This Is CDR Ep. 92: Banyu Carbon with Dr. Alex Gagnon.

01:04:00
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVDpe81SghU

Summary

TLDRIn Episode 92 of "This is CDR," the online series exploring carbon removal solutions hosted by Open Air, Toby Bryce and Mega Ragavan introduce the Massachusetts Carbon Dioxide Removal Leadership Act as a state-level initiative to advance carbon removal. The highlight is Dr. Alex Gagnon's presentation on Vanu Carbon's photochemical carbon dioxide removal (CDR) process. This innovative technology utilizes unique photo acids that are activated by sunlight to capture CO2 from seawater quickly and efficiently. Dr. Gagnon explains the chemistry behind using these photo acids, advantages over traditional methods, energy savings through integrated solar photovoltaics, and its global scaling potential. The presentation highlights the environmental benefits and techno-economic viability of this approach. Audience questions demonstrate keen interest in the photochemical process, its environmental impact, feasibility, and future escalations. The episode concludes with upcoming segments in the series that will continue to showcase progressive carbon removal innovations.

Takeaways

  • 📰 Open Air presents "This is CDR" to promote carbon removal solutions.
  • 🔬 Dr. Alex Gagnon introduces Vanu Carbon's novel photochemical approach.
  • 🌊 The process extracts CO2 from seawater using sunlight-triggered photo acids.
  • 🔋 Vanu Carbon integrates photovoltaics for energy efficiency in the CDR process.
  • 📈 The process promises lower energy consumption compared to traditional methods.
  • 🧪 Effective for climate change mitigation and ocean health improvement.
  • 📈 Aims for scalable, cost-effective carbon removal solutions by mid-century.
  • 🏛️ Legislation like Massachusetts' CDR Act is crucial for advancing technologies.
  • 💬 Interactive session addresses technology, impact, and community outreach.
  • 🔜 Future "This is CDR" episodes will continue exploring innovative solutions.

Timeline

  • 00:00:00 - 00:05:00

    The episode introduces 'This is CDR', a series presented by Open Air that explores carbon removal solutions. Open Air is a volunteer network aiming for responsible CDR advancement in policies globally. The introduction includes information about Open Air, its missions, and a current project focused on Massachusetts' CDR procurement bill. CDR is defined and emphasized as necessary for climate solutions but not replacing emission reductions.

  • 00:05:00 - 00:10:00

    Dr. Alex Gagnon from Vanu Carbon introduces an innovative photochemical process for CO2 removal from seawater using sunlight instead of electrochemical reactions, presenting a sustainable method with potential for electricity generation. The process uses seawater, capitalizing on its natural CO2 concentration, and can result in carbon-neutral fuel production while offering straightforward MRV due to the technology's direct CO2 removal capabilities.

  • 00:10:00 - 00:15:00

    Dr. Gagnon explains the basics of ocean-based CO2 capture, drawing parallels with direct air capture (DAC). Both methods involve capturing CO2 from interconnected systems—the atmosphere and surface oceans. By removing CO2 from the ocean, Vanu Carbon's method effectively reduces atmospheric CO2 as well. The ocean's fast mixing properties aid in sustaining this CO2 balance, making the process comparable to DAC in atmospheric impact.

  • 00:15:00 - 00:20:00

    The process leverages seawater’s natural CO2 concentration, eliminating the need for large contactor farms like those in DAC. It uses available technology for large-scale seawater processing, presenting an opportunity to repurpose waste streams from facilities such as power plants. The method aims to avoid the challenges faced in air-based systems by focusing on the ocean’s higher CO2 concentration for more efficient capture.

  • 00:20:00 - 00:25:00

    Seawater, containing a higher concentration of dissolved inorganic carbon compared to air, presents a less energy-intensive method for CO2 removal. Unlike challenging air unmixing, temporary seawater acidification using Vanu Carbon’s method can effectively liberate CO2. This method, avoiding electrochemical processes that require extensive energy, innovates by using reversible photoacids, offering a sustainable and low-energy CO2 extraction technique.

  • 00:25:00 - 00:30:00

    Vanu Carbon’s innovation uses reversible photoacids that become highly acidic when exposed to light, temporarily acidifying seawater to release CO2. When light is removed, these photoacids revert to their original form and absorb protons, returning the seawater to a decarbonated, non-acidified state. This process, separating photoacid use from seawater, aims for repeated cycles with minimal degradation, promising a cost-effective and sustainable solution.

  • 00:30:00 - 00:35:00

    The system is shown to be industrially scalable, with demonstrated successful lab tests using natural sunlight and seawater. Vanu Carbon capitalizes on the absorption properties of photoacids mainly absorbing blue light, leaving other spectral parts to generate electricity through integrated photovoltaics. This dual use not only meets the energy demands of the process but also allows for net electricity production, enhancing the method’s sustainability credentials.

  • 00:35:00 - 00:40:00

    The projected energy efficiency of Vanu's process is detailed as significantly better than traditional DAC methods, with potential net energy production when integrating photovoltaics. A comparative analysis highlights the advantages of their system over existing carbon capture technologies in terms of energy use and cost-effectiveness, supporting their aim to achieve carbon removal at lower costs and high carbon efficiency rates.

  • 00:40:00 - 00:45:00

    Vanu Carbon projects significant cost reductions by optimizing their process, aiming for $200 per ton initially, with future reductions to $100 per ton at larger scales. Their low-energy approach, capable of generating net green electricity, is evaluated with a high LCA efficiency, translating captured carbon into retained carbon far more effectively than many existing methods, further validating their innovative approach to carbon capture.

  • 00:45:00 - 00:50:00

    The presentation outlines Vanu Carbon's rapid development and deployment goals, supported by investments and partnerships, with a plan to reach demonstration and market scales. The timeline includes near-term pilot projects aimed at refining technology and expanding capacity, aiming towards the scalability necessary for real climate impact. Their focus on industrial collaboration highlights a strategy to leverage existing infrastructures for faster implementation.

  • 00:50:00 - 00:55:00

    Challenges regarding rapid scalability and technical improvements around photoacid longevity and efficiency are addressed. The company discusses strategies to manage growth, technology development, and potential social issues surrounding deployment. Vanu Carbon emphasizes the ongoing need for innovation in extending the lifespan of materials and ensuring environmentally and socially responsible scaling of their technology.

  • 00:55:00 - 01:04:00

    The session concludes with a discussion on the potential of using various water sources, scalability, and deployment challenges in ocean environments. The use of land and sunlight, partnerships for water sourcing, and ensuring sustainability through thorough ecological impact assessments are explored, along with future commercialization steps in partnership and collaboration with other industries toward achieving significant carbon removal targets.

Show more

Mind Map

Video Q&A

  • What is the main topic of this video?

    The video is about Episode 92 of "This is CDR," focusing on carbon removal solutions, particularly Vanu Carbon's photochemical method for extracting CO2 from seawater.

  • Who is the presenter for this episode?

    Dr. Alex Gagnon, co-founder of Vanu Carbon, presents during this episode.

  • What does Vanu Carbon specialize in?

    Vanu Carbon specializes in a novel photochemical process using photo acids to capture and remove CO2 from seawater.

  • What organization is behind the "This is CDR" series?

    The "This is CDR" series is presented by Open Air, a collaborative network dedicated to advancing carbon removal solutions.

  • What legislation is discussed in the episode?

    The episode discusses the Massachusetts Carbon Dioxide Removal Leadership Act, aimed at advancing carbon removal at the state level.

  • How does Vanu Carbon's technology work?

    Vanu Carbon uses photo acids activated by sunlight to acidify seawater temporarily, allowing CO2 to be extracted and subsequently stored or used.

  • What is the role of photochemical reactors in Vanu Carbon's process?

    Photochemical reactors using sunlight drive a chemical reaction with photo acids to convert carbonates in seawater into CO2 gas for removal.

  • What are the energy requirements of Vanu Carbon's process?

    The process anticipates lower energy consumption than traditional methods, using photovoltaic cells to also generate energy.

  • How does Open Air engage the community?

    Open Air engages by advocating policies, organizing projects, and encouraging community participation for carbon removal.

  • What format does the "This is CDR" event follow?

    The event format includes a presentation, prepared questions, and a moderated Q&A session.

