Non Binary Trans Debate: Piers Morgan vs. Fox & Owl

00:15:04
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cRBUHGpHpY

概要

TLDRLa vidéo explore la controverse autour des identités de genre non-binaires, discutant des uniformes scolaires neutres et des changements dans les cérémonies de remise des prix qui adoptent des modèles sans genre. Les invités, Fox et Owl, expliquent leur expérience en tant qu'individus non-binaires, remettant en question les préconceptions de genre et en discutant avec un présentateur sceptique. Le débat touche sur des préoccupations pratiques comme l'incarcération de personnes non-binaires et les impacts sociaux sur les jeunes. Le sujet évoque également les défis d'adaptation pour les institutions comme les écoles et les autorités légales face à l'évolution des identités de genre.

収穫

  • 💡 Les écoles et la police adoptent des uniformes neutres.
  • 🎭 Les identités non-binaires remettent en question les normes traditionnelles de genre.
  • 📜 Les identités de genre alternatives sont reconnues dans quelques pays.
  • 🗣️ L'utilisation de pronoms neutres 'they/them' est discutée.
  • ⚖️ Débat sur les implications légales des identités non-binaires.
  • 🏫 Augmentation des élèves s'identifiant comme non-binaires.
  • 🌍 Controverse sur l'influence sociale et la 'mode' des identités.
  • 📂 La question de l'incarcération des individus non-binaires est posée.
  • 🌈 Le soutien et la reconnaissance des individus transgenres est confirmée.
  • 📊 Les statistiques sur le suicide chez les jeunes transgenres suscitent des débats.

タイムライン

  • 00:00:00 - 00:05:00

    Les discussions sur les récompenses non-genrées suscitent beaucoup de débats. Certaines institutions, comme la police et les écoles, adoptent des uniformes neutres. Des invités comme Fox et Owl, qui se définissent comme non-binaires, partagent leur expérience et leur perception des attentes de la société en matière de genre. Ils expliquent leur parcours personnel de transition et défendent l'idée que l'identité de genre va au-delà des catégories traditionnelles de masculin et féminin.

  • 00:05:00 - 00:10:00

    Piers exprime son soutien pour les droits transgenres mais reste confus face au concept de neutralité de genre. Le débat se poursuit autour de l'utilisation correcte des pronoms, Fox et Owl expliquant qu'ils préfèrent être appelés "ils" au lieu de "il" ou "elle". La discussion aborde la reconnaissance des identités non-binaires dans différents pays et comment cela se reflète dans des documents officiels comme le passeport. Piers questionne également les limites de l'identification personnelle et fait des comparaisons avec la race pour illustrer son point de vue.

  • 00:10:00 - 00:15:04

    Fox et Owl discutent du potentiel impact des questions de genre neutre, particulièrement dans des contextes comme les écoles et les prisons. Ils soulignent l'importance de considérer les taux élevés de tentatives de suicide parmi les jeunes trans comme une question urgente et dissocient la discussion sur le genre de celles sur la race. Les invités clarifient que la reconnaissance de l'identité non-binaire ne vise pas à effacer les catégories existantes mais à offrir une inclusion plus large. Le segment se termine sur une note d'ouverture, invitant à continuer la conversation sur l'identité et l'expression de genre.

マインドマップ

Mind Map

よくある質問

  • Qu'est-ce qu'une identité de genre non-binaire ?

    C'est une identification ni strictement masculine ni féminine, reconnue dans certains pays.

  • Quel est l'impact de l'acceptation des identités de genre non-binaires ?

    Cela affecte les politiques comme les uniformes neutres dans les genres et nécessite une reconnaissance légale.

  • Comment les personnes non-binaires souhaitent-elles être désignées ?

    Elles peuvent préférer des pronoms neutres comme 'iel' ou 'iel'.

  • Le débat mentionne-t-il des changements dans les institutions ?

    Oui, notamment dans les écoles et les forces de police adoptant des mesures inclusives.

  • Quels sont les arguments contre la reconnaissance des identités non-binaires ?

    Des critiques argumentent qu’elles peuvent brouiller les frontières traditionnelles de genre.

