00:00:00
welcome to another episode of the
00:00:01
dissection an sabc employee has gone
00:00:04
viral for poor conduct on a flight the
00:00:08
employee was drinking alcohol at the
00:00:10
slow lounge with her partner prior to
00:00:13
the flight she then went on to board and
00:00:16
fly SAA flight from Cape Town to Durban
00:00:21
during the flight the sabc employee
00:00:24
became unruly and belligerent to say the
00:00:27
very least this is um
00:00:30
a series of events which has been
00:00:32
captured widely on various social media
00:00:35
platforms Tik Tok Twitter as well as
00:00:39
other platforms such as Facebook to say
00:00:42
she was unruly and belligerent is saying
00:00:45
the least of it in the most diplomatic
00:00:47
terms so in the process of this unruly
00:00:52
and belligerent Behavior fly Safir
00:00:55
employees were assaulted fly sa Fair
00:00:59
employees were insulted by the sabc
00:01:02
employee in her drunk trate the sabc
00:01:06
employee spoke about how this series of
00:01:09
events would be covered by the sabc
00:01:12
inferring in some way that this series
00:01:14
of events would be covered in a way
00:01:16
which would be
00:01:17
unfavorable to the fly SFA employees and
00:01:22
the airline and maybe even the other
00:01:24
passengers who were on the flight trying
00:01:26
to restain restrain her and chide her in
00:01:29
that particular series of drunken trades
00:01:33
the sabc employee also made reference to
00:01:36
how they were a member of the ANC in GR
00:01:39
in good standing they said I'm ancb TCH
00:01:43
right and that's what they made
00:01:44
reference to the identity of the sabc
00:01:48
employee was determined people who knew
00:01:51
this person went and found her on
00:01:54
LinkedIn and actually saw that he or she
00:01:57
was she was directly uh you know related
00:02:00
in terms of employment wise with the
00:02:02
sabc and this particular individual has
00:02:05
been an sabc employee in that particular
00:02:08
role for 4 months right so it's a recent
00:02:11
job they have a long history working in
00:02:14
uh Marketing in public relations and
00:02:16
other fields of that nature but at the
00:02:18
sabc they've only been there for 4
00:02:20
months so social media users have been
00:02:24
asking an important question one that is
00:02:27
very relevant considering how we're
00:02:30
going into New Year's um Eve
00:02:32
celebrations and people are going to be
00:02:34
drinking they're going to be traveling
00:02:36
and you need to be aware of where does
00:02:38
the law stand in relation to you and
00:02:41
your employee they've been asking
00:02:43
whether you can be fired for conduct
00:02:45
that happened off duty off off your um
00:02:50
employer premises during
00:02:53
leave in this video I'm going to provide
00:02:56
an answer that will help you um many of
00:02:59
you may not know if you're watching and
00:03:01
haven't been following me recently um or
00:03:04
you've started following me recently
00:03:05
rather I actually studied and completed
00:03:08
a law degree and LLB degree at vdz
00:03:10
University so I'll give you a short
00:03:12
summary about what the law says on this
00:03:15
particular question but before I discuss
00:03:17
that issue it's important to note that
00:03:20
the sabc has already issued a statement
00:03:22
on this particular issue and their
00:03:24
statement reads as
00:03:26
follows the sabc condemns staff members
00:03:29
conduct on a flight the South African
00:03:32
Broadcasting Corporation has noted with
00:03:34
concern audiovisual material circulating
00:03:37
on various social media platforms
00:03:40
featuring a staff member traveling on a
00:03:42
South African Airline the sabc regrets
00:03:45
this incident and as and always
00:03:47
encourages staff members to uphold sabc
00:03:51
values of respect and integrity in all
00:03:53
their interactions in the video clip the
00:03:56
staff member mentions the sabc and
00:03:59
states that this incident will be
00:04:00
broadcast on sabc news we would like to
00:04:03
reiterate that sabc news is Guided by
00:04:07
the editorial code and maintains it its
00:04:10
editorial Independence and the decisions
00:04:13
pertaining to all news items are made in
00:04:15
The Newsroom and are not influenced by
00:04:17
non-editorial staff members the sabc
00:04:20
will use the relevant channels in line
00:04:23
with its internal procedures to engage
00:04:25
the staff member this statement is what
00:04:28
has made people question whether or not
00:04:31
the sabc can actually dismiss this
00:04:33
individual and whether or not you can be
