Struggles for Self-Determination in the 21st Century: Perspectives from Africa – Focus on Kenya
摘要
TLDRThe symposium discussed self-determination struggles in the 21st century, with a focus on Africa, particularly Kenya. It brought together Grassroots activists and human rights defenders to discuss challenges like neoliberalism and neocolonialism. The event highlighted the significance of the Kurdish struggle, led by figurehead Abdullah Öcalan, as an inspiration for movements in Kenya and beyond. It was emphasized that despite challenges like police brutality, extrajudicial killings, and privatization, the resistance continues through Grassroots movements and arts like theater, which are instrumental in raising awareness and empowering communities. The symposium advocated for international solidarity and learning from the Kurdish struggle to drive movements in Africa. Issues like the negative impact of NGOs, the importance of socialist and democratic confederalist frameworks, and the vital role of law in activism were also addressed. Proposals for fostering international cooperation included organizing delegations, fostering unity through arts and culture, and enhancing communication between global activist networks.
心得
- 🎯 Focus on self-determination struggles in Kenya and globally.
- ✊ Emphasis on Grassroots movements and human rights activism.
- 🌍 Importance of international solidarity and cooperation.
- 🎨 Use of arts and theater in activism for social change.
- 📚 Need for educational resources and consciousness raising.
- 🔨 Role of law in fighting injustices and mobilizing communities.
- 💡 Challenges posed by neoliberalism and NGOs in activism.
- 🌱 Inspiration from Kurdish struggle and Abdullah Öcalan.
- 👥 Networking and collaborating across activist groups.
- 🔗 Revitalizing socialist and democratic confederalist ideas.
时间轴
- 00:00:00 - 00:05:00
The introduction of the symposium focuses on struggles for self-determination in the 21st century, with representatives from various grassroots and activist movements, particularly from Kenya. They aim to address issues like anti-capitalism and neocolonialism, and the impact these have on communities globally. This segment introduces key speakers and their backgrounds.
- 00:05:00 - 00:10:00
The discussion includes references to the works of Kurdish leader Abdullah, highlighting his influence on struggles in Kenya. The symposium seeks to link international struggles, focusing on how Kenya and other regions draw inspiration from his ideas. The challenges of understanding these links are acknowledged, as well as successes of grassroots movements.
- 00:10:00 - 00:15:00
Participants are invited to share their opening remarks. A speaker emphasizes the international solidarity in struggles against neocolonialism, drawing parallels between Kenyan resistance and global movements. The significance of intellectual and grassroots collaboration is stressed, alongside a critique of neoliberalism's impact.
- 00:15:00 - 00:20:00
A detailed history of resistance in Kenya is provided, illustrating continuous struggles against colonial and post-independence oppression. The formation of social justice centers is highlighted as a foundation for contemporary activism, drawing on intellectual and grassroots networks to mobilize communities.
- 00:20:00 - 00:25:00
The significance of grassroots movements in resistance is discussed, with a focus on self-determination and organizing against systemic issues like extrajudicial killings and ecological injustice. The role of intellectual networks and literature in advancing these causes is also emphasized.
- 00:25:00 - 00:30:00
Speakers highlight the struggles with neocolonialism and privatization, critiquing the impact on local communities in Kenya. The discussion covers the use of theater as a tool for resistance, drawing on historical examples of its effectiveness in political movements. The involvement of various social justice centers is noted.
- 00:30:00 - 00:35:00
The intersection of art and activism is discussed further, with emphasis on theater as a mode of resistance. Presenters focus on its power to engage communities and address issues like privatization and systemic violence, arguing for its place within broader social justice efforts.
- 00:35:00 - 00:40:00
The discussion shifts to the challenges faced by activists, particularly the influence of NGOs in shaping movements. The tension between NGO involvement and grassroots activism is explored, drawing on examples from recent history. This segment critiques the neoliberalization of resistance movements.
- 00:40:00 - 00:45:00
The influence of external global entities like the IMF is highlighted as a major challenge for grassroots movements. There's a call to organize on an international level, linking struggles across the globe. Emphasis is placed on learning from each other's experiences to strengthen local and global activism.
- 00:45:00 - 00:50:00
Organizers stress the importance of tailoring political education to local contexts, particularly within Kenya. They advocate for grassroots organization and emphasize using cultural methods like theater to engage communities, which could inspire broader political consciousness and resistance movements.
- 00:50:00 - 00:55:00
The relationship between local struggles and international solidarity is explored, discussing how grassroots movements can partner with international networks for mutual support. There's a focus on aligning with international bodies to amplify local struggles, using past collaborative efforts as a guide.
- 00:55:00 - 01:00:00
Key challenges in enabling effective international solidarity are discussed, noting linguistic, cultural, and logistical barriers. The conversation stresses the importance of international coordination without diluting local struggles, emphasizing the need for global frameworks that support grassroots efforts.
- 01:00:00 - 01:05:00
The session reflects on historical Kenyan struggles and their relevance to contemporary global movements. There's a call to connect these movements internationally, learning from one another to build resilient networks against capitalism and imperialism.
- 01:05:00 - 01:10:00
The importance of diverse organizational structures is emphasized, suggesting multiple organizations work together rather than unifying under a single banner. There's a call to recognize and utilize existing strengths within varied organizational models, particularly drawing from localized community efforts.
- 01:10:00 - 01:15:00
Participants deliberate on how internationalist groups can support grassroots movements actively. They explore ways to create synergistic events and learning opportunities that transcend geographic boundaries, focusing on arts and culture as unifying tools.
- 01:15:00 - 01:20:00
A suggestion is made to organize international events or delegations to Kenya, encouraging direct engagement with local movements. This would aim to build solidarity and provide international perspectives that could enrich local strategies and consciousness.
- 01:20:00 - 01:25:00
The utility of virtual platforms for connecting international movements is discussed, acknowledging the complexity of global solidarity in practical terms. The need for both virtual and physical engagement is highlighted as strategies to strengthen international support.
- 01:25:00 - 01:30:00
The conversation includes reflections on Kurdish struggles, noting the interconnectedness of their fights with global liberation movements. This connection is suggested as a potential focus for fostering greater solidarity and support between diverse international movements.
- 01:30:00 - 01:35:00
The role of intellectual leadership and education in galvanizing movements is emphasized, noting the potential of academic and activist collaboration to forge new pathways for resistance. The session stresses the need for ongoing dialogue and exchange between different activist networks.
- 01:35:00 - 01:47:27
Concluding remarks focus on establishing robust, mutually beneficial networks that leverage both local insights and international support. There's an emphasis on action-oriented initiatives, fostering a global consciousness, and creating sustainable support systems for resistance.
思维导图
常见问题
What was the primary focus of the symposium?
The symposium focused on struggles for self-determination in the 21st century, with a particular emphasis on Kenya and its Grassroots movements.
Who was a key figure mentioned in relation to the Kurdish struggle?
Abdullah Öcalan was a key figure mentioned in relation to the Kurdish struggle.
What challenges are being faced by communities in Kenya?
Communities in Kenya are facing challenges such as police brutality, extrajudicial killings, privatization of basic services, and the negative impacts of neoliberal policies.
How is art used in Kenya's struggle for justice?
Art, particularly theater, is used as a powerful tool to advocate for social change and raise awareness about issues like police brutality and housing rights in Kenya.
What historical connections were made during the symposium?
The symposium made historical connections between the struggles in Kenya and the Kurdish people's fight for self-determination, emphasizing shared experiences of resistance and oppression.
What role does international solidarity play according to the symposium discussions?
International solidarity is crucial for connecting struggles globally, amplifying voices against oppression, and learning from each other’s resistance movements.
What solutions were proposed for enhancing international cooperation?
Proposals included organizing delegations, using arts and culture to foster unity, creating educational resources, and enhancing communication between different activist networks globally.
How are the concepts of socialism and democratic confederalism viewed in the context of these struggles?
These concepts are viewed as frameworks that need revitalization to address current global struggles against imperialism and capitalism.
What is a significant issue with NGO involvement in social movements in Kenya?
NGOs have often depoliticized and professionalized social movements in Kenya, making it challenging to mobilize genuine Grassroots activism.
What suggestions were given for using legal frameworks in activism?
The use of public interest litigation and legal empowerment networks was suggested to mobilize communities around their constitutional rights and fight injustices like extrajudicial killings.
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Lesson 1 - Voltage, Current, Resistance (Engineering Circuit Analysis)
- 00:00:00foreign
- 00:00:05[Music]
- 00:00:10okay good afternoon revolutionary
- 00:00:12greetings welcome one and all I will I
- 00:00:16will first thanks go to peace in
- 00:00:17Kurdistan or pick as the acronym goes
- 00:00:20completes the Stella
- 00:00:22along Dion of the struggle and the key
- 00:00:26driver
- 00:00:26or a number of decades and more
- 00:00:28importantly for bringing this together
- 00:00:30this afternoon as well the focus of this
- 00:00:33Symposium is struggles for
- 00:00:34self-determination in the 21st century
- 00:00:37perspectives from Africa and of course
- 00:00:39the focus is on Kenya
- 00:00:41and we have with us an illustrian group
- 00:00:45of comrades from the Grassroots
- 00:00:46movements and human rights and activist
- 00:00:49backgrounds before I go to each of our
- 00:00:52key individuals for this afternoon I'm
- 00:00:54also acknowledged
- 00:01:06a scholar academic activist and long
- 00:01:08time activist for the Kurdish struggle
- 00:01:12and Kurdish issues and in particular for
- 00:01:14the release of Abdullah
- 00:01:16the guests with us this afternoon is
- 00:01:22comrades one jira one zero
- 00:01:26and minu Kia I hope I've pronounced that
- 00:01:30correctly the purpose of the Symposium
- 00:01:33is simply to ensure that us together not
- 00:01:36only as activists but as intellectuals
- 00:01:39and organic intellectuals focus on the
- 00:01:41issues that are primarily against the
- 00:01:45issues of anti-capitalism as well as
- 00:01:47neocolonial projects that are festering
- 00:01:50and are the very undoing of our
- 00:01:53communities that are averaging not only
- 00:01:55Kenya Africa South America but the globe
- 00:01:58we look forward to this afternoon's
- 00:02:01engagement with our comrades
- 00:02:03congressi is record the native the
- 00:02:05mathare social justice center and a
- 00:02:07member of the social justice the working
- 00:02:09group Syrian Committee in Nairobi Kenya
- 00:02:12he is involved in Regional and social
- 00:02:15movements and politics he research and
- 00:02:18writes about violence criminalization of
- 00:02:20the poor social justice and social
- 00:02:22struggles amongst other areas these
- 00:02:25articles and video interviews are
- 00:02:27published by Rob and Africa is a country
- 00:02:30as well as virtual books and others
- 00:02:33congrats 1-0 is a Grassroots activist
- 00:02:36who has co-founded the material social
- 00:02:38justice center and the matigari youth
- 00:02:41book club she is a ba student at the
- 00:02:44University of Nairobi and a co-host of
- 00:02:47three liberating Mayans artwork on
- 00:02:49YouTube and soon
- 00:02:53is a political activist and a human
- 00:02:55rights and social justice lawyer and the
- 00:02:58coordinator of the legal empowerment
- 00:02:59network of the mathare social justice
- 00:03:02center and member of the organic
- 00:03:04intellectuals network of India comrade
- 00:03:07menu is a feminist and a political
- 00:03:09activist from the mukuru community
- 00:03:11Justice Center and the team leader of
- 00:03:14the social justice centers traveling
- 00:03:16theater she Champions using Arc to
- 00:03:19expose the contradictions of capitalism
- 00:03:21and consequently patriarch and of course
- 00:03:24myself Mahmoud Patel who is the
- 00:03:27chairperson of the Kurdish human rights
- 00:03:29Action Group in South Africa a legal
- 00:03:31scholar and a long time active versus as
- 00:03:34well as a former whom controversies were
- 00:03:36operator in South Africa of course the
- 00:03:39program was foregrounded by a document
- 00:03:42that was shared by our comrades from
- 00:03:45peace in Kurdistan that was pended and
- 00:03:48put together by our friend and comrade
- 00:03:50Dr Jeffrey Miley that long 18-page
- 00:03:54document was together with meetings and
- 00:03:57the fruition of which was the crisp
- 00:04:00analysis and folki for what we are this
- 00:04:03afternoon of course the proposal for the
- 00:04:05symposium was foregrounded by the
- 00:04:08challenges that are emerging on the
- 00:04:10ground in rajaba and Northeastern Syria
- 00:04:13as a practice and a model of the
- 00:04:15thinking and thoughts and ideas of the
- 00:04:17great revolutionary Abdullah of course
- 00:04:20his Works present by things one two and
- 00:04:21three are well known amongst us and the
- 00:04:24broader communities in South Africa
- 00:04:26Africa and the globe at large of course
- 00:04:29the struggles in Kenya have been
- 00:04:30inspired by his thoughts and ideas and
- 00:04:33we understand from the background
- 00:04:34document that it is not an easy task to
- 00:04:38understand how those links may be fought
- 00:04:40as far as going forward
- 00:04:41of course they are challenges but more
- 00:04:44importantly the resilience the
- 00:04:45commitment and the successes of the
- 00:04:48Grassroots movements in Kenya as well as