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  • 00:00:00
    [Music]
  • 00:00:18
    welcome everyone pleased to have you
  • 00:00:20
    here with us today for episode 92 of
  • 00:00:22
    this is CDR this is CDR is an online
  • 00:00:25
    event series presented by open air to
  • 00:00:27
    explore the range of carbon removal
  • 00:00:28
    Solutions currently being researched to
  • 00:00:29
    veloped and deployed and to
  • 00:00:31
    contextualize them for policy proposals
  • 00:00:32
    open air seeks to advance uh here in the
  • 00:00:35
    US really at every level of government
  • 00:00:36
    as well as in National and subnational
  • 00:00:38
    jurisdictions globally my name is Toby
  • 00:00:40
    Bryce based in Brooklyn New York and I
  • 00:00:42
    work on policy and Market development
  • 00:00:43
    for open air if you haven't done so
  • 00:00:45
    already please introduce yourself in the
  • 00:00:47
    chat tell us where you're zooming in
  • 00:00:48
    from if You' like your affiliation and
  • 00:00:50
    make sure you direct that message to
  • 00:00:51
    everyone and not just hosts and
  • 00:00:53
    panelists quick background on open air
  • 00:00:56
    we're distributed all volunteer network
  • 00:00:58
    dedicated to the responsible advant ment
  • 00:01:00
    of CDR um we are a global Community
  • 00:01:03
    working together on shared projects that
  • 00:01:05
    we call missions um in the areas of
  • 00:01:07
    policy Innovation Communications and
  • 00:01:09
    activist Market development my co-host
  • 00:01:12
    and colleague Mega ragavan is in running
  • 00:01:14
    the chat and she'll put some links in
  • 00:01:15
    there where you can get some background
  • 00:01:16
    on our organization there's a link that
  • 00:01:18
    you can fill out a form to join our
  • 00:01:20
    group we'd love to have you be a part of
  • 00:01:21
    what we're doing here's a snapshot of
  • 00:01:23
    some active missions we have going again
  • 00:01:25
    in those four different areas um Lots
  • 00:01:27
    going on you can start your own projects
  • 00:01:29
    it's platform open source that um really
  • 00:01:32
    trying to to sort of drive and amplify
  • 00:01:34
    and accelerate climate
  • 00:01:36
    action one of our really important
  • 00:01:38
    projects happening right now that's
  • 00:01:40
    really at a moment of uh kind of in the
  • 00:01:42
    balance is a state level CDR procurement
  • 00:01:44
    bill called the Massachusetts carbon
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    dioxide removal leadership act
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    s296 we are working on it now it has a
  • 00:01:50
    chance to actually get past this spring
  • 00:01:54
    um so it's really kind of a critical
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    time if you live in Massachusetts please
  • 00:01:58
    reach out we'd love to have we'd love to
  • 00:01:59
    get or help as many constituents as
  • 00:02:01
    possible speaking to the representatives
  • 00:02:02
    about this important bill as always we
  • 00:02:06
    would like to Define our terms here's a
  • 00:02:07
    definition of CDR from a great resource
  • 00:02:09
    called the CDR primer um anthropogenic
  • 00:02:12
    purposeful human activity to remove CO2
  • 00:02:14
    from the atmosphere and durably store it
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    in geological terrestrial or ocean
  • 00:02:17
    reservoirs or in Long Live products this
  • 00:02:19
    is essentially the same definition that
  • 00:02:21
    the ipcc uses and we think it's
  • 00:02:22
    important to kind of align on a single
  • 00:02:24
    definition of this term and um this is
  • 00:02:27
    one we like to work with whenever we
  • 00:02:29
    talk about CDR it's really important to
  • 00:02:31
    call out loudly clearly from the
  • 00:02:33
    rooftops and repeatedly as we do on this
  • 00:02:36
    program probably to the boredom of
  • 00:02:37
    regular listeners is that CDR is in no
  • 00:02:39
    way shape or form any sort of substitute
  • 00:02:42
    for rapid decarbonization rapid and deep
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    reductions of grow Global greenhouse gas
  • 00:02:46
    emissions that is the vast majority of
  • 00:02:49
    our climate work 90 plus percent we need
  • 00:02:52
    to be doing it now as quickly as
  • 00:02:53
    possible um we can't let CDR distract
  • 00:02:56
    from that effort that said there's clear
  • 00:02:58
    scientific consensus that CDR is a
  • 00:03:01
    necessary climate solution it will be
  • 00:03:02
    required at multi- gigaton scale
  • 00:03:05
    billions of tons per year approximately
  • 00:03:07
    the size of the current oil and gas
  • 00:03:09
    sector by mid-century we need to start
  • 00:03:11
    building that capability in that
  • 00:03:12
    industry now and that's what the sector
  • 00:03:14
    is really focused on we are not trying
  • 00:03:16
    to take the eye off the ball of
  • 00:03:18
    emissions reductions but um we need to
  • 00:03:20
    start developing CDR Solutions now so we
  • 00:03:22
    can scale to millions and eventually
  • 00:03:24
    billions of tons by mid-century it's the
  • 00:03:26
    work that we're here that's what we're
  • 00:03:27
    here to discuss and I'm going to hand it
  • 00:03:29
    over to my colleague Mega ragavan who is
  • 00:03:30
    going to talk a little bit about the
  • 00:03:32
    show and introduce today's presenter
  • 00:03:35
    Mega hello hi um I'm mea I'm an open air
  • 00:03:39
    member uh based in London and I work on
  • 00:03:41
    policy and Market development as well um
  • 00:03:43
    so just quick housekeeping notes before
  • 00:03:45
    we start we're going to have a short
  • 00:03:46
    presentation to begin with and that'll
  • 00:03:48
    be followed by a few prepared questions
  • 00:03:50
    and then we'll have moderated audience
  • 00:03:51
    Q&A so as we go along uh please just
  • 00:03:53
    type any questions you have into the Q&A
  • 00:03:55
    box in Zoom it is separate from the chat
  • 00:03:57
    box so please try to find the right one
  • 00:03:59
    um just to help help us manage that a
  • 00:04:00
    little bit better um we are also
  • 00:04:03
    recording the event so we'll send the
  • 00:04:04
    recording out to everyone who registered
  • 00:04:06
    we'll also be posting it to opener's
  • 00:04:08
    website and open A's YouTube channel um
  • 00:04:10
    all right this week we're very pleased
  • 00:04:12
    to welcome vanu carbon co-founder do Dr
  • 00:04:14
    Alex Gagnon to present and discuss the
  • 00:04:16
    company's novel photochemical CDR
  • 00:04:18
    process to capture carbon dioxide from
  • 00:04:20
    seawater uh Dr Alex gon has a PHD in
  • 00:04:23
    chemistry from Caltech as well as a BS
  • 00:04:26
    from UC Berkeley he is an expert in
  • 00:04:27
    Marine carbon and was recognized with
  • 00:04:29
    National Science Science Foundation
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    career award he shared his work with
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    President Obama and as an invited P
  • 00:04:35
    panelist for the nationaly he's deeply
  • 00:04:37
    involved in Marine carbon removal
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    research both in his academic and now
  • 00:04:41
    his business roles he is on leave from
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    his faculty duties at the University of
  • 00:04:44
    Washington to Advanced Buu the CDR
  • 00:04:46
    technology developed with co-founder
  • 00:04:48
    Julian sucks when not working on Buu
  • 00:04:50
    Alex loves to run hike and garden with
  • 00:04:52
    his family so Alex whenever you're ready
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    uh feel free to come
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    on
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    excellent thank you for that
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    introduction and I'm I feel really
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    honored to be here and to be joined by a
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    bunch of the colleagues in this field
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    that are really trying to push carbon
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    removal um forward I I would usually
  • 00:05:12
    also be joined um by my co-founder
  • 00:05:14
    Julian saaks um uh but he's recovering
  • 00:05:18
    from um covid and and I'm joining you
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    from uh Seattle which is not so Sunny
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    which is a little bit ironic given that
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    we are developing a uh sunlight based um
  • 00:05:29
    Pro process so um uh I'm going to uh
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    share a few um uh slides here to sort of
  • 00:05:39
    introduce uh our process and then that
  • 00:05:41
    can kick off the Q&A and so um Julian
  • 00:05:44
    and I formed Bon carbon to commercialize
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    what uh we think is a fundamentally new
  • 00:05:50
    energy efficient and simple approach for
  • 00:05:53
    direct carbon dioxide removal from
  • 00:05:54
    seawater and instead of electrochemical
  • 00:05:57
    approaches um uh which has been making
  • 00:05:59
    really rapid advances in in this area we
  • 00:06:02
    use sunlight to drive a chemical
  • 00:06:04
    reaction um that causes CO2 to be
  • 00:06:06
    released from uh sea water so in its
  • 00:06:10
    simplest terms our process is designed
  • 00:06:12
    to use sea water or for that matter
  • 00:06:14
    river water uh as an input because uh as
  • 00:06:17
    many of you know seawat is naturally
  • 00:06:20
    rich in CO2 and naturally concentrates
  • 00:06:22
    CO2 from the atmosphere we then do a
  • 00:06:25
    direct carbon dioxide removal from this
  • 00:06:27
    natural sea water through a light
  • 00:06:28
    triggered chemical reaction and this
  • 00:06:31
    then can produce a easily measured
  • 00:06:33
    stream of carbon dioxide that can be
  • 00:06:35
    geologically sequestered or used as a
  • 00:06:37
    feed stock for industrial processes like
  • 00:06:39
    the production of sustainable fuels um
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    and because it's a direct CO2 removal um
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    approach that means that it's uh easier
  • 00:06:47
    verification than many other approaches
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    and and there's clear additionality
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    although uh as we'll discussed there's
  • 00:06:52
    of course still um important aspects of
  • 00:06:55
    mrb related to airc gas exchange our
  • 00:06:58
    process is light trigger but we can take
  • 00:07:00
    advantage of the energy in sunlight to
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    do different tasks we use the blue light
  • 00:07:05
    uh in sunlight to drive our process but
  • 00:07:07
    we can simultaneously use the other
  • 00:07:09
    parts of the spectrum to generate
  • 00:07:10
    electricity using photovoltaics which
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    means that we're projected to cover all
  • 00:07:14
    our energy needs of our process and even
  • 00:07:17
    produce electricity in net with a
  • 00:07:19
    relatively compact
  • 00:07:21
    footprint so in summary you know our
  • 00:07:24
    process is designed to remove CO2 the
  • 00:07:26
    root cause of climate change in ocean
  • 00:07:28
    acidification from seawater um we
  • 00:07:31
    produce a decarbonated stream of
  • 00:07:32
    seawater that's chemically unchanged
  • 00:07:34
    other than having less CO2 in it and
  • 00:07:36
    this decarbonated water takes up CO2
  • 00:07:38
    from the atmosphere so you know most of
  • 00:07:42
    this really educated crowd on on carbon
  • 00:07:44
    removal is familiar with direct carbon
  • 00:07:46
    removal from seawater I think um carbon
  • 00:07:48
    blue presented in the fall and of course
  • 00:07:50
    captura and others have been um
  • 00:07:52
    presenters before and so like these
  • 00:07:54
    approaches uh we take advantage of the
  • 00:07:56
    fact that the oceans are an incredible
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    resource when it comes to to carbon
  • 00:07:59
    removal so uh for the surface ocean
  • 00:08:03
    carbon removal uh in many places is
  • 00:08:06
    effectively similar to carbon removal
  • 00:08:07
    directly from the atmosphere this is as
  • 00:08:09
    you're probably familiar because of the
  • 00:08:10
