:33successful and all of our stores have
- 00:50:35have been profitable and we haven't had
- 00:50:36any you know downturns really we we were
- 00:50:39kind of Recession Proof you know we
- 00:50:41started in 2006 yeah7 eight n were tough
- 00:50:44times for a lot of businesses and we
- 00:50:46were very fortunate to be able to charge
- 00:50:47right through that and we grew every
- 00:50:48year we never we've never decreased in
- 00:50:51sales every year we've grown and so
- 00:50:53we're very fortunate in that and and I
- 00:50:55think it's one thing that my staff and
- 00:50:58my management team hears from me way
- 00:51:00more than they like to hear is little
- 00:51:02things make big differences yes little
- 00:51:06things absolutely big differences when
- 00:51:08people come in and you greet them as
- 00:51:10soon as they walk through the door and
- 00:51:12the last thing you do before they leave
- 00:51:13is say hey thanks so much for making us
- 00:51:14a part of your morning we'll see you
- 00:51:15tomorrow that's not people you know that
- 00:51:18that those things those make an
- 00:51:20impression on people and the thing that
- 00:51:21you have to understand and I think the
- 00:51:23people a lot of coffee shops didn't make
- 00:51:25it through 2007 n and I think the reason
- 00:51:28that is we've seen a lot of of of
- 00:51:31smaller independent coffee shops but you
- 00:51:33know in the early in the in the early
- 00:51:352000s late 99 you know 90s and early
- 00:51:382000s economy was great people had money
- 00:51:41people would buy coffee people would buy
- 00:51:43whatever because the money was good but
- 00:51:44then when things got bad people wouldn't
- 00:51:47buy okay coffee yeah people would
- 00:51:49splurge and buy good coffee because you
- 00:51:51know what they weren't buying a new car
- 00:51:52they weren't buying a new house they may
- 00:51:54not be going on vacation but gosh darn
- 00:51:56it I'm going to treat myself to my
- 00:51:58morning coffee and and we saw that but
- 00:52:00people wouldn't treat themselves to
- 00:52:02morning coffee unless it was good yes it
- 00:52:04was less than good they're like you know
- 00:52:06what that's four bucks that I can save
- 00:52:07and buy something good and so the people
- 00:52:10who didn't do a really good job didn't
- 00:52:12make it through that period of time the
- 00:52:14people who did a good job with what they
- 00:52:15did made it through and it was tough for
- 00:52:17a lot of folks I know we were very very
- 00:52:19fortunate not to be affected by that but
- 00:52:21I think if you did if you did it well
- 00:52:23people came back and one of the things
- 00:52:25today every place on the planet sells
- 00:52:28coffee y I mean every gas station and
- 00:52:29there's some gas stations that are doing
- 00:52:31a pretty decent job with coffee honestly
- 00:52:33you know I sometimes hate to admit that
- 00:52:35but there's some there's some gas
- 00:52:36stations that are really trying to up
- 00:52:38their game when it comes to coffee so
- 00:52:39why do people drive by three gas
- 00:52:41stations that sell okay coffee to come
- 00:52:43visit us and that's what we have to be
- 00:52:45different to everybody else yeah and and
- 00:52:48then by thanking them and like getting
- 00:52:49to know them and like having part of the
- 00:52:51rewards program and you know different
- 00:52:53things and try to get them to come back
- 00:52:54and give them a free drink for their
- 00:52:56birthday and all those little things add
- 00:52:57up to make a big difference yeah I had
- 00:53:00that drilled into my head when I worked
- 00:53:02as an orientation assistant at my
- 00:53:04college my manager boss she was like
- 00:53:06this old lady and she's like every
- 00:53:08little detail counts these people are
- 00:53:10paying to go here for four years and
- 00:53:13you're giving them a tour and you're
- 00:53:14helping them sign up for classes and
- 00:53:15every little tiny detail is gonna matter
- 00:53:18yeah and I'm a perfectionist which is
- 00:53:20even harder and so it's hard to let go
- 00:53:22of a lot of this stuff because I want it
- 00:53:25exactly the way I want it and it's and
- 00:53:27and no one else even no matter how
- 00:53:30committed or how bought in how much Buy
- 00:53:32in you have to work for a company no one
- 00:53:34likes it exactly perfect like you do and
- 00:53:37so there's there's a challenge sometimes