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  • 00:00:00
    AC in a gender neutral award and then
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    the police force and a primary school in
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    North London decided to also Embrace
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    gender neutral uniforms so after the
  • 00:00:09
    over the past week Good Morning Britain
  • 00:00:11
    has been inundated about questions about
  • 00:00:14
    those who classify themselves as neither
  • 00:00:16
    male nor female people like Fox and Owl
  • 00:00:21
    who join us this morning uh is something
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    which as you know has got peers very
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    exercised and it is something that
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    frankly others us find quite confusing
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    so let's have a look back on our gender
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    debate so far gender neutral award shows
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    that's what the world has come to you
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    can be gender neutral you can be
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    polygender you can be a TWP person
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    little person arrived did you have a boy
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    or girl don't be so offensive I had a
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    person the queen can't be called the
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    queen anymore no she left to be called
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    can't wait for the Oscars can you best
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    person in a leading role can't we just
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    have male and female police officers
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    anymore why should the police be
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    pandering to a tiny tiny proportion of
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    the country who decide they don't want
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    to be called man or woman my grandmother
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    say little boys of your age should be
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    kept in a cage instead of a tool to a
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    hole in the wall she had it right I
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    might wear a skirt to work tomorrow as
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    part of my new gender neutral non-binary
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    uh identity be a woman disappointingly
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    Pier didn't wear a skirt to well no cuz
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    I realized it wouldn't be gender neutral
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    I would obviously be leaning towards
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    being female and we can't have that in
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    the modern world so uh Fox Fisher and Al
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    you don't have a surname Al uh I do it's
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    yter an Icelandic let's keep it Al yeah
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    um you're both
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    non-binary yes neither male nor female
  • 00:01:49
    yes I know I'm shading on eggshells here
  • 00:01:51
    so let's first of all welcome I
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    appreciate thank you for coming in
  • 00:01:54
    because frankly this is as our viewers
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    will know this is an an issue exercise
  • 00:02:00
    Pier uh with with great sort of vigor
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    and passion it is also something that
  • 00:02:05
    many of us feel really confused about we
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    want to be sensitive about it it it is
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    confusing Fox I can't even say can I
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    that you were born a certain gender
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    because you disagree with the idea that
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    you were born either male or well I say
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    I say you were born what were you born
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    can I answer PS absolutely so I was
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    assigned female at Birth and it's
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    perfectly okay to say that what does