    relatively rapid exchange of CO2 between
  • 00:08:13
    the atmosphere and the surface ocean on
  • 00:08:14
    the time scale of several months to to a
  • 00:08:16
    year and so as long as the water exiting
  • 00:08:19
    our process stays in the upper ocean and
  • 00:08:22
    in contact with the atmosphere for
  • 00:08:23
    months to a year on a similar time scale
  • 00:08:26
    um which is the case for much of the
  • 00:08:27
    surface ocean in many of the places that
  • 00:08:28
    we want to site our facilities then this
  • 00:08:31
    exchange will occur um so I think it's
  • 00:08:35
    useful to dig in a little bit more about
  • 00:08:37
    this and so to sort of explore that
  • 00:08:40
    concept a little bit more I want to do a
  • 00:08:41
    thought experiment and imagine not that
  • 00:08:43
    you're doing a direct ocean capture play
  • 00:08:45
    but that you're doing direct air capture
  • 00:08:47
    you've invented an air capture plant to
  • 00:08:48
    remove CO2 from the atmosphere you can
  • 00:08:51
    pull directly out of the top box here
  • 00:08:53
    this will result in a deficit in
  • 00:08:55
    atmospheric CO2 with respect to Ocean
  • 00:08:57
    exchange um and because of uh uh and
  • 00:09:02
    this deficit um with respect to Ocean
  • 00:09:04
    exchange will cause the surface ocean to
  • 00:09:07
    absorb less and in effect burp back up
  • 00:09:09
    CO2 to replace some of the CO2 that's
  • 00:09:11
    removed so direct air capture pulls CO2
  • 00:09:14
    from the atmosphere but it's
  • 00:09:16
    simultaneously pulling CO2 out of the
  • 00:09:18
    ocean too because of airc gas exchange
  • 00:09:20
    similarly if you're doing direct ocean
  • 00:09:22
    capture you're pulling from both these
  • 00:09:23
    boxes too and so both of these are
  • 00:09:27
    pulling from both boxes they're
  • 00:09:28
    effective
  • 00:09:29
    a similar uh have a similar effect and
  • 00:09:32
    for Mo most climate models and many of
  • 00:09:34
    the ways that we think about the carbon
  • 00:09:36
    cycle we often bend the surface ocean
  • 00:09:39
    and the atmosphere together when
  • 00:09:40
    thinking about total carbon balance and
  • 00:09:42
    total um uh impact uh on on climate um
  • 00:09:47
    so because we are able to do direct
  • 00:09:50
    ocean capture and have and as long as we
  • 00:09:52
    pull from parts of the surface ocean
  • 00:09:54
    that are in exchange with the atmosphere
  • 00:09:56
    relatively rapid exchange with the
  • 00:09:57
    atmosphere and and stay in exchange for
  • 00:09:59
    sufficiently long time periods we can
  • 00:10:01
    take advantage of many of the benefits
  • 00:10:02
    of working with seaer as a source of CO2
  • 00:10:05
    while having a similar climate impact as
  • 00:10:08
    direct air capture so um instead of
  • 00:10:11
    having to build large and expensive Farm
  • 00:10:12
    fan uh uh fan Farms to act as gas
  • 00:10:14
    contactors we take advantage of the
  • 00:10:16
    ocean surface as a natural collector and
  • 00:10:18
    concentrator of CO2 and I think the a
  • 00:10:21
    key thing here is that the technology to
  • 00:10:25
    process seawater on a massive scale is
  • 00:10:27
    really welldeveloped
  • 00:10:29
    pumping seawater his old Tech facilities
  • 00:10:32
    like once through cool power plants um
  • 00:10:35
    pump large volumes of seawat at a
  • 00:10:37
    massive scale um and have been doing so
  • 00:10:40
    for decades going on to a century and so
  • 00:10:43
    these are an opportunity partnering with
  • 00:10:46
    facilities like these um are an
  • 00:10:48
    opportunity to turn what's effectively a
  • 00:10:49
    waste stream um uh into a source of
  • 00:10:52
    carbon removal and potentially source of
  • 00:10:53
    Revenue so um some of the advantages of
  • 00:10:58
    working with c is that compared to
  • 00:11:01
    pulling carbon dioxide from the air
  • 00:11:02
    comes from the fact that air in the CO2
  • 00:11:04
    is just a trace gas and it's just hard
  • 00:11:07
    to un miix it's hard to beat that
  • 00:11:09
    entropy you know when you're trying to
  • 00:11:10
    pull carbon dioxide out of the
  • 00:11:11
    atmosphere there's 2,000 other molecules
  • 00:11:12
    or atoms um in the way and and sorbents
  • 00:11:15
    that have The Binding energy to pull the
  • 00:11:17
    CO2 out of the air and unmix it
  • 00:11:19
    typically need a lot of energy to
  • 00:11:20
    release this CO2 that's a major
  • 00:11:22
    contributor of the energy needs and cost
  • 00:11:24
    of direct um air capture in contrast
  • 00:11:28
    dissolved in organ carbon is more
  • 00:11:30
    abundant in Sea than all other dissolved
  • 00:11:32
    gases so you know we fli sort of what's
  • 00:11:35
    the trace component here and through our
  • 00:11:38
    technique um and similar pH swinging
  • 00:11:40
    techniques it's relatively easy to
  • 00:11:42
    liberate this carbon dioxide from seawat
  • 00:11:46
    so um most of the carbon in seawater
  • 00:11:49
    occurs as proteinated and hydrated forms
  • 00:11:51
    that sort of show in here as bicarbonate
  • 00:11:53
    and carbonate ions CO2 is typically a
  • 00:11:56
    minor species and that's why sea stores
  • 00:11:59
    so much carbon dioxide and every direct
  • 00:12:02
    carbon dioxide removal from seawater
  • 00:12:03
    process that I'm aware of relies on some
  • 00:12:05
    sort of temporary pH modification to
  • 00:12:08
    extract this
  • 00:12:09
    CO2 uh in in our process and several
  • 00:12:12
    others temporary acidification can
  • 00:12:15
    convert all the dissolved forms of
  • 00:12:17
    inorganic carbon to
  • 00:12:19
    CO2 at which point this CO2 will
  • 00:12:22
    spontaneously exit the solution and it's
  • 00:12:24
    easy to extract this CO2 from seawater
  • 00:12:26
    at scale using commercially available
  • 00:12:28
    off the shell
  • 00:12:29
    gas contacting systems so in short all
  • 00:12:32
    direct CO2 removal processes are
  • 00:12:34
    basically solving the problem of how to
  • 00:12:36
    do this temporary pH swing or or a
  • 00:12:38
    temporary acidification step with really
  • 00:12:41
    low energy right the energy is an issue
  • 00:12:43
    because that's where a lot of the energy
  • 00:12:44
    comes in for other carbon removal
  • 00:12:46
    processes you know several
  • 00:12:47
    electrochemical processes literally
  • 00:12:49
    split water in an effort to make acids
  • 00:12:51
    they're doing all this Redux chemistry
  • 00:12:52
    when really all they're looking for is
  • 00:12:54
    the acids and bases needed to to do this
  • 00:12:56
    sort of Step so we have a totally
  • 00:12:58
    different approach that's not
  • 00:13:00
    electrochemical and we can this allows
  • 00:13:02
    us to do this pH swing this temporary
  • 00:13:04
    acidification in a really energy
  • 00:13:06
    efficient way that's directly coupled to
  • 00:13:08
    um light so uh that the heart of our
  • 00:13:12
    technology is the use of a class of
  • 00:13:14
    molecues is called a reversible photo
  • 00:13:16
    acids we do this to temporarily acidify
  • 00:13:19
    seawater so this special class of
  • 00:13:21
    molecules when exposed to light change
  • 00:13:25
    their shape so visible light interacts
  • 00:13:27
    with this molecule and it it change its
  • 00:13:29
    shape and when it changes its shape it
  • 00:13:31
    changes its chemical behavior um and
  • 00:13:33
    when it changes its shape it becomes a
  • 00:13:35
    thousand times more acidic and uh for
  • 00:13:39
    those non- chemists out there that when
  • 00:13:41
    you're acidic you release a proton a
  • 00:13:43
    proton which is just a charged um
  • 00:13:45
    hydrogen um atom is what chemists mean
  • 00:13:48
    when we're talking about acidity and so
  • 00:13:50
    when this molecule absorbs a photon of
  • 00:13:53
    of visible light it changes shape and it
  • 00:13:56
    kicks out a proton it becomes really
  • 00:13:57
    acidic um we can then transfer that
  • 00:14:01
    acidity to seawater causing it to
  • 00:14:03
    liberate CO2 and then the really uh
  • 00:14:07
    useful property of this molecule is then
  • 00:14:09
    when it's no longer exposed to light it
  • 00:14:11
    relaxes back to its ground state it
  • 00:14:12
    relaxes back to its previous form um so
  • 00:14:15
    that it can be reused for the next cycle
  • 00:14:17
    and when it relaxes back to its previous
  • 00:14:18
    form it wants to pull back a proton um
  • 00:14:22
    and we can use this as part of a of a
  • 00:14:24
    cycle to drive carbon dioxide removal um
  • 00:14:28
    using power of sunlight and so um this
  • 00:14:32
    excitation of our molecule is nearly
  • 00:14:35
    instantaneous and then the activated
  • 00:14:37
    form lasts for several minutes so long
  • 00:14:39
    enough to do important work um and it's
  • 00:14:42
    currently stable the forms the the
  • 00:14:44
    molecules that we're using are currently
  • 00:14:45
    stable for about 10 days under
  • 00:14:47
    operational conditions um but there's a
  • 00:14:49
    lot of uh uh advances uh that are being
  • 00:14:52
    done to extend that lifetime its
  • 00:14:54
    activity is retained over thousands of
  • 00:14:56
    Cycles it can be used many many many
  • 00:14:58
    many many many times it's a small
  • 00:15:00
    molecule with a simple synthesis out of
  • 00:15:02
    inexpensive starting materials it's very
  • 00:15:04
    similar to D molecules that are produced
  • 00:15:06
    industrially at a at a massive scale um
  • 00:15:09
    there's no metals or rare elements in
  • 00:15:11
    these molecules we keep these photo
  • 00:15:13
    acids completely separate um from
  • 00:15:15
    seawater and not that much photo acid is
  • 00:15:18
    is required um for our process at steady
  • 00:15:23
    state we expect about a half a kilo or
  • 00:15:25
    so of photo ained per ton per year
  • 00:15:27
    capacity um in the in the models the
  • 00:15:30
    process models of our system that that
  • 00:15:31
    that we've developed and even when you
  • 00:15:33
    account for degradation that results in
  • 00:15:35
    a where we're projecting a few kilograms
  • 00:15:38
    of photo acid being required for each
  • 00:15:39
    ton of CO2 um removed so putting all
  • 00:15:44
    these pieces together into a process we
  • 00:15:46
    take take advantage of the vast amount
  • 00:15:48
    of carbon that's trapped in seawat as an
  • 00:15:50
    input and our simple low energy process
  • 00:15:54
    liberates this carbon from seawat by
  • 00:15:55
    temporarily acidifying it that's
  • 00:15:57
    analogous to a lot of pH swing um direct
  • 00:15:59
    carbon dioxide removal processes um that
  • 00:16:01
    converts this dissolved carbon dioxide
  • 00:16:03
    to CO2 gas which is efficiently removed
  • 00:16:05
    through a gas contactor as a stream of
  • 00:16:08
    CO2 that can be um easily verified
  • 00:16:10
    geologically stored and uh or or
  • 00:16:13
    utilized um and so to do this process um
  • 00:16:18
    we uh to to sort of trigger this process
  • 00:16:20
    to cause the temporary pH um swing um
  • 00:16:24
    we're exposing our photo acid to visible
  • 00:16:26
    light it changes confirmation um which
  • 00:16:29
    makes it acidic which releases these
  • 00:16:31
    protons the protons are then transferred
  • 00:16:33
    to seawat um through a process that
  • 00:16:35
    keeps the photo acid separate uh from
  • 00:16:39
    seawater and then when they're no longer
  • 00:16:41
    exposed to light they relax back to
  • 00:16:43
    their ground state for use in uh the
  • 00:16:45
    next cycle and then um when uh uh the
  • 00:16:51
    protons that were trans that were
  • 00:16:54
    temporarily transferred to seawater um
  • 00:16:56
    are no longer necessary they return to
  • 00:16:58
    the photo acid so as the photo acid
  • 00:17:01
    relaxes it has a really high affinity
  • 00:17:03
    for his protons it's changed acidity by
  • 00:17:05
    thousandfold it's now no longer acidic
  • 00:17:07
    and don't mean to anthropomorphize
  • 00:17:09
    molecules but it sort of wants that
  • 00:17:11
    proton back um that allows us to to
  • 00:17:13
    clean up after ourselves pull the proton
  • 00:17:15
    out of solution such that the such that
  • 00:17:18
    we just released decarbonated water to
  • 00:17:20
    sea water that has um the only change
  • 00:17:23
    that's happened in net is that we remove
  • 00:17:25
    carbon dioxide the root cause of of
  • 00:17:27
    climate change from that sea water so
  • 00:17:29
    that it can go on and absorb more carbon
  • 00:17:31
    dioxide from the atmosphere um and um
  • 00:17:35
    the ocean mixes quickly but the
  • 00:17:37
    decarbonated water has the added benefit
  • 00:17:39
