Struggles for Self-Determination in the 21st Century: Perspectives from Africa – Focus on Kenya

01:47:27
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbXm98uCIwc

Summary

TLDRThe symposium discussed self-determination struggles in the 21st century, with a focus on Africa, particularly Kenya. It brought together Grassroots activists and human rights defenders to discuss challenges like neoliberalism and neocolonialism. The event highlighted the significance of the Kurdish struggle, led by figurehead Abdullah Öcalan, as an inspiration for movements in Kenya and beyond. It was emphasized that despite challenges like police brutality, extrajudicial killings, and privatization, the resistance continues through Grassroots movements and arts like theater, which are instrumental in raising awareness and empowering communities. The symposium advocated for international solidarity and learning from the Kurdish struggle to drive movements in Africa. Issues like the negative impact of NGOs, the importance of socialist and democratic confederalist frameworks, and the vital role of law in activism were also addressed. Proposals for fostering international cooperation included organizing delegations, fostering unity through arts and culture, and enhancing communication between global activist networks.

Takeaways

  • 🎯 Focus on self-determination struggles in Kenya and globally.
  • ✊ Emphasis on Grassroots movements and human rights activism.
  • 🌍 Importance of international solidarity and cooperation.
  • 🎨 Use of arts and theater in activism for social change.
  • 📚 Need for educational resources and consciousness raising.
  • 🔨 Role of law in fighting injustices and mobilizing communities.
  • 💡 Challenges posed by neoliberalism and NGOs in activism.
  • 🌱 Inspiration from Kurdish struggle and Abdullah Öcalan.
  • 👥 Networking and collaborating across activist groups.
  • 🔗 Revitalizing socialist and democratic confederalist ideas.

Timeline

  • 00:00:00 - 00:05:00

    The introduction of the symposium focuses on struggles for self-determination in the 21st century, with representatives from various grassroots and activist movements, particularly from Kenya. They aim to address issues like anti-capitalism and neocolonialism, and the impact these have on communities globally. This segment introduces key speakers and their backgrounds.

  • 00:05:00 - 00:10:00

    The discussion includes references to the works of Kurdish leader Abdullah, highlighting his influence on struggles in Kenya. The symposium seeks to link international struggles, focusing on how Kenya and other regions draw inspiration from his ideas. The challenges of understanding these links are acknowledged, as well as successes of grassroots movements.

  • 00:10:00 - 00:15:00

    Participants are invited to share their opening remarks. A speaker emphasizes the international solidarity in struggles against neocolonialism, drawing parallels between Kenyan resistance and global movements. The significance of intellectual and grassroots collaboration is stressed, alongside a critique of neoliberalism's impact.

  • 00:15:00 - 00:20:00

    A detailed history of resistance in Kenya is provided, illustrating continuous struggles against colonial and post-independence oppression. The formation of social justice centers is highlighted as a foundation for contemporary activism, drawing on intellectual and grassroots networks to mobilize communities.

  • 00:20:00 - 00:25:00

    The significance of grassroots movements in resistance is discussed, with a focus on self-determination and organizing against systemic issues like extrajudicial killings and ecological injustice. The role of intellectual networks and literature in advancing these causes is also emphasized.

  • 00:25:00 - 00:30:00

    Speakers highlight the struggles with neocolonialism and privatization, critiquing the impact on local communities in Kenya. The discussion covers the use of theater as a tool for resistance, drawing on historical examples of its effectiveness in political movements. The involvement of various social justice centers is noted.

  • 00:30:00 - 00:35:00

    The intersection of art and activism is discussed further, with emphasis on theater as a mode of resistance. Presenters focus on its power to engage communities and address issues like privatization and systemic violence, arguing for its place within broader social justice efforts.

  • 00:35:00 - 00:40:00

    The discussion shifts to the challenges faced by activists, particularly the influence of NGOs in shaping movements. The tension between NGO involvement and grassroots activism is explored, drawing on examples from recent history. This segment critiques the neoliberalization of resistance movements.

  • 00:40:00 - 00:45:00

    The influence of external global entities like the IMF is highlighted as a major challenge for grassroots movements. There's a call to organize on an international level, linking struggles across the globe. Emphasis is placed on learning from each other's experiences to strengthen local and global activism.

  • 00:45:00 - 00:50:00

    Organizers stress the importance of tailoring political education to local contexts, particularly within Kenya. They advocate for grassroots organization and emphasize using cultural methods like theater to engage communities, which could inspire broader political consciousness and resistance movements.

  • 00:50:00 - 00:55:00

    The relationship between local struggles and international solidarity is explored, discussing how grassroots movements can partner with international networks for mutual support. There's a focus on aligning with international bodies to amplify local struggles, using past collaborative efforts as a guide.

  • 00:55:00 - 01:00:00

    Key challenges in enabling effective international solidarity are discussed, noting linguistic, cultural, and logistical barriers. The conversation stresses the importance of international coordination without diluting local struggles, emphasizing the need for global frameworks that support grassroots efforts.

  • 01:00:00 - 01:05:00

    The session reflects on historical Kenyan struggles and their relevance to contemporary global movements. There's a call to connect these movements internationally, learning from one another to build resilient networks against capitalism and imperialism.

  • 01:05:00 - 01:10:00

    The importance of diverse organizational structures is emphasized, suggesting multiple organizations work together rather than unifying under a single banner. There's a call to recognize and utilize existing strengths within varied organizational models, particularly drawing from localized community efforts.

  • 01:10:00 - 01:15:00

    Participants deliberate on how internationalist groups can support grassroots movements actively. They explore ways to create synergistic events and learning opportunities that transcend geographic boundaries, focusing on arts and culture as unifying tools.

  • 01:15:00 - 01:20:00

    A suggestion is made to organize international events or delegations to Kenya, encouraging direct engagement with local movements. This would aim to build solidarity and provide international perspectives that could enrich local strategies and consciousness.

  • 01:20:00 - 01:25:00

    The utility of virtual platforms for connecting international movements is discussed, acknowledging the complexity of global solidarity in practical terms. The need for both virtual and physical engagement is highlighted as strategies to strengthen international support.

  • 01:25:00 - 01:30:00

    The conversation includes reflections on Kurdish struggles, noting the interconnectedness of their fights with global liberation movements. This connection is suggested as a potential focus for fostering greater solidarity and support between diverse international movements.

  • 01:30:00 - 01:35:00

    The role of intellectual leadership and education in galvanizing movements is emphasized, noting the potential of academic and activist collaboration to forge new pathways for resistance. The session stresses the need for ongoing dialogue and exchange between different activist networks.

  • 01:35:00 - 01:47:27

    Concluding remarks focus on establishing robust, mutually beneficial networks that leverage both local insights and international support. There's an emphasis on action-oriented initiatives, fostering a global consciousness, and creating sustainable support systems for resistance.

Show more

Mind Map

Video Q&A

  • What was the primary focus of the symposium?

    The symposium focused on struggles for self-determination in the 21st century, with a particular emphasis on Kenya and its Grassroots movements.

  • Who was a key figure mentioned in relation to the Kurdish struggle?

    Abdullah Öcalan was a key figure mentioned in relation to the Kurdish struggle.

  • What challenges are being faced by communities in Kenya?

    Communities in Kenya are facing challenges such as police brutality, extrajudicial killings, privatization of basic services, and the negative impacts of neoliberal policies.

  • How is art used in Kenya's struggle for justice?

    Art, particularly theater, is used as a powerful tool to advocate for social change and raise awareness about issues like police brutality and housing rights in Kenya.

  • What historical connections were made during the symposium?

    The symposium made historical connections between the struggles in Kenya and the Kurdish people's fight for self-determination, emphasizing shared experiences of resistance and oppression.

  • What role does international solidarity play according to the symposium discussions?

    International solidarity is crucial for connecting struggles globally, amplifying voices against oppression, and learning from each other’s resistance movements.

  • What solutions were proposed for enhancing international cooperation?

    Proposals included organizing delegations, using arts and culture to foster unity, creating educational resources, and enhancing communication between different activist networks globally.

  • How are the concepts of socialism and democratic confederalism viewed in the context of these struggles?

    These concepts are viewed as frameworks that need revitalization to address current global struggles against imperialism and capitalism.

  • What is a significant issue with NGO involvement in social movements in Kenya?

    NGOs have often depoliticized and professionalized social movements in Kenya, making it challenging to mobilize genuine Grassroots activism.

  • What suggestions were given for using legal frameworks in activism?

    The use of public interest litigation and legal empowerment networks was suggested to mobilize communities around their constitutional rights and fight injustices like extrajudicial killings.