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    that mean assign female so it means that
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    when I popped out and my sister's having
  • 00:02:32
    a c-section today actually so we're
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    going
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    to is she having has it been assigned
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    yet well that's the first thing people
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    ask isn't it are you a boy or are you a
  • 00:02:40
    girl and this an opportunity my book
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    comes out tomorrow are you boy much are
  • 00:02:44
    you a boy or girl I'm very much boy um
  • 00:02:46
    but let's get back to you fox so you
  • 00:02:48
    were born so I was a son female at Birth
  • 00:02:50
    so you born a girl I never felt truly
  • 00:02:52
    comfortable with my own body and so I
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    really struggled throughout my my
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    teenage years my the wrong puberty as I
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    was going to be that I felt more more
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    disconnected with myself I was really
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    confused with uh you know whether I fit
  • 00:03:04
    into this world and I took steps
  • 00:03:07
    eventually to start to transition but as
  • 00:03:09
    I did that I realized that I was going
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    from one set of expectations to another
  • 00:03:13
    set of expectations as well because
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    there extreme expectations for men and
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    women in this world and I thought it's
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    all about authenticity have you had have
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    you had a full transgender operation or
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    what have you had well it's not really
  • 00:03:26
    about that you know it's about gender
  • 00:03:28
    identity versus gender expression my
  • 00:03:30
    gender identity is nonbinary my gender
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    expression is more masculine so I hope
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    that clears it up it doesn't clear up at
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    all for me so I might be the stupid one
  • 00:03:38
    here what what are you now what what do
  • 00:03:40
    you call yourself what am I so I Define
  • 00:03:42
    as non-binary what does that mean that
  • 00:03:44
    means that I identify as neither male or
  • 00:03:48
    female fully and these identities are
  • 00:03:51
    recognized in other countries like New
  • 00:03:52
    Zealand Australia Malta and other places
  • 00:03:55
    what's on your passport at the moment on
  • 00:03:56
    my passport it says mail actually so
  • 00:03:59
    because you the transgender operation
  • 00:04:01
    well you don't actually don't need to
  • 00:04:02
    have a trans operation to have mail on
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    your passport you can be recognized as
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    that either way I didn't know that oh
  • 00:04:08
    you had uh what some people might
  • 00:04:10
    consider a complete opposite experience
  • 00:04:13
    so when you were born yeah I was
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    assigned M at Birth uh who assigned you
  • 00:04:18
    uh the doctor when I was born basically
  • 00:04:20
    what about your
  • 00:04:21
    parents you know every when you are born
  • 00:04:23
    people perceive you as male or female
  • 00:04:25
    based on your genitals but it's not it's
  • 00:04:28
    not a completely irrational thing to do
  • 00:04:30
    not at all no because
  • 00:04:31
    99.999% of the entire planet is quite
  • 00:04:34
    happy to be called boy or girl yeah of
  • 00:04:36
    course you accept that
  • 00:04:38
    yeah did your parents wait for the
  • 00:04:40
    doctor to assign you or did they say oh
  • 00:04:42
    we got a it's a system that's in our
  • 00:04:44
    society that has been made up did they
  • 00:04:46
    say we've got a little boy or did they
  • 00:04:47
    wait for the doctor to say your
  • 00:04:49
    assignation is your child is well I
  • 00:04:52
    don't recall that moment myself I can't
  • 00:04:54
    really say what happened in that moment
  • 00:04:56
    but you know they say this is a boy or
  • 00:04:58
    girl you thought you were also and by
  • 00:05:00
    the I completely respect people who feel
  • 00:05:02
    like they have been born in the wrong
  • 00:05:05
    sex I get that I completely support all
  • 00:05:07
    transgender rights I think that it's a
  • 00:05:09
    huge deal to go through what you guys go
  • 00:05:12
