00:00:10
what happens to a cult when it's profit
00:00:13
goes to prison a A&E investigates the
00:00:16
FLDS they need food they need jobs they
00:00:21
need places to live they're in a
00:00:23
humanitarian crisis what are they trying
00:00:25
to do to us how much damage do they want
00:00:28
us to have we're having people being
00:00:30
shoved out of the community and it is
00:00:33
traumatizing change is here it's
00:00:37
knocking on the door
00:00:39
they can either participate in that
00:00:40
change or they can resist it any man
00:00:44
that would marry a 14 year old girl is a
00:00:46
pedophile my opinion Warren Jeffs says
00:00:48
he's a narcissistic sicko and what he
00:00:50
has done is irrefutable I know the real
00:00:53
story I know the real man so how do you
00:00:56
respond to people who say your faith is
00:00:58
blind
00:00:58
I need my religion I want it
00:01:02
[Music]
00:01:20
[Music]
00:01:26
the Texas jury a sentence polygamists
00:01:29
leader Warren Jeffs to life in prison
00:01:31
plus twenty years the jury heated the
00:01:34
prosecutors call to give Jeffs the
00:01:36
maximum sentence for sexually assaulting
00:01:38
an underaged follower he took as his
00:01:40
bride the 55 year old Jeffs will be
00:01:42
eligible for parole in 35 years
00:01:45
Jeff's led a radical offshoot of the
00:01:47
Mormon Church is 10,000 followers see
00:01:49
him as God's spokesman on earth he had
00:01:52
access to unlimited money he had access
00:01:54
to a workforce that would work day and
00:01:56
night to achieve anything that he set
00:01:59
forth for them to do get access to sex
00:02:02
to women they had access to everything
00:02:05
with no checks and balances in place
00:02:11
Warren came down very hard on me and
00:02:13
said I will break you
00:02:15
Roy Jeffs has broken his silence about
00:02:17
his father accusing polygamist church
00:02:19
leader Warren Jeffs of sexually abusing
00:02:21
him as a child
00:02:24
[Music]
00:02:32
he still has direct rule over his
00:02:34
followers because he is their prophet he
00:02:37
is a spokesperson for God so if he's not
00:02:40
giving direct orders today they still
00:02:42
are total believers they are cut off
00:02:45
from the outside world and their
00:02:47
devotion to the leader and their loyalty
00:02:49
the organisation can only deepen
00:02:54
[Music]
00:03:05
you guys ready for today we hope so I'll
00:03:09
take my glasses off my item oh my
00:03:13
goodness that's what you get for having
00:03:14
curly hair now this is not a sacred
00:03:18
ritual this is just during her hair I
00:03:21
was born of a Hilldale home there in
00:03:24
hildo we call Hilldale in Colorado City
00:03:27
Short Creek it's just one community I
00:03:29
grew up on the mountain there in
00:03:32
Hilldale I loved it I absolutely loved
00:03:35
it I just didn't know any other life of
00:03:37
course and I don't know that I would
00:03:38
have loved any other life
00:03:40
my father was into every kind of I think
00:03:45
it was a traveling salesman he made
00:03:46
money and he lost money and sometimes it
00:03:49
was faced sometimes it was famine but
00:03:51
when it was famine we always had our
00:03:53
church just say hey we can help you and
00:03:56
when it was feast I hope we were helping
00:03:58
others and I think from where I'm the
00:04:00
middle of 75 children 75 children so
00:04:07
your father had how many wives he had
00:04:09
eight and each wife had how many
00:04:11
children that buried uh-huh when'll he
00:04:15
had three children and my mother had the
00:04:17
most which I just know why she had 19
00:04:20
your mother had 19 children my goodness
00:04:25
we really had our own little social
00:04:27
system right there within the family and
00:04:29
it was great we got along we roamed the
00:04:32
mountains we played cowboys and Indians
00:04:33
all the time you know would find caves
00:04:35
up on the mountain little teeny wins and
00:04:37
go in and make little fires and roast
00:04:41
our marshmallows and hot dogs you know
00:04:42
and stuff like that we just loved it our
00:04:44
family traveled we had three Greyhound
00:04:48
buses at one time
00:04:50
I had a friend that said we please go to
00:04:52
college with me I don't want to go alone
00:04:53
so I went to college and went to
00:04:56
University of Utah right there in Salt
00:04:58
Lake City my husband everybody knew him
00:05:01
he's a school teacher and everyone in
00:05:03
the community knew him we all knew he
00:05:05
might grow up knowing who he was and in
00:05:09
high school of course I went to his
00:05:11
classes and I really really really liked
00:05:15
him
00:05:15
so after a few years I just thought well
00:05:17
I really want Heavenly Father to be
00:05:19
involved in whatever choice and decision
