This Is CDR Ep. 92: Banyu Carbon with Dr. Alex Gagnon.
Summary
TLDRIn Episode 92 of "This is CDR," the online series exploring carbon removal solutions hosted by Open Air, Toby Bryce and Mega Ragavan introduce the Massachusetts Carbon Dioxide Removal Leadership Act as a state-level initiative to advance carbon removal. The highlight is Dr. Alex Gagnon's presentation on Vanu Carbon's photochemical carbon dioxide removal (CDR) process. This innovative technology utilizes unique photo acids that are activated by sunlight to capture CO2 from seawater quickly and efficiently. Dr. Gagnon explains the chemistry behind using these photo acids, advantages over traditional methods, energy savings through integrated solar photovoltaics, and its global scaling potential. The presentation highlights the environmental benefits and techno-economic viability of this approach. Audience questions demonstrate keen interest in the photochemical process, its environmental impact, feasibility, and future escalations. The episode concludes with upcoming segments in the series that will continue to showcase progressive carbon removal innovations.
Takeaways
- 📰 Open Air presents "This is CDR" to promote carbon removal solutions.
- 🔬 Dr. Alex Gagnon introduces Vanu Carbon's novel photochemical approach.
- 🌊 The process extracts CO2 from seawater using sunlight-triggered photo acids.
- 🔋 Vanu Carbon integrates photovoltaics for energy efficiency in the CDR process.
- 📈 The process promises lower energy consumption compared to traditional methods.
- 🧪 Effective for climate change mitigation and ocean health improvement.
- 📈 Aims for scalable, cost-effective carbon removal solutions by mid-century.
- 🏛️ Legislation like Massachusetts' CDR Act is crucial for advancing technologies.
- 💬 Interactive session addresses technology, impact, and community outreach.
- 🔜 Future "This is CDR" episodes will continue exploring innovative solutions.
Timeline
- 00:00:00 - 00:05:00
The episode introduces 'This is CDR', a series presented by Open Air that explores carbon removal solutions. Open Air is a volunteer network aiming for responsible CDR advancement in policies globally. The introduction includes information about Open Air, its missions, and a current project focused on Massachusetts' CDR procurement bill. CDR is defined and emphasized as necessary for climate solutions but not replacing emission reductions.
- 00:05:00 - 00:10:00
Dr. Alex Gagnon from Vanu Carbon introduces an innovative photochemical process for CO2 removal from seawater using sunlight instead of electrochemical reactions, presenting a sustainable method with potential for electricity generation. The process uses seawater, capitalizing on its natural CO2 concentration, and can result in carbon-neutral fuel production while offering straightforward MRV due to the technology's direct CO2 removal capabilities.
- 00:10:00 - 00:15:00
Dr. Gagnon explains the basics of ocean-based CO2 capture, drawing parallels with direct air capture (DAC). Both methods involve capturing CO2 from interconnected systems—the atmosphere and surface oceans. By removing CO2 from the ocean, Vanu Carbon's method effectively reduces atmospheric CO2 as well. The ocean's fast mixing properties aid in sustaining this CO2 balance, making the process comparable to DAC in atmospheric impact.
- 00:15:00 - 00:20:00
The process leverages seawater’s natural CO2 concentration, eliminating the need for large contactor farms like those in DAC. It uses available technology for large-scale seawater processing, presenting an opportunity to repurpose waste streams from facilities such as power plants. The method aims to avoid the challenges faced in air-based systems by focusing on the ocean’s higher CO2 concentration for more efficient capture.
- 00:20:00 - 00:25:00
Seawater, containing a higher concentration of dissolved inorganic carbon compared to air, presents a less energy-intensive method for CO2 removal. Unlike challenging air unmixing, temporary seawater acidification using Vanu Carbon’s method can effectively liberate CO2. This method, avoiding electrochemical processes that require extensive energy, innovates by using reversible photoacids, offering a sustainable and low-energy CO2 extraction technique.
- 00:25:00 - 00:30:00
Vanu Carbon’s innovation uses reversible photoacids that become highly acidic when exposed to light, temporarily acidifying seawater to release CO2. When light is removed, these photoacids revert to their original form and absorb protons, returning the seawater to a decarbonated, non-acidified state. This process, separating photoacid use from seawater, aims for repeated cycles with minimal degradation, promising a cost-effective and sustainable solution.
- 00:30:00 - 00:35:00
The system is shown to be industrially scalable, with demonstrated successful lab tests using natural sunlight and seawater. Vanu Carbon capitalizes on the absorption properties of photoacids mainly absorbing blue light, leaving other spectral parts to generate electricity through integrated photovoltaics. This dual use not only meets the energy demands of the process but also allows for net electricity production, enhancing the method’s sustainability credentials.
- 00:35:00 - 00:40:00
The projected energy efficiency of Vanu's process is detailed as significantly better than traditional DAC methods, with potential net energy production when integrating photovoltaics. A comparative analysis highlights the advantages of their system over existing carbon capture technologies in terms of energy use and cost-effectiveness, supporting their aim to achieve carbon removal at lower costs and high carbon efficiency rates.
- 00:40:00 - 00:45:00
Vanu Carbon projects significant cost reductions by optimizing their process, aiming for $200 per ton initially, with future reductions to $100 per ton at larger scales. Their low-energy approach, capable of generating net green electricity, is evaluated with a high LCA efficiency, translating captured carbon into retained carbon far more effectively than many existing methods, further validating their innovative approach to carbon capture.
- 00:45:00 - 00:50:00
The presentation outlines Vanu Carbon's rapid development and deployment goals, supported by investments and partnerships, with a plan to reach demonstration and market scales. The timeline includes near-term pilot projects aimed at refining technology and expanding capacity, aiming towards the scalability necessary for real climate impact. Their focus on industrial collaboration highlights a strategy to leverage existing infrastructures for faster implementation.
- 00:50:00 - 00:55:00
Challenges regarding rapid scalability and technical improvements around photoacid longevity and efficiency are addressed. The company discusses strategies to manage growth, technology development, and potential social issues surrounding deployment. Vanu Carbon emphasizes the ongoing need for innovation in extending the lifespan of materials and ensuring environmentally and socially responsible scaling of their technology.
- 00:55:00 - 01:04:00
The session concludes with a discussion on the potential of using various water sources, scalability, and deployment challenges in ocean environments. The use of land and sunlight, partnerships for water sourcing, and ensuring sustainability through thorough ecological impact assessments are explored, along with future commercialization steps in partnership and collaboration with other industries toward achieving significant carbon removal targets.
Mind Map
Video Q&A
What is the main topic of this video?
The video is about Episode 92 of "This is CDR," focusing on carbon removal solutions, particularly Vanu Carbon's photochemical method for extracting CO2 from seawater.
Who is the presenter for this episode?
Dr. Alex Gagnon, co-founder of Vanu Carbon, presents during this episode.
What does Vanu Carbon specialize in?
Vanu Carbon specializes in a novel photochemical process using photo acids to capture and remove CO2 from seawater.
What organization is behind the "This is CDR" series?
The "This is CDR" series is presented by Open Air, a collaborative network dedicated to advancing carbon removal solutions.
What legislation is discussed in the episode?
The episode discusses the Massachusetts Carbon Dioxide Removal Leadership Act, aimed at advancing carbon removal at the state level.
How does Vanu Carbon's technology work?
Vanu Carbon uses photo acids activated by sunlight to acidify seawater temporarily, allowing CO2 to be extracted and subsequently stored or used.
What is the role of photochemical reactors in Vanu Carbon's process?
Photochemical reactors using sunlight drive a chemical reaction with photo acids to convert carbonates in seawater into CO2 gas for removal.
What are the energy requirements of Vanu Carbon's process?
The process anticipates lower energy consumption than traditional methods, using photovoltaic cells to also generate energy.
How does Open Air engage the community?
Open Air engages by advocating policies, organizing projects, and encouraging community participation for carbon removal.
What format does the "This is CDR" event follow?
The event format includes a presentation, prepared questions, and a moderated Q&A session.