- 00:04:50throughout the continent are a testament
- 00:04:53that the inspiration derived from
- 00:04:55Abdullah and his thinking is a key
- 00:04:58driver for that of course comrade
- 00:05:00Jeffrey Miley quoted extensively on the
- 00:05:02struggles of others in from South
- 00:05:04America as well as those from the black
- 00:05:06Consciousness movement whether it is
- 00:05:08Cedric Robinson as well as Frederick
- 00:05:10Douglass and others to foreground the
- 00:05:12theoretical understandings on how we can
- 00:05:15grasp with these challenges that we Face
- 00:05:17going forward you've heard me with the
- 00:05:20introductory and opening remarks and the
- 00:05:22brief bios of all our important caders
- 00:05:25that are here with us today and everyone
- 00:05:27else here who is here part of the tent
- 00:05:29that are here with us as well including
- 00:05:32the introduction given to us our comrade
- 00:05:34Shira durani I will friend
- 00:05:38I don't want to take more time but I
- 00:05:40want to give the floor now to overcome
- 00:05:42raids who are here with us I know we
- 00:05:45were formed by comrade
- 00:05:48got checked that he doesn't have a
- 00:05:49presentation uh two or three days ago
- 00:05:52but I know the other comrades would also
- 00:05:55want to present so as his custom reader
- 00:05:58flow is yours comrade for your remarks
- 00:06:01and opening statements as well before we
- 00:06:03can move on with the comrades who have
- 00:06:05their presentation with them and would
- 00:06:07like to share that as and when they
- 00:06:10continue and of course we'll be wary of
- 00:06:12time to ensure everybody gets a fair
- 00:06:14opportunity and then we can engage in
- 00:06:18discussion questions as well as
- 00:06:20engagement on the way forward not only
- 00:06:22with your presentations but as comrade
- 00:06:24Jeff has pointed out as a group that can
- 00:06:27go forward taking the challenges on
- 00:06:29ahead thank you comrades comrade the
- 00:06:33floor is yours as they would say please
- 00:06:34proceed
- 00:06:37hey thank you very much Muhammad but
- 00:06:39that's still very powerful and
- 00:06:41passionate introduction very inspiring
- 00:06:43and um I really appreciate for this
- 00:06:46opportunity and especially coming from
- 00:06:48Kenya and uh with my colleagues I also
- 00:06:51thank you very much the team that has
- 00:06:53convinced the Symposium and web now also
- 00:06:56to help us to amplify our struggle here
- 00:06:59in Kenya the work that we have done
- 00:07:00before and with also Community Jeff and
- 00:07:03link up with them with the Kurdish
- 00:07:05movement in various places whether in a
- 00:07:09in Europe and and
- 00:07:12political activity social visiting us
- 00:07:15here in Aerobic as like Margaret has
- 00:07:17said my name is
- 00:07:20social justice center and also a part of
- 00:07:23the Grassroots Liberation movement which
- 00:07:26is a space and political space that we
- 00:07:29are forging together with the Kurdish
- 00:07:31political activist uh when our history
- 00:07:35is connected and we share this a
- 00:07:38struggle of self-determination
- 00:07:41and as you know in 1999
- 00:07:46could not be in Nairobi and that's sure
- 00:07:49how uh our struggle is a connection with
- 00:07:52the Kurdish people with the struggle of
- 00:07:55self-determination and this is the
- 00:07:57history that has unified us uh we have
- 00:08:00done before different campaign like
- 00:08:02campaign for future
- 00:08:04visitors in aerobic and from Germany and
- 00:08:08we started that campaign in
- 00:08:102017 and then after that we got linked
- 00:08:15up with the comrade Jeff who has done a
- 00:08:17book for uh
- 00:08:19freedom on mine and we needed some
- 00:08:22number of seminars here in Nairobi uh
- 00:08:25for self-determination uh feminist
- 00:08:28ecology and uh Democratic Confederacy
- 00:08:32which is part of uh uh philosophy and an
- 00:08:37idea that Jeff has has been asking that
- 00:08:42if this is the idea that you can area
- 00:08:43has written in his paper this is the
- 00:08:46idea that you can think as an African
- 00:08:47and in a question of Pan-Africa that we
- 00:08:50can try to connect and see whether we
- 00:08:52can use this area as a part of
- 00:08:56reorganizing a popular power from Below
- 00:09:00and the the important thing is to say
- 00:09:03that Kenya Kenya has a powerful history
- 00:09:05and I'm not the right person to share
- 00:09:07this history well because the company
- 00:09:08Shiraz is dran is here and he has done a
- 00:09:11lot of work around maumau the history of
- 00:09:14resistors in Kenya another betrayal and
- 00:09:16what has happened with the progressive
- 00:09:18forces since
- 00:09:201963 but he just give a preview of where
- 00:09:24we are coming from we are building from
- 00:09:26the foundation of this struggle that was
- 00:09:29engaged By Conrad Shiraz Rani and many
- 00:09:32of the universities uh lecture our
- 00:09:34students starting with the December 12th
- 00:09:37movement which was a Marxist learnings
- 00:09:40and that was formed in a university then
- 00:09:42from there we had a moi and Moi was the
- 00:09:46second president of Republic of Kenya at
- 00:09:48dictatorship and previously we had
- 00:09:51Kenyatta dictatorship and this is the
- 00:09:53condition that backed up a revolutionary
- 00:09:56movement from the University and a
- 00:09:58working class sites so as as a social
- 00:10:01justice Movement we were building from
- 00:10:02this history a history of resistance a
- 00:10:05history of self-determination even if it
- 00:10:08is a our Liberation struggle Kenya land
- 00:10:10and children Army and that's that's the
- 00:10:13roots of the social justice movement
- 00:10:14which has organized within informal
- 00:10:17settlement and uh we have a number of
- 00:10:19social justice centers that are shaping
- 00:10:22up this struggle we also have organic
- 00:10:25intellectual networks that is trying to
- 00:10:26to to think through this social justice
- 00:10:29movement
- 00:10:30is also linked up to the the struggler
- 00:10:33out there of the
- 00:10:37movement that I've made minded before
- 00:10:39and have continued to write and
- 00:10:42articulate the struggles of all people
- 00:10:44here in Kenya so the organic
- 00:10:46intellectual is is he continued to
- 00:10:49borrow and I read from the literature
- 00:10:51that has been developed by intellectuals
- 00:10:54like professori teach us to run it and
- 00:10:57also recently we did a small article uh
- 00:11:00book on um on um
- 00:11:03discourse that is written by Professor
- 00:11:06Aisha shivji
- 00:11:07it's a broad struggle that you're
- 00:11:09engaging and
- 00:11:11this is is what
- 00:11:14um is what this platform is what has
- 00:11:17connected us with the Kurdish Democratic
- 00:11:20movement and uh uh with that
- 00:11:23introduction I think I can offer uh give
- 00:11:27my colleagues also to make their
- 00:11:30um introduction remarks
- 00:11:35thank you so much
- 00:11:36for your introductory remarks and your
- 00:11:39crisp Salient issues that you have
- 00:11:42brought to us of course our comrades in
- 00:11:46any order can go ahead to do their
- 00:11:49opening remarks congrat Mino I think I
- 00:11:53see you there you are free to go if you
- 00:11:55are available
- 00:11:56to go on and thereafter I've accommodate
- 00:12:02comrades in sequence may continue with
- 00:12:05its comrade waringa or comrade wanjira
- 00:12:09please go ahead comrade
- 00:12:16our greetings complete
- 00:12:18on my comment me know and
- 00:12:20then we after
- 00:12:23uh again my name is
- 00:12:26I am a member of my body social justice
- 00:12:30center where I coordinate the regular
- 00:12:32income and networkers there my company
- 00:12:33said earlier and also um in the
- 00:12:37classification movement I fell in the
- 00:12:39position of a treasure so um I'm so
- 00:12:42grateful again for being involved in
- 00:12:44this Symposium and of course very much
- 00:12:46so because
- 00:12:47we must lead with the spirit of
- 00:12:49internationalism to realize that the
- 00:12:51struggles of all over the world at the
- 00:12:53struggle or are also our similar
- 00:12:55struggles because we aren't writing one
- 00:12:58um you know global system which we must
- 00:13:00fight very hard to overthrow and um of
- 00:13:04course then my comment Jeff has done a
- 00:13:05very good paper for now his experience
- 00:13:08when he was here in Kenya and of course
- 00:13:10what he borrowed from um you know the
- 00:13:12struggle of um what he describes as uh
- 00:13:14what um the rest of the earth as far as
- 00:13:17best described them because um society
- 00:13:21and we of course choose to use the word
- 00:13:22to impenise because our society has been
- 00:13:24deliberately illuminized and you don't
- 00:13:26call them by you know Loop and societies
- 00:13:27because they're lumped by Societies in
- 00:13:30or even transfer only his analysis he
- 00:13:32said that he's among those threat of the
- 00:13:34Earth where you know whether the
- 00:13:36Liberation movements can best be
- 00:13:38grounded because those young people have
- 00:13:40very important tasks because you know
- 00:13:42young people in the informal settlement
- 00:13:44have a very important tax to decide on
- 00:13:46which side of History they shall fall
- 00:13:48because if they become um you know if
- 00:13:50they become intrigued you know
- 00:13:52withdrawal interests they fall in the
- 00:13:54same line of you know they get to be
- 00:13:55used by the political class to write
- 00:13:57their own particular interests but at
- 00:13:59the same time they can take up the
- 00:14:01chance and then no fight in The
- 00:14:02Liberation struggles because they have
- 00:14:04nothing to lose they have been denied
- 00:14:07with every social being that they can
- 00:14:09have and of course the only chance they
- 00:14:11have is to fight for their own
- 00:14:12inspiration and to fight for their own
- 00:14:14life and of course at the same time
- 00:14:15fight for their own dignity so um yes um
- 00:14:19has given a very rich history which is a
- 00:14:23one one history that we are very proud
- 00:14:25of because it shows a history of
- 00:14:27resistance of all our people make sure
- 00:14:29the history of resistance among the
- 00:14:30Kenyan normal the Kenyan people because
- 00:14:32Kenyan people have continually fought
- 00:14:34against any form of operation of one by
- 00:14:37one because even
- 00:14:38um you know I ignore the person that
- 00:14:40said this but hey you know I think you
- 00:14:42know we're all fighting every day to you
- 00:14:46know to defeat human restrictions you
- 00:14:47know to defeat human restriction relying
- 00:14:49as foods to defeat human restriction
- 00:14:51denying US housing to defeat human
- 00:14:52restrictions you know denying as every
- 00:14:55social dignity that we can have and of
- 00:14:57course the fight for the the fight
- 00:14:59against the liberalism continues in our
- 00:15:01everyday strong goals because
- 00:15:02[Music]
- 00:15:03um
- 00:15:08[Music]
- 00:15:11you know he's showing that even the
- 00:15:13African people are particularly fighting
- 00:15:16against you know intellectually
- 00:15:17intellectual dependency along with
- 00:15:19quality because it will be intellectual
- 00:15:21dependency of the West and now African
- 00:15:23people are coming out and saying that we
- 00:15:25have we have our own history and we have
- 00:15:27our own social struggle and you know our
- 00:15:29struggles are struggles that we can live
- 00:15:31to fight and I know it is a fight that
- 00:15:33even if you know the analysis that you
- 00:15:36welcome my community has given if you're
- 00:15:38part of a bad analysis it's that you
- 00:15:41know resistance troubles and never easy
- 00:15:42you know it's not our work in the park
- 00:15:44it's something that we must sacrifice
- 00:15:46and it has to be determined organizing
- 00:15:48of people so that we can win these
- 00:15:50struggles and of course I think it is
- 00:15:52what comes with Jeff refers to you know
- 00:15:54as revolution in Consciousness which is
- 00:15:56what is going on in our different social
- 00:15:57justice centers because within those
- 00:15:59centers we have we have deliberate
- 00:16:02political education cells Within but
- 00:16:04different pillars that we have because
- 00:16:06for example
- 00:16:07um I couldn't get the legal empowerment
- 00:16:09Network which uses low as a tool to
- 00:16:13mobilize issues to mobilize around you
- 00:16:15know the issues that are raised within
- 00:16:16the Constitution because
- 00:16:18um I think my comrade has introduced a
- 00:16:21very good history of the history of
- 00:16:23fighting for which with what even my
- 00:16:25competition of course I was I was
- 00:16:27involved which is the struggle against
- 00:16:30um you know and first neopolonialism by
- 00:16:33um by by President Moy where he tries to
- 00:16:36cut it into them of course one of the
- 00:16:38ways that we can try to conceal Freedom
- 00:16:40which is to try to tell the freedom of
- 00:16:42multiparty democracy and in the process
- 00:16:44you know a resistance sprouted because
- 00:16:46you know generally what she was creating
- 00:16:49his you know molecules of some sort of
- 00:16:51homological system but at least some
- 00:16:53sort of authoritarian system but he
- 00:16:55cannot be he cannot be challenged in
- 00:16:57terms of authority but people you know
- 00:16:59essentially have come up and challenged
- 00:17:02that they came up with a very
- 00:17:03Progressive Constitution
- 00:17:06but in the same Constitution it is very
- 00:17:09difficult to to implement or to
- 00:17:12actualize what is the you know the
- 00:17:13permissions of the Constitution because
- 00:17:15of your liberal politics you know
- 00:17:17liberalism you know dictates that and
- 00:17:19people cannot have food because you know
- 00:17:22privatization dictates that food is also
- 00:17:24a quality a privatization detects that
- 00:17:26housing is a commodity it takes that the
- 00:17:29basic means that human needs to have
- 00:17:30Dignity of the modified and therefore
- 00:17:33the poorest of the people and even the
- 00:17:35working class of our people cannot
- 00:17:36afford basic dignity and of course
- 00:17:39and become very difficult to be able to
- 00:17:42implement the Constitution but what we
- 00:17:43have is a cycle for struggle you know we
- 00:17:46could easily organize the people of
- 00:17:47Mubarak you know to to you know to find
- 00:17:50their self-determination in the sense
- 00:17:51that they have to if they have to then
- 00:17:53quality organize and fight for learn you
- 00:17:55know the math addressed the last
- 00:17:56question you know right now we're doing
- 00:17:58a full campaign of ecological Justice
- 00:18:00because now people must come up with
- 00:18:02deliberately organize around issues of
- 00:18:04ecological injustices because you know
- 00:18:06the the you know the quest of people who
- 00:18:09are most um you know they're the ones
- 00:18:11who are most I don't know how to import
- 00:18:12it but um the words are escaping me but
- 00:18:14it's because they're the ones that at
- 00:18:16least you know they're at least they're
- 00:18:18the ones that at least
- 00:18:20[Music]
- 00:18:21um
- 00:18:22in the Imaging our environment but
