Episode 1 - George Washington | PRESIDENTIAL podcast

00:48:02
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrAu6q1W-vw

Summary

TLDRThe podcast series begins with an in-depth exploration of George Washington's leadership and character. Hosted by Lillian Cunningham, it aims to dissect the attributes that defined Washington as the first U.S. president and how this shaped the presidency as an institution. Insights from historians and journalists highlight Washington’s bravery, ambition, and the mix of humility and self-doubt he exhibited throughout his career. The episode also discusses the historical context of Washington’s presidency and the lasting legacy he established, including the significant act of stepping down after two terms, which helped define future presidential conduct.

Takeaways

  • 🌙 Walking through history at Mount Vernon on a winter night.
  • 🎤 The podcast explores each American president's leadership.
  • 📖 Washington's character is more fascinating than often perceived.
  • 💼 Washington set a precedent for presidential power and relinquishment.
  • 🎙️ Interviews with journalists and historians provide in-depth insights.
  • 🎆 The impact of Washington's presidency on American democracy is significant.
  • 🚀 Washington was a leader who commanded respect from all political factions.
  • 📜 His papers reveal his humility and self-doubts regarding his role as president.
  • 🍷 Washington was concerned about the imagery and etiquette of the presidency.
  • 🏛️ The tension between being a democratic leader and a figure of power was crucial in Washington's presidency.

Timeline

  • 00:00:00 - 00:05:00

    The narrator describes a candlelight tour at Mount Vernon, George Washington's old home, reflecting on the beauty of the winter night and the significance of exploring presidential leadership, particularly in an election year. Lillian Cunningham, the host and editor at The Washington Post, aims to understand the effectiveness of various presidents by examining their skills and circumstances which defined their leadership, starting with Washington.

  • 00:05:00 - 00:10:00

    Lillian seeks advice from legendary journalist Bob Woodward, who emphasizes the importance of capturing the controversies surrounding American presidents rather than presenting them in a typical, bland manner. He shares insights into the responsibilities of a president to establish the next stage of good for the majority of the country and discusses how different circumstances require different leadership skills, revealing the complexities of presidential decisions.

  • 00:10:00 - 00:15:00

    Woodward elaborates on how presidents navigate their leadership based on circumstances and the reactions they face, highlighting how certain pivotal moments shape their legacies over time. Through his discussions with past presidents, he emphasizes the importance of assessing their actions and decisions as history unfolds, acknowledging that some historical evaluations may not be conclusive during a president's lifetime.

  • 00:15:00 - 00:20:00

    The episode begins its deep dive into George Washington's character and legacy. The host interviews Joel Achenbach, who wrote a book about Washington. Achenbach argues that Washington is often simplified into a stiff, iconic figure, overlooking his varied experiences and personality traits that made him an effective leader throughout his life.

  • 00:20:00 - 00:25:00

    Achenbach discusses Washington's numerous exploits and adventures during the French and Indian War that showcased his bravery. He describes how Washington's fearlessness and ambition shaped his leadership, making him an enduring figure in American history, characterized by instant respect and allegiance from his contemporaries, vital for a newly formed nation.

  • 00:25:00 - 00:30:00

    Washington's unique leadership style stems from his understanding of the nation's destiny, involving collaboration among states. The conversation addresses how Washington's vision helped unify a fragmented society at a time when the United States was still defining itself, making his leadership critically foundational for the country's future.

  • 00:30:00 - 00:35:00

    The complexity of Washington's legacy comes into focus through a discussion about his ownership of slaves and how contemporary values can cast him in unfavorable light. Despite these shortcomings, he recognized slavery's moral issues but chose to free his slaves only after his death, showcasing a conflicted legacy that invites historical context.

  • 00:35:00 - 00:40:00

    Self-control and modesty were key traits that defined Washington's leadership approach. An exploration of Washington's reluctance to assume the presidency reveals how his self-doubt and desire for humility resonated with the public,2 reflecting the values appreciated in the 18th century, even if they differ from modern political culture.

  • 00:40:00 - 00:48:02

    Finally, Washington's understanding of establishing presidential etiquette highlights his efforts to navigate his role within the nuances of American democracy versus monarchical expectations. His careful approach in seeking advice and setting standards for presidential behavior and image symbolizes the delicate balance necessary for the first president of a new nation.

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Mind Map

Video Q&A

  • What is the main focus of this podcast series?

    The podcast series explores the leadership styles and legacies of each American president, starting with George Washington.

  • Who is the host of the podcast?

    The host is Lillian Cunningham, an editor at The Washington Post.

  • What key aspects of George Washington's character are discussed?

    Washington's bravery, ambition, and self-doubt, as well as his leadership style and the legacy he created as the first president.

  • What is said about Washington's presidency?

    Washington's presidency set a precedent for the role, balancing the image of a powerful leader and a democratic figure.

  • Who are some of the guests featured in this episode?

    Guests include Bob Woodward, Joel Achenbach, and Julie Miller.

  • What significant act did Washington perform during his presidency?

    Washington is noted for relinquishing power after two terms, solidifying the democratic process in America.

  • What role did Washington play in the early United States?

    He was a unifying figure, respected by all political factions, which was crucial for the young nation.

