Exclusive: Rajdeep Sardesai In Conversation With N.R. Narayana Murthy & Sudha Murty
Résumé
TLDRThis insightful discussion with Naran and Sudha Murti delves into their lives, highlighting their partnership in building Infosys and their values shaped by middle-class backgrounds. Naran shares his views on hard work and productivity, while Sudha reflects on balancing family life and maintaining joy in their work. The couple discusses sacrifices, the importance of gratitude, and the evolutionary journey of their careers. They also contrast the difficulties of starting a business in India during the 1970s and 1980s with the much-facilitated startup environment today, crediting reforms and supportive leaders. Their narrative serves as a source of inspiration for aspiring entrepreneurs and emphasizes the significance of personal relationships and values.
A retenir
- 💼 Naran Murti emphasizes hard work as crucial for societal contribution.
- ❤️ Sudha Murti values enjoying work and family life simultaneously.
- 💡 Sacrifices made in early years paved the way for success.
- 🌍 Middle-class origins instilled strong ethical values.
- 🙏 Gratitude is central to their philosophy of life and work.
- 📈 The evolution of their views on work-life balance over time.
- 🛠️ Acknowledging past challenges showcases resilience in entrepreneurship.
- 🏢 Comparison of bureaucratic hurdles then vs. the ease of current times.
- 📚 The book sheds light on their human, relatable experiences.
- 🤝 Partnership in life and work has been key to their journey.
Chronologie
- 00:00:00 - 00:05:00
The introduction welcomes the Mortis, highlighting their significance as pioneers of India's entrepreneurial middle class. They discuss their new book, which reflects on their early life together.
- 00:05:00 - 00:10:00
Naran Murti addresses recent controversy over his comments on working long hours, defending the notion of hard work and responsibility towards society, while Sudha Murti supports a balanced view of work and family life.
- 00:10:00 - 00:15:00
The couple reflects on how they raised their children with support from each other, acknowledging their respective contributions and the importance of quality time over quantity during their upbringing.
- 00:15:00 - 00:20:00
Sudha Murti describes her unwavering support for Naran during his entrepreneurial journey, emphasizing that their love and partnership allowed them to navigate challenges together without regrets about missed occasions.
- 00:20:00 - 00:25:00
Naran acknowledges the sacrifices Sudha made for him, expressing gratitude while highlighting personal values he learned about the importance of support and gratitude in a partnership.
- 00:25:00 - 00:30:00
The conversation shifts to how they balanced their relationship with familial roles, with Sudha asserting her own successes while supporting Naran's ambitions, both feeling fulfilled in their respective paths.
- 00:30:00 - 00:35:00
Their relationship is characterized by mutual respect and understanding, valuing their individual contributions while recognizing the importance of family and societal responsibilities.
- 00:35:00 - 00:40:00
Sudha shares her perspective on middle-class values that shaped their approach to life, while Naran reflects on the entrepreneurial challenges faced in the past, contrasting with the current business landscape.
- 00:40:00 - 00:46:25
The dialogue concludes with a humorous episode of their relationship, illustrating enduring love and commitment to humility and social responsibility, embodying their belief that hard work and honesty are central to their success.
Carte mentale
Vidéo Q&R
What is Naran Murti's stance on work hours?
Naran Murti believes in working hard and being productive, advocating for a commitment to contribute to society.
How does Sudha Murti view work-life balance?
Sudha Murti emphasizes enjoying work and finding joy in both professional and family life.
What sacrifices did Sudha Murti make for Naran Murti's career?
Sudha supported Naran's entrepreneurial journey by providing financial assistance and prioritizing family.
What are the core values of the Murti couple?
Honesty, hard work, discipline, and a commitment to family are central to their values.
How did they cope with challenges in the early years?
They approached hardships with a resilient mindset, focusing on gratitude and making the best of situations.
What themes are explored in their story?
Middle-class origins, values, entrepreneurship challenges, and the power of partnership are key themes.
What impact did Indian socio-economic changes have on them?
Liberalization helped ease business operations compared to the bureaucratic challenges of the past.
What role does gratitude play in their lives?
Both Naran and Sudha highlight the importance of being grateful for support and opportunities throughout their journey.
What does Sudha think about their children's perception of their parenting?
Sudha believes the quality of time spent is more important than quantity in parenting.
How have their views on work and success evolved over time?
With experience, they've learned that achieving balance and fulfillment in life must accompany hard work.