00:05:21
I make
00:05:26
I did go to the Prophet and he did ask
00:05:30
me do you have anybody in mind and I
00:05:33
says as a matter of fact I do but I only
00:05:35
want to do what's right so I need your
00:05:37
help and a few months later then he
00:05:40
called and and says you know it it feels
00:05:43
right the Lord is pleased with this and
00:05:46
and so we went ahead we got married I
00:05:50
was married at 20 it seemed like a good
00:05:55
age the FLDS are true believers in the
00:06:03
practice of polygamy which was first
00:06:06
announced by their founder Joseph Smith
00:06:08
who said there was word from God that a
00:06:11
man needed to have at least three wives
00:06:13
in order to reach the celestial kingdom
00:06:15
which is their highest level of heaven
00:06:18
the FLDS is one of the many groups that
00:06:21
splintered off from the original Mormon
00:06:24
Church the LDS known as the Latter day
00:06:26
Saints in 1890 the leaders of the LDS
00:06:29
renounced polygamy because they wanted
00:06:32
to gain statehood in the United States
00:06:34
and as long as they were practicing
00:06:36
polygamy Utah would not have been able
00:06:38
to become a state but the FLDS believed
00:06:41
that that was wrong that they should
00:06:42
follow the tenants that have always been
00:06:44
there within Mormonism and that a plural
00:06:47
marriage is a very important practice
00:06:49
because otherwise they won't get to the
00:06:52
celestial kingdom so even though the
00:06:54
outside world has in many instances
00:06:57
labeled the FLDS as a cult within the
00:06:59
community they see themselves as living
00:07:01
a very pure lifestyle through their
00:07:04
dress through their behavior through
00:07:05
their prayers and their family values
00:07:13
I am NOT an official representative of
00:07:16
our group I'm not officially told to do
00:07:19
this I am doing this because I want to
00:07:22
do this this is the first time I felt
00:07:24
like that maybe I wouldn't be hurting my
00:07:28
people and my people are important to me
00:07:34
celestial as the plural marriage with a
00:07:39
man having more than one wife and in the
00:07:42
Bible the Gees
00:07:43
Jesus has more than one when they went
00:07:45
to the Sepulcher after he was crucified
00:07:48
the ladies that went to take care of him
00:07:50
were his wife's
00:07:52
Abraham Isaac and Jacob they all had
00:07:54
more than one wife and we considered
00:07:58
that we're part of them this is our
00:08:00
living room and this is where we meet
00:08:04
for family classes and Curt time and TV
00:08:08
we don't have a TV
00:08:10
we don't do TV we have computers the
00:08:16
children can use the computers we don't
00:08:18
have the Internet
00:08:23
this is hair-combing station we put this
00:08:27
in because all the girls were taking the
00:08:29
bathrooms and we need them for other
00:08:31
things besides hair combing and some of
00:08:33
them just love to come to hair all day
00:08:35
[Music]
00:08:39
and when we get eggs we usually get a
00:08:41
case of eggs one flat are you kidding
00:08:51
so this is our sewing room we saw our
00:08:56
dresses we saw our dresses some people
00:09:00
have the machines to me trousers we sew
00:09:03
our underwear we saw everything that we
00:09:05
wear right now I think we have 24 people
00:09:11
here I've asked the other mothers if
00:09:14
they would like to meet you know and
00:09:16
talk to you but everyone is very
00:09:18
concerned then and I've kind of gone out
00:09:22
of my comfort zone and they're not ready
00:09:25
to come out of their comfort zone this
00:09:27
is my daughter nor Donna
00:09:30
well I'm 20 I'm certified nursing
00:09:33
assistant and what are your hopes for
00:09:35
the future well I hope to rob be married
00:09:40
have children have a family why is it
00:09:44
that you're not married yes
00:09:46
we're told who to marry who decides that
00:09:49
our prophetess
00:09:50
[Music]
00:09:56
there is a picture of the Prophet there
00:09:58
almost every room has a picture wait
00:10:04
we love him he's only been good to us so
00:10:07
yeah everyone has one everybody calls
00:10:12
him Warren Jeffs but to me because I
00:10:13
love him and I know only good about him
00:10:16
he's uncle Warren and how would you
00:10:18
describe uncle Warren as you call him as
00:10:21
a father he has a very loving caring oh
00:10:27
wow sorry
00:10:33
it's so deep and so real and so much
00:10:36
love and kindness that it hurts to think
00:10:41
that anybody could see bad in
00:10:45
[Music]
00:11:04
what is the inappropriate age for
00:11:08
marriage and appropriate I don't care
00:11:12
what they're married when they're two
00:11:15
but the appropriate age for taking
00:11:18
responsibility was me up there you know
00:11:21