- 00:53:38to step back on that and and and I don't
- 00:53:40spend as much time in our stores as I
- 00:53:41used to and and I was at our downtown
- 00:53:44store today for the first time in quite
- 00:53:45a while and you know overall the store
- 00:53:47looked fantastic but there were a couple
- 00:53:48little things I'm like we need to take
- 00:53:49care of that we need to take care of
- 00:53:50that and don't forget that you know uh
- 00:53:52but overall I mean they're doing a great
- 00:53:54job and we have amazing staff and we
- 00:53:55have great great customers that come in
- 00:53:57and support us you know and just have un
- 00:54:00unconditional support for us and those
- 00:54:02people I had I had coffee with one of
- 00:54:04them last week who's been with us he was
- 00:54:06a customer in that coffee shop before I
- 00:54:08ever owned it and he's still a customer
- 00:54:09today and it's just we have an insanely
- 00:54:12loyal customer base and it's it makes a
- 00:54:15difference makes a difference that is
- 00:54:17awesome so one last question for you I
- 00:54:19want to bring it back to the coffee I
- 00:54:22mean you're not in the stores any
- 00:54:23anymore like Brewing the coffee
- 00:54:24yourselves or or making espresso or
- 00:54:27anything back when you were starting it
- 00:54:29out since your sister hadn't really done
- 00:54:31coffee before was it a process of you
- 00:54:35just kind of trying to teach her the
- 00:54:37coffee the way you liked it or did you
- 00:54:39like test it on customers to kind of get
- 00:54:41a recipe liked the fortunate part about
- 00:54:44that was we had one full-time and two
- 00:54:46part-time employees and the full-time
- 00:54:48employee that we had at the time was
- 00:54:49very very good at what he did and so my
- 00:54:52sister went to work there before we
- 00:54:54owned it before I owned it she went to
- 00:54:56work there and she worked there for a
- 00:54:57month for free she got up every morning
- 00:55:00she went in and she was going to try to
- 00:55:02learn what they did and how they did it
- 00:55:04and and she did and she and she did that
- 00:55:07and then she's like you know what I
- 00:55:08think this is wrong and I think we need
- 00:55:09to fix this and I think this and and
- 00:55:11overall I think we really and I think
- 00:55:13the biggest thing that we really I don't
- 00:55:15think we I don't think we like did
- 00:55:17anything miraculous other than treat
- 00:55:19people fairly give them a good quality
- 00:55:21product for a fair price and be open
- 00:55:24consistent hours I mean and again that
- 00:55:25sounds maybe oversimplified but really
- 00:55:28that's all people want yeah if you can
- 00:55:31provide that and give them great
- 00:55:33customer service you give them no reason
- 00:55:34not to come back and so as long as they
- 00:55:37come back everything is good so yeah she
- 00:55:39didn't drink coffee so that does make it
- 00:55:40a little bit more of a challenge she
- 00:55:42couldn't be the one that like oh I
- 00:55:43tasted that that didn't taste right now
- 00:55:45today she drinks coffee every day I we
- 00:55:47we've converted her to a coffee now but
- 00:55:50but yeah so it it I think again you
- 00:55:54don't have to know everything yourself
- 00:55:57and somebody famous said this saying and
- 00:55:58I'll steal it but I don't know who it
- 00:56:00was to give credit to is like you hire
- 00:56:02people who are smarter than you and let
- 00:56:05them do what they do because they're
- 00:56:06smarter than you don't hire people that
- 00:56:09are smarter than you then tell them what
- 00:56:10to do so you have to hire people so you
- 00:56:13know there's there's three parts of
- 00:56:15being an entrepreneur that you have to
- 00:56:16be successful in business you have to
- 00:56:17have that technician part we talked
- 00:56:19about that person doing the work every
- 00:56:21day you have to have the management
- 00:56:22piece which manages the work and manages
- 00:56:24the schedule and manages the employees
- 00:56:26and manages the production so that the
- 00:56:28the worker can do their job because have
- 00:56:29somebody managing it and then you have
- 00:56:31to have an entrepreneurial piece of that
- 00:56:33which is me which is you know we can do
- 00:56:35it better faster you know quicker
- 00:56:36smarter or whatever and so to keep
- 00:56:39things Innovative and keep things new