    that at least probably in a local area
  • 00:17:41
    um it can help um likely counteract some
  • 00:17:44
    of the impacts of ocean acidification
  • 00:17:46
    we're basically rolling back the clock
  • 00:17:47
    pulling CO2 out of seawater sort of the
  • 00:17:49
    opposite of ocean acidification and in
  • 00:17:54
    the lab and field prototypes um um that
  • 00:17:57
    we've developed and tested in our lab
  • 00:17:58
    we've demonstrated carbon removal using
  • 00:18:00
    natural sunlight um and we've used
  • 00:18:02
    natural seawat to demonstrate that each
  • 00:18:05
    of the key parts of our process work as
  • 00:18:06
    modeled um uh and as expected using um
  • 00:18:11
    all industrially scalable uh approaches
  • 00:18:15
    one of the I think one of the really
  • 00:18:17
    exciting things about working with
  • 00:18:19
    sunlight in these in these um photo
  • 00:18:22
    acids is that um uh we can use sunlight
  • 00:18:26
    to do multiple jobs and because the
  • 00:18:29
    photo acid absorbs mainly blue light um
  • 00:18:33
    much of the visible light energy in
  • 00:18:35
    sunlight can pass through our reaction
  • 00:18:37
    you can sort of think in schematic form
  • 00:18:39
    as our reaction our process requiring
  • 00:18:42
    photo acid to um interact with the
  • 00:18:44
    sunlight as a thin layer of fluid that
  • 00:18:47
    has photo acid in it and that light
  • 00:18:48
    passes through it and the light that's
  • 00:18:50
    required for the photo acid reaction is
  • 00:18:52
    is absorbed but the remainder of the
  • 00:18:54
    spectrum is available and can pass
  • 00:18:56
    through that that thin layer on the
  • 00:18:57
    order of about a centimeter layer um and
  • 00:18:59
    it can be used for generate electricity
  • 00:19:02
    and where there's a really nice
  • 00:19:03
    complementarity in that the part of the
  • 00:19:05
    spectrum that we use for our photo acid
  • 00:19:07
    is also the part of the spectrum that
  • 00:19:09
    really cheap photovoltaic cells are not
  • 00:19:12
    tuned to use really well so there's a
  • 00:19:13
    really good complementarity um um there
  • 00:19:16
    so um the visible light energy that
  • 00:19:19
    passes through our process can be used
  • 00:19:21
    to generate electricity by embedding
  • 00:19:23
    these inexpensive solar cells beneath
  • 00:19:25
    our photo reactors um and we project
  • 00:19:27
    that um this can cover our energy needs
  • 00:19:29
    and even produce energy and net um with
  • 00:19:32
    our uh uh for our process which is a
  • 00:19:35
    major advantage um we think over
  • 00:19:37
    competing a carbon removal processes can
  • 00:19:39
    often be really energy intensive and so
  • 00:19:42
    with this attenuation of light because
  • 00:19:43
    the photo acid we we predict uh uh that
  • 00:19:47
    the photovoltaics would sort of operate
  • 00:19:48
    at sort of 60% of the efficiency that
  • 00:19:50
    they would if there was nothing um
  • 00:19:52
    obstructing them and really importantly
  • 00:19:56
    because we're already collecting all
  • 00:19:57
    this light for our process we're not
  • 00:19:59
    using any new land to do this photov
  • 00:20:01
    voltaics we're sort of taking advantage
  • 00:20:03
    of the infrastructure we already have to
  • 00:20:04
    use to collect light and just being able
  • 00:20:06
    to for very little marginal extra costs
  • 00:20:08
    insert photo voltaics into our system
  • 00:20:11
    but with a large marginal
  • 00:20:12
    benefit so um our processes projected to
  • 00:20:17
    require a lot less energy than competing
  • 00:20:19
    processes and this is really because of
  • 00:20:21
    a number of factors It's relatively
  • 00:20:22
    simple and also because we directly
  • 00:20:24
    couple sunlight to carbon removal um and
  • 00:20:28
    furthermore with photov voltaic
  • 00:20:30
    integration we expect to produce energy
  • 00:20:31
    in net so here is the uh plot of the our
  • 00:20:34
    projected energy required in kilowatt
  • 00:20:36
    hours per ton um uh assuming that we
  • 00:20:39
    continue to hit our milestones and this
  • 00:20:40
    is sort of projected out to about um uh
  • 00:20:43
    24 months of continued development um
  • 00:20:46
    this is in green is including uh
  • 00:20:49
    photovoltaics um but even without photov
  • 00:20:52
    voltaics our gross energy needs shown
  • 00:20:55
    here in red are projected to be better
  • 00:20:57
    than best in-class competitors like the
  • 00:20:59
    best-in-class direct air capture which
  • 00:21:01
    is on the order of about a thousand
  • 00:21:03
    kilowatt hours um per ton and um uh some
  • 00:21:07
    of the electrochemical carbon removal
  • 00:21:09
    from seawater processes um our energy
  • 00:21:13
    needs are even lower if we partner with
  • 00:21:15
    facilities that already pump seaw water
  • 00:21:16
    so those previous numbers that I showed
  • 00:21:18
    you were um uh including the cost of of
  • 00:21:23
    um all doing all our own seawater
  • 00:21:25
    pumping ourselves our sort of projected
  • 00:21:26
    energy needs for that as as well as
  • 00:21:28
    inclusive of our projections for the
  • 00:21:30
    needs for compression of CO2 um uh
  • 00:21:33
    transport uh and transport of that CO2
  • 00:21:37
    um uh so but our energy needs are even
  • 00:21:40
    lower if we partner with facilities that
  • 00:21:42
    already pump seawat um like I've
  • 00:21:44
    mentioned thermoelectric power plants or
  • 00:21:45
    Dell facilities and so those are real um
  • 00:21:49
    those potential Partnerships are real
  • 00:21:51
    beach head markets you know being able
  • 00:21:52
    to use existing seawater pumping
  • 00:21:54
    capacity is real Advantage because that
  • 00:21:56
    we think that it can help us build out
  • 00:21:57
    really quickly we as as we'll sort of
  • 00:21:59
    share here our our energy Productions
  • 00:22:02
    and our our base energy Productions and
  • 00:22:04
    our costs our TAA uh assume that we're
  • 00:22:07
    having to do our own pumping ourselves
  • 00:22:08
    so we don't have to partner with the
  • 00:22:10
    facilities but it's a real great Pathway
  • 00:22:11
    to get to Market um um quickly um and to
  • 00:22:15
    take advantage of the sort of embedded
  • 00:22:17
    uh energy and infrastructure that
  • 00:22:19
    already exists um so um uh we think that
  • 00:22:26
    um uh
  • 00:22:28
    uh because of our low energy advantage
  • 00:22:30
    and because of the relatively simple
  • 00:22:32
    design of our process we think that we
  • 00:22:33
    can reach a levelized cost of $200 for
  • 00:22:36
    so per ton removed if we continue to
  • 00:22:37
    meet our milestones in our in our
  • 00:22:39
    two-year plan and that includes the cost
  • 00:22:41
    for all our own seawater pumping as I
  • 00:22:42
    mentioned compression transport and also
  • 00:22:44
    paying for geologic um
  • 00:22:46
    sequestration um and we think that as we
  • 00:22:49
    sort of uh uh develop our process and
  • 00:22:51
    this is using the standard um uh uh this
  • 00:22:55
    is both based on our process model as
  • 00:22:56
    well as using the standard Lear learning
  • 00:22:58
    curves that um uh Frontier supplies for
  • 00:23:01
    evaluating uh their projects um we think
  • 00:23:04
    that we can reach a cost of less than
  • 00:23:06
    $100 at the one million ton per year um
  • 00:23:10
    scale um with an entitlement cost for an
  • 00:23:13
    nth of kind projected to be well under
  • 00:23:15
    $100 per ton um and then um uh one of
  • 00:23:20
    the real advantages of our process and
  • 00:23:22
    this is because of its low energy needs
  • 00:23:24
    also because of the net production of uh
  • 00:23:26
    of green electricity
  • 00:23:28
    um our um uh LCA uh predicts and and
  • 00:23:33
    this is something you know that the lcas
  • 00:23:34
    are always something that you're they
  • 00:23:35
    continuing to to improve on but our LCA
  • 00:23:38
    that we've tried to be pretty
  • 00:23:39
    comprehensive with tried our best to
  • 00:23:40
    sort of include scope one through three
  • 00:23:42
    emissions um suggests a really high
  • 00:23:44
    efficiency for um carbon uh removal that
  • 00:23:48
    um out of the 90 90 or more percent of
  • 00:23:52
    the carbon uh removed uh of the carbon
  • 00:23:56
    captured would translate into carbon REM
  • 00:23:59
    when considering these emissions and the
  • 00:24:01
    benefit of our net um electricity
  • 00:24:04
    generation so um this is uh this
  • 00:24:08
    potential to have a really big impact to
  • 00:24:11
    have a really low energy process um to
  • 00:24:13
    have a process that is potentially
  • 00:24:15
    affordable and and therefore you know
  • 00:24:16
    one that's one of the key um gates for
  • 00:24:18
    being scalable and and having Market ad
  • 00:24:21
    option is is that that it's affordable
  • 00:24:23
    and that it has this potential to have a
  • 00:24:24
    real um strong efficiency or net impact
  • 00:24:27
    on on climate was some of the reasons
  • 00:24:29
    that made Julian and I step back from
  • 00:24:31
    our faculty positions to really go all
  • 00:24:33
    in on um trying to develop this
  • 00:24:36
    technology because of the the potential
  • 00:24:38
    to not just study and catalog the
  • 00:24:40
    impacts of climate um that we've been
  • 00:24:41
    doing in our academic careers but to
  • 00:24:43
    really work on a technology that was
  • 00:24:44
    fundamentally knew that no one else was
  • 00:24:46
    doing and try to help bring that to
  • 00:24:47
    Market to add to um this um uh
  • 00:24:50
    collection of uh approaches that we're
  • 00:24:52
    all trying to do to try to meet this
  • 00:24:54
    really huge problem of of carbon removal
  • 00:24:56
    so we feel really um honored and um
  • 00:25:00
    lucky to have had developed a lot of
  • 00:25:03
    great partners and had a lot of traction
  • 00:25:05
    in in in this path um this journey of of
  • 00:25:08
    commercializing this this company we
  • 00:25:10
    started it just under um two years ago
  • 00:25:13
    um and um have been really lucky for the
  • 00:25:15
    support uh that we have um gained as
  • 00:25:18
    activate fellows um and um had a first
  • 00:25:22
    precede funding uh in May of uh 2022 and
  • 00:25:26
    that was largely led by by Grantham
  • 00:25:28
    foundation and then um uh we're really
  • 00:25:30
    honored to be recognized by um Frontier
  • 00:25:33
    with a pre- purchase agreement that was
  • 00:25:35
    funded by stripe Shopify and hm group
  • 00:25:38
    for uh uh delivering carbon uh 360 tons
  • 00:25:41
    of carbon removal by
  • 00:25:43
    2026 um and um some of these have been
  • 00:25:46
    announced some of these will be coming
  • 00:25:47
    out shortly but we're also really
  • 00:25:48
    honored to have had um non-diluted
  • 00:25:51
    funding in Grants from National Science
  • 00:25:52
    Foundation and the voucher program from
  • 00:25:54
    um Department of energy and then um
  • 00:25:58
    I can't share too many details about
  • 00:25:59
    this yet but um we're really we have a
  • 00:26:02
    we're able to put together a really
  • 00:26:04
    incredible group of investors and
  • 00:26:06
    recently closed a um seed fundraising
  • 00:26:08
    round just at the end of 2023 and so
  • 00:26:11
    standby for um hearing more
  • 00:26:13
    announcements about that we're really
  • 00:26:15
    excited about the team that we were able
  • 00:26:17
    to put together um to tackle this
  • 00:26:20
    problem and have a lot of energy and a
  • 00:26:21
    lot of expertise that um really
  • 00:26:23
    complimentary expertise that we think
  • 00:26:24
    can help us commercialize and rapidly
  • 00:26:27
    bring this um solution to um to Market
  • 00:26:29
    and bring it um uh to help us do the
  • 00:26:31
    engineering to really um uh deploy it so
  • 00:26:35
    um none of this could be possible and
  • 00:26:37
    our and without our team and our success
  • 00:26:39
    is really entirely driven by the amazing
  • 00:26:41
    team that we've been able to assemble to
  • 00:26:43
    work on this problem and that's
  • 00:26:44
    especially true of my co-founder um um
  • 00:26:47
    Julian saaks um we're both uh faculty
  • 00:26:51
    and chemical geography at the University
  • 00:26:52
    of Washington but stepped back from that
  • 00:26:55
    um position to be Allin on on developing
  • 00:26:57
    this um and commercializing um this
  • 00:26:59
    project and lucky that we've been able
  • 00:27:01
    to attract some really amazing talent um
  • 00:27:03
    uh as far as organic chemists and um
  • 00:27:06
    oceanographers and chemists to help us
  • 00:27:08