- 00:18:25they're the ones that suffer the brand
- 00:18:26of you know a damaged ecological system
- 00:18:29you know but um you know the dirtiest
- 00:18:31among the Dutch history was in the
- 00:18:33Wilder we've been within them at the you
- 00:18:35know the masses of another people you
- 00:18:37know and
- 00:18:38creating distances creating a very
- 00:18:41undignified ways of Behaving no I think
- 00:18:44my company Jeff has detailed that in the
- 00:18:45doctor in in that short paper that he
- 00:18:47bought and of course those kind of
- 00:18:49conditions are what we deliberately
- 00:18:50organize around because people must
- 00:18:52fight and deliberately fight for clean
- 00:18:54and safe water for drinking
- 00:18:56ask themselves the question why they are
- 00:18:59living in congested Charities or there
- 00:19:01are people who are political ruling and
- 00:19:03needs were able to harm us very big you
- 00:19:06know very big pieces of Love within our
- 00:19:08country when we leave other people
- 00:19:10congested in very small um in very small
- 00:19:12environments and of course
- 00:19:24against because this statue of Justice
- 00:19:26Center has granted um in all almost all
- 00:19:30informal settlements of liability
- 00:19:31addressing different questions you know
- 00:19:34um in some areas they are addressing
- 00:19:36issues of extrajudicial appearance which
- 00:19:37at this point
- 00:19:39um I think we need to create a whole
- 00:19:41different analysis of hunting
- 00:19:42extrajudicial killings as crimes against
- 00:19:44humanity because we have followed um you
- 00:19:47know have fun with many different
- 00:19:48analysis that have been given in
- 00:19:50different parts of the world where um
- 00:19:53where the students of course we can see
- 00:19:54that deliberate healings of the poor
- 00:19:56people it's like a cleansing of four
- 00:19:57people by the state which you must
- 00:19:59continually fight you know in black um
- 00:20:01you know in America they are fighting
- 00:20:04you know against uh racism of the black
- 00:20:06of the black children is continually
- 00:20:07being killed by police and on this other
- 00:20:10Friday when the black people are still
- 00:20:11killing that you know the black police
- 00:20:12were instruments of the state
- 00:20:13continually killed our poor people in
- 00:20:16the name of funding crime instead of
- 00:20:18handling uh you know instead of us
- 00:20:20deliberately organizing for for a
- 00:20:23different Society one that actually
- 00:20:24addresses questions of the quantity one
- 00:20:27that actually addresses exclusive and
- 00:20:29actually we were going to love their own
- 00:20:31neighbors and I mean it's it's a
- 00:20:33continuous struggle that we must
- 00:20:34continually um and deliberately organize
- 00:20:36so that people can understand what
- 00:20:38self-determination means of course even
- 00:20:40within the different movements and the
- 00:20:41different shapes of structures speaking
- 00:20:44about for example the organic
- 00:20:45intellectuals which is the lead by it
- 00:20:47that it has to be through political
- 00:20:48education at the masses of what people
- 00:20:50are going to be liberated you know it
- 00:20:52has to be continuous and it has to be
- 00:20:54directly entrenched with the people that
- 00:20:57is why even our centers are within
- 00:20:59the different informal settlements but
- 00:21:01of course I am you know it is it is it
- 00:21:05is even more motivating that there are
- 00:21:07more conscious people in the world that
- 00:21:09are continually also fighting the same
- 00:21:10struggles and of course having a
- 00:21:12platform like this one that we can open
- 00:21:13the debate you know and discuss and
- 00:21:15exchange ideas of how we're going to
- 00:21:17move forward regarding our Liberation
- 00:21:19struggles it gives us more motivation
- 00:21:21and environment revolutionary seal to
- 00:21:23keep going so I think I will make us
- 00:21:25talk about that corporate and uh
- 00:21:29to keep going
- 00:21:35thank you so much comrade waringa uh
- 00:21:38comrade
- 00:21:41I think it's comrade waringa who will go
- 00:21:43on now
- 00:21:44uh because complete varinga sorry has
- 00:21:47presented and our comrade now that will
- 00:21:50come on uh comrade you gave us a very uh
- 00:21:53deep analysis of the extrajudicial
- 00:21:56killings as well as the framework of
- 00:21:59which the communities operate in Nairobi
- 00:22:02as well as greater Kenya but also the
- 00:22:05links to the international struggles
- 00:22:06that you have foregrounded with the
- 00:22:09paper that have accommodate Jeffrey in
- 00:22:12his uh very uh intellectually astute
- 00:22:15document through linkages as well
- 00:22:18there's an important point that we must
- 00:22:21consider going forward as well and I'm
- 00:22:24sure we'll discuss it much more and that
- 00:22:26is how do we connect our struggles in an
- 00:22:29international way that makes sense to
- 00:22:31all of us and to go together as a
- 00:22:34collective thank you comrade the flow is
- 00:22:35yours you may go on
- 00:22:43yourself
- 00:22:59I coordinate the social justice centers
- 00:23:01traveling together and a member of the
- 00:23:03organic intellectuals Network and the
- 00:23:06Grassroots Liberation movement so um at
- 00:23:09the social justice centers traveling
- 00:23:10theater we have I realized theater as a
- 00:23:12very powerful tool to advocate for uh
- 00:23:15social change and yeah it has been used
- 00:23:17here in Kenya particularly in our
- 00:23:20struggles it has been used in the fast
- 00:23:22Liberation struggle that was uh the
- 00:23:24community theater Group which was using
- 00:23:26uh open air spaces to advocate for uh
- 00:23:30University and uh we have also seen it
- 00:23:32in the second Liberation the five C's
- 00:23:34I'm sure uh Shiraz might know about that
- 00:23:37when they were fighting for their
- 00:23:39constitution uh that data was used under
- 00:23:42it's a you know it was used to mobilize
- 00:23:44people and to for people to be able to
- 00:23:46fight for themselves for their you know
- 00:23:48uh to understand the benefits of the new
- 00:23:50constitution so uh that in this bad
- 00:23:53Liberation we are also using adult the
- 00:23:55social justice center traveling data to
- 00:23:57advocate for um different uh so uh
- 00:24:00social injustices issues that we are
- 00:24:02facing in different uh informal
- 00:24:04settlements so uh we have members from
- 00:24:06our different social justice centers as
- 00:24:08you all know the social justice certain
- 00:24:10environment our members are all uh human
- 00:24:12rights uh activists who understand uh
- 00:24:15well the context of Human Rights and the
- 00:24:17Revolution and how capitalism has been
- 00:24:19functioning so the theater has been used
- 00:24:21to go to streets we mostly do street
- 00:24:23performances which are invisible uh
- 00:24:26mostly are invisible theater we are
- 00:24:28members of the community and do not
- 00:24:30really know that you are asking that
- 00:24:32they release a bit when we uh what you
- 00:24:35are doing and then uh we are able to to
- 00:24:38to make our audience also act as in our
- 00:24:41place so that they are able to come up
- 00:24:42with their their own Solutions so that
- 00:24:45we love the ones who are imposing the
- 00:24:46solutions to the communities which are
- 00:24:48I've been seen are working very
- 00:24:50powerfully we also have to not just
- 00:24:52theater but also do murals when I just
- 00:24:55was here last time we did uh he did uh
- 00:24:57different murals on um when our Ultraman
- 00:25:01in as an ash of our solidarity with our
- 00:25:03college
- 00:25:05and this has been um you know a person
- 00:25:08to to amplify our struggles especially
- 00:25:11uh when it comes to as our own
- 00:25:13understand our extra judicial clinics
- 00:25:16are you know uh unemployment drugs we
- 00:25:20mostly use uh you know seed performances
- 00:25:22to show the effects of these uh things
- 00:25:24and as as Michael Abraham was saying we
- 00:25:27have a very powerful Constitution that
- 00:25:30you have gives us a lot of Rights we
- 00:25:32have the right to house in the rights to
- 00:25:34employment the right to health care
- 00:25:36which will be lost up but then again uh
- 00:25:38it is impossible to implement uh to
- 00:25:41implement a constitution and then again
- 00:25:43our promotes our privatization the
- 00:25:45developments are privatization of basic
- 00:25:47community use so it is better it is up
- 00:25:51to us to questions on that even the
- 00:25:54Masters do not understand and do you
- 00:25:56know the masses are in now in the
- 00:25:58situation where they cannot do uh web
- 00:26:01analysis this means uh it will be hard
- 00:26:03for them to struggle for
- 00:26:04self-determination because we have seen
- 00:26:06things like uh drugs being used against
- 00:26:08the the youth and if you look at the
- 00:26:11struggle of drugs you will see that uh
- 00:26:12it has been a protracted to stand but
- 00:26:14you'll see uh for example uh when Jeff
- 00:26:17was here uh there was a mass eviction
- 00:26:19that happened
- 00:26:23there are 70 000 families what does that
- 00:26:27mean when we there are 70 000 families
- 00:26:29and uh you know there's a crisis of
- 00:26:32Housing and you know Constitution
- 00:26:33there's rights housing so that means
- 00:26:36that it is not working because again
- 00:26:37there is a privatization so we go to
- 00:26:39these communities and are conscious them
- 00:26:41about these things because when we look
- 00:26:43at our evictions it goes back to housing
- 00:26:45when it goes back to housing increase
- 00:26:47our third business
- 00:27:04it will be hard for you to you know to
- 00:27:10maybe drinking or smoking some things
- 00:27:12and all that and when you go to drugs it
- 00:27:15is very easy for you to call to uh
- 00:27:17police brutality because uh uh when
- 00:27:19there is no very much and we need to buy
- 00:27:21these drugs it means you go to cry you
- 00:27:23fall to cry but then again you look at
- 00:27:25where this crisis starts it started from
- 00:27:27where you did these addictions a lot of
- 00:27:29kids were never able to go back to
- 00:27:31school now they are falling into drugs
- 00:27:33now they observing it to climb and then
- 00:27:34not having starts traveling with
- 00:27:36judicial killings will not understand if
- 00:27:39you do not show them where is there
- 00:27:41where uh historic and this problem comes
- 00:27:43from so uh yes that is what we do at the
- 00:27:46shopping theater
- 00:27:49thank you
- 00:27:54thank you so much comrade menu indeed
- 00:27:57you have championed towards the
- 00:27:58contradictions of capitalism and the
- 00:28:00challenges you have today in the locals
- 00:28:03that you have given us the examples from
- 00:28:05of course you foregrounded theater as a
- 00:28:08resistance and of course the development
- 00:28:10of theater in Africa especially in
- 00:28:13countries in the North and the South
- 00:28:14here in South Africa
- 00:28:17and the South African resistance theater
- 00:28:20uh breast citizen revolutionaries comes
- 00:28:23to mind as well and those who are
- 00:28:25characterized by high levels of activity
- 00:28:26which you yourself have been doing
- 00:28:28together with the joint uh contribution
- 00:28:32by our comrade Jeffrey and the different
- 00:28:35aspects of the Kurdish struggle
- 00:28:37intertwined into your localized
- 00:28:39struggles as well and for that I must
- 00:28:43thank you
- 00:28:44for your presentation as well and your
- 00:28:47very uh astute insight into the
- 00:28:51challenges you have on the ground thank
- 00:28:53you for that uh it is one of our other
- 00:28:56comrades who indicated they will not be
- 00:28:59having a formal presentation is he still
- 00:29:02is the comrade with us uh ComEd
- 00:29:06that should have been here as well if
- 00:29:08the comrade easier and the comrade would
- 00:29:10like to share with us anything please
- 00:29:12feel free uh comrade one zero
- 00:29:16uh
- 00:29:23hello uh
- 00:29:26and ask for apologies to where he was
- 00:29:30saying he was not able to to to
- 00:29:34but she was supposed to share the same
- 00:29:36question of um
- 00:29:38how the social justice movement has
- 00:29:41emerged now the role of the women and a
- 00:29:43feminist network that are shaping up the
- 00:29:45struggle within the social justice
- 00:29:47centers uh and also she's been a key and
- 00:29:50a Founder co-founder of Madara social
- 00:29:52justice center and also she has
- 00:29:54participated in articulating the
- 00:29:56question of the police brutality a
- 00:30:00criminalization of the poor and she's
- 00:30:02also done some of the documentary in in
- 00:30:05Al Jazeera so some of those documentary
- 00:30:09will share and she's also committed a
- 00:30:12kind of for the campaign for free
- 00:30:14Ultraman and also
- 00:30:16ecological Justice movement yes that
- 00:30:19that's the reason why Community
- 00:30:21appeared on a behalf yeah but so um what
- 00:30:26else I just want to add is a team
- 00:30:29and our struggles for building up a
- 00:30:32Grassroots movement it is also because
- 00:30:35of the nature of the the Civil Society
- 00:30:38in Kenya uh and we have done a book
- 00:30:41called them in silence Indian Judas
- 00:30:44because reading the book official shivji
- 00:30:46about the NGO risk
- 00:30:49this topic is there in a Jeff paper
- 00:30:51about the crisis of neoliberal in in
- 00:30:54Africa and this book speak about in the
- 00:30:57last 30 years the challenges we are
- 00:30:59facing with the organizing in our
- 00:31:01informal settlement because of
- 00:31:03engineerization of social movement and
- 00:31:05I'm sure even in South Africa we have
- 00:31:07this crisis in the last three decades it
- 00:31:10has been very difficult because ngos are
- 00:31:13have come to the politicize the
- 00:31:15political the Grassroots movement and
- 00:31:18that's why the Grassroots Liberation
- 00:31:19movement is very critical on how to
- 00:31:21organize from below and following the
- 00:31:24Kardashian
- 00:31:25ideas and tactics on building a people's
- 00:31:28power from below so they think that's
- 00:31:31part of the thing that you would want to
- 00:31:33share the the book that you have done
- 00:31:34with the organic intellectual networks
- 00:31:37and uh wrote the experiential knowledge
- 00:31:41on the challenges and the limitations
- 00:31:43organizing in a space that's more
- 00:31:45dominated by NGO and um
- 00:31:49and a professionalization of the
- 00:31:51political activism
- 00:31:53thank you yeah so Diego I was just going
- 00:31:57to want to share a little bit about what
- 00:31:58we have done together already and then
- 00:32:01maybe open up to a question what do you
- 00:32:03think for you guys to think about what
- 00:32:05are the ways in which the peace and
- 00:32:06Kurdistan Network can best help amplify
- 00:32:09your voices so it historically uh uh I
- 00:32:13met gacheke in 2018 when he was uh he
- 00:32:16came to Cambridge and there he got to
- 00:32:18witness a little bit there was a strike
- 00:32:20going on at the time uh we met each we
- 00:32:22made a demonstration in fact uh but uh
- 00:32:26he invited me to come to uh he invited
- 00:32:29me to come to mathura and I came to Thor