- 00:56:40and fresh and not stale and what can we
- 00:56:42do different and how can we make this
- 00:56:43better and look outside the box
- 00:56:45sometimes and say you know what we've
- 00:56:46done like this all along and it's not
- 00:56:48really broken but would it be better to
- 00:56:49do this so on that is this is I think
- 00:56:54that half of what we do today is
- 00:56:56probably been brought on by someone who
- 00:56:58worked with us over the years you know I
- 00:57:00can't look because I one of the things
- 00:57:02that we look at is there's three things
- 00:57:04we look at to make any change in our
- 00:57:05company ever and this goes from the
- 00:57:07person who is packaging our coffee and
- 00:57:10our roasting facility to our director of
- 00:57:12operations who's second in command over
- 00:57:14the entire six companies to my sister
- 00:57:16who now has morphed into running the
- 00:57:18entire baking operation with her and her
- 00:57:20team so she's running the baking
- 00:57:22operation on her own is three things you
- 00:57:24look at when you go to make a change how
- 00:57:26does it affect our customer is the
- 00:57:28process faster is it slower is it more
- 00:57:31cost effective is it less cost effective
- 00:57:33how does it affect the customer that's
- 00:57:35always the first thing we look at can we
- 00:57:36do it faster but yet more efficient or
- 00:57:39slower less how does that affect the
- 00:57:41customer that's number one number two
- 00:57:43thing you look at is how does it affect
- 00:57:45us as a team can we do it easier is it
- 00:57:48less work for us is it more work for us
- 00:57:50is it more time consuming less time
- 00:57:51consuming how does it affect us as a
- 00:57:52team that's the second thing you look at
- 00:57:55and the third thing you look look at is
- 00:57:56how does it affect the bottom line is it
- 00:57:58more expensive to do it this way is it
- 00:58:00less expensive to do it this way can we
- 00:58:01do it more efficiently so we're going to
- 00:58:03save half as much time and spend three
- 00:58:04more pennies what makes sense and if
- 00:58:07those three things make sense obviously
- 00:58:09the first being the customer which all
- 00:58:10goes back it's all about people it's all
- 00:58:12about relationships and it's all about
- 00:58:13customers and second up how does it
- 00:58:15affect us as teammates and team members
- 00:58:17and how does it affect us to doing our
- 00:58:19job and the last thing is how does it
- 00:58:20affect the bottom line so that's
- 00:58:21important but it's obviously not the
- 00:58:23most important yeah if we can we can
- 00:58:25justify those three things of why we
- 00:58:27need to make a change then we make that
- 00:58:28change and that's exactly how we do it
- 00:58:31on everything and anything that we make
- 00:58:33a change on those three things are
- 00:58:35looked at on everything no matter if
- 00:58:36it's the kind of toilet paper that we're
- 00:58:38using in our toilets to the type of hand
- 00:58:41soap that's in the kitchen I mean all of
- 00:58:44those things how does it how does those
- 00:58:45things affect that yeah man I wanted to
- 00:58:48do an episode on coffee but I feel like
- 00:58:49this ended up being like a master class
- 00:58:51on just learning a business in general
- 00:58:53like I think you can apply this to
- 00:58:55everything if you want to do something
- 00:58:56with coffee later we can do that but
- 00:58:59yeah no I don't I didn't really know
- 00:59:00exactly where this was going and it just
- 00:59:02it kind of went where it went and uh and
- 00:59:03if you want to do something differently
- 00:59:05some other time I'd be happy to do it
- 00:59:06actually yeah I mean this was fantastic
- 00:59:09Dale thank you so much for coming to the
- 00:59:10show most guests have their own websites
- 00:59:13and they're doing stuff kind of globally
- 00:59:14I know you're mostly local in St Louis
- 00:59:17so I mean if I've got listeners out in
- 00:59:18St Louis go to Park Avenue is there like
- 00:59:21anywhere online people can follow you or
- 00:59:23if you go to Park Avenue
- 00:59:25coffee.com Park Avenue coffee all
- 00:59:27spelled out.com we sell all of our
- 00:59:29coffee on our website we sell all of our
- 00:59:31gooey butter cakes on our website really
- 00:59:34okay yeah we ship we ship International
- 00:59:37we ship International every week we send