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- 00:00:00hello and welcome to an India Today
- 00:00:02special with a couple that I would like
- 00:00:04to describe as the first couple of
- 00:00:08India's great middle class
- 00:00:12entrepreneurial startup dream delighted
- 00:00:15to be joined today by the iconic Naran
- 00:00:19morti and some would say his better half
- 00:00:23sudha morti appreciate both of you
- 00:00:25joining us the occasion is also special
- 00:00:28an uncommon love the early life of sudha
- 00:00:31and Naran morti is a new book that has
- 00:00:33been brought out by juggernaut with
- 00:00:36chitra banerji DEA karuni the author
- 00:00:39also joining us from America appreciate
- 00:00:43all of you joining us on uh the show
- 00:00:45thank you very much namaskar it's always
- 00:00:47a pleasure Raj you know I want to start
- 00:00:52before I delve into the book with a
- 00:00:55controversy that has erupted over Mr
- 00:00:59morti your comments uh recently that
- 00:01:02Indians should work 70h hour weeks that
- 00:01:05stirred a controversy and as the book
- 00:01:08also reveals there's a parallel theme
- 00:01:09that you definitely work more than 70
- 00:01:11hours a week when you are building uh
- 00:01:14infosis and more are you sticking by the
- 00:01:17comments given the backlash that you've
- 00:01:19received people saying does Mr morti
- 00:01:21understand that today's India wants a
- 00:01:23work life
- 00:01:25balance
- 00:01:27well I used to work 85 to 90 hours a
- 00:01:33week definitely till I
- 00:01:37retired number
- 00:01:40two
- 00:01:42I received
- 00:01:44scholarship right from my pre University
- 00:01:47in
- 00:01:491961 number two all my friends who went
- 00:01:52to engineering College
- 00:01:55they received lot of help from the
- 00:01:58government in terms of their fee
- 00:02:00being a highly discounted
- 00:02:03figure therefore my view has always been
- 00:02:07that those of us in India who have
- 00:02:10received so much benefit from the
- 00:02:12country from the
- 00:02:14taxpayer have an enormous
- 00:02:17responsibility to work very very hard to
- 00:02:23bring
- 00:02:24a chance for the betterment of life of
- 00:02:28the poorer sections of the society
- 00:02:31therefore I don't regret it you're
- 00:02:33sticking by your comments absolutely 70
- 00:02:35hour weeks should be there to give as a
- 00:02:37way to give back to society no Raj I
- 00:02:40don't think 70 is important all that it
- 00:02:44means is you have to be very productive
- 00:02:46you have to work very hard like the
- 00:02:48Germans did after the World War I like
- 00:02:51the Japanese did and we owe it to the
- 00:02:55poor people in our society to work hard
- 00:03:00and make the quality of their life a
- 00:03:03little bit better you share his view of
- 00:03:0670-hour week you agree that you know you
- 00:03:09have to be there all the time in a way
- 00:03:11in the office grinding away no not that
- 00:03:14way because at least for both of us work
- 00:03:18was always a joy so it was not grinding
- 00:03:21or anything I even I work more than 70
- 00:03:23hours at this age because it is like
- 00:03:26work is different oh you can't share
- 00:03:30family life it is not true we can still
- 00:03:32do that along with the work like you
- 00:03:34come home you know I'm in the kitchen
- 00:03:36he'll come and help is it not spending
- 00:03:38time together so my definition is you
- 00:03:41should enjoy your work you should be
- 00:03:43passionate about your work the work is
- 00:03:46holiday then you know because today's
- 00:03:47generation says we need a work life
- 00:03:49balance what about our mental health if
- 00:03:51we spend so much time working when will
- 00:03:54we genuinely enjoy life what is enjoying
- 00:03:57life I always enjoyed working my work as
- 00:04:00well as working with him and working
- 00:04:02together in the house you know Raj
- 00:04:04before interject here yes I think it was
- 00:04:0798 or 99 I don't remember that was a
- 00:04:11year when
- 00:04:12uh uh I was voted the best SE of the
- 00:04:17Year by the economic Times 98 I think 98
- 00:04:21probably at that there was a panel
- 00:04:23discussion
- 00:04:25where uh my friend Shri Ki KT uh
- 00:04:30uh was
- 00:04:32participating and one of the people the
- 00:04:35the the uh the interviewer asked him
- 00:04:39what is your uh view on work life
- 00:04:42balance he made a very important
- 00:04:44statement that has stood as The Guiding
- 00:04:47Light for me he said look we in India
- 00:04:50must first get a
- 00:04:52life and then talk of work life balance
- 00:04:56I think it was a fantastic statement by
- 00:04:59Shri Comm I am very inded to him for
- 00:05:04making this whole philosophy very clear
- 00:05:08in that short sentence you know because
- 00:05:11there is a parallel to this in the book
- 00:05:13and we're coming to the book in a moment
- 00:05:14because in the book it is revealed that
- 00:05:18you were seen by your children
- 00:05:19particularly your daughter akata as a
- 00:05:22bonus dad that you often missed special
- 00:05:25occasions while they were growing up
- 00:05:26because you weren't at home most of the
- 00:05:28time that your first and second love
- 00:05:31according to a colleague was infosis the
- 00:05:33children was somewhere there but first
- 00:05:35and second love was infosis so you don't
- 00:05:38have any regrets they were growing up
- 00:05:40and Mr morti was uh busy building his
- 00:05:43company I was there you were there then
- 00:05:46and my parents stayed downstairs I
- 00:05:48stayed upstairs so it is not like you
- 00:05:50know morti should be there always he
- 00:05:52whenever he has time he'll take them out
- 00:05:54he'll spend time with them and you know
- 00:05:57when it a home time it was a M's time
- 00:06:00always it's his time you always call him
- 00:06:02morti yeah ever even now from the first
- 00:06:05day that you met him he was 1974 on okay
- 00:06:09October 4th or fifth I met him fourth
- 00:06:11fifth I think it's actually 50 years
- 00:06:13therefore since you first met each other
- 00:06:15in 1974 but so you don't think that it's
- 00:06:18a you know fathers not spending their
- 00:06:20birthdays or special occasions with
- 00:06:23their children uh should matter I will
- 00:06:26tell you morti comes from a family
- 00:06:30and background where we did not have any
- 00:06:33connection political connection money or
- 00:06:36anything we are Ordinary People and it
- 00:06:39is not like a cindella you touch
- 00:06:41something you have a castle you become a
- 00:06:43princess how a person like morti coming
- 00:06:46from a normal background build a great
- 00:06:49company like infosis in 30 40 years it
- 00:06:52sheer hard work of course grace of God
- 00:06:56good colleagues
- 00:06:58teamwork tell me how he can do so when
- 00:07:02husband is doing a great work like this
- 00:07:04wife should stand and say look your APPA
- 00:07:06is working very hard for a reason your
- 00:07:09birthday is there my father was there my
- 00:07:12sister was there my mother was there so
- 00:07:15I never told them no no it's very
- 00:07:17important your father should come I said
- 00:07:19we will celebrate at home but APPA care
- 00:07:22for you APPA cares for you when he comes
- 00:07:25home he spends entire time with you so I
- 00:07:28support morti looking more serious when
- 00:07:30I asked that bonus dad your daughter say
- 00:07:32you are a bonus dad you regreted all
- 00:07:34these years later maybe I should have
- 00:07:36been there when the cake was being cut
- 00:07:38at home when there was a special
- 00:07:39occasion parents Teachers Association
- 00:07:41meeting suda G going there you're not
- 00:07:43available okay no not really not really
- 00:07:46it's okay
- 00:07:48because I always believed that quality
- 00:07:52is more important than quantity you know
- 00:07:55I used to leave for office at 6:
- 00:07:58a.m.