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  • 00:00:07
    it's a pitch-black winter night and I'm
  • 00:00:10
    walking outside along the gravel paths
  • 00:00:12
    at Mount Vernon George Washington's old
  • 00:00:15
    home in Virginia there's a candlelight
  • 00:00:18
    tour going on here so everything's dark
  • 00:00:20
    except for a few fire pits and lanterns
  • 00:00:23
    that are popping and crackling and there
  • 00:00:26
    are re-enactors and visitors who are
  • 00:00:28
    standing around them singing there's
  • 00:00:30
    also just this beautiful icy white moon
  • 00:00:32
    in the sky that's lighting up the
  • 00:00:34
    Potomac River below I actually work only
  • 00:00:43
    about 15 miles from here in a very
  • 00:00:46
    different environment the newsroom of
  • 00:00:50
    The Washington Post
  • 00:00:53
    and Lillian Cunningham and I'm the
  • 00:00:56
    editor of a section here called
  • 00:00:57
    on leadership I mostly interview current
  • 00:01:00
    leaders in business and government but I
  • 00:01:02
    had the idea that especially in this
  • 00:01:05
    election year it would be really
  • 00:01:06
    fascinating to study up more on
  • 00:01:08
    presidential leadership in particular
  • 00:01:10
    like the skills and the circumstances
  • 00:01:13
    that have made certain presidents
  • 00:01:14
    effective or ineffective and whether the
  • 00:01:17
    type of leadership traits required to do
  • 00:01:19
    the job well have changed significantly
  • 00:01:21
    over the years that's when I started
  • 00:01:25
    confronting the fact that there are a
  • 00:01:27
    lot of presidents I really know nothing
  • 00:01:29
    about even the big-name presidents I
  • 00:01:32
    thought I knew something about well in
  • 00:01:37
    closer look most of what I knew or just
  • 00:01:39
    their very major successes or failures
  • 00:01:43
    I'm about to sign into sound bites that
  • 00:01:46
    have become famous Civil Rights Act of
  • 00:01:48
    1964 word I won't just the funny little
  • 00:01:52
    mitts that have somehow been lodged in
  • 00:01:54
    our collective memory like Taft getting
  • 00:01:56
    stuck in a bathtub the Washington Post's
  • 00:02:01
    former publisher Phil Gramm popularized
  • 00:02:04
    the phrase that journalism is the first
  • 00:02:06
    rough draft of history I started
  • 00:02:09
    thinking about that
  • 00:02:11
    and decided wouldn't it be really great
  • 00:02:13
    to dig into each of the American
  • 00:02:15
    presidencies by talking to the
  • 00:02:17
    journalists around me at the Washington
  • 00:02:18
    Post these are some of the people who
  • 00:02:21
    have often been first on the ground to
  • 00:02:23
    record and assess of president's
  • 00:02:25
    decisions and his actions and then I
  • 00:02:28
    thought wouldn't it be really great if I
  • 00:02:30
    took that and combined it with talking
  • 00:02:32
    to you historians and professors and
  • 00:02:34
    biographers who spend their time
  • 00:02:36
    studying those histories years or
  • 00:02:39
    decades or in some cases centuries later
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    so that's what brought me to George
  • 00:02:46
    Washington's home on a really cold
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    winter night for the next 44 weeks I'm
  • 00:02:52
    going to go one by one through each of
  • 00:02:55
    the American presidents I'm going to try
  • 00:02:58
    to better understand who all of them
  • 00:03:00
    really were how they came to hold the
  • 00:03:02
    nation's highest office how they
  • 00:03:05
    confronted tough decisions and which
  • 00:03:07
    traits really helped or hurt their
  • 00:03:09
    success on the job and then I'm also
  • 00:03:12
    really interested in the strange ways in
  • 00:03:14
    which their legacies have shifted or
  • 00:03:16
    cemented over the years where the
  • 00:03:18
    president's I never learned anything
  • 00:03:19
    about really so lackluster and
  • 00:03:21
    forgettable
  • 00:03:22
    and did the iconic ones really have some
  • 00:03:25
    superhuman leadership capacity that the
  • 00:03:27
    others didn't or have there been some
  • 00:03:30
    other forces at play that for one reason
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    or another have made us remember or
  • 00:03:35
    forget the presidents that we have I'm
  • 00:03:38
    starting at the beginning so this
  • 00:03:41
    episode is going to explore the
  • 00:03:42
    character of George Washington not every
  • 00:03:45
    episode is going to focus so exclusively
  • 00:03:47
    on the personality and the demeanor of
  • 00:03:49
    the president but since George
  • 00:03:52
    Washington gave us our very first
  • 00:03:53
    example of what an American president
  • 00:03:55
    should be like it seemed fitting to kick
  • 00:03:58
    off the series by looking a lot more
  • 00:04:00
    closely at who he was as a person and
  • 00:04:02
    how he came to define the role
  • 00:04:05
    [Music]
  • 00:04:06
    for this I'm going to talk to Jill
  • 00:04:08
    Achenbach he's a reporter at the post
  • 00:04:10
    who's written a book about George
  • 00:04:12
    Washington Julie Miller who's a
  • 00:04:14
    historian at the Library of Congress and
  • 00:04:16
    he's basically the keeper of George
  • 00:04:18
    Washington's papers and then Bob
  • 00:04:21
    Woodward the legendary Washington Post
  • 00:04:23
    reporter who broke the Watergate scandal
  • 00:04:25
    and who's authored a number of books on
  • 00:04:28
    the American presidency this is the very
  • 00:04:32
    first episode of presidential
  • 00:04:35
    [Music]
  • 00:04:39
    resign the presidency effective at noon
  • 00:04:42
    tomorrow what your country can do for
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    you a date will
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    Indian for me
  • 00:04:52
    [Applause]
  • 00:04:55
    [Music]
  • 00:05:10
    [Music]
  • 00:05:22
    normally I'll dive straight into
  • 00:05:24
    discussing the president at hand but
  • 00:05:26
    since this is the first episode of the
  • 00:05:28
    series I want to take just a little time
  • 00:05:30
    to zoom out and think through why and
  • 00:05:32
    how we're going to approach this podcast
  • 00:05:33
    this is where Bob Woodward comes in
  • 00:05:36
    since investigating the Watergate
  • 00:05:38
    scandal that led to President Nixon's
  • 00:05:40
    resignation Bob Woodward's been immersed
  • 00:05:43
    in uncovering the inner workings and
  • 00:05:44
    decision-making of American presidents
  • 00:05:46
    including Clinton Bush Obama so I asked
  • 00:05:50
    his help in guiding the aim of this
  • 00:05:52
    podcast his first piece of advice to me
  • 00:05:54
    was if you give a plain vanila Wikipedia
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    version of the president's you haven't
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    kind of captured the deep controversy
  • 00:06:08
    that runs through American history good
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    evening this is the 37th time I have
  • 00:06:18
    spoken to you from this office here's
  • 00:06:21
    more of our conversation I would start
  • 00:06:25
    with the definition of the dime of
  • 00:06:29
    precedent I have done so to discuss with
  • 00:06:31
    you some matter that I believe what is
  • 00:06:33
    it and from working on eight presidents
  • 00:06:38
    my conclusion is that the president
  • 00:06:41
    needs to establish what the next stage
  • 00:06:45
    of good is for a majority of people in
  • 00:06:48
    the country not a party not an interest
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    group but a real majority then develop a
  • 00:06:56