View more video summaries

Get instant access to free YouTube video summaries powered by AI!
Subtitles
en
Auto Scroll:
  • 00:00:00
    foreign
  • 00:00:05
    [Music]
  • 00:00:10
    okay good afternoon revolutionary
  • 00:00:12
    greetings welcome one and all I will I
  • 00:00:16
    will first thanks go to peace in
  • 00:00:17
    Kurdistan or pick as the acronym goes
  • 00:00:20
    completes the Stella
  • 00:00:22
    along Dion of the struggle and the key
  • 00:00:26
    driver
  • 00:00:26
    or a number of decades and more
  • 00:00:28
    importantly for bringing this together
  • 00:00:30
    this afternoon as well the focus of this
  • 00:00:33
    Symposium is struggles for
  • 00:00:34
    self-determination in the 21st century
  • 00:00:37
    perspectives from Africa and of course
  • 00:00:39
    the focus is on Kenya
  • 00:00:41
    and we have with us an illustrian group
  • 00:00:45
    of comrades from the Grassroots
  • 00:00:46
    movements and human rights and activist
  • 00:00:49
    backgrounds before I go to each of our
  • 00:00:52
    key individuals for this afternoon I'm
  • 00:00:54
    also acknowledged
  • 00:01:06
    a scholar academic activist and long
  • 00:01:08
    time activist for the Kurdish struggle
  • 00:01:12
    and Kurdish issues and in particular for
  • 00:01:14
    the release of Abdullah
  • 00:01:16
    the guests with us this afternoon is
  • 00:01:22
    comrades one jira one zero
  • 00:01:26
    and minu Kia I hope I've pronounced that
  • 00:01:30
    correctly the purpose of the Symposium
  • 00:01:33
    is simply to ensure that us together not
  • 00:01:36
    only as activists but as intellectuals
  • 00:01:39
    and organic intellectuals focus on the
  • 00:01:41
    issues that are primarily against the
  • 00:01:45
    issues of anti-capitalism as well as
  • 00:01:47
    neocolonial projects that are festering
  • 00:01:50
    and are the very undoing of our
  • 00:01:53
    communities that are averaging not only
  • 00:01:55
    Kenya Africa South America but the globe
  • 00:01:58
    we look forward to this afternoon's
  • 00:02:01
    engagement with our comrades
  • 00:02:03
    congressi is record the native the
  • 00:02:05
    mathare social justice center and a
  • 00:02:07
    member of the social justice the working
  • 00:02:09
    group Syrian Committee in Nairobi Kenya
  • 00:02:12
    he is involved in Regional and social
  • 00:02:15
    movements and politics he research and
  • 00:02:18
    writes about violence criminalization of
  • 00:02:20
    the poor social justice and social
  • 00:02:22
    struggles amongst other areas these
  • 00:02:25
    articles and video interviews are
  • 00:02:27
    published by Rob and Africa is a country
  • 00:02:30
    as well as virtual books and others
  • 00:02:33
    congrats 1-0 is a Grassroots activist
  • 00:02:36
    who has co-founded the material social
  • 00:02:38
    justice center and the matigari youth
  • 00:02:41
    book club she is a ba student at the
  • 00:02:44
    University of Nairobi and a co-host of
  • 00:02:47
    three liberating Mayans artwork on
  • 00:02:49
    YouTube and soon
  • 00:02:53
    is a political activist and a human
  • 00:02:55
    rights and social justice lawyer and the
  • 00:02:58
    coordinator of the legal empowerment
  • 00:02:59
    network of the mathare social justice
  • 00:03:02
    center and member of the organic
  • 00:03:04
    intellectuals network of India comrade
  • 00:03:07
    menu is a feminist and a political
  • 00:03:09
    activist from the mukuru community
  • 00:03:11
    Justice Center and the team leader of
  • 00:03:14
    the social justice centers traveling
  • 00:03:16
    theater she Champions using Arc to
  • 00:03:19
    expose the contradictions of capitalism
  • 00:03:21
    and consequently patriarch and of course
  • 00:03:24
    myself Mahmoud Patel who is the
  • 00:03:27
    chairperson of the Kurdish human rights
  • 00:03:29
    Action Group in South Africa a legal
  • 00:03:31
    scholar and a long time active versus as
  • 00:03:34
    well as a former whom controversies were
  • 00:03:36
    operator in South Africa of course the
  • 00:03:39
    program was foregrounded by a document
  • 00:03:42
    that was shared by our comrades from
  • 00:03:45
    peace in Kurdistan that was pended and
  • 00:03:48
    put together by our friend and comrade
  • 00:03:50
    Dr Jeffrey Miley that long 18-page
  • 00:03:54
    document was together with meetings and
  • 00:03:57
    the fruition of which was the crisp
  • 00:04:00
    analysis and folki for what we are this
  • 00:04:03
    afternoon of course the proposal for the
  • 00:04:05
    symposium was foregrounded by the
  • 00:04:08
    challenges that are emerging on the
  • 00:04:10
    ground in rajaba and Northeastern Syria
  • 00:04:13
    as a practice and a model of the
  • 00:04:15
    thinking and thoughts and ideas of the
  • 00:04:17
    great revolutionary Abdullah of course
  • 00:04:20
    his Works present by things one two and
  • 00:04:21
    three are well known amongst us and the
  • 00:04:24
    broader communities in South Africa
  • 00:04:26
    Africa and the globe at large of course
  • 00:04:29
    the struggles in Kenya have been
  • 00:04:30
    inspired by his thoughts and ideas and
  • 00:04:33
    we understand from the background
  • 00:04:34
    document that it is not an easy task to
  • 00:04:38
    understand how those links may be fought
  • 00:04:40
    as far as going forward
  • 00:04:41
    of course they are challenges but more
  • 00:04:44
    importantly the resilience the
  • 00:04:45
    commitment and the successes of the
  • 00:04:48
    Grassroots movements in Kenya as well as
  • 00:04:50
    throughout the continent are a testament
  • 00:04:53
    that the inspiration derived from
  • 00:04:55
    Abdullah and his thinking is a key
  • 00:04:58
    driver for that of course comrade
  • 00:05:00
    Jeffrey Miley quoted extensively on the
  • 00:05:02
    struggles of others in from South
  • 00:05:04
    America as well as those from the black
  • 00:05:06
    Consciousness movement whether it is
  • 00:05:08
    Cedric Robinson as well as Frederick
  • 00:05:10
    Douglass and others to foreground the
  • 00:05:12
    theoretical understandings on how we can
  • 00:05:15
    grasp with these challenges that we Face
  • 00:05:17
    going forward you've heard me with the
  • 00:05:20
    introductory and opening remarks and the
  • 00:05:22
    brief bios of all our important caders
  • 00:05:25
    that are here with us today and everyone
  • 00:05:27
    else here who is here part of the tent
  • 00:05:29
    that are here with us as well including
  • 00:05:32
    the introduction given to us our comrade
  • 00:05:34
    Shira durani I will friend
  • 00:05:38
    I don't want to take more time but I
  • 00:05:40
    want to give the floor now to overcome
  • 00:05:42
    raids who are here with us I know we
  • 00:05:45
    were formed by comrade
  • 00:05:48
    got checked that he doesn't have a
  • 00:05:49
    presentation uh two or three days ago
  • 00:05:52
    but I know the other comrades would also
  • 00:05:55
    want to present so as his custom reader
  • 00:05:58
    flow is yours comrade for your remarks
  • 00:06:01
    and opening statements as well before we
  • 00:06:03
    can move on with the comrades who have
  • 00:06:05
    their presentation with them and would
  • 00:06:07
    like to share that as and when they
  • 00:06:10
    continue and of course we'll be wary of
  • 00:06:12
    time to ensure everybody gets a fair
  • 00:06:14
    opportunity and then we can engage in
  • 00:06:18
    discussion questions as well as
  • 00:06:20
    engagement on the way forward not only
  • 00:06:22
    with your presentations but as comrade
  • 00:06:24
    Jeff has pointed out as a group that can
  • 00:06:27
    go forward taking the challenges on
  • 00:06:29
    ahead thank you comrades comrade the
  • 00:06:33
    floor is yours as they would say please
  • 00:06:34
    proceed
  • 00:06:37
    hey thank you very much Muhammad but
  • 00:06:39
    that's still very powerful and
  • 00:06:41
    passionate introduction very inspiring
  • 00:06:43
    and um I really appreciate for this
  • 00:06:46
    opportunity and especially coming from
  • 00:06:48
    Kenya and uh with my colleagues I also
  • 00:06:51
    thank you very much the team that has
  • 00:06:53
    convinced the Symposium and web now also
  • 00:06:56
    to help us to amplify our struggle here
  • 00:06:59
    in Kenya the work that we have done
  • 00:07:00
    before and with also Community Jeff and
  • 00:07:03
    link up with them with the Kurdish
  • 00:07:05
    movement in various places whether in a
  • 00:07:09
    in Europe and and
  • 00:07:12
    political activity social visiting us
  • 00:07:15
    here in Aerobic as like Margaret has
  • 00:07:17
    said my name is
  • 00:07:20
    social justice center and also a part of
  • 00:07:23
    the Grassroots Liberation movement which
  • 00:07:26
    is a space and political space that we
  • 00:07:29
    are forging together with the Kurdish
  • 00:07:31
    political activist uh when our history
  • 00:07:35
    is connected and we share this a
  • 00:07:38
    struggle of self-determination
  • 00:07:41
    and as you know in 1999
  • 00:07:46
    could not be in Nairobi and that's sure
  • 00:07:49
    how uh our struggle is a connection with
  • 00:07:52
    the Kurdish people with the struggle of
  • 00:07:55
    self-determination and this is the
  • 00:07:57
    history that has unified us uh we have
  • 00:08:00
    done before different campaign like
  • 00:08:02
    campaign for future
  • 00:08:04
    visitors in aerobic and from Germany and
  • 00:08:08
    we started that campaign in
  • 00:08:10
    2017 and then after that we got linked
  • 00:08:15
    up with the comrade Jeff who has done a
  • 00:08:17
    book for uh
  • 00:08:19
    freedom on mine and we needed some
  • 00:08:22
    number of seminars here in Nairobi uh
  • 00:08:25
    for self-determination uh feminist
  • 00:08:28
    ecology and uh Democratic Confederacy
  • 00:08:32
    which is part of uh uh philosophy and an
  • 00:08:37
    idea that Jeff has has been asking that
  • 00:08:42
    if this is the idea that you can area
  • 00:08:43
    has written in his paper this is the
  • 00:08:46
    idea that you can think as an African
