How Rivers Cuomo uses #FlutterInProduction

00:28:46
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFWplUx3oZ0

Summary

TLDRAndrew Brogdon from the Flutter team discusses the evolution of Flutter with Rivers Cuomo, emphasizing its transition from an experimental project to a powerful tool for developers. They share Flutter's impressive stats, including over a million monthly active users and a high percentage of new iOS apps being built with it. They address the extensive community involvement and the cross-platform nature of Flutter, citing how it enables developers to create applications for various platforms efficiently. Rivers explains his experiences as a developer and the apps he has built, including a music streaming app and a meditation app, highlighting the practical application of Flutter in real-world scenarios.

Takeaways

  • 🎤 Rivers Cuomo is a software developer using Flutter.
  • 📅 Flutter has been around for over 10 years.
  • 📊 There are 528 publicly available Flutter widgets.
  • 🌍 Flutter is now used in 64 countries through meetups.
  • 🔥 Over a million developers use Flutter monthly.
  • 📱 28% of new iOS apps are built with Flutter.
  • 💡 Flutter allows for faster web app development with hot reload.
  • 🤝 Community support is a key aspect of Flutter's success.
  • 🎵 Rivers has created several apps, including music streaming and meditation apps.
  • ⚙️ Flutter can access native device features via additional coding.

Timeline

  • 00:00:00 - 00:05:00

    Andrew Brogdon introduces himself from the Flutter team, discussing Flutter's evolution from an experimental rendering project to a powerful tool used globally for app development, resulting in reduced costs and enhanced creativity for designers and developers alike.

  • 00:05:00 - 00:10:00

    Rivers Cuomo, the lead singer of Weezer, unexpectedly joins Andrew, revealing his background as a software developer. They discuss Flutter's vast reach, citing that over a million Flutter apps are published and how the platform's cross-platform capabilities and hot reload function benefit users like Rivers.

  • 00:10:00 - 00:15:00

    Rivers and Andrew share various stats about Flutter, including its age, the number of available widgets, contributors to the project, the extent of the Flutter Meetup Network, and the growing market share of Flutter apps on the iOS platform. They highlight Flutter's community-driven development and increased usage in recent years.

  • 00:15:00 - 00:20:00

    Rivers explains his view on the evolution of Flutter and its community, emphasizing continuous growth from experimental phases to current production. He introduces upcoming content, talking about empowering developers to create rich user experiences, before Andrew features a Raspberry Pi project demonstrating Flutter's versatility across platforms.

  • 00:20:00 - 00:28:46

    In a concluding segment, Andrew and Rivers discuss their respective coding experiences and share their current projects, with Rivers detailing his music streaming app, Weezify, and his contributions to a meditation app. They share thoughts on how AI might influence software development and coding practices in the future.

Show more

Mind Map

Video Q&A

  • What is Flutter?

    Flutter is a cross-platform UI toolkit developed by Google for building natively compiled applications for mobile, web, and desktop from a single codebase.

  • How long has Flutter been around?

    Flutter has been around for over 10 years, initially starting as a project called Sky.

  • How many widgets are available in Flutter?

    Flutter provides 528 publicly available widgets.

  • How many monthly users does Flutter have?

    Flutter has over a million monthly active users.

  • What percentage of new iOS apps are built with Flutter?

    28% of new iOS apps uploaded to the App Store are built with Flutter.

  • What platforms does Flutter support?

    Flutter officially supports six platforms: web, iOS, Android, Linux, Mac OS, and Windows.

  • Can Flutter applications be used for web development?

    Yes, Flutter allows developers to create web applications as well.

  • What is the Flutter Meetup Network?

    The Flutter Meetup Network consists of local meetups across 64 countries with about 92,000 people involved.

  • What libraries does Rivers Cuomo use with Flutter?

    Cuomo mentioned using audio libraries extensively for his apps.

  • Can Flutter apps access native features?

    Yes, Flutter apps can incorporate native code to access platform-specific features.