- 00:08:00and I would
- 00:08:01return by about
- 00:08:039:15 I would leave the office at 8:30 M
- 00:08:07would leave 5 minutes after I
- 00:08:10left
- 00:08:12and as soon as I reached home children
- 00:08:15would be at the gate so that children
- 00:08:18they would get into the car then my
- 00:08:20father-in-law would get into the car and
- 00:08:22we would go to maast or whatever the
- 00:08:25food they like either pizza or some uh
- 00:08:29Punjabi dishes whatever it is and we
- 00:08:32used to have lots of fun during that
- 00:08:34time those hour and a half two hours was
- 00:08:39most relaxing for the children that's
- 00:08:42one the second principle that I have
- 00:08:44always followed I have told everybody
- 00:08:47including my sisters is this
- 00:08:52look you don't need me when everything
- 00:08:55is going well however if there is any
- 00:09:00time that you have a difficulty I will
- 00:09:03always be there for you I will make sure
- 00:09:06that you come out of that difficulty if
- 00:09:09you're not well I will be there to take
- 00:09:12you to the hospital all of that in other
- 00:09:15words it is not the quantity that is
- 00:09:18important it is the quality I take your
- 00:09:20point but as I see in the book it was
- 00:09:23sudaji who was really nurturing and
- 00:09:26ensuring that akata and Rohan through
- 00:09:29their difficult times children ill uh
- 00:09:32through all those tough times she was
- 00:09:34there morti was in America or some part
- 00:09:37of the World building his his business
- 00:09:40not everyone is as driven as him
- 00:09:42possibly to work those groing hours 6:00
- 00:09:44a.m. to 9:15 Raj your father was a
- 00:09:46cricketer so you know that when you have
- 00:09:49a good partner then only you can get a
- 00:09:52century yeah he was traveling he
- 00:09:54traveled so you're saying that you were
- 00:09:56the good partner who we together
- 00:09:59we together we partnership so morti will
- 00:10:02do business job he will work hard and I
- 00:10:05will take care of the house I will also
- 00:10:07teach them I'm a teacher and morti will
- 00:10:10spend good time with them with the good
- 00:10:12partnership it you didn't see yourself
- 00:10:14as the house wife and he was the one you
- 00:10:16know who had to go and earn the earn the
- 00:10:20family a living no she was more
- 00:10:22qualified than I she was more qualified
- 00:10:24than and I see in the book she made the
- 00:10:26greater sacrifices and we'll come to
- 00:10:28that in a moment yeah no it's okay I
- 00:10:30used to do part-time job as a lecturer
- 00:10:32in a college 9 to 12 okay I never felt
- 00:10:35it because raising a family requires
- 00:10:37many things okay priority is family so I
- 00:10:42kept priori family children and for that
- 00:10:45I will walk any distance any number of
- 00:10:47miles so it was a good partnership that
- 00:10:50I will do some work AA compliment makes
- 00:10:52a universal set mathematically I can
- 00:10:54tell I did something he did something
- 00:10:57together we did something good
- 00:10:59no but Raj it is very important for all
- 00:11:02of us to
- 00:11:03remember
- 00:11:06that our Heroes all for you for me S
- 00:11:10everybody here or people like Mahatma
- 00:11:13Gandhi gopal Krishna molana aad I mean
- 00:11:18these
- 00:11:20people sacrifice so
- 00:11:23much that whatever little we do is puny
- 00:11:31so we should not
- 00:11:32even make this a big deal they you know
- 00:11:36MMA Gandhi was hardly at home he didn't
- 00:11:39bring up his children I think because of
- 00:11:43that we have an independent India gopal
- 00:11:46Krishna go did you know maana did you
- 00:11:50know goal rajal AAR did you know Wai
- 00:11:54Patel did jaal Neu did you know I mean
- 00:11:59it's it's extraordinary what they did I
- 00:12:02don't know probably you know better than
- 00:12:04I do I believe once uh M Neu was
- 00:12:09sleeping on on
- 00:12:13a w not wooden Stone bench in his uh
- 00:12:19huge uh I know in the garden of the huge
- 00:12:23house and Ja went and asked why are you
- 00:12:26doing it he says I'm getting used to the
- 00:12:28the prison I want to get used to the
- 00:12:31prison so I think whatever we are doing
- 00:12:34is all puny it is meaningless it is
- 00:12:39nothing therefore for me these are the
- 00:12:45extraordinary
- 00:12:47Heroes if I can do one millionth of what
- 00:12:51they did I
- 00:12:53think our family would be happy I would
- 00:12:56be happy let's come to the book and the
- 00:12:59joy of your early years and I want to
- 00:13:01come to you chitra first because you put
- 00:13:03this together and got to rather
- 00:13:06otherwise private reticent people to
- 00:13:09speak about a lot about their romance
- 00:13:14coming together and their lives uh over
- 00:13:17the years what was it like for someone
- 00:13:20like you a fiction writer to write a
- 00:13:22biography of sorts of suda and Naran
- 00:13:26morti it was really a movement in a
- 00:13:30whole different direction it was a great
- 00:13:33challenge but I thought that this book
- 00:13:35was very important to write because I
- 00:13:40felt that this book if we really see
- 00:13:43into the lives of sudha gii and Muti G
- 00:13:47will inspire people but not because they
- 00:13:51are great Heroes up here that we cannot
- 00:13:54relate to but because they are so human
- 00:13:58and they went through many of these
- 00:14:00problems that they were very kind to
- 00:14:03share with me they were so honest they
- 00:14:05didn't just show me that oh you know it
- 00:14:09was always hard work it was always
- 00:14:11ideals it was always doing everything
- 00:14:15just right they shared with me the
- 00:14:17moments of frustration the moments of
- 00:14:20pain things from their childhood yes
- 00:14:23inspiring but also very very difficult
- 00:14:27and I think as people read the story of
- 00:14:30these two in some ways very human very
- 00:14:34ordinary people that is more aspiring
- 00:14:38that is more inspiring because we can