  • 00:08:47
    and in a question of Pan-Africa that we
  • 00:08:50
    can try to connect and see whether we
  • 00:08:52
    can use this area as a part of
  • 00:08:56
    reorganizing a popular power from Below
  • 00:09:00
    and the the important thing is to say
  • 00:09:03
    that Kenya Kenya has a powerful history
  • 00:09:05
    and I'm not the right person to share
  • 00:09:07
    this history well because the company
  • 00:09:08
    Shiraz is dran is here and he has done a
  • 00:09:11
    lot of work around maumau the history of
  • 00:09:14
    resistors in Kenya another betrayal and
  • 00:09:16
    what has happened with the progressive
  • 00:09:18
    forces since
  • 00:09:20
    1963 but he just give a preview of where
  • 00:09:24
    we are coming from we are building from
  • 00:09:26
    the foundation of this struggle that was
  • 00:09:29
    engaged By Conrad Shiraz Rani and many
  • 00:09:32
    of the universities uh lecture our
  • 00:09:34
    students starting with the December 12th
  • 00:09:37
    movement which was a Marxist learnings
  • 00:09:40
    and that was formed in a university then
  • 00:09:42
    from there we had a moi and Moi was the
  • 00:09:46
    second president of Republic of Kenya at
  • 00:09:48
    dictatorship and previously we had
  • 00:09:51
    Kenyatta dictatorship and this is the
  • 00:09:53
    condition that backed up a revolutionary
  • 00:09:56
    movement from the University and a
  • 00:09:58
    working class sites so as as a social
  • 00:10:01
    justice Movement we were building from
  • 00:10:02
    this history a history of resistance a
  • 00:10:05
    history of self-determination even if it
  • 00:10:08
    is a our Liberation struggle Kenya land
  • 00:10:10
    and children Army and that's that's the
  • 00:10:13
    roots of the social justice movement
  • 00:10:14
    which has organized within informal
  • 00:10:17
    settlement and uh we have a number of
  • 00:10:19
    social justice centers that are shaping
  • 00:10:22
    up this struggle we also have organic
  • 00:10:25
    intellectual networks that is trying to
  • 00:10:26
    to to think through this social justice
  • 00:10:29
    movement
  • 00:10:30
    is also linked up to the the struggler
  • 00:10:33
    out there of the
  • 00:10:37
    movement that I've made minded before
  • 00:10:39
    and have continued to write and
  • 00:10:42
    articulate the struggles of all people
  • 00:10:44
    here in Kenya so the organic
  • 00:10:46
    intellectual is is he continued to
  • 00:10:49
    borrow and I read from the literature
  • 00:10:51
    that has been developed by intellectuals
  • 00:10:54
    like professori teach us to run it and
  • 00:10:57
    also recently we did a small article uh
  • 00:11:00
    book on um on um
  • 00:11:03
    discourse that is written by Professor
  • 00:11:06
    Aisha shivji
  • 00:11:07
    it's a broad struggle that you're
  • 00:11:09
    engaging and
  • 00:11:11
    this is is what
  • 00:11:14
    um is what this platform is what has
  • 00:11:17
    connected us with the Kurdish Democratic
  • 00:11:20
    movement and uh uh with that
  • 00:11:23
    introduction I think I can offer uh give
  • 00:11:27
    my colleagues also to make their
  • 00:11:30
    um introduction remarks
  • 00:11:35
    thank you so much
  • 00:11:36
    for your introductory remarks and your
  • 00:11:39
    crisp Salient issues that you have
  • 00:11:42
    brought to us of course our comrades in
  • 00:11:46
    any order can go ahead to do their
  • 00:11:49
    opening remarks congrat Mino I think I
  • 00:11:53
    see you there you are free to go if you
  • 00:11:55
    are available
  • 00:11:56
    to go on and thereafter I've accommodate
  • 00:12:02
    comrades in sequence may continue with
  • 00:12:05
    its comrade waringa or comrade wanjira
  • 00:12:09
    please go ahead comrade
  • 00:12:16
    our greetings complete
  • 00:12:18
    on my comment me know and
  • 00:12:20
    then we after
  • 00:12:23
    uh again my name is
  • 00:12:26
    I am a member of my body social justice
  • 00:12:30
    center where I coordinate the regular
  • 00:12:32
    income and networkers there my company
  • 00:12:33
    said earlier and also um in the
  • 00:12:37
    classification movement I fell in the
  • 00:12:39
    position of a treasure so um I'm so
  • 00:12:42
    grateful again for being involved in
  • 00:12:44
    this Symposium and of course very much
  • 00:12:46
    so because
  • 00:12:47
    we must lead with the spirit of
  • 00:12:49
    internationalism to realize that the
  • 00:12:51
    struggles of all over the world at the
  • 00:12:53
    struggle or are also our similar
  • 00:12:55
    struggles because we aren't writing one
  • 00:12:58
    um you know global system which we must
  • 00:13:00
    fight very hard to overthrow and um of
  • 00:13:04
    course then my comment Jeff has done a
  • 00:13:05
    very good paper for now his experience
  • 00:13:08
    when he was here in Kenya and of course
  • 00:13:10
    what he borrowed from um you know the
  • 00:13:12
    struggle of um what he describes as uh
  • 00:13:14
    what um the rest of the earth as far as
  • 00:13:17
    best described them because um society
  • 00:13:21
    and we of course choose to use the word
  • 00:13:22
    to impenise because our society has been
  • 00:13:24
    deliberately illuminized and you don't
  • 00:13:26
    call them by you know Loop and societies
  • 00:13:27
    because they're lumped by Societies in
  • 00:13:30
    or even transfer only his analysis he
  • 00:13:32
    said that he's among those threat of the
  • 00:13:34
    Earth where you know whether the
  • 00:13:36
    Liberation movements can best be
  • 00:13:38
    grounded because those young people have
  • 00:13:40
    very important tasks because you know
  • 00:13:42
    young people in the informal settlement
  • 00:13:44
    have a very important tax to decide on
  • 00:13:46
    which side of History they shall fall
  • 00:13:48
    because if they become um you know if
  • 00:13:50
    they become intrigued you know
  • 00:13:52
    withdrawal interests they fall in the
  • 00:13:54
    same line of you know they get to be
  • 00:13:55
    used by the political class to write
  • 00:13:57
    their own particular interests but at
  • 00:13:59
    the same time they can take up the
  • 00:14:01
    chance and then no fight in The
  • 00:14:02
    Liberation struggles because they have
  • 00:14:04
    nothing to lose they have been denied
  • 00:14:07
    with every social being that they can
  • 00:14:09
    have and of course the only chance they
  • 00:14:11
    have is to fight for their own
  • 00:14:12
    inspiration and to fight for their own
  • 00:14:14
    life and of course at the same time
  • 00:14:15
    fight for their own dignity so um yes um
  • 00:14:19
    has given a very rich history which is a
  • 00:14:23
    one one history that we are very proud
  • 00:14:25
    of because it shows a history of
  • 00:14:27
    resistance of all our people make sure
  • 00:14:29
    the history of resistance among the
  • 00:14:30
    Kenyan normal the Kenyan people because
  • 00:14:32
    Kenyan people have continually fought
  • 00:14:34
    against any form of operation of one by
  • 00:14:37
    one because even
  • 00:14:38
    um you know I ignore the person that
  • 00:14:40
    said this but hey you know I think you
  • 00:14:42
    know we're all fighting every day to you
  • 00:14:46
    know to defeat human restrictions you
  • 00:14:47
    know to defeat human restriction relying
  • 00:14:49
    as foods to defeat human restriction
  • 00:14:51
    denying US housing to defeat human
  • 00:14:52
    restrictions you know denying as every
  • 00:14:55
    social dignity that we can have and of
  • 00:14:57
    course the fight for the the fight
  • 00:14:59
    against the liberalism continues in our
  • 00:15:01
    everyday strong goals because
  • 00:15:02
    [Music]
  • 00:15:03
    um
  • 00:15:08
    [Music]
  • 00:15:11
    you know he's showing that even the
  • 00:15:13
    African people are particularly fighting
  • 00:15:16
    against you know intellectually
  • 00:15:17
    intellectual dependency along with
  • 00:15:19
    quality because it will be intellectual
  • 00:15:21
    dependency of the West and now African
  • 00:15:23
    people are coming out and saying that we
  • 00:15:25
    have we have our own history and we have
  • 00:15:27
    our own social struggle and you know our
  • 00:15:29
    struggles are struggles that we can live
  • 00:15:31
    to fight and I know it is a fight that
  • 00:15:33
    even if you know the analysis that you
  • 00:15:36
    welcome my community has given if you're
  • 00:15:38
    part of a bad analysis it's that you
  • 00:15:41
    know resistance troubles and never easy
  • 00:15:42
    you know it's not our work in the park
  • 00:15:44
    it's something that we must sacrifice
  • 00:15:46
    and it has to be determined organizing
  • 00:15:48
    of people so that we can win these
  • 00:15:50
    struggles and of course I think it is
  • 00:15:52
    what comes with Jeff refers to you know
  • 00:15:54
    as revolution in Consciousness which is
  • 00:15:56
    what is going on in our different social
  • 00:15:57
    justice centers because within those
  • 00:15:59
    centers we have we have deliberate
  • 00:16:02
    political education cells Within but
  • 00:16:04
    different pillars that we have because
  • 00:16:06
    for example
  • 00:16:07
    um I couldn't get the legal empowerment
  • 00:16:09
    Network which uses low as a tool to
  • 00:16:13
    mobilize issues to mobilize around you
  • 00:16:15
    know the issues that are raised within
  • 00:16:16
    the Constitution because
  • 00:16:18
    um I think my comrade has introduced a
  • 00:16:21
    very good history of the history of
  • 00:16:23
    fighting for which with what even my
  • 00:16:25
    competition of course I was I was
  • 00:16:27
    involved which is the struggle against
  • 00:16:30
    um you know and first neopolonialism by
  • 00:16:33
    um by by President Moy where he tries to
  • 00:16:36
    cut it into them of course one of the
  • 00:16:38
    ways that we can try to conceal Freedom
  • 00:16:40
    which is to try to tell the freedom of
  • 00:16:42
    multiparty democracy and in the process