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- 00:00:00[Music]
- 00:00:18welcome everyone pleased to have you
- 00:00:20here with us today for episode 92 of
- 00:00:22this is CDR this is CDR is an online
- 00:00:25event series presented by open air to
- 00:00:27explore the range of carbon removal
- 00:00:28Solutions currently being researched to
- 00:00:29veloped and deployed and to
- 00:00:31contextualize them for policy proposals
- 00:00:32open air seeks to advance uh here in the
- 00:00:35US really at every level of government
- 00:00:36as well as in National and subnational
- 00:00:38jurisdictions globally my name is Toby
- 00:00:40Bryce based in Brooklyn New York and I
- 00:00:42work on policy and Market development
- 00:00:43for open air if you haven't done so
- 00:00:45already please introduce yourself in the
- 00:00:47chat tell us where you're zooming in
- 00:00:48from if You' like your affiliation and
- 00:00:50make sure you direct that message to
- 00:00:51everyone and not just hosts and
- 00:00:53panelists quick background on open air
- 00:00:56we're distributed all volunteer network
- 00:00:58dedicated to the responsible advant ment
- 00:01:00of CDR um we are a global Community
- 00:01:03working together on shared projects that
- 00:01:05we call missions um in the areas of
- 00:01:07policy Innovation Communications and
- 00:01:09activist Market development my co-host
- 00:01:12and colleague Mega ragavan is in running
- 00:01:14the chat and she'll put some links in
- 00:01:15there where you can get some background
- 00:01:16on our organization there's a link that
- 00:01:18you can fill out a form to join our
- 00:01:20group we'd love to have you be a part of
- 00:01:21what we're doing here's a snapshot of
- 00:01:23some active missions we have going again
- 00:01:25in those four different areas um Lots
- 00:01:27going on you can start your own projects
- 00:01:29it's platform open source that um really
- 00:01:32trying to to sort of drive and amplify
- 00:01:34and accelerate climate
- 00:01:36action one of our really important
- 00:01:38projects happening right now that's
- 00:01:40really at a moment of uh kind of in the
- 00:01:42balance is a state level CDR procurement
- 00:01:44bill called the Massachusetts carbon
- 00:01:45dioxide removal leadership act
- 00:01:48s296 we are working on it now it has a
- 00:01:50chance to actually get past this spring
- 00:01:54um so it's really kind of a critical
- 00:01:55time if you live in Massachusetts please
- 00:01:58reach out we'd love to have we'd love to
- 00:01:59get or help as many constituents as
- 00:02:01possible speaking to the representatives
- 00:02:02about this important bill as always we
- 00:02:06would like to Define our terms here's a
- 00:02:07definition of CDR from a great resource
- 00:02:09called the CDR primer um anthropogenic
- 00:02:12purposeful human activity to remove CO2
- 00:02:14from the atmosphere and durably store it
- 00:02:15in geological terrestrial or ocean
- 00:02:17reservoirs or in Long Live products this
- 00:02:19is essentially the same definition that
- 00:02:21the ipcc uses and we think it's
- 00:02:22important to kind of align on a single
- 00:02:24definition of this term and um this is
- 00:02:27one we like to work with whenever we
- 00:02:29talk about CDR it's really important to
- 00:02:31call out loudly clearly from the
- 00:02:33rooftops and repeatedly as we do on this
- 00:02:36program probably to the boredom of
- 00:02:37regular listeners is that CDR is in no
- 00:02:39way shape or form any sort of substitute
- 00:02:42for rapid decarbonization rapid and deep
- 00:02:44reductions of grow Global greenhouse gas
- 00:02:46emissions that is the vast majority of
- 00:02:49our climate work 90 plus percent we need
- 00:02:52to be doing it now as quickly as
- 00:02:53possible um we can't let CDR distract
- 00:02:56from that effort that said there's clear
- 00:02:58scientific consensus that CDR is a
- 00:03:01necessary climate solution it will be
- 00:03:02required at multi- gigaton scale
- 00:03:05billions of tons per year approximately
- 00:03:07the size of the current oil and gas
- 00:03:09sector by mid-century we need to start
- 00:03:11building that capability in that
- 00:03:12industry now and that's what the sector
- 00:03:14is really focused on we are not trying
- 00:03:16to take the eye off the ball of
- 00:03:18emissions reductions but um we need to
- 00:03:20start developing CDR Solutions now so we
- 00:03:22can scale to millions and eventually
- 00:03:24billions of tons by mid-century it's the
- 00:03:26work that we're here that's what we're
- 00:03:27here to discuss and I'm going to hand it
- 00:03:29over to my colleague Mega ragavan who is
- 00:03:30going to talk a little bit about the
- 00:03:32show and introduce today's presenter
- 00:03:35Mega hello hi um I'm mea I'm an open air
- 00:03:39member uh based in London and I work on
- 00:03:41policy and Market development as well um
- 00:03:43so just quick housekeeping notes before
- 00:03:45we start we're going to have a short
- 00:03:46presentation to begin with and that'll
- 00:03:48be followed by a few prepared questions
- 00:03:50and then we'll have moderated audience
- 00:03:51Q&A so as we go along uh please just
- 00:03:53type any questions you have into the Q&A
- 00:03:55box in Zoom it is separate from the chat
- 00:03:57box so please try to find the right one
- 00:03:59um just to help help us manage that a
- 00:04:00little bit better um we are also
- 00:04:03recording the event so we'll send the
- 00:04:04recording out to everyone who registered
- 00:04:06we'll also be posting it to opener's
- 00:04:08website and open A's YouTube channel um
- 00:04:10all right this week we're very pleased
- 00:04:12to welcome vanu carbon co-founder do Dr
- 00:04:14Alex Gagnon to present and discuss the
- 00:04:16company's novel photochemical CDR
- 00:04:18process to capture carbon dioxide from
- 00:04:20seawater uh Dr Alex gon has a PHD in
- 00:04:23chemistry from Caltech as well as a BS
- 00:04:26from UC Berkeley he is an expert in
- 00:04:27Marine carbon and was recognized with
- 00:04:29National Science Science Foundation
- 00:04:31career award he shared his work with
- 00:04:33President Obama and as an invited P
- 00:04:35panelist for the nationaly he's deeply
- 00:04:37involved in Marine carbon removal
- 00:04:39research both in his academic and now
- 00:04:41his business roles he is on leave from
- 00:04:43his faculty duties at the University of
- 00:04:44Washington to Advanced Buu the CDR
- 00:04:46technology developed with co-founder
- 00:04:48Julian sucks when not working on Buu
- 00:04:50Alex loves to run hike and garden with
- 00:04:52his family so Alex whenever you're ready
- 00:04:55uh feel free to come
- 00:04:58on
- 00:05:00excellent thank you for that
- 00:05:01introduction and I'm I feel really
- 00:05:03honored to be here and to be joined by a
- 00:05:06bunch of the colleagues in this field
- 00:05:07that are really trying to push carbon
- 00:05:09removal um forward I I would usually
- 00:05:12also be joined um by my co-founder
- 00:05:14Julian saaks um uh but he's recovering
- 00:05:18from um covid and and I'm joining you
- 00:05:21from uh Seattle which is not so Sunny
- 00:05:24which is a little bit ironic given that
- 00:05:25we are developing a uh sunlight based um
- 00:05:29Pro process so um uh I'm going to uh
- 00:05:35share a few um uh slides here to sort of
- 00:05:39introduce uh our process and then that
- 00:05:41can kick off the Q&A and so um Julian
- 00:05:44and I formed Bon carbon to commercialize
- 00:05:48what uh we think is a fundamentally new
- 00:05:50energy efficient and simple approach for
- 00:05:53direct carbon dioxide removal from
- 00:05:54seawater and instead of electrochemical
- 00:05:57approaches um uh which has been making
- 00:05:59really rapid advances in in this area we
- 00:06:02use sunlight to drive a chemical
- 00:06:04reaction um that causes CO2 to be
- 00:06:06released from uh sea water so in its
- 00:06:10simplest terms our process is designed
- 00:06:12to use sea water or for that matter
- 00:06:14river water uh as an input because uh as
- 00:06:17many of you know seawat is naturally
- 00:06:20rich in CO2 and naturally concentrates
- 00:06:22CO2 from the atmosphere we then do a
- 00:06:25direct carbon dioxide removal from this
- 00:06:27natural sea water through a light
- 00:06:28triggered chemical reaction and this
- 00:06:31then can produce a easily measured
- 00:06:33stream of carbon dioxide that can be
- 00:06:35geologically sequestered or used as a
- 00:06:37feed stock for industrial processes like
- 00:06:39the production of sustainable fuels um
- 00:06:42and because it's a direct CO2 removal um
- 00:06:45approach that means that it's uh easier
- 00:06:47verification than many other approaches
- 00:06:49and and there's clear additionality
- 00:06:50although uh as we'll discussed there's
- 00:06:52of course still um important aspects of
- 00:06:55mrb related to airc gas exchange our
- 00:06:58process is light trigger but we can take
- 00:07:00advantage of the energy in sunlight to
- 00:07:02do different tasks we use the blue light
- 00:07:05uh in sunlight to drive our process but
- 00:07:07we can simultaneously use the other
- 00:07:09parts of the spectrum to generate
- 00:07:10electricity using photovoltaics which
- 00:07:13means that we're projected to cover all
- 00:07:14our energy needs of our process and even
- 00:07:17produce electricity in net with a
- 00:07:19relatively compact
- 00:07:21footprint so in summary you know our
- 00:07:24process is designed to remove CO2 the
- 00:07:26root cause of climate change in ocean
- 00:07:28acidification from seawater um we
- 00:07:31produce a decarbonated stream of
- 00:07:32seawater that's chemically unchanged
- 00:07:34other than having less CO2 in it and
- 00:07:36this decarbonated water takes up CO2
- 00:07:38from the atmosphere so you know most of
- 00:07:42this really educated crowd on on carbon
- 00:07:44removal is familiar with direct carbon
- 00:07:46removal from seawater I think um carbon
- 00:07:48blue presented in the fall and of course
- 00:07:50captura and others have been um
- 00:07:52presenters before and so like these
- 00:07:54approaches uh we take advantage of the
- 00:07:56fact that the oceans are an incredible
- 00:07:58resource when it comes to to carbon
- 00:07:59removal so uh for the surface ocean
- 00:08:03carbon removal uh in many places is
- 00:08:06effectively similar to carbon removal
- 00:08:07directly from the atmosphere this is as
- 00:08:09you're probably familiar because of the
- 00:08:10relatively rapid exchange of CO2 between
- 00:08:13the atmosphere and the surface ocean on
- 00:08:14the time scale of several months to to a
- 00:08:16year and so as long as the water exiting
- 00:08:19our process stays in the upper ocean and
- 00:08:22in contact with the atmosphere for
- 00:08:23months to a year on a similar time scale
- 00:08:26um which is the case for much of the
- 00:08:27surface ocean in many of the places that
- 00:08:28we want to site our facilities then this
- 00:08:31exchange will occur um so I think it's
- 00:08:35useful to dig in a little bit more about
- 00:08:37this and so to sort of explore that
- 00:08:40concept a little bit more I want to do a
- 00:08:41thought experiment and imagine not that
- 00:08:43you're doing a direct ocean capture play
- 00:08:45but that you're doing direct air capture