00:04:35
dismissed for individual that did not
00:04:37
happened on the employee premises and
00:04:39
also that happened while you were on
00:04:41
leave and that did not necessarily
00:04:44
happen as you were executing any role as
00:04:47
an employee of the company so there are
00:04:49
two cases that I want to bring to your
00:04:51
attention which have basically resolved
00:04:55
this question the first one is the edcon
00:04:58
case and this uh pertains to events that
00:05:01
happened also in December in 2015 so
00:05:05
miss kesa was employed and this is a
00:05:08
summary of the fact by edcon as a
00:05:10
specialist buyer of ladies wear and this
00:05:13
was a senior position in December of
00:05:15
2015 you may recall December of 2015 was
00:05:19
after a variety
00:05:21
ofc Shenanigans if you will Zuma had
00:05:24
fired uh ministers and rehired ministers
00:05:27
they had been cabinet reshuffles zumas
00:05:30
fall was trending as a hashtag and this
00:05:34
all had been escalating and percolating
00:05:36
in the discourse so in December of
00:05:39
2015 December by the way seems to be a
00:05:42
feature in some of the incidences which
00:05:44
we are discussing December January I
00:05:47
think it's because people are drinking a
00:05:48
lot of alcohol in December and um the
00:05:52
alcohol is having an influence so miss
00:05:55
kesa was angry about the political
00:05:57
developments in South Africa paining to
00:06:00
Jacob Zuma and thec she then went on to
00:06:03
her Facebook and she called the
00:06:07
politicians stupid monkeys and called Mr
00:06:10
Zuma a stupid man she said more but I'm
00:06:13
just giving you a summary of of what she
00:06:15
said she published that um on her
00:06:18
Facebook and at the time Miss kessa's uh
00:06:22
Facebook stated that she was employed by
00:06:24
edcon as a fashion buyer all of this
00:06:27
happened while she was on annual leave
00:06:29
and she used her own devices to make the
00:06:32
post in January a complaint was lodged
00:06:35
and the complaint was actually lodged
00:06:37
after the penny Sparrow upro which
00:06:39
related to her posts calling Africans
00:06:42
monkeys and saying a variety of racist
00:06:44
things so miss kessa's post also came to
00:06:47
the attention of social media users at
00:06:50
the time and the soetan newspaper then
00:06:53
published a story on the issue Miss kesa
00:06:56
was called into a disciplinary hearing
00:06:58
she was suspended charged with
00:07:00
misconduct she was then subsequently
00:07:02
found guilty and dismissed she then went
00:07:05
to the ccma the first stage which is
00:07:08
conciliation failed the second stage is
00:07:10
arbitration at the arbitration stage the
00:07:13
commissioner found that the dismissal
00:07:16
was substantively unfair and then the
00:07:19
issue and then she was actually given an
00:07:21
utation award of 12 months um maximum
00:07:24
compensation of her salary so it was a
00:07:26
12- month salary maximum compensation
00:07:29
she was was not happy and then she took
00:07:30
this issue on review to the labor court
00:07:33
for review the labor Court ruled against
00:07:36
miss kesa the issue that they focused on
00:07:39
was the issue of reputational risk the
00:07:41
court said that the commissioner
00:07:43
actually had made a reviewable error the
00:07:45
commissioner at the ccma had ruled that
00:07:47
the post that was made by Miss kesa did
00:07:51
not pertain to her work and that no
00:07:53
reasonable person would associate her
00:07:55
post with the employer and additionally
00:07:58
that there was no harm to edcon which
00:08:00
obviously you you guys you know Edgar
00:08:01
and other companies are under edcon um
00:08:04
that there was no harm that was proved
00:08:06
right so the court then ruled the labor
00:08:09
court that the action being done on
00:08:12
annual leave was not relevant and the
00:08:15
fact that the offending post also did
00:08:17
not mention edcon itself was not
00:08:20
relevant they deemed the post to have
00:08:22
been racist and that it actually did
00:08:25
pose a reputational risk to the employer
00:08:28
and that it was actually reasonable to
00:08:31
foresee that there were going to be
00:08:33
people who would make a link between um
00:08:36
Miss kesa and edcon because the person
00:08:39
who had lodged the original complaint
00:08:42
had some was somebody that had actually
00:08:43
made that link in and off itself so that
00:08:46
was the first case that you need to be
00:08:47
aware of the second case is the case of
00:08:50
horn Jac's horn versus Bessa and others