  • 00:16:44
    you know a resistance sprouted because
  • 00:16:46
    you know generally what she was creating
  • 00:16:49
    his you know molecules of some sort of
  • 00:16:51
    homological system but at least some
  • 00:16:53
    sort of authoritarian system but he
  • 00:16:55
    cannot be he cannot be challenged in
  • 00:16:57
    terms of authority but people you know
  • 00:16:59
    essentially have come up and challenged
  • 00:17:02
    that they came up with a very
  • 00:17:03
    Progressive Constitution
  • 00:17:06
    but in the same Constitution it is very
  • 00:17:09
    difficult to to implement or to
  • 00:17:12
    actualize what is the you know the
  • 00:17:13
    permissions of the Constitution because
  • 00:17:15
    of your liberal politics you know
  • 00:17:17
    liberalism you know dictates that and
  • 00:17:19
    people cannot have food because you know
  • 00:17:22
    privatization dictates that food is also
  • 00:17:24
    a quality a privatization detects that
  • 00:17:26
    housing is a commodity it takes that the
  • 00:17:29
    basic means that human needs to have
  • 00:17:30
    Dignity of the modified and therefore
  • 00:17:33
    the poorest of the people and even the
  • 00:17:35
    working class of our people cannot
  • 00:17:36
    afford basic dignity and of course
  • 00:17:39
    and become very difficult to be able to
  • 00:17:42
    implement the Constitution but what we
  • 00:17:43
    have is a cycle for struggle you know we
  • 00:17:46
    could easily organize the people of
  • 00:17:47
    Mubarak you know to to you know to find
  • 00:17:50
    their self-determination in the sense
  • 00:17:51
    that they have to if they have to then
  • 00:17:53
    quality organize and fight for learn you
  • 00:17:55
    know the math addressed the last
  • 00:17:56
    question you know right now we're doing
  • 00:17:58
    a full campaign of ecological Justice
  • 00:18:00
    because now people must come up with
  • 00:18:02
    deliberately organize around issues of
  • 00:18:04
    ecological injustices because you know
  • 00:18:06
    the the you know the quest of people who
  • 00:18:09
    are most um you know they're the ones
  • 00:18:11
    who are most I don't know how to import
  • 00:18:12
    it but um the words are escaping me but
  • 00:18:14
    it's because they're the ones that at
  • 00:18:16
    least you know they're at least they're
  • 00:18:18
    the ones that at least
  • 00:18:20
    [Music]
  • 00:18:21
    um
  • 00:18:22
    in the Imaging our environment but
  • 00:18:25
    they're the ones that suffer the brand
  • 00:18:26
    of you know a damaged ecological system
  • 00:18:29
    you know but um you know the dirtiest
  • 00:18:31
    among the Dutch history was in the
  • 00:18:33
    Wilder we've been within them at the you
  • 00:18:35
    know the masses of another people you
  • 00:18:37
    know and
  • 00:18:38
    creating distances creating a very
  • 00:18:41
    undignified ways of Behaving no I think
  • 00:18:44
    my company Jeff has detailed that in the
  • 00:18:45
    doctor in in that short paper that he
  • 00:18:47
    bought and of course those kind of
  • 00:18:49
    conditions are what we deliberately
  • 00:18:50
    organize around because people must
  • 00:18:52
    fight and deliberately fight for clean
  • 00:18:54
    and safe water for drinking
  • 00:18:56
    ask themselves the question why they are
  • 00:18:59
    living in congested Charities or there
  • 00:19:01
    are people who are political ruling and
  • 00:19:03
    needs were able to harm us very big you
  • 00:19:06
    know very big pieces of Love within our
  • 00:19:08
    country when we leave other people
  • 00:19:10
    congested in very small um in very small
  • 00:19:12
    environments and of course
  • 00:19:24
    against because this statue of Justice
  • 00:19:26
    Center has granted um in all almost all
  • 00:19:30
    informal settlements of liability
  • 00:19:31
    addressing different questions you know
  • 00:19:34
    um in some areas they are addressing
  • 00:19:36
    issues of extrajudicial appearance which
  • 00:19:37
    at this point
  • 00:19:39
    um I think we need to create a whole
  • 00:19:41
    different analysis of hunting
  • 00:19:42
    extrajudicial killings as crimes against
  • 00:19:44
    humanity because we have followed um you
  • 00:19:47
    know have fun with many different
  • 00:19:48
    analysis that have been given in
  • 00:19:50
    different parts of the world where um
  • 00:19:53
    where the students of course we can see
  • 00:19:54
    that deliberate healings of the poor
  • 00:19:56
    people it's like a cleansing of four
  • 00:19:57
    people by the state which you must
  • 00:19:59
    continually fight you know in black um
  • 00:20:01
    you know in America they are fighting
  • 00:20:04
    you know against uh racism of the black
  • 00:20:06
    of the black children is continually
  • 00:20:07
    being killed by police and on this other
  • 00:20:10
    Friday when the black people are still
  • 00:20:11
    killing that you know the black police
  • 00:20:12
    were instruments of the state
  • 00:20:13
    continually killed our poor people in
  • 00:20:16
    the name of funding crime instead of
  • 00:20:18
    handling uh you know instead of us
  • 00:20:20
    deliberately organizing for for a
  • 00:20:23
    different Society one that actually
  • 00:20:24
    addresses questions of the quantity one
  • 00:20:27
    that actually addresses exclusive and
  • 00:20:29
    actually we were going to love their own
  • 00:20:31
    neighbors and I mean it's it's a
  • 00:20:33
    continuous struggle that we must
  • 00:20:34
    continually um and deliberately organize
  • 00:20:36
    so that people can understand what
  • 00:20:38
    self-determination means of course even
  • 00:20:40
    within the different movements and the
  • 00:20:41
    different shapes of structures speaking
  • 00:20:44
    about for example the organic
  • 00:20:45
    intellectuals which is the lead by it
  • 00:20:47
    that it has to be through political
  • 00:20:48
    education at the masses of what people
  • 00:20:50
    are going to be liberated you know it
  • 00:20:52
    has to be continuous and it has to be
  • 00:20:54
    directly entrenched with the people that
  • 00:20:57
    is why even our centers are within
  • 00:20:59
    the different informal settlements but
  • 00:21:01
    of course I am you know it is it is it
  • 00:21:05
    is even more motivating that there are
  • 00:21:07
    more conscious people in the world that
  • 00:21:09
    are continually also fighting the same
  • 00:21:10
    struggles and of course having a
  • 00:21:12
    platform like this one that we can open
  • 00:21:13
    the debate you know and discuss and
  • 00:21:15
    exchange ideas of how we're going to
  • 00:21:17
    move forward regarding our Liberation
  • 00:21:19
    struggles it gives us more motivation
  • 00:21:21
    and environment revolutionary seal to
  • 00:21:23
    keep going so I think I will make us
  • 00:21:25
    talk about that corporate and uh
  • 00:21:29
    to keep going
  • 00:21:35
    thank you so much comrade waringa uh
  • 00:21:38
    comrade
  • 00:21:41
    I think it's comrade waringa who will go
  • 00:21:43
    on now
  • 00:21:44
    uh because complete varinga sorry has
  • 00:21:47
    presented and our comrade now that will
  • 00:21:50
    come on uh comrade you gave us a very uh
  • 00:21:53
    deep analysis of the extrajudicial
  • 00:21:56
    killings as well as the framework of
  • 00:21:59
    which the communities operate in Nairobi
  • 00:22:02
    as well as greater Kenya but also the
  • 00:22:05
    links to the international struggles
  • 00:22:06
    that you have foregrounded with the
  • 00:22:09
    paper that have accommodate Jeffrey in
  • 00:22:12
    his uh very uh intellectually astute
  • 00:22:15
    document through linkages as well
  • 00:22:18
    there's an important point that we must
  • 00:22:21
    consider going forward as well and I'm
  • 00:22:24
    sure we'll discuss it much more and that
  • 00:22:26
    is how do we connect our struggles in an
  • 00:22:29
    international way that makes sense to
  • 00:22:31
    all of us and to go together as a
  • 00:22:34
    collective thank you comrade the flow is
  • 00:22:35
    yours you may go on
  • 00:22:43
    yourself
  • 00:22:59
    I coordinate the social justice centers
  • 00:23:01
    traveling together and a member of the
  • 00:23:03
    organic intellectuals Network and the
  • 00:23:06
    Grassroots Liberation movement so um at
  • 00:23:09
    the social justice centers traveling
  • 00:23:10
    theater we have I realized theater as a
  • 00:23:12
    very powerful tool to advocate for uh
  • 00:23:15
    social change and yeah it has been used
  • 00:23:17
    here in Kenya particularly in our
  • 00:23:20
    struggles it has been used in the fast
  • 00:23:22
    Liberation struggle that was uh the
  • 00:23:24
    community theater Group which was using
  • 00:23:26
    uh open air spaces to advocate for uh
  • 00:23:30
    University and uh we have also seen it
  • 00:23:32
    in the second Liberation the five C's
  • 00:23:34
    I'm sure uh Shiraz might know about that
  • 00:23:37
    when they were fighting for their
  • 00:23:39
    constitution uh that data was used under
  • 00:23:42
    it's a you know it was used to mobilize
  • 00:23:44
    people and to for people to be able to
  • 00:23:46
    fight for themselves for their you know
  • 00:23:48
    uh to understand the benefits of the new
  • 00:23:50
    constitution so uh that in this bad
  • 00:23:53
    Liberation we are also using adult the
  • 00:23:55
    social justice center traveling data to
  • 00:23:57
    advocate for um different uh so uh
  • 00:24:00
    social injustices issues that we are
  • 00:24:02
    facing in different uh informal
  • 00:24:04
    settlements so uh we have members from
  • 00:24:06
    our different social justice centers as
  • 00:24:08
    you all know the social justice certain
  • 00:24:10
    environment our members are all uh human
  • 00:24:12
    rights uh activists who understand uh
  • 00:24:15
    well the context of Human Rights and the
  • 00:24:17
    Revolution and how capitalism has been
  • 00:24:19
    functioning so the theater has been used