    plan strategic plan to to get there and
  • 00:07:01
    then execute it systematically in
  • 00:07:05
    obvious cases the next stage of good is
  • 00:07:08
    winning the war getting out of the
  • 00:07:10
    depression ending the Cold War I urged
  • 00:07:16
    the Soviet leader mr. Gorbachev to send
  • 00:07:19
    a new signal of openness to the world by
  • 00:07:22
    tearing down that wall perhaps giving
  • 00:07:26
    health care to everyone raising taxes
  • 00:07:29
    sometimes as the next stage of good
  • 00:07:32
    cutting taxes often is the next stage of
  • 00:07:36
    good to working with Congress fighting
  • 00:07:40
    Congress fighting the Supreme Court
  • 00:07:44
    getting the Supreme Court to validate
  • 00:07:47
    what you're doing this president and
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    then one of the things to ask about each
  • 00:07:53
    of these presidents did they do that did
  • 00:07:56
    they plan it did they look into it or
  • 00:07:59
    was it ended to them Pearl Harbor and it
  • 00:08:04
    given to President Roosevelt yes and he
  • 00:08:08
    had no choice 9/11 the terrorist attacks
  • 00:08:17
    in New York and Washington so it is a
  • 00:08:24
    matter of ascertaining what the will of
  • 00:08:27
    the president is what does the president
  • 00:08:30
    really want to do and then to what
  • 00:08:35
    extent do they succeed or fail at
  • 00:08:38
    working their will
  • 00:08:40
    do you um do you have the sense that
  • 00:08:44
    then the sort of skills that are needed
  • 00:08:46
    to execute on that are you know
  • 00:08:51
    different every time and for every
  • 00:08:53
    president or have you have you found
  • 00:08:55
    that there actually some sort of key
  • 00:08:58
    leadership traits sort of skills that
  • 00:09:01
    you've seen this is that this is the
  • 00:09:03
    great question - is there universal
  • 00:09:07
    leadership skills or talents that apply
  • 00:09:13
    in each case and the answer when you
  • 00:09:15
    look at this is no sometimes president
  • 00:09:19
    needs to be really tough and other times
  • 00:09:22
    the president needs to be a great
  • 00:09:27
    listener presidents also need to be
  • 00:09:32
    creatures of instinct because they're in
  • 00:09:35
    politics Gerald Ford when he pardoned
  • 00:09:39
    Nixon I always thought it was the
  • 00:09:40
    ultimate corruption of Watergate Nixon
  • 00:09:43
    goes free all these people
  • 00:09:45
    go to jail and then when you look at it
  • 00:09:48
    as I did look at the record and
  • 00:09:52
    interview Ford for hours and hours why'd
  • 00:09:55
    you do this
  • 00:09:56
    turns out Ford was really interested in
  • 00:10:00
    getting Nixon off the front page
  • 00:10:04
    because he was gonna be investigated
  • 00:10:08
    certainly indicted probably tried maybe
  • 00:10:11
    jail this presence we'd have two or
  • 00:10:13
    three more years of Watergate and Ford
  • 00:10:16
    said I needed my own presidency I had to
  • 00:10:20
    dispose of Nixon so what looked like in
  • 00:10:24
    1974 the ultimate corruption turns out
  • 00:10:28
    to be actually an act of courage in the
  • 00:10:33
    national interest because for paid an
  • 00:10:36
    immense political price for the pardon
  • 00:10:39
    because of the suspicions there was a
  • 00:10:41
    deal I mean that's one of the things I
  • 00:10:44
    find really fascinating too is the way
  • 00:10:47
    that legacy shifts over time and and
  • 00:10:50
    when it's kind of fair to start
  • 00:10:52
    assessing whether a vision someone had
  • 00:10:55
    has actually the answer is it's always
  • 00:10:58
    fair to make an assessment even in the
  • 00:11:03
    moment because that's the the way the
  • 00:11:07
    democracy functions and open debate
  • 00:11:11
    dialogue aggressive practice of the
  • 00:11:15
    First Amendment but I remember
  • 00:11:18
    interviewing President George W Bush
  • 00:11:22
    about the Iraq war and we'd spent hours
  • 00:11:27
    on the question of why'd you do it what
  • 00:11:29
    happened what were the decision points
  • 00:11:32
    step-by-step and then at the end I asked
  • 00:11:35
    him how do you think history will judge
  • 00:11:38
    your Iraq war he was standing in the
  • 00:11:41
    Oval Office hands in his pockets and
  • 00:11:44
    that took his hands out kind of his
  • 00:11:49
    hands flew in the air have it just very
  • 00:11:52
    aggressively and he said history we
  • 00:11:55
    won't know well
  • 00:11:57
    all be dead well he's ducking the
  • 00:12:01
    question but he's right
  • 00:12:05
    we don't know we're gonna be dead when
  • 00:12:07
    the final assessments come in and of
  • 00:12:12
    course as we've learned there's never a
  • 00:12:14
    final assessment
  • 00:12:19
    [Music]
  • 00:12:22
    all right so here we are finally ready
  • 00:12:25
    to start talking about the subject of
  • 00:12:27
    the episode
  • 00:12:28
    George Washington it was unanimously
  • 00:12:31
    elected in 1789 to be the first
  • 00:12:33
    President of the United States
  • 00:12:35
    Joel Achenbach a fellow reporter at the
  • 00:12:39
    post wrote a book about George
  • 00:12:40
    Washington called the grand idea George
  • 00:12:42
    Washington's Potomac and the race to the
  • 00:12:44
    west so I asked Joel what he thinks
  • 00:12:48
    tends to get overlooked or forgotten
  • 00:12:50
    today about who George Washington really
  • 00:12:53
    was you know Washington was so much more
  • 00:13:00
    interesting than we realized because
  • 00:13:03
    over time he's become the man on the
  • 00:13:06
    dollar bill
  • 00:13:07
    he's you think of him in that Gilbert
  • 00:13:10
    Stuart portrait as a kind of a stiff
  • 00:13:12
    figure you know gray haired and a
  • 00:13:16
    somewhat unknown famous person and so he
  • 00:13:21
    turns into a statue he turns into
  • 00:13:24
    someone who it's hard to picture him
  • 00:13:28
    actually animated and alive and in fact
  • 00:13:31
    he was a kind of like an action hero for
  • 00:13:36
    much of his life not just in the war not
  • 00:13:38
    just in the Revolutionary War where
  • 00:13:40
    obviously he was the commander of the
  • 00:13:42
    army and of a hero has spent eight and a
  • 00:13:45
    half years fighting for our independence
  • 00:13:47
    but even before then when he was in his
  • 00:13:50
    early 20s he kept getting in these these
  • 00:13:53
    misadventures you know the the
  • 00:13:55
    Jumonville ambush where he and his
  • 00:13:59
    allies ambushed a french officer and
  • 00:14:02
    that helps trigger the Seven Years War
  • 00:14:04
    known here as the French and Indian War
  • 00:14:07
    and soon after he has a fiasco at Fort
  • 00:14:10
    Necessity where he has to surrender and
  • 00:14:14
    gets gets parole but he easily could
  • 00:14:16
    have been
  • 00:14:18
    executed potentially and and was already
  • 00:14:21
    one of the most famous Americans at the
  • 00:14:24
    age of roughly 22 because of his
  • 00:14:28
    exploits he had a few personality traits
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    though that benefited him number one was
  • 00:14:38
    that he had no fear to an astonishing
  • 00:14:41
    degree he just simply never in his life
  • 00:14:44
    seemed to experience the emotion he just
  • 00:14:48
    had a way of instigating a lot of
  • 00:14:49
    trouble and somehow escaping it during
  • 00:14:53
    the you know the Braddock massacre in
  • 00:14:59
    1755 he had bullets flying around him I
  • 00:15:03
    think four bullets went through with his
  • 00:15:05
    cloak it had a couple horses shot out
  • 00:15:08
    from under him and somehow he survived
  • 00:15:10
    it was kind of like James Bond in the
  • 00:15:12
    movies he never actually gets shot for