- 00:14:41aspire to do the things that they have
- 00:14:44done and I I feel very happy that they
- 00:14:47were you know willing to share they were
- 00:14:49willing to make themselves vulnerable
- 00:14:52for the sake of this book let's come
- 00:14:54therefore to those exciting Journeys
- 00:14:56that you've shared the frustrations the
- 00:14:59vulnerabilities as I read the book sudha
- 00:15:02G comes across particularly in the early
- 00:15:04years and possibly even today as the
- 00:15:06cheerful pragmatist always smiling
- 00:15:09always positive and Muti uh comes across
- 00:15:13in the book as dare I say in the early
- 00:15:16years as an unemployed communist not my
- 00:15:18words words of suda's Father uh a kind
- 00:15:22of dreamy idealist is that a fair
- 00:15:24categorization you in the early years
- 00:15:26you were the unemployed communist with
- 00:15:28these ideals and she was the cheerful
- 00:15:30pragmatist holding it all together uh
- 00:15:33yes uh that depic laughing now that
- 00:15:36depiction by chitra is absolutely
- 00:15:41correct uh I grew up as a socialist
- 00:15:47influenced by javal Neu and my
- 00:15:52father uh it when I went to France I
- 00:15:56realized that that model just would not
- 00:16:00work for
- 00:16:01India and I gradually converted myself
- 00:16:05to a compassionate cattle capitalist but
- 00:16:07that took a little bit of time therefore
- 00:16:09by and large as is depicted in the book
- 00:16:13I was a strong
- 00:16:16leftist sometimes uh borrowing the ideas
- 00:16:21of socialist and sometimes borrowing the
- 00:16:23ideas of communist and even today I am a
- 00:16:28capitalist in mind but a socialist at
- 00:16:32heart you know he is the serious one in
- 00:16:36this partnership am I correct you're
- 00:16:38you're the shrihan to his
- 00:16:41gasa you're the more eul if there was an
- 00:16:44opening partnership you're the one ready
- 00:16:46to to take more risks in a strange way
- 00:16:48than even he would uh is that how you
- 00:16:51saw him uh as
- 00:16:53uh you were always the ever smiling suda
- 00:16:57G right M well uh in initial days you
- 00:17:02know uh when the question of marriage
- 00:17:06came I always tell my father I want to
- 00:17:07marry a man who reads a lot a
- 00:17:10lot it's not money he may be in a
- 00:17:13smaller job it doesn't matter but the
- 00:17:15person should read a lot and though
- 00:17:17morti was unemployed but he used to read
- 00:17:19a lot and also borrow money from me and
- 00:17:23buy books and read a lot that's right so
- 00:17:25books brought you together yeah always
- 00:17:27and when when a close friend of yours
- 00:17:29told you about a friend who had all
- 00:17:31these books yeah who turned out to be
- 00:17:33morti uh apparently you thought he might
- 00:17:36look like Rajesh K yeah right early has
- 00:17:39gone to Paris who is hitchhiked and who
- 00:17:41can speak French you know in 1974 time
- 00:17:44it was a great thing today it is not
- 00:17:45great I said let me I going to meet
- 00:17:47someone here comes a school boy or
- 00:17:49college boy I said is it morti he said
- 00:17:53yeah was he Rajesh kanana or
- 00:17:56not no why do you want to insult
- 00:17:58raaj he was a young man with lot of
- 00:18:01Brilliance he was a young man with a lot
- 00:18:03of Brilliance and reading reading is the
- 00:18:06name in a way you therefore were his
- 00:18:08Muse I think she was your Muse right she
- 00:18:11inspired you uh right through but as I
- 00:18:14see in the book sud you give Naran morti
- 00:18:17or miti 10,000 rupees from your savings
- 00:18:20to set him off on his entrepreneurial
- 00:18:22Journey you then even offer a bank to
- 00:18:24pawn your jewelry uh for a bank loan uh
- 00:18:28you stay away from your little daughter
- 00:18:30for a while uh keep her with your mother
- 00:18:33and sister and Hui because you need to
- 00:18:35support him in his uh in his business
- 00:18:38what was it was it love was it
- 00:18:41conviction that your husband was going
- 00:18:43to achieve something seemingly
- 00:18:44impossible or is it just the kind of
- 00:18:46person you are that made you be ready
- 00:18:51for all these sacrifices uh mainly love
- 00:18:54love for my husband whether he'll make
- 00:18:56it money or not never ever I never ever
- 00:18:59thought many times I told m in case it
- 00:19:01fails why you should worry I have a
- 00:19:04degree you have a degree we can always
- 00:19:06go back to salar job okay then I have a
- 00:19:10two-bedroom apartment in Pune which was
- 00:19:12like a m to me know two bedroom
- 00:19:14apartment in Pune Model Colony why do
- 00:19:17you worry just don't worry we can lead a
- 00:19:20normal life I mean how we have let we'll
- 00:19:23continue it partially because of my
- 00:19:26nature also because I feel in
- 00:19:29life it is in life it is not 2+ 2 is
- 00:19:31four you know it is 2+ 2 maybe three it
- 00:19:35may be five don't worry whatever you get
- 00:19:38enjoy do that life well at that moment
- 00:19:42like I enjoyed being a teacher in a
- 00:19:44college I enjoyed being a mother at home
- 00:19:47I now I'm enjoying as a grandmother
- 00:19:50whatever situation you get do your level
- 00:19:53best and enjoy that is my motto in life
- 00:19:56but here is an engineering topper no who
- 00:19:58is with Telco in a good job eventually
- 00:20:02gives up her job because you need to
- 00:20:05support him at at various stages in his
- 00:20:08journey I mean this level of sacrifice
- 00:20:11is truly uncommon uh you know you have
- 00:20:1410,200 in your bank account you give
- 00:20:1710,000 uh out of your savings to him to
- 00:20:19set up his business I mean this doesn't
- 00:20:21happen all the
- 00:20:22time um there are two things when I got
- 00:20:25married my mother told me sudha you
- 00:20:27should keep keep some money without your
- 00:20:30husband's knowledge in a safe place
- 00:20:33because you never know how difficult is
- 00:20:36come in life my father was a salaried
- 00:20:38man so she must have done that one so I