- 00:08:47you've invented an air capture plant to
- 00:08:48remove CO2 from the atmosphere you can
- 00:08:51pull directly out of the top box here
- 00:08:53this will result in a deficit in
- 00:08:55atmospheric CO2 with respect to Ocean
- 00:08:57exchange um and because of uh uh and
- 00:09:02this deficit um with respect to Ocean
- 00:09:04exchange will cause the surface ocean to
- 00:09:07absorb less and in effect burp back up
- 00:09:09CO2 to replace some of the CO2 that's
- 00:09:11removed so direct air capture pulls CO2
- 00:09:14from the atmosphere but it's
- 00:09:16simultaneously pulling CO2 out of the
- 00:09:18ocean too because of airc gas exchange
- 00:09:20similarly if you're doing direct ocean
- 00:09:22capture you're pulling from both these
- 00:09:23boxes too and so both of these are
- 00:09:27pulling from both boxes they're
- 00:09:28effective
- 00:09:29a similar uh have a similar effect and
- 00:09:32for Mo most climate models and many of
- 00:09:34the ways that we think about the carbon
- 00:09:36cycle we often bend the surface ocean
- 00:09:39and the atmosphere together when
- 00:09:40thinking about total carbon balance and
- 00:09:42total um uh impact uh on on climate um
- 00:09:47so because we are able to do direct
- 00:09:50ocean capture and have and as long as we
- 00:09:52pull from parts of the surface ocean
- 00:09:54that are in exchange with the atmosphere
- 00:09:56relatively rapid exchange with the
- 00:09:57atmosphere and and stay in exchange for
- 00:09:59sufficiently long time periods we can
- 00:10:01take advantage of many of the benefits
- 00:10:02of working with seaer as a source of CO2
- 00:10:05while having a similar climate impact as
- 00:10:08direct air capture so um instead of
- 00:10:11having to build large and expensive Farm
- 00:10:12fan uh uh fan Farms to act as gas
- 00:10:14contactors we take advantage of the
- 00:10:16ocean surface as a natural collector and
- 00:10:18concentrator of CO2 and I think the a
- 00:10:21key thing here is that the technology to
- 00:10:25process seawater on a massive scale is
- 00:10:27really welldeveloped
- 00:10:29pumping seawater his old Tech facilities
- 00:10:32like once through cool power plants um
- 00:10:35pump large volumes of seawat at a
- 00:10:37massive scale um and have been doing so
- 00:10:40for decades going on to a century and so
- 00:10:43these are an opportunity partnering with
- 00:10:46facilities like these um are an
- 00:10:48opportunity to turn what's effectively a
- 00:10:49waste stream um uh into a source of
- 00:10:52carbon removal and potentially source of
- 00:10:53Revenue so um some of the advantages of
- 00:10:58working with c is that compared to
- 00:11:01pulling carbon dioxide from the air
- 00:11:02comes from the fact that air in the CO2
- 00:11:04is just a trace gas and it's just hard
- 00:11:07to un miix it's hard to beat that
- 00:11:09entropy you know when you're trying to
- 00:11:10pull carbon dioxide out of the
- 00:11:11atmosphere there's 2,000 other molecules
- 00:11:12or atoms um in the way and and sorbents
- 00:11:15that have The Binding energy to pull the
- 00:11:17CO2 out of the air and unmix it
- 00:11:19typically need a lot of energy to
- 00:11:20release this CO2 that's a major
- 00:11:22contributor of the energy needs and cost
- 00:11:24of direct um air capture in contrast
- 00:11:28dissolved in organ carbon is more
- 00:11:30abundant in Sea than all other dissolved
- 00:11:32gases so you know we fli sort of what's
- 00:11:35the trace component here and through our
- 00:11:38technique um and similar pH swinging
- 00:11:40techniques it's relatively easy to
- 00:11:42liberate this carbon dioxide from seawat
- 00:11:46so um most of the carbon in seawater
- 00:11:49occurs as proteinated and hydrated forms
- 00:11:51that sort of show in here as bicarbonate
- 00:11:53and carbonate ions CO2 is typically a
- 00:11:56minor species and that's why sea stores
- 00:11:59so much carbon dioxide and every direct
- 00:12:02carbon dioxide removal from seawater
- 00:12:03process that I'm aware of relies on some
- 00:12:05sort of temporary pH modification to
- 00:12:08extract this
- 00:12:09CO2 uh in in our process and several
- 00:12:12others temporary acidification can
- 00:12:15convert all the dissolved forms of
- 00:12:17inorganic carbon to
- 00:12:19CO2 at which point this CO2 will
- 00:12:22spontaneously exit the solution and it's
- 00:12:24easy to extract this CO2 from seawater
- 00:12:26at scale using commercially available
- 00:12:28off the shell
- 00:12:29gas contacting systems so in short all
- 00:12:32direct CO2 removal processes are
- 00:12:34basically solving the problem of how to
- 00:12:36do this temporary pH swing or or a
- 00:12:38temporary acidification step with really
- 00:12:41low energy right the energy is an issue
- 00:12:43because that's where a lot of the energy
- 00:12:44comes in for other carbon removal
- 00:12:46processes you know several
- 00:12:47electrochemical processes literally
- 00:12:49split water in an effort to make acids
- 00:12:51they're doing all this Redux chemistry
- 00:12:52when really all they're looking for is
- 00:12:54the acids and bases needed to to do this
- 00:12:56sort of Step so we have a totally
- 00:12:58different approach that's not
- 00:13:00electrochemical and we can this allows
- 00:13:02us to do this pH swing this temporary
- 00:13:04acidification in a really energy
- 00:13:06efficient way that's directly coupled to
- 00:13:08um light so uh that the heart of our
- 00:13:12technology is the use of a class of
- 00:13:14molecues is called a reversible photo
- 00:13:16acids we do this to temporarily acidify
- 00:13:19seawater so this special class of
- 00:13:21molecules when exposed to light change
- 00:13:25their shape so visible light interacts
- 00:13:27with this molecule and it it change its
- 00:13:29shape and when it changes its shape it
- 00:13:31changes its chemical behavior um and
- 00:13:33when it changes its shape it becomes a
- 00:13:35thousand times more acidic and uh for
- 00:13:39those non- chemists out there that when
- 00:13:41you're acidic you release a proton a
- 00:13:43proton which is just a charged um
- 00:13:45hydrogen um atom is what chemists mean
- 00:13:48when we're talking about acidity and so
- 00:13:50when this molecule absorbs a photon of
- 00:13:53of visible light it changes shape and it
- 00:13:56kicks out a proton it becomes really
- 00:13:57acidic um we can then transfer that
- 00:14:01acidity to seawater causing it to
- 00:14:03liberate CO2 and then the really uh
- 00:14:07useful property of this molecule is then
- 00:14:09when it's no longer exposed to light it
- 00:14:11relaxes back to its ground state it
- 00:14:12relaxes back to its previous form um so
- 00:14:15that it can be reused for the next cycle
- 00:14:17and when it relaxes back to its previous
- 00:14:18form it wants to pull back a proton um
- 00:14:22and we can use this as part of a of a
- 00:14:24cycle to drive carbon dioxide removal um
- 00:14:28using power of sunlight and so um this
- 00:14:32excitation of our molecule is nearly
- 00:14:35instantaneous and then the activated
- 00:14:37form lasts for several minutes so long
- 00:14:39enough to do important work um and it's
- 00:14:42currently stable the forms the the
- 00:14:44molecules that we're using are currently
- 00:14:45stable for about 10 days under
- 00:14:47operational conditions um but there's a
- 00:14:49lot of uh uh advances uh that are being
- 00:14:52done to extend that lifetime its
- 00:14:54activity is retained over thousands of
- 00:14:56Cycles it can be used many many many
- 00:14:58many many many times it's a small
- 00:15:00molecule with a simple synthesis out of
- 00:15:02inexpensive starting materials it's very
- 00:15:04similar to D molecules that are produced
- 00:15:06industrially at a at a massive scale um
- 00:15:09there's no metals or rare elements in
- 00:15:11these molecules we keep these photo
- 00:15:13acids completely separate um from
- 00:15:15seawater and not that much photo acid is
- 00:15:18is required um for our process at steady
- 00:15:23state we expect about a half a kilo or
- 00:15:25so of photo ained per ton per year
- 00:15:27capacity um in the in the models the
- 00:15:30process models of our system that that
- 00:15:31that we've developed and even when you
- 00:15:33account for degradation that results in
- 00:15:35a where we're projecting a few kilograms
- 00:15:38of photo acid being required for each
- 00:15:39ton of CO2 um removed so putting all
- 00:15:44these pieces together into a process we
- 00:15:46take take advantage of the vast amount
- 00:15:48of carbon that's trapped in seawat as an
- 00:15:50input and our simple low energy process
- 00:15:54liberates this carbon from seawat by
- 00:15:55temporarily acidifying it that's
- 00:15:57analogous to a lot of pH swing um direct
- 00:15:59carbon dioxide removal processes um that
- 00:16:01converts this dissolved carbon dioxide
- 00:16:03to CO2 gas which is efficiently removed
- 00:16:05through a gas contactor as a stream of
- 00:16:08CO2 that can be um easily verified
- 00:16:10geologically stored and uh or or
- 00:16:13utilized um and so to do this process um
- 00:16:18we uh to to sort of trigger this process
- 00:16:20to cause the temporary pH um swing um
- 00:16:24we're exposing our photo acid to visible
- 00:16:26light it changes confirmation um which
- 00:16:29makes it acidic which releases these
- 00:16:31protons the protons are then transferred
- 00:16:33to seawat um through a process that
- 00:16:35keeps the photo acid separate uh from
- 00:16:39seawater and then when they're no longer
- 00:16:41exposed to light they relax back to
- 00:16:43their ground state for use in uh the
- 00:16:45next cycle and then um when uh uh the
- 00:16:51protons that were trans that were
- 00:16:54temporarily transferred to seawater um
- 00:16:56are no longer necessary they return to
- 00:16:58the photo acid so as the photo acid
- 00:17:01relaxes it has a really high affinity
- 00:17:03for his protons it's changed acidity by
- 00:17:05thousandfold it's now no longer acidic
- 00:17:07and don't mean to anthropomorphize
- 00:17:09molecules but it sort of wants that
- 00:17:11proton back um that allows us to to
- 00:17:13clean up after ourselves pull the proton
- 00:17:15out of solution such that the such that
- 00:17:18we just released decarbonated water to
- 00:17:20sea water that has um the only change
- 00:17:23that's happened in net is that we remove
- 00:17:25carbon dioxide the root cause of of
- 00:17:27climate change from that sea water so
- 00:17:29that it can go on and absorb more carbon
- 00:17:31dioxide from the atmosphere um and um
- 00:17:35the ocean mixes quickly but the
- 00:17:37decarbonated water has the added benefit
- 00:17:39that at least probably in a local area
- 00:17:41um it can help um likely counteract some
- 00:17:44of the impacts of ocean acidification
- 00:17:46we're basically rolling back the clock
- 00:17:47pulling CO2 out of seawater sort of the
- 00:17:49opposite of ocean acidification and in
- 00:17:54the lab and field prototypes um um that
- 00:17:57we've developed and tested in our lab
- 00:17:58we've demonstrated carbon removal using
- 00:18:00natural sunlight um and we've used
- 00:18:02natural seawat to demonstrate that each
- 00:18:05of the key parts of our process work as
- 00:18:06modeled um uh and as expected using um
- 00:18:11all industrially scalable uh approaches