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  • 00:00:00
    [MUSIC PLAYING]
  • 00:00:04
  • 00:00:06
    ANDREW BROGDON: Hey, everybody.
  • 00:00:08
    I'm Andrew from the Flutter team,
  • 00:00:09
    and I'm here to talk with you about the past, present,
  • 00:00:11
    and future of Flutter--
  • 00:00:13
    how it's gone from an experimental rendering project
  • 00:00:15
    to a tool used around the world to reduce the time
  • 00:00:18
    and money required to unlock designers' creativity,
  • 00:00:21
    help businesses ship fantastic apps,
  • 00:00:23
    and empower developers to put great experiences
  • 00:00:26
    into users' hands.
  • 00:00:29
    What just happened?
  • 00:00:32
    Hi.
  • 00:00:33
    I'm not sure what's going on, but we're shooting content
  • 00:00:36
    for the Flutter community--
  • 00:00:37
    I'm sorry, are you Rivers Cuomo?
  • 00:00:39
    RIVERS CUOMO: Yeah.
  • 00:00:39
    ANDREW BROGDON: Like, lead singer-songwriter for the band
  • 00:00:42
    Weezer Rivers Cuomo?
  • 00:00:44
    Toured the world for decades.
  • 00:00:45
    Millions of records.
  • 00:00:46
    Reinterpreted Aaron Copland for a jaded, modern audience.
  • 00:00:49
    Like that Rivers Cuomo.
  • 00:00:50
    RIVERS CUOMO: Yeah.
  • 00:00:51
    Pretty, much.
  • 00:00:52
    ANDREW BROGDON: Oh, OK.
  • 00:00:54
    Well, I don't know if you meant to beam yourself, I guess,
  • 00:00:58
    into a different studio, but we're actually
  • 00:00:59
    doing a tech live stream for tech folks.
  • 00:01:01
    Software developers.
  • 00:01:03
    RIVERS CUOMO: I am a software developer.
  • 00:01:05
    ANDREW BROGDON: You are?
  • 00:01:06
    RIVERS CUOMO: Yeah, I've shipped two applications
  • 00:01:08
    to support my life and work as an artist.
  • 00:01:10
    ANDREW BROGDON: Oh, OK.
  • 00:01:12
    Well, this stream is specifically about Flutter,
  • 00:01:15
    though, so--
  • 00:01:16
    RIVERS CUOMO: I build with Flutter.
  • 00:01:17
    ANDREW BROGDON: You do?
  • 00:01:18
    RIVERS CUOMO: Of course.
  • 00:01:19
    My users are on more than one platform, so I need to be, too.
  • 00:01:23
    Flutter seemed like the safe choice.
  • 00:01:24
    There are more than a million published Flutter apps,
  • 00:01:27
    with hundreds of millions of users and billions of dollars
  • 00:01:29
    moving through them.
  • 00:01:31
    ANDREW BROGDON: Am I asleep right now?
  • 00:01:32
    What is--
  • 00:01:33
    RIVERS CUOMO: Plus, I like using it.
  • 00:01:35
    The cross-platform thing is incredible I
  • 00:01:37
    like that I can make a web app first
  • 00:01:39
    before going on to the difficult deployment to Android or iOS
  • 00:01:42
    part.
  • 00:01:42
    And hot reload-- amazing.
  • 00:01:46
    ANDREW BROGDON: Yeah.
  • 00:01:47
    OK.
  • 00:01:49
    So we're a two-person intro now.
  • 00:01:52
    [LAUGHS] All right.
  • 00:01:53
    In the next couple of minutes, I need
  • 00:01:55
    to share some numbers about Flutter
  • 00:01:57
    and then set the stage for the rest of the content.
  • 00:02:00
    You want to help?
  • 00:02:01
    RIVERS CUOMO: Oh, yeah.
  • 00:02:02
    You're doing great, by the way.
  • 00:02:03
    ANDREW BROGDON: Thanks.
  • 00:02:04
    Supportive community.
  • 00:02:06
    OK, so I asked our analytics team
  • 00:02:08
    to crunch some stats to reflect where Flutter's at these days.
  • 00:02:11
    And now I guess Rivers and I are going
  • 00:02:14
    to run some numbers by you.
  • 00:02:16
    [MUSIC PLAYING]
  • 00:02:19
    Here we go.
  • 00:02:20
    All right.
  • 00:02:21
    Those are for you.
  • 00:02:22
    Awesome.
  • 00:02:23
    All right.
  • 00:02:24
    So first number-- how old do you think the Flutter project
  • 00:02:28
    is in years?
  • 00:02:30
    RIVERS CUOMO: Well, I started using it four or five years ago,
  • 00:02:33
    and it had been around for a while before that.
  • 00:02:35
    So I'm going to say, seven years.
  • 00:02:37
    ANDREW BROGDON: Take a look.
  • 00:02:40
    RIVERS CUOMO: 10 years.
  • 00:02:41
    ANDREW BROGDON: 10 years.
  • 00:02:42
    RIVERS CUOMO: Wow.
  • 00:02:42
    ANDREW BROGDON: Yeah.
  • 00:02:42
    It wasn't called Flutter back then.
  • 00:02:44
    It was technically called Sky when it was first started.
  • 00:02:46
    But then they changed the name, and the first commit
  • 00:02:48
    was a little over 10 years ago.
  • 00:02:50
    RIVERS CUOMO: Whoa.
  • 00:02:50
    ANDREW BROGDON: Yeah.
  • 00:02:51
    All right.
  • 00:02:52
    Next card.
  • 00:02:53
    So we say in Flutter, everything's a widget.
  • 00:02:56
    You may have heard--
  • 00:02:57
    seen that phrase.
  • 00:02:57
    RIVERS CUOMO: I have.
  • 00:02:58
    ANDREW BROGDON: How many widgets are
  • 00:02:59
    publicly available out of the Flutter SDK?
  • 00:03:01
    How many are build in?
  • 00:03:02
    RIVERS CUOMO: Oh, jeez.
  • 00:03:04
    I'm going to say more than 100.
  • 00:03:07
    I would guess less than 200.
  • 00:03:10
    I'm going to say 200.
  • 00:03:12
    ANDREW BROGDON: Take a look.
  • 00:03:13
    RIVERS CUOMO: Oh, my god.
  • 00:03:14
    528.
  • 00:03:15
    ANDREW BROGDON: Yes.
  • 00:03:16
    RIVERS CUOMO: I got to learn some widgets.
  • 00:03:17
    ANDREW BROGDON: There you go.
  • 00:03:18
    Searched for the code this morning.
  • 00:03:20
    Yeah, 528 widgets publicly available in Flutter.
  • 00:03:23
    Everything from size box to multi-child render
  • 00:03:25
    object widget.
  • 00:03:26
    All right.
  • 00:03:27
    Next one.
  • 00:03:29
    Since the start of this year, how many people
  • 00:03:32
    have contributed code to Flutter?
  • 00:03:35
    RIVERS CUOMO: I've been to the GitHub,
  • 00:03:36
    and there's a lot of people on there.
  • 00:03:40
    I'm going to say a thousand?
  • 00:03:43
    ANDREW BROGDON: Take a look.
  • 00:03:44
    RIVERS CUOMO: 475.
  • 00:03:45
    ANDREW BROGDON: Yeah.
  • 00:03:46
    So not quite a thousand, but 475.
  • 00:03:48
    And that runs from the beginning of the year up
  • 00:03:50
    until about Halloween.
  • 00:03:51
    A little follow-on-- I don't have a card for this one.
  • 00:03:53
    How many of those folks do you think
  • 00:03:55
    were googlers-- folks that actually worked at Google?
  • 00:03:59
    RIVERS CUOMO: 150.
  • 00:03:59
    ANDREW BROGDON: 119.