    through and I totally respect it and
  • 00:05:13
    would want Total equality for you so
  • 00:05:15
    that's just put that on the table it's
  • 00:05:17
    an important clarification my confusion
  • 00:05:20
    comes with the gender neutrality aspect
  • 00:05:22
    of this because to me you were born a
  • 00:05:25
    boy and I know you don't like that term
  • 00:05:27
    but you were born a boy and you've
  • 00:05:29
    become a girl now a woman but you
  • 00:05:32
    dispute that you don't think you are a
  • 00:05:33
    woman no because I think there's very
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    strong ideas about what it is to be a
  • 00:05:37
    man and a woman in our society and those
  • 00:05:39
    ideas are entirely socially constructed
  • 00:05:41
    the thing we expect of women and men to
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    do and as a trans person who's been
  • 00:05:46
    perceived as man through most part of my
  • 00:05:48
    life who transitioned I noticed how
  • 00:05:51
    people perceive you differently in these
  • 00:05:53
    expectations we we can't call you he or
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    she just to clarify one thing right you
  • 00:05:56
    can call us they that would be fine
  • 00:05:58
    singular plural but when you say they I
  • 00:06:00
    mean they is a plural word for more than
  • 00:06:02
    one person a sing yeah you can actually
  • 00:06:04
    use it as a singular pronoun nobody does
  • 00:06:06
    do they I mean my point course you do if
  • 00:06:08
    you don't know someone's uh gender you
  • 00:06:10
    would say well where are they or I hope
  • 00:06:12
    they win the competition or something
  • 00:06:13
    like that but I can't say like she said
  • 00:06:15
    something you have to say they said
  • 00:06:16
    something you could say they or you
  • 00:06:17
    could say our so they said something to
  • 00:06:19
    they to them to them sorry they said
  • 00:06:22
    something to them yeah does that mean
  • 00:06:24
    rather than she she said something to
  • 00:06:28
    him him is that because you feel like
  • 00:06:29
    you're two genders at the same time no
  • 00:06:33
    it feels because I sort of denounce the
  • 00:06:35
    idea of being a man or a woman so a
  • 00:06:37
    non-binary is an identity on its own
  • 00:06:39
    outside of this binary of but there are
  • 00:06:41
    71 different current Facebook ways of
  • 00:06:43
    identifying your gender including two
  • 00:06:46
    spirit person gender fluid and all sorts
  • 00:06:48
    of other stuff do you categorize
  • 00:06:50
    yourselves as any one of the 71 well
  • 00:06:52
    it's wonderful to have all those
  • 00:06:53
    different identifications is it or is it
  • 00:06:55
    just it mudes the waters a little bit I
  • 00:06:58
    me respect what people want to be called
  • 00:07:00
    but do have help why do I have
  • 00:07:04
    to I turn around right now and I said to
  • 00:07:07
    you I am a black woman you have said
  • 00:07:10
    that you said what you said you're black
  • 00:07:11
    non binary haven't you well I made a
  • 00:07:12
    joke yesterday but I'm being actually
  • 00:07:13
    partly serious if I just decided to
  • 00:07:16
    identify myself as a completely
  • 00:07:18
    different skin color to the one that I
  • 00:07:20
    am that would clearly be ridiculous
  • 00:07:22
    right but if I did would you respect my
  • 00:07:25
    right to identify myself how I choose
  • 00:07:27
    we're not here to talk about race we're
  • 00:07:28
    here to talk about asking you about race
  • 00:07:31
    I'm taking your logic to its logical
  • 00:07:33
    conclusion it doesn't really change
  • 00:07:34
    anything about my life about how person
  • 00:07:37
    you can identify in any way that you
  • 00:07:40
    want change how we Iden I'm just asking
  • 00:07:42
    a simple question if I just now identify
  • 00:07:45
    as a black woman would you both
  • 00:07:47
    absolutely think that's fine but you
  • 00:07:49
    don't this isn't hypothetical thing and
  • 00:07:51
    you don't I just you're just doing it
  • 00:07:53
    for the sake of the AR I'm doing it as a
  • 00:07:54
    hypothetical to get your response to a
  • 00:07:56
    logical extension to the argument that
  • 00:07:58
    you can basically if Y in any way you
  • 00:08:00
    you can you can the problem is that this
  • 00:08:02
    is a hypothetical intellectual
  • 00:08:04
    discussion for you
  • 00:08:05
    but yours is hyp you want the right well
  • 00:08:09
    okay so basically you want the rights to
  • 00:08:11
    identify how you choose and we all have
  • 00:08:13
    to and we all have to respect that and
  • 00:08:15
    now have non-binary Awards and so on but
  • 00:08:17
    you do not want to afford me the same
  • 00:08:19
    rights to give myself an identity of my
  • 00:08:22
    choice and that's my point about this
  • 00:08:23
    there seems to be a hypocrisy and
  • 00:08:25
    inconsistency there's no hypocrisy if
  • 00:08:27
    you truly want to identify in that way