- 00:59:39gooey butter cakes out of the country so
- 00:59:41if I buy myself an espresso machine I
- 00:59:43can buy coffee from you is what you're
- 00:59:46saying absolutely I will I I know this
- 00:59:48guy we can hook you up with some good
- 00:59:49coffee oh man okay and all of our coffee
- 00:59:52is small batch air roasted so it's much
- 00:59:54brighter cleaner crisp per cup of coffee
- 00:59:57that's a whole another episode but air
- 00:59:59roasted coffee is just much cleaner you
- 01:00:02never get that really dark outer you
- 01:00:04know the advantage of going with a
- 01:00:05darker roast in coffee is you pull more
- 01:00:07flavors out of it the downside of a
- 01:00:08traditional coffee roaster the darker
- 01:00:10you go you get that outer ring that's
- 01:00:12very very dark and carbonized on the
- 01:00:14outside and the carbonization gives
- 01:00:16people the taste of bitterness or burnt
- 01:00:18and people don't like dark coffee for
- 01:00:20that reason R roasted coffee you can go
- 01:00:22dark roast you get all the flavors out
- 01:00:24of it without getting that outer burnt
- 01:00:27black it's way way cleaner crisper and
- 01:00:30you never ever get any kind of
- 01:00:31bitterness or burnt out of our coffee
- 01:00:33that's awesome yeah I was I was nerding
- 01:00:36out about this a little bit before I
- 01:00:38emailed you and I ended up watching like
- 01:00:40this 12 minute completely voiceless just
- 01:00:43coffee roasting and Brewing
- 01:00:45demonstration with like all these
- 01:00:47chemistry terms in it and it's like you
- 01:00:49have to wait to the exact perfect moment
- 01:00:51where the water drips through but
- 01:00:52doesn't extract too much yeah it's
- 01:00:56there's definitely some science and and
- 01:00:58you know and it's yeah it's a very
- 01:01:00scientific it's not just say you just
- 01:01:01put water on on coffee and it and it it
- 01:01:04does things but there's definitely
- 01:01:05scientific behind the extraction and the
- 01:01:08air roasting is the same thing there's a
- 01:01:09lot of science behind air roasting and
- 01:01:12again that's a whole another episode we
- 01:01:13could talk about and I'd be happy to do
- 01:01:15that but yeah so it's you know the
- 01:01:17takeaway from this is find something you
- 01:01:18love to do and figure out how to make
- 01:01:20money at it because you know what it
- 01:01:21doesn't matter if you start at 4 in the
- 01:01:22morning and you finish at 9: at night if
- 01:01:24you love every moment of what you're
- 01:01:26doing it doesn't feel like work and if
- 01:01:28it doesn't feel like work it doesn't
- 01:01:29matter that you did it for 15 hours
- 01:01:31today because it wasn't work it was fun
- 01:01:33yes so you had fun for 15 hours a day I
- 01:01:35mean how how lucky am I that I can do
- 01:01:37that for 10 or 15 hours a day and get
- 01:01:39paid for it so awes I agree 100% Dale
- 01:01:43thank you so much for coming to the show
- 01:01:44this has been awesome in my pleasure I
- 01:01:46had a fantastic time and I would love to
- 01:01:47talk again all right guys thanks so much
- 01:01:50for listening to this episode hopefully
- 01:01:51you enjoyed it and learned something
- 01:01:53useful once again if you want to find
- 01:01:54the show notes they are over at cig
- 01:01:56podcast.com find that episode 114 link
- 01:01:59on the page to find all the resource
- 01:02:01links that we uh mentioned in this
- 01:02:02episode along with ways to rate and
- 01:02:04review the podcast on iTunes that
- 01:02:06definitely helps support the show in
- 01:02:08fact every single rating and review the
- 01:02:09show gets on iTunes helps Drive the show
- 01:02:11up the charts and the rankings and helps
- 01:02:13it become more visible to more and more
- 01:02:15people which makes me really happy and
- 01:02:17enables more students to find it and
- 01:02:19learn from it so if you want to support
- 01:02:21the show that's a great way to do it
- 01:02:22other than that if you want to find my
- 01:02:24favorite tools for being a more
- 01:02:25effective student you can find those
- 01:02:27over at college of.com sres ources and
- 01:02:30that is all I've got for you in this
- 01:02:32episode so until next week's episode
- 01:02:34stay
- 01:02:37[Music]
- 01:02:49cute
- coffee shop
- entrepreneurship
- business
- customer service
- community engagement
- St. Louis
- Park Avenue Coffee
- gooey buttercake
- branding
- expansion