- 00:18:15one of the I think one of the really
- 00:18:17exciting things about working with
- 00:18:19sunlight in these in these um photo
- 00:18:22acids is that um uh we can use sunlight
- 00:18:26to do multiple jobs and because the
- 00:18:29photo acid absorbs mainly blue light um
- 00:18:33much of the visible light energy in
- 00:18:35sunlight can pass through our reaction
- 00:18:37you can sort of think in schematic form
- 00:18:39as our reaction our process requiring
- 00:18:42photo acid to um interact with the
- 00:18:44sunlight as a thin layer of fluid that
- 00:18:47has photo acid in it and that light
- 00:18:48passes through it and the light that's
- 00:18:50required for the photo acid reaction is
- 00:18:52is absorbed but the remainder of the
- 00:18:54spectrum is available and can pass
- 00:18:56through that that thin layer on the
- 00:18:57order of about a centimeter layer um and
- 00:18:59it can be used for generate electricity
- 00:19:02and where there's a really nice
- 00:19:03complementarity in that the part of the
- 00:19:05spectrum that we use for our photo acid
- 00:19:07is also the part of the spectrum that
- 00:19:09really cheap photovoltaic cells are not
- 00:19:12tuned to use really well so there's a
- 00:19:13really good complementarity um um there
- 00:19:16so um the visible light energy that
- 00:19:19passes through our process can be used
- 00:19:21to generate electricity by embedding
- 00:19:23these inexpensive solar cells beneath
- 00:19:25our photo reactors um and we project
- 00:19:27that um this can cover our energy needs
- 00:19:29and even produce energy and net um with
- 00:19:32our uh uh for our process which is a
- 00:19:35major advantage um we think over
- 00:19:37competing a carbon removal processes can
- 00:19:39often be really energy intensive and so
- 00:19:42with this attenuation of light because
- 00:19:43the photo acid we we predict uh uh that
- 00:19:47the photovoltaics would sort of operate
- 00:19:48at sort of 60% of the efficiency that
- 00:19:50they would if there was nothing um
- 00:19:52obstructing them and really importantly
- 00:19:56because we're already collecting all
- 00:19:57this light for our process we're not
- 00:19:59using any new land to do this photov
- 00:20:01voltaics we're sort of taking advantage
- 00:20:03of the infrastructure we already have to
- 00:20:04use to collect light and just being able
- 00:20:06to for very little marginal extra costs
- 00:20:08insert photo voltaics into our system
- 00:20:11but with a large marginal
- 00:20:12benefit so um our processes projected to
- 00:20:17require a lot less energy than competing
- 00:20:19processes and this is really because of
- 00:20:21a number of factors It's relatively
- 00:20:22simple and also because we directly
- 00:20:24couple sunlight to carbon removal um and
- 00:20:28furthermore with photov voltaic
- 00:20:30integration we expect to produce energy
- 00:20:31in net so here is the uh plot of the our
- 00:20:34projected energy required in kilowatt
- 00:20:36hours per ton um uh assuming that we
- 00:20:39continue to hit our milestones and this
- 00:20:40is sort of projected out to about um uh
- 00:20:4324 months of continued development um
- 00:20:46this is in green is including uh
- 00:20:49photovoltaics um but even without photov
- 00:20:52voltaics our gross energy needs shown
- 00:20:55here in red are projected to be better
- 00:20:57than best in-class competitors like the
- 00:20:59best-in-class direct air capture which
- 00:21:01is on the order of about a thousand
- 00:21:03kilowatt hours um per ton and um uh some
- 00:21:07of the electrochemical carbon removal
- 00:21:09from seawater processes um our energy
- 00:21:13needs are even lower if we partner with
- 00:21:15facilities that already pump seaw water
- 00:21:16so those previous numbers that I showed
- 00:21:18you were um uh including the cost of of
- 00:21:23um all doing all our own seawater
- 00:21:25pumping ourselves our sort of projected
- 00:21:26energy needs for that as as well as
- 00:21:28inclusive of our projections for the
- 00:21:30needs for compression of CO2 um uh
- 00:21:33transport uh and transport of that CO2
- 00:21:37um uh so but our energy needs are even
- 00:21:40lower if we partner with facilities that
- 00:21:42already pump seawat um like I've
- 00:21:44mentioned thermoelectric power plants or
- 00:21:45Dell facilities and so those are real um
- 00:21:49those potential Partnerships are real
- 00:21:51beach head markets you know being able
- 00:21:52to use existing seawater pumping
- 00:21:54capacity is real Advantage because that
- 00:21:56we think that it can help us build out
- 00:21:57really quickly we as as we'll sort of
- 00:21:59share here our our energy Productions
- 00:22:02and our our base energy Productions and
- 00:22:04our costs our TAA uh assume that we're
- 00:22:07having to do our own pumping ourselves
- 00:22:08so we don't have to partner with the
- 00:22:10facilities but it's a real great Pathway
- 00:22:11to get to Market um um quickly um and to
- 00:22:15take advantage of the sort of embedded
- 00:22:17uh energy and infrastructure that
- 00:22:19already exists um so um uh we think that
- 00:22:26um uh
- 00:22:28uh because of our low energy advantage
- 00:22:30and because of the relatively simple
- 00:22:32design of our process we think that we
- 00:22:33can reach a levelized cost of $200 for
- 00:22:36so per ton removed if we continue to
- 00:22:37meet our milestones in our in our
- 00:22:39two-year plan and that includes the cost
- 00:22:41for all our own seawater pumping as I
- 00:22:42mentioned compression transport and also
- 00:22:44paying for geologic um
- 00:22:46sequestration um and we think that as we
- 00:22:49sort of uh uh develop our process and
- 00:22:51this is using the standard um uh uh this
- 00:22:55is both based on our process model as
- 00:22:56well as using the standard Lear learning
- 00:22:58curves that um uh Frontier supplies for
- 00:23:01evaluating uh their projects um we think
- 00:23:04that we can reach a cost of less than
- 00:23:06$100 at the one million ton per year um
- 00:23:10scale um with an entitlement cost for an
- 00:23:13nth of kind projected to be well under
- 00:23:15$100 per ton um and then um uh one of
- 00:23:20the real advantages of our process and
- 00:23:22this is because of its low energy needs
- 00:23:24also because of the net production of uh
- 00:23:26of green electricity
- 00:23:28um our um uh LCA uh predicts and and
- 00:23:33this is something you know that the lcas
- 00:23:34are always something that you're they
- 00:23:35continuing to to improve on but our LCA
- 00:23:38that we've tried to be pretty
- 00:23:39comprehensive with tried our best to
- 00:23:40sort of include scope one through three
- 00:23:42emissions um suggests a really high
- 00:23:44efficiency for um carbon uh removal that
- 00:23:48um out of the 90 90 or more percent of
- 00:23:52the carbon uh removed uh of the carbon
- 00:23:56captured would translate into carbon REM
- 00:23:59when considering these emissions and the
- 00:24:01benefit of our net um electricity
- 00:24:04generation so um this is uh this
- 00:24:08potential to have a really big impact to
- 00:24:11have a really low energy process um to
- 00:24:13have a process that is potentially
- 00:24:15affordable and and therefore you know
- 00:24:16one that's one of the key um gates for
- 00:24:18being scalable and and having Market ad
- 00:24:21option is is that that it's affordable
- 00:24:23and that it has this potential to have a
- 00:24:24real um strong efficiency or net impact
- 00:24:27on on climate was some of the reasons
- 00:24:29that made Julian and I step back from
- 00:24:31our faculty positions to really go all
- 00:24:33in on um trying to develop this
- 00:24:36technology because of the the potential
- 00:24:38to not just study and catalog the
- 00:24:40impacts of climate um that we've been
- 00:24:41doing in our academic careers but to
- 00:24:43really work on a technology that was
- 00:24:44fundamentally knew that no one else was
- 00:24:46doing and try to help bring that to
- 00:24:47Market to add to um this um uh
- 00:24:50collection of uh approaches that we're
- 00:24:52all trying to do to try to meet this
- 00:24:54really huge problem of of carbon removal
- 00:24:56so we feel really um honored and um
- 00:25:00lucky to have had developed a lot of
- 00:25:03great partners and had a lot of traction
- 00:25:05in in in this path um this journey of of
- 00:25:08commercializing this this company we
- 00:25:10started it just under um two years ago
- 00:25:13um and um have been really lucky for the
- 00:25:15support uh that we have um gained as
- 00:25:18activate fellows um and um had a first
- 00:25:22precede funding uh in May of uh 2022 and
- 00:25:26that was largely led by by Grantham
- 00:25:28foundation and then um uh we're really
- 00:25:30honored to be recognized by um Frontier
- 00:25:33with a pre- purchase agreement that was
- 00:25:35funded by stripe Shopify and hm group
- 00:25:38for uh uh delivering carbon uh 360 tons
- 00:25:41of carbon removal by
- 00:25:432026 um and um some of these have been
- 00:25:46announced some of these will be coming
- 00:25:47out shortly but we're also really
- 00:25:48honored to have had um non-diluted
- 00:25:51funding in Grants from National Science
- 00:25:52Foundation and the voucher program from
- 00:25:54um Department of energy and then um
- 00:25:58I can't share too many details about
- 00:25:59this yet but um we're really we have a
- 00:26:02we're able to put together a really
- 00:26:04incredible group of investors and
- 00:26:06recently closed a um seed fundraising
- 00:26:08round just at the end of 2023 and so
- 00:26:11standby for um hearing more
- 00:26:13announcements about that we're really
- 00:26:15excited about the team that we were able
- 00:26:17to put together um to tackle this
- 00:26:20problem and have a lot of energy and a
- 00:26:21lot of expertise that um really
- 00:26:23complimentary expertise that we think
- 00:26:24can help us commercialize and rapidly
- 00:26:27bring this um solution to um to Market
- 00:26:29and bring it um uh to help us do the
- 00:26:31engineering to really um uh deploy it so
- 00:26:35um none of this could be possible and
- 00:26:37our and without our team and our success
- 00:26:39is really entirely driven by the amazing
- 00:26:41team that we've been able to assemble to
- 00:26:43work on this problem and that's
- 00:26:44especially true of my co-founder um um
- 00:26:47Julian saaks um we're both uh faculty
- 00:26:51and chemical geography at the University
- 00:26:52of Washington but stepped back from that
- 00:26:55um position to be Allin on on developing
- 00:26:57this um and commercializing um this
- 00:26:59project and lucky that we've been able
- 00:27:01to attract some really amazing talent um
- 00:27:03uh as far as organic chemists and um
- 00:27:06oceanographers and chemists to help us
- 00:27:08develop this process so key for a bunch
- 00:27:10of the lab work that um we've done to
- 00:27:13date um uh our senior organic chemist we
- 00:27:17have uh and and our senior chemical
- 00:27:20oceanographer and and research
- 00:27:21scientists uh on our team we have great
- 00:27:23complimentary expertise but as we're
- 00:27:25developing this and bringing it the
- 00:27:27field we'll have a pilot demonstration
- 00:27:30um at the ton perear scale uh here in
- 00:27:332026 it's we're really focused on