  • 00:24:21
    to go to streets we mostly do street
  • 00:24:23
    performances which are invisible uh
  • 00:24:26
    mostly are invisible theater we are
  • 00:24:28
    members of the community and do not
  • 00:24:30
    really know that you are asking that
  • 00:24:32
    they release a bit when we uh what you
  • 00:24:35
    are doing and then uh we are able to to
  • 00:24:38
    to make our audience also act as in our
  • 00:24:41
    place so that they are able to come up
  • 00:24:42
    with their their own Solutions so that
  • 00:24:45
    we love the ones who are imposing the
  • 00:24:46
    solutions to the communities which are
  • 00:24:48
    I've been seen are working very
  • 00:24:50
    powerfully we also have to not just
  • 00:24:52
    theater but also do murals when I just
  • 00:24:55
    was here last time we did uh he did uh
  • 00:24:57
    different murals on um when our Ultraman
  • 00:25:01
    in as an ash of our solidarity with our
  • 00:25:03
    college
  • 00:25:05
    and this has been um you know a person
  • 00:25:08
    to to amplify our struggles especially
  • 00:25:11
    uh when it comes to as our own
  • 00:25:13
    understand our extra judicial clinics
  • 00:25:16
    are you know uh unemployment drugs we
  • 00:25:20
    mostly use uh you know seed performances
  • 00:25:22
    to show the effects of these uh things
  • 00:25:24
    and as as Michael Abraham was saying we
  • 00:25:27
    have a very powerful Constitution that
  • 00:25:30
    you have gives us a lot of Rights we
  • 00:25:32
    have the right to house in the rights to
  • 00:25:34
    employment the right to health care
  • 00:25:36
    which will be lost up but then again uh
  • 00:25:38
    it is impossible to implement uh to
  • 00:25:41
    implement a constitution and then again
  • 00:25:43
    our promotes our privatization the
  • 00:25:45
    developments are privatization of basic
  • 00:25:47
    community use so it is better it is up
  • 00:25:51
    to us to questions on that even the
  • 00:25:54
    Masters do not understand and do you
  • 00:25:56
    know the masses are in now in the
  • 00:25:58
    situation where they cannot do uh web
  • 00:26:01
    analysis this means uh it will be hard
  • 00:26:03
    for them to struggle for
  • 00:26:04
    self-determination because we have seen
  • 00:26:06
    things like uh drugs being used against
  • 00:26:08
    the the youth and if you look at the
  • 00:26:11
    struggle of drugs you will see that uh
  • 00:26:12
    it has been a protracted to stand but
  • 00:26:14
    you'll see uh for example uh when Jeff
  • 00:26:17
    was here uh there was a mass eviction
  • 00:26:19
    that happened
  • 00:26:23
    there are 70 000 families what does that
  • 00:26:27
    mean when we there are 70 000 families
  • 00:26:29
    and uh you know there's a crisis of
  • 00:26:32
    Housing and you know Constitution
  • 00:26:33
    there's rights housing so that means
  • 00:26:36
    that it is not working because again
  • 00:26:37
    there is a privatization so we go to
  • 00:26:39
    these communities and are conscious them
  • 00:26:41
    about these things because when we look
  • 00:26:43
    at our evictions it goes back to housing
  • 00:26:45
    when it goes back to housing increase
  • 00:26:47
    our third business
  • 00:27:04
    it will be hard for you to you know to
  • 00:27:10
    maybe drinking or smoking some things
  • 00:27:12
    and all that and when you go to drugs it
  • 00:27:15
    is very easy for you to call to uh
  • 00:27:17
    police brutality because uh uh when
  • 00:27:19
    there is no very much and we need to buy
  • 00:27:21
    these drugs it means you go to cry you
  • 00:27:23
    fall to cry but then again you look at
  • 00:27:25
    where this crisis starts it started from
  • 00:27:27
    where you did these addictions a lot of
  • 00:27:29
    kids were never able to go back to
  • 00:27:31
    school now they are falling into drugs
  • 00:27:33
    now they observing it to climb and then
  • 00:27:34
    not having starts traveling with
  • 00:27:36
    judicial killings will not understand if
  • 00:27:39
    you do not show them where is there
  • 00:27:41
    where uh historic and this problem comes
  • 00:27:43
    from so uh yes that is what we do at the
  • 00:27:46
    shopping theater
  • 00:27:49
    thank you
  • 00:27:54
    thank you so much comrade menu indeed
  • 00:27:57
    you have championed towards the
  • 00:27:58
    contradictions of capitalism and the
  • 00:28:00
    challenges you have today in the locals
  • 00:28:03
    that you have given us the examples from
  • 00:28:05
    of course you foregrounded theater as a
  • 00:28:08
    resistance and of course the development
  • 00:28:10
    of theater in Africa especially in
  • 00:28:13
    countries in the North and the South
  • 00:28:14
    here in South Africa
  • 00:28:17
    and the South African resistance theater
  • 00:28:20
    uh breast citizen revolutionaries comes
  • 00:28:23
    to mind as well and those who are
  • 00:28:25
    characterized by high levels of activity
  • 00:28:26
    which you yourself have been doing
  • 00:28:28
    together with the joint uh contribution
  • 00:28:32
    by our comrade Jeffrey and the different
  • 00:28:35
    aspects of the Kurdish struggle
  • 00:28:37
    intertwined into your localized
  • 00:28:39
    struggles as well and for that I must
  • 00:28:43
    thank you
  • 00:28:44
    for your presentation as well and your
  • 00:28:47
    very uh astute insight into the
  • 00:28:51
    challenges you have on the ground thank
  • 00:28:53
    you for that uh it is one of our other
  • 00:28:56
    comrades who indicated they will not be
  • 00:28:59
    having a formal presentation is he still
  • 00:29:02
    is the comrade with us uh ComEd
  • 00:29:06
    that should have been here as well if
  • 00:29:08
    the comrade easier and the comrade would
  • 00:29:10
    like to share with us anything please
  • 00:29:12
    feel free uh comrade one zero
  • 00:29:16
    uh
  • 00:29:23
    hello uh
  • 00:29:26
    and ask for apologies to where he was
  • 00:29:30
    saying he was not able to to to
  • 00:29:34
    but she was supposed to share the same
  • 00:29:36
    question of um
  • 00:29:38
    how the social justice movement has
  • 00:29:41
    emerged now the role of the women and a
  • 00:29:43
    feminist network that are shaping up the
  • 00:29:45
    struggle within the social justice
  • 00:29:47
    centers uh and also she's been a key and
  • 00:29:50
    a Founder co-founder of Madara social
  • 00:29:52
    justice center and also she has
  • 00:29:54
    participated in articulating the
  • 00:29:56
    question of the police brutality a
  • 00:30:00
    criminalization of the poor and she's
  • 00:30:02
    also done some of the documentary in in
  • 00:30:05
    Al Jazeera so some of those documentary
  • 00:30:09
    will share and she's also committed a
  • 00:30:12
    kind of for the campaign for free
  • 00:30:14
    Ultraman and also
  • 00:30:16
    ecological Justice movement yes that
  • 00:30:19
    that's the reason why Community
  • 00:30:21
    appeared on a behalf yeah but so um what
  • 00:30:26
    else I just want to add is a team
  • 00:30:29
    and our struggles for building up a
  • 00:30:32
    Grassroots movement it is also because
  • 00:30:35
    of the nature of the the Civil Society
  • 00:30:38
    in Kenya uh and we have done a book
  • 00:30:41
    called them in silence Indian Judas
  • 00:30:44
    because reading the book official shivji
  • 00:30:46
    about the NGO risk
  • 00:30:49
    this topic is there in a Jeff paper
  • 00:30:51
    about the crisis of neoliberal in in
  • 00:30:54
    Africa and this book speak about in the
  • 00:30:57
    last 30 years the challenges we are
  • 00:30:59
    facing with the organizing in our
  • 00:31:01
    informal settlement because of
  • 00:31:03
    engineerization of social movement and
  • 00:31:05
    I'm sure even in South Africa we have
  • 00:31:07
    this crisis in the last three decades it
  • 00:31:10
    has been very difficult because ngos are
  • 00:31:13
    have come to the politicize the
  • 00:31:15
    political the Grassroots movement and
  • 00:31:18
    that's why the Grassroots Liberation
  • 00:31:19
    movement is very critical on how to
  • 00:31:21
    organize from below and following the
  • 00:31:24
    Kardashian
  • 00:31:25
    ideas and tactics on building a people's
  • 00:31:28
    power from below so they think that's
  • 00:31:31
    part of the thing that you would want to
  • 00:31:33
    share the the book that you have done
  • 00:31:34
    with the organic intellectual networks
  • 00:31:37
    and uh wrote the experiential knowledge
  • 00:31:41
    on the challenges and the limitations
  • 00:31:43
    organizing in a space that's more
  • 00:31:45
    dominated by NGO and um
  • 00:31:49
    and a professionalization of the
  • 00:31:51
    political activism
  • 00:31:53
    thank you yeah so Diego I was just going
  • 00:31:57
    to want to share a little bit about what
  • 00:31:58
    we have done together already and then
  • 00:32:01
    maybe open up to a question what do you
  • 00:32:03
    think for you guys to think about what
  • 00:32:05
    are the ways in which the peace and
  • 00:32:06
    Kurdistan Network can best help amplify
  • 00:32:09
    your voices so it historically uh uh I
  • 00:32:13
    met gacheke in 2018 when he was uh he
  • 00:32:16
    came to Cambridge and there he got to
  • 00:32:18
    witness a little bit there was a strike
  • 00:32:20
    going on at the time uh we met each we
  • 00:32:22
    made a demonstration in fact uh but uh
  • 00:32:26
    he invited me to come to uh he invited
  • 00:32:29
    me to come to mathura and I came to Thor
  • 00:32:31
    and I was blown away by the what I what
  • 00:32:33
    I saw uh and then uh I ended up writing
  • 00:32:37
    a piece called I jumped that was a
  • 00:32:38
    roster and I and I came back to Kenya
  • 00:32:41
    and when I was in Kenya we organized uh
  • 00:32:43
    a variety of themes around uh this this
  • 00:32:47
    thing that I'd written to engage with
  • 00:32:49
    people at the Grassroots and out of that
  • 00:32:51
    came a series of seminars that we were
  • 00:32:52
    doing and we did we did one on roster
  • 00:32:54