  • 00:04:00
    That's pretty close.
  • 00:04:01
    RIVERS CUOMO: Right on.
  • 00:04:02
    ANDREW BROGDON: All right.
  • 00:04:03
    Cool.
  • 00:04:04
    OK.
  • 00:04:05
    We have a network of meetups called the Flutter Meetup
  • 00:04:08
    Network.
  • 00:04:08
    There's local meetups all over the world
  • 00:04:10
    in different languages.
  • 00:04:11
    How many countries would you guess
  • 00:04:13
    are covered by the network of Flutter meetups?
  • 00:04:16
    RIVERS CUOMO: I think it's a lot because I
  • 00:04:18
    see so many people from different countries
  • 00:04:21
    online talking about Flutter.
  • 00:04:23
    I'm going to say 123.
  • 00:04:26
    ANDREW BROGDON: All right.
  • 00:04:27
    We're not that-- we're not quite there yet.
  • 00:04:29
    We have 64.
  • 00:04:30
    About 92,000 people that are part of the network in 64
  • 00:04:33
    different countries.
  • 00:04:34
    All right.
  • 00:04:34
    Here's a heavyweight stat now.
  • 00:04:36
    How many people do you think use Flutter every month?
  • 00:04:40
    RIVERS CUOMO: As developers?
  • 00:04:41
    ANDREW BROGDON: Mm-hmm.
  • 00:04:42
    So this-- is we measure-- we have analytics that the Flutter
  • 00:04:44
    tool itself generates.
  • 00:04:45
    If you ever run Flutter Run or Flutter Create, that sends--
  • 00:04:49
    it uses Google Analytics.
  • 00:04:50
    How many people invoke the Flutter tool, do you think,
  • 00:04:52
    every month?
  • 00:04:53
    RIVERS CUOMO: A million.
  • 00:04:54
    ANDREW BROGDON: Take a look.
  • 00:04:56
    Over a million.
  • 00:04:57
    RIVERS CUOMO: Over a million.
  • 00:04:57
    ANDREW BROGDON: Yeah, we measure it in a couple different ways,
  • 00:04:59
    and we don't know how much over a million it is,
  • 00:05:01
    but it's definitely over a million now.
  • 00:05:03
    RIVERS CUOMO: Nice.
  • 00:05:04
    ANDREW BROGDON: Yeah.
  • 00:05:04
    All right.
  • 00:05:05
    Last one.
  • 00:05:06
    According to the app analytics firm
  • 00:05:08
    Apptopia, what percentage of new apps being
  • 00:05:12
    uploaded to the iOS App Store do you think
  • 00:05:14
    are built with Flutter?
  • 00:05:16
    RIVERS CUOMO: Mm.
  • 00:05:17
    [LAUGHTER]
  • 00:05:18
  • 00:05:21
    There's a lot of ways to make apps.
  • 00:05:23
    I'm going to say 0.5%?
  • 00:05:26
    ANDREW BROGDON: 0.5%.
  • 00:05:28
    RIVERS CUOMO: 28%?
  • 00:05:29
    ANDREW BROGDON: 28%.
  • 00:05:30
    RIVERS CUOMO: Oh, my--
  • 00:05:31
    ANDREW BROGDON: So more than one in four new iOS apps going up
  • 00:05:34
    to the App Store are built with Flutter.
  • 00:05:37
    RIVERS CUOMO: Mind blown.
  • 00:05:38
    ANDREW BROGDON: Yeah.
  • 00:05:39
    Well, that was fun.
  • 00:05:40
    Thank you for agreeing to take a pop
  • 00:05:42
    quiz in front of several hundred thousand people.
  • 00:05:44
    RIVERS CUOMO: My pleasure.
  • 00:05:45
    ANDREW BROGDON: All right, time to get this party going.
  • 00:05:48
    Since you're part of the Flutter community now,
  • 00:05:50
    do you want to introduce the rest of our content?
  • 00:05:52
    RIVERS CUOMO: That would be awesome.
  • 00:05:54
    Let's see.
  • 00:05:55
    Over the last decade, Flutter has gone through a few eras.
  • 00:05:58
    At the start was the experimental era.
  • 00:06:01
    The whole project was just a few engineers
  • 00:06:03
    seeing if they could make the web run faster,
  • 00:06:06
    culminating in the launch of 1.0 in 2018
  • 00:06:08
    when Flutter became a stable SDK.
  • 00:06:11
    In its growth era, Flutter added more supported platforms
  • 00:06:14
    with new engineers, like moi, picking it up,
  • 00:06:17
    the Flutter community welcoming so many new faces,
  • 00:06:20
    new packages being published every week,
  • 00:06:22
    and the ecosystem exploding with new code.
  • 00:06:26
    Now we're in Flutter's production era.
  • 00:06:28
    Thanks to its thousands of contributors and millions
  • 00:06:30
    of developers, Flutter has grown to be something people rely on.
  • 00:06:34
    And engineering the SDK and tools
  • 00:06:37
    is more about delivering on Flutter's existing promises
  • 00:06:40
    and continually improving its awesome developer experience.
  • 00:06:44
    During this event, we'll talk a bit
  • 00:06:45
    about all these things, including
  • 00:06:47
    info about the last couple releases
  • 00:06:49
    and where things are headed, plus a live Q&A
  • 00:06:52
    with folks from the team.
  • 00:06:53
    First up is tech lead and musician Kate [? Lovett ?]
  • 00:06:57
    to talk about how Flutter empowers developers
  • 00:06:59
    to craft incredible user experiences, widgets, rendering,
  • 00:07:04
    Cupertino, and a lot of other imports
  • 00:07:07
    that end up at the top of all my Dart files.
  • 00:07:10
    ANDREW BROGDON: That was great.
  • 00:07:11
    Thanks.
  • 00:07:12
    Do you mind if I share this selfie with, like, 30 people
  • 00:07:15
    I went to school with?
  • 00:07:16
    RIVERS CUOMO: [LAUGHS]
  • 00:07:17
    [WA-WA SOUND]
  • 00:07:19
    ANDREW BROGDON: So I know you noticed the little boom
  • 00:07:21
    box earlier when we were taking a break.
  • 00:07:23
    RIVERS CUOMO: Very cool.
  • 00:07:24
    Brings me back.
  • 00:07:25
    ANDREW BROGDON: Yeah, it's got a Grandmaster Flash look to it.
  • 00:07:29
    And so that's actually running Flutter right now on a Raspberry
  • 00:07:32
    Pi, I believe, and then a little LCD screen.
  • 00:07:34
    RIVERS CUOMO: Yeah, mind-blowing.
  • 00:07:35
    ANDREW BROGDON: Yeah, and so--
  • 00:07:37
    there's a bunch of community--
  • 00:07:38
    Flutter supports six platforms, officially.
  • 00:07:40
    But there are folks in our community
  • 00:07:42
    who do experiments all the time to see what they
  • 00:07:44
    can get Flutter running on.
  • 00:07:45
    I saw somebody that was doing an alarm clock yesterday.
  • 00:07:48
    They posted a Blue Sky about it.
  • 00:07:50
    RIVERS CUOMO: Oh, man.
  • 00:07:50
    I got to get into this.
  • 00:07:51
    ANDREW BROGDON: Yeah, so Roman Jaquez.
  • 00:07:54
    He seems to get more work done as a side project
  • 00:07:56
    than I do despite working for the Flutter team full time.
  • 00:07:59
    But, yeah, I mean, it's one of the fun parts about the SDK.