- 00:27:35building out our engineering team and so
- 00:27:37we have open positions for director of
- 00:27:39engineering and mechanical engineering
- 00:27:40we'll soon post additional engineering
- 00:27:42positions and field tech position as
- 00:27:44well as a business development um
- 00:27:46position uh on our website so if you're
- 00:27:48excited by the challenge of uh working
- 00:27:51on on carbon removal um and hopefully
- 00:27:53I've inspired you about the potential
- 00:27:55promise of of our um of our process um
- 00:27:58please um reach out to us and uh and
- 00:28:01apply to these these positions we' we'd
- 00:28:03love to um we'd really love to talk with
- 00:28:05you um all of this uh work really uh is
- 00:28:08driven by passionate and and smart
- 00:28:11people and it's one of the great joys of
- 00:28:13working in this space is not just having
- 00:28:15a the potential to have a real impact
- 00:28:17for the planet um but also to be able to
- 00:28:19work with really creative and driven
- 00:28:20people so um I'll pause there and and
- 00:28:24really looking forward to the the
- 00:28:26questions from the from the
- 00:28:30group that was great Alex thank you so
- 00:28:32much um super exciting I think the
- 00:28:34sector at large is super excited about
- 00:28:36what you're working on and
- 00:28:37congratulations on all your early
- 00:28:39successes um one quick question point of
- 00:28:42clarification um I I hadn't realized
- 00:28:44this but your your your process does not
- 00:28:47require salinity so you don't need sea
- 00:28:50water you can work with any water source
- 00:28:51is that correct that's that's right
- 00:28:53there's um you know we we focus on
- 00:28:56natural Waters because many natural
- 00:28:58Waters seawat and many rivers but not
- 00:29:00all rivers or lakes have relatively High
- 00:29:03um dissolv in organic carbon there's
- 00:29:05some rivers that have even more
- 00:29:06dissolved in organic carbon than um sea
- 00:29:09water on a perv volume basis Rivers like
- 00:29:11the Mississippi the Columbia danu um uh
- 00:29:14can be a good source of of carbon
- 00:29:16renewal there's aspects of the process
- 00:29:18that change with salinity but but
- 00:29:20there's no fundamental reason that um
- 00:29:22our process can't work in in those
- 00:29:25settings um excellent thank you
- 00:29:28uh you the you know your idea is one of
- 00:29:30those sort of Science Fiction sounding
- 00:29:32ideas capturing carbon with light um can
- 00:29:33you talk a little bit about your
- 00:29:34intellectual Journey like how you
- 00:29:36started researching photo acids and then
- 00:29:38when it occurred to you that wow I can
- 00:29:40use this for carbon removal and then
- 00:29:41maybe a little bit about how you and
- 00:29:42Julian got together to form the company
- 00:29:45yeah yeah so I'll start from the from
- 00:29:46the end there because I think that's
- 00:29:47really the journey so Julian and I you
- 00:29:49know faculty that work together and
- 00:29:51we've been collaborators for almost a
- 00:29:52decade since 2014 and um we've worked
- 00:29:55primarily together on the impacts of
- 00:29:57ocean acidification on marine life and
- 00:29:59and coral reefs and so we had a study
- 00:30:01site in the in the South Pacific um that
- 00:30:04we've been working closely on uh
- 00:30:06together with and worked with a bunch of
- 00:30:07students uh and scientists out there and
- 00:30:09as part of that project we were
- 00:30:11developing a sort of started to shift
- 00:30:14into more engineering we were trying to
- 00:30:15test the impacts of ocean acidification
- 00:30:18the conditions that sort of near end of
- 00:30:20century on a patch of reef and because
- 00:30:22of this we were having to transfer lots
- 00:30:23of carbon dioxide into and out of um
- 00:30:27seawater and as we were sort of there
- 00:30:30working working in the field um you know
- 00:30:32South Pacific sunsets you know lead to
- 00:30:35really good sort of conversations we
- 00:30:37sort of started framing this question of
- 00:30:39okay what if we were try to scale this
- 00:30:40up even larger you know we've been sort
- 00:30:42of trying to understand what it would
- 00:30:44take to move carbon in and out of
- 00:30:45seawater a massive scale what if we
- 00:30:46could sort of turn this on its head and
- 00:30:48try to use this as a carbon removal
- 00:30:50process what would be required and we
- 00:30:52really focused on the fact that that
- 00:30:53temporary acidification step is high
- 00:30:55energy and it's awkward what would would
- 00:30:57sort of the class what what would be a
- 00:30:59new solution to try to solve and rewrite
- 00:31:01the energetics of that process and so
- 00:31:03drawing on the organic chemistry
- 00:31:05experience of Julian and and the Aquatic
- 00:31:07chemistry experience that I have we sort
- 00:31:09of were really searching for we could we
- 00:31:11had sort of defined what we need it and
- 00:31:14we got lucky that there had been recent
- 00:31:16advances in photo acids so photo acids
- 00:31:18have been around for 50 plus years a
- 00:31:21molecules that when you shine light on
- 00:31:22them they become acidic but prior to
- 00:31:24about 10 years ago um they recombined or
- 00:31:28so that they made acidity but then they
- 00:31:29recombined so quickly that they didn't
- 00:31:32have there was no time for that proton
- 00:31:34to do work and about a decade ago there
- 00:31:36were some major advances in photo acids
- 00:31:38that allowed them to stick for to stick
- 00:31:40around in their acidic State long enough
- 00:31:42for them to do work and these had been
- 00:31:44applied mostly in the biomedical and
- 00:31:46materials um fields and we recognized oh
- 00:31:49man this is a perfect fit for our
- 00:31:51problem and then that sort of really one
- 00:31:53thing led to the next and we're really
- 00:31:55lucky to get a lot of support from our
- 00:31:57University who saw commercialization as
- 00:31:59one way to have uh as just an extension
- 00:32:01of our mission to have a positive impact
- 00:32:03on the planet really supported us to
- 00:32:05take this um commercialization journey
- 00:32:07and activate really helped us sort of
- 00:32:09try to challenge us to grow as quickly
- 00:32:11as a company grows entrepreneurs as
- 00:32:13quickly as our company has grow got it
- 00:32:15that's great thank you um couple
- 00:32:17questions about the the photo acid feed
- 00:32:19stock um so you said that a few
- 00:32:22kilograms per ton of CO2 capture um so I
- 00:32:26might think of that as Maybe a
- 00:32:2705% factor so like on a million tons you
- 00:32:31might have is that cumulative over the
- 00:32:33course of a year so if I if you if you
- 00:32:35do a million tons of capture over the
- 00:32:36course of a year from a facility you
- 00:32:38will have 5,000 tons of uh residue photo
- 00:32:44acid yeah so uh there's a really good
- 00:32:47question and let me clarify a few
- 00:32:48aspects of that you're you're you're
- 00:32:50pretty much spot on but it it would help
- 00:32:51to dig into the details for you and for
- 00:32:54the audience here so um we project with
- 00:32:56our current sort process model that we
- 00:32:58need about at steady state per ton per
- 00:33:01year capacity of a facility we need at
- 00:33:04steady state about 400 400 grams call
- 00:33:06that a half a kilogram um of photo acid
- 00:33:09so that's photo acid that's cycling
- 00:33:10around in the system kept separate from
- 00:33:12seawater being exposed to sunlight being
- 00:33:14reused over and over and over again but
- 00:33:17photo acids degrade through a known
- 00:33:19pathway where they hydrolize they split
- 00:33:21into into two pieces and so if you work
- 00:33:25with the the amount of photo acid that
- 00:33:28you need for your process and then
- 00:33:29account for this degradation process
- 00:33:32that means per ton of CO2 removed we
- 00:33:35project that you would need about two
- 00:33:36about two kilograms of photo acid would
- 00:33:39be
- 00:33:40consumed and and that's sort of the the
- 00:33:42the sort of factor that that that you're
- 00:33:44talking about however um that we got
- 00:33:47really lucky in that the degradation
- 00:33:49pathway the way that the photo acid
- 00:33:51comes apart is yields two pieces two two
- 00:33:56molecules and those are the two same
- 00:33:58molecules that are used during the last
- 00:33:59step of synthesis and we've shown in lab
- 00:34:02that you can recover the photo acid from
- 00:34:05uh the process stream and recombine them
- 00:34:08to remake the molecule and so that's not
- 00:34:10directly part of our tea and we still
- 00:34:13have to uh evaluate whether you know the
- 00:34:16cost benefit of recycling the photo acid
- 00:34:19outweighs synthesis of new um photo acid
- 00:34:22so there's important work to be done
- 00:34:23there but that there's a pathway to
- 00:34:25recycle reuse that photo acid um as well
- 00:34:28so we got really luck there some
- 00:34:29degradation some processes when they
- 00:34:31degrade they turn into junk in our case
- 00:34:33it's it's a really product that can be
- 00:34:35recycled so there's so it's possible
- 00:34:37that Innovation and science could lead
- 00:34:38us to a point where you have a fully
- 00:34:40looping process yeah I mean it is um the
- 00:34:43the photo acid is not consumed the only
- 00:34:44reason that it's consumed is because of
- 00:34:46degradation just like any process you
- 00:34:48know electrodes and an electrochemical
- 00:34:49system degrade over time we just are
- 00:34:51trying to be as comprehensive in our
- 00:34:53view of thinking about inputs and
- 00:34:55outputs and so this degradation pathway
- 00:34:57is really important and and without that
- 00:34:59Innovation am I in the right order of
- 00:35:01magnitude that you might have 5,000 tons
- 00:35:05of waste residue photo acid per million
- 00:35:08tons of capture like is that right might
- 00:35:11yeah that that that's uh well it's it's
- 00:35:15about two kilograms per ton um and so it
- 00:35:19feels like if it's a million was it is
- 00:35:22it
- 00:35:232,000 per million there yeah yeah anyway
- 00:35:26sorry yes I your mental math you're
- 00:35:29you're further along in your day I was
- 00:35:30being a little conservative of 05% not
- 00:35:3202 okay great you might have a small
- 00:35:35amount and is this a toxic material like
- 00:35:37what would you if you had to get rid of
- 00:35:38it what would what would you it's really
- 00:35:40common to to the the form of this is
- 00:35:43really common to um textile the the
- 00:35:46structure is really similar to um
- 00:35:48textile dieses and one of the
- 00:35:50degradation products of the molecule is
- 00:35:52actually a FDA approved flavorant um um
- 00:35:55and so we're you know as we're
- 00:35:57developing we are developing new and
- 00:35:59advanced photo acids um to improve their
- 00:36:02performance and so you know important
- 00:36:04work needs to be done to to be really
- 00:36:06sure about the the environmental impact
- 00:36:09if there were ever a leak of of these
- 00:36:11photo acids and to really assess um uh
- 00:36:14the toxicology of these things so so
- 00:36:16that is important work that that needs
- 00:36:18to continue to be done um but in our LCA
- 00:36:21and when we think about our tea um the