    resistance about rastafarianism and its
  • 00:32:56
    relationship resistance we did one on uh
  • 00:32:59
    women's Liberation the 21st century we
  • 00:33:01
    did one on uh social ecology it's a
  • 00:33:04
    revolutionary Paradigm and we did one on
  • 00:33:06
    the legacy of Walter Rodney with the
  • 00:33:07
    ground with the groundings with his
  • 00:33:09
    brothers in particular so we so we had a
  • 00:33:13
    series of events that were in different
  • 00:33:15
    places different informal settlements
  • 00:33:17
    and we used my presence there uh to sort
  • 00:33:20
    of organize uh and and and push to the
  • 00:33:23
    next level a lot of the work that
  • 00:33:25
    they've been doing putting together a
  • 00:33:26
    organic intellectuals Network putting
  • 00:33:28
    together the the organic uh movement
  • 00:33:31
    which is in tension with this NGO is a
  • 00:33:34
    but it also has uh opened up amazingly
  • 00:33:37
    in the last decade and a half I mean
  • 00:33:39
    it's really spread out it's growing
  • 00:33:41
    exponentially uh and so how we can how
  • 00:33:44
    we as the as the as the piecing
  • 00:33:46
    Kurdistan movement how we can help
  • 00:33:48
    amplify uh uh and coordinate the work uh
  • 00:33:52
    that that you guys are doing on the
  • 00:33:55
    grounds in the ghettos and be thinking
  • 00:33:57
    about the ways in which uh organizing
  • 00:33:59
    with you is not just an act of Charity
  • 00:34:01
    but we're really thinking about how we
  • 00:34:02
    can organize internationalism in the
  • 00:34:04
    21st century so that's the set of
  • 00:34:07
    questions that I uh related to you what
  • 00:34:08
    Inga I think you might have something to
  • 00:34:10
    say about them you know I think yeah
  • 00:34:11
    might not something to say about it and
  • 00:34:12
    I'm sure it got shaky as well and so I
  • 00:34:14
    think it would be good to listen to what
  • 00:34:16
    you guys think about what it is that you
  • 00:34:18
    guys find attractive about the PC
  • 00:34:20
    Kurdistan Network and what and what kind
  • 00:34:22
    of work do you think we can do uh
  • 00:34:24
    similarly to this sort of what we did
  • 00:34:26
    before with the set with the seminars uh
  • 00:34:28
    maybe uh move towards a Grassroots
  • 00:34:30
    Liberation album the concert and events
  • 00:34:33
    that we could be that maybe we could
  • 00:34:35
    help coordinate that anyhow that's just
  • 00:34:37
    uh
  • 00:34:39
    I want the floor to be open to you guys
  • 00:34:43
    maybe maybe I can grow faster
  • 00:34:46
    the thing is that um for many years the
  • 00:34:49
    Kurdish movement has not linked up with
  • 00:34:51
    the African struggle you know we have a
  • 00:34:53
    power Factory open Africa movements and
  • 00:34:56
    you know the the African Liberation the
  • 00:34:59
    struggle that's went through uh that's
  • 00:35:01
    South Africa began a very great struggle
  • 00:35:04
    the revelation of South Africa through
  • 00:35:06
    the support of the Cuban forces
  • 00:35:09
    great struggle that has gone to uh going
  • 00:35:12
    in in Africa and um and the thing that
  • 00:35:15
    we are discussing and with Jeff is that
  • 00:35:17
    the Kurdish movement as a an out of view
  • 00:35:22
    all the struggles in Africa uh I I see
  • 00:35:26
    that they have a history like the role
  • 00:35:28
    of France
  • 00:35:31
    and many many in many thinkings of that
  • 00:35:35
    has shaped African uh struggle since the
  • 00:35:39
    the time of the reparation of
  • 00:35:43
    Independence Movement but um this has
  • 00:35:46
    not been reflected in the country
  • 00:35:49
    literature on how the Africans travel of
  • 00:35:53
    self-determination and I think this is
  • 00:35:55
    what we uh we are grabbing how how do
  • 00:35:58
    the Carnation activists learn about our
  • 00:36:01
    struggles in Africa and this is their
  • 00:36:04
    own question on that um
  • 00:36:06
    maybe they they have not realized that
  • 00:36:09
    that Africa in an African youth can play
  • 00:36:13
    a major role in articulating the vision
  • 00:36:16
    of self-determination of the courage
  • 00:36:18
    people because of the history of the
  • 00:36:20
    colonization of Africa a division of our
  • 00:36:23
    nationalities every Colonial boundaries
  • 00:36:30
    their continued operation and
  • 00:36:32
    dictatorship or fascism of our political
  • 00:36:35
    leadership that that came after
  • 00:36:36
    Independence is the same shared story
  • 00:36:39
    about them the role the problems that
  • 00:36:42
    have victimization of the Kurdish
  • 00:36:44
    nationalities in Turkey by erogenism but
  • 00:36:48
    very literuses have have been done and
  • 00:36:51
    we are able to Jeff because it has
  • 00:36:53
    reaching about this and why the Kurdish
  • 00:36:55
    movement should focus more on linking up
  • 00:36:57
    with the emerging Youth and radical
  • 00:37:00
    social movement in Africa so I the thing
  • 00:37:03
    is we need to have more seminars and
  • 00:37:06
    that's the
  • 00:37:08
    that is going on in Sudan is very
  • 00:37:11
    critical but I don't think that our
  • 00:37:13
    Kurdish movement
  • 00:37:29
    in South Africa although there is a very
  • 00:37:32
    strong key Link in South Africa and
  • 00:37:35
    Mohammed I really appreciate but there's
  • 00:37:37
    somehow sometimes it is anchored on a
  • 00:37:39
    campaign of free Orchard but I don't
  • 00:37:42
    think whether they have very strong
  • 00:37:43
    political program of deepening political
  • 00:37:46
    mobilizations and linking up with the
  • 00:37:48
    Cabbage movement and also a it is the
  • 00:37:52
    literature and writing around these
  • 00:37:54
    issue that uh can help us Forge the
  • 00:37:58
    experience of our movement building in
  • 00:38:00
    Africa and the college I think this this
  • 00:38:03
    is this is the event from Robert and I
  • 00:38:05
    think the people of Jeff speaker how can
  • 00:38:07
    we convince this kind of um there's a
  • 00:38:10
    kind of a ideological seminars and a
  • 00:38:13
    campaign graffiti as
  • 00:38:19
    as a symbol of resistance I don't know
  • 00:38:23
    whether Curry's movement also and I see
  • 00:38:25
    some of them in Europe they know about
  • 00:38:27
    the role of the Kenyan land and children
  • 00:38:29
    army they don't have it how can we
  • 00:38:31
    compare didn't Kima how can we
  • 00:38:34
    contemporary articulate the question of
  • 00:38:38
    the dead and kimadi and Jeff has written
  • 00:38:41
    around that more that they unless the
  • 00:38:43
    Carnage people also try to learn from
  • 00:38:46
    their Matthias of our African Liberation
  • 00:38:49
    struggle and it should be very difficult
  • 00:38:51
    to connect with the African Youth and
  • 00:38:53
    right now we are having a major crisis
  • 00:38:55
    over IMF and world but pushing a lot of
  • 00:38:59
    policies of privatization and policies
  • 00:39:02
    of extreme taxation of the poor people
  • 00:39:05
    and also making making
  • 00:39:07
    a closing the Democratic space the same
  • 00:39:10
    thing that's happening in Turkey against
  • 00:39:12
    the Kurdish movement uh how how is our
  • 00:39:16
    struggles being connected and I think
  • 00:39:18
    that will be Estella here and she being
  • 00:39:21
    a a long time
  • 00:39:24
    Ally and comrade of the current movement
  • 00:39:27
    are having interacted with the very many
  • 00:39:29
    many college revolutionary attributes
  • 00:39:32
    how can we see this in reflectional
  • 00:39:35
    connection there is a documentary that
  • 00:39:37
    has been done by Kurdish TV that came
  • 00:39:40
    here in Nairobi it interviewed the
  • 00:39:42
    former Chief Justice who also issued a
  • 00:39:44
    suggest statement in solidarity within a
  • 00:39:47
    Carnage at net demand for freedom of
  • 00:39:49
    ultra and also it is spoke about the
  • 00:39:52
    international conspiracy against
  • 00:39:54
    and how imperialism uh concentrated here
  • 00:39:58
    in Nairobi has continued to under online
  • 00:40:00
    Democratic forces in the world I think
  • 00:40:03
    this has not been well articulated by
  • 00:40:05
    the Cabbage movement in different
  • 00:40:07
    platforms to show Kenya as a space with
  • 00:40:11
    a lot with a lot of resilience for
  • 00:40:13
    resistance and and it can spark a
  • 00:40:15
    powerful uh movement that that is that
  • 00:40:20
    that can amplify the struggle of Kurdish
  • 00:40:22
    people by showing how by exposing the
  • 00:40:25
    links of of imperialism in in in in here
  • 00:40:28
    in Nairobi by articulating the how
  • 00:40:31
    Orchard was kidding up and why and how
  • 00:40:34
    the malmals struggle and the struggle
  • 00:40:36
    Progressive forces Kenya have been
  • 00:40:38
    undermined by imperialism I think this
  • 00:40:41
    this we have not seen in the Carnage
  • 00:40:44
    platforms or in a carriage
  • 00:40:46
    encouragement
  • 00:40:48
    articulation and I think this will be
  • 00:40:51
    important for us to move forward we need
  • 00:40:54
    to see
  • 00:40:56
    the garnish movement also willing to
  • 00:40:58
    learn from our struggles and
  • 00:41:00
    appreciating that even as Africans we
  • 00:41:04
    have something to put in this in this
  • 00:41:06
    space and shipping the the strong
  • 00:41:09
    against imperialism and capitalism
  • 00:41:16
    Jeff for preempting the issues of what
  • 00:41:20
    our friends should request of us to
  • 00:41:23
    assist facilitate and enable them going
  • 00:41:26
    forward and ourselves for the Kurdish
  • 00:41:28
    struggle in particular how to articulate
  • 00:41:31
    those struggles to reach a point where
  • 00:41:34
    we can speak together however it's
  • 00:41:36
    important to understand the contexts are
  • 00:41:38
    very a contextual challenges in the
  • 00:41:42
    different regions on the continent
  • 00:41:43
    itself are not exactly unique in the
  • 00:41:47
    sense that all are the same and the