  • 00:08:03
    We're all surrounded by a bunch of glowing rectangles,
  • 00:08:05
    and so why can't you run Flutter on whatever glowing rectangle
  • 00:08:08
    you want?
  • 00:08:08
    RIVERS CUOMO: Yeah.
  • 00:08:09
    So what does it do?
  • 00:08:11
    ANDREW BROGDON: It streams music.
  • 00:08:12
    RIVERS CUOMO: It streams music.
  • 00:08:13
    ANDREW BROGDON: It streams music.
  • 00:08:14
    And so yeah, we were listening to a Rivers Cuomo solo track
  • 00:08:17
    earlier.
  • 00:08:18
    RIVERS CUOMO: Wait a minute.
  • 00:08:19
    You mean from a local server, or what do you mean, stream?
  • 00:08:22
    Streams from what?
  • 00:08:22
    ANDREW BROGDON: So it'll stream, I believe,
  • 00:08:23
    from one of the streaming services.
  • 00:08:25
    And so we have it turned off because licensing music is
  • 00:08:28
    no joke.
  • 00:08:29
    But normally, you could crank that up.
  • 00:08:31
    I've seen them do it at trade shows and stuff like that.
  • 00:08:33
    This is one of their showpiece projects of--
  • 00:08:35
    VGV-- it can knock out anything that you want them to build.
  • 00:08:38
    They have somebody that can do it.
  • 00:08:40
    RIVERS CUOMO: Very Good Ventures.
  • 00:08:41
    ANDREW BROGDON: Yeah.
  • 00:08:42
    And they were nice enough to drop it off for us.
  • 00:08:44
    RIVERS CUOMO: Yeah, I use Very Good Ventures flutter_bloc.
  • 00:08:48
    They make flutter_bloc?
  • 00:08:50
    Is that--
  • 00:08:50
    ANDREW BROGDON: They're the primary maintainers of it,
  • 00:08:51
    I believe.
  • 00:08:52
    RIVERS CUOMO: Right.
  • 00:08:53
    You can go onto their GitHub and search the issue's history,
  • 00:08:56
    and you'll probably see me in there begging for help
  • 00:08:58
    because I'm totally confused.
  • 00:08:59
    ANDREW BROGDON: [LAUGHS] So this is one of my questions.
  • 00:09:02
    I was planning on slipping this in later.
  • 00:09:04
    But I was curious about how you interact with the community.
  • 00:09:08
    Is there a GitHub account called Goat Punishment
  • 00:09:10
    that you use to hide your identity a little bit?
  • 00:09:12
    RIVERS CUOMO: No.
  • 00:09:13
    Actually, yeah-- when I started in 2015, just programming
  • 00:09:18
    in general, I started with an online CS course.
  • 00:09:22
    And at the time, I was just--
  • 00:09:23
    I had no habit for being part of an online community.
  • 00:09:27
    And I was very private, and I didn't
  • 00:09:29
    take advantage of the online tutors
  • 00:09:32
    or Discord or Facebook groups, any of that.
  • 00:09:36
    I was just totally on my own.
  • 00:09:37
    And I really suffered.
  • 00:09:39
    Then I discovered Stack Overflow, and I went--
  • 00:09:42
    and that place was a little bit intimidating.
  • 00:09:44
    And sometimes people are rough in there
  • 00:09:46
    if you're a newbie like me.
  • 00:09:48
    But eventually, I've come to feel
  • 00:09:51
    like, oh, this is pretty safe.
  • 00:09:53
    And I just--
  • 00:09:55
    I have the literal picture of myself
  • 00:09:58
    on the cover of the Blue Album as my GitHub picture.
  • 00:10:01
    An account named Rivers Cuomo.
  • 00:10:04
    And nothing bad has happened.
  • 00:10:06
    Everyone's been really cool.
  • 00:10:08
    And if anything, I've gotten some extra help
  • 00:10:10
    from fans who come on-- experienced programmers.
  • 00:10:13
    ANDREW BROGDON: Oh, wow.
  • 00:10:14
    RIVERS CUOMO: Yeah, it's been great.
  • 00:10:15
    ANDREW BROGDON: That's really cool.
  • 00:10:16
    I'm glad to hear it.
  • 00:10:17
    The community is the best part of developing with Flutter.
  • 00:10:21
    We're very lucky to have the folks, again, around the world
  • 00:10:23
    that we get to work with.
  • 00:10:25
    And it's very motivating for me.
  • 00:10:27
    RIVERS CUOMO: Yeah, and Felix Angelov is flutter_bloc, right?
  • 00:10:32
    Very Good Ventures?
  • 00:10:32
    Yeah.
  • 00:10:33
    ANDREW BROGDON: He's actually moved on from VGV, by the way.
  • 00:10:35
    He's at another company called Shorebird right now.
  • 00:10:37
    RIVERS CUOMO: Oh, yes.
  • 00:10:38
    Actually, I've seen that name, too.
  • 00:10:40
    I didn't quite understand what they're doing.
  • 00:10:42
    But he was always, like, so helpful and nice
  • 00:10:46
    with flutter_bloc.
  • 00:10:47
    And, why is this guy being so nice?
  • 00:10:49
    And what's in it for him?
  • 00:10:51
    I don't quite understand it, coming from the musician
  • 00:10:54
    background, where there's a sense of community between all
  • 00:10:59
    the different bands and stuff, but you
  • 00:11:01
    wouldn't be open sourcing your song like,
  • 00:11:03
    here, come take this part of my song and use it in yours.
  • 00:11:05
    Good luck having a hit.
  • 00:11:06
    Yeah.
  • 00:11:06
    ANDREW BROGDON: It's just all public domain.
  • 00:11:07
    Enjoy.
  • 00:11:08
    Do people sample your stuff, by the way?
  • 00:11:11
    RIVERS CUOMO: Yeah.
  • 00:11:13
    I mean, not so much artists from our generation,
  • 00:11:16
    but new artists-- sampling is a big thing or interpolating
  • 00:11:19
    where, oh, I like that chorus.
  • 00:11:21
    Let me use that chorus in my song.
  • 00:11:23
    I'll cut you in, and that kind of thing.
  • 00:11:25
    ANDREW BROGDON: I'm at the age where people are now
  • 00:11:27
    remaking things from when I was a kid,
  • 00:11:29
    and those people can all get off my lawn.
  • 00:11:33
    So you mentioned when you got started learning--
  • 00:11:37
    are you a learn-by-doing person or are you
  • 00:11:38
    somebody that would read docs, or do you
  • 00:11:40
    like videos or those sorts of things?
  • 00:11:42
    How did you approach the task of learning what Flutter was?
  • 00:11:46
    RIVERS CUOMO: Definitely learn by doing.
  • 00:11:48
    Yeah.
  • 00:11:49
    I just dive in and try to make something.
  • 00:11:51
    And back then, it was googling and stack overflowing.
  • 00:11:55
    Now it's LLMing or whatever the--
  • 00:11:57
    I don't know what the verb is.
  • 00:11:58
    ANDREW BROGDON: Ask Gemini, is what we would
  • 00:11:59
    say if we were livestream.
  • 00:11:59
    RIVERS CUOMO: Ask Gemini.
  • 00:12:01
    Yes, it's incredible what you can--
  • 00:12:02