- 00:20:41used to take out money and I'll keep it
- 00:20:42in a old team that kind of a d where
- 00:20:45nobody can suspect okay put rice on that
- 00:20:48or something that kind but this money
- 00:20:50should not be used for buying s or gold
- 00:20:54by any of the pleasures it is only
- 00:20:56emergency money so when morti said I
- 00:20:59want to start a company initially I said
- 00:21:01why we have a good job everything is
- 00:21:03there then he explained to me the
- 00:21:05importance of software Revolution and he
- 00:21:09knows that I'm very fond of History so
- 00:21:12he told when there was Industrial
- 00:21:14Revolution in India we we were in the
- 00:21:17British colony so we could not become
- 00:21:19legally ethically Rich second revolution
- 00:21:22is going to come now that is known as
- 00:21:24software Revolution if we work hard we
- 00:21:28can legally ethically do very well but I
- 00:21:32want your support and it then I thought
- 00:21:36my husband is dreaming something and let
- 00:21:38us help him let me help him at the most
- 00:21:41I may lose 10,000 rupees but dream it is
- 00:21:44better to it is better to try and fail
- 00:21:48not than not trying it at all all these
- 00:21:52years later Mr MTI do you think about
- 00:21:54the sacrifices that sud made what is she
- 00:21:57says it's out of love it's out of love
- 00:22:00and the Brilliance of the Rajesh K that
- 00:22:03she was going to see who was flooded
- 00:22:06with books in his library but all these
- 00:22:08years later does it give you a sense of
- 00:22:11uh do you feel like giving back to sud
- 00:22:14in some way I think he has given much
- 00:22:16more than 10,000 he's given you of
- 00:22:18course much more than 10,000 yes I think
- 00:22:20it's very important for me to State
- 00:22:23something my mother taught me when we
- 00:22:26were children
- 00:22:29that the first attribute of a civilized
- 00:22:34person is
- 00:22:37gratitude therefore I am extremely
- 00:22:41grateful to her I have demonstrated my
- 00:22:45gratitude in different ways almost every
- 00:22:49week sometimes in words sometimes in
- 00:22:53actions sometimes in
- 00:22:55gestures but I do remain very grateful
- 00:22:59because gratitude is extremely important
- 00:23:03unfortunately that is lacking in
- 00:23:07[Music]
- 00:23:08most Urban people loving Rajesh Kanna is
- 00:23:13is you you sing songs to her
- 00:23:16occasionally no those days I did but he
- 00:23:19a very good voice you have a favorite he
- 00:23:21he had a favorite song which he would CR
- 00:23:23to you you remember any song no I think
- 00:23:27those songs have been a song
- 00:23:31[Music]
- 00:23:32Somewhere song Canada song No but I
- 00:23:36think uh the songs moved from uh decade
- 00:23:41to decade they change from decade to
- 00:23:44decade as we became older and wiser
- 00:23:47different songs
- 00:23:50but those days know first of all before
- 00:23:54founding
- 00:23:55infas I was a Carefree
- 00:23:58person I used to laugh a
- 00:24:01lot I used to goof up a lot I used
- 00:24:08to uh be be totally
- 00:24:11Carefree but I think as I took on the
- 00:24:15task of
- 00:24:16emphasis I remember that I had already
- 00:24:19failed once in
- 00:24:21softronics and I was I had reached the
- 00:24:26age of 35 and I said this is when I have
- 00:24:30to work very hard this is when I have to
- 00:24:32become very serious and I discussed this
- 00:24:35issue with her she agreed that I have to
- 00:24:39work very hard she would cooperate fully
- 00:24:41she would make all the required
- 00:24:44sacrifices so I think as our outlook on
- 00:24:49life changed our objectives changed our
- 00:24:52targets
- 00:24:53change uh we we had different songs to
- 00:24:58cheer
- 00:24:59ourselves different movies to see
- 00:25:03different friends to have Etc it's
- 00:25:06normal she was a terrific movie buff by
- 00:25:09the way in the book we learned that
- 00:25:11sudaji once took a bet that she would
- 00:25:13watch a movie a day for 365 days in Pune
- 00:25:17in the 1970s and almost won the bet
- 00:25:20probably won the BET by watching films
- 00:25:22uh across various languages but chitra
- 00:25:25there's a line in the book uh a
- 00:25:27statement made by sudha G uh which he
- 00:25:30says to morti in those years I want you
- 00:25:33to be like the trapes artist in a circus
- 00:25:36and take a spectacular leap of faith I'm
- 00:25:39willing to be your safety net is this
- 00:25:42something that struck you about this
- 00:25:45relationship this partnership as they
- 00:25:47are calling it today it is truly
- 00:25:50uncommon yes and I loved that statement
- 00:25:54and that's why you know when sudaji told
- 00:25:56me that I'm like that is certainly going
- 00:25:58in the book because I think what makes
- 00:26:01their relationship particularly
- 00:26:03wonderful is that there was equality but
- 00:26:08not sameness each partner was different
- 00:26:12they decided which part of this
- 00:26:15relationship would they take on so one
- 00:26:18is going to be the chapiz artist and the
- 00:26:21other is going to be the safety net and
- 00:26:23maybe at a a different time in their
- 00:26:26life it it will change
- 00:26:28and you know you were talking about how
- 00:26:32uh Muti G and sudha G miti G decided
- 00:26:35that um sudaji could not be in infosis
- 00:26:39everybody knows that story and sudaji
- 00:26:41was she shared with me she was very
- 00:26:43upset for several days but what I put in
- 00:26:47the book and this shows the partnership
- 00:26:49is that Muti G came back to SAI when he
- 00:26:52realized how upset she was and he said
- 00:26:55you are the smart one if you want you
- 00:26:58can take over infosis and Muti G I
- 00:27:01learned this from talking to him many
- 00:27:03times he doesn't say things if he
- 00:27:05doesn't mean them if he says it he means
- 00:27:08it he said you take infosis I'll take
- 00:27:11care of the children and sudha G thought
- 00:27:13about it for quite a while and she said