  • 00:41:49
    solution for one would be the solution
  • 00:41:50
    for all and Community is clear on the
  • 00:41:53
    point that we need much more to be done
  • 00:41:56
    and there is validity in what you say my
  • 00:41:59
    comrade of course there is attempts made
  • 00:42:02
    years since the early 90s in South
  • 00:42:04
    Africa we've had Nelson Mandela who
  • 00:42:07
    firmly stood behind the Kurdish struggle
  • 00:42:09
    and in particular for the support of the
  • 00:42:12
    Kurdish people at a deeper political
  • 00:42:14
    level there is the blowback from Capital
  • 00:42:17
    as well as those who have their
  • 00:42:20
    interests not only turkey but their
  • 00:42:22
    allies as well domestically and outside
  • 00:42:25
    of the continent as well like we
  • 00:42:28
    experienced during our struggles against
  • 00:42:30
    a party there were those who had support
  • 00:42:32
    of pariah States during aparctic and
  • 00:42:35
    those who had support of the U.S
  • 00:42:37
    establishment itself until 1986. we see
  • 00:42:41
    much of that now in the kurdy struggle
  • 00:42:43
    but more importantly in terms of
  • 00:42:45
    international solidarity you are correct
  • 00:42:47
    when you say that there needs to be much
  • 00:42:49
    more done on the issue of Sudan Park
  • 00:42:51
    itself or facing Kurdistan had as a
  • 00:42:55
    webinar towards the senator half of last
  • 00:42:58
    year as well where our comrades from
  • 00:43:00
    Sudan were featured as well and of
  • 00:43:02
    course much more needs to be done across
  • 00:43:04
    the continent but you mentioned our
  • 00:43:06
    comrade Shiraz who did it would be I
  • 00:43:10
    think important company
  • 00:43:14
    with us would like to share a few words
  • 00:43:16
    as well on how to take this going
  • 00:43:19
    forward based on the intellectual as
  • 00:43:22
    well as the theoretical understanding
  • 00:43:25
    but bringing practices and the way
  • 00:43:27
    forward with that
  • 00:43:29
    if we may please before yours come right
  • 00:43:34
    okay thank you for that
  • 00:43:36
    um yes it's a really very interesting
  • 00:43:38
    discussion
  • 00:43:40
    um I am a little uh handicapped because
  • 00:43:43
    I'm not in Kenya so it's difficult for
  • 00:43:46
    me to feel
  • 00:43:48
    uh the reality show if you're not
  • 00:43:50
    getting talked about
  • 00:43:52
    the text is going up and uh the
  • 00:43:54
    situation of the working people and so
  • 00:43:56
    on
  • 00:43:57
    but maybe I can back a few comments in
  • 00:44:01
    general
  • 00:44:06
    might also be appropriate I think
  • 00:44:11
    uh in I think the important issue about
  • 00:44:15
    the engine struggle
  • 00:44:17
    any restaurant is that we are look each
  • 00:44:22
    country or each region rocks at
  • 00:44:26
    operating everywhere if you think about
  • 00:44:28
    the real issue in Kenya uh uh is support
  • 00:44:34
    this is
  • 00:44:35
    planted or imposed by IMF World Bank and
  • 00:44:40
    WTO
  • 00:44:42
    and if there are tax increases if all
  • 00:44:46
    the public services are being privatized
  • 00:44:49
    it's not we tend to sort of personalize
  • 00:44:54
    it with one person or one political
  • 00:44:57
    party
  • 00:44:58
    but generally you see what happened in
  • 00:45:02
    in Britain uh where there was an attempt
  • 00:45:05
    to bring some kind of
  • 00:45:07
    change from the status quo and then the
  • 00:45:11
    status at The Establishment directly so
  • 00:45:13
    viciously
  • 00:45:15
    that even today the labor party has been
  • 00:45:17
    taken over uh by by the same forces so
  • 00:45:23
    in Kenya is IMF
  • 00:45:27
    um it is the case in the whole of Africa
  • 00:45:29
    in Paris the whole of the world where
  • 00:45:32
    the working people are suffered so then
  • 00:45:35
    it is important for us to work
  • 00:45:38
    together nothing this is where the
  • 00:45:41
    internationalism comes in it that we
  • 00:45:44
    really often forget and try to keep to
  • 00:45:48
    survive economically and to to know
  • 00:45:52
    about the apology extension local level
  • 00:45:54
    that there is an international Dimension
  • 00:45:56
    that we need to work with others so in
  • 00:45:59
    that case since
  • 00:46:14
    one for instance
  • 00:46:17
    that uh secondly I think
  • 00:46:20
    we are sitting here and talking but
  • 00:46:23
    I really wish you would be to our key
  • 00:46:26
    thing is
  • 00:46:28
    our is to work with
  • 00:46:31
    our workers and peasants
  • 00:46:34
    it's strategies if intellectuals to sit
  • 00:46:37
    in this kind of nice forums and talk
  • 00:46:41
    about Revolution
  • 00:46:44
    what the exactly needs to be done in
  • 00:46:46
    terms of connecting with struggles of
  • 00:46:48
    the working class
  • 00:46:49
    and the peasantry is something that is I
  • 00:46:53
    think often missing in many of our
  • 00:46:56
    struggles
  • 00:46:59
    um
  • 00:47:05
    one on trade unionism one on mobile and
  • 00:47:10
    one on people struggles
  • 00:47:13
    what
  • 00:47:15
    the consciousness of people the past
  • 00:47:18
    Consciousness the circular classes
  • 00:47:21
    needs to be brought forward
  • 00:47:25
    you don't hear much about last conscious
  • 00:47:27
    that where is the horrible issue facing
  • 00:47:30
    Kenya in Africa and the working people
  • 00:47:32
    around the world
  • 00:47:34
    it is the imposition of capitalism
  • 00:47:37
    and our struggle
  • 00:47:39
    for Liberation which is our struggle for
  • 00:47:42
    socialism
  • 00:47:43
    but you don't hear much about socialism
  • 00:47:45
    you don't hear much about capitalism
  • 00:47:46
    because capitalism is everywhere
  • 00:47:49
    it is 13 papers Consciousness the the
  • 00:47:52
    cause of all our problems is capitalism
  • 00:47:55
    and the solution is socialism and while
  • 00:48:00
    before independence in Kenya
  • 00:48:05
    and people around him there was a
  • 00:48:09
    feeling there was awareness but what we
  • 00:48:11
    need your socialism today very few
  • 00:48:14
    organizations who talk of socialism so
  • 00:48:18
    that is part of the first step we need
  • 00:48:21
    to take
  • 00:48:23
    but talking about
  • 00:48:24
    organizations from the past
  • 00:48:27
    where you don't even have
  • 00:48:30
    Momo was an organization in Kenya
  • 00:48:34
    where it is it's equivalent today
  • 00:48:39
    in Kenya or in Africa where is the
  • 00:48:42
    organization that will speak about
  • 00:48:45
    the chain you you cannot have
  • 00:48:48
    or hope for a proper organization
  • 00:48:50
    without an organization which is
  • 00:48:54
    socialist which is Anti-Imperialist but
  • 00:48:57
    if there is no organization whoa or what
  • 00:49:00
    is going to lead that struggle
  • 00:49:03
    by learning from each other is to learn
  • 00:49:06
    about organization I think ANC said it
  • 00:49:10
    has become like uh what can we became
  • 00:49:12
    after Independence it was it was brought
  • 00:49:15
    over it was turned into its opposite so
  • 00:49:18
    what we call it is
  • 00:49:21
    the same same story South Africa it's a
  • 00:49:25
    paper from South Africa were brought
  • 00:49:29
    that Independence wins nothing
  • 00:49:32
    after Kenya became independent Evolution
  • 00:49:35
    became the same the settlers were there
  • 00:49:37
    their land was taken away it was never
  • 00:49:39
    returned so they gave Consciousness to
  • 00:49:42
    in South Africa that oh it's it's fine
  • 00:49:45
    don't fight Independence give them
  • 00:49:48
    Independence for so long as you control
  • 00:49:49
    the economy so long as you're going
  • 00:49:51
    through the land and that is the problem
  • 00:49:53
    in Africa Zimbabwe to doing this said
  • 00:49:56
    painting the same problem so our
  • 00:50:00
    discussion should walk as well on how to
  • 00:50:02
    connect with the working class how we
  • 00:50:04
    connect how we set about organization on
  • 00:50:08
    Kenyan but on Africa level and then it
  • 00:50:11
    can later with issue with or struggling
  • 00:50:15
    people outside
  • 00:50:16
    and we have a lot to learn from each
  • 00:50:18
    other
  • 00:50:20
    um
  • 00:50:22
    then
  • 00:50:24
    kind of
  • 00:50:26
    an important issue around
  • 00:50:29
    in in Kenya as well as the countries is
  • 00:50:34
    Marvel was in France in its ideologies
  • 00:50:37
    organization by the Trade union movement
  • 00:50:40
    I don't know how many people in Kenya
  • 00:50:42
    when they've heard the name of Barack
  • 00:50:45
    and saying with that
  • 00:50:47
    these were the characters who
  • 00:50:51
    video gamma Pinto
  • 00:50:54
    who will be acting their dreams
  • 00:50:58
    with clear ideology which informed the
  • 00:51:02
    ideology of Monroe
  • 00:51:05
    and because of their success
  • 00:51:08
    colonialism the imperialism the
  • 00:51:11
    imperialist made sure that the protein
  • 00:51:17
    laws and organizations
  • 00:51:20
    that organizations
  • 00:51:26
    union movement which was political as
  • 00:51:30
    well as
  • 00:51:31
    practical workers rights and they
  • 00:51:34
    brought in code to an office Affiliated
  • 00:51:36
    things
  • 00:51:37
    and so the consciousness of its working
  • 00:51:39
    class
  • 00:51:41
    is stronger there
  • 00:51:44
    is so some of the things that some of us
  • 00:51:48
    are trying to do invention a few things
  • 00:51:50
    one is
  • 00:51:52
    the struggle at the influation level
  • 00:51:55
    our brains have been stolen for our a
  • 00:51:59
    content of resistance of imperialism
  • 00:52:01
    socialism so one of the things we are
  • 00:52:04
    trying to do
  • 00:52:05
    it is also publish our own material
  • 00:52:09
    which nobody else wants to touch drawing
  • 00:52:12
    people this organization that published
  • 00:52:14
    Progressive but a class conscious
  • 00:52:17
    material so we set the vegetables is a
  • 00:52:20
    very very small example of what can be