    the help you can get, now, from that.
  • 00:12:04
    And I have mixed feelings, though,
  • 00:12:07
    because maybe I'm learning less.
  • 00:12:11
    5, 10 years ago, I was going on--
  • 00:12:13
    I really had to learn how to do every line of code myself.
  • 00:12:17
    And I guess there was some cutting and pasting.
  • 00:12:20
    But I think I had a much better understanding of what
  • 00:12:22
    I'm learning now, whereas now it's like you can just generate
  • 00:12:25
    a whole file or even more and just-- wow,
  • 00:12:29
    I'm a genius developer.
  • 00:12:31
    This is great.
  • 00:12:32
    I have no idea what I just did.
  • 00:12:34
    Oh, you know what?
  • 00:12:35
    I want to ask you--
  • 00:12:38
    how do you think AI is going to be affecting
  • 00:12:41
    Flutter in the future?
  • 00:12:41
    Because-- or just development in the future?
  • 00:12:45
    Big question.
  • 00:12:45
    But if you have any thoughts.
  • 00:12:47
    ANDREW BROGDON: Sure.
  • 00:12:47
    And let me put this out there.
  • 00:12:48
    Personal opinions.
  • 00:12:49
    I don't speak for the Flutter team or Google on these matters,
  • 00:12:52
    despite this being a Google live stream.
  • 00:12:54
    But my personal thoughts on it are--
  • 00:12:56
    people were worried about this with chess and Go.
  • 00:12:59
    There was a lot of, what happens when computers are better
  • 00:13:02
    at chess than people, and what happens
  • 00:13:03
    when computers-- and people haven't stopped playing chess.
  • 00:13:05
    And they haven't stopped playing go right.
  • 00:13:08
    And so what I am hopeful for is that more people will
  • 00:13:13
    be able to make software applications,
  • 00:13:15
    because I don't think the world is
  • 00:13:15
    going to get less hungry for software and software--
  • 00:13:18
    tools that run software.
  • 00:13:19
    I'm hopeful that more people will be able to learn better,
  • 00:13:22
    ultimately, by interacting with models,
  • 00:13:24
    and I'm hoping they'll be able to do things
  • 00:13:26
    that maybe you couldn't do before using models.
  • 00:13:30
    That is my hopeful version of the future.
  • 00:13:32
    Like I said, there are other communities
  • 00:13:35
    that have had to answer this question before.
  • 00:13:37
    And I don't really see-- like I said,
  • 00:13:39
    people are still doing creative things.
  • 00:13:41
    People are still playing chess.
  • 00:13:42
    They're still playing Go.
  • 00:13:43
    And they're just learning a little bit better
  • 00:13:46
    and doing a little bit better, I think.
  • 00:13:48
    RIVERS CUOMO: Yeah.
  • 00:13:49
    Any thoughts about how Flutter, specifically,
  • 00:13:51
    will change and evolve as we need
  • 00:13:55
    to code less and less ourselves, as the LLMs can do it for us?
  • 00:13:59
    ANDREW BROGDON: I think what will hopefully
  • 00:14:01
    happen is that every engineer starts doing
  • 00:14:05
    more of what a tech lead does.
  • 00:14:07
    Like, a tech lead reviews code and designs a whole system
  • 00:14:10
    and sets goals and stuff like that.
  • 00:14:12
    And then you might have other engineers
  • 00:14:14
    that are actually writing code that the tech lead then reviews.
  • 00:14:17
    And you can imagine a situation where somebody can--
  • 00:14:22
    I'm going to write the test for what the software can do.
  • 00:14:24
    And I'm going to tell a model, hey, I want you to do this,
  • 00:14:27
    and by the way, it should pass all these tests.
  • 00:14:29
    And then the tech lead would-- this engineer
  • 00:14:32
    would then judge whether the code created by the model
  • 00:14:34
    does that effectively.
  • 00:14:35
    If it does, code sticks.
  • 00:14:37
    And if it doesn't, you get back to work.
  • 00:14:38
    RIVERS CUOMO: Yeah.
  • 00:14:39
    Does it mean that, theoretically,
  • 00:14:41
    the code itself could maybe not need to be as human-readable?
  • 00:14:46
    ANDREW BROGDON: That's an interesting long-term question.
  • 00:14:48
    We talked about readability and Dart and stuff like that.
  • 00:14:51
    And, oh, is it easy to understand what a piece of code
  • 00:14:53
    does?
  • 00:14:53
    And if we get to a place where a machine-- an AI
  • 00:14:56
    is writing all the code, does it really matter
  • 00:14:58
    whether it's human-readable or not?
  • 00:15:00
    RIVERS CUOMO: Yeah, maybe there's
  • 00:15:01
    other ways to construct the code that would be
  • 00:15:03
    more efficient for the machine.
  • 00:15:04
    ANDREW BROGDON: Yeah.
  • 00:15:05
    But it's an interesting question for somebody
  • 00:15:07
    who came into coding like you.
  • 00:15:10
    That would be a different experience.
  • 00:15:11
    How do we keep it accessible to make sure
  • 00:15:13
    that somebody can step in and learn and enjoy
  • 00:15:16
    what they're doing?
  • 00:15:17
    So if you don't mind, what are you working on right now?
  • 00:15:19
    If you opened your IDE at home, what
  • 00:15:21
    would be the number one on the recent projects list,
  • 00:15:24
    so to speak?
  • 00:15:25
    RIVERS CUOMO: Well, I have my big projects and then
  • 00:15:27
    my recent projects.
  • 00:15:29
    My biggest project is called Weezify.
  • 00:15:31
    And the interface is--
  • 00:15:34
    it's like a Spotify-like music streamer.
  • 00:15:37
    ANDREW BROGDON: This is Mr. Rivers Neighborhood.
  • 00:15:39
    You can get to it online, right?
  • 00:15:41
    Through a web browser?
  • 00:15:41
    RIVERS CUOMO: Yeah, it's a web app and iOS and Android.
  • 00:15:44
    It's called Weezify now.
  • 00:15:46
    But it has just my demos, thousands of them-- like,
  • 00:15:50
    4,000 of them.
  • 00:15:51
    ANDREW BROGDON: Oh, wow.
  • 00:15:52
    RIVERS CUOMO: And-- yeah, accumulated over 30 years
  • 00:15:55
    I've been making demos.
  • 00:15:57
    So the fans can stream my demos through this Flutter app.
  • 00:16:00
    It's really cool.
  • 00:16:01
    And I'm also, now, the lead developer,
  • 00:16:06
    maintainer of a meditation app called Dhamma.org, which I think
  • 00:16:10
    is used by over a million people worldwide.
  • 00:16:12
    And I didn't build it, but I fixed
  • 00:16:16
    bugs-- try to fix bugs without introducing new bugs,
  • 00:16:19