  • 00:15:14
    some reason he had many skirmishes where
  • 00:15:16
    he could have died and and misadventures
  • 00:15:19
    in the back country but he was not he
  • 00:15:22
    was not not afraid and he was ambitious
  • 00:15:27
    he continued to have sort of champagne
  • 00:15:29
    tastes in a sense which is peculiar
  • 00:15:32
    because he was also this frontiersman at
  • 00:15:36
    times I mean he was like Daniel Boone he
  • 00:15:38
    would he's someone who slept out in the
  • 00:15:40
    open in the backwoods hundreds of miles
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    from the nearest city and was sort of
  • 00:15:47
    indestructible in that way even as
  • 00:15:49
    president he had some rough moments
  • 00:15:52
    where he would be caught in a
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    thunderstorm in a boat
  • 00:15:56
    and so on he did not live a than easy
  • 00:16:00
    life but he certainly did like the finer
  • 00:16:02
    things in life so how do you think those
  • 00:16:13
    exploits shaped his leadership style and
  • 00:16:16
    his approach to being president so he
  • 00:16:23
    must have felt that he had a
  • 00:16:25
    providential personal destiny by the
  • 00:16:28
    fact that he kept getting in these
  • 00:16:30
    scrapes and he kept surviving he had a
  • 00:16:34
    sense that he was a great man doing
  • 00:16:37
    something historic and he certainly felt
  • 00:16:39
    that about the country he thought that
  • 00:16:40
    America had was was gifted by Providence
  • 00:16:44
    you know essentially that it was our it
  • 00:16:48
    was our destiny to become a great
  • 00:16:50
    country part of his personality was that
  • 00:16:54
    he did instill in people a great deal of
  • 00:16:57
    just obedience and reverence and he was
  • 00:17:01
    the kind of leader who in a pinch in a
  • 00:17:05
    battle he would be upfront he was not
  • 00:17:08
    someone who would be sitting back you
  • 00:17:11
    know two hills over watching his men in
  • 00:17:13
    a skirmish he'd be right up there at
  • 00:17:16
    great personal risk and as as president
  • 00:17:19
    he had to deal with the rise of
  • 00:17:23
    partisanship something he had no
  • 00:17:24
    interest in so he was always sort of
  • 00:17:26
    caught in the middle but he was the only
  • 00:17:28
    person who could have kept the country
  • 00:17:34
    together I think in those first really
  • 00:17:37
    stormy years he was the only person who
  • 00:17:39
    commanded respect from all directions
  • 00:17:43
    politically every and everyone respected
  • 00:17:46
    Washington that's what was a really
  • 00:17:48
    handy thing to have for a young country
  • 00:17:50
    is to have a president who is not
  • 00:17:52
    divisive we don't have that today
  • 00:17:56
    obviously
  • 00:17:58
    and you can kind of wonder how often in
  • 00:18:00
    American history have we ever had that
  • 00:18:02
    not very often but for a young country
  • 00:18:05
    to have someone like Washington who was
  • 00:18:08
    clearly the person who you needed to
  • 00:18:12
    have as leader and who was willing to do
  • 00:18:15
    that job and to serve in the best
  • 00:18:21
    interest of the country and that was a
  • 00:18:23
    really kind of lucky break for us he had
  • 00:18:27
    a vision for this young country somehow
  • 00:18:32
    growing into a powerful country and that
  • 00:18:35
    was at a time when it was not obvious at
  • 00:18:37
    all that that could happen or would
  • 00:18:38
    happen with the the United States when
  • 00:18:41
    it was first formed it had a smattering
  • 00:18:44
    of former colonies now states that were
  • 00:18:48
    essentially their own countries when
  • 00:18:50
    Thomas Jefferson referred to my country
  • 00:18:52
    he meant Virginia and it was Washington
  • 00:18:55
    who figured out how can we take these
  • 00:18:58
    different states and actually cohere
  • 00:19:01
    them into a true nation so this part of
  • 00:19:06
    his life of being the the woodsman the
  • 00:19:10
    canal builder the Explorer the the
  • 00:19:16
    person who kept lighting out for the
  • 00:19:18
    wilderness and going over the mountains
  • 00:19:21
    and going you know down the Ohio River
  • 00:19:23
    at a time when well could do landowner
  • 00:19:28
    just didn't do that his his sort of
  • 00:19:31
    appreciation and feeling for the country
  • 00:19:35
    at the level of the landscape the rivers
  • 00:19:38
    the mountains the you know what what
  • 00:19:41
    passed for roads then this was someone
  • 00:19:43
    who probably knew the country physically
  • 00:19:46
    better than anyone else of his time and
  • 00:19:48
    he knew in his head that if he wanted to
  • 00:19:51
    keep the country together you had to
  • 00:19:54
    create what he called the cement of
  • 00:19:56
    interest among people or between people
  • 00:20:00
    so that people in the West would feel
  • 00:20:02
    connected to the people in the east and
  • 00:20:04
    would not feel connected just to whoever
  • 00:20:07
    was down the
  • 00:20:08
    hi or Mississippi River in New Orleans
  • 00:20:10
    Washington more than anyone else of his
  • 00:20:13
    day except for maybe Benjamin Franklin
  • 00:20:16
    had the big picture about American
  • 00:20:20
    destiny in the future of the country and
  • 00:20:23
    of course that was a vision that turned
  • 00:20:28
    out very badly for the Native Americans
  • 00:20:30
    it was also a vision that never entering
  • 00:20:34
    the colonial era and during the
  • 00:20:35
    Revolutionary era resolved the the great
  • 00:20:40
    tragic stain of slavery Washington was
  • 00:20:44
    not a perfect man by any stretch of the
  • 00:20:47
    imagination and you could easily impose
  • 00:20:51
    some of our current values upon him and
  • 00:20:54
    his time and find him not meeting what
  • 00:20:59
    we would expect the most obvious example
  • 00:21:01
    is that he was a slave owner who did not
  • 00:21:06
    free slaves in his own lifetime only in
  • 00:21:09
    his will and then stipulating that they
  • 00:21:12
    be free free - only after his wife died
  • 00:21:16
    and at the same time when you look at
  • 00:21:20
    him in the context of his time he he did
  • 00:21:24
    something that for example Thomas
  • 00:21:25
    Jefferson didn't do Jefferson didn't
  • 00:21:28
    free his slaves in his will except for
  • 00:21:31
    just as a few of them and what the
  • 00:21:35
    Washington know he knew that slavery was
  • 00:21:39
    wrong and did take steps to make clear
  • 00:21:44
    that this was not this was not something
  • 00:21:46
    that met the the values of the country
  • 00:21:50
    and there is no one else in American
  • 00:21:53
    history as important as George
  • 00:21:55
    Washington and with all due respect to
  • 00:21:57
    Abraham Lincoln for example and I think
  • 00:22:01
    even Lincoln would acknowledge that so
  • 00:22:04
    Lincoln save the country but Washington
  • 00:22:07
    made the country
  • 00:22:09
    and minee made it in part through sheer
  • 00:22:16
    force of will and yes through optimism
  • 00:22:20
    through vision through wanting to do
  • 00:22:23
    something big
  • 00:22:24
    [Music]
  • 00:22:33
    one of the big thing is that a lot of
  • 00:22:35
    people know about George Washington is
  • 00:22:37
    how possibly his greatest act was giving
  • 00:22:40
    up power and relinquishing the
  • 00:22:42
    presidency after two terms that's what
  • 00:22:45
    really solidified America's democracy I
  • 00:22:48
    want to look a little bit more closely
  • 00:22:50
    though at what exactly he was wrestling
  • 00:22:53
    with when he took on the role of
  • 00:22:54
    president to begin with even during his
  • 00:22:57