- 00:32:31and I was blown away by the what I what
- 00:32:33I saw uh and then uh I ended up writing
- 00:32:37a piece called I jumped that was a
- 00:32:38roster and I and I came back to Kenya
- 00:32:41and when I was in Kenya we organized uh
- 00:32:43a variety of themes around uh this this
- 00:32:47thing that I'd written to engage with
- 00:32:49people at the Grassroots and out of that
- 00:32:51came a series of seminars that we were
- 00:32:52doing and we did we did one on roster
- 00:32:54resistance about rastafarianism and its
- 00:32:56relationship resistance we did one on uh
- 00:32:59women's Liberation the 21st century we
- 00:33:01did one on uh social ecology it's a
- 00:33:04revolutionary Paradigm and we did one on
- 00:33:06the legacy of Walter Rodney with the
- 00:33:07ground with the groundings with his
- 00:33:09brothers in particular so we so we had a
- 00:33:13series of events that were in different
- 00:33:15places different informal settlements
- 00:33:17and we used my presence there uh to sort
- 00:33:20of organize uh and and and push to the
- 00:33:23next level a lot of the work that
- 00:33:25they've been doing putting together a
- 00:33:26organic intellectuals Network putting
- 00:33:28together the the organic uh movement
- 00:33:31which is in tension with this NGO is a
- 00:33:34but it also has uh opened up amazingly
- 00:33:37in the last decade and a half I mean
- 00:33:39it's really spread out it's growing
- 00:33:41exponentially uh and so how we can how
- 00:33:44we as the as the as the piecing
- 00:33:46Kurdistan movement how we can help
- 00:33:48amplify uh uh and coordinate the work uh
- 00:33:52that that you guys are doing on the
- 00:33:55grounds in the ghettos and be thinking
- 00:33:57about the ways in which uh organizing
- 00:33:59with you is not just an act of Charity
- 00:34:01but we're really thinking about how we
- 00:34:02can organize internationalism in the
- 00:34:0421st century so that's the set of
- 00:34:07questions that I uh related to you what
- 00:34:08Inga I think you might have something to
- 00:34:10say about them you know I think yeah
- 00:34:11might not something to say about it and
- 00:34:12I'm sure it got shaky as well and so I
- 00:34:14think it would be good to listen to what
- 00:34:16you guys think about what it is that you
- 00:34:18guys find attractive about the PC
- 00:34:20Kurdistan Network and what and what kind
- 00:34:22of work do you think we can do uh
- 00:34:24similarly to this sort of what we did
- 00:34:26before with the set with the seminars uh
- 00:34:28maybe uh move towards a Grassroots
- 00:34:30Liberation album the concert and events
- 00:34:33that we could be that maybe we could
- 00:34:35help coordinate that anyhow that's just
- 00:34:37uh
- 00:34:39I want the floor to be open to you guys
- 00:34:43maybe maybe I can grow faster
- 00:34:46the thing is that um for many years the
- 00:34:49Kurdish movement has not linked up with
- 00:34:51the African struggle you know we have a
- 00:34:53power Factory open Africa movements and
- 00:34:56you know the the African Liberation the
- 00:34:59struggle that's went through uh that's
- 00:35:01South Africa began a very great struggle
- 00:35:04the revelation of South Africa through
- 00:35:06the support of the Cuban forces
- 00:35:09great struggle that has gone to uh going
- 00:35:12in in Africa and um and the thing that
- 00:35:15we are discussing and with Jeff is that
- 00:35:17the Kurdish movement as a an out of view
- 00:35:22all the struggles in Africa uh I I see
- 00:35:26that they have a history like the role
- 00:35:28of France
- 00:35:31and many many in many thinkings of that
- 00:35:35has shaped African uh struggle since the
- 00:35:39the time of the reparation of
- 00:35:43Independence Movement but um this has
- 00:35:46not been reflected in the country
- 00:35:49literature on how the Africans travel of
- 00:35:53self-determination and I think this is
- 00:35:55what we uh we are grabbing how how do
- 00:35:58the Carnation activists learn about our
- 00:36:01struggles in Africa and this is their
- 00:36:04own question on that um
- 00:36:06maybe they they have not realized that
- 00:36:09that Africa in an African youth can play
- 00:36:13a major role in articulating the vision
- 00:36:16of self-determination of the courage
- 00:36:18people because of the history of the
- 00:36:20colonization of Africa a division of our
- 00:36:23nationalities every Colonial boundaries
- 00:36:30their continued operation and
- 00:36:32dictatorship or fascism of our political
- 00:36:35leadership that that came after
- 00:36:36Independence is the same shared story
- 00:36:39about them the role the problems that
- 00:36:42have victimization of the Kurdish
- 00:36:44nationalities in Turkey by erogenism but
- 00:36:48very literuses have have been done and
- 00:36:51we are able to Jeff because it has
- 00:36:53reaching about this and why the Kurdish
- 00:36:55movement should focus more on linking up
- 00:36:57with the emerging Youth and radical
- 00:37:00social movement in Africa so I the thing
- 00:37:03is we need to have more seminars and
- 00:37:06that's the
- 00:37:08that is going on in Sudan is very
- 00:37:11critical but I don't think that our
- 00:37:13Kurdish movement
- 00:37:29in South Africa although there is a very
- 00:37:32strong key Link in South Africa and
- 00:37:35Mohammed I really appreciate but there's
- 00:37:37somehow sometimes it is anchored on a
- 00:37:39campaign of free Orchard but I don't
- 00:37:42think whether they have very strong
- 00:37:43political program of deepening political
- 00:37:46mobilizations and linking up with the
- 00:37:48Cabbage movement and also a it is the
- 00:37:52literature and writing around these
- 00:37:54issue that uh can help us Forge the
- 00:37:58experience of our movement building in
- 00:38:00Africa and the college I think this this
- 00:38:03is this is the event from Robert and I
- 00:38:05think the people of Jeff speaker how can
- 00:38:07we convince this kind of um there's a
- 00:38:10kind of a ideological seminars and a
- 00:38:13campaign graffiti as
- 00:38:19as a symbol of resistance I don't know
- 00:38:23whether Curry's movement also and I see
- 00:38:25some of them in Europe they know about
- 00:38:27the role of the Kenyan land and children
- 00:38:29army they don't have it how can we
- 00:38:31compare didn't Kima how can we
- 00:38:34contemporary articulate the question of
- 00:38:38the dead and kimadi and Jeff has written
- 00:38:41around that more that they unless the
- 00:38:43Carnage people also try to learn from
- 00:38:46their Matthias of our African Liberation
- 00:38:49struggle and it should be very difficult
- 00:38:51to connect with the African Youth and
- 00:38:53right now we are having a major crisis
- 00:38:55over IMF and world but pushing a lot of
- 00:38:59policies of privatization and policies
- 00:39:02of extreme taxation of the poor people
- 00:39:05and also making making
- 00:39:07a closing the Democratic space the same
- 00:39:10thing that's happening in Turkey against
- 00:39:12the Kurdish movement uh how how is our
- 00:39:16struggles being connected and I think
- 00:39:18that will be Estella here and she being
- 00:39:21a a long time
- 00:39:24Ally and comrade of the current movement
- 00:39:27are having interacted with the very many
- 00:39:29many college revolutionary attributes
- 00:39:32how can we see this in reflectional
- 00:39:35connection there is a documentary that
- 00:39:37has been done by Kurdish TV that came
- 00:39:40here in Nairobi it interviewed the
- 00:39:42former Chief Justice who also issued a
- 00:39:44suggest statement in solidarity within a
- 00:39:47Carnage at net demand for freedom of
- 00:39:49ultra and also it is spoke about the
- 00:39:52international conspiracy against
- 00:39:54and how imperialism uh concentrated here
- 00:39:58in Nairobi has continued to under online
- 00:40:00Democratic forces in the world I think
- 00:40:03this has not been well articulated by
- 00:40:05the Cabbage movement in different
- 00:40:07platforms to show Kenya as a space with
- 00:40:11a lot with a lot of resilience for
- 00:40:13resistance and and it can spark a
- 00:40:15powerful uh movement that that is that
- 00:40:20that can amplify the struggle of Kurdish
- 00:40:22people by showing how by exposing the
- 00:40:25links of of imperialism in in in in here
- 00:40:28in Nairobi by articulating the how
- 00:40:31Orchard was kidding up and why and how
- 00:40:34the malmals struggle and the struggle
- 00:40:36Progressive forces Kenya have been
- 00:40:38undermined by imperialism I think this
- 00:40:41this we have not seen in the Carnage
- 00:40:44platforms or in a carriage
- 00:40:46encouragement
- 00:40:48articulation and I think this will be
- 00:40:51important for us to move forward we need
- 00:40:54to see
- 00:40:56the garnish movement also willing to
- 00:40:58learn from our struggles and
- 00:41:00appreciating that even as Africans we
- 00:41:04have something to put in this in this
- 00:41:06space and shipping the the strong
- 00:41:09against imperialism and capitalism
- 00:41:16Jeff for preempting the issues of what
- 00:41:20our friends should request of us to
- 00:41:23assist facilitate and enable them going
- 00:41:26forward and ourselves for the Kurdish
- 00:41:28struggle in particular how to articulate
- 00:41:31those struggles to reach a point where
- 00:41:34we can speak together however it's
- 00:41:36important to understand the contexts are
- 00:41:38very a contextual challenges in the
- 00:41:42different regions on the continent
- 00:41:43itself are not exactly unique in the
- 00:41:47sense that all are the same and the
- 00:41:49solution for one would be the solution
- 00:41:50for all and Community is clear on the
- 00:41:53point that we need much more to be done
- 00:41:56and there is validity in what you say my
- 00:41:59comrade of course there is attempts made
- 00:42:02years since the early 90s in South
- 00:42:04Africa we've had Nelson Mandela who
- 00:42:07firmly stood behind the Kurdish struggle
- 00:42:09and in particular for the support of the
- 00:42:12Kurdish people at a deeper political
- 00:42:14level there is the blowback from Capital
- 00:42:17as well as those who have their
- 00:42:20interests not only turkey but their
- 00:42:22allies as well domestically and outside
- 00:42:25of the continent as well like we
- 00:42:28experienced during our struggles against
- 00:42:30a party there were those who had support
- 00:42:32of pariah States during aparctic and
- 00:42:35those who had support of the U.S
- 00:42:37establishment itself until 1986. we see
- 00:42:41much of that now in the kurdy struggle
- 00:42:43but more importantly in terms of
- 00:42:45international solidarity you are correct
- 00:42:47when you say that there needs to be much
- 00:42:49more done on the issue of Sudan Park
- 00:42:51itself or facing Kurdistan had as a
- 00:42:55webinar towards the senator half of last
- 00:42:58year as well where our comrades from
- 00:43:00Sudan were featured as well and of
- 00:43:02course much more needs to be done across
- 00:43:04the continent but you mentioned our
- 00:43:06comrade Shiraz who did it would be I
- 00:43:10think important company
- 00:43:14with us would like to share a few words
- 00:43:16as well on how to take this going
- 00:43:19forward based on the intellectual as
- 00:43:22well as the theoretical understanding
- 00:43:25but bringing practices and the way
- 00:43:27forward with that
- 00:43:29if we may please before yours come right
- 00:43:34okay thank you for that
- 00:43:36um yes it's a really very interesting
- 00:43:38discussion
- 00:43:40um I am a little uh handicapped because
- 00:43:43I'm not in Kenya so it's difficult for
- 00:43:46me to feel
- 00:43:48uh the reality show if you're not
- 00:43:50getting talked about
- 00:43:52the text is going up and uh the
- 00:43:54situation of the working people and so
- 00:43:56on
- 00:43:57but maybe I can back a few comments in
- 00:44:01general
- 00:44:06might also be appropriate I think
- 00:44:11uh in I think the important issue about
- 00:44:15the engine struggle
- 00:44:17any restaurant is that we are look each
- 00:44:22country or each region rocks at
- 00:44:26operating everywhere if you think about
- 00:44:28the real issue in Kenya uh uh is support
- 00:44:34this is
- 00:44:35planted or imposed by IMF World Bank and
- 00:44:40WTO
- 00:44:42and if there are tax increases if all
- 00:44:46the public services are being privatized
- 00:44:49it's not we tend to sort of personalize
- 00:44:54it with one person or one political
- 00:44:57party
- 00:44:58but generally you see what happened in
- 00:45:02in Britain uh where there was an attempt
- 00:45:05to bring some kind of
- 00:45:07change from the status quo and then the
- 00:45:11status at The Establishment directly so
- 00:45:13viciously
- 00:45:15that even today the labor party has been
- 00:45:17taken over uh by by the same forces so
- 00:45:23in Kenya is IMF
- 00:45:27um it is the case in the whole of Africa
- 00:45:29in Paris the whole of the world where
- 00:45:32the working people are suffered so then
- 00:45:35it is important for us to work
- 00:45:38together nothing this is where the
- 00:45:41internationalism comes in it that we
- 00:45:44really often forget and try to keep to
- 00:45:48survive economically and to to know
- 00:45:52about the apology extension local level
- 00:45:54that there is an international Dimension
- 00:45:56that we need to work with others so in
- 00:45:59that case since
- 00:46:14one for instance
- 00:46:17that uh secondly I think
- 00:46:20we are sitting here and talking but
- 00:46:23I really wish you would be to our key
- 00:46:26thing is
- 00:46:28our is to work with
- 00:46:31our workers and peasants
- 00:46:34it's strategies if intellectuals to sit
- 00:46:37in this kind of nice forums and talk
- 00:46:41about Revolution
- 00:46:44what the exactly needs to be done in
- 00:46:46terms of connecting with struggles of
- 00:46:48the working class
- 00:46:49and the peasantry is something that is I
- 00:46:53think often missing in many of our
- 00:46:56struggles
- 00:46:59um
- 00:47:05one on trade unionism one on mobile and
- 00:47:10one on people struggles
- 00:47:13what
- 00:47:15the consciousness of people the past
- 00:47:18Consciousness the circular classes
- 00:47:21needs to be brought forward
- 00:47:25you don't hear much about last conscious
- 00:47:27that where is the horrible issue facing
- 00:47:30Kenya in Africa and the working people
- 00:47:32around the world
- 00:47:34it is the imposition of capitalism
- 00:47:37and our struggle
- 00:47:39for Liberation which is our struggle for
- 00:47:42socialism
- 00:47:43but you don't hear much about socialism
- 00:47:45you don't hear much about capitalism
- 00:47:46because capitalism is everywhere
- 00:47:49it is 13 papers Consciousness the the
- 00:47:52cause of all our problems is capitalism
- 00:47:55and the solution is socialism and while
- 00:48:00before independence in Kenya
- 00:48:05and people around him there was a
- 00:48:09feeling there was awareness but what we
- 00:48:11need your socialism today very few
- 00:48:14organizations who talk of socialism so
- 00:48:18that is part of the first step we need
- 00:48:21to take
- 00:48:23but talking about
- 00:48:24organizations from the past
- 00:48:27where you don't even have
- 00:48:30Momo was an organization in Kenya
- 00:48:34where it is it's equivalent today
- 00:48:39in Kenya or in Africa where is the