  • 00:08:29
    you can but I know that you don't but
  • 00:08:31
    would you respect my right to call
  • 00:08:33
    myself I'm serious can I call myself a
  • 00:08:37
    black woman can I identify as that can I
  • 00:08:39
    put it you know can I say I'm now a
  • 00:08:41
    black woman or do you or it's a serious
  • 00:08:44
    race is race different to gender I would
  • 00:08:46
    say it's a completely different
  • 00:08:47
    discussion animal that of course you
  • 00:08:49
    would it's your argument to say that but
  • 00:08:51
    it is right it's all about self identity
  • 00:08:53
    and my issue with this is you've now got
  • 00:08:55
    I told the story A friend of mine has a
  • 00:08:57
    girl at school and eight girls in her
  • 00:08:59
    year are now non-binary right so schools
  • 00:09:02
    are now running Riot with kids who
  • 00:09:04
    running Riot yes they are running Riot
  • 00:09:06
    when there's eight kids in one year in
  • 00:09:07
    one school in this country it means it's
  • 00:09:09
    now like a contagion of young kids who
  • 00:09:12
    no longer want to be classified it's not
  • 00:09:14
    a disease well a contagion can be like
  • 00:09:16
    something that spirals around well
  • 00:09:18
    that's what they said about
  • 00:09:19
    homosexuality 20 years ago it's
  • 00:09:20
    completely different to homosexuality
  • 00:09:22
    then why is race and gender suddenly
  • 00:09:24
    because you you you want to be
  • 00:09:25
    non-gender nonb no not non-gender what's
  • 00:09:29
    difference well you keep talking about
  • 00:09:31
    gender neutrality and it's not like I go
  • 00:09:33
    around telling people that I'm gender
  • 00:09:34
    neutral there's there's no lack of of
  • 00:09:36
    anything I just Define as non-binary so
  • 00:09:38
    I I refuse to to be to identify myself
  • 00:09:43
    as male or female man or a woman wonder
  • 00:09:45
    if we can because it's obviously you
  • 00:09:47
    know it's it's been a big subject on our
  • 00:09:49
    program gets a huge response whenever we
  • 00:09:51
    talk about it I know this interview will
  • 00:09:52
    generate a lot of comments and we admire
  • 00:09:55
    you coming on to debate this no we do I
  • 00:09:56
    do it you know and it is really
  • 00:09:58
    important debate to have I just wonder
  • 00:10:00
    how many people it affects I just think
  • 00:10:02
    that non-binary issues aren't going to
  • 00:10:04
    go away so it's either you get on board
  • 00:10:06
    or you know we end guess with how many
  • 00:10:08
    how many people are we in terms of
  • 00:10:10
    thetion population thing you know a lot
  • 00:10:12
    of people you know what does non-binary
  • 00:10:14
    look like that's we're here to kind of
  • 00:10:16
    show you that actually gender expression
  • 00:10:17
    and gender identity are two different
  • 00:10:19
    things and nonbing people aren't just
  • 00:10:21
    wearing paper bags let me give you
  • 00:10:22
    another hypothetical yesterday we
  • 00:10:24
    interviewed a guy from a police force in
  • 00:10:26
    Northampton they've gone gender neutral
  • 00:10:27
    made a point of saying that um I said to
  • 00:10:30
    them okay what about if criminals decide
  • 00:10:31
    to be gender neutral and so when they're
  • 00:10:35
    convicted they do not want to be put in
  • 00:10:37
    a male or female prison do we now have
  • 00:10:40
    to build prisons for non-binary
  • 00:10:42
    criminals it's a very interesting
  • 00:10:44
    question what's the answer I don't know
  • 00:10:45
    if I have the answer to that you would
  • 00:10:47
    presumably encourage them to have
  • 00:10:50
    because they can't be put in a male or
  • 00:10:51
    female prism right well if I went to
  • 00:10:53
    prison or I went to prison what would
  • 00:10:54
    happen well where would you where would
  • 00:10:55
    you be put we would be I would be put in
  • 00:10:57
    a female prison because of my gender
  • 00:10:59
    marker in my passport right but would
  • 00:11:01
    you be happy about that more than going
  • 00:11:03
    to a m prison for sure right so actually
  • 00:11:06
    you don't mind being gender fine if it's
  • 00:11:10
    convenient we exist in a very binary
  • 00:11:12
    world you know so we have to if it was
  • 00:11:14
    up to us obviously you see the point the
  • 00:11:16
    worry I have about this and it's more
  • 00:11:17
    based on confusion to be honest with you
  • 00:11:20
    uh and just trying to get my head round
  • 00:11:21
    I'm happy to be persuaded if it makes
  • 00:11:23
    logical sense my problem with everyone
  • 00:11:25
    just being free to identify themselves
  • 00:11:27
    in any way they choose is where does
  • 00:11:29
    that end where do they where are any
  • 00:11:32
    boundaries for kids for instance at
  • 00:11:34
    school if you can basically come in and
  • 00:11:35
    say I'm not a boy or girl anymore what
  • 00:11:38
    else can you say you're not you know if
  • 00:11:39
    I identify now as anything is it is is
  • 00:11:43