- 00:27:16to herself she's told this to me I can
- 00:27:19handle infosis just fine but can he take
- 00:27:22care of the children as well as I can
- 00:27:25and that answer didn't come out I said
- 00:27:28yes and so the path let's push that you
- 00:27:32know it's an interesting story the fact
- 00:27:35was that you tell your wife that if you
- 00:27:40want first you say you cannot join
- 00:27:42infosis I don't want it to be a husband
- 00:27:45wife partnership and you go on to say I
- 00:27:48am happy to take care of the children
- 00:27:50you can take over infosis but both of us
- 00:27:52will not be in empasis together I mean
- 00:27:54this is very unusual because this is a
- 00:27:56partnership surely you wanted her also
- 00:27:58to be part of the infosis
- 00:28:01story well you know
- 00:28:03Raj as I just know pointed
- 00:28:07out your were views
- 00:28:11change from time to time you
- 00:28:16evolve at that point of time based on my
- 00:28:20own mind set based
- 00:28:24on uh what I had seen in in corporate
- 00:28:28India around me my view was that husband
- 00:28:33and wife coming
- 00:28:35together may not be the best way to
- 00:28:40create a a a highly professional team
- 00:28:45you didn't want it to be a family firm
- 00:28:47that's above all else exactly put it you
- 00:28:49put it better but as you grow older as
- 00:28:53you see a lot of lot of new as you get
- 00:28:57lot of of new
- 00:28:58experiences as you become
- 00:29:01wiser you
- 00:29:03realize which I realized today that the
- 00:29:06most important thing is not family
- 00:29:09relationships most important thing is
- 00:29:13whether you will actually follow every
- 00:29:17rule of good
- 00:29:19governance and that is not
- 00:29:22restricted following every rule of
- 00:29:24governance is not restricted to
- 00:29:26professional
- 00:29:27it is it is uh prevalent amongst family
- 00:29:31firms it is prevalent amongst brothers
- 00:29:33and sisters as long as they have been
- 00:29:36brought up with a value proper value
- 00:29:38system by their parents by their early
- 00:29:41teachers and all of that so I have now
- 00:29:46you know it's a different set of view it
- 00:29:48is all based on my own experiences my
- 00:29:51what I have observed in the world around
- 00:29:53me all of that so there is nothing that
- 00:29:56we should pay too much importance to it
- 00:30:00as long as my Basic Value which is
- 00:30:04honesty decency courtesy you know
- 00:30:07transparency accountability and fairness
- 00:30:10etc etc they are not compromised so if
- 00:30:13we were to turn the clock back and sudha
- 00:30:15G was to come back to you when you were
- 00:30:17setting up infosis and say I want to be
- 00:30:19part of this Venture we are a
- 00:30:20partnership we are going to work
- 00:30:21together we've always done it together
- 00:30:23you would say welcome to the club you
- 00:30:25might all these years later today today
- 00:30:28based on my having
- 00:30:32observed the so-called
- 00:30:34professionals and the family
- 00:30:38firms I personally believe
- 00:30:42that other
- 00:30:44than
- 00:30:46multinationals there is not that much to
- 00:30:49distinguish between the two he's almost
- 00:30:51making an offer that he didn't make to
- 00:30:53you all those years ago you were very
- 00:30:56angry you were a upset that suddenly
- 00:30:58this partnership was being broken when
- 00:31:00he decided you you don't have space in
- 00:31:03infosis even though as I reiterate you
- 00:31:05were an engineering topper and therefore
- 00:31:08were eminently qualified in a way to be
- 00:31:11part of his dream uh do you in some ways
- 00:31:16regret not being part of that part of
- 00:31:18his life Inside by actually being part
- 00:31:22of the infosis founding
- 00:31:25team initially maybe initially I felt it
- 00:31:30like I'm not part of the technical team
- 00:31:33because I'm a technical
- 00:31:35person but over a period of time I
- 00:31:40realized that not
- 00:31:42necessary
- 00:31:44uh if I would have been at infosis I
- 00:31:46would have retired as a director of
- 00:31:48technical some head of that and
- 00:31:52all I feel God closed one window but
- 00:31:56open many doors to be I developed many
- 00:32:00things not like I took up writing at a
- 00:32:03serious
- 00:32:05profession more than that you know I
- 00:32:07joined infosis foundation and I could
- 00:32:10make the changes to so many people lives
- 00:32:14and particularly I told you that I was
- 00:32:16working with the sex workers it was so
- 00:32:19difficult job I did I realize that life
- 00:32:23what you think is the best may not be
- 00:32:25the best what you get the best and do
- 00:32:28the best in that because you know you
- 00:32:31probably children know more about sudha
- 00:32:33morti than they know about Naran morti
- 00:32:35because you're this bestselling author
- 00:32:36of books for children and uh the tables
- 00:32:41have turned morti she she's today uh
- 00:32:45just as big an iconic figure as you are
- 00:32:48no in some way bigger I tell you is no
- 00:32:51in some way bigger I'll tell you why I
- 00:32:54see a glass half
- 00:32:57empty but she sees a glass half full
- 00:33:00she's always very
- 00:33:02positive whatever she takes up whatever
- 00:33:06she takes up she has risen to the
- 00:33:09top that is no I mean that's the reality
- 00:33:12that's data that's it I'm not inventing
- 00:33:15anything gratitude gratitude he's
- 00:33:16finally learning to praise His Wife more
- 00:33:19and more in public part of his but but
- 00:33:21it's you know you've discovered a new
- 00:33:23life for yourself so you know you've
- 00:33:26gone in your own diretion with your book
- 00:33:28writing and your philanthropy your
- 00:33:30foundation doing remarkable work among D
- 00:33:32dasi communities uh and and many others
- 00:33:36so so you must feel a s sense of
- 00:33:38fulfillment today behind every
- 00:33:40successful woman there's an
- 00:33:42understanding man ah be that's a lovely
- 00:33:44one line say it again behind every