- 00:36:24burning with heat recovery of any waste
- 00:36:26because the waste stream is is really
- 00:36:27small um compared to the carbon removal
- 00:36:31um that's accounted for as an emissions
- 00:36:33and cost and in our TAA yeah and and the
- 00:36:37photo acid is kept separate from the
- 00:36:40seawater or water by membranes is that
- 00:36:43correct the photo acid is is kept
- 00:36:45separate from sea water through an ion
- 00:36:46exchange process when we first developed
- 00:36:48this process our first prototype on the
- 00:36:50bench toop we pulled off the shelf
- 00:36:52components just to you know make sure
- 00:36:54that the process worked as expected and
- 00:36:56that all the pieces sort of work
- 00:36:58together and for that we used membranes
- 00:37:00for this process but we quickly realized
- 00:37:02you know that was sort of a proof of
- 00:37:03concept um on Prototype uh about a year
- 00:37:07or so ago and um we quickly realized
- 00:37:10that membranes are expensive there's
- 00:37:12biofouling it's just uh not as
- 00:37:15commercializable not as scalable
- 00:37:17approach and so one of the things that
- 00:37:18our team worked really hard on and that
- 00:37:20we were successful in doing was
- 00:37:21developing a a version of the process
- 00:37:24where we don't use membranes for for
- 00:37:27that ion exchange process we rely on
- 00:37:29another um industrially scalable really
- 00:37:31widely used ion exchange process to
- 00:37:34separate um the the ions from from
- 00:37:37seawater and sorry I can't dig a little
- 00:37:39too much that's IP that's your IP is
- 00:37:42this non-membrane separation mechanism
- 00:37:46and the hydrogen ions or protons I'm not
- 00:37:48sure if my terminology is correct can
- 00:37:50cross this separation layer and then
- 00:37:52return that's right that's right kind of
- 00:37:55one another neat aspect of this is we're
- 00:37:56able to sort of actually uh sort of um
- 00:38:00separate we can separate in time and
- 00:38:03space the um the accumulation of those
- 00:38:07protons from um from when we have to use
- 00:38:11from when we're acidifying seawater so
- 00:38:13this means that we can charge up a bunch
- 00:38:15of protons during daylight hours and
- 00:38:17then discharge them
- 00:38:18continuously um in uh seawater 247 that
- 00:38:22helps our capex in sort of operational
- 00:38:25aspects means we're a little bit more
- 00:38:26buffered from sunlight you know a cloud
- 00:38:28passing in front of the Sun and things
- 00:38:30like that got it um there are people who
- 00:38:33are smarter than I am who asked some
- 00:38:34questions about this in the in the Q&A
- 00:38:36so I'm going to leave the rest to them
- 00:38:38and move on to a new topic um and just a
- 00:38:40reminder we are going to do audience
- 00:38:41questions we are not going to be able to
- 00:38:42answer audience questions that are in
- 00:38:43the chat because it gets too confusing
- 00:38:45so if you have questions please put them
- 00:38:46in the Q&A box and if you put them in
- 00:38:48the chat can you just copy them to the
- 00:38:49Q&A box and we'll get to as many as
- 00:38:52possible um can we talk about so the the
- 00:38:56form factor of your photo reactor I
- 00:38:59believe you said is one meter by 1.7
- 00:39:02meters so 1.7 square meters I think um
- 00:39:06how much capture does that module do
- 00:39:09like I want to what I want to get to is
- 00:39:11like how much land you required how much
- 00:39:14land is a Megaton totally you this you
- 00:39:17in a couple years are your future
- 00:39:19Megaton scale deployment like how much
- 00:39:21land will that use yeah exactly so um uh
- 00:39:25we uh that we need per ton per year
- 00:39:28capacity about four four and a half
- 00:39:30square square meters of area and our
- 00:39:32form factors because most of the area of
- 00:39:34our processed is collecting sunlight it
- 00:39:36looks a lot like a solar collection
- 00:39:39facility that um uh so that sort of
- 00:39:42gives you an idea of of sort of what
- 00:39:44we're looking at here and so for a
- 00:39:45thousand ton Pere facility um that uh we
- 00:39:50expect to need about one American
- 00:39:52football field um of area for our
- 00:39:54process that's about 1.3 Acres right and
- 00:39:56so if that's a thousand then a million
- 00:39:58would be you know scale scale that by 10
- 00:40:01to the 3 so okay help us out here so so
- 00:40:04so it's it's it's so so a th000 tons is
- 00:40:09an acre 400ish square meters um wait
- 00:40:134,000 square yeah 4,000 square meters
- 00:40:154,000 square meters y that's right okay
- 00:40:17so per hectare okay so what's a million
- 00:40:19tons that means a million times that is
- 00:40:22or a thousand a thousand times that
- 00:40:24because that was a thousand tons per so
- 00:40:26tons is an acre so a million tons is a
- 00:40:28million acres is a thousand acres yeah
- 00:40:30sorry Thousand Acres duh yeah yeah yeah
- 00:40:32and that and hectares so that's 2 point
- 00:40:34okay so all right a thousand acres per
- 00:40:39Megaton and I think what what is
- 00:40:42important when sort of comparing to
- 00:40:43other processes is we have integrated
- 00:40:46into our process the um uh energy
- 00:40:49production of our processing so if you
- 00:40:52were to compare apples to apples I think
- 00:40:53it's useful to compare our process to
- 00:40:55the footprint of say a DAC process
- 00:40:58that's also has captive solar so like
- 00:41:00what would the total area be with
- 00:41:02captive solar and so if you use sort of
- 00:41:03the area projections for a DAC facility
- 00:41:06from the national Academy's 2019 study
- 00:41:08and include the the um uh captive solar
- 00:41:11that would required to process to to um
- 00:41:14provide the energy facility about a
- 00:41:16tenth of the area requirements as as
- 00:41:19daak now there's obviously more
- 00:41:21flexibility and sort of the different
- 00:41:23ways that energy could be pulled off the
- 00:41:25grid to support stack um um and so that
- 00:41:28area footprint expands or contracts and
- 00:41:31can go depending upon what your energy
- 00:41:33source is but I think in a really
- 00:41:34important aspect of our process is that
- 00:41:36um uh as designed uh it doesn't pull
- 00:41:39energy Off the Grid it doesn't complete
- 00:41:41with Greening the grid um it produces
- 00:41:44green energy in net right and so so with
- 00:41:47with this footprint you it's inclusive
- 00:41:49of your energy requirements plus you're
- 00:41:51generating 250 kilowatt hours with
- 00:41:54without if you have to handle your own
- 00:41:56water handling for ton that's right
- 00:41:58that's right that's what we're
- 00:41:59projecting y
- 00:42:01um yeah this is one of those that like
- 00:42:03it sounds amazing sounds almost too good
- 00:42:04to be true like what are the things um
- 00:42:06we're going to move on to audience
- 00:42:07questions in a second but what are what
- 00:42:08are the big risks in your mind like
- 00:42:11what's and what so you've presented a
- 00:42:13thesis for how this is going to work and
- 00:42:14how this is going to be amazing and
- 00:42:15deliver gigaton scale CDR in the next
- 00:42:18whatever 10 or 15 years um what are some
- 00:42:20of the things that can go wrong what
- 00:42:22keeps you up at night like what do you
- 00:42:23think are the biggest risks to you and
- 00:42:25the you and Jo and the team to scaling
- 00:42:27this yeah I think some of the things
- 00:42:29that keep me up at night are probably
- 00:42:30things that keep a lot of us up at night
- 00:42:32it's just the the scale of the problem
- 00:42:33that we're talking about is massive
- 00:42:35right and the speed with which we need
- 00:42:37to um reach these goals is is really
- 00:42:41fast right where you know to to have a
- 00:42:43climate impact um and so thinking about
- 00:42:46how do we build a team out quickly
- 00:42:49enough and and so that we can really
- 00:42:51deploy this on time scales that we need
- 00:42:53for climate is is one of the things that
- 00:42:55I think J and I spend the most time sort
- 00:42:57of thinking about how are we how are we
- 00:42:59doing this this quickly enough how are
- 00:43:00we building this and you just sometimes
- 00:43:03there's moments where you take a step
- 00:43:05back and you're thinking man this is a
- 00:43:06massive whether your direct air capture
- 00:43:08or direct ocean capture these are
- 00:43:10massive amounts of fluids that we're
- 00:43:12talking about whether it's air water
- 00:43:13that we're talking about right it's it's
- 00:43:15just a lot of water and it helps
- 00:43:17reassure me when I have those moments
- 00:43:19that I wake up in the middle night and
- 00:43:20I'm like oh my gosh what are we trying
- 00:43:22to do here um it helps me to compare
- 00:43:24that to the amounts of of water that are
- 00:43:26already being processed right so like a
- 00:43:28a we project that for a million ton
- 00:43:31facility um uh that that takes about the
- 00:43:34seawater handling capacity of two of the
- 00:43:37largest existing seawater processing
- 00:43:40facilities like the jabale facility in
- 00:43:42um Saudi Arabia um uh processes enough
- 00:43:45seawater daily to have a capacity of
- 00:43:47500,000 tons per of CO2 using our
- 00:43:51process and that's that's conservatively
- 00:43:52assuming we're only removing 50% of thec
- 00:43:55not 100% from DIC removal and Beyond
- 00:43:58this sort of massive scale challenge
- 00:44:00that I think everyone in carbon removal
- 00:44:01faces are are there any do you feel like
- 00:44:04there any technology risks
- 00:44:05technoeconomic risks social acceptance
- 00:44:07risk that you're particularly concerned
- 00:44:09about or do you feel like those are all
- 00:44:11managed manageable yeah no I mean I
- 00:44:13don't think that what we're trying to do
- 00:44:15is tough we're developing a quick we're
- 00:44:17developing a new technology and trying
- 00:44:18to deploy it quickly it's sort of like
- 00:44:20the moonshot or the Manhattan Project at
- 00:44:22the same time as doing the you know the
- 00:44:23US Highway um system All In like a
- 00:44:26really short period of time so there's a
- 00:44:27ton of technical issues that we think a
- 00:44:29lot about we're trying to Marshall our
- 00:44:30team to work on those you know photo
- 00:44:32acid performance improvements really
- 00:44:33make a difference extending the the
- 00:44:36lifetime of the of the photo acid um
- 00:44:39there's a bunch of commercially used
- 00:44:41molecules that are really similar that
- 00:44:43have lifetimes of two years we think
- 00:44:44there's a path there um and um there's
- 00:44:47been some recent great work that's sort
- 00:44:48of in our lab and and elsewhere that has
- 00:44:50shown that we can extend a life that
- 00:44:52really helps our tea so I think there's
- 00:44:54a bunch of things that we are really
- 00:44:55focusing that we know we need to achieve
- 00:44:57to get from here to there but we think
- 00:44:59that we have paths for for most of those
- 00:45:02you bring up Social acceptance I think
- 00:45:04that's obviously really really really
- 00:45:06important you know I I talked about the
- 00:45:08the buildout of the interstate highway
- 00:45:10system you know when that was done it
- 00:45:11separated communities there's been after
- 00:45:13effects of that that um you know we're