    time in office he was still sorting
  • 00:22:59
    through what it meant to be a president
  • 00:23:01
    rather than a king I figured the best
  • 00:23:04
    way to get inside his thoughts was to
  • 00:23:06
    turn to his papers and that meant
  • 00:23:09
    turning to the Library of Congress the
  • 00:23:13
    Library of Congress is possibly my
  • 00:23:15
    favorite building in Washington it's
  • 00:23:17
    this just gorgeous space and it sits
  • 00:23:20
    near the Supreme Court and the Capitol
  • 00:23:21
    building and it houses the original
  • 00:23:24
    papers of just about every American
  • 00:23:27
    president from the Washington Post
  • 00:23:29
    building it's actually only about a
  • 00:23:31
    10-minute metro ride so I packed up my
  • 00:23:37
    recorder in my notebook and I headed
  • 00:23:39
    over there to meet with Julie Miller
  • 00:23:40
    Julie Miller is a historian at the
  • 00:23:43
    Library of Congress who specializes in
  • 00:23:44
    early American history and she's
  • 00:23:47
    basically the main keeper of George
  • 00:23:49
    Washington's papers and she brought out
  • 00:23:51
    these big heavy archive books that
  • 00:23:53
    contain Washington's delicate and
  • 00:23:55
    yellowed letters with his perfect
  • 00:23:58
    cursive handwriting what's your sense of
  • 00:24:01
    what you know most people overlook about
  • 00:24:05
    him or don't well my life about who he
  • 00:24:09
    is and my sense is that most people
  • 00:24:11
    don't really know who Washington was at
  • 00:24:13
    all and they think of him as being a
  • 00:24:15
    symbol or an icon and to some extent he
  • 00:24:18
    contributed to that himself even in his
  • 00:24:20
    lifetime he was very concerned about his
  • 00:24:22
    own image while at the same time being
  • 00:24:26
    rather modest but I think one of the
  • 00:24:30
    things that libraries like this one do
  • 00:24:33
    is we collect papers of these presidents
  • 00:24:37
    so that every generation of historians
  • 00:24:39
    can go back and look at them again and
  • 00:24:41
    bring new questions
  • 00:24:43
    to them so that we're not reliant on
  • 00:24:46
    this very remote image of somebody like
  • 00:24:51
    Washington that is that has to do with
  • 00:24:53
    myth-making I think to a great extent
  • 00:24:55
    but because we have his papers that
  • 00:24:58
    document all kinds of very interesting
  • 00:24:59
    aspects of his personal life for example
  • 00:25:02
    we really can develop a sense of what he
  • 00:25:04
    was like and one of the most important
  • 00:25:06
    aspects of that is that he was very much
  • 00:25:08
    a man of the 18th century and and one of
  • 00:25:11
    the things that contributed to his image
  • 00:25:13
    into his power is that he was considered
  • 00:25:16
    an exemplary eighteenth-century
  • 00:25:19
    gentleman so what does that mean that
  • 00:25:21
    something that writing over it's you
  • 00:25:23
    know we don't meet a lot of exemplary
  • 00:25:25
    eighteenth-century gentleman walking
  • 00:25:27
    around the states but in the 18th
  • 00:25:28
    century obviously this was something
  • 00:25:30
    that everyone immediately identified and
  • 00:25:32
    some of it was external it had to do
  • 00:25:34
    with how it carried himself and how he
  • 00:25:35
    appeared and his social graces he was a
  • 00:25:38
    good horseman he was a good dancer that
  • 00:25:40
    sort of thing and people paid attention
  • 00:25:42
    to that sort of thing is very popular
  • 00:25:44
    with women but he was you attractive yes
  • 00:25:47
    it was
  • 00:25:48
    yo-yo yeah he was he was considered that
  • 00:25:50
    was considered going to to see if I
  • 00:25:52
    could say that if I were being set up on
  • 00:25:58
    a blind date with George Washington he
  • 00:26:00
    was married I just you know how would
  • 00:26:13
    you describe him and well I mean if you
  • 00:26:15
    were going on a blind date with him
  • 00:26:16
    right like say it's like you know 1757
  • 00:26:20
    okay just pretend you're going on a
  • 00:26:22
    blind date with George Washington first
  • 00:26:23
    of all you'd be very impressed because
  • 00:26:24
    he was really good-looking right yes you
  • 00:26:26
    know he was he had just finished a
  • 00:26:30
    leadership role in the French and Indian
  • 00:26:32
    War and all this um you would have found
  • 00:26:35
    that he was extremely charming if you
  • 00:26:37
    went to a dance or something really good
  • 00:26:39
    dancer beautifully dressed at that
  • 00:26:42
    period of his life he was ordering lots
  • 00:26:43
    of really fashionable clothing from
  • 00:26:49
    England to where you know you really
  • 00:26:51
    liked that sort of thing he would have
  • 00:26:53
    looked really good George Washington but
  • 00:26:57
    one thing you would have wanted to be
  • 00:27:00
    aware of is that he was not a
  • 00:27:04
    particularly rich person and he was
  • 00:27:07
    anxious to expand his holdings and if
  • 00:27:10
    you were a rich widow as Martha Custis
  • 00:27:13
    was he would definitely be interested in
  • 00:27:15
    your money it would mean to didn't you
  • 00:27:16
    but he would be interested in your money
  • 00:27:18
    I know he I mean you didn't marry Martha
  • 00:27:20
    Washington just for her money but he
  • 00:27:23
    married her for her money
  • 00:27:24
    so you know he was he was calculating I
  • 00:27:27
    think to that extent the other thing is
  • 00:27:30
    that his get a great deal of self
  • 00:27:32
    control but one of the reasons he had to
  • 00:27:35
    have so much to self controls was
  • 00:27:36
    because he had quite a lot of emotion a
  • 00:27:38
    lot of that emotion you know we've seen
  • 00:27:40
    that he was he was susceptible to
  • 00:27:42
    feeling in ways that we might find
  • 00:27:44
    attractive but he was also pretty angry
  • 00:27:46
    sometimes so we have for example letters
  • 00:27:49
    that he wrote particular didn't lead to
  • 00:27:51
    people who owed him money very angry
  • 00:27:53
    letters so you wouldn't want to get on
  • 00:27:55
    the wrong side of him
  • 00:27:57
    so I mean it does seem the lake for the
  • 00:28:00
    most part a lot of that sort of
  • 00:28:05
    mythology and the iconic imagery of him
  • 00:28:09
    seems pretty true to who he was though
  • 00:28:12
    right I mean well I think um he you know
  • 00:28:16
    the cherry tree neat business and yeah
  • 00:28:19
    well what that's about is there was
  • 00:28:22
    someone called Mason wings who wrote a
  • 00:28:25
    biography of Washington and you know did
  • 00:28:28
    he make that stuff all up it's actually
  • 00:28:30
    a little unclear that he actually made
  • 00:28:31
    it all up there may have been some roots
  • 00:28:32
    of truth and some of that it doesn't
  • 00:28:35
    have too much to do with Washington what
  • 00:28:36
    it really tells us is that Washington
  • 00:28:39
    was a person who attracted myth-making
  • 00:28:42
    in other words people wanted to tell
  • 00:28:43
    stories about Washington and to some
  • 00:28:47
    extent he himself was you know behind
  • 00:28:51
    that a little bit because he was so self
  • 00:28:53
    controlled and so concerned about his
  • 00:28:54
    image and so concerned about appearance
  • 00:28:56
    not not
  • 00:28:57
    you know entirely because he was some of
  • 00:29:00
    it was in security and I think about his
  • 00:29:02
    education for example but some of it was
  • 00:29:04
    out of I think of a sense of
  • 00:29:05
    responsibility towards his roles the
  • 00:29:08
    first President of the United States you
  • 00:29:10
    know you wanted to make a good
  • 00:29:11
    presentation but he was very very
  • 00:29:15