    anything fine I mean can I be anything I
  • 00:11:45
    want can I be an elephant can I
  • 00:11:46
    literally literally say I'm now an
  • 00:11:48
    elephant and do I get afforded elephant
  • 00:11:51
    rights can I get a London Zoo I know you
  • 00:11:54
    think it sounds silly but I'm taking
  • 00:11:55
    your AR can I go to London Zoo and
  • 00:11:57
    demand to be put in an elant
  • 00:12:00
    I decided I'm an elepant the real
  • 00:12:01
    question should be why is it that 48% of
  • 00:12:05
    trans youth are attempting suicide and I
  • 00:12:07
    think we need to look into that how many
  • 00:12:09
    a real thing okay how many trans youths
  • 00:12:12
    in Britain last year committed suicide I
  • 00:12:14
    can't tell you that it's like I can find
  • 00:12:16
    out for you I heard it's like two or
  • 00:12:17
    three people which two or three people
  • 00:12:19
    it's incredibly that's what I heard
  • 00:12:20
    right is that true or not well I'd say
  • 00:12:22
    that that's definitely not true well
  • 00:12:23
    that's just a statistic I read I don't
  • 00:12:24
    know if that's true or not my point
  • 00:12:25
    about it is this however terrible for
  • 00:12:28
    those people and anyone who commits
  • 00:12:29
    suicide it's awful right we all accept
  • 00:12:32
    that but the idea that the entire gender
  • 00:12:36
    of the planet has to be changed because
  • 00:12:39
    a very tiny percentage of people have
  • 00:12:41
    decid it's not this isn't just a modern
  • 00:12:43
    phenomena as well it's important to look
  • 00:12:45
    at other cultures cultures sorry it's
  • 00:12:48
    not about erasing gender nobody's saying
  • 00:12:50
    that people cannot be men or women we're
  • 00:12:52
    saying that people can also be
  • 00:12:53
    non-binary and
  • 00:12:55
    gender what about the names Fox and Al
  • 00:12:59
    well okay so for me Fox was my drag King
  • 00:13:01
    name so before I transitioned I would
  • 00:13:03
    dress up and and perform okay and that
  • 00:13:06
    was a way to to kind of real it was it
  • 00:13:08
    was about experimenting with myself oh
  • 00:13:09
    it's a translation as my Icelandic name
  • 00:13:11
    which is ugla and it means but you know
  • 00:13:13
    what I admire you for coming in I I
  • 00:13:16
    think it is really important that these
  • 00:13:18
    discussions it's an ongoing conversation
  • 00:13:19
    I think absolutely is I know it's a real
  • 00:13:22
    fact it's a real thing it's happening
  • 00:13:24
    now all over Britain schools are very
  • 00:13:27
    very fast moving with a lot of kids now
  • 00:13:29
    wanting to be non-binary conc please
  • 00:13:32
    stop Fe
  • 00:13:33
    monging but my problem is that actually
  • 00:13:36
    it's a massive new fad and we're going
  • 00:13:38
    to end up with half kid realize it's not
  • 00:13:40
    a fad Pier no I think for a lot of
  • 00:13:42
    people it isn't you're not telling me
  • 00:13:43
    that eight kids in one year at one girl
  • 00:13:45
    sto this country suddenly woke up and
  • 00:13:47
    said we feel nonbinary they heard you
  • 00:13:50
    guys talking about being nonbinary I
  • 00:13:51
    think it's cool it's not about being
  • 00:13:53
    cool it's about an inner sense of self
  • 00:13:55
    and an identity that you girls in one
  • 00:13:58
    year at a girl school
  • 00:14:00
    one month all suddenly decided we want
  • 00:14:02
    we want to be nonbinary whatever it is
  • 00:14:04
    why can't they what does it change do
  • 00:14:06
    change a discuss about how does it
  • 00:14:08
    affect your life and what they do you do
  • 00:14:10
    you abide by the laws of the
  • 00:14:13
    land J it what does that mean I do you
  • 00:14:15
    abide by do you recognize there are laws
  • 00:14:17
    and boundaries in society where are you
  • 00:14:20
    going with this period know you know
  • 00:14:21
    where I'm going with this go on isn't
  • 00:14:24
    isn't gender a societal thing that we
  • 00:14:26
    should just respect and acknowledge that
  • 00:14:28
    that's the way it is isn't everything
  • 00:14:30
    subject to change and what what maybe
  • 00:14:32
    you might be right and that's exactly
  • 00:14:33
    what we're trying to say you need to
  • 00:14:35
    respect people's gender and their
  • 00:14:36
    identity we're going to have to hugely
  • 00:14:38
    change this program unless I bring this
  • 00:14:39
    to an end but Fox Andel thank you very
  • 00:14:41
    much to it is good to see you apprting
  • 00:14:45
    read the book it's for threeyear olds
  • 00:14:46
    and plus so it should be good for you P
  • 00:14:48
    are you a boy or are you a girl very
  • 00:14:51
    binary title but uh yeah yeah it's it's
  • 00:14:53
    an introduction you have a lot of stuff
  • 00:14:55
    on YouTube I have to leave this
  • 00:14:56
    discussion to continue because Andy's
  • 00:14:58
    here with a competition
  • 00:15:02
    good morning
タグ
  • gender
  • non-binary
  • inclusive
  • uniformes
  • débat
  • transgenre
  • droits
  • société
  • identité
  • neutralité