    develop this process so key for a bunch
  • 00:27:10
    of the lab work that um we've done to
  • 00:27:13
    date um uh our senior organic chemist we
  • 00:27:17
    have uh and and our senior chemical
  • 00:27:20
    oceanographer and and research
  • 00:27:21
    scientists uh on our team we have great
  • 00:27:23
    complimentary expertise but as we're
  • 00:27:25
    developing this and bringing it the
  • 00:27:27
    field we'll have a pilot demonstration
  • 00:27:30
    um at the ton perear scale uh here in
  • 00:27:33
    2026 it's we're really focused on
  • 00:27:35
    building out our engineering team and so
  • 00:27:37
    we have open positions for director of
  • 00:27:39
    engineering and mechanical engineering
  • 00:27:40
    we'll soon post additional engineering
  • 00:27:42
    positions and field tech position as
  • 00:27:44
    well as a business development um
  • 00:27:46
    position uh on our website so if you're
  • 00:27:48
    excited by the challenge of uh working
  • 00:27:51
    on on carbon removal um and hopefully
  • 00:27:53
    I've inspired you about the potential
  • 00:27:55
    promise of of our um of our process um
  • 00:27:58
    please um reach out to us and uh and
  • 00:28:01
    apply to these these positions we' we'd
  • 00:28:03
    love to um we'd really love to talk with
  • 00:28:05
    you um all of this uh work really uh is
  • 00:28:08
    driven by passionate and and smart
  • 00:28:11
    people and it's one of the great joys of
  • 00:28:13
    working in this space is not just having
  • 00:28:15
    a the potential to have a real impact
  • 00:28:17
    for the planet um but also to be able to
  • 00:28:19
    work with really creative and driven
  • 00:28:20
    people so um I'll pause there and and
  • 00:28:24
    really looking forward to the the
  • 00:28:26
    questions from the from the
  • 00:28:30
    group that was great Alex thank you so
  • 00:28:32
    much um super exciting I think the
  • 00:28:34
    sector at large is super excited about
  • 00:28:36
    what you're working on and
  • 00:28:37
    congratulations on all your early
  • 00:28:39
    successes um one quick question point of
  • 00:28:42
    clarification um I I hadn't realized
  • 00:28:44
    this but your your your process does not
  • 00:28:47
    require salinity so you don't need sea
  • 00:28:50
    water you can work with any water source
  • 00:28:51
    is that correct that's that's right
  • 00:28:53
    there's um you know we we focus on
  • 00:28:56
    natural Waters because many natural
  • 00:28:58
    Waters seawat and many rivers but not
  • 00:29:00
    all rivers or lakes have relatively High
  • 00:29:03
    um dissolv in organic carbon there's
  • 00:29:05
    some rivers that have even more
  • 00:29:06
    dissolved in organic carbon than um sea
  • 00:29:09
    water on a perv volume basis Rivers like
  • 00:29:11
    the Mississippi the Columbia danu um uh
  • 00:29:14
    can be a good source of of carbon
  • 00:29:16
    renewal there's aspects of the process
  • 00:29:18
    that change with salinity but but
  • 00:29:20
    there's no fundamental reason that um
  • 00:29:22
    our process can't work in in those
  • 00:29:25
    settings um excellent thank you
  • 00:29:28
    uh you the you know your idea is one of
  • 00:29:30
    those sort of Science Fiction sounding
  • 00:29:32
    ideas capturing carbon with light um can
  • 00:29:33
    you talk a little bit about your
  • 00:29:34
    intellectual Journey like how you
  • 00:29:36
    started researching photo acids and then
  • 00:29:38
    when it occurred to you that wow I can
  • 00:29:40
    use this for carbon removal and then
  • 00:29:41
    maybe a little bit about how you and
  • 00:29:42
    Julian got together to form the company
  • 00:29:45
    yeah yeah so I'll start from the from
  • 00:29:46
    the end there because I think that's
  • 00:29:47
    really the journey so Julian and I you
  • 00:29:49
    know faculty that work together and
  • 00:29:51
    we've been collaborators for almost a
  • 00:29:52
    decade since 2014 and um we've worked
  • 00:29:55
    primarily together on the impacts of
  • 00:29:57
    ocean acidification on marine life and
  • 00:29:59
    and coral reefs and so we had a study
  • 00:30:01
    site in the in the South Pacific um that
  • 00:30:04
    we've been working closely on uh
  • 00:30:06
    together with and worked with a bunch of
  • 00:30:07
    students uh and scientists out there and
  • 00:30:09
    as part of that project we were
  • 00:30:11
    developing a sort of started to shift
  • 00:30:14
    into more engineering we were trying to
  • 00:30:15
    test the impacts of ocean acidification
  • 00:30:18
    the conditions that sort of near end of
  • 00:30:20
    century on a patch of reef and because
  • 00:30:22
    of this we were having to transfer lots
  • 00:30:23
    of carbon dioxide into and out of um
  • 00:30:27
    seawater and as we were sort of there
  • 00:30:30
    working working in the field um you know
  • 00:30:32
    South Pacific sunsets you know lead to
  • 00:30:35
    really good sort of conversations we
  • 00:30:37
    sort of started framing this question of
  • 00:30:39
    okay what if we were try to scale this
  • 00:30:40
    up even larger you know we've been sort
  • 00:30:42
    of trying to understand what it would
  • 00:30:44
    take to move carbon in and out of
  • 00:30:45
    seawater a massive scale what if we
  • 00:30:46
    could sort of turn this on its head and
  • 00:30:48
    try to use this as a carbon removal
  • 00:30:50
    process what would be required and we
  • 00:30:52
    really focused on the fact that that
  • 00:30:53
    temporary acidification step is high
  • 00:30:55
    energy and it's awkward what would would
  • 00:30:57
    sort of the class what what would be a
  • 00:30:59
    new solution to try to solve and rewrite
  • 00:31:01
    the energetics of that process and so
  • 00:31:03
    drawing on the organic chemistry
  • 00:31:05
    experience of Julian and and the Aquatic
  • 00:31:07
    chemistry experience that I have we sort
  • 00:31:09
    of were really searching for we could we
  • 00:31:11
    had sort of defined what we need it and
  • 00:31:14
    we got lucky that there had been recent
  • 00:31:16
    advances in photo acids so photo acids
  • 00:31:18
    have been around for 50 plus years a
  • 00:31:21
    molecules that when you shine light on
  • 00:31:22
    them they become acidic but prior to
  • 00:31:24
    about 10 years ago um they recombined or
  • 00:31:28
    so that they made acidity but then they
  • 00:31:29
    recombined so quickly that they didn't
  • 00:31:32
    have there was no time for that proton
  • 00:31:34
    to do work and about a decade ago there
  • 00:31:36
    were some major advances in photo acids
  • 00:31:38
    that allowed them to stick for to stick
  • 00:31:40
    around in their acidic State long enough
  • 00:31:42
    for them to do work and these had been
  • 00:31:44
    applied mostly in the biomedical and
  • 00:31:46
    materials um fields and we recognized oh
  • 00:31:49
    man this is a perfect fit for our
  • 00:31:51
    problem and then that sort of really one
  • 00:31:53
    thing led to the next and we're really
  • 00:31:55
    lucky to get a lot of support from our
  • 00:31:57
    University who saw commercialization as
  • 00:31:59
    one way to have uh as just an extension
  • 00:32:01
    of our mission to have a positive impact
  • 00:32:03
    on the planet really supported us to
  • 00:32:05
    take this um commercialization journey
  • 00:32:07
    and activate really helped us sort of
  • 00:32:09
    try to challenge us to grow as quickly
  • 00:32:11
    as a company grows entrepreneurs as
  • 00:32:13
    quickly as our company has grow got it
  • 00:32:15
    that's great thank you um couple
  • 00:32:17
    questions about the the photo acid feed
  • 00:32:19
    stock um so you said that a few
  • 00:32:22
    kilograms per ton of CO2 capture um so I
  • 00:32:26
    might think of that as Maybe a
  • 00:32:27
    05% factor so like on a million tons you
  • 00:32:31
    might have is that cumulative over the
  • 00:32:33
    course of a year so if I if you if you
  • 00:32:35
    do a million tons of capture over the
  • 00:32:36
    course of a year from a facility you
  • 00:32:38
    will have 5,000 tons of uh residue photo
  • 00:32:44
    acid yeah so uh there's a really good
  • 00:32:47
    question and let me clarify a few
  • 00:32:48
    aspects of that you're you're you're
  • 00:32:50
    pretty much spot on but it it would help
  • 00:32:51
    to dig into the details for you and for
  • 00:32:54
    the audience here so um we project with
  • 00:32:56
    our current sort process model that we
  • 00:32:58
    need about at steady state per ton per
  • 00:33:01
    year capacity of a facility we need at
  • 00:33:04
    steady state about 400 400 grams call
  • 00:33:06
    that a half a kilogram um of photo acid
  • 00:33:09
    so that's photo acid that's cycling
  • 00:33:10
    around in the system kept separate from
  • 00:33:12
    seawater being exposed to sunlight being
  • 00:33:14
    reused over and over and over again but
  • 00:33:17
    photo acids degrade through a known
  • 00:33:19
    pathway where they hydrolize they split
  • 00:33:21
    into into two pieces and so if you work
  • 00:33:25
    with the the amount of photo acid that
  • 00:33:28
    you need for your process and then
  • 00:33:29
    account for this degradation process
  • 00:33:32
    that means per ton of CO2 removed we
  • 00:33:35
    project that you would need about two
  • 00:33:36
    about two kilograms of photo acid would
  • 00:33:39
    be
  • 00:33:40
    consumed and and that's sort of the the
  • 00:33:42
    the sort of factor that that that you're
  • 00:33:44
    talking about however um that we got
  • 00:33:47
    really lucky in that the degradation
  • 00:33:49
    pathway the way that the photo acid
  • 00:33:51
    comes apart is yields two pieces two two
  • 00:33:56
    molecules and those are the two same
  • 00:33:58
    molecules that are used during the last
  • 00:33:59
    step of synthesis and we've shown in lab
  • 00:34:02
    that you can recover the photo acid from
  • 00:34:05
    uh the process stream and recombine them
  • 00:34:08
    to remake the molecule and so that's not
  • 00:34:10
    directly part of our tea and we still
  • 00:34:13
    have to uh evaluate whether you know the
  • 00:34:16
    cost benefit of recycling the photo acid
  • 00:34:19
    outweighs synthesis of new um photo acid
  • 00:34:22
    so there's important work to be done
  • 00:34:23
    there but that there's a pathway to
  • 00:34:25
    recycle reuse that photo acid um as well
  • 00:34:28
    so we got really luck there some
  • 00:34:29
    degradation some processes when they
  • 00:34:31
    degrade they turn into junk in our case
  • 00:34:33
    it's it's a really product that can be
  • 00:34:35
    recycled so there's so it's possible
  • 00:34:37
    that Innovation and science could lead
  • 00:34:38
    us to a point where you have a fully
  • 00:34:40
    looping process yeah I mean it is um the
  • 00:34:43
    the photo acid is not consumed the only
  • 00:34:44
    reason that it's consumed is because of
  • 00:34:46
    degradation just like any process you
  • 00:34:48
    know electrodes and an electrochemical
  • 00:34:49
    system degrade over time we just are
  • 00:34:51
    trying to be as comprehensive in our
  • 00:34:53
    view of thinking about inputs and
  • 00:34:55
    outputs and so this degradation pathway
  • 00:34:57
    is really important and and without that
  • 00:34:59
    Innovation am I in the right order of
  • 00:35:01
    magnitude that you might have 5,000 tons
  • 00:35:05
    of waste residue photo acid per million
  • 00:35:08
    tons of capture like is that right might
  • 00:35:11
    yeah that that that's uh well it's it's
  • 00:35:15
    about two kilograms per ton um and so it
  • 00:35:19
    feels like if it's a million was it is
  • 00:35:22
    it
  • 00:35:23
    2,000 per million there yeah yeah anyway
  • 00:35:26
    sorry yes I your mental math you're
  • 00:35:29
    you're further along in your day I was
  • 00:35:30
    being a little conservative of 05% not
  • 00:35:32
    02 okay great you might have a small
  • 00:35:35
    amount and is this a toxic material like
  • 00:35:37
    what would you if you had to get rid of
  • 00:35:38
    it what would what would you it's really
  • 00:35:40
    common to to the the form of this is
  • 00:35:43
    really common to um textile the the
  • 00:35:46
    structure is really similar to um
  • 00:35:48
    textile dieses and one of the
  • 00:35:50
    degradation products of the molecule is
  • 00:35:52
    actually a FDA approved flavorant um um
  • 00:35:55
    and so we're you know as we're
  • 00:35:57
    developing we are developing new and
  • 00:35:59
    advanced photo acids um to improve their
  • 00:36:02
    performance and so you know important
  • 00:36:04
    work needs to be done to to be really
  • 00:36:06