00:08:55
this case dealt with the conduct of a
00:08:57
senior system specialist geology ologist
00:08:59
who was working at kumbao he was an
00:09:02
middle management employee who was
00:09:04
earning 78,000 per month in 2018 so you
00:09:07
can imagine that's a significant amount
00:09:09
of money in January of 2018 Mr horn was
00:09:14
dismissed from work after there had been
00:09:17
a deliberation on a fight that had
00:09:20
occurred outside of the workplace Mr
00:09:23
horn assaulted a fellow mine worker
00:09:25
whose name no joke is hilarious lagula
00:09:29
on a public road on the 10th of January
00:09:32
this was basically a case of road rage
00:09:35
and historic beef right so what had
00:09:38
happened was another individual Mr mokan
00:09:41
was seen by Mr horn violating traffic
00:09:44
regulations at the Mind gate Mr horn
00:09:46
confronted Mr mokani and as he was
00:09:49
confronting Mr mwani telling him yeah
00:09:52
you people and whatever he was saying
00:09:54
what happened was Mr hilarious Lula
00:09:57
intervened he actually viewed that act
00:09:59
as racist and confronted Mr horn for
00:10:03
bullying then Mr horn shoved Mr Lula on
00:10:06
the ground and this was all witnessed by
00:10:09
a security guard who testified and added
00:10:12
information that in two prior occasions
00:10:15
he had separated these two individuals
00:10:17
Mr horn and Mr Lula this is why I'm
00:10:19
saying it was a case of road rage and
00:10:21
historic beef whatever was happening
00:10:23
between Mr horn and Lula was long
00:10:25
standing the mine dismissed horn and the
00:10:28
ccma upheld that dismissal the labor
00:10:31
Court upheld the ccma decision horn took
00:10:35
the matter to the appeals court he also
00:10:37
lost that matter so what are the general
00:10:41
legal principles that you need to know
00:10:43
to avoid becoming the viral sensation of
00:10:45
the week and the dismissed lover in
00:10:48
January you don't want to be a dismissed
00:10:49
lover in January January is a very hard
00:10:52
month being dismissed in January is just
00:10:55
that's not something that you need in
00:10:56
your life so what do you need to know
00:10:58
number one the general rule is that an
00:11:00
employer has no jurisdiction or
00:11:03
competency to discipline an employee for
00:11:05
conduct that is not workplace related
00:11:08
which occurs after working hours and
00:11:11
away from the workplace all right that's
00:11:14
the general rule and the Authority for
00:11:15
that rule is Niha versus uh the
00:11:19
department of Foreign Affairs and it's n
00:11:21
on behalf of bonds versus uh Department
00:11:24
of Foreign Affairs for law students who
00:11:25
may want to go and read those cases or
00:11:27
are just interested in reading them in
00:11:29
full you know because some of you guys
00:11:30
are low students some of you um are not
00:11:33
but you can still find these cases a
00:11:35
website where you can uh find these
00:11:37
cases easily so that's the general rule
00:11:40
an employee is bound by the terms of
00:11:44
their Employment contract and by the
00:11:46
various policies of the company for
00:11:48
example the internet policy social media
00:11:50
policy the company code of ethics these
00:11:53
policies typically apply to an to on
00:11:56
duty conduct and the use of company
00:11:58
equipment
00:12:00
however and this is important where
00:12:03
misconduct does not fall within the
00:12:06
express terms of a disciplinary code
00:12:09
such misconduct may still be of such a
00:12:12
nature that the employee that that the
00:12:15
employer May nonetheless be entitled to
00:12:18
discipline its employee and you are also
00:12:22
prone to being disciplined even if that
00:12:25
conduct occurred of Duty of site on on
00:12:29
on social media for a variety of reasons
00:12:32
I'm going to discuss those you can be
00:12:34
dismissed and disciplined for destroying
00:12:38
or seriously damaging the relationship
00:12:40
between the employer and employee and
00:12:43
loss of trust is one of the reasons why
00:12:46
this destruction of the relationship can
00:12:48
be considered where money is involved if
00:12:51
you let's say commit fraud with your
00:12:53
boyfriend somewhere else the company
00:12:55
finds out about it they can still
00:12:57
dismiss you uh even if you didn't do
00:12:59
that at work right you can be dismissed
00:13:03
if the employer takes the view that that
00:13:06
particular dismissal is a sensible
00:13:08
operational response to risk management
00:13:11
if you want some authorities some case
00:13:13