    and introducing new features.
  • 00:16:21
    Like, I just added a dark mode.
  • 00:16:24
    ANDREW BROGDON: Awesome.
  • 00:16:26
    I don't know if this is too personal,
  • 00:16:28
    but you are Buddhist, correct?
  • 00:16:30
    RIVERS CUOMO: I don't really associate
  • 00:16:32
    with a particular religion.
  • 00:16:33
    But the meditation technique I practice--
  • 00:16:36
    I've been practicing for about 20 years-- was taught
  • 00:16:38
    by the Buddha, so there you go.
  • 00:16:40
    ANDREW BROGDON: That's awesome.
  • 00:16:40
    We were crowing about our monthly active users,
  • 00:16:42
    and I didn't know you had an app with a million folks using
  • 00:16:45
    it yourself.
  • 00:16:45
    That's great.
  • 00:16:46
    RIVERS CUOMO: Yeah.
  • 00:16:47
    Like I said, I just came in a few years ago.
  • 00:16:49
    That's actually one of the things that
  • 00:16:51
    inspired me to use Flutter is I saw
  • 00:16:53
    they were planning to use it.
  • 00:16:54
    The real developers who were coming from either iOS
  • 00:16:58
    or Android-- they were like, we should
  • 00:16:59
    do this cross-platform thing.
  • 00:17:01
    I was like, OK, this is cool because nobody
  • 00:17:03
    knows how to use it yet, so I'm on the same level as them.
  • 00:17:06
    This is my in.
  • 00:17:08
    And now I guess I'm the lead guy there.
  • 00:17:11
    ANDREW BROGDON: That's awesome.
  • 00:17:12
    And man, responsibility, too.
  • 00:17:14
    RIVERS CUOMO: But then every week or so, I'm like, oh, I
  • 00:17:18
    got a new idea, a new app.
  • 00:17:19
    Last week, I came up with this idea called Feels,
  • 00:17:23
    and it helps me communicate my emotions to my wife.
  • 00:17:27
    I think it could help my son, too,
  • 00:17:29
    because he has a tough time expressing
  • 00:17:31
    his feelings, his inner world.
  • 00:17:32
    And so it just takes you through a series
  • 00:17:35
    of questions like, which emotions might you
  • 00:17:37
    be feeling right now?
  • 00:17:38
    And you can select, sad, angry, scared, whatever.
  • 00:17:42
    And then there's follow-up questions.
  • 00:17:44
    And at the end, you have this paragraph
  • 00:17:46
    that explains how you're feeling, and send to my wife.
  • 00:17:50
    [LAUGHTER]
  • 00:17:51
    So very quickly, I can just put up this proof of concept
  • 00:17:56
    on the web.
  • 00:17:57
    And this is just for myself, really.
  • 00:18:00
    No commercial aspirations.
  • 00:18:02
    ANDREW BROGDON: Just something that's useful in your life?
  • 00:18:03
    RIVERS CUOMO: Yeah.
  • 00:18:03
    ANDREW BROGDON: Yeah.
  • 00:18:04
    I could use something like that for me
  • 00:18:06
    and my wife to probably communicate better, too.
  • 00:18:09
    Probably save me some stress.
  • 00:18:11
    That's awesome.
  • 00:18:13
    And so you-- I imagine-- you were talking about the demos
  • 00:18:16
    that you've created and how you've made thousands of demos.
  • 00:18:18
    Are you having demos in app form?
  • 00:18:21
    Not music, you know what I mean?
  • 00:18:22
    Sort of ideas that pop into life as a small app
  • 00:18:25
    that you're putting together?
  • 00:18:27
    RIVERS CUOMO: Yeah.
  • 00:18:27
    I mean, it always starts with a web app for me.
  • 00:18:31
    And Firebase-- that's you guys, right?
  • 00:18:33
    ANDREW BROGDON: Oh, yeah.
  • 00:18:34
    They're sort of a sibling team for us.
  • 00:18:36
    RIVERS CUOMO: Yeah.
  • 00:18:37
    It's just so quick to get things up and running,
  • 00:18:40
    and it looks pretty pro.
  • 00:18:41
    And I just-- I can impress myself, if no one else.
  • 00:18:46
    And then I go into my Discord server
  • 00:18:48
    and see how the fans are reacting and keep evolving it.
  • 00:18:51
    And eventually, things can go to the mobile apps, too.
  • 00:18:56
    ANDREW BROGDON: You mentioned Discord app.
  • 00:18:58
    So Firebase-- I was kind of curious.
  • 00:19:00
    You had talked about Felix and how much you enjoy using bloc.
  • 00:19:03
    I was curious, are there any other libraries in the ecosystem
  • 00:19:08
    that--
  • 00:19:09
    like, Weezify, you have to be using some kind
  • 00:19:11
    of audio library, right?
  • 00:19:12
    RIVERS CUOMO: Yeah, so many of my apps
  • 00:19:13
    use just audio, which is incredible.
  • 00:19:16
    I don't know what I would do without these libraries.
  • 00:19:19
    They do most of the heavy lifting,
  • 00:19:21
    and then you can just import.
  • 00:19:23
    ANDREW BROGDON: I mean, that's the idea right?
  • 00:19:25
    RIVERS CUOMO: Yeah.
  • 00:19:25
    [LAUGHS]
  • 00:19:25
    ANDREW BROGDON: One of the things I was curious about
  • 00:19:28
    is you-- obviously, well-known as a songwriter.
  • 00:19:30
    This is something that's a craft that you've been involved
  • 00:19:32
    in for a long, long time.
  • 00:19:34
  • 00:19:37
    Do you approach writing a piece of software
  • 00:19:39
    the same way that you approach writing a piece of music,
  • 00:19:41
    or are there crossovers there?
  • 00:19:43
    RIVERS CUOMO: It's easier to pinpoint the differences.
  • 00:19:45
    So coding, for me, is more fun and relaxing.
  • 00:19:52
    In fact, when I'm on tour, I code all day long,
  • 00:19:55
    right up to the show because it takes my mind
  • 00:19:58
    off the stress of the show.
  • 00:19:59
    And I can just work on these problems.
  • 00:20:01
    And the time just flies by.
  • 00:20:04
    It's wonderful, whereas working on music,
  • 00:20:07
    it's a more emotional struggle, and there's a lot more
  • 00:20:09
    self-doubt and self-criticism.
  • 00:20:13
    I don't know if it's because coding is my hobby and music has
  • 00:20:18
    been this all-encompassing professional
  • 00:20:22
    and creative endeavor since I was, like, 10 or so.
  • 00:20:25
    So I just have more baggage there.
  • 00:20:27
    I'd have to ask other developers,
  • 00:20:29
    like, how is coding for you?
  • 00:20:30
    Is it an emotional struggle for you?
  • 00:20:32
    Do you feel the self-doubt and self-criticism,
  • 00:20:34
    or is it all just fun like it is for me?
  • 00:20:36
    I don't know.
  • 00:20:37
    What do you think?
  • 00:20:38
    ANDREW BROGDON: I'm sure there are folks that are dealing
  • 00:20:40