- 00:48:42organization that will speak about
- 00:48:45the chain you you cannot have
- 00:48:48or hope for a proper organization
- 00:48:50without an organization which is
- 00:48:54socialist which is Anti-Imperialist but
- 00:48:57if there is no organization whoa or what
- 00:49:00is going to lead that struggle
- 00:49:03by learning from each other is to learn
- 00:49:06about organization I think ANC said it
- 00:49:10has become like uh what can we became
- 00:49:12after Independence it was it was brought
- 00:49:15over it was turned into its opposite so
- 00:49:18what we call it is
- 00:49:21the same same story South Africa it's a
- 00:49:25paper from South Africa were brought
- 00:49:29that Independence wins nothing
- 00:49:32after Kenya became independent Evolution
- 00:49:35became the same the settlers were there
- 00:49:37their land was taken away it was never
- 00:49:39returned so they gave Consciousness to
- 00:49:42in South Africa that oh it's it's fine
- 00:49:45don't fight Independence give them
- 00:49:48Independence for so long as you control
- 00:49:49the economy so long as you're going
- 00:49:51through the land and that is the problem
- 00:49:53in Africa Zimbabwe to doing this said
- 00:49:56painting the same problem so our
- 00:50:00discussion should walk as well on how to
- 00:50:02connect with the working class how we
- 00:50:04connect how we set about organization on
- 00:50:08Kenyan but on Africa level and then it
- 00:50:11can later with issue with or struggling
- 00:50:15people outside
- 00:50:16and we have a lot to learn from each
- 00:50:18other
- 00:50:20um
- 00:50:22then
- 00:50:24kind of
- 00:50:26an important issue around
- 00:50:29in in Kenya as well as the countries is
- 00:50:34Marvel was in France in its ideologies
- 00:50:37organization by the Trade union movement
- 00:50:40I don't know how many people in Kenya
- 00:50:42when they've heard the name of Barack
- 00:50:45and saying with that
- 00:50:47these were the characters who
- 00:50:51video gamma Pinto
- 00:50:54who will be acting their dreams
- 00:50:58with clear ideology which informed the
- 00:51:02ideology of Monroe
- 00:51:05and because of their success
- 00:51:08colonialism the imperialism the
- 00:51:11imperialist made sure that the protein
- 00:51:17laws and organizations
- 00:51:20that organizations
- 00:51:26union movement which was political as
- 00:51:30well as
- 00:51:31practical workers rights and they
- 00:51:34brought in code to an office Affiliated
- 00:51:36things
- 00:51:37and so the consciousness of its working
- 00:51:39class
- 00:51:41is stronger there
- 00:51:44is so some of the things that some of us
- 00:51:48are trying to do invention a few things
- 00:51:50one is
- 00:51:52the struggle at the influation level
- 00:51:55our brains have been stolen for our a
- 00:51:59content of resistance of imperialism
- 00:52:01socialism so one of the things we are
- 00:52:04trying to do
- 00:52:05it is also publish our own material
- 00:52:09which nobody else wants to touch drawing
- 00:52:12people this organization that published
- 00:52:14Progressive but a class conscious
- 00:52:17material so we set the vegetables is a
- 00:52:20very very small example of what can be
- 00:52:23done
- 00:52:24at the same time related with it is a
- 00:52:27composite Library
- 00:52:29information publishing is okay but you
- 00:52:33need a movement
- 00:52:40where there can be actions planned
- 00:52:43around issues that matter on the of the
- 00:52:47day so go with the library feels that
- 00:52:50are also the tool to get their work and
- 00:52:52work with
- 00:52:54Community groups and social justice
- 00:52:56centers and in other community groups
- 00:53:01working class perspective
- 00:53:04the
- 00:53:06actually the second or other thing we
- 00:53:08are doing is
- 00:53:11this as far as I know there is no
- 00:53:14socialist organization in Kenya but one
- 00:53:17missing link is
- 00:53:19uh
- 00:53:21a Trade union movement the British and
- 00:53:24Trade union movement so what we are
- 00:53:27doing the kunguzi library or is the
- 00:53:29books
- 00:53:31we are working with the Marx Memorial
- 00:53:32Library
- 00:53:35as we are developing a course
- 00:53:38on a trade unionism
- 00:53:40uh
- 00:53:42but interesting enough marketing where
- 00:53:44the library already had the course and
- 00:53:46trade unionism power and something else
- 00:53:49what we are doing is we're developing a
- 00:53:52new curriculum working with them and
- 00:53:54working with the composite Library
- 00:53:56to
- 00:53:57Kenyan context
- 00:54:00and possibly an African context
- 00:54:03in the training program so we'll be
- 00:54:06working on it and very soon in the very
- 00:54:08near future we'll be running the first
- 00:54:10course or trade unions uh
- 00:54:14through with Kenyan presenters with
- 00:54:17Kenyan content
- 00:54:21history and Kenyan present
- 00:54:25idea the idea is to attract accessories
- 00:54:29and tribunalists into this course and so
- 00:54:34that we start some kind of a movement of
- 00:54:37activists working in the political field
- 00:54:41Trade union movement in the community
- 00:54:44says Etc so that
- 00:54:47where it is start creating your
- 00:54:49Consciousness and awareness of of
- 00:54:52classes clusterical imperialism and
- 00:54:55interoperism so those are some of the
- 00:54:58things that we are working on in the
- 00:54:59questions how we can work together or
- 00:55:02how we can support each other I think
- 00:55:03these are some of the things we're ready
- 00:55:05to keep blessed in Kenya besides what is
- 00:55:08the community groups and the social
- 00:55:10justice centers are doing so maybe there
- 00:55:12is a need for some kind of working
- 00:55:15together around some of these ideas
- 00:55:18that's something
- 00:55:21thank you very much Cambridge Dean for
- 00:55:24sharing your views and input of course
- 00:55:27you emphasize the importance of working
- 00:55:30with Grassroots the working class which
- 00:55:33is well received and understood by all
- 00:55:35of us here comes Jeffrey Estella uh all
- 00:55:39of us in peace in Kurdistan understand
- 00:55:41well including comrade Sydney who was a
- 00:55:45very important in the formation of the
- 00:55:47UDF in South Africa and South Africa
- 00:55:50stands at episcopy where we've
- 00:55:52understood that to put it in Australian
- 00:55:55terms the nation state has failed its
- 00:55:57people because of the co-opting that has
- 00:56:00been so well articulated by comrades
- 00:56:03here in South Africa and elsewhere and
- 00:56:06of course the international
- 00:56:07organizations such as the IMF the
- 00:56:10international monetary fund the World
- 00:56:12Bank and the structural adjustment
- 00:56:14policies that have ravaged the African
- 00:56:16continent and other states as well
- 00:56:19throughout the globe the issue of
- 00:56:21leadership who leads this kind of
- 00:56:24Internet solidarity campaigns how will
- 00:56:26it be coordinated where must it be what
- 00:56:29resources do we have how do we
- 00:56:31understand that the example of reading
- 00:56:34groups and so on which are well known in
- 00:56:37starving movements but today we
- 00:56:39understand that the lengthy pieces of
- 00:56:42Publications no more get the deserved
- 00:56:44attention that they should instead
- 00:56:46people want short quick fixes to move on
- 00:56:49when you look at the trade Union
- 00:56:50movements and I will share a little
- 00:56:52example we met with our friends who come
- 00:56:54from the British trade unions a few days
- 00:56:56ago and they shared similar struggles
- 00:56:58that they are having domestically as
- 00:57:00well that accommodates in the struggle
- 00:57:02movements too don't want to be labored
- 00:57:04with much except that if it's a good
- 00:57:07cause let's stand with it but they are
- 00:57:09so unwrapped with the local struggles
- 00:57:11that the time for international
- 00:57:13solidarity has been put on the back burn
- 00:57:15and that was resonated here as well with
- 00:57:18us in kosatu a giant of a trade Union
- 00:57:21amalgamate Nation itself has been
- 00:57:23co-opted and the disgraceful way in
- 00:57:26which it has responded from Americana up
- 00:57:29until now when we've had individuals who
- 00:57:31were on our peace in Kurdistan program
- 00:57:33yamadiba crisis action committee as well
- 00:57:36as comrades from the abasali boson Jolo
- 00:57:39who've been targeted by instruments of
- 00:57:41the state itself so the attempts that
- 00:57:44are being made
- 00:57:45comradeen as you brought to us are very
- 00:57:48important in building the way forward
- 00:57:51and your emphasis on knowledge and
- 00:57:54education and the conscientization that
- 00:57:57must drive that and the absence of
- 00:57:59Socialism or as some year would say the
- 00:58:03ideas of democratic confederalism as a
- 00:58:06way in which the synthesis of the
- 00:58:08failures of those theoretical Frameworks
- 00:58:10that held Us in good Steed in decades
- 00:58:13gone by must now be renewed and
- 00:58:15re-looked at afresh
- 00:58:17before we continue further on those
- 00:58:19important points there is comrade
- 00:58:22wanjira who was here with us as well uh
- 00:58:25comrade does our comrade wanjira one who
- 00:58:28perhaps speak of the resistance with law
- 00:58:30as a weapon he's been very successfully
- 00:58:33used here in South Africa
- 00:58:35and I am sure with your linkages with
- 00:58:37them you can share with us here on this
- 00:58:39platform maybe comrade when jira who
- 00:58:42spoke so and articulated on the legal
- 00:58:45battles that they've been successful
- 00:58:47with as an instrument within the
- 00:58:49configuration of capitalist structures
- 00:58:51uh comrade waringa if it's possible to
- 00:58:55share with us a few ideas you have on
- 00:58:59the questions first initiated by comrade
- 00:59:01Jeffrey thank you comrade
- 00:59:09yes thank you very much and um Everybody
- 00:59:13watch for that movement and uh and let
- 00:59:15them and them and them Africa as regards
- 00:59:18the Lord question with housing questions
- 00:59:20absorb which we must and very much like
- 00:59:23to vote for uh within the record Network
- 00:59:26it is um
- 00:59:28which is best within the people of
- 00:59:29Madara it is best within the informal
- 00:59:31settlement of other which makes it very
- 00:59:34um which makes it very Prime you're not
- 00:59:36organizing within a people most depraved
- 00:59:38also of their social justice and human
- 00:59:39rights to organize them around the
- 00:59:42issues of um you know around the issues
- 00:59:44of social justice because again um you
- 00:59:46know one of the Articles of our
- 00:59:47Constitution which provides a very huge
- 00:59:49side of struggle is an article a double
- 00:59:52article 43 which is the article not
- 00:59:53social justice
- 00:59:55you know which provides and details
- 00:59:57social justice and you know I've been
- 00:59:59making the deal of Rights and of course
- 01:00:01we can take one of those and organize
- 01:00:02the people around them because for
- 01:00:04example we take the law question which
- 01:00:06is also that's an example the water
- 01:00:08question you know because most of the
- 01:00:09people in Madara clean and safe water
- 01:00:11for drinking so within that question of
- 01:00:14you know that the provision of the
- 01:00:16Constitution that there should be
- 01:00:17permission of water for the people you
- 01:00:19know the promotion of water the social
- 01:00:20justice right within the Constitution
- 01:00:22but then the people of madare
- 01:00:25you know of being safe and you know
- 01:00:27clean safe drinking water in the Dignity
- 01:00:29of you know of um something that's basic
- 01:00:32as toilets you know hygiene and
- 01:00:34nutrition you know within that article
- 01:00:36we use other Organization for example
- 01:00:39ngos that anticipation about you know
- 01:00:41there's some Progressive ngos when we
- 01:00:42speak about the question of you know um
- 01:00:44of neoliberalism within the NGO and
- 01:00:46discourse but they're also under
- 01:00:47Progressive ngos that we partner with
- 01:00:49which uh you know which can take up the
- 01:00:52you know the task of finding these cases
- 01:00:54he approach and you know these people
- 01:00:55are mobilized around those those um you
- 01:00:58know issues of um you know clean and
- 01:00:59Safe Water
- 01:01:01and then when it comes to the question
- 01:01:02for example of extrajudicial killings
- 01:01:04you know the victims or the survivors so
- 01:01:07to speak of extrajudicial opinions about
- 01:01:09myself
- 01:01:10you know through using the law for
- 01:01:13example
- 01:01:14um the formation of the women the
- 01:01:17formation of women and survivors of
- 01:01:19victims
- 01:01:20survivors movement survivors of
- 01:01:22questions of actual judicial killings
- 01:01:23affirm themselves as a you know as an
- 01:01:26organization based on the fact that most
- 01:01:28of them are brought together by a class
- 01:01:30action suit you know through public
- 01:01:31interest litigation cases that come
- 01:01:34together and you know these people are
- 01:01:35brought together to file their
- 01:01:36litigation to demand for example a
- 01:01:38commission of inquiry within those
- 01:01:40extrajudicial killings so now the same
- 01:01:42morning
- 01:01:49organize people around these particular
- 01:01:51issues a lot of those women form
- 01:01:53themselves with a public interest
- 01:01:54litigation case was formed around the
- 01:01:56issues of Western Judicial killings when
- 01:01:58it when it comes to the campaign for
- 01:02:00example of the United States what are
- 01:02:01those are also organized within that
- 01:02:03question so now am I taking up a whole
- 01:02:04company as I had said are you of
- 01:02:06apological Justice when all these spaces
- 01:02:08as well formed through this campaign you
- 01:02:10don't give you life you know that you
- 01:02:12know because
- 01:02:13um this articles of the Constitution can
- 01:02:15only get life if they are mobilized
- 01:02:17within the people because the most
- 01:02:18important thing is for us to our
- 01:02:20community agency because Community
- 01:02:22agency is the only thing that can give
- 01:02:24the people power to understand the
- 01:02:25self-determination is within within
- 01:02:28their reach
- 01:02:29and it takes them organizing and then we
- 01:02:31link them with the you know student
- 01:02:33activists with uh you know between
- 01:02:34lawyers within the strap you know other
- 01:02:37organizations also involved in this
- 01:02:38particular struggle to amplify these
- 01:02:40voices and amplify this conversation you
- 01:02:42understand them from very simple
- 01:02:44conversations that are very easily
- 01:02:45normalized within our communities so now
- 01:02:48National conversations that needs to be
- 01:02:49addressed because now that the president
- 01:02:51is speaking about its educational
- 01:02:53killings as his campaign rules you know
- 01:02:55that is of course a continuous thing
- 01:02:57that has come within uh you know within
- 01:02:58the process of this struggle you know we
- 01:03:00see them not speaking about the long
- 01:03:01question but this one started once a
- 01:03:03time normalized conversations like you
- 01:03:05have a lot of houses a normalized
- 01:03:07conversation you know killings on normal