around 18 he started sexually abusing me
00:11:39
as a young child and I it was so against
00:11:43
his teachings so against what he had
00:11:46
taught us I I didn't even know how what
00:11:48
to think and I just felt terrible when a
00:11:50
cult leader is imprisoned in many ways
00:11:53
it makes the followers believe even more
00:11:55
and it makes the group stronger because
00:11:58
all along no doubt they've been told
00:12:00
that they're going to experience
00:12:01
persecution so now they have a living
00:12:04
example of this suddenly their leader is
00:12:07
arrested is put on trial is convicted is
00:12:10
put in prison I know the real story I
00:12:13
know the real man and he's had a lot of
00:12:17
bad press and he's had a lot of things
00:12:22
said that just they don't hold true he's
00:12:26
done only good that I know of in my life
00:12:28
he's followed a line of successors you
00:12:32
know he's come down and they've only
00:12:33
done good and every one of them have had
00:12:35
something horrible said about them every
00:12:38
single one of them same narrative Joseph
00:12:41
Smith Brigham Young John Taylor you know
00:12:43
all those it's the same one when Warren
00:12:47
Jeffs was convicted and went to prison
00:12:49
this had a very deep effect on the
00:12:52
members of the community with him gone
00:12:54
they don't have the direct leadership
00:12:56
and the community is no longer thriving
00:12:58
as it was before so they don't have
00:13:01
means to live there aren't many jobs
00:13:03
they don't know where they can go
00:13:05
there's nowhere for them to go so
00:13:08
they're really living in a state of
00:13:10
stress and conflict and confusion in a
00:13:13
sense there's no way to make a living
00:13:16
there's no way to take care of your
00:13:17
family there are no resources that used
00:13:20
to be there we lived in a community that
00:13:23
was thriving
00:13:25
[Music]
00:13:39
and now we're having our homes business
00:13:43
says be Victor and people being
00:13:47
basically shoved out of the community
00:13:49
and it is traumatizing this is a mess it
00:13:54
is a mess how much of this is the fault
00:13:56
of the church I mean you all I would
00:13:58
totally blame this that wholly on the
00:13:59
church's fault absolutely completely on
00:14:02
their fault in what the the ones who are
00:14:04
still true believers don't see is that
00:14:05
just about everything that they're
00:14:07
suffering from the evictions the poverty
00:14:10
the broken down community all of that
00:14:13
comes from him right more in general
00:14:15
Warren Jeffs I mean he brought that the
00:14:19
conditions of living under Warren Jeffs
00:14:21
were extremely severe he got rid of
00:14:23
television sets he cut off any kind of
00:14:25
contact with the outside world and so it
00:14:28
became a much more sequestered group
00:14:30
with basically no exposure to the
00:14:32
outside world in my opinion Warren Jeffs
00:14:34
intention for cutting off the FLDS from
00:14:37
the rest of society was for him to gain
00:14:40
absolute and total control
00:14:45
my opinion warren jeffs says he's a
00:14:47
narcissistic sicko I mean I you know
00:14:50
what he has done is irrefutable that guy
00:14:53
he was a meticulous record keeper he
00:14:56
wrote everything down I mean everything
00:14:58
did the evidence that he wrote down with
00:15:01
his own hand his own words if the world
00:15:04
knew what I was doing they would hang me
00:15:06
from the highest tree and I'm quoting
00:15:09
him I'm quoting his own words
00:15:14
[Music]
00:15:21
we were powerful as a group and we had a
00:15:25
leader that had a lot of respect and so
00:15:30
it was scary it seemed like it was scary
00:15:33
to a lot of people that we were going to
00:15:35
become too powerful in some way I don't
00:15:38
know how it was only like ten thousand
00:15:39
people big deal you know that's not very
00:15:41
many and compared to the rest of the
00:15:43
world and we were happier we had a lot
00:15:46
more happy times we could pray together
00:15:48
we worshiped regularly and often and it
00:15:51
was beautiful this land belongs to
00:15:59
Heavenly Father it doesn't belong to me
00:16:02
it doesn't belong to my husband it
00:16:03
doesn't belong to my sister wives or my
00:16:05
children
00:16:05
it belongs to Heavenly Father our
00:16:08
forefathers our great-grandfather's and
00:16:11
our grandfathers dedicated it to him and
00:16:12
we want to keep that dedication so yes
00:16:15
it's very sacred
00:16:20
over a decade ago the state of Utah took
00:16:24
over the FLDS Land Trust that owned all
00:16:28
the homes and they installed a Board of
00:16:32
Trustees that consisted 100% of X FLDS
00:16:37
well the FLDS have had a long-standing
00:16:40