    sure about the the environmental impact
  • 00:36:09
    if there were ever a leak of of these
  • 00:36:11
    photo acids and to really assess um uh
  • 00:36:14
    the toxicology of these things so so
  • 00:36:16
    that is important work that that needs
  • 00:36:18
    to continue to be done um but in our LCA
  • 00:36:21
    and when we think about our tea um the
  • 00:36:24
    burning with heat recovery of any waste
  • 00:36:26
    because the waste stream is is really
  • 00:36:27
    small um compared to the carbon removal
  • 00:36:31
    um that's accounted for as an emissions
  • 00:36:33
    and cost and in our TAA yeah and and the
  • 00:36:37
    photo acid is kept separate from the
  • 00:36:40
    seawater or water by membranes is that
  • 00:36:43
    correct the photo acid is is kept
  • 00:36:45
    separate from sea water through an ion
  • 00:36:46
    exchange process when we first developed
  • 00:36:48
    this process our first prototype on the
  • 00:36:50
    bench toop we pulled off the shelf
  • 00:36:52
    components just to you know make sure
  • 00:36:54
    that the process worked as expected and
  • 00:36:56
    that all the pieces sort of work
  • 00:36:58
    together and for that we used membranes
  • 00:37:00
    for this process but we quickly realized
  • 00:37:02
    you know that was sort of a proof of
  • 00:37:03
    concept um on Prototype uh about a year
  • 00:37:07
    or so ago and um we quickly realized
  • 00:37:10
    that membranes are expensive there's
  • 00:37:12
    biofouling it's just uh not as
  • 00:37:15
    commercializable not as scalable
  • 00:37:17
    approach and so one of the things that
  • 00:37:18
    our team worked really hard on and that
  • 00:37:20
    we were successful in doing was
  • 00:37:21
    developing a a version of the process
  • 00:37:24
    where we don't use membranes for for
  • 00:37:27
    that ion exchange process we rely on
  • 00:37:29
    another um industrially scalable really
  • 00:37:31
    widely used ion exchange process to
  • 00:37:34
    separate um the the ions from from
  • 00:37:37
    seawater and sorry I can't dig a little
  • 00:37:39
    too much that's IP that's your IP is
  • 00:37:42
    this non-membrane separation mechanism
  • 00:37:46
    and the hydrogen ions or protons I'm not
  • 00:37:48
    sure if my terminology is correct can
  • 00:37:50
    cross this separation layer and then
  • 00:37:52
    return that's right that's right kind of
  • 00:37:55
    one another neat aspect of this is we're
  • 00:37:56
    able to sort of actually uh sort of um
  • 00:38:00
    separate we can separate in time and
  • 00:38:03
    space the um the accumulation of those
  • 00:38:07
    protons from um from when we have to use
  • 00:38:11
    from when we're acidifying seawater so
  • 00:38:13
    this means that we can charge up a bunch
  • 00:38:15
    of protons during daylight hours and
  • 00:38:17
    then discharge them
  • 00:38:18
    continuously um in uh seawater 247 that
  • 00:38:22
    helps our capex in sort of operational
  • 00:38:25
    aspects means we're a little bit more
  • 00:38:26
    buffered from sunlight you know a cloud
  • 00:38:28
    passing in front of the Sun and things
  • 00:38:30
    like that got it um there are people who
  • 00:38:33
    are smarter than I am who asked some
  • 00:38:34
    questions about this in the in the Q&A
  • 00:38:36
    so I'm going to leave the rest to them
  • 00:38:38
    and move on to a new topic um and just a
  • 00:38:40
    reminder we are going to do audience
  • 00:38:41
    questions we are not going to be able to
  • 00:38:42
    answer audience questions that are in
  • 00:38:43
    the chat because it gets too confusing
  • 00:38:45
    so if you have questions please put them
  • 00:38:46
    in the Q&A box and if you put them in
  • 00:38:48
    the chat can you just copy them to the
  • 00:38:49
    Q&A box and we'll get to as many as
  • 00:38:52
    possible um can we talk about so the the
  • 00:38:56
    form factor of your photo reactor I
  • 00:38:59
    believe you said is one meter by 1.7
  • 00:39:02
    meters so 1.7 square meters I think um
  • 00:39:06
    how much capture does that module do
  • 00:39:09
    like I want to what I want to get to is
  • 00:39:11
    like how much land you required how much
  • 00:39:14
    land is a Megaton totally you this you
  • 00:39:17
    in a couple years are your future
  • 00:39:19
    Megaton scale deployment like how much
  • 00:39:21
    land will that use yeah exactly so um uh
  • 00:39:25
    we uh that we need per ton per year
  • 00:39:28
    capacity about four four and a half
  • 00:39:30
    square square meters of area and our
  • 00:39:32
    form factors because most of the area of
  • 00:39:34
    our processed is collecting sunlight it
  • 00:39:36
    looks a lot like a solar collection
  • 00:39:39
    facility that um uh so that sort of
  • 00:39:42
    gives you an idea of of sort of what
  • 00:39:44
    we're looking at here and so for a
  • 00:39:45
    thousand ton Pere facility um that uh we
  • 00:39:50
    expect to need about one American
  • 00:39:52
    football field um of area for our
  • 00:39:54
    process that's about 1.3 Acres right and
  • 00:39:56
    so if that's a thousand then a million
  • 00:39:58
    would be you know scale scale that by 10
  • 00:40:01
    to the 3 so okay help us out here so so
  • 00:40:04
    so it's it's it's so so a th000 tons is
  • 00:40:09
    an acre 400ish square meters um wait
  • 00:40:13
    4,000 square yeah 4,000 square meters
  • 00:40:15
    4,000 square meters y that's right okay
  • 00:40:17
    so per hectare okay so what's a million
  • 00:40:19
    tons that means a million times that is
  • 00:40:22
    or a thousand a thousand times that
  • 00:40:24
    because that was a thousand tons per so
  • 00:40:26
    tons is an acre so a million tons is a
  • 00:40:28
    million acres is a thousand acres yeah
  • 00:40:30
    sorry Thousand Acres duh yeah yeah yeah
  • 00:40:32
    and that and hectares so that's 2 point
  • 00:40:34
    okay so all right a thousand acres per
  • 00:40:39
    Megaton and I think what what is
  • 00:40:42
    important when sort of comparing to
  • 00:40:43
    other processes is we have integrated
  • 00:40:46
    into our process the um uh energy
  • 00:40:49
    production of our processing so if you
  • 00:40:52
    were to compare apples to apples I think
  • 00:40:53
    it's useful to compare our process to
  • 00:40:55
    the footprint of say a DAC process
  • 00:40:58
    that's also has captive solar so like
  • 00:41:00
    what would the total area be with
  • 00:41:02
    captive solar and so if you use sort of
  • 00:41:03
    the area projections for a DAC facility
  • 00:41:06
    from the national Academy's 2019 study
  • 00:41:08
    and include the the um uh captive solar
  • 00:41:11
    that would required to process to to um
  • 00:41:14
    provide the energy facility about a
  • 00:41:16
    tenth of the area requirements as as
  • 00:41:19
    daak now there's obviously more
  • 00:41:21
    flexibility and sort of the different
  • 00:41:23
    ways that energy could be pulled off the
  • 00:41:25
    grid to support stack um um and so that
  • 00:41:28
    area footprint expands or contracts and
  • 00:41:31
    can go depending upon what your energy
  • 00:41:33
    source is but I think in a really
  • 00:41:34
    important aspect of our process is that
  • 00:41:36
    um uh as designed uh it doesn't pull
  • 00:41:39
    energy Off the Grid it doesn't complete
  • 00:41:41
    with Greening the grid um it produces
  • 00:41:44
    green energy in net right and so so with
  • 00:41:47
    with this footprint you it's inclusive
  • 00:41:49
    of your energy requirements plus you're
  • 00:41:51
    generating 250 kilowatt hours with
  • 00:41:54
    without if you have to handle your own
  • 00:41:56
    water handling for ton that's right
  • 00:41:58
    that's right that's what we're
  • 00:41:59
    projecting y
  • 00:42:01
    um yeah this is one of those that like
  • 00:42:03
    it sounds amazing sounds almost too good
  • 00:42:04
    to be true like what are the things um
  • 00:42:06
    we're going to move on to audience
  • 00:42:07
    questions in a second but what are what
  • 00:42:08
    are the big risks in your mind like
  • 00:42:11
    what's and what so you've presented a
  • 00:42:13
    thesis for how this is going to work and
  • 00:42:14
    how this is going to be amazing and
  • 00:42:15
    deliver gigaton scale CDR in the next
  • 00:42:18
    whatever 10 or 15 years um what are some
  • 00:42:20
    of the things that can go wrong what
  • 00:42:22
    keeps you up at night like what do you
  • 00:42:23
    think are the biggest risks to you and
  • 00:42:25
    the you and Jo and the team to scaling
  • 00:42:27
    this yeah I think some of the things
  • 00:42:29
    that keep me up at night are probably
  • 00:42:30
    things that keep a lot of us up at night
  • 00:42:32
    it's just the the scale of the problem
  • 00:42:33
    that we're talking about is massive
  • 00:42:35
    right and the speed with which we need
  • 00:42:37
    to um reach these goals is is really
  • 00:42:41
    fast right where you know to to have a
  • 00:42:43
    climate impact um and so thinking about
  • 00:42:46
    how do we build a team out quickly
  • 00:42:49
    enough and and so that we can really
  • 00:42:51
    deploy this on time scales that we need
  • 00:42:53
    for climate is is one of the things that
  • 00:42:55
    I think J and I spend the most time sort
  • 00:42:57
    of thinking about how are we how are we
  • 00:42:59
    doing this this quickly enough how are
  • 00:43:00
    we building this and you just sometimes
  • 00:43:03
    there's moments where you take a step
  • 00:43:05
    back and you're thinking man this is a
  • 00:43:06
    massive whether your direct air capture
  • 00:43:08
    or direct ocean capture these are
  • 00:43:10
    massive amounts of fluids that we're
  • 00:43:12
    talking about whether it's air water
  • 00:43:13
    that we're talking about right it's it's
  • 00:43:15
    just a lot of water and it helps
  • 00:43:17
    reassure me when I have those moments
  • 00:43:19
    that I wake up in the middle night and
  • 00:43:20
    I'm like oh my gosh what are we trying
  • 00:43:22
    to do here um it helps me to compare
  • 00:43:24
    that to the amounts of of water that are
  • 00:43:26
    already being processed right so like a
  • 00:43:28
    a we project that for a million ton
  • 00:43:31
    facility um uh that that takes about the
  • 00:43:34
    seawater handling capacity of two of the
  • 00:43:37
    largest existing seawater processing
  • 00:43:40
    facilities like the jabale facility in
  • 00:43:42
    um Saudi Arabia um uh processes enough
  • 00:43:45
    seawater daily to have a capacity of
  • 00:43:47
    500,000 tons per of CO2 using our
  • 00:43:51
    process and that's that's conservatively
  • 00:43:52
    assuming we're only removing 50% of thec
  • 00:43:55
    not 100% from DIC removal and Beyond
  • 00:43:58
    this sort of massive scale challenge
  • 00:44:00
    that I think everyone in carbon removal
  • 00:44:01
    faces are are there any do you feel like
  • 00:44:04
    there any technology risks
  • 00:44:05
    technoeconomic risks social acceptance
  • 00:44:07
    risk that you're particularly concerned
  • 00:44:09
    about or do you feel like those are all
  • 00:44:11
    managed manageable yeah no I mean I
  • 00:44:13
    don't think that what we're trying to do
  • 00:44:15
    is tough we're developing a quick we're
  • 00:44:17
    developing a new technology and trying
  • 00:44:18
    to deploy it quickly it's sort of like
  • 00:44:20
    the moonshot or the Manhattan Project at
  • 00:44:22
    the same time as doing the you know the
  • 00:44:23
    US Highway um system All In like a
  • 00:44:26
    really short period of time so there's a
  • 00:44:27
    ton of technical issues that we think a
  • 00:44:29
    lot about we're trying to Marshall our
  • 00:44:30
    team to work on those you know photo
  • 00:44:32
    acid performance improvements really
  • 00:44:33
    make a difference extending the the
  • 00:44:36
    lifetime of the of the photo acid um
  • 00:44:39
    there's a bunch of commercially used
  • 00:44:41
    molecules that are really similar that
  • 00:44:43
    have lifetimes of two years we think
  • 00:44:44
    there's a path there um and um there's
  • 00:44:47
    been some recent great work that's sort
  • 00:44:48
    of in our lab and and elsewhere that has
  • 00:44:50
    shown that we can extend a life that
  • 00:44:52
    really helps our tea so I think there's
  • 00:44:54
    a bunch of things that we are really
  • 00:44:55
    focusing that we know we need to achieve
  • 00:44:57
    to get from here to there but we think
  • 00:44:59
    that we have paths for for most of those
  • 00:45:02
    you bring up Social acceptance I think
  • 00:45:04
    that's obviously really really really
  • 00:45:06
    important you know I I talked about the
  • 00:45:08