- 01:03:09lightsabrization with Republic interest
- 01:03:11litigation cases organized into
- 01:03:12Community Within These public interest
- 01:03:14litigation cases they become National
- 01:03:16conversations when they become things
- 01:03:18that now um you know even the government
- 01:03:20through the executive in the parliament
- 01:03:21which is most probably are functional
- 01:03:23but the community can have agency to
- 01:03:25have what I expect with what Jeff calls
- 01:03:28you know revolution in consciousness you
- 01:03:30are different methods of um you know
- 01:03:32quantitising the maths
- 01:03:34political education which is most
- 01:03:36important one thing one thing I was I
- 01:03:39was gonna mention before we engaged them
- 01:03:41already uh and I think there's a lot of
- 01:03:43space for it moving forward is precisely
- 01:03:45organizing people around arts and
- 01:03:47culture so this is where some of the
- 01:03:50stuff that we know was talking about
- 01:03:51about the about the theater movement but
- 01:03:54also uh the Rastafarian movement is very
- 01:03:56interested in in pushing forward a
- 01:03:58Grassroots Liberation concerts around uh
- 01:04:01around the informal settlements uh
- 01:04:03throughout all of Africa but beginning
- 01:04:04in uh Kenya and uh I think that that
- 01:04:08that kind of space we can think about
- 01:04:10events that help globalize they become
- 01:04:14moments that could help people mobilize
- 01:04:16towards it and then it leaves an
- 01:04:17infrastructure and so I think with
- 01:04:19respect to some of the we bring people
- 01:04:21in not by promising them a reading group
- 01:04:23since they don't read but we but maybe
- 01:04:25we we bring them in with some Conscious
- 01:04:27Reggae music that uh that gets it in
- 01:04:30their head that maybe it's okay maybe
- 01:04:31it's a good thing to read and so total
- 01:04:34it's part of a process but using the
- 01:04:36arts and culture to to build
- 01:04:38infrastructure for uh Grassroots
- 01:04:41Liberation understood as
- 01:04:43self-determination and Community
- 01:04:44empowerment that's the only way that the
- 01:04:46social justice center movement can
- 01:04:47actually uh uh impregnate so to speak
- 01:04:50the the uh the the the the forces that
- 01:04:54the forces that are latent and and
- 01:04:56revolutionary at the Grassroots
- 01:05:00Mohammed can I make comments on the
- 01:05:03question you asked about the
- 01:05:05the please go ahead
- 01:05:08yes at least go ahead we'll see a very
- 01:05:11fundamental question about using a
- 01:05:14liberal Democratic constitution in the
- 01:05:16in helping to articulate the the
- 01:05:18struggle the people like the shark
- 01:05:20dwellers are doing in South Africa and
- 01:05:22the struggle that you have used the
- 01:05:24powerful framework of the Constitution
- 01:05:27to articulate those issues and I think
- 01:05:30even us is what we are trying enable the
- 01:05:32formation of social justice center as
- 01:05:34Community waringa has spoken about is
- 01:05:36borrowed from our Constitution which has
- 01:05:38values over
- 01:05:40human rights social justice itself an
- 01:05:43element of people's democracy cell of
- 01:05:46the termination and I thought we were
- 01:05:49borrowing uh on and uh and trying to
- 01:05:51create an environment that that can
- 01:05:54create seeds of building a power of
- 01:05:56working-class movement from below and
- 01:05:58that's why we are we our Democratic
- 01:06:00space that we can able to invite
- 01:06:02probably like Jeff it's come on
- 01:06:04convenient with us as ideological
- 01:06:06seminars on a the struggle of the
- 01:06:08Kurdish people in the same space that
- 01:06:11has allowed hours and comrade to
- 01:06:13establish the library and and many other
- 01:06:17uh many other platform that we are using
- 01:06:19but a Greek I would be a very strong
- 01:06:23with the commercials are saying that and
- 01:06:25the question is was to be done one we
- 01:06:28agreeing that we are borrowing tactics
- 01:06:30and strategy as a college Democratic
- 01:06:32movement has done but the the challenge
- 01:06:35we have and in our younger generation is
- 01:06:38to build an organization it has been a
- 01:06:40very major struggle at the moment it's
- 01:06:42not like South Africa where we have a
- 01:06:44different platform although Muhammad
- 01:06:46would have said they have been very
- 01:06:47compromised and corrupted by capitalism
- 01:06:50caption and we don't have a strong Trade
- 01:06:54union movement and in fact I can't think
- 01:06:56of any Trade union that is strong in
- 01:06:58Kenya even those who are based in the
- 01:07:00universities they are they still
- 01:07:02articulate the same issues of new
- 01:07:04liberalism self-interest even the
- 01:07:07children you know they don't link either
- 01:07:09with other trade unions they they think
- 01:07:11that we need to learn from South Africa
- 01:07:13and that's from your side is how the
- 01:07:15informal workers because of the big
- 01:07:17problem of their privatization
- 01:07:21um
- 01:07:22a lot of people have been laid off and a
- 01:07:25lot of work that is happening now which
- 01:07:27is a casual laborer like a women a women
- 01:07:30a lot of work that has been done by
- 01:07:32women and they are not a in an employee
- 01:07:36contract and a huge Hawking problem like
- 01:07:39in yesterday uh we lost almost 51 people
- 01:07:42who are Hawkers I like selling Machinery
- 01:07:45along the road and the trailer came and
- 01:07:48they lost their speed and crashed all of
- 01:07:49them just those are my tires of the
- 01:07:53working class or who a big crashed by an
- 01:07:55economic system like an electlessness
- 01:07:57over roads and uh economy that has no
- 01:08:00spaces for this kind of work I pay the
- 01:08:04Traders
- 01:08:07so I think the thing that you can learn
- 01:08:10through South Africa and I think you
- 01:08:12have started very well of how you
- 01:08:13beautify this in a casual workers and I
- 01:08:19think the idea of democratic
- 01:08:20conservatives is very passed by building
- 01:08:22powers from below as creating assemblies
- 01:08:25we tried here in Nairobi with the
- 01:08:27people's Parliament and also it is
- 01:08:29linked with social justice movement and
- 01:08:32I think the the idea of and that is
- 01:08:34where the the legal empowerment Network
- 01:08:37coming that is read by Warren that you
- 01:08:39can take a class suitcase off right to
- 01:08:42water
- 01:08:43take it to work to our court sometimes
- 01:08:46they make a progressive pronouncement
- 01:08:48then we use those Progressive
- 01:08:50pronouncements to organize our our
- 01:08:54movement but uh the key questions
- 01:08:56remaining with what she doesn't read
- 01:08:58after that where is a with a is a
- 01:09:02institutional political institution
- 01:09:03where we can use it to contest for
- 01:09:06political power I think that Jeff is a
- 01:09:09contestant because I know he's writing
- 01:09:11and he is a is he and also you have said
- 01:09:14it's a moment about those framework of
- 01:09:17the Vanguard party and the idea of
- 01:09:20having a political party as a vehicle to
- 01:09:22capture political power I know Jeff and
- 01:09:25uh many many communities are contesting
- 01:09:28that question and you have also said it
- 01:09:29how do you reframe those Theory and
- 01:09:33um uh
- 01:09:35theoretical framework that we used to do
- 01:09:37over class class and class analysis and
- 01:09:39abandoned party and there's a book by
- 01:09:42that's Estella and is named after the
- 01:09:45book for Sarah the book where they don't
- 01:09:48forget the name of the book that was
- 01:09:50written by that matter of Kurdish
- 01:09:52movement
- 01:09:54um let's talk about my whole life in the
- 01:09:57struggle and they speak very strongly
- 01:10:00about the history of the pkk and how how
- 01:10:04it had um it had a limitation in
- 01:10:07organizing and essence of now or
- 01:10:10challenge has written more about
- 01:10:12Democratic Confederates I think the this
- 01:10:15this is where we can say with it because
- 01:10:18we can't they they Trade union movement
- 01:10:21and Shiraz has spoken very well the
- 01:10:23Trade union movements of 1970 80s 90s is
- 01:10:27it the same trade unions that we are
- 01:10:29speaking about is it how we will
- 01:10:31organize the working class what will
- 01:10:33happen the ecological crisis how will be
- 01:10:36the working class being organized and I
- 01:10:38think that's where we are and we need a
- 01:10:41lot of research a lot of learning
- 01:10:43together on how to recognize millions of
- 01:10:46young people in Africa whoa have no a
- 01:10:49job how do you organize them
- 01:10:55and
- 01:10:57thank you my comrade gacheke you've
- 01:11:00summed up what's been said this
- 01:11:02afternoon very eloquently and very well
- 01:11:04and it is clear from what you've said
- 01:11:07that we need to work closer together
- 01:11:08down in the South as well as you there
- 01:11:11in Kenya as well as peace in Kurdistan
- 01:11:14coordinating and assisting and I think
- 01:11:16one way in which we can go forward which
- 01:11:18we concluded at the previous piece in
- 01:11:21Kurdistan seminar with friends from the
- 01:11:23Grassroots organizations down here in
- 01:11:25the South was that we must have a
- 01:11:28meeting or a convergence that you
- 01:11:30suggested earlier perhaps on a platform
- 01:11:32like this going ahead where their
- 01:11:35representatives can engage with you
- 01:11:37directly as well in the fall nearly just
- 01:11:41hosted by us Jeff and myself comrade
- 01:11:43Estella can merely moderate the session
- 01:11:46and so on and then we can converge with
- 01:11:48that as well however that is one
- 01:11:51possibility I see Community Stella as
- 01:11:53indicated to say something from the
- 01:11:56Stella please go ahead oh can you hear
- 01:11:59me yes yeah
- 01:12:02okay
- 01:12:04well
- 01:12:06uh I wanted to go into the question of
- 01:12:10what comrade has raised
- 01:12:14it comes up
- 01:12:16you're now pretty why the issue of Kenya
- 01:12:21radio new book when the other movements
- 01:12:24the building
- 01:12:26of a real movement between the different
- 01:12:31sections of society yeah
- 01:12:35so the focus of this has to be what is
- 01:12:39the issue learning
- 01:12:41you cannot
- 01:12:43actually
- 01:12:44if you're talking about Roger and the
- 01:12:48cats
- 01:12:49it is not a question of copy
- 01:12:53you know the actual
- 01:12:55hardship
- 01:12:58it is the question of understanding
- 01:13:01how the movement
- 01:13:04in India
- 01:13:06historically politically socially
- 01:13:09culturally developed
- 01:13:13and to understand it from the context of
- 01:13:17the Press International crisis
- 01:13:22a lot of people in this
- 01:13:25in this uh discussion
- 01:13:28appeared mentioned in British conflicts
- 01:13:32we are actually moving today
- 01:13:35internationally
- 01:13:37okay what face it global struggage
- 01:13:42what faces the global movement
- 01:13:46Bob faces
- 01:13:48the people from workers to Grassroots
- 01:13:51organize this sessions to all sections
- 01:13:55of society
- 01:13:57we are not in the normal situation two
- 01:14:01years ago three years ago five years ago
- 01:14:03and yes
- 01:14:06but my sense with respect one of the
- 01:14:17the ways in which a platform like peace
- 01:14:20and Kurdistan can be really useful to
- 01:14:21people we really need to be an open
- 01:14:25invitation like tell us what to do we
- 01:14:27want to figure out a way to coordinate
- 01:14:29trying to say it's you know the question
- 01:14:33is how we playing this discussion of
- 01:14:36course into for example in the market
- 01:14:39before the county okay
- 01:14:43but but maybe people should maybe people
- 01:14:46who are in the Internationals they
- 01:14:47should think about maybe taking a trip
- 01:14:49taking a trip to Kenya you know meeting
- 01:14:52up with the comrades of Kenyan and then
- 01:14:54maybe maybe when they're down in Kenya
- 01:14:55maybe maybe if someone could go out of
- 01:14:57South Africa and create real real links
- 01:15:01from these virtual leaks yeah
- 01:15:05well that is true but they have to find
- 01:15:08a way to the first book we are actually
- 01:15:11contacted yeah we want to clarify the
- 01:15:15political questions first that's why we
- 01:15:18are calling this sentence yes we do have
- 01:15:21already logic
- 01:15:23okay your apps your object is a very
- 01:15:26good one okay
- 01:15:28through the Arts itself you know there's
- 01:15:31many different leagues that can be
- 01:15:33shaped that go beyond just individual
- 01:15:37moves that's like hey can I say
- 01:15:39something just related to that is the on
- 01:15:42the organizational question I definitely
- 01:15:44agree we need organization but I don't
- 01:15:46agree that we need an organization I
- 01:15:48believe we need many organizations to be
- 01:15:50learning how to work together because I
- 01:15:52know for example with the Rastafarian
- 01:15:54movement you're not going to get any
- 01:15:55Rastafarians are going to be able to
- 01:15:57join the Communist Party of Kenya but
- 01:15:59they will organize an event again
- 01:16:02yeah you know precisely but in a way
- 01:16:06they have to work out in kids exactly
- 01:16:08that's what needs to be worked out and
- 01:16:10maybe we can play a role helping them
- 01:16:11work that out
- 01:16:13yeah we can play a role by actually
- 01:16:16using also the resources for example
- 01:16:21the funds
- 01:16:23at recently you know the try example in
- 01:16:28Cambridge the other and yeah that that
- 01:16:32is a blockchain well you know somebody
- 01:16:35like a chicken or our friend we know
- 01:16:39could be invited yes you know and be
- 01:16:43presented on platforms up and down they
- 01:16:46can't yes okay so that would be a way to
- 01:16:51break it off
- 01:16:53getting people to do delegations you
- 01:16:55know get organizing Spreading the News
- 01:16:58and getting people to organize
- 01:16:59delegations internationalists
- 01:17:00internationalist brigades going down
- 01:17:03spending two three weeks learning about
- 01:17:04the movement and that's being able to
- 01:17:06implement you know what laptop
- 01:17:10limitations
- 01:17:14itself which is my point it's true I
- 01:17:18mean
- 01:17:19many organizations have not stepped yes
- 01:17:23or Australian campaign in the UK lost
- 01:17:26its value yes it because you trade Union
- 01:17:29suddenly had their own problems too of
- 01:17:32course okay so on the other but on the
- 01:17:34other hand the the zoom meet this kind
- 01:17:37of virtual meeting is a lot more
- 01:17:39thinkable for people people can
- 01:17:41understand it a lot more than they did
- 01:17:42before and so we have to also despite
- 01:17:44the terror of this of the conjunction
- 01:17:46we're in we have to be able to think
- 01:17:48about what are ways that we can use the
- 01:17:50opportunities to present themselves now
- 01:17:51to organize International
- 01:17:54yeah of course of course you're not but
- 01:17:57anyway we are trying to do that debit
- 01:17:59yes yes all right otherwise I would push
- 01:18:03this product of course but not easy to
- 01:18:07organize no starting to tell you
- 01:18:10yeah we have what we have 12 people in
- 01:18:13it okay yes to about 120.