principle where they would not mingle or
00:16:44
do business with former members they
00:16:47
consider the X members apostates
00:16:53
[Music]
00:16:55
faithful FLDS cannot sign documents with
00:17:01
apostates as a result people have been
00:17:05
evicted by the hundreds hundreds of
00:17:08
homes
00:17:08
now the people who've left the church
00:17:10
the apostates want to go move there the
00:17:15
way they see it this is their home
00:17:18
[Music]
00:17:19
change is inevitable change is coming
00:17:23
change is here it's knocking on the door
00:17:26
and I think the FLDS have a choice
00:17:31
they can either participate in that
00:17:33
change or they can resist it but it's
00:17:37
here I grew up here in Short Creek and I
00:17:45
was born and raised in the FLDS Church I
00:17:47
had one of the best childhoods you can
00:17:49
ever imagine
00:17:50
my great grandfather is John Y Barlow
00:17:53
who was one of the founding members of
00:17:55
this community he was a prophet you know
00:17:58
there was TV in our house we had
00:18:00
Christmas parties we celebrated the 4th
00:18:03
of July
00:18:03
and then the Jeffs regime came in I
00:18:07
attended out the Academy the church
00:18:09
school in Salt Lake where Warren was the
00:18:12
principal I was a little bit over a
00:18:15
rebellious kid I was a little bit hard
00:18:17
headed and I had my opinions then Warren
00:18:19
he wouldn't give me the time of day he
00:18:21
did not care for me and I was getting
00:18:24
older
00:18:24
[Music]
00:18:26
all my brothers and sisters that were of
00:18:28
age younger than me we're all married
00:18:31
off and I wasn't and Lauren wasn't gonna
00:18:34
let me get married I absolutely saw the
00:18:38
writing on the wall
00:18:39
I knew my future wasn't here it's
00:18:42
terrifying is what it is it's walking
00:18:45
out into the unknown and not only is
00:18:47
there just the normal economic mechanics
00:18:50
of life like how do i buy fuel and shoes
00:18:53
and housing there was also this
00:18:55
spiritual connection to it my souls
00:18:58
damned how old were you when you left
00:19:07
FLDS I would be about 23 years old and
00:19:11
how big how painful the decision wasn't
00:19:13
that was the hardest decision I've ever
00:19:15
made in my life
00:19:16
I was out there contemplating my future
00:19:19
it was a rough time for me and then
00:19:22
that's when I met ELISA wall the woman
00:19:25
who helped convict polygamist leader
00:19:27
Warren Jeffs is speaking out she was
00:19:29
forced by Jeff's at the age of 14 to
00:19:31
marry a 19 year old man she is now
00:19:34
married and has two children with
00:19:35
husband Lamont Barlow also a former FLDS
00:19:38
member in my opinion any man that would
00:19:41
marry a fourteen-year-old girl is a
00:19:43
pedophile
00:19:45
[Music]
00:19:49
to speak out against Warren Jeffs at
00:19:53
this time was not a very popular
00:19:55
decision now you're the worst of the
00:19:59
worst now you are the very worst thing
00:20:02
that ever happened you are shunned you
00:20:04
lose connections with family you lose
00:20:06
the right to attend a funeral everything
00:20:09
is taken away today I'm happily married
00:20:18
again to my lovely wife Ashley her
00:20:22
family was here and she badly wanted to
00:20:24
live here I had a lot of friends here we
00:20:26
were spending more and more time here
00:20:27
and so it made a lot of sense and now
00:20:30
there's a lot of property in Short Creek
00:20:33
in Hilldale and in Colorado City that's
00:20:35
available for purchase anybody can come
00:20:37
in there and take advantage of the
00:20:39
ability to purchase that property it is
00:20:41
cheaper to live here but the economy is
00:20:43
suppressed it's way more difficult to
00:20:46
make money here and so my goal in the
00:20:49
community is to play a role in bringing
00:20:52
the economy back to life I want to see
00:20:56
this community in a position where we
00:20:58
have finished homes I want to see in ten
00:21:01
years from now a place where my son can
00:21:03
get a job and that's the change that
00:21:06
needs to take place
00:21:10
the FLDS are not too happy about the
00:21:14
fact that there's a lot of X F of the s
00:21:16
coming back home my entire lifetime and
00:21:19
my father's entire lifetime and my
00:21:21
grandfather's entire lifetime the FLDS
00:21:24
have been calling the shots and for the
00:21:26
first time in history they're not and so
00:21:29
they find themselves as the minority in
00:21:31
this community and I don't think they're
00:21:33
very happy about that
00:21:34
today when former FLDS are coming back
00:21:38
to the community and offering help in a
00:21:41
variety of ways the true followers
00:21:43
aren't going to work with them because
00:21:45