- 00:45:15still feeling and as we develop this
- 00:45:17completely new industry we have to
- 00:45:19deploy in a way where the communities
- 00:45:21that are most impacted by climate change
- 00:45:22are receiving the benefits of this of
- 00:45:25this new industry and that's that's a
- 00:45:27that's an added really important
- 00:45:28challenge that we take really seriously
- 00:45:29know the reason Julian and I stepped
- 00:45:31away from our academic roles was to have
- 00:45:33a positive impact on the planet that
- 00:45:34means positive impact on the planet
- 00:45:36positive impact on ecosystems pos
- 00:45:37positive impact on um on on people um
- 00:45:41right and so um I think that that is a
- 00:45:43whole question itself we can we can
- 00:45:45delve deeper this I want to provide some
- 00:45:48time for um for for question questions
- 00:45:51but we think that we have some aspects
- 00:45:52of our process the fact that we don't
- 00:45:53pull from the grid that we're a good
- 00:45:56member of the community we can put
- 00:45:57energy back in the that allows us to
- 00:45:59site in maybe places that are not as
- 00:46:01close to Services as others which means
- 00:46:03that we could bring jobs and
- 00:46:05infrastructure to communities that are
- 00:46:06usually disserved uh um otherwise
- 00:46:09underserved um we think there's a bunch
- 00:46:11of advantages to our process that might
- 00:46:12help with that but it's a big
- 00:46:14challenge amen yes um well great answer
- 00:46:17thank you just one quick thing before we
- 00:46:19move to audience questions actually too
- 00:46:20um did you say just to like your sort of
- 00:46:22like optimistic scaling
- 00:46:26um schedule did you say a ton of year in
- 00:46:302026 yeah um we um hope to have a pilot
- 00:46:34in 2024 that's at the one ton per year
- 00:46:38capacity um and then we have a pre-
- 00:46:41purchase agreement with Frontier to
- 00:46:42deliver 360 tons by end of
- 00:46:452026 um and um you know we have really
- 00:46:49ambitious Milestones to be building out
- 00:46:52um capacity dramatically and what are
- 00:46:54the what are the sort of op
- 00:46:56optimistic Milestone years for 10,000
- 00:47:00tons and a million tons um yeah yeah I
- 00:47:03mean I I think that we hope to um get to
- 00:47:07the 10,000 tons uh in the late 2020s
- 00:47:132030 I think all of us are trying to
- 00:47:15scale to all of us are trying to scale
- 00:47:17to a million tons to hundreds of million
- 00:47:18tons as fast as we can got it excellent
- 00:47:21um and one other with we have so many
- 00:47:24audience questions do you have do you
- 00:47:25have a hard stop at the top of the hour
- 00:47:26or could you stay an extra five minutes
- 00:47:28to do a few more questions be happy I'd
- 00:47:29be happy we'll do that then um great
- 00:47:32well thank you so much and mega do you
- 00:47:33want to up
- 00:47:35on hey yes we do have tons of questions
- 00:47:38um I'm just going to start with one we
- 00:47:39got a couple of questions about membrane
- 00:47:41so um basically asking how is the proton
- 00:47:44harvested and returned to the photo acid
- 00:47:46pool without cross-contaminating
- 00:47:48cross-contaminating the seawater um and
- 00:47:51other things with other chemistry um so
- 00:47:53yeah are you using membranes and can you
- 00:47:55just talk a little bit about how that's
- 00:47:56implemented if so yeah so effectively
- 00:47:58what what the problem is that you have
- 00:48:00to do an ion exchange process you have
- 00:48:02to get protons in and out of seawater
- 00:48:04for charge balance there's cations I
- 00:48:06that are moving back uh back you know in
- 00:48:08in cations like sodium that are moving
- 00:48:10um in the opposite sort of pathway so
- 00:48:12fundamentally what the problem is an ion
- 00:48:14exchange process and membranes have a
- 00:48:16bunch of advantages in in in doing this
- 00:48:18that's what our first off-the-shelf
- 00:48:21prototype uh proof of of principle um uh
- 00:48:25system used we quickly saw that that was
- 00:48:29not the most cost-effective way to go
- 00:48:31and we put a lot of energy into
- 00:48:33developing alternative approaches we um
- 00:48:35explored a bunch of different ways that
- 00:48:37are used at an industrial scale um to do
- 00:48:40the ion exchange process and our process
- 00:48:43now relies on on one of those approaches
- 00:48:45sorry I can't delve too much more uh in
- 00:48:48into those details uh uh at this time um
- 00:48:51but uh what I've been really happy with
- 00:48:53what we've done as a team is we've moved
- 00:48:55from that proof for principle to a
- 00:48:56prototype that uses all uh industrially
- 00:48:59scalable approaches now okay got it um
- 00:49:03and is that so is that like is there are
- 00:49:06you able to talk a little bit about the
- 00:49:07sort of change in PH that happens from
- 00:49:10like the the starting point to the uh
- 00:49:13undersaturated seaw water that you've
- 00:49:14released at the end of it yeah uh I see
- 00:49:18so less the the photo acid I don't think
- 00:49:21this is question but you know the photo
- 00:49:23acid um uh changes its PKA by by three
- 00:49:27so it's a thousandfold change in in
- 00:49:28acidification what I think the
- 00:49:30questioner is asking about is what is
- 00:49:32the change in PH between a natural fluid
- 00:49:34going into the process treat your
- 00:49:35process as a black box what is the pH
- 00:49:38coming out of the process and that's
- 00:49:39sort of fundamental um aspect of aquatic
- 00:49:43chemistry or or how um uh the
- 00:49:45relationship between dissolved carbon
- 00:49:48and pH in cat that is true irrespective
- 00:49:51of which process um you're using so just
- 00:49:54treat Direct carbon removal as a black
- 00:49:56box whether it's us or an
- 00:49:58electrochemical process if we're not
- 00:50:00adding anything you know that's I think
- 00:50:01a big advantage of our process is we're
- 00:50:02not doing ocean alcaline enhancement
- 00:50:04we're not we're not adding any material
- 00:50:06to se water we're pulling out carbon
- 00:50:07dioxide so if you have a process just
- 00:50:09pulls out carbon dioxide then pulling
- 00:50:12out carbon dioxide is like the opposite
- 00:50:13of ocean acidification right during
- 00:50:15ocean acidification extra carbon dioxide
- 00:50:16goes into seaw water makes it more
- 00:50:17acidic if you just pull out carbon
- 00:50:19dioxide you make your your pH more basic
- 00:50:22um and so if a uh the sea water that's
- 00:50:26immediately released by our process will
- 00:50:28have a pH that's elevated compared to
- 00:50:31the sea water coming into the process
- 00:50:32that's just a result of the chemical the
- 00:50:36chemistry of um carbon dissolved in
- 00:50:38seawat um and so the extent with which
- 00:50:41you pull carbon dioxide out of the
- 00:50:43process will determine what that pH is
- 00:50:46now our process we've demonstrated on
- 00:50:47the benchtop can remove
- 00:50:5097% um of the of we can remove 90% of
- 00:50:55the C CO2 um from the incoming seawat
- 00:50:57but that leads to too high of pH
- 00:50:59processes there's some other aspects of
- 00:51:00our process that are more efficient when
- 00:51:02we just remove 50% of of our seawater
- 00:51:05and so that leads to a a pH um so the pH
- 00:51:08can kind of be dialed in by how much um
- 00:51:11uh of the of the carbon that you removed
- 00:51:13through your process that's a balance
- 00:51:15between technoeconomics and sort of how
- 00:51:17quickly you think that pH will be mixed
- 00:51:19and dissipate um uh in the in the
- 00:51:21surrounding environment so if you pull
- 00:51:23if you pull 50% of the
- 00:51:26um DIC from seawater that leads to a pH
- 00:51:28of 9.5 if you pull less you would have
- 00:51:30lower pH okay so it's kind of a function
- 00:51:33of how you control the process of salt
- 00:51:34like a thing that's right and and the
- 00:51:36reason that you wouldn't go to too high
- 00:51:38of pH um is in part that you don't want
- 00:51:41to cause precipitation of carbonates or
- 00:51:43magnesium hydroxide or other minerals
- 00:51:45that would mess with the process that
- 00:51:46can sometimes be an issue in
- 00:51:47electrochemical process where locally
- 00:51:48you make really really extreme phes um
- 00:51:51um our process doesn't do that um and so
- 00:51:55uh we keep think we can keep our pH
- 00:51:57within bounds that are both technically
- 00:52:00useful and ecologically appropriate okay
- 00:52:03yeah someone did ask is precipitation a
- 00:52:04problem but I guess is it just the case
- 00:52:06that you can control for that and keep
- 00:52:08that from being a problem that's right
- 00:52:10that's right you can keep the pH because
- 00:52:11we never reach too low of phes in our
- 00:52:14process um and um um the exiting
- 00:52:18seawater doesn't really reach the
- 00:52:20threshold where nucleation of those
- 00:52:22minerals uh is an issue you can sort of
- 00:52:24you can take sea water and titrate ph up
- 00:52:27to 9.5 you won't see any murkiness um a
- 00:52:29former graduate student uh worked a lot
- 00:52:32on nucleation rates in in seawater so we
- 00:52:34have some pretty good bounds on that got
- 00:52:36it okay and then sort of on the flip
- 00:52:37side someone asked could you
- 00:52:39intentionally drive up the ph and try to
- 00:52:41precipitate calcium carbonate so that
- 00:52:42you don't have to deal with the storage
- 00:52:44side is that possible way of doing this
- 00:52:46yeah so precipitation that's that's an
- 00:52:49important question to address
- 00:52:51precipitation of calcium carbonate from
- 00:52:52seawater with no other inputs leads to a
- 00:52:57loss of alkalinity from the surface
- 00:52:58ocean it's like the opposite of Al of
- 00:53:00ocean alkalinity enhancement so in net
- 00:53:02you're drawing down alkalinity which
- 00:53:04affects the acidbase chemistry of water
- 00:53:06in such a way that actually puts CO2
- 00:53:08into the atmosphere so if not properly
- 00:53:11balanced by other inputs in the system
- 00:53:14precipitation of calcium carbonate
- 00:53:15through a high high pH will actually do
- 00:53:19kind of the opposite of of what we want
- 00:53:21there's some creative approaches that
- 00:53:22have another alkalinity source to
- 00:53:24balance that so you can sort of you can
- 00:53:26bring some pieces together to overcome
- 00:53:28some of those challenges but um that's a
- 00:53:30reason why precipitation of calcium
- 00:53:31carbonate through our process is not
- 00:53:33likely to have the intended benefit that
- 00:53:35I think the the questioner sort of was
- 00:53:38uh you know asking yeah makes a lot of
- 00:53:41sense okay um I know you talked about
- 00:53:43you know potentially using seaw water
- 00:53:45versus fresh water earlier um someone
- 00:53:47was asking if you could use cooling
- 00:53:48tower water um since it's being pumped
- 00:53:50anyway and also CO2 saturated most
- 00:53:53probably um is that something you could
- 00:53:55consider as a beach Head Market um
- 00:53:57adding on to power plants yeah we
- 00:53:59haven't we haven't looked into that
- 00:54:00there's some really Seattle based
- 00:54:02there's some really Seattle B cool
- 00:54:04Seattle based approaches that are that
- 00:54:06are taking advantage of um of uh cooling