    the buildout of the interstate highway
  • 00:45:10
    system you know when that was done it
  • 00:45:11
    separated communities there's been after
  • 00:45:13
    effects of that that um you know we're
  • 00:45:15
    still feeling and as we develop this
  • 00:45:17
    completely new industry we have to
  • 00:45:19
    deploy in a way where the communities
  • 00:45:21
    that are most impacted by climate change
  • 00:45:22
    are receiving the benefits of this of
  • 00:45:25
    this new industry and that's that's a
  • 00:45:27
    that's an added really important
  • 00:45:28
    challenge that we take really seriously
  • 00:45:29
    know the reason Julian and I stepped
  • 00:45:31
    away from our academic roles was to have
  • 00:45:33
    a positive impact on the planet that
  • 00:45:34
    means positive impact on the planet
  • 00:45:36
    positive impact on ecosystems pos
  • 00:45:37
    positive impact on um on on people um
  • 00:45:41
    right and so um I think that that is a
  • 00:45:43
    whole question itself we can we can
  • 00:45:45
    delve deeper this I want to provide some
  • 00:45:48
    time for um for for question questions
  • 00:45:51
    but we think that we have some aspects
  • 00:45:52
    of our process the fact that we don't
  • 00:45:53
    pull from the grid that we're a good
  • 00:45:56
    member of the community we can put
  • 00:45:57
    energy back in the that allows us to
  • 00:45:59
    site in maybe places that are not as
  • 00:46:01
    close to Services as others which means
  • 00:46:03
    that we could bring jobs and
  • 00:46:05
    infrastructure to communities that are
  • 00:46:06
    usually disserved uh um otherwise
  • 00:46:09
    underserved um we think there's a bunch
  • 00:46:11
    of advantages to our process that might
  • 00:46:12
    help with that but it's a big
  • 00:46:14
    challenge amen yes um well great answer
  • 00:46:17
    thank you just one quick thing before we
  • 00:46:19
    move to audience questions actually too
  • 00:46:20
    um did you say just to like your sort of
  • 00:46:22
    like optimistic scaling
  • 00:46:26
    um schedule did you say a ton of year in
  • 00:46:30
    2026 yeah um we um hope to have a pilot
  • 00:46:34
    in 2024 that's at the one ton per year
  • 00:46:38
    capacity um and then we have a pre-
  • 00:46:41
    purchase agreement with Frontier to
  • 00:46:42
    deliver 360 tons by end of
  • 00:46:45
    2026 um and um you know we have really
  • 00:46:49
    ambitious Milestones to be building out
  • 00:46:52
    um capacity dramatically and what are
  • 00:46:54
    the what are the sort of op
  • 00:46:56
    optimistic Milestone years for 10,000
  • 00:47:00
    tons and a million tons um yeah yeah I
  • 00:47:03
    mean I I think that we hope to um get to
  • 00:47:07
    the 10,000 tons uh in the late 2020s
  • 00:47:13
    2030 I think all of us are trying to
  • 00:47:15
    scale to all of us are trying to scale
  • 00:47:17
    to a million tons to hundreds of million
  • 00:47:18
    tons as fast as we can got it excellent
  • 00:47:21
    um and one other with we have so many
  • 00:47:24
    audience questions do you have do you
  • 00:47:25
    have a hard stop at the top of the hour
  • 00:47:26
    or could you stay an extra five minutes
  • 00:47:28
    to do a few more questions be happy I'd
  • 00:47:29
    be happy we'll do that then um great
  • 00:47:32
    well thank you so much and mega do you
  • 00:47:33
    want to up
  • 00:47:35
    on hey yes we do have tons of questions
  • 00:47:38
    um I'm just going to start with one we
  • 00:47:39
    got a couple of questions about membrane
  • 00:47:41
    so um basically asking how is the proton
  • 00:47:44
    harvested and returned to the photo acid
  • 00:47:46
    pool without cross-contaminating
  • 00:47:48
    cross-contaminating the seawater um and
  • 00:47:51
    other things with other chemistry um so
  • 00:47:53
    yeah are you using membranes and can you
  • 00:47:55
    just talk a little bit about how that's
  • 00:47:56
    implemented if so yeah so effectively
  • 00:47:58
    what what the problem is that you have
  • 00:48:00
    to do an ion exchange process you have
  • 00:48:02
    to get protons in and out of seawater
  • 00:48:04
    for charge balance there's cations I
  • 00:48:06
    that are moving back uh back you know in
  • 00:48:08
    in cations like sodium that are moving
  • 00:48:10
    um in the opposite sort of pathway so
  • 00:48:12
    fundamentally what the problem is an ion
  • 00:48:14
    exchange process and membranes have a
  • 00:48:16
    bunch of advantages in in in doing this
  • 00:48:18
    that's what our first off-the-shelf
  • 00:48:21
    prototype uh proof of of principle um uh
  • 00:48:25
    system used we quickly saw that that was
  • 00:48:29
    not the most cost-effective way to go
  • 00:48:31
    and we put a lot of energy into
  • 00:48:33
    developing alternative approaches we um
  • 00:48:35
    explored a bunch of different ways that
  • 00:48:37
    are used at an industrial scale um to do
  • 00:48:40
    the ion exchange process and our process
  • 00:48:43
    now relies on on one of those approaches
  • 00:48:45
    sorry I can't delve too much more uh in
  • 00:48:48
    into those details uh uh at this time um
  • 00:48:51
    but uh what I've been really happy with
  • 00:48:53
    what we've done as a team is we've moved
  • 00:48:55
    from that proof for principle to a
  • 00:48:56
    prototype that uses all uh industrially
  • 00:48:59
    scalable approaches now okay got it um
  • 00:49:03
    and is that so is that like is there are
  • 00:49:06
    you able to talk a little bit about the
  • 00:49:07
    sort of change in PH that happens from
  • 00:49:10
    like the the starting point to the uh
  • 00:49:13
    undersaturated seaw water that you've
  • 00:49:14
    released at the end of it yeah uh I see
  • 00:49:18
    so less the the photo acid I don't think
  • 00:49:21
    this is question but you know the photo
  • 00:49:23
    acid um uh changes its PKA by by three
  • 00:49:27
    so it's a thousandfold change in in
  • 00:49:28
    acidification what I think the
  • 00:49:30
    questioner is asking about is what is
  • 00:49:32
    the change in PH between a natural fluid
  • 00:49:34
    going into the process treat your
  • 00:49:35
    process as a black box what is the pH
  • 00:49:38
    coming out of the process and that's
  • 00:49:39
    sort of fundamental um aspect of aquatic
  • 00:49:43
    chemistry or or how um uh the
  • 00:49:45
    relationship between dissolved carbon
  • 00:49:48
    and pH in cat that is true irrespective
  • 00:49:51
    of which process um you're using so just
  • 00:49:54
    treat Direct carbon removal as a black
  • 00:49:56
    box whether it's us or an
  • 00:49:58
    electrochemical process if we're not
  • 00:50:00
    adding anything you know that's I think
  • 00:50:01
    a big advantage of our process is we're
  • 00:50:02
    not doing ocean alcaline enhancement
  • 00:50:04
    we're not we're not adding any material
  • 00:50:06
    to se water we're pulling out carbon
  • 00:50:07
    dioxide so if you have a process just
  • 00:50:09
    pulls out carbon dioxide then pulling
  • 00:50:12
    out carbon dioxide is like the opposite
  • 00:50:13
    of ocean acidification right during
  • 00:50:15
    ocean acidification extra carbon dioxide
  • 00:50:16
    goes into seaw water makes it more
  • 00:50:17
    acidic if you just pull out carbon
  • 00:50:19
    dioxide you make your your pH more basic
  • 00:50:22
    um and so if a uh the sea water that's
  • 00:50:26
    immediately released by our process will
  • 00:50:28
    have a pH that's elevated compared to
  • 00:50:31
    the sea water coming into the process
  • 00:50:32
    that's just a result of the chemical the
  • 00:50:36
    chemistry of um carbon dissolved in
  • 00:50:38
    seawat um and so the extent with which
  • 00:50:41
    you pull carbon dioxide out of the
  • 00:50:43
    process will determine what that pH is
  • 00:50:46
    now our process we've demonstrated on
  • 00:50:47
    the benchtop can remove
  • 00:50:50
    97% um of the of we can remove 90% of
  • 00:50:55
    the C CO2 um from the incoming seawat
  • 00:50:57
    but that leads to too high of pH
  • 00:50:59
    processes there's some other aspects of
  • 00:51:00
    our process that are more efficient when
  • 00:51:02
    we just remove 50% of of our seawater
  • 00:51:05
    and so that leads to a a pH um so the pH
  • 00:51:08
    can kind of be dialed in by how much um
  • 00:51:11
    uh of the of the carbon that you removed
  • 00:51:13
    through your process that's a balance
  • 00:51:15
    between technoeconomics and sort of how
  • 00:51:17
    quickly you think that pH will be mixed
  • 00:51:19
    and dissipate um uh in the in the
  • 00:51:21
    surrounding environment so if you pull
  • 00:51:23
    if you pull 50% of the
  • 00:51:26
    um DIC from seawater that leads to a pH
  • 00:51:28
    of 9.5 if you pull less you would have
  • 00:51:30
    lower pH okay so it's kind of a function
  • 00:51:33
    of how you control the process of salt
  • 00:51:34
    like a thing that's right and and the
  • 00:51:36
    reason that you wouldn't go to too high
  • 00:51:38
    of pH um is in part that you don't want
  • 00:51:41
    to cause precipitation of carbonates or
  • 00:51:43
    magnesium hydroxide or other minerals
  • 00:51:45
    that would mess with the process that
  • 00:51:46
    can sometimes be an issue in
  • 00:51:47
    electrochemical process where locally
  • 00:51:48
    you make really really extreme phes um
  • 00:51:51
    um our process doesn't do that um and so
  • 00:51:55
    uh we keep think we can keep our pH
  • 00:51:57
    within bounds that are both technically
  • 00:52:00
    useful and ecologically appropriate okay
  • 00:52:03
    yeah someone did ask is precipitation a
  • 00:52:04
    problem but I guess is it just the case
  • 00:52:06
    that you can control for that and keep
  • 00:52:08
    that from being a problem that's right
  • 00:52:10
    that's right you can keep the pH because
  • 00:52:11
    we never reach too low of phes in our
  • 00:52:14
    process um and um um the exiting
  • 00:52:18
    seawater doesn't really reach the
  • 00:52:20
    threshold where nucleation of those
  • 00:52:22
    minerals uh is an issue you can sort of
  • 00:52:24
    you can take sea water and titrate ph up
  • 00:52:27
    to 9.5 you won't see any murkiness um a
  • 00:52:29
    former graduate student uh worked a lot
  • 00:52:32
    on nucleation rates in in seawater so we
  • 00:52:34
    have some pretty good bounds on that got
  • 00:52:36
    it okay and then sort of on the flip
  • 00:52:37
    side someone asked could you
  • 00:52:39
    intentionally drive up the ph and try to
  • 00:52:41
    precipitate calcium carbonate so that
  • 00:52:42
    you don't have to deal with the storage
  • 00:52:44
    side is that possible way of doing this
  • 00:52:46
    yeah so precipitation that's that's an
  • 00:52:49
    important question to address
  • 00:52:51
    precipitation of calcium carbonate from
  • 00:52:52
    seawater with no other inputs leads to a
  • 00:52:57
    loss of alkalinity from the surface
  • 00:52:58
    ocean it's like the opposite of Al of
  • 00:53:00
    ocean alkalinity enhancement so in net
  • 00:53:02
    you're drawing down alkalinity which
  • 00:53:04
    affects the acidbase chemistry of water
  • 00:53:06
    in such a way that actually puts CO2
  • 00:53:08
    into the atmosphere so if not properly
  • 00:53:11
    balanced by other inputs in the system
  • 00:53:14
    precipitation of calcium carbonate
  • 00:53:15
    through a high high pH will actually do
  • 00:53:19
    kind of the opposite of of what we want
  • 00:53:21
    there's some creative approaches that
  • 00:53:22
    have another alkalinity source to
  • 00:53:24
    balance that so you can sort of you can
  • 00:53:26
    bring some pieces together to overcome
  • 00:53:28
    some of those challenges but um that's a
  • 00:53:30
    reason why precipitation of calcium
  • 00:53:31
    carbonate through our process is not
  • 00:53:33
    likely to have the intended benefit that
  • 00:53:35
    I think the the questioner sort of was
  • 00:53:38
    uh you know asking yeah makes a lot of
  • 00:53:41
    sense okay um I know you talked about
  • 00:53:43
    you know potentially using seaw water
  • 00:53:45
    versus fresh water earlier um someone
  • 00:53:47
    was asking if you could use cooling
  • 00:53:48
    tower water um since it's being pumped
  • 00:53:50
    anyway and also CO2 saturated most
  • 00:53:53
    probably um is that something you could
  • 00:53:55
    consider as a beach Head Market um
  • 00:53:57
    adding on to power plants yeah we
  • 00:53:59
    haven't we haven't looked into that
  • 00:54:00
    there's some really Seattle based
  • 00:54:02
    there's some really Seattle B cool
  • 00:54:04
    Seattle based approaches that are that
  • 00:54:06
    are taking advantage of um of uh cooling
  • 00:54:08