they see them as people who have fallen
00:21:49
from the path I don't want to say bad
00:21:51
things about them because I hope they're
00:21:52
living their lives and enjoying it I
00:21:54
think someday things will be ironed out
00:21:56
hopefully prayerfully but I don't think
00:21:59
it'll be ironed out with them here why
00:22:02
this whole issue with the apostates with
00:22:05
the refusal to interact to even you know
00:22:09
well that comes from the Prophet Brigham
00:22:12
Young mm-hmm
00:22:13
and he said leave apostates alone
00:22:16
severely that means we don't go out and
00:22:20
seek their company that's how I take it
00:22:24
that time my family and those around me
00:22:26
have taken it are other people taking it
00:22:28
a little bit more strictly as a person
00:22:31
that turns away from the faith they have
00:22:34
made a choice to turn away from
00:22:36
something that was very big in their
00:22:38
life mm-hmm and they had this religion
00:22:41
in their soul and when it's gone it
00:22:44
leaves a hole and everything hurts they
00:22:47
have a story to tell to they have heard
00:22:51
I can see that how many left I have no
00:22:54
idea I haven't stopped to count you have
00:22:57
to count on more than your fingers and
00:22:59
toes to get that many what does that
00:23:00
tell you that tells me that we have been
00:23:03
going through a lot of turmoil and drama
00:23:06
in our lives and some people that leave
00:23:09
leave because they just can't handle it
00:23:12
any longer
00:23:13
it is fierce
00:23:17
you
00:23:21
just don't want that bar fall on you see
00:23:36
all the cobwebs they're nice and thick
00:23:41
just a few black widows this is really
00:23:44
fascinating it's nice to look at as an
00:23:47
adult it was a storage area kind of a
00:23:51
fallout area yes there are well I heard
00:23:56
that there was an arsenal of guns that
00:24:00
were up here and we're ready to blow
00:24:03
everybody to pieces and so they came in
00:24:06
checked it out I think they found a few
00:24:09
hunting rifles and probably a lot of
00:24:11
pinto beans and tomato sauce and canned
00:24:14
fruit anybody hungry
00:24:17
these lands are very much similar to
00:24:21
maybe an Indian burial ground
00:24:23
so when when there is an evicted
00:24:27
building they feel as if somebody stole
00:24:30
their sacred burial grounds
00:24:34
[Music]
00:24:39
in 2015 there was a terrible flash flood
00:24:43
here in Short Creek and it claimed the
00:24:45
lives of mothers and children so I drove
00:24:48
to Short Creek from Las Vegas where I
00:24:50
lived and I brought in cases of Gatorade
00:24:53
it was like going back in time I was
00:24:56
among people who were living a very
00:24:58
simple life and I had the desire to come
00:25:01
back and help them eventually the desire
00:25:03
to move here was so strong I came out
00:25:05
here and I rented this building they
00:25:09
need food they need jobs they need
00:25:12
places to live they need everything a
00:25:15
humanitarian center would provide I'm
00:25:18
helping a group of people that the world
00:25:21
believes is in a very dangerous cult
00:25:25
we've helped over a thousand FLDS people
00:25:27
who were in desperate need of the some
00:25:30
of the things that we provided like what
00:25:32
well like shoes food educational
00:25:36
curriculum what's your opinion of Warren
00:25:39
Jeffs my opinion of Warren Jeffs is that
00:25:43
he because he is their leader and they
00:25:48
believe in him then I am NOT going to
00:25:51
ever publicly make any negative
00:25:54
statements about him and that's
00:25:56
something that I've kept my word I won't
00:25:59
be disrespectful to them you know
00:26:01
whether he's good or bad he's probably
00:26:03
both just like everybody else
00:26:06
I am keenly aware of the crimes
00:26:10
attributed to Warren Jeffs
00:26:12
I am also keenly aware that the people
00:26:17
here have stories where he's the hero in
00:26:20
my position I don't have the goal of
00:26:26
trying to get these people to no longer
00:26:31
see him as a prophet my job is to help
00:26:36
them
00:26:37
I'm going to see LaMotte Barlow and my
00:26:40
goal is to see what he can do to help us
00:26:43
he's a very resourceful guy we need
00:26:46
housing we need headphones we need more
00:26:50
computers we need more books they you
00:26:52
know they feel driven out they feel they
00:26:54
felt unwelcome they see their house that
00:26:56
was evicted sitting there empty for a
00:26:58
year but you know that makes them feel
00:27:00
invisible
00:27:01
when I first integrated back into this
00:27:03
community I didn't feel welcome at all I
00:27:05
had some very very very bad things said
00:27:08
to me in public places I got called a
00:27:11
liar a cheat everybody needs to feel