    charismatic in other words he people
  • 00:29:17
    looked at him and they really saw him as
  • 00:29:19
    being the most you know ideal person
  • 00:29:24
    that they had ever seen and they you
  • 00:29:26
    know he that he gave that impression
  • 00:29:28
    throughout his life you know so and that
  • 00:29:32
    that was how people perceived him and to
  • 00:29:35
    some extent he supported it so for
  • 00:29:36
    example when he was president he went on
  • 00:29:39
    a couple of tours of the country to sort
  • 00:29:41
    of introduce himself to people and when
  • 00:29:44
    he was on one of these tours they were
  • 00:29:47
    you know you're riding a wagon they're
  • 00:29:49
    like a carriage and when he would
  • 00:29:51
    approach a town he get out they would
  • 00:29:53
    stop get out get on his white horse
  • 00:29:55
    right through the town on the white
  • 00:29:57
    horse some people would see him injured
  • 00:29:59
    on a white horse because he knew that's
  • 00:30:02
    what they wanted to see uh-huh and then
  • 00:30:04
    when he passed through he get off the
  • 00:30:07
    white horse get back in but Washington
  • 00:30:12
    embodied self control self-abnegation
  • 00:30:16
    and modesty in the 18th century when
  • 00:30:19
    political figures wrote things they
  • 00:30:21
    wrote them anonymously they took
  • 00:30:22
    pseudonyms when they wrote the idea was
  • 00:30:24
    that if you were writing something some
  • 00:30:27
    political essay for example it didn't
  • 00:30:30
    have to do with you
  • 00:30:31
    it really just had to do with the ideas
  • 00:30:33
    that you were writing about so you would
  • 00:30:34
    use a pseudonym of some kind did he did
  • 00:30:38
    he have a standard synonym or Washington
  • 00:30:41
    Washington did not do a lot of
  • 00:30:43
    analytical writing no he was not like
  • 00:30:44
    Jefferson or Adams or Hamilton in that
  • 00:30:48
    respect in fact one of the interesting
  • 00:30:51
    things about Washington is that he had a
  • 00:30:54
    very limited education and he you know
  • 00:31:00
    he was aware of
  • 00:31:01
    and he he I think is a testament to his
  • 00:31:06
    self-confidence he had no trouble
  • 00:31:09
    surrounding himself with people who had
  • 00:31:11
    a better education and received their
  • 00:31:14
    guidance when he needed it one of the
  • 00:31:16
    examples of things that I've gathered up
  • 00:31:19
    to talk about has to do with the many
  • 00:31:23
    many times that Washington said things
  • 00:31:24
    like I am not competent to be president
  • 00:31:27
    or I am not competent to be the
  • 00:31:30
    commander of the Continental Army and
  • 00:31:32
    it's and it's really interesting so and
  • 00:31:35
    he often said it in a very sort of
  • 00:31:37
    emotional way and I'll just you want to
  • 00:31:39
    hear some examples or just give me some
  • 00:31:41
    examples of what I mean by that so for
  • 00:31:42
    example and you think he meant agenda no
  • 00:31:47
    idea coincidentally no I think he meant
  • 00:31:50
    to genuinely and I think he he felt that
  • 00:31:53
    when he expressed his self-doubt that
  • 00:31:57
    people would not see that his weakness
  • 00:31:59
    but that they would see it as a strength
  • 00:32:01
    in other words that they would
  • 00:32:02
    understand his ability to be in touch
  • 00:32:05
    with his emotions and to express his his
  • 00:32:10
    humility and modesty that these were
  • 00:32:13
    positive qualities in other words the
  • 00:32:15
    culture that people lived in at the time
  • 00:32:16
    that George Washington was alive was
  • 00:32:18
    very different from a culture that we
  • 00:32:19
    live in now in certain respects and
  • 00:32:21
    that's one of them yet modesty was
  • 00:32:24
    something that people really valued in
  • 00:32:26
    other words you know we're in the middle
  • 00:32:27
    of a presidential election now I don't
  • 00:32:30
    think any of the candidates for example
  • 00:32:31
    would say I am not qualified to do this
  • 00:32:33
    job Washington said that publicly over
  • 00:32:36
    and over Washington was pressed to be
  • 00:32:40
    president in other words people felt
  • 00:32:41
    that he was the leader the most natural
  • 00:32:44
    leader and he didn't really want to do
  • 00:32:46
    it so let me just show you here I have
  • 00:32:49
    some there's a whole stream of examples
  • 00:32:56
    where Washington expressed self-doubt
  • 00:33:01
    about his ability to be president and
  • 00:33:04
    unwillingness to be President so for
  • 00:33:06
    example in his diary he wrote as he was
  • 00:33:11
    setting off from Mount Vernon to New
  • 00:33:13
    York he came to New York to service
  • 00:33:20
    president and he wrote in his diary
  • 00:33:22
    about ten o'clock I bade adieu to Mount
  • 00:33:25
    Vernon to private life to domestic
  • 00:33:27
    Felicity and with a mind oppressed with
  • 00:33:30
    more anxious and painful sensations then
  • 00:33:33
    I have words to express set out for New
  • 00:33:35
    York
  • 00:33:37
    this is his diary so this is private
  • 00:33:40
    right so he said the same thing publicly
  • 00:33:42
    so he wrote to Charles Thompson who was
  • 00:33:45
    the guy who was sent to get him and he
  • 00:33:48
    wrote I am so much affected by this
  • 00:33:51
    fresh proof of my country's esteem and
  • 00:33:53
    confidence that silence can best explain
  • 00:33:55
    my gratitude while I realized the
  • 00:33:57
    arduous nature of the task which is
  • 00:33:59
    conferred on me and feel my inability to
  • 00:34:01
    perform it I wish there may not be
  • 00:34:04
    reason for regretting the choice all I
  • 00:34:07
    can promise is only that which can be
  • 00:34:09
    accomplished by an honest zeal other
  • 00:34:11
    words I'll do my best but no no you know
  • 00:34:15
    and then he wrote someone wrote to
  • 00:34:17
    congratulate him and he wrote I should
  • 00:34:22
    start this I feel for those members of
  • 00:34:24
    the new Congress who hit her to have
  • 00:34:26
    given an unavailing attendance at the
  • 00:34:28
    theater this Boulevard for myself though
  • 00:34:30
    a little of that my movements to the
  • 00:34:33
    chair okay so he's on his way right so
  • 00:34:36
    he wrote about my movements to the chair
  • 00:34:38
    of government in other words my trip
  • 00:34:39
    from Virginia to New York will be
  • 00:34:40
    accompanied with feelings not unlike
  • 00:34:43
    those of a culprit who was gone to the
  • 00:34:44
    place of his execution because so
  • 00:34:47
    unwilling am i in the evening of a life
  • 00:34:49
    nearly consumed in public cares to quit
  • 00:34:52
    a peaceful abode for an ocean of
  • 00:34:54
    difficulties without without that
  • 00:34:56
    competency of political skill abilities
  • 00:34:59
    and inclination which is necessary to
  • 00:35:01
    manage the hell so that's his
  • 00:35:04
    he's admitting he's saying I'm really
  • 00:35:06
    not very well prepared to do this now no
  • 00:35:08
    one else believed that everyone else
  • 00:35:09
    felt that he was very well prepared to
  • 00:35:11
    do it right let an army and so on so
  • 00:35:14
    he's being modest
  • 00:35:16
    but people admired this in him in other
  • 00:35:18
    words they didn't feel that this was a
  • 00:35:20
    problem I felt that this was according
  • 00:35:22
    to their understanding of what a
  • 00:35:24
    leadership you like this was desirable
  • 00:35:27
    leader should be somebody who's modest
  • 00:35:29
    self-abnegation emotional and yet
  • 00:35:32
    willing to control himself in other
  • 00:35:35
    words even if he feels emotional he
  • 00:35:37
    doesn't he supposed to do gets on his
  • 00:35:39