- 00:33:47successful
- 00:33:48woman there's an understanding man see
- 00:33:52she's throwing back the compliments at
- 00:33:54you but very kind yeah but you know what
- 00:33:57also stands out in this book for for me
- 00:33:59there are two themes and I'll come to
- 00:34:01both one by one one is middle class
- 00:34:03Origins and values you spent so little
- 00:34:06on yourselves in those early years you
- 00:34:08live in a one-bedroom flat in Santa Cruz
- 00:34:11which doesn't have a lift the first flat
- 00:34:13you have in Mumbai doesn't even have a
- 00:34:15proper attached bathroom no home phone
- 00:34:18it takes you a lot of difficulty today's
- 00:34:21India doesn't know how difficult it was
- 00:34:22to get a phone connection sudaji takes a
- 00:34:25local train to church gate with a tiffen
- 00:34:28so that you don't uh you're not hungry
- 00:34:30at night that's right honeymoon is in
- 00:34:33Maan presumably surrounded by
- 00:34:35monkeys uh this almost seems straight
- 00:34:38out of an amol movie of the
- 00:34:411970s her favorite actor am b b
- 00:34:46and other films Raj gandha starting with
- 00:34:49rajin gandha what is this middle class
- 00:34:51values that that shape your lives in a
- 00:34:53way well you know according to me middle
- 00:34:56class values
- 00:34:59are
- 00:35:01honesty hard work High
- 00:35:04aspiration
- 00:35:07discipline uh and putting the interests
- 00:35:12of other members of the family beyond
- 00:35:14your own interest and in a certain
- 00:35:18percentage of cases putting the interest
- 00:35:20of the country ahead of One's Own
- 00:35:23interest uh aspiring to be educated ated
- 00:35:27extremely
- 00:35:29well uh working very hard in the office
- 00:35:35making sure that one uh achieves the or
- 00:35:39one gets the plaits from the bosses so
- 00:35:43these are by and large middle class
- 00:35:45values it's also stitching a white
- 00:35:47sweater as a symbol of love which is
- 00:35:50what you did among your early gifts to
- 00:35:52Mr miti is stitching a white sweater for
- 00:35:54him knitting a white sweater with a red
- 00:35:55Bard yeah so you're playing the as I
- 00:35:58said an am am pikar a great favorite of
- 00:36:00yours miti had become am you were
- 00:36:03like a
- 00:36:04Vidya from so beautiful she was so
- 00:36:07beautiful no I think all his movies
- 00:36:09whether Raj gandha or in fact I told
- 00:36:14Tina when we met her at some
- 00:36:18fun
- 00:36:21CH was
- 00:36:24with of
- 00:36:30movie you know that so
- 00:36:33heartwarming it it gave so much of
- 00:36:36confidence to the middle class people
- 00:36:39and uh so I I you know very happy but
- 00:36:41did you ever feel sitting in that one
- 00:36:43room house in Santa Cruz no lift no
- 00:36:47attached bathroom there one day would
- 00:36:49come when you'd be these
- 00:36:51multi-billionaires and aspirational role
- 00:36:53models for a entire startup culture did
- 00:36:56you ever think think of that was there a
- 00:36:57dream out there no never never I never
- 00:37:01thought about it at no stage no
- 00:37:04stage and when morti started inos I
- 00:37:08never thought you know we'll become so
- 00:37:09big my husband wants to start some
- 00:37:11Adventure by the name in for he had Many
- 00:37:13Adventures in life one of the adventures
- 00:37:16so it may make it may not make it not
- 00:37:19more than that chitra is isn't that
- 00:37:22something that sort of draws you to them
- 00:37:24they are these middle class role models
- 00:37:27uh the Simplicity with which they live
- 00:37:29their lives and continue to live in many
- 00:37:32ways is is hugely
- 00:37:35attractive yes very much so very much so
- 00:37:39and it is hugely attractive because it's
- 00:37:42not like they're saying oh look at us we
- 00:37:44are so wonderful we are choosing to live
- 00:37:46this simple life it was very natural to
- 00:37:49them and that came out of their
- 00:37:51childhoods I think that came out of some
- 00:37:54of the people who influenced their child
- 00:37:56Hood morti G's mother sudha G's
- 00:37:59grandparents they taught them these
- 00:38:01things just by the way in which they Liv
- 00:38:04their lives um the way they gave away
- 00:38:07things um there's a story in the book
- 00:38:11where sudaji goes to visit her
- 00:38:13grandparents and they have two granaries
- 00:38:16one in the front which has bad rice you
- 00:38:19know lower quality rice and one in the
- 00:38:22back which has better quality rice and
- 00:38:24when people come to beg they get the
- 00:38:26better quality rice and when they the
- 00:38:29family eats at night they eat the worst
- 00:38:32quality rice and she just grew up with
- 00:38:34that she questioned it but then they
- 00:38:37explained to her why it is important to
- 00:38:39give and when you learn those values
- 00:38:41when you are young they just become part
- 00:38:44of you you're no longer putting them on
- 00:38:47or you're no longer even thinking of
- 00:38:49them as a sacrifice and that's what I
- 00:38:51loved about writing this book is
- 00:38:54learning what came naturally to the them
- 00:38:57and also feeling well we can also learn
- 00:39:00they learned it from their grandparents
- 00:39:02we can learn it from this book and
- 00:39:04that's kind of my great hope in writing
- 00:39:07this book and and the other running
- 00:39:08theme which I find even more fascinating
- 00:39:11is uh just how tough it was to do
- 00:39:15business in India in the 1970s and 80s
- 00:39:17the entrepreneurial Journey running
- 00:39:19around bureaucrats for getting basic uh
- 00:39:22permissions to import a computer going
- 00:39:24to The Reserve Bank of India office for
- 00:39:28remittances uh uh uh to be cleared uh
- 00:39:31sudaji with akata on her arm with you
- 00:39:34going to the Reserve Bank of India
- 00:39:36office spending hours there phone
- 00:39:38connections and I'll come to the phone
- 00:39:40story in a moment much easier to do
- 00:39:42business now isn't it all the startup