00:27:15
welcome I mean absolutely but two wrongs
00:27:18
don't make a right you know let's take
00:27:20
the higher Road I like what Christine is
00:27:23
trying to do these were my family my
00:27:25
brothers my sisters my uncle's making
00:27:26
hands I want to see them again we have
00:27:30
these real issues to deal with in this
00:27:31
community today and it doesn't matter
00:27:34
who the hell did what yesterday it's in
00:27:36
all of it all we want is I want to see
00:27:40
my sisters I want to know my cousin's I
00:27:44
want a freedom of exchange of
00:27:47
information deescalate the fear let's
00:27:51
make a common commitment I won't attack
00:27:54
you you don't attack me amen let's have
00:27:57
a conversation
00:27:58
and miracles can happen what Christine
00:28:02
is is setting out I think is pivotal
00:28:05
because even though she doesn't realize
00:28:07
that maybe she does and maybe she this
00:28:09
is why she's doing it she's creating a
00:28:11
platform that's a mutual respect and
00:28:15
that's where constructive conversation
00:28:17
can take place and up till now I haven't
00:28:19
seen a platform where that's possible
00:28:21
where the FLDS would be willing to even
00:28:24
walk into a room with me Wow
00:28:32
[Music]
00:28:37
hi Shirley how you doing we're headed up
00:28:40
to the property right now I was hoping
00:28:42
that Jeff could meet us there oh you're
00:28:46
there fantastic excellent okay we'll see
00:28:49
you in a minute
00:28:52
[Music]
00:28:59
so we're currently involved in several
00:29:03
transactions with regards to trying to
00:29:05
bring services back to the community I
00:29:07
think the one I'm the most passionate
00:29:09
about is the medical clinic a lot of
00:29:13
people in this community were born there
00:29:14
and so it's it's a very iconic piece of
00:29:18
property it's also a very controversial
00:29:21
property and I don't think the FLDS are
00:29:24
going to appreciate my involvement at
00:29:25
all
00:29:26
[Music]
00:29:28
it's been evicted you can see the signs
00:29:31
in the window just stop a second year
00:29:34
this is where I was born where my
00:29:36
children were born most of them that
00:29:38
weren't born in a hospital and this is
00:29:41
where our maternity ward was and it was
00:29:43
the Bishop's office and there was over a
00:29:46
hundred and eighty-five people living
00:29:48
here when it was evicted it is it hurt
00:29:55
very to see it like this I've heard that
00:29:59
they're opening back up for a clinic but
00:30:02
I'm not gonna go there
00:30:04
my family won't use that clinic none of
00:30:07
the FLDS people will use that clinic if
00:30:11
we have places taken from us where we're
00:30:14
evicted then someone moves in and lives
00:30:17
there or create to another business or
00:30:21
creates a business where it wasn't we
00:30:23
won't go there because it's apostates
00:30:28
these are the people that come back and
00:30:30
say we are here for everybody we want to
00:30:33
rebuild this community and I'm like
00:30:35
rebuild you just tore it down and this
00:30:39
used to be a hop in place and there was
00:30:41
a lot of people coming through sure you
00:30:43
know ten years ago and so the need is
00:30:46
definitely there as a group the FLDS
00:30:49
have been quite adverse to former
00:30:53
members one thing I have observed though
00:30:55
is that there's a narrative of
00:30:57
victimhood that really works for some
00:31:00
people and as long as they're being
00:31:02
persecuted and we were told this when we
00:31:04
were children when we're being
00:31:05
persecuted we know that God is testing
00:31:07
us and that we're God's true true and
00:31:09
chosen people because he's not trying
00:31:12
anybody else everybody else has it easy
00:31:15
is this a test of your faith oh it's
00:31:17
very much a test of our endurance my
00:31:20
faith is always going to be there but I
00:31:22
think it has been a test on some people
00:31:24
and you know they think is this worth
00:31:26
living this way or should I take the
00:31:27
easier road and just leave and everybody
00:31:30
will help me and love me because I'm not
00:31:32
FLDS honestly I love my religion so much
00:31:37
and I I love want to live it that even
00:31:41
if I'm tested severely I'd rather come
00:31:44
out on the good end I'd rather live like
00:31:45
job and be welcomed into the storms of
00:31:49
the Savior then to say well I'll just
00:31:51
take the easy road the rest of you guys
00:31:53
you want to come come along I I can't do
00:31:56
that
00:31:58
well there you go will you make me a
00:32:01
copy of that yeah this one yeah
00:32:08
is he charismatic Warren Jeffs I mean
00:32:12
every other lunar of every other
00:32:13
remedies to them he's charismatic I mean