    horse to go Senora so to what extent do
  • 00:35:43
    you think that's him just being smart
  • 00:35:48
    about the time he lives in and what he
  • 00:35:50
    has to say to appeal to the people to be
  • 00:35:54
    in that role I mean is it genuine that's
  • 00:35:57
    a good question first ear it said this
  • 00:35:59
    is what you say to sound like a leader
  • 00:36:01
    that's what I did her sounds like I
  • 00:36:03
    think it was genuine he's I do not
  • 00:36:05
    believe he was making any of this up he
  • 00:36:06
    was not this is what he felt and this is
  • 00:36:08
    what he said but he was very very
  • 00:36:12
    conscious of appearances all his life
  • 00:36:15
    before he was president and while he was
  • 00:36:17
    president I have something really really
  • 00:36:18
    interesting about that skip I should I
  • 00:36:22
    carry my piles and piles of stuff one of
  • 00:36:25
    the really interesting things that we
  • 00:36:27
    have in the George Washington papers is
  • 00:36:29
    we have all kinds of records of
  • 00:36:32
    Washington's personal financial life so
  • 00:36:35
    one of the things we have is a little
  • 00:36:37
    book that was kept by a secretary who
  • 00:36:40
    was actually George Martha Washington's
  • 00:36:42
    nephew or Thommy Dandridge it was a
  • 00:36:45
    little record of daily expenses of the
  • 00:36:47
    household when they lived in
  • 00:36:48
    Philadelphia when Washington was
  • 00:36:50
    president so there's tons of the stuff
  • 00:36:53
    about table ornaments curtains wine
  • 00:36:56
    coolers he's gone on and on and the
  • 00:37:00
    reason for this is because the house
  • 00:37:02
    where they lived was not only a private
  • 00:37:04
    home but it was the president's house it
  • 00:37:07
    was the place where there would be
  • 00:37:08
    public receptions and dinners and he
  • 00:37:11
    really really
  • 00:37:12
    learn about appearances and he says so
  • 00:37:15
    one of these letters so what kind of
  • 00:37:20
    what kind of image is he trying to crack
  • 00:37:24
    difference hello what does he what does
  • 00:37:26
    he want one of the things he was really
  • 00:37:28
    worried about and at one point he
  • 00:37:29
    reached out to John Adams Alexander
  • 00:37:32
    Hamilton and a few others was making
  • 00:37:35
    sure that foreign powers understood that
  • 00:37:37
    the United States was a legitimate
  • 00:37:39
    country and he himself had never been to
  • 00:37:42
    a foreign country other than I guess
  • 00:37:43
    Barbados in his youth but some of the
  • 00:37:46
    people he knew had so for example John
  • 00:37:48
    Adams and Thomas Jefferson had both
  • 00:37:51
    served as diplomats abroad anyone in in
  • 00:37:54
    France
  • 00:37:55
    Jefferson spent a long time in France
  • 00:37:57
    and Adams spent pretty much time in
  • 00:37:59
    England and they knew how things were
  • 00:38:01
    done in foreign courts and the
  • 00:38:03
    Washington did not so he asked them for
  • 00:38:05
    advice and they sort of impressed upon
  • 00:38:08
    him Adams in particular and Hamilton
  • 00:38:11
    impressed upon him that you know if you
  • 00:38:13
    want to be taken seriously you have to
  • 00:38:16
    think about what diplomats from these
  • 00:38:18
    countries are going to expect based upon
  • 00:38:20
    what they have seen at home other words
  • 00:38:22
    they've seen you know people dressed up
  • 00:38:24
    in special suits and stuff like that and
  • 00:38:28
    you know so so Washington who you know
  • 00:38:31
    grew up you're not poor but not rich you
  • 00:38:34
    know in a in you know on in rural places
  • 00:38:37
    in Virginia which was really a colonial
  • 00:38:41
    backwater you know I can say that at the
  • 00:38:43
    time that he was growing up and he was
  • 00:38:47
    really he really understood that this
  • 00:38:48
    was a worldly did not know the world of
  • 00:38:50
    you know foreign ministers and so on and
  • 00:38:53
    so forth so he he really was concerned
  • 00:38:56
    that you know the house really looked
  • 00:39:00
    like a center of government he's going
  • 00:39:03
    on and on about he's concerned for
  • 00:39:05
    example he's concerned about wine
  • 00:39:07
    coolers because he says when he passed
  • 00:39:09
    the bottles around one bottle moves and
  • 00:39:11
    other stops and all are in confusion
  • 00:39:13
    this is really disturbing to him he
  • 00:39:16
    thinks that if you're gonna have a state
  • 00:39:17
    dinner you don't want the bottles in
  • 00:39:19
    confusion it's not a good thing so he
  • 00:39:22
    has a really good idea and the idea
  • 00:39:24
    is that he's gonna have a wine cooler
  • 00:39:25
    with room for several bottles with
  • 00:39:28
    casters on casters so you could just
  • 00:39:30
    roll it
  • 00:39:31
    they usually invented this idea so he
  • 00:39:34
    asked Tobias Lee her secretary to find
  • 00:39:36
    out what it would cost to get something
  • 00:39:38
    like that made out of silver and then he
  • 00:39:40
    goes on and he says oh he's here he's
  • 00:39:44
    going on and on about table arguments
  • 00:39:45
    again you can't imagine there's so much
  • 00:39:47
    see what are you saying is hearing him
  • 00:39:50
    on the first president I've got this
  • 00:39:52
    house in Philadelphia members of foreign
  • 00:39:55
    legations are gonna come we're gonna
  • 00:39:58
    have state dinners and it's got a look
  • 00:40:00
    to these people the way the way they're
  • 00:40:02
    used to such places looking you know it
  • 00:40:05
    should look like what they're used to
  • 00:40:07
    seeing in France what they're used to
  • 00:40:09
    seeing at the European Court so he's
  • 00:40:12
    worried about that I mean what do you
  • 00:40:15
    feel like were some of the really key
  • 00:40:18
    things he did or the attributes he had
  • 00:40:21
    that sort of set the course for us to
  • 00:40:24
    think of the presidency a certain way
  • 00:40:26
    that if it had been someone else who was
  • 00:40:29
    president first you know well he I mean
  • 00:40:33
    I think Washington kind of carry the
  • 00:40:34
    presidency on the strength of his of his
  • 00:40:36
    character and his personality and I
  • 00:40:39
    think that's why people wanted him but
  • 00:40:41
    he didn't you know that's the thing you
  • 00:40:42
    could see he himself was brilliant
  • 00:40:44
    secure even though other people thought
  • 00:40:46
    this about him and one of the things he
  • 00:40:49
    did as I was saying before how he asked
  • 00:40:51
    for advice periodically and one of the
  • 00:40:54
    things he did was he he asked for advice
  • 00:40:57
    about etiquette and we'll see that
  • 00:40:59
    Jefferson did the same but Jefferson was
  • 00:41:02
    much more shall I say devious and did it
  • 00:41:07
    a slightly different tone so Washington
  • 00:41:11
    in an effort to kind of set up his
  • 00:41:15
    presidency in other words to establish
  • 00:41:17
    how things would be done he was really
  • 00:41:19
    worried about etiquette in other words
  • 00:41:21
    who should the president need when
  • 00:41:23
    should he meet him you know and how
  • 00:41:26
    could he sort of control access to
  • 00:41:27
    himself so that he has enough time to
  • 00:41:30
    get his work done and he didn't want to
  • 00:41:32
    seem too royal you know there was a
  • 00:41:34
    debate about for example what's called
  • 00:41:35
    the president
  • 00:41:36
    it was really conscious of the fact that
  • 00:41:38
    he wasn't a king he didn't want to be a
  • 00:41:40
    king but he didn't want to be too much
  • 00:41:43
    of the people either he needed to
  • 00:41:45
    establish himself you know in other