- 00:39:45culture today so much easier today than
- 00:39:47it was in the
- 00:39:481980s well I think we must all be very
- 00:39:51grateful to Sri narim late
- 00:39:54narim who was obviously aided by Dr manm
- 00:39:59Singh Shri chamaram and Shri mon sing
- 00:40:04alalia in liberalizing our
- 00:40:09economy but I do believe that without
- 00:40:12the extraordinary support of late
- 00:40:15narim it would not have happened because
- 00:40:17he was the Prime Minister he was the
- 00:40:19leader he had to take the flag from
- 00:40:22whatever others so that combination of
- 00:40:25Nur Dr manm Singh sh chamaram and
- 00:40:30monalia these are the four whatever
- 00:40:33chaturti or whatever you call that India
- 00:40:37must be very very grateful to because
- 00:40:41without that we would not be where we
- 00:40:44are today but those frustrations of the
- 00:40:46' 80s did they ever get to you I mean
- 00:40:49you're taking months on end to get basic
- 00:40:51permissions for a for a computer to be
- 00:40:54imported uh was it I mean did you ever
- 00:40:57feel forget it I'm not going to do this
- 00:40:59anymore it was it was that is where
- 00:41:02spending time in the family with wife
- 00:41:06and children akata and Rohan who were
- 00:41:10very very young at that time going with
- 00:41:12them to to restaurants seeing them
- 00:41:17enjoying their food you know buying them
- 00:41:20small
- 00:41:21toys and going to her parents house in
- 00:41:26bubly I think all those things added a
- 00:41:30lot to alleviate those stresses they
- 00:41:34were your stress Busters absolutely she
- 00:41:36was your safety B stress Buster and more
- 00:41:39because there's a fascinating story
- 00:41:40about getting a phone uh your son is ill
- 00:41:45and you don't know how to uh contact
- 00:41:48morti you don't have a home phone at the
- 00:41:51time and you have to rush to get a trunk
- 00:41:54call made from a post office
- 00:41:56I mean it must have been crazy times in
- 00:41:59a way and all of us grew up in That 70s
- 00:42:0280s middle class India desperate for a
- 00:42:05phone connection and he was not willing
- 00:42:07to bribe the line man so you wouldn't
- 00:42:09get a phone connection in uh in
- 00:42:12Advan it must have been tough yes it was
- 00:42:15tough but you know it was tough for
- 00:42:17everybody sure not only for me okay
- 00:42:20given situation is tough what we will do
- 00:42:23sit and cry sit and get upset or do
- 00:42:25something I rather do something so take
- 00:42:28the child on your shoulder hold the
- 00:42:31other girl in your hand go to post
- 00:42:33office sit there at 8:00 in the night
- 00:42:36then you there's a big line then you get
- 00:42:38a connection he says only 3 minutes you
- 00:42:40have to talk not more than that and I
- 00:42:42called my sister Dr Sanda I said I'm I'm
- 00:42:45worried the child is not well take the
- 00:42:47late night bus and come that is the only
- 00:42:51solution you have to accept given
- 00:42:54situation what you can do the best you
- 00:42:56know there's another story that stands
- 00:42:58out for me uh you slept in a store room
- 00:43:02in the United States between car
- 00:43:04cardboard cartons because that's how
- 00:43:06your us principal treated his Indian
- 00:43:10partner in those early years I mean when
- 00:43:12I read that story I just see how much
- 00:43:14India has changed this is 1980s you're
- 00:43:17sitting between cardboard cartons in a
- 00:43:19sto room not even allowed into the main
- 00:43:21house in a way by your us principal
- 00:43:24who's given you your first Big Break and
- 00:43:26you just accept it well you know I think
- 00:43:29in some way what I have learned from my
- 00:43:32wife and also from my mother is
- 00:43:36that you have to make the best out of
- 00:43:40whatever situation you are in you have
- 00:43:42to look at the positive sides that
- 00:43:45gentleman gave us the first major
- 00:43:47contract I remain very grateful to him I
- 00:43:51invited him for the for the infas 40th
- 00:43:55years
- 00:43:56celebration for other major occasions of
- 00:44:00infes because more important than
- 00:44:05that our
- 00:44:07gratitude has to be there but the reason
- 00:44:11why I mention sleeping in a room on a
- 00:44:15box is simply to convey to the
- 00:44:18entrepreneurs that when you are building
- 00:44:21your company you will have to go through
- 00:44:24lot of uh
- 00:44:27discomfort lot of
- 00:44:29sacrifices lot of
- 00:44:31stresses but they are all transitory
- 00:44:35they will go away don't ever get
- 00:44:37defeated by those events it remain
- 00:44:43grateful to the person who has helped
- 00:44:45you so I even today I remain very
- 00:44:49grateful to that person for giving us
- 00:44:53the break he was the first customer of
- 00:44:56was and I remain very
- 00:44:58grateful and
- 00:45:00uh I always believed that whatever you
- 00:45:05recount for the sake of future
- 00:45:07entrepreneurs you must try to be as
- 00:45:10honest as possible it cannot be only uh
- 00:45:14positive stuff it has to have both The
- 00:45:17Good the Bad and even the ugly so that's
- 00:45:21the only spirit in which I recounted it
- 00:45:24to chitra
- 00:45:26of course uh you know she has uh
- 00:45:29described it uh very well only she can
- 00:45:35but I don't I don't hold any Grudge I
- 00:45:38don't hold any ill will towards anybody
- 00:45:40because you know a lot of as hidden
- 00:45:42aspects of you come through you you
- 00:45:44clean your own toilets
- 00:45:46yes you still do I do you still clean
- 00:45:50your own toilets yes even now at the age
- 00:45:52of 78 I do that because uh
- 00:45:56now his knees are giving problem now
- 00:45:58your knees are but for the longest time
- 00:45:59you did he did he's corporate Gandhi I
- 00:46:02tell him he's a corporate Gandhi but I'm
- 00:46:04not
- 00:46:06Katura that's another one line which I
- 00:46:09will remember he's a corporate Gandhi
- 00:46:11but I'm not but you're not
- 00:46:13[Music]
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