law to support what I've just said one
00:13:15
of them is host limited versus chemical
00:13:18
workers industrial Union another is Doo
00:13:21
versus ccma and others and another is
00:13:24
Deb's Consolidated Minds versus ccma and
00:13:28
others
00:13:29
now when it comes to use of language
00:13:33
racist language problematic language
00:13:36
problematic Behavior you can actually be
00:13:38
dismissed whether you do that on duty or
00:13:42
off duty use of derogatory terms whether
00:13:45
off duty or on duty affect the
00:13:47
employment relationship uttering hate
00:13:49
speech off duty is viewed as manifesting
00:13:53
the Deep rooted bigotry and attitudes
00:13:56
that you have whether you're on or off
00:13:58
duty so you can be dismissed for that
00:14:00
right The Authority for this is constant
00:14:03
versus the South African local
00:14:05
government bargaining Council and
00:14:08
others even if your conduct is offsite
00:14:13
you now know from the horn case that if
00:14:16
you are fighting offsite etc etc you can
00:14:19
be disciplined by your company if a
00:14:22
business can establish a connection with
00:14:26
misconduct and its business they can
00:14:29
Institute disciplinary proceedings
00:14:32
regardless of whether that conduct
00:14:34
occurred online offsite right The
00:14:36
Authority for that is Crown chickens
00:14:39
versus scap and others so now you know
00:14:42
now you know better so be aware you can
00:14:46
be taken to a disciplinary hearing by
00:14:48
your employer for off-duty conduct and
00:14:51
for online conduct even if you didn't
00:14:54
mention them directly if it affects the
00:14:57
employer and the employee relationship
00:14:59
you can be taken for that disciplinary
00:15:01
conduct especially if that trust element
00:15:03
is um affected If it creates a
00:15:06
reputational risk for the company you
00:15:08
can be taken to that disciplinary
00:15:10
hearing if your social media profiles
00:15:13
are in any way associated with the
00:15:15
employer you don't have to mention them
00:15:17
in your post but um if you do then it's
00:15:21
far worse in this case if this sabc
00:15:24
employee were to ask for my legal advice
00:15:26
I would actually advise her to pray very
00:15:29
very hard and to apologize with the
00:15:31
highest levels of humility Jacob Zuma
00:15:34
levels of humility no one is more humble
00:15:36
than Jacob Zuma if Jacob Zuma wants to
00:15:38
switch on humility tabs yo it will flow
00:15:41
all the way in hamans scr I'm telling
00:15:43
you there will be no shortages the most
00:15:45
humble person when he wants to be Jacob
00:15:47
Zuma she will have to turn on her Jacob
00:15:49
Zuma humility um clock and and Taps
00:15:53
rather because the prospect of success
00:15:56
in a disciplinary hearing if the sabc
00:15:59
goes that direction are lower than my
00:16:01
prospects of remarrying
00:16:03
Rihanna remarrying I'm just joking we
00:16:06
were never married just rumors just
00:16:08
rumors whenever it was just just just uh
00:16:11
I'm kidding but her prospects are not
00:16:13
very high the ANC and your prospects
00:16:16
will also not be very high so just be
00:16:18
aware of that if ever you are in that
00:16:20
kind of a situation the ANC has also
00:16:22
issued a statement on this on this
00:16:24
particular issue and this is what their
00:16:26
statement says thec condemns unruly and
00:16:29
Unbecoming behavior on a domestic flight
00:16:32
the African National Congress has noted
00:16:35
with disgust and disdain the behavior of
00:16:38
a woman aboard a domestic flight who
00:16:40
acted in an unruly and Unbecoming manner
00:16:43
while invoking the name of thec as if to
00:16:46
justify her actions thec categorically
00:16:50
distances itself from such Behavior
00:16:52
which is contrary to the values and
00:16:54
principles of our movement regardless of
00:16:57
whether this individual is member of
00:16:59
thec we unequivocally state that no
00:17:02
person has the right to behave in such
00:17:05
an unacceptable Manner and certainly not
00:17:07
while misusing the good name of
00:17:10
thec we have initiated an investigation
00:17:14
into her membership status however even
00:17:16
if it is confirmed that she is a member
00:17:19
her conduct is inexcusable and deeply
00:17:22
embarrassing thec will not allow its
00:17:24
name to be dragged through the mud by
00:17:27
individuals who fail to all the dignity
00:17:30
and decorum expected of all South
00:17:32
Africans let alone members of our
00:17:34
organization thec remains committed to
00:17:37
maintaining the highest standards of
00:17:39