    with a lot of self-doubt.
  • 00:20:41
    Imposter syndrome is something we
  • 00:20:42
    talk about fairly often in not just
  • 00:20:44
    our community, but communities in general.
  • 00:20:46
    And I'm a manager now.
  • 00:20:49
    I manage 10 people.
  • 00:20:50
    And so my self-doubt is that I'm slowly forgetting how to code.
  • 00:20:54
    I do spreadsheets and email and those sorts
  • 00:20:58
    of bureaucratic things.
  • 00:20:59
    And occasionally, I get to carve out
  • 00:21:00
    a little fun thing for myself like this, right now.
  • 00:21:02
    RIVERS CUOMO: It's still the fun thing, though.
  • 00:21:03
    ANDREW BROGDON: Yeah, this part is still fun,
  • 00:21:05
    and it's interesting.
  • 00:21:06
    I'm definitely an amateur at this part of it,
  • 00:21:08
    whereas I used to be--
  • 00:21:09
    RIVERS CUOMO: You're doing great.
  • 00:21:10
    ANDREW BROGDON: Thank you.
  • 00:21:11
    Whereas I used to be a professional-grade software
  • 00:21:13
    engineer.
  • 00:21:15
    And so, yeah, I still have a little bit of that self-doubt.
  • 00:21:18
    I don't know.
  • 00:21:19
    It's good as a reminder though, that--
  • 00:21:21
    I think if I lost that, I would lose my ability
  • 00:21:23
    to connect with the newer parts of our community.
  • 00:21:26
    And one thing that is definitely important to Flutter
  • 00:21:28
    is that we stay welcoming, we try
  • 00:21:30
    to make sure that everybody understands this
  • 00:21:32
    is a thing that you can do.
  • 00:21:34
    If somebody's out there right now wondering
  • 00:21:36
    if you can do it-- if you're watching this live stream right
  • 00:21:38
    now, you can do it.
  • 00:21:39
    You should try it.
  • 00:21:40
    RIVERS CUOMO: Yeah, I did it.
  • 00:21:43
    And your videos are amazing.
  • 00:21:46
    Really polished and classy, but fun.
  • 00:21:49
    ANDREW BROGDON: You are very kind,
  • 00:21:51
    and our team is going to be very happy to hear you say that.
  • 00:21:55
    Thank you.
  • 00:21:55
    RIVERS CUOMO: And they're really short, like a minute or two.
  • 00:21:58
    And you're like, whoa, that's a cool widget.
  • 00:22:00
    I got to try that.
  • 00:22:01
    ANDREW BROGDON: Widget of the Week.
  • 00:22:01
    When I retire from Google, it'll probably
  • 00:22:03
    go down as the single best idea I ever had.
  • 00:22:05
    Is there anything about Flutter that bothers you or is
  • 00:22:09
    annoying that we could fix?
  • 00:22:10
    RIVERS CUOMO: I'm a big fan of Flutter Web,
  • 00:22:12
    so whatever you can do to make that
  • 00:22:14
    as smooth for the developer as Android or something.
  • 00:22:20
    Sometimes the hot reload's a little funky.
  • 00:22:23
    ANDREW BROGDON: Yeah, hot reload, on the web,
  • 00:22:25
    is something they're working on right now.
  • 00:22:26
    So we have hot restart, where it completely restarts
  • 00:22:29
    the app on the web, as I'm sure you've noticed.
  • 00:22:31
    There are folks working on hot reload for the web right now.
  • 00:22:34
  • 00:22:37
    And it stinks for us on DevRel because we
  • 00:22:39
    want to help people get started as quickly as possible.
  • 00:22:42
    And right now, in order to experience hot reload,
  • 00:22:44
    we have to ask you to download a whole bunch of tools,
  • 00:22:46
    like Xcode or Android Studio or Visual Studio
  • 00:22:50
    or something like that, whereas if the hot reload worked
  • 00:22:52
    on the web, we could just be like, you have a web browser
  • 00:22:54
    already.
  • 00:22:55
    Just go download Flutter, and you can try it.
  • 00:22:57
    It'll be fine.
  • 00:22:59
    And so I'm going to be very happy when that lands.
  • 00:23:01
    But it is a definite pain point for a lot of people.
  • 00:23:04
    Have you tried WebAssembly yet?
  • 00:23:06
    RIVERS CUOMO: No, I've heard of that.
  • 00:23:08
    What's that again?
  • 00:23:08
    ANDREW BROGDON: So WebAssembly is a different compilation
  • 00:23:11
    target for Flutter on the web.
  • 00:23:13
    So when we first launched Flutter on the web,
  • 00:23:15
    it would compile to JavaScript, and then JavaScript
  • 00:23:17
    would run in every web browser.
  • 00:23:20
    But recently, they have a new standard
  • 00:23:22
    for this bytecode format called WebAssembly, where Dart can now
  • 00:23:26
    be compiled to WebAssembly.
  • 00:23:28
    And so instead of getting a bunch of JavaScript
  • 00:23:30
    as text sent down to the browser, which then
  • 00:23:32
    the browser has to chew through and compile,
  • 00:23:35
    you just get precompiled code, basically.
  • 00:23:38
    And Flutter-- at I/O this year, so about six months ago,
  • 00:23:41
    we announced stable support for-- stable support?
  • 00:23:44
    We announced support for WebAssembly.
  • 00:23:46
    And so you can use it-- when you build your app for the web,
  • 00:23:48
    you can include a little flag to try it with WebAssembly.
  • 00:23:51
    Folks have tried it, and it's generally
  • 00:23:53
    been quicker load times and much higher rendering speeds, stuff
  • 00:23:56
    like that.
  • 00:23:57
    How have you seen Flutter change in the time
  • 00:23:59
    that you've been using it, or seen the Flutter community
  • 00:24:01
    change?
  • 00:24:02
    If you've been around for five years,
  • 00:24:03
    you're kind of an old hat at this point.
  • 00:24:05
    RIVERS CUOMO: Well, I came in right
  • 00:24:07
    around the change to null safety.
  • 00:24:11
    ANDREW BROGDON: Oh, wow.
  • 00:24:12
    That would have been an interesting time to show up.
  • 00:24:13
    RIVERS CUOMO: Yeah, I just feel like bit by bit,
  • 00:24:15
    things have gotten more--
  • 00:24:20
    cooler and more professional, and widgets
  • 00:24:23
    are a little slicker and flashier,
  • 00:24:25
    and just more fun stuff to play with.
  • 00:24:28
    ANDREW BROGDON: I think that might be a common reaction
  • 00:24:31
    just because--
  • 00:24:32
    Flutter's original vision was to go to 6 platforms.
  • 00:24:36
    So you have web, iOS, Android, Linux, Mac OS, and Windows.
  • 00:24:40
    And when we got to that point, it
  • 00:24:42
    was like, well, what do we do now?
  • 00:24:43
    [LAUGHS] So a lot of--
  • 00:24:45
    RIVERS CUOMO: Just make everything cooler.