  • 00:41:47
    words people had expectations of liberty
  • 00:41:50
    and equality and it was a republic after
  • 00:41:53
    all not a monarchy but they also
  • 00:41:55
    expected to have a leader and he he was
  • 00:41:58
    the one who had to figure out at the
  • 00:41:59
    outset how to use his time and how to
  • 00:42:02
    use his person in order to establish
  • 00:42:07
    just how kingly are not kingly the
  • 00:42:11
    president was to be because there was no
  • 00:42:12
    people had no experience of having a
  • 00:42:15
    president they had an experience of
  • 00:42:16
    having a king I've heard remote King
  • 00:42:18
    Americans I've met obviously but still
  • 00:42:22
    you know they so you know again will
  • 00:42:24
    should they call him your highness what
  • 00:42:25
    should they do that you know I mean
  • 00:42:26
    Congress meant to discuss Thyssen they
  • 00:42:28
    debated it actually very hotly so then
  • 00:42:33
    do you think he nailed it I don't well I
  • 00:42:36
    think he tried really really hard so for
  • 00:42:39
    example he so he wrote this sort of
  • 00:42:41
    formulator to a bunch of people Adams
  • 00:42:44
    and Hamilton among them and he concluded
  • 00:42:47
    by saying many things which appear of
  • 00:42:49
    little importance themselves and at the
  • 00:42:50
    beginning may have great and durable
  • 00:42:52
    consequences from their having been
  • 00:42:54
    established at the commencement of a new
  • 00:42:56
    government it will be much easier
  • 00:42:57
    commenced the administration upon a well
  • 00:42:59
    adjusted system built on tenable grounds
  • 00:43:02
    and to correct errors or alter
  • 00:43:04
    inconveniences after they shall have
  • 00:43:06
    been confirmed by habit in other words
  • 00:43:07
    he wanted to be sure that things started
  • 00:43:10
    off right and that he was responsible
  • 00:43:12
    for doing that because he was the first
  • 00:43:14
    so he he said you know he had this whole
  • 00:43:19
    list of questions well what if I want to
  • 00:43:21
    go have a tea go to a tea party at my
  • 00:43:22
    friend's house while other people did
  • 00:43:24
    jealous because I haven't given them a
  • 00:43:25
    you know the same amount of time how do
  • 00:43:28
    i distinguish between me just me and me
  • 00:43:31
    the presidents you know he was really
  • 00:43:32
    worried so he wrote these questions and
  • 00:43:35
    we have a couple of replies
  • 00:43:38
    from Hamilton and from Adams so and they
  • 00:43:42
    you know they wrote different things and
  • 00:43:44
    what Adams you know had this European
  • 00:43:47
    experience so he wrote basically he said
  • 00:43:51
    you know there's nothing like the
  • 00:43:52
    president so it's really you know hard
  • 00:43:54
    to figure out I'm paraphrasing obviously
  • 00:43:56
    you know what to do because you know we
  • 00:43:58
    really haven't had exactly this office
  • 00:44:01
    before but then he sort of warns him and
  • 00:44:03
    he says basically that you know peepees
  • 00:44:07
    these foreign ministers are gonna come
  • 00:44:09
    from abroad expect and these are his
  • 00:44:12
    words a splendor and majesty in some
  • 00:44:14
    degree so in other words we have to have
  • 00:44:17
    some ceremony other words otherwise
  • 00:44:18
    people really won't take us seriously
  • 00:44:20
    especially you know for people who come
  • 00:44:22
    from countries where people dress in
  • 00:44:23
    crowns and Herman and scepters all the
  • 00:44:26
    stuff we don't have any that we don't
  • 00:44:27
    want any of that but nonetheless you
  • 00:44:30
    have to have something so that's what
  • 00:44:32
    all the fussing or the table ornaments
  • 00:44:33
    is about because Washington is really
  • 00:44:35
    worried you know he's thinking just how
  • 00:44:38
    ceremonial and exclusive he should be or
  • 00:44:42
    you know like there's a fine line he had
  • 00:44:45
    a balance between that and being open
  • 00:44:48
    and available
  • 00:44:51
    [Music]
  • 00:45:06
    so that balance Washington was trying to
  • 00:45:08
    strike between coming off as open and
  • 00:45:10
    democratic yet at the same time powerful
  • 00:45:13
    and important well that same tension
  • 00:45:15
    plagued the design of the Washington
  • 00:45:18
    Monument and actually a lot of our other
  • 00:45:20
    presidential memorials up through the
  • 00:45:22
    present day in fact early on there was a
  • 00:45:24
    real reluctance to have any big
  • 00:45:27
    monuments at all to u.s. presidents it
  • 00:45:29
    just seemed too royal in our next
  • 00:45:34
    episode we'll take a look at how we did
  • 00:45:35
    end up with some very big monuments in
  • 00:45:38
    DC and how they've played a significant
  • 00:45:40
    role in shaping presidential legacy and
  • 00:45:42
    which presidents we think are most
  • 00:45:45
    significant for that I'll be talking
  • 00:45:47
    with Phillip Kennecott the Post's
  • 00:45:49
    Pulitzer prize-winning art and
  • 00:45:51
    architecture critic you might be
  • 00:45:53
    thinking is in Episode two about John
  • 00:45:55
    Adams yes it is and the amazing writer
  • 00:45:59
    and historian David McCullough who also
  • 00:46:01
    won a Pulitzer Prize we'll be talking
  • 00:46:03
    all about John Adams next week but the
  • 00:46:07
    reason we'll also be talking about
  • 00:46:08
    monuments is that there's an interesting
  • 00:46:10
    back story about how Adams doesn't have
  • 00:46:12
    a monument in DC even though for more
  • 00:46:15
    than a decade there's been an effort
  • 00:46:16
    underway to get him one
  • 00:46:27
    special thanks this week to our featured
  • 00:46:29
    guests Bob Woodward Joel Achenbach and
  • 00:46:32
    Julie Miller and a big THANK YOU to the
  • 00:46:34
    staff at the Library of Congress who
  • 00:46:36
    have all been so helpful and to my many
  • 00:46:38
    colleagues at the post who helped get
  • 00:46:40
    this thing launched music for the
  • 00:46:43
    podcast is by Dave West nur and finally
  • 00:46:46
    my biggest thanks really goes to all of
  • 00:46:48
    you for listening to our first episode
  • 00:46:49
    and getting really excited about the
  • 00:46:51
    series I already know there are a ton of
  • 00:46:55
    you out there who have deep deep
  • 00:46:56
    interest and knowledge about many of the
  • 00:46:59
    upcoming presidents and some great ideas
  • 00:47:01
    for the stories and the questions you'd
  • 00:47:03
    like us to tackle so I would love to
  • 00:47:05
    hear from you
  • 00:47:06
    you can find us on Twitter and Instagram
  • 00:47:08
    at presidential underscore WP I'll also
  • 00:47:13
    be using Twitter and Instagram to share
  • 00:47:15
    fun historical images and quotes and
  • 00:47:17
    things like that from the president that
  • 00:47:19
    we're featuring each week so if you
  • 00:47:21
    haven't had enough of George Washington
  • 00:47:23
    you should check out presidential
  • 00:47:25
    underscore WP on those platforms to get
  • 00:47:29
    a your fix fixed to get your fix to get
  • 00:47:32
    your fix
  • 00:47:33
    and finally if you're not listening to
  • 00:47:38
    this podcast on iTunes you should think
  • 00:47:40
    about going there to iTunes com /
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    presidential you can subscribe for free
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    and that way you get all our episodes as
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    soon as they come out every Sunday
  • 00:47:51
    [Music]
  • 00:47:52
    thanks again for listening and we'll be
  • 00:47:55
    back next week to talk John heavens
  • 00:47:59
    [Music]
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