    water um and you know I think that's a
  • 00:54:10
    really creative way to be able to to
  • 00:54:12
    work with existing infrastructure um um
  • 00:54:15
    I think that uh we haven't looked at
  • 00:54:17
    that into detail it's a great suggestion
  • 00:54:20
    um uh
  • 00:54:22
    yeah cool um all right have still lotss
  • 00:54:26
    of questions um but I'll try to get to a
  • 00:54:28
    few more so are there any other
  • 00:54:30
    compounds or like nutrients or anything
  • 00:54:32
    else that's in the environment that
  • 00:54:33
    changes form when it gets acidified that
  • 00:54:35
    you might have to be concerned about you
  • 00:54:37
    know with respect to ecolog ecological
  • 00:54:39
    effects um as you're as you're carrying
  • 00:54:41
    out your process yeah yeah it's
  • 00:54:44
    important you know the bigger question
  • 00:54:46
    of making sure that you're a good
  • 00:54:48
    ecological Steward you know something
  • 00:54:50
    that that we think a lot about and
  • 00:54:52
    chemical oceanographers people that
  • 00:54:53
    study the ocean right that's really
  • 00:54:54
    centered to our heart um the specific
  • 00:54:57
    question of are there pH are there are
  • 00:54:59
    there um uh nutrients for instance that
  • 00:55:03
    might change their form um as a function
  • 00:55:06
    of pH there are some forms for instance
  • 00:55:09
    of nitrogen like ammonia that are you
  • 00:55:10
    know pH sensitive um in some of these
  • 00:55:13
    ranges I don't think that uh is likely
  • 00:55:17
    to be a major impact in our process and
  • 00:55:21
    and I don't dismiss that um uh you know
  • 00:55:24
    uh I'm not being dismissive of that I
  • 00:55:26
    think it's an important question but I
  • 00:55:27
    think the the aspects of our process are
  • 00:55:30
    that we produce low pH water but the
  • 00:55:32
    ocean mix it so darn quickly I mean this
  • 00:55:34
    is part of the challenge with mrv
  • 00:55:35
    actually measuring the pH difference
  • 00:55:37
    once this the the outflow mixes with the
  • 00:55:40
    environment even measuring the pH
  • 00:55:42
    difference is a challenge that's why
  • 00:55:43
    modeling is such an important part of of
  • 00:55:45
    um of mrv for for um all these um
  • 00:55:49
    ocean-based approaches that the likely
  • 00:55:51
    impact on um on nutrients like nitrogen
  • 00:55:54
    nutrients uh um is is is unlikely to be
  • 00:55:57
    a big deal the main nitrogen containing
  • 00:55:59
    nutrient nitrate is unlikely to be
  • 00:56:01
    affected by acid based chemistry right
  • 00:56:03
    okay um right we had a few questions
  • 00:56:06
    about I guess the use of photofil take
  • 00:56:08
    so are you g to use you know anything
  • 00:56:10
    off the shelf for PV or do you have to
  • 00:56:12
    develop this in a specific way to kind
  • 00:56:13
    of integrate it with the photo reactor
  • 00:56:15
    that you have um and relatedly do you
  • 00:56:17
    foresee any kind of supply chain issues
  • 00:56:19
    around procuring that at scale yeah
  • 00:56:21
    that's a really that's a really good
  • 00:56:23
    question um uh you know I think one of
  • 00:56:25
    the the key engineering challenges that
  • 00:56:28
    we're building our team around um and
  • 00:56:30
    that you know we've been really trying
  • 00:56:32
    to articulate and solve is how do we
  • 00:56:35
    build this in a way that can be deployed
  • 00:56:37
    rapidly so it can be assembled by labor
  • 00:56:39
    that's going to be available in the
  • 00:56:40
    community um and they can be assembled
  • 00:56:42
    rapidly and at scale for the cost
  • 00:56:44
    targets that we need and the solar
  • 00:56:46
    industry has developed how how to build
  • 00:56:48
    solar Farms really effectively at scale
  • 00:56:51
    it's kind of impressive right you know
  • 00:56:53
    it's a real inspiration for wow this
  • 00:56:54
    this a field that started at high cost
  • 00:56:56
    can transition to having a real impact
  • 00:56:58
    on the planet so there's a mo there's a
  • 00:57:00
    there's a modality there's a form factor
  • 00:57:02
    of our system where we bolt on we
  • 00:57:04
    literally you know are trying to design
  • 00:57:05
    our system to bolt onto existing solar
  • 00:57:07
    panels um and in which case we can
  • 00:57:10
    hopefully take advantage of a bunch of
  • 00:57:11
    that that infrastructure and so that in
  • 00:57:13
    that case the engineering design would
  • 00:57:14
    be how do you do that in a way that's
  • 00:57:16
    really scalable um uh that it's
  • 00:57:20
    resilient um that it doesn't uh you know
  • 00:57:23
    invalidate uh any warrant
  • 00:57:25
    and you know that it's very bankable
  • 00:57:26
    that it can sort of plug into project
  • 00:57:28
    financing um so that's one mode on the
  • 00:57:31
    other hand we have to move fluids and
  • 00:57:32
    that's a pretty dispersed system and so
  • 00:57:34
    we have sort of competing teams or
  • 00:57:36
    competing um modalities that we're
  • 00:57:38
    working on for how to deploy the solar
  • 00:57:40
    component and one one mode that we're
  • 00:57:42
    working with is solar concentration and
  • 00:57:44
    that involves a little bit more of uh
  • 00:57:46
    our own design of how to integrate photo
  • 00:57:49
    voltaics and the trade-offs there really
  • 00:57:51
    cost benefit in engineering and R how
  • 00:57:53
    quickly we deploy where whether we do
  • 00:57:56
    um whether we integrate into our own
  • 00:57:59
    design or whether we're able to piggy
  • 00:58:00
    back on photov voltaics and that really
  • 00:58:02
    comes down to costs and deployment and
  • 00:58:04
    is a place that um we're working
  • 00:58:06
    actively um to solve that problem and uh
  • 00:58:10
    working hard to develop our team of
  • 00:58:13
    employees and Consultants to help us
  • 00:58:15
    solve that problem okay got it um and
  • 00:58:18
    then just thinking about you know at the
  • 00:58:20
    end of the process so you want to store
  • 00:58:22
    the carbon dioxide have you thought
  • 00:58:23
    about what mode of storage you're go for
  • 00:58:25
    um and this person specifically asked
  • 00:58:27
    are you looking at gas or liquid phase
  • 00:58:28
    distribution but maybe just more
  • 00:58:30
    generally as well yeah yeah so R TAA
  • 00:58:33
    assumes compression of CO2 to Super
  • 00:58:35
    critical form and transport through
  • 00:58:37
    through pipelines and the sort of
  • 00:58:39
    typical cost of geologic sequestration
  • 00:58:42
    um our process is well adapted to um um
  • 00:58:47
    uh different sort of uh also being able
  • 00:58:50
    to produce CO2 in in aquous form that
  • 00:58:53
    could be used for mineralization our
  • 00:58:55
    sort of read on things is that
  • 00:58:56
    mineralization is this incredible
  • 00:58:58
    resource and and is definitely going to
  • 00:58:59
    be a major part of sort of the way that
  • 00:59:01
    things go forward but maybe a little bit
  • 00:59:03
    behind the geologic sequestration of
  • 00:59:05
    supercritical CO2 um um but um would
  • 00:59:08
    love to talk with people to get get
  • 00:59:10
    smarter um about that so we tried to
  • 00:59:12
    sort of pick what we think is the most
  • 00:59:14
    costly or most likely to be deployed
  • 00:59:15
    Deployable um most immediately which is
  • 00:59:18
    geologic sequestration of super critical
  • 00:59:20
    um um CO2 but I think that you know as a
  • 00:59:23
    capture company that produces CO2 um we
  • 00:59:26
    can sort of tune our process to produce
  • 00:59:28
    CO2 of different um forms and purities
  • 00:59:30
    we think and so we can sort of match
  • 00:59:32
    with a bunch of different processes and
  • 00:59:34
    utilization too you know um uh we
  • 00:59:37
    produce electricity and CO2 which are
  • 00:59:39
    basically the feed stocks for
  • 00:59:40
    sustainable fuels and really excited
  • 00:59:42
    about helping to plug into um that sort
  • 00:59:45
    of nent industry and hopefully build the
  • 00:59:47
    building blocks um that they need to
  • 00:59:49
    sort of unlock their ability to upscale
  • 00:59:51
    um um
  • 00:59:52
    carbon yeah great makes a lot of sense
  • 00:59:55
    um I'll just do probably two more and
  • 00:59:58
    then I will let you go um so just on the
  • 01:00:01
    panels themselves are they all submerged
  • 01:00:02
    in seawater and is there like an issue
  • 01:00:04
    of corrosion with that uh yeah thank you
  • 01:00:07
    I I should have actually uh hit this our
  • 01:00:09
    our likely deployment um uh form for the
  • 01:00:13
    near future is onshore is not is not
  • 01:00:15
    offshore um it's to um you know partner
  • 01:00:19
    with existing facilities that already
  • 01:00:21
    pump seawater take advantage of the
  • 01:00:23
    brown Fields the areas around these
  • 01:00:24
    Julian and I have you know toured places
  • 01:00:26
    seen and and you know talked with power
  • 01:00:29
    plants and it's surprising how much
  • 01:00:31
    space there actually is around some of
  • 01:00:32
    these to be able to develop and deploy
  • 01:00:34
    our our sunlight collection um systems
  • 01:00:37
    and so there is there's nothing about
  • 01:00:39
    our process that it requires that it is
  • 01:00:42
    stuck on land and there's real
  • 01:00:43
    advantages to working offshore but also
  • 01:00:45
    as oceanographers we know how hard it is
  • 01:00:47
    to work offshore how some of the issues
  • 01:00:49
    that the the the questioner sort of
  • 01:00:52
    brought up come up we think that the
  • 01:00:53
    easier path for deployment and Rapid
  • 01:00:55
    scale up is being onshore next to
  • 01:00:58
    seawater or river water is is the
  • 01:01:00
    pathway to really sort of scale this up
  • 01:01:01
    before we tackle the larger engineering
  • 01:01:04
    challenge of
  • 01:01:05
    offshore okay great and last question um
  • 01:01:08
    could you tell us a story behind the
  • 01:01:09
    name someone ask that and I think oh
  • 01:01:12
    yeah yeah so carbon um uh uh Julian does
  • 01:01:17
    a does a lot of work in his academic
  • 01:01:19
    career in um Pacific Islands um uh and
  • 01:01:23
    uh B is one of there's many dialects in
  • 01:01:26
    in in Indonesia and Malaysia but it's
  • 01:01:27
    one of the in one of the dialects it's
  • 01:01:29
    the word for for
  • 01:01:31
    water y great um cool thank you guys
  • 01:01:34
    thank you so much for joining us um this
  • 01:01:36
    has been really great and Toby I'll hand
  • 01:01:38
    it back to you to talk about what's
  • 01:01:39
    coming
  • 01:01:41
    next excellent thank you Mega um and oh
  • 01:01:45
    thank you Alex um really appreciate you
  • 01:01:47
    being with us that was fantastic super
  • 01:01:49
    exciting to learn more about p and and
  • 01:01:51
    wishing you Julian a speedy recovery and
  • 01:01:53
    wishing you guys all the best with your
  • 01:01:55
    next steps thanks so much thank you
  • 01:01:58
    really really great to be here and thank
  • 01:02:00
    you for staying a few minutes extra
  • 01:02:01
    there are so many questions um so I am
  • 01:02:03
    going to share my screen very briefly uh
  • 01:02:05
    I put a link in the chat to our Luma
  • 01:02:08
    page which we have moved on to from
  • 01:02:10
    Eventbrite and um we have several this
  • 01:02:13
    is cdrs booked in the coming weeks uh
  • 01:02:15
    air hiive uh one of um uh Ban's uh
  • 01:02:20
    Frontier summer 23 um purchase cohort
  • 01:02:23
    mates um direct air capture based in uh
  • 01:02:26
    the UK our friend Rory um so super
  • 01:02:28
    excited about that another actually all
  • 01:02:30
    of these guys are um in the frontier
  • 01:02:32
    portfolio alkal Earth holine and then um
  • 01:02:34
    bzero uh in March to talk about how
  • 01:02:37
    we're going to do ratings for carbon
  • 01:02:39
    removal um thank you all for being with
  • 01:02:41
    us uh again there's a link in the chat
  • 01:02:44
    to um to register for all of the
  • 01:02:46
    upcoming this cdrs uh here is Rory and
  • 01:02:49
    Jasper uh next week with aive and uh we
  • 01:02:52
    really appreciate you being with us and
  • 01:02:53
    again thank you thank you so much to
  • 01:02:54
    Alex for uh his time today and for
  • 01:02:56
    sharing uh all that great information
  • 01:02:58
    about B be well and we'll see you in a
  • 01:03:23
    week
  • 01:03:40
    [Music]
  • 01:03:52
    [Music]
  • 01:03:58
    yeah
Tags
  • Carbon Removal
  • Open Air
  • Vanu Carbon
  • Photochemical Process
  • Seawater CO2 Capture
  • Environmental Innovation
  • Techno-economic Analysis
  • Policy Advocacy
  • Climate Change Solutions
  • Renewable Energy Integration