00:32:16
they have a charismatic relationship
00:32:18
with him meaning that he's their
00:32:20
authority he can do no wrong he is not
00:32:23
to be questioned and you know certainly
00:32:26
he doesn't look charismatic to us when
00:32:29
we have our sort of secular view of what
00:32:31
charisma means is this a scrawny sort of
00:32:33
character but by being the Prophet he is
00:32:36
the spokesperson for God well that gives
00:32:38
him already an imbalance of power which
00:32:41
is what a charismatic relationship is
00:32:43
you're talking about third and fourth
00:32:45
generations that are going in there and
00:32:47
talking to this man who can make or
00:32:49
break them in a second right all he has
00:32:52
to do is say one word and they have they
00:32:55
have lost everything
00:32:56
they've lost their family their home
00:32:58
their job and they they they they're
00:33:01
done that's the kind of power yeah and
00:33:05
so you don't have to be Kris Matic when
00:33:08
you have people's brains wrapped around
00:33:10
a stick that hard
00:33:11
[Music]
00:33:18
it's small but it's all we got we have
00:33:21
the media center there online over here
00:33:24
we have like books for the mothers like
00:33:26
homeschooling resources because they
00:33:28
don't have the money they used to have
00:33:30
they don't get free crayons like we used
00:33:31
to
00:33:37
[Music]
00:33:41
well I would love to help get you some
00:33:44
new computers if you guys need them you
00:33:46
bet we do these are Windows 7 they don't
00:33:48
have they don't have cameras let's see
00:33:51
someone has like Windows 10 on it and
00:33:53
some of them some of that so you can
00:33:54
even do like the FaceTime I'd love to
00:33:56
help okay that would be awesome
00:33:58
I think the more that people understand
00:34:00
the mission that you guys have I think
00:34:02
you're gonna find that there's a lot of
00:34:03
support out there for that right you
00:34:06
know this is a community where there has
00:34:07
been a lot of us versus them exactly and
00:34:10
and even if you're out of the church
00:34:12
they're still doing it you know and we
00:34:14
don't we love everybody so you know
00:34:16
we're not gonna say wait are you in or
00:34:18
you out before we decide whether to help
00:34:20
you it's small but you know what all
00:34:22
good things come from what little seeds
00:34:24
well it's bursting sometimes we have 20
00:34:27
people in here you know and it aren't we
00:34:29
bursting you guys apparently yeah this
00:34:35
is do you know her I do not this is
00:34:37
Angela by slang David by slang I know
00:34:41
you this is Lamont and this is Kendall
00:34:46
hello good to meet you you too this is
00:34:50
Natalie uh Natalie he came into my
00:34:54
Center and we showed him what we were
00:34:56
doing and he was like dumbfounded
00:34:58
then the FLDS came in I thought my heart
00:35:01
was gonna pound out of my chest
00:35:03
do you know him I don't recognize any of
00:35:06
them you've changed a little yeah I
00:35:11
remember norm of it they all remember me
00:35:13
I'm kind of an older so yeah
00:35:15
good to see you guys my and my long
00:35:24
history of involvement in all of this
00:35:26
this has never happened to me in my life
00:35:28
ever the fact that we're standing here
00:35:30
doing is is honestly someone would have
00:35:34
told me ten years ago that this was that
00:35:36
this would happen and I would have said
00:35:37
you were completely does this is why I
00:35:39
like what Christine is trying to do
00:35:42
she's taking away that that pressure
00:35:45
that constant you're wrong making them
00:35:47
feel like they're not under constant
00:35:50
attack and that I can be open I can't
00:35:53
have a conversation with somebody that
00:35:55
is an apostate two of you sitting here
00:35:58
right now is unprecedented in that
00:36:02
extent what do you hope to accomplish
00:36:04
both of you my effort in returning to
00:36:07
the community is I want to see the
00:36:10
economy revitalized I want to see common
00:36:13
respect let's go have Thanksgiving
00:36:15
dinner like a family and and that would
00:36:19
be the end game and there's all kinds of
00:36:21
families in America that have diverse
00:36:23
beliefs in their families they're
00:36:25
Mormons and and Baptists and Buddhists
00:36:28
and whatever and they all can get
00:36:30
together and have a good old Christmas
00:36:32
party that's what I'd like to see happen
00:36:35
and I believe it can happen I really do
00:36:38
believe that really I do believe it yes
00:36:42
do you think this is a pipe dream of
00:36:43
LeMans I'm glad he dreams what so I mean
00:36:49
I can't work with that dream Norma what
00:36:51
is so wrong with that there's nothing
00:36:53