- 01:18:18yeah and I can tell you one thing is
- 01:18:21that of course if you happen the issue
- 01:18:24that is just of the color
- 01:18:26we subtly get on there on the issues of
- 01:18:30corresponding to for you know to the
- 01:18:34recorded message
- 01:18:36yeah people okay yeah hold it better
- 01:18:40so in a way it's a small indication that
- 01:18:44maybe
- 01:18:46good recording yeah but I think part of
- 01:18:49the issue is it like we think about
- 01:18:51raising raising Consciousness but it
- 01:18:54would be good if we could get some of
- 01:18:55our Curtis fries to come to these things
- 01:18:58yeah if we're organizing as peace in
- 01:19:00Kurdistan and there's no Kurdish person
- 01:19:01here
- 01:19:03okay can I give you the answer yeah okay
- 01:19:06the Kurdish people are in a
- 01:19:08in the most unconscious War yeah facing
- 01:19:13not just the church state but the Middle
- 01:19:16Eastern State and the international
- 01:19:18State yes that's true from the West two
- 01:19:22days
- 01:19:23to the South
- 01:19:25okay so please don't that underestimate
- 01:19:28that that urgency of those situations
- 01:19:31let's talk in the Middle East yeah
- 01:19:34people are killed every day we have
- 01:19:37hundreds of thousands of people in
- 01:19:38prison yes okay optional
- 01:19:43Etc
- 01:19:44yet the inspiration comes from there
- 01:19:47still
- 01:19:49you know some of the peoples for example
- 01:19:52I want to raise the issue of the network
- 01:19:56for alternative quests yes to try to
- 01:20:00organize a conference in Hamburg in that
- 01:20:03they try to stop they tried to stop it
- 01:20:05yeah
- 01:20:06I have a friend I think who joined us
- 01:20:10okay uh
- 01:20:12so maybe Sid could
- 01:20:16yeah
- 01:20:18now in terms of joining all these women
- 01:20:22who are good
- 01:20:24are somehow engaged in that struggle
- 01:20:27over in Roger
- 01:20:30and the the women who can't in Europe
- 01:20:34okay they are busy with organizing
- 01:20:38effects it tells only a few on top of it
- 01:20:42in the diaspora that we have in Europe
- 01:20:45who speak English
- 01:20:48okay yeah so I bought two race
- 01:20:51constantly it is because
- 01:20:56yes it has been since 1986
- 01:21:01yeah of course well that of course
- 01:21:05my work we stick out to the
- 01:21:07international movement
- 01:21:09yes
- 01:21:10yes and it seems to back to get back to
- 01:21:14your point I mean given the urgency of
- 01:21:16the situation right now now is the time
- 01:21:18to really be thinking about what is our
- 01:21:19plan of action because uh it's not like
- 01:21:22things are going to get any easier
- 01:21:23yeah of course but I'm just saying there
- 01:21:27are major problems involved even as a
- 01:21:30focus group like Eastern Kurdistan we
- 01:21:33have problems in having those people
- 01:21:35that we had them
- 01:21:40it's a real Challenge and I'm not saying
- 01:21:43one cannot resolve it but then for
- 01:21:46example I'll put the chicken that is the
- 01:21:49issue was our Kurdish friends and all
- 01:21:52that I have to say you know they are
- 01:21:55trying very hard to do their best what
- 01:21:58they can okay but they are in the
- 01:22:01resources at this present stage
- 01:22:08I think that had to do with the crisis
- 01:22:10of imagination people have a hard time
- 01:22:13you can say that there's there's
- 01:22:14revolutionary conditions but people have
- 01:22:16a hard time even beginning to imagine a
- 01:22:18revolutionary situation at the top of
- 01:22:21the world at all but they said not just
- 01:22:23but it is because
- 01:22:27yes yes right exactly exactly I mean
- 01:22:31anyway
- 01:22:33and you know but the importance is that
- 01:22:37we find information means to get this uh
- 01:22:41material that we have on this webinar
- 01:22:45out to the people here in the UK and
- 01:22:48anywhere where we can okay
- 01:22:50so and that is where Baku comes in and
- 01:22:54the recording of the issue but not just
- 01:22:57the recording but the organization
- 01:23:00through
- 01:23:02passwords
- 01:23:03wherever and if it means going to the
- 01:23:06people who are now on strike if it is
- 01:23:10thus what if it is at the railway
- 01:23:14workers or whoever it is you know
- 01:23:17because they will understand the problem
- 01:23:20it is that difficult okay but we need to
- 01:23:25have people to actually do this to go
- 01:23:27there to give out the book that's the
- 01:23:30Publications that we have we have
- 01:23:32various materials that we can easily you
- 01:23:36know data mobilize okay and we are
- 01:23:40bringing out a new booklet of chapstick
- 01:23:42okay on these
- 01:23:52yeah you communicate Marco you can
- 01:23:54continue recording
- 01:23:55when you are idiots then you can check
- 01:23:59out some of the things that don't need
- 01:24:00but you need to capture the debates and
- 01:24:03points that have yeah yeah
- 01:24:07maybe a little bit but it's but it's a
- 01:24:10necessary conversation
- 01:24:12um yeah
- 01:24:14anyway okay so I hope uh
- 01:24:21is really we have to get the material
- 01:24:24out and we have to use all these forms
- 01:24:26if it's yeah
- 01:24:29but speech white
- 01:24:33I think people to come to uh to London
- 01:24:38but I wanna I wanna push a little bit
- 01:24:40more on just what it is that we can do
- 01:24:42and what it is that we can think about
- 01:24:43he has peace and Kurdistan operating
- 01:24:46because it's not it doesn't seem to me
- 01:24:48to be a coincidence that uh
- 01:24:52my role in a lot of what's happened in
- 01:24:54the last couple of years is uh people
- 01:24:58are doing all kinds of stuff on the
- 01:25:00ground and then my appearance on the
- 01:25:02scene creates certain opportunities that
- 01:25:04multiple different people can come and
- 01:25:06do something together around the fact
- 01:25:09that this Cambridge Professor is here
- 01:25:11doing whatever Grassroots true or then
- 01:25:14people can get it people get excited
- 01:25:16about it it becomes a kind of an event
- 01:25:18that can be used to bring people
- 01:25:20together to build towards an event
- 01:25:22organizational capacity and also and
- 01:25:26also overcome inabilities to work
- 01:25:28together that are that uh it's very
- 01:25:32difficult for them to do so I think that
- 01:25:34I think that we need to think creatively
- 01:25:36about what as an internationalist group
- 01:25:39what we how we can create opportunities
- 01:25:41for the for the movement to for the
- 01:25:44movement of movements to uh work
- 01:25:46together on things and move forward
- 01:25:49yeah well
- 01:25:51I mean I have already mentioned the
- 01:25:53number of things yeah maybe yeah people
- 01:25:56maybe it got shaky or or whatever you
- 01:25:59know has something to say with respect
- 01:26:00to that
- 01:26:07are you still with us
- 01:26:10and that meaning that
- 01:26:14yeah yes to thank Muhammad
- 01:26:18the thing is um it's possible to
- 01:26:22uh to see how we convince some of these
- 01:26:26meetings and our materials uh we have a
- 01:26:30lot of materials shared by Jeff from
- 01:26:32that book of um
- 01:26:37and there's another book some of the
- 01:26:40books with materials will received from
- 01:26:42the all Kardashian movement
- 01:26:45what you're saying is that um
- 01:26:48and has since a complete Joe has spoken
- 01:26:51about the card issued move delegation
- 01:26:53that visited South Africa and also they
- 01:26:56are Kurdish a movement members who
- 01:26:59visited here in Nairobi and now we also
- 01:27:01working in a alternative a democratic
- 01:27:05modernity in a network were also
- 01:27:08involved in them
- 01:27:10yeah but I think there is a criticism
- 01:27:13that we need to bring out that um they
- 01:27:17really not
- 01:27:19and enable the kind of a patronizing of
- 01:27:22the sometimes when you meet the Kurdish
- 01:27:24use the ship and movements that and
- 01:27:27sometimes you feel like
- 01:27:28we need to accept that they can learn
- 01:27:31also from us and I think also I really I
- 01:27:34did participate in the Long March for
- 01:27:36for Freedom meaning with the parish
- 01:27:38movement in a blasted and Germany
- 01:27:41there's a video on that
- 01:27:43yeah but it is still old and I don't
- 01:27:46want to repeat ourselves myself too much
- 01:27:48more of it I think what we are saying is
- 01:27:50is it possible we continue convening
- 01:27:53this and and an encourage Movement try
- 01:27:56to have a uh an extensive focus in
- 01:28:00linking up with the the working class
- 01:28:02youth struggling in Africa and it will
- 01:28:04give the courage struggle a different
- 01:28:06perspective and character and and it
- 01:28:09will be it will be a very powerful link
- 01:28:11and I think that has not shaped up well
- 01:28:14I think that a first step in that link
- 01:28:16is for you with Mahmoud to uh for
- 01:28:19stronger links now because
- 01:28:21so we could still be thinking about for
- 01:28:24example organizing delegations that can
- 01:28:26go and
- 01:28:27sort of Beyond in situ uh in the
- 01:28:30different places uh but yes I think that
- 01:28:33the I think I mean that for many reasons
- 01:28:36South Africa has long links to the
- 01:28:39Kurdish movement of it and it's the it's
- 01:28:41the it's the door within which the
- 01:28:42Kurdish movement can enter uh into the
- 01:28:46kind of pan-african Consciousness but I
- 01:28:48think that you guys have to help you
- 01:28:50guys have to help them see what they
- 01:28:51cannot see
- 01:28:53I'm very happy with it and I'm sure my
- 01:28:55comrade
- 01:28:56want to make a contribution but I'm very
- 01:29:00happy because it's the first time we
- 01:29:01were meeting with Muhammad and there is
- 01:29:03very very powerful Division I I the
- 01:29:05other we're meeting Mohammed we were
- 01:29:07meeting with them Petty Bourgeois
- 01:29:09lawyers who say they were leading the
- 01:29:11campaign
- 01:29:13I'm here then they tell us to meet them
- 01:29:16in a five-star hotel in airport there so
- 01:29:19I was wondering that hi are they serious
- 01:29:24yeah
- 01:29:28and of course it's a necessary evil
- 01:29:31these meeting places that take place
- 01:29:33with lawyers in hotels and so on is the
- 01:29:36norm now from a Communist party members
- 01:29:39would meet in no other places than those
- 01:29:41Bourgeois places now unfortunately
- 01:29:43covered Sydney will tell you much more
- 01:29:46about that too if we would like to share
- 01:29:48with us however the focus of this
- 01:29:50Symposium was primarily the struggles
- 01:29:53for self-determination in the 21st
- 01:29:55century perspectives from Africa and the
- 01:29:59focus was on Kenya so thank you comrade
- 01:30:01gacheki for bringing that strongly
- 01:30:03across and yes congrat Jeffrey we can
- 01:30:05work much more together but with our
- 01:30:08friends here as well from others
- 01:30:11action crisis as well as the endless
- 01:30:15people movement across the country and
- 01:30:17those networks with us are quite good
- 01:30:19they were with us also at last
- 01:30:21conference for freedom for Ultra land as
- 01:30:23well and they they really are a girl
- 01:30:26organizing force and a catalyst and a
- 01:30:29means to strengthen your struggles there
- 01:30:31and of course the Trade union comrades
- 01:30:34who as individuals within the Trade
- 01:30:36union movement support us very strongly
- 01:30:39on the Kurdish issues as well and
- 01:30:41understand the International challenges
- 01:30:43that comrade Estella is rightfully put
- 01:30:46onto the Forum here where we need to
- 01:30:48understand those issues well we must
- 01:30:50clarify our positions as well because
- 01:30:53that is what we are all facing and
- 01:30:55working against but comrades Mino and
- 01:30:58comrade wanjira if you have anything to
- 01:31:00share as well in closing we must be
- 01:31:02mindful of the time we've just clipped
- 01:31:04over an hour and 10 minutes congrats
- 01:31:07Gerardo Dean has tended an apology in
- 01:31:09the chat he had to leave and I thanked
- 01:31:12him for his contribution especially for
- 01:31:14pointing out ujama and African socialism
- 01:31:16as well but Congress Mino please go
- 01:31:19ahead
- 01:31:22uh
- 01:31:23thank you uh thank you thank you
- 01:31:26Columbus for this uh contributions I
- 01:31:29want to agree on the second position and
- 01:31:32also on this position on our arts and
- 01:31:35culture so uh on that regard I want to
- 01:31:38say that I think it's uh it's high times
- 01:31:40that we start having conversations on
- 01:31:42how we can how we advance our support
- 01:31:44towards uh using Arts as a as a as a
- 01:31:48famous liberation
- 01:31:50towards our Liberation struggle because
- 01:31:53our cities are working in Kenya and then
- 01:31:55Jeff has also seen uh the impact of uh
- 01:31:58the murals that we have been we have
- 01:32:00been doing here in Canada so I think as
- 01:32:02as we continue having these
- 01:32:03conversations and as we continue having
- 01:32:06this meeting to make it a topic of
- 01:32:08discussion in our in our conversations
- 01:32:10because uh the the theater side
- 01:32:12especially the grocery markets are it
- 01:32:15doesn't call for these uh dialogues
- 01:32:17where you know there has been too much
- 01:32:19energy
- 01:32:22is very powerful because it builds where
- 01:32:24the people are and it makes people own
- 01:32:26their problems so that they are able to
- 01:32:28fight for themselves yeah that's I think
- 01:32:30that's what I can add
- 01:32:32thank you very much
- 01:32:38yes okay corporate um I think I would
- 01:32:42on battery
- 01:32:43wouldn't agree with it and say but also
- 01:32:46appreciate that uh you know when our
- 01:32:48comrades came you know for their treats
- 01:32:50in Kenya they brought so many books
- 01:32:51which are distributed around and then
- 01:32:54different parts of this different social
- 01:32:55justice centers within Nairobi and of
- 01:32:58course there are interactions with a
- 01:32:59good exchange between you know the
- 01:33:01Kurdish struggles and the Kenyan
- 01:33:02struggles but I think because criticism
- 01:33:05is that you know what was to be done
- 01:33:07moving forward was not actualized
- 01:33:09because it's um some sort of well let me
- 01:33:12not call it power struggle but some
- 01:33:13relation of some sort that would be best
- 01:33:15described as a power straw
- 01:33:17but um
- 01:33:18of course agree because uh you know
- 01:33:20being that the topics there was
- 01:33:22struggles for self-determination
- 01:33:24um you know all other conversation links
- 01:33:26link towards it because if we develop
- 01:33:28what uh you know if we develop what is
- 01:33:30to be done then it would be easy to take
- 01:33:32it up
- 01:33:33yes correct
- 01:33:35thank you comrade waringa wahome thank
- 01:33:38you for your input this afternoon as
- 01:33:40well congrats with Eclipse much of our
- 01:33:42time allocated and we should stick to