  • 00:24:47
    ANDREW BROGDON: Right.
  • 00:24:47
    Yeah, a lot of the work now is, like, how do we just
  • 00:24:50
    make everything to the point that it just
  • 00:24:52
    works, that you don't have to mess with it,
  • 00:24:54
    that it just works out of the box, so to speak?
  • 00:24:57
    RIVERS CUOMO: Yeah, there's one thing
  • 00:24:59
    I'm trying to implement that I can't find a package for,
  • 00:25:02
    but it seems like a very basic function.
  • 00:25:04
    So--
  • 00:25:04
    ANDREW BROGDON: You have a very big audience
  • 00:25:06
    of people who'd love to make a contribution, so fire away.
  • 00:25:08
    RIVERS CUOMO: I don't know if this exists.
  • 00:25:10
    I've looked everywhere, on pub.dev and GitHub.
  • 00:25:15
    But-- so starting with the meditation app,
  • 00:25:19
    we want to support casting.
  • 00:25:24
    So on the app, you can play videos or audio,
  • 00:25:27
    and there should be a cast button that you press and it
  • 00:25:30
    ends up on your TV, right?
  • 00:25:31
    ANDREW BROGDON: Yeah.
  • 00:25:32
    RIVERS CUOMO: So if there's a room full of people meditating,
  • 00:25:34
    you can all watch the same video or listen
  • 00:25:36
    to the same guided meditation, whatever.
  • 00:25:38
    How do you do casting?
  • 00:25:40
    ANDREW BROGDON: I don't know, off the top of my--
  • 00:25:42
    I want to go open my laptop, but it's off camera.
  • 00:25:45
    I would wager that somebody's working on that right
  • 00:25:48
    now, And Flutter--
  • 00:25:51
    it often feels like a separate sort of system
  • 00:25:54
    from all the normal thing--
  • 00:25:56
    sometimes you have to figure out how to go use a hardware API,
  • 00:25:59
    like casting API or the accelerometers
  • 00:26:02
    on a device or something like that.
  • 00:26:03
    But at the end of the day, a Flutter app
  • 00:26:05
    built for iOS or Android is just an app
  • 00:26:08
    for those platforms with a bunch of native code in it.
  • 00:26:10
    And so there's pretty much always a way to go
  • 00:26:13
    do whatever it is that you want to do,
  • 00:26:15
    even if you have to add a little bit of native code to do it.
  • 00:26:18
    RIVERS CUOMO: Yeah, that's what I was gathering
  • 00:26:20
    from the discussion online, is you
  • 00:26:23
    could write some native code.
  • 00:26:25
    And I've never done that.
  • 00:26:27
    It sounds interesting.
  • 00:26:28
    But it seems like there should be a package.
  • 00:26:30
    ANDREW BROGDON: There should be a plugin for it.
  • 00:26:32
    Yeah.
  • 00:26:33
    And if there's not, a bunch of people are listening.
  • 00:26:36
    And I can see how that would totally
  • 00:26:37
    fit into an app for meditation where you might
  • 00:26:39
    have some people in a room.
  • 00:26:40
    I'm suddenly reminded of Flutter Interact.
  • 00:26:42
    We had an event at 2019, where I almost
  • 00:26:45
    didn't recognize that one of my colleagues was meditating.
  • 00:26:47
    She was sitting on a couch listening
  • 00:26:49
    to headphones, and she--
  • 00:26:49
    RIVERS CUOMO: During the performance?
  • 00:26:51
    ANDREW BROGDON: This was right before.
  • 00:26:52
    And she was-- she was just sitting there,
  • 00:26:53
    listening to her headphones with her eyes closed.
  • 00:26:55
    And I almost went up to ask her a question.
  • 00:26:56
    And I was like, wait, that's purposeful sitting.
  • 00:26:58
    I don't want to bother her right now.
  • 00:27:00
    So I waved myself off and caught up with her later.
  • 00:27:03
    Have you ever tried IDX?
  • 00:27:05
    Are you familiar with that?
  • 00:27:06
    RIVERS CUOMO: IDX, to me, is a shortcut for, index.
  • 00:27:10
    I don't know--
  • 00:27:11
    ANDREW BROGDON: OK.
  • 00:27:12
    No, it's-- so there's online IDE that Google makes,
  • 00:27:16
    and it works with Flutter.
  • 00:27:17
    It's called Project IDX.
  • 00:27:19
    RIVERS CUOMO: No.
  • 00:27:21
    You mean, I would use that instead of something
  • 00:27:23
    like vscode?
  • 00:27:24
    ANDREW BROGDON: Yeah.
  • 00:27:25
    So you can open it.
  • 00:27:27
    I think it's IDX.google.com.
  • 00:27:29
    I cannot, for the life of me, remember their name
  • 00:27:31
    because it's already in my URL history,
  • 00:27:33
    so I never have to remember it.
  • 00:27:35
    But it's an online--
  • 00:27:36
    it uses the open-source stuff that's based on vscode.
  • 00:27:38
    I don't know if you use vscode?
  • 00:27:40
    RIVERS CUOMO: I use vscode.
  • 00:27:41
    Yeah.
  • 00:27:41
    ANDREW BROGDON: There you go.
  • 00:27:43
    But it's all online, and so it'll
  • 00:27:45
    show you a web preview in a browser.
  • 00:27:47
    And it can also run an Android emulator for you
  • 00:27:50
    And so if you're ever on a machine
  • 00:27:51
    that you want to do a little coding on,
  • 00:27:53
    but you don't have the Android SDK and Flutter tool download
  • 00:27:55
    and stuff like that, you can just pop open
  • 00:27:57
    a web browser and code.
  • 00:27:58
    RIVERS CUOMO: Very cool.
  • 00:27:59
    ANDREW BROGDON: Yeah, we're looking forward
  • 00:28:01
    to it, especially now, because we can do workshops with it.
  • 00:28:04
    If you want to have a bunch of people
  • 00:28:05
    try Flutter for the first time, you
  • 00:28:07
    don't have to spend an hour getting their machines set up.
  • 00:28:08
    You can just start right here.
  • 00:28:10
    Here's IDX for you.
  • 00:28:11
    I saw-- speaking of-- oh, directors approaching.
  • 00:28:15
    Oh, my goodness.
  • 00:28:16
    SPEAKER: Since you are a Flutter developer,
  • 00:28:19
    we thought that you could be an honorary noogler.
  • 00:28:23
    RIVERS CUOMO: Right.
  • 00:28:24
    ANDREW BROGDON: Oh, my goodness.
  • 00:28:25
    So-- awesome.
  • 00:28:26
    Thank you so much for being a part of this
  • 00:28:28
    and for answering some questions with us.
  • 00:28:30
    I hope this has been fun for you.
  • 00:28:31
    RIVERS CUOMO: It's been amazing.
  • 00:28:32
    ANDREW BROGDON: All right.
  • 00:28:33
    And thank you again for being part of our developer community.
  • 00:28:35
    RIVERS CUOMO: Woo!
  • 00:28:36
    [MUSIC PLAYING]
  • 00:28:39
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