wrong with them dreaming I know about
00:36:56
being able to trust and and share the
00:37:03
world so to speak as well as
00:37:05
Thanksgiving it's a lot deeper and
00:37:09
there's a lot of pain on both sides
00:37:13
where I know it sounds like the ideal
00:37:17
and and I hear yeah but
00:37:20
you know what I'm thinking could crashes
00:37:24
or lands are gone our buildings are
00:37:27
being taken there's lots of empty when
00:37:29
sitting there well people are suffering
00:37:31
outside of the community that he
00:37:33
probably doesn't even realize I do
00:37:35
because I know him and they're going
00:37:38
without
00:37:40
[Music]
00:37:44
comfort and strength and they see a
00:37:47
conference train you have to know how to
00:37:52
be silent sexually and for the other
00:37:57
side prevents to that comfort industry
00:38:00
you have to be able to assist each other
00:38:04
and no one just stands around everyone
00:38:10
and you have to be prepared I feel like
00:38:17
really good people had their honest and
00:38:20
sincere beliefs manipulated and used
00:38:23
against them Norma Wow um I don't feel
00:38:32
like I'm manipulated and there's never
00:38:34
within you a seed of doubt absolutely
00:38:38
not there's never been a time when
00:38:39
there's been an edict or a I wanna say
00:38:43
ruling but the decision that's come down
00:38:46
and you thought that doesn't seem right
00:38:49
you are an educated person you are not a
00:38:53
blind mouse following not knowing better
00:39:00
and you've never once had any moment of
00:39:02
doubt no not even and if it came down to
00:39:08
me being the last family affiliates in
00:39:10
the community I would have a hard time
00:39:12
wanting to stay I need my religion I
00:39:15
need it I want it and no I
00:39:21
I probably wouldn't go and have
00:39:23
Christmas dinner with my ex members of
00:39:27
the church and stuff but it doesn't mean
00:39:29
I don't love him it doesn't mean that I
00:39:31
don't want them to have happiness it's I
00:39:34
just can't be with you it just can't be
00:39:38
you know honestly I don't hate them
00:39:41
I wish the very best for them I pray for
00:39:44
them I want them to be happy I just
00:39:48
don't think they have the right to be on
00:39:50
consecrated land if you make a choice
00:39:55
and you can its freedom we have just as
00:39:59
much freedom there as we do anywhere
00:40:00
else you can make whatever choice you
00:40:01
want you still don't get to come and
00:40:04
keep the land where we got her just in
00:40:09
time
00:40:10
the land belongs to Heavenly Father
00:40:13
fireworks
00:40:14
heavenly father's fireworks yep it's a
00:40:18
perfect place it was dedicated to him by
00:40:23
our fathers and grandfathers and it
00:40:26
belongs to him it doesn't belong to me
00:40:28
it doesn't belong to anyone else but
00:40:31
we'll never feel fully complete without
00:40:33
the Prophet
00:40:38
there are still members of the FLDS who
00:40:42
believe Warren Jeffs is a prophet a holy
00:40:48
man they revere him this is a group that
00:40:51
doesn't recruit so it's not like they're
00:40:54
recruiting somebody who's thirty who's
00:40:56
everybody's born into this everybody's
00:40:58
born into it everybody just saw Norma
00:41:00
she's an educated smart woman who
00:41:04
refuses to believe me all the evidence
00:41:07
right she refuses to look at all the
00:41:09
evidence and the evidence that she has
00:41:11
looked at she refuses to believe because
00:41:14
she is enveloped in this what I call
00:41:16
this bounded reality she's in a very
00:41:19
closed world so it's very image she said
00:41:21
herself
00:41:22
I need this religion it's for her to
00:41:25
face something different would be more
00:41:27
shattering to her than just staying
00:41:30
where she is probably knowing in the
00:41:32
back of her mind that there's a great
00:41:34
deal of truth to it she just can't look
00:41:36
at it so you're saying that because her
00:41:38
world is so closed her mind is her mind
00:41:42
is closed its she is a perfect example
00:41:44
of that kind of single mindedness that
00:41:47
people get trapped into
00:41:54
you know there's a big narrative out
00:41:56
there about how the women there are
00:41:59
brainwashed which wow that the children
00:42:04
are oppressed they want to get out of
00:42:06
there that they need to see the real
00:42:07
world I don't know I think I see quite a
00:42:12
bit of the real world and I'm right
00:42:14
where I want to be I don't think I want
00:42:15
to be out of the the culture I don't
00:42:17
want to be out of my religion I don't
00:42:20
need a big gaping hole in my soul I want
00:42:26
to stay where I feel good and
00:42:27
comfortable happy and fulfilled and
00:42:31
that's my religion does that for me