- 01:33:45that time frames as well in closing if
- 01:33:48there's any comrade whether it's
- 01:33:49comparative to Marco again convert Joe
- 01:33:51comrade Nick comrade Sydney Connor
- 01:33:54anybody who would like to give closing
- 01:33:56remarks please feel free and go ahead
- 01:33:58I'll just go silent for a while and feel
- 01:34:01free unmute yourself and please take a
- 01:34:04minute or two and share closing remarks
- 01:34:05as well
- 01:34:09I guess I could I could say something
- 01:34:10about so just uh I'm very happy that
- 01:34:13that this that this has come uh uh
- 01:34:17to fruition and I do believe that this
- 01:34:20is a work in progress but I do feel I
- 01:34:22begin to see progress things that it's
- 01:34:24been a few years that were ideas in the
- 01:34:26making that now have a kind of
- 01:34:27infrastructure that is a kind of organic
- 01:34:29infrastructure and uh the the I think
- 01:34:34that the way in which peace and
- 01:34:36Kurdistan has been working with the our
- 01:34:37friends at Kenya is something that uh uh
- 01:34:40we're we're getting better at it I think
- 01:34:42and uh we have to continue we have to
- 01:34:45continue with more events like this uh
- 01:34:47to continue and forging uh the organic
- 01:34:51links to these Tran these sort of
- 01:34:53virtual links turn them into organic
- 01:34:56links and then and then use the virtual
- 01:34:58to Pro to push forward the organic links
- 01:35:00more and sort of sort of play with this
- 01:35:02idea between the virtual possibilities
- 01:35:03and the organic realities
- 01:35:07so thank you guys yeah come with Connor
- 01:35:11hi uh thank you and thank you to
- 01:35:14everyone here it's been
- 01:35:16um I think a really great and a lot of
- 01:35:17really important points of conversation
- 01:35:20and um these are discussions I know that
- 01:35:22have been ongoing now for some time
- 01:35:24especially with Jeff uh coming to
- 01:35:26Nairobi and building the connections of
- 01:35:27the past years
- 01:35:30um so for me I I would say that I could
- 01:35:32uh very grateful to be able to be part
- 01:35:36of these uh places and spaces where
- 01:35:39these conversations are happening even
- 01:35:40though this is a virtual space but
- 01:35:42something that uh one of the great
- 01:35:44benefits of these technologies that can
- 01:35:45we can do these things one thing I
- 01:35:48wanted to say
- 01:35:49um
- 01:35:50just on the sheet on the theme of
- 01:35:52internationalism and Echo a lot of what
- 01:35:54has been said
- 01:35:56I think what's what's really important
- 01:35:58is is from my perspective
- 01:36:00you know in a
- 01:36:02in an era of a globalized world system
- 01:36:06the the fates of people and now it's no
- 01:36:08longer just a human issue but the fate
- 01:36:10of the biosphere the ecosphere the big
- 01:36:12thing the the world has never been more
- 01:36:14entangled together right in a global
- 01:36:17economy a global etc etc Global State
- 01:36:20system
- 01:36:21uh and so the
- 01:36:25as just as a matter of forces of
- 01:36:27conditions
- 01:36:28the question of internationalism or
- 01:36:30transnationalism or collectivism
- 01:36:33is imposed upon us just by the
- 01:36:35conditions
- 01:36:37uh with growing and increasing urgency
- 01:36:41and and the problem is two and it's and
- 01:36:45it's um really the problem of the
- 01:36:47age-old divide and conquer issue
- 01:36:49is that people
- 01:36:51are through different forces and
- 01:36:53circumstances in their different
- 01:36:55divisions orders conditions Etc
- 01:36:58and I think as as comrade Shiraz was
- 01:37:00saying really really well
- 01:37:02there is a though a singular World
- 01:37:05structure World System there is a common
- 01:37:07enemy and they're very well organized
- 01:37:09they're very centralized
- 01:37:11and they're very you know unified in
- 01:37:14themselves or they struggle very hard to
- 01:37:17be they're very concerned about
- 01:37:18divisions inside of themselves
- 01:37:21um and that's the whole point of
- 01:37:25dividing conqueror that's how it works
- 01:37:26is that you divide the other and you
- 01:37:28unify yourself to divide it
- 01:37:30um
- 01:37:31and so in that in that context of the
- 01:37:34situation we find ourselves the urgency
- 01:37:36of needing to find ways to come together
- 01:37:41um and with with the with the name of
- 01:37:43the game the name of the issue having to
- 01:37:45be self-determination the Fate the
- 01:37:48destiny of us as a species as a Humanity
- 01:37:51as a world
- 01:37:53um
- 01:37:54and I think that's you know on this this
- 01:37:57point that Jeff that Jeff was saying
- 01:37:58that that you the friends in in Nairobi
- 01:38:01have to
- 01:38:03uh find a way to help the Kurdish thread
- 01:38:06and see
- 01:38:08the issue right I think that's that's
- 01:38:10such an important line of that is that
- 01:38:12well who are the Kurds fighting NATO
- 01:38:15it's the same you know
- 01:38:17uh as you as you were talking about is
- 01:38:20um the IMF right the IMF leaves you know
- 01:38:25you can that's a great Global rallying
- 01:38:28point everyone can you know the the
- 01:38:29masses of the Indy five percent you know
- 01:38:3190 of humanity can understand the
- 01:38:33struggle with the IMF
- 01:38:36um and so I think it's it's so important
- 01:38:37to focus I'm sorry I'm rambling I'll cut
- 01:38:39it short it's so important to focus on
- 01:38:42these things that bring us together and
- 01:38:44as we've been saying this practical
- 01:38:46issues and of how we can use in this
- 01:38:47situation we find ourselves uh and use
- 01:38:49Technologies and different uh
- 01:38:52experiences and sharing and building
- 01:38:53abilities to go and travel and meet
- 01:38:56how we can use that to find ways to
- 01:38:58really try to to to bring and weave
- 01:39:01ourselves together as a movement of
- 01:39:03movements right the diversity is the
- 01:39:04string that's the great thing about the
- 01:39:06difference
- 01:39:07yeah um can I can I say something just
- 01:39:09related to those so thank you for
- 01:39:11everyone thank you everyone thank you
- 01:39:13it's been it's been an honor and a
- 01:39:14pleasure
- 01:39:15I think I think one of the things peace
- 01:39:17and Kurdistan can do is kind of
- 01:39:19articulate for internationalist people
- 01:39:20that there's you know there's other ways
- 01:39:22to organize in politics rather than
- 01:39:24trying to you know rally around Jeremy
- 01:39:26corbyn or Bernie Sanders there's other
- 01:39:28things that we could be doing uh uh as
- 01:39:31people with internationalist uh ideals
- 01:39:34so we need to be reaching out to
- 01:39:36comrades like how can we be of service
- 01:39:41you're not
- 01:39:42and I'm sure they have lots of ideas for
- 01:39:44us
- 01:39:46so yeah anyhow
- 01:39:49I I want to come to South Africa
- 01:39:53it will be an absolute pleasure to help
- 01:39:55you here with us please let us know when
- 01:39:57on road we'll figure it out we'll figure
- 01:39:59it out
- 01:40:00uh it's important
- 01:40:02yes
- 01:40:05and comrades
- 01:40:10yes uh it's important because you've
- 01:40:14done a lot of work together with our
- 01:40:15former chair uh the late judges samusa
- 01:40:18yes you dedicated a chapter in in your
- 01:40:20book also on our late judge as well and
- 01:40:23uh you correct when you say uh in your
- 01:40:26paper that foregrounded this particular
- 01:40:28seminar that Kenya is the symbol because
- 01:40:32that is where the international
- 01:40:34conspiracy against the Kurdish leader
- 01:40:37and the Kurdish movement was in its most
- 01:40:40brutal form where the capture
- 01:40:41incarceration and consequence thereof of
- 01:40:44him languishing on the island of imrani
- 01:40:46for almost eventually now is Kenya and
- 01:40:50therefore in your paper you know you
- 01:40:52gave the conclusion there which is very
- 01:40:54important and I'd like to
- 01:40:56re-uh paraphrase it in my own words
- 01:40:59a focus on Africa in general but on
- 01:41:02Kenya in particular is Manifest and
- 01:41:05manifold that is what you you wrote in
- 01:41:07the paper we are committing to telling
- 01:41:10the meta narrative both from the
- 01:41:11beginning and From Below which is from
- 01:41:14the ground in Kenya and Africa and the
- 01:41:17meta narrative that still are very very
- 01:41:20uh strongly put forward and we connect
- 01:41:23with the local activists at Grassroots
- 01:41:25that includes us here as well yeah and
- 01:41:28Amanda Lampoon to help them articulate
- 01:41:31those demands and to facilitate and
- 01:41:33amplify their voices you put that very
- 01:41:36very correctly okay and this for those
- 01:41:38and these are abundant around the globe
- 01:41:42those struggles are and my company got
- 01:41:44checked the Kurdish people are fighting
- 01:41:46not only NATO's second most powerful
- 01:41:49turkey defecting the US France and
- 01:41:52Britain including Iran Iraq turkey and
- 01:41:55Syria
- 01:41:56reflecting all of those States as well
- 01:41:58and they're fighting those in our own
- 01:42:01countries who are complicit with those
- 01:42:04Regional Imperial governments as well as
- 01:42:07the international ones as well including
- 01:42:09the arms industry and so on they eat so
- 01:42:11much yeah you know so the key to
- 01:42:14connecting the struggles as you say is
- 01:42:16to bring us together for what must be
- 01:42:18done and yes combat Sydney has given us
- 01:42:20a whole lot of resources available from
- 01:42:23down here in the South ilvis aidc and so
- 01:42:27on those resource resource-based
- 01:42:30organizations have been doing a lot of
- 01:42:31work for for a long time and a lot of
- 01:42:34the literature and work covers things
- 01:42:37that we know about this welcome that
- 01:42:38Jeff is very articulate in it whether
- 01:42:40it's from Walter Rodney to France found
- 01:42:42on including the labor movement and
- 01:42:44struggles in South Africa and the
- 01:42:46working class here and the forms of
- 01:42:49resistance and how it's endured over
- 01:42:50time and the new configured
- 01:42:52International struggles we faced with
- 01:42:55here in South Africa as well from load
- 01:42:57shedding to Shell to British Petroleum
- 01:42:59the mining industrial complex as labor
- 01:43:02of their Blanche somebody referred to
- 01:43:04those are struggles we have so the first
- 01:43:06step as you say complete Jeff is to
- 01:43:09forge the organic links amongst the
- 01:43:12activists and for a long time so as we
- 01:43:17converge our trajectories in this
- 01:43:19conjecture we find ourselves the new
- 01:43:21must be born and in the words of gramsky
- 01:43:24100 years on on the cusp of the Luzan
- 01:43:27treaty
- 01:43:282023 that's taking place in July there's
- 01:43:31a railing called by our friends from the
- 01:43:33trade unions so comrade
- 01:43:36all your Grassroots organizations should
- 01:43:38pin a letter of support for that meeting
- 01:43:40to take place in July I'll share with
- 01:43:43you of that and I'm sure completely
- 01:43:45still lie in many Communications will
- 01:43:47share that as well and that is also a
- 01:43:50step for international solidarity I
- 01:43:52would like to give one example in
- 01:43:53closing from the Kurdish movement when I
- 01:43:56had the honor and privilege to meet one
- 01:43:57of the leaders accommended result soon
- 01:44:00many years ago with the net comrade
- 01:44:02judge as well I was given an opportunity
- 01:44:04to engage for a long time with a very
- 01:44:07senior comedy and when I asked him one
- 01:44:10question what has kept you going for all
- 01:44:14this time to remain committed and
- 01:44:15principled unlike some countries
- 01:44:17post-revolution he said it is the book
- 01:44:21Apple gave me that spoke about the
- 01:44:24struggles of the people in Africa
- 01:44:25against colonialism
- 01:44:28that is what I was told and that
- 01:44:31sustaining you could definitely of the
- 01:44:33struggles of the people in Mozambique
- 01:44:35besides South Africa the pan-africanist
- 01:44:38Poco azapo all the different
- 01:44:41organizations he could even explain to
- 01:44:44me in detail the struggles up north from
- 01:44:46The Mao Mao as well as to those that
- 01:44:49formed in other parts in Algeria Tunisia
- 01:44:51and so on including the West as well so
- 01:44:55the leaders and those who are the cadres
- 01:44:58in the Kurdish movement are very
- 01:45:00familiar with the African struggles and
- 01:45:02these words were keep on doing what you
- 01:45:04do because you inspire us to continue
- 01:45:07with your strength and resolve when you
- 01:45:09could have chosen differently It Is by
- 01:45:12choice in your freedom that you've
- 01:45:14chosen to continue your solidarity with
- 01:45:16us and I could I'd like to also just
- 01:45:19emphasize the words of late Cal comrade
- 01:45:21Oliver Tambo when he said our solidarity
- 01:45:24will remain where those who are in the
- 01:45:27struggles against oppress
- 01:45:28Palestine as the picture is there in the
- 01:45:31room behind your comrade early struggled
- 01:45:34as well the pkk the release for Abdullah
- 01:45:36is key to resolving the issue in the
- 01:45:40western Asia Middle East as well as an
- 01:45:42inspiration for the rest of the globe so
- 01:45:45those are my closing summations and I
- 01:45:48thank everybody for being
- 01:45:50presently
- 01:45:52Jeff thank you so much for all the work
- 01:45:55you've done comrade Sydney for being
- 01:45:57here with us combo Joe Marco Nico Alden
- 01:46:00comrade siraju had to leave us please
- 01:46:04conveyor with profound thanks to him as
- 01:46:06well and of course to those who very
- 01:46:09easily spend their time here as well
- 01:46:11comrade
- 01:46:15if we look forward to continuing our
- 01:46:18work together and we look forward to the
- 01:46:20edited version of this afternoon seminar
- 01:46:23it's eclipsed much more than the
- 01:46:25official two hours we allocate normally
- 01:46:27but it's time well spent and we've
- 01:46:29managed to also overcome some of the
- 01:46:31thorny issues that we must if you take
- 01:46:34the analogy from uh comrade Abdullah
- 01:46:36when he speaks about self-defense and
- 01:46:38the symbol of the roads which ComEd uh
- 01:46:41Jeffrey also included in his
- 01:46:43documentation that the Roses beautiful
- 01:46:45as it is also has forms on the stem and
- 01:46:48we need to overcome those together
- 01:46:51so on those notes I thank everybody for
- 01:46:54your time strengthen solidarity for
- 01:46:56everybody and the struggle continues and
- 01:46:59it's never been an easy ride and it
- 01:47:01won't be but the fruits of our labor
- 01:47:03will be born thank you very much
- 01:47:06to all
- 01:47:07[Music]
- 01:47:10right
- 01:47:13thank you
- 01:47:15[Music]
- Self-Determination
- Kenya
- Kurdish Struggle
- Grassroots Movements
- Neocolonialism
- Neoliberalism
- International Solidarity
- Arts in Activism
- Legal Empowerment
- Socialism