discipline and respect and we call on
00:17:41
all South Africans to act responsibly
00:17:44
and in a manner that promotes unity and
00:17:47
respect for one another that's what thec
00:17:50
has said so this lady through her
00:17:53
belligerent Behavior her arrogant
00:17:56
Behavior has caused both the South
00:17:58
African Broadcasting Corporation and the
00:18:01
sabc to issue statements against her
00:18:04
she's if if it was that Award mampara of
00:18:07
the week this is this is the one right
00:18:09
here this is the one this is how you
00:18:11
become um this particular
00:18:14
designation I want to finish off by
00:18:16
talking about the elephant in the
00:18:18
room two things one is that alcohol is
00:18:23
Wrecking havoc in homes and in
00:18:26
communities we see lots of violence and
00:18:28
problematic behavior in December and
00:18:31
it's in part because people are
00:18:33
participating in the drinking culture in
00:18:35
December in unmitigated levels and I
00:18:39
think that this is just yet another
00:18:41
example of that people are using alcohol
00:18:43
to self-medicate to suppress trauma and
00:18:47
it's manifesting in various ways
00:18:50
violence in homes violence in
00:18:52
communities and stupid decisions such as
00:18:55
these decisions that were made by this
00:18:56
individual drinking in the slow Lounge
00:18:58
drink on the plane insisting on more
00:19:01
alcohol she was inebriated to a point
00:19:04
where all of these decisions all of
00:19:06
these things were going to happen you
00:19:09
can't just be drinking all day every day
00:19:12
it affects your physique it affects your
00:19:15
mentality it affects your behavior and
00:19:17
we need to have a conversation about
00:19:19
this you know there's that guy who goes
00:19:21
around taking people to rehab for
00:19:24
taking but I think we need to also have
00:19:26
a conversation about legalized sanitized
00:19:28
and alcohol is that it's a big business
00:19:31
big Advertiser on TV stations but we
00:19:34
also need to be honest about this that's
00:19:35
the first elephant in the room the
00:19:37
second elephant in the room is
00:19:40
this that the children of powerful
00:19:43
politicians or connected people really
00:19:45
do believe that everyone else is an NPC
00:19:48
an unplayable character if you don't
00:19:50
know what an NPC is and that we in their
00:19:52
video game they have an attitude of
00:19:55
arrogance and they think that they're
00:19:56
better than everyone and it manifests s
00:19:59
quite frequently in
00:20:01
society this whole I AMC I'm ANC this
00:20:05
and this it it's not only something that
00:20:07
was drawn by this drunk lady or is an
00:20:09
isolated incident but it's something
00:20:11
that happens quite frequently in
00:20:12
different ways people who want to know
00:20:15
want to show you who they are this whole
00:20:17
do you know who my father is do you know
00:20:18
who my father is it's quite a frequent
00:20:21
thing and we need to be honest about
00:20:22
that and it's something that we need to
00:20:25
call out whenever we see
00:20:27
it we all
00:20:30
equal and in as much as we're not really
00:20:32
because we sometimes see that some
00:20:34
people when they are found with cash
00:20:36
cash contant going to Limpopo they will
00:20:39
be arrested with that money not to
00:20:41
Limpopo to mosm but other people when
00:20:43
they fine with cash
00:20:44
constant they are not arrested we're
00:20:46
told that no the transaction was not
00:20:49
perfected this man does not sell Buffalo
00:20:52
etc etc but that's a story for another
00:20:54
day but in as much as we know that they
00:20:57
are inconsistency and hypocrisies and
00:21:00
we're not
00:21:01
naive who still should be able to call
00:21:04
out people when they try to play that
00:21:06
who's my daddy
00:21:08
card who's my daddy do you know who my
00:21:11
father
00:21:13
is we need to be honest about that it's
00:21:15
something that is actually one of the
00:21:17
things the the precursors that creates
00:21:20
corrupt conduct because those
00:21:22
individuals feel entitled to more than
00:21:24
everybody else anyway what do you guys
00:21:26
think about this whole sabc situ
00:21:28
sitation have you seen this lady's
00:21:30
Behavior are you aware of what she's
00:21:32
been doing have you been asking the
00:21:33
question have I answered your question
00:21:35
behave be
00:21:37
responsible New Year's Eve celebrations
00:21:40
let's go into 2025 together and let's
00:21:43
continue in 2025 together be responsible
00:21:46
till the next one guys peace