- 00:54:08water um and you know I think that's a
- 00:54:10really creative way to be able to to
- 00:54:12work with existing infrastructure um um
- 00:54:15I think that uh we haven't looked at
- 00:54:17that into detail it's a great suggestion
- 00:54:20um uh
- 00:54:22yeah cool um all right have still lotss
- 00:54:26of questions um but I'll try to get to a
- 00:54:28few more so are there any other
- 00:54:30compounds or like nutrients or anything
- 00:54:32else that's in the environment that
- 00:54:33changes form when it gets acidified that
- 00:54:35you might have to be concerned about you
- 00:54:37know with respect to ecolog ecological
- 00:54:39effects um as you're as you're carrying
- 00:54:41out your process yeah yeah it's
- 00:54:44important you know the bigger question
- 00:54:46of making sure that you're a good
- 00:54:48ecological Steward you know something
- 00:54:50that that we think a lot about and
- 00:54:52chemical oceanographers people that
- 00:54:53study the ocean right that's really
- 00:54:54centered to our heart um the specific
- 00:54:57question of are there pH are there are
- 00:54:59there um uh nutrients for instance that
- 00:55:03might change their form um as a function
- 00:55:06of pH there are some forms for instance
- 00:55:09of nitrogen like ammonia that are you
- 00:55:10know pH sensitive um in some of these
- 00:55:13ranges I don't think that uh is likely
- 00:55:17to be a major impact in our process and
- 00:55:21and I don't dismiss that um uh you know
- 00:55:24uh I'm not being dismissive of that I
- 00:55:26think it's an important question but I
- 00:55:27think the the aspects of our process are
- 00:55:30that we produce low pH water but the
- 00:55:32ocean mix it so darn quickly I mean this
- 00:55:34is part of the challenge with mrv
- 00:55:35actually measuring the pH difference
- 00:55:37once this the the outflow mixes with the
- 00:55:40environment even measuring the pH
- 00:55:42difference is a challenge that's why
- 00:55:43modeling is such an important part of of
- 00:55:45um of mrv for for um all these um
- 00:55:49ocean-based approaches that the likely
- 00:55:51impact on um on nutrients like nitrogen
- 00:55:54nutrients uh um is is is unlikely to be
- 00:55:57a big deal the main nitrogen containing
- 00:55:59nutrient nitrate is unlikely to be
- 00:56:01affected by acid based chemistry right
- 00:56:03okay um right we had a few questions
- 00:56:06about I guess the use of photofil take
- 00:56:08so are you g to use you know anything
- 00:56:10off the shelf for PV or do you have to
- 00:56:12develop this in a specific way to kind
- 00:56:13of integrate it with the photo reactor
- 00:56:15that you have um and relatedly do you
- 00:56:17foresee any kind of supply chain issues
- 00:56:19around procuring that at scale yeah
- 00:56:21that's a really that's a really good
- 00:56:23question um uh you know I think one of
- 00:56:25the the key engineering challenges that
- 00:56:28we're building our team around um and
- 00:56:30that you know we've been really trying
- 00:56:32to articulate and solve is how do we
- 00:56:35build this in a way that can be deployed
- 00:56:37rapidly so it can be assembled by labor
- 00:56:39that's going to be available in the
- 00:56:40community um and they can be assembled
- 00:56:42rapidly and at scale for the cost
- 00:56:44targets that we need and the solar
- 00:56:46industry has developed how how to build
- 00:56:48solar Farms really effectively at scale
- 00:56:51it's kind of impressive right you know
- 00:56:53it's a real inspiration for wow this
- 00:56:54this a field that started at high cost
- 00:56:56can transition to having a real impact
- 00:56:58on the planet so there's a mo there's a
- 00:57:00there's a modality there's a form factor
- 00:57:02of our system where we bolt on we
- 00:57:04literally you know are trying to design
- 00:57:05our system to bolt onto existing solar
- 00:57:07panels um and in which case we can
- 00:57:10hopefully take advantage of a bunch of
- 00:57:11that that infrastructure and so that in
- 00:57:13that case the engineering design would
- 00:57:14be how do you do that in a way that's
- 00:57:16really scalable um uh that it's
- 00:57:20resilient um that it doesn't uh you know
- 00:57:23invalidate uh any warrant
- 00:57:25and you know that it's very bankable
- 00:57:26that it can sort of plug into project
- 00:57:28financing um so that's one mode on the
- 00:57:31other hand we have to move fluids and
- 00:57:32that's a pretty dispersed system and so
- 00:57:34we have sort of competing teams or
- 00:57:36competing um modalities that we're
- 00:57:38working on for how to deploy the solar
- 00:57:40component and one one mode that we're
- 00:57:42working with is solar concentration and
- 00:57:44that involves a little bit more of uh
- 00:57:46our own design of how to integrate photo
- 00:57:49voltaics and the trade-offs there really
- 00:57:51cost benefit in engineering and R how
- 00:57:53quickly we deploy where whether we do
- 00:57:56um whether we integrate into our own
- 00:57:59design or whether we're able to piggy
- 00:58:00back on photov voltaics and that really
- 00:58:02comes down to costs and deployment and
- 00:58:04is a place that um we're working
- 00:58:06actively um to solve that problem and uh
- 00:58:10working hard to develop our team of
- 00:58:13employees and Consultants to help us
- 00:58:15solve that problem okay got it um and
- 00:58:18then just thinking about you know at the
- 00:58:20end of the process so you want to store
- 00:58:22the carbon dioxide have you thought
- 00:58:23about what mode of storage you're go for
- 00:58:25um and this person specifically asked
- 00:58:27are you looking at gas or liquid phase
- 00:58:28distribution but maybe just more
- 00:58:30generally as well yeah yeah so R TAA
- 00:58:33assumes compression of CO2 to Super
- 00:58:35critical form and transport through
- 00:58:37through pipelines and the sort of
- 00:58:39typical cost of geologic sequestration
- 00:58:42um our process is well adapted to um um
- 00:58:47uh different sort of uh also being able
- 00:58:50to produce CO2 in in aquous form that
- 00:58:53could be used for mineralization our
- 00:58:55sort of read on things is that
- 00:58:56mineralization is this incredible
- 00:58:58resource and and is definitely going to
- 00:58:59be a major part of sort of the way that
- 00:59:01things go forward but maybe a little bit
- 00:59:03behind the geologic sequestration of
- 00:59:05supercritical CO2 um um but um would
- 00:59:08love to talk with people to get get
- 00:59:10smarter um about that so we tried to
- 00:59:12sort of pick what we think is the most
- 00:59:14costly or most likely to be deployed
- 00:59:15Deployable um most immediately which is
- 00:59:18geologic sequestration of super critical
- 00:59:20um um CO2 but I think that you know as a
- 00:59:23capture company that produces CO2 um we
- 00:59:26can sort of tune our process to produce
- 00:59:28CO2 of different um forms and purities
- 00:59:30we think and so we can sort of match
- 00:59:32with a bunch of different processes and
- 00:59:34utilization too you know um uh we
- 00:59:37produce electricity and CO2 which are
- 00:59:39basically the feed stocks for
- 00:59:40sustainable fuels and really excited
- 00:59:42about helping to plug into um that sort
- 00:59:45of nent industry and hopefully build the
- 00:59:47building blocks um that they need to
- 00:59:49sort of unlock their ability to upscale
- 00:59:51um um
- 00:59:52carbon yeah great makes a lot of sense
- 00:59:55um I'll just do probably two more and
- 00:59:58then I will let you go um so just on the
- 01:00:01panels themselves are they all submerged
- 01:00:02in seawater and is there like an issue
- 01:00:04of corrosion with that uh yeah thank you
- 01:00:07I I should have actually uh hit this our
- 01:00:09our likely deployment um uh form for the
- 01:00:13near future is onshore is not is not
- 01:00:15offshore um it's to um you know partner
- 01:00:19with existing facilities that already
- 01:00:21pump seawater take advantage of the
- 01:00:23brown Fields the areas around these
- 01:00:24Julian and I have you know toured places
- 01:00:26seen and and you know talked with power
- 01:00:29plants and it's surprising how much
- 01:00:31space there actually is around some of
- 01:00:32these to be able to develop and deploy
- 01:00:34our our sunlight collection um systems
- 01:00:37and so there is there's nothing about
- 01:00:39our process that it requires that it is
- 01:00:42stuck on land and there's real
- 01:00:43advantages to working offshore but also
- 01:00:45as oceanographers we know how hard it is
- 01:00:47to work offshore how some of the issues
- 01:00:49that the the the questioner sort of
- 01:00:52brought up come up we think that the
- 01:00:53easier path for deployment and Rapid
- 01:00:55scale up is being onshore next to
- 01:00:58seawater or river water is is the
- 01:01:00pathway to really sort of scale this up
- 01:01:01before we tackle the larger engineering
- 01:01:04challenge of
- 01:01:05offshore okay great and last question um
- 01:01:08could you tell us a story behind the
- 01:01:09name someone ask that and I think oh
- 01:01:12yeah yeah so carbon um uh uh Julian does
- 01:01:17a does a lot of work in his academic
- 01:01:19career in um Pacific Islands um uh and
- 01:01:23uh B is one of there's many dialects in
- 01:01:26in in Indonesia and Malaysia but it's
- 01:01:27one of the in one of the dialects it's
- 01:01:29the word for for
- 01:01:31water y great um cool thank you guys
- 01:01:34thank you so much for joining us um this
- 01:01:36has been really great and Toby I'll hand
- 01:01:38it back to you to talk about what's
- 01:01:39coming
- 01:01:41next excellent thank you Mega um and oh
- 01:01:45thank you Alex um really appreciate you
- 01:01:47being with us that was fantastic super
- 01:01:49exciting to learn more about p and and
- 01:01:51wishing you Julian a speedy recovery and
- 01:01:53wishing you guys all the best with your
- 01:01:55next steps thanks so much thank you
- 01:01:58really really great to be here and thank
- 01:02:00you for staying a few minutes extra
- 01:02:01there are so many questions um so I am
- 01:02:03going to share my screen very briefly uh
- 01:02:05I put a link in the chat to our Luma
- 01:02:08page which we have moved on to from
- 01:02:10Eventbrite and um we have several this
- 01:02:13is cdrs booked in the coming weeks uh
- 01:02:15air hiive uh one of um uh Ban's uh
- 01:02:20Frontier summer 23 um purchase cohort
- 01:02:23mates um direct air capture based in uh
- 01:02:26the UK our friend Rory um so super
- 01:02:28excited about that another actually all
- 01:02:30of these guys are um in the frontier
- 01:02:32portfolio alkal Earth holine and then um
- 01:02:34bzero uh in March to talk about how
- 01:02:37we're going to do ratings for carbon
- 01:02:39removal um thank you all for being with
- 01:02:41us uh again there's a link in the chat
- 01:02:44to um to register for all of the
- 01:02:46upcoming this cdrs uh here is Rory and
- 01:02:49Jasper uh next week with aive and uh we
- 01:02:52really appreciate you being with us and
- 01:02:53again thank you thank you so much to
- 01:02:54Alex for uh his time today and for
- 01:02:56sharing uh all that great information
- 01:02:58about B be well and we'll see you in a
- 01:03:23week
- 01:03:40[Music]
- 01:03:52[Music]
- 01:03:58yeah
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