  • 00:52:23
    done
  • 00:52:24
    at the same time related with it is a
  • 00:52:27
    composite Library
  • 00:52:29
    information publishing is okay but you
  • 00:52:33
    need a movement
  • 00:52:40
    where there can be actions planned
  • 00:52:43
    around issues that matter on the of the
  • 00:52:47
    day so go with the library feels that
  • 00:52:50
    are also the tool to get their work and
  • 00:52:52
    work with
  • 00:52:54
    Community groups and social justice
  • 00:52:56
    centers and in other community groups
  • 00:53:01
    working class perspective
  • 00:53:04
    the
  • 00:53:06
    actually the second or other thing we
  • 00:53:08
    are doing is
  • 00:53:11
    this as far as I know there is no
  • 00:53:14
    socialist organization in Kenya but one
  • 00:53:17
    missing link is
  • 00:53:19
    uh
  • 00:53:21
    a Trade union movement the British and
  • 00:53:24
    Trade union movement so what we are
  • 00:53:27
    doing the kunguzi library or is the
  • 00:53:29
    books
  • 00:53:31
    we are working with the Marx Memorial
  • 00:53:32
    Library
  • 00:53:35
    as we are developing a course
  • 00:53:38
    on a trade unionism
  • 00:53:40
    uh
  • 00:53:42
    but interesting enough marketing where
  • 00:53:44
    the library already had the course and
  • 00:53:46
    trade unionism power and something else
  • 00:53:49
    what we are doing is we're developing a
  • 00:53:52
    new curriculum working with them and
  • 00:53:54
    working with the composite Library
  • 00:53:56
    to
  • 00:53:57
    Kenyan context
  • 00:54:00
    and possibly an African context
  • 00:54:03
    in the training program so we'll be
  • 00:54:06
    working on it and very soon in the very
  • 00:54:08
    near future we'll be running the first
  • 00:54:10
    course or trade unions uh
  • 00:54:14
    through with Kenyan presenters with
  • 00:54:17
    Kenyan content
  • 00:54:21
    history and Kenyan present
  • 00:54:25
    idea the idea is to attract accessories
  • 00:54:29
    and tribunalists into this course and so
  • 00:54:34
    that we start some kind of a movement of
  • 00:54:37
    activists working in the political field
  • 00:54:41
    Trade union movement in the community
  • 00:54:44
    says Etc so that
  • 00:54:47
    where it is start creating your
  • 00:54:49
    Consciousness and awareness of of
  • 00:54:52
    classes clusterical imperialism and
  • 00:54:55
    interoperism so those are some of the
  • 00:54:58
    things that we are working on in the
  • 00:54:59
    questions how we can work together or
  • 00:55:02
    how we can support each other I think
  • 00:55:03
    these are some of the things we're ready
  • 00:55:05
    to keep blessed in Kenya besides what is
  • 00:55:08
    the community groups and the social
  • 00:55:10
    justice centers are doing so maybe there
  • 00:55:12
    is a need for some kind of working
  • 00:55:15
    together around some of these ideas
  • 00:55:18
    that's something
  • 00:55:21
    thank you very much Cambridge Dean for
  • 00:55:24
    sharing your views and input of course
  • 00:55:27
    you emphasize the importance of working
  • 00:55:30
    with Grassroots the working class which
  • 00:55:33
    is well received and understood by all
  • 00:55:35
    of us here comes Jeffrey Estella uh all
  • 00:55:39
    of us in peace in Kurdistan understand
  • 00:55:41
    well including comrade Sydney who was a
  • 00:55:45
    very important in the formation of the
  • 00:55:47
    UDF in South Africa and South Africa
  • 00:55:50
    stands at episcopy where we've
  • 00:55:52
    understood that to put it in Australian
  • 00:55:55
    terms the nation state has failed its
  • 00:55:57
    people because of the co-opting that has
  • 00:56:00
    been so well articulated by comrades
  • 00:56:03
    here in South Africa and elsewhere and
  • 00:56:06
    of course the international
  • 00:56:07
    organizations such as the IMF the
  • 00:56:10
    international monetary fund the World
  • 00:56:12
    Bank and the structural adjustment
  • 00:56:14
    policies that have ravaged the African
  • 00:56:16
    continent and other states as well
  • 00:56:19
    throughout the globe the issue of
  • 00:56:21
    leadership who leads this kind of
  • 00:56:24
    Internet solidarity campaigns how will
  • 00:56:26
    it be coordinated where must it be what
  • 00:56:29
    resources do we have how do we
  • 00:56:31
    understand that the example of reading
  • 00:56:34
    groups and so on which are well known in
  • 00:56:37
    starving movements but today we
  • 00:56:39
    understand that the lengthy pieces of
  • 00:56:42
    Publications no more get the deserved
  • 00:56:44
    attention that they should instead
  • 00:56:46
    people want short quick fixes to move on
  • 00:56:49
    when you look at the trade Union
  • 00:56:50
    movements and I will share a little
  • 00:56:52
    example we met with our friends who come
  • 00:56:54
    from the British trade unions a few days
  • 00:56:56
    ago and they shared similar struggles
  • 00:56:58
    that they are having domestically as
  • 00:57:00
    well that accommodates in the struggle
  • 00:57:02
    movements too don't want to be labored
  • 00:57:04
    with much except that if it's a good
  • 00:57:07
    cause let's stand with it but they are
  • 00:57:09
    so unwrapped with the local struggles
  • 00:57:11
    that the time for international
  • 00:57:13
    solidarity has been put on the back burn
  • 00:57:15
    and that was resonated here as well with
  • 00:57:18
    us in kosatu a giant of a trade Union
  • 00:57:21
    amalgamate Nation itself has been
  • 00:57:23
    co-opted and the disgraceful way in
  • 00:57:26
    which it has responded from Americana up
  • 00:57:29
    until now when we've had individuals who
  • 00:57:31
    were on our peace in Kurdistan program
  • 00:57:33
    yamadiba crisis action committee as well
  • 00:57:36
    as comrades from the abasali boson Jolo
  • 00:57:39
    who've been targeted by instruments of
  • 00:57:41
    the state itself so the attempts that
  • 00:57:44
    are being made
  • 00:57:45
    comradeen as you brought to us are very
  • 00:57:48
    important in building the way forward
  • 00:57:51
    and your emphasis on knowledge and
  • 00:57:54
    education and the conscientization that
  • 00:57:57
    must drive that and the absence of
  • 00:57:59
    Socialism or as some year would say the
  • 00:58:03
    ideas of democratic confederalism as a
  • 00:58:06
    way in which the synthesis of the
  • 00:58:08
    failures of those theoretical Frameworks
  • 00:58:10
    that held Us in good Steed in decades
  • 00:58:13
    gone by must now be renewed and
  • 00:58:15
    re-looked at afresh
  • 00:58:17
    before we continue further on those
  • 00:58:19
    important points there is comrade
  • 00:58:22
    wanjira who was here with us as well uh
  • 00:58:25
    comrade does our comrade wanjira one who
  • 00:58:28
    perhaps speak of the resistance with law
  • 00:58:30
    as a weapon he's been very successfully
  • 00:58:33
    used here in South Africa
  • 00:58:35
    and I am sure with your linkages with
  • 00:58:37
    them you can share with us here on this
  • 00:58:39
    platform maybe comrade when jira who
  • 00:58:42
    spoke so and articulated on the legal
  • 00:58:45
    battles that they've been successful
  • 00:58:47
    with as an instrument within the
  • 00:58:49
    configuration of capitalist structures
  • 00:58:51
    uh comrade waringa if it's possible to
  • 00:58:55
    share with us a few ideas you have on
  • 00:58:59
    the questions first initiated by comrade
  • 00:59:01
    Jeffrey thank you comrade
  • 00:59:09
    yes thank you very much and um Everybody
  • 00:59:13
    watch for that movement and uh and let
  • 00:59:15
    them and them and them Africa as regards
  • 00:59:18
    the Lord question with housing questions
  • 00:59:20
    absorb which we must and very much like
  • 00:59:23
    to vote for uh within the record Network
  • 00:59:26
    it is um
  • 00:59:28
    which is best within the people of
  • 00:59:29
    Madara it is best within the informal
  • 00:59:31
    settlement of other which makes it very
  • 00:59:34
    um which makes it very Prime you're not
  • 00:59:36
    organizing within a people most depraved
  • 00:59:38
    also of their social justice and human
  • 00:59:39
    rights to organize them around the
  • 00:59:42
    issues of um you know around the issues
  • 00:59:44
    of social justice because again um you
  • 00:59:46
    know one of the Articles of our
  • 00:59:47
    Constitution which provides a very huge
  • 00:59:49
    side of struggle is an article a double
  • 00:59:52
    article 43 which is the article not
  • 00:59:53
    social justice
  • 00:59:55
    you know which provides and details
  • 00:59:57
    social justice and you know I've been
  • 00:59:59
    making the deal of Rights and of course
  • 01:00:01
    we can take one of those and organize
  • 01:00:02
    the people around them because for
  • 01:00:04
    example we take the law question which
  • 01:00:06
    is also that's an example the water
  • 01:00:08
    question you know because most of the
  • 01:00:09
    people in Madara clean and safe water
  • 01:00:11
    for drinking so within that question of
  • 01:00:14
    you know that the provision of the
  • 01:00:16
    Constitution that there should be
  • 01:00:17
    permission of water for the people you
  • 01:00:19
    know the promotion of water the social
  • 01:00:20
    justice right within the Constitution
  • 01:00:22
    but then the people of madare
  • 01:00:25
    you know of being safe and you know
  • 01:00:27
    clean safe drinking water in the Dignity
  • 01:00:29
    of you know of um something that's basic
  • 01:00:32
    as toilets you know hygiene and
  • 01:00:34
    nutrition you know within that article
  • 01:00:36
    we use other Organization for example
  • 01:00:39
    ngos that anticipation about you know
  • 01:00:41
    there's some Progressive ngos when we
  • 01:00:42
    speak about the question of you know um
  • 01:00:44
    of neoliberalism within the NGO and
  • 01:00:46
    discourse but they're also under
  • 01:00:47
    Progressive ngos that we partner with
  • 01:00:49
    which uh you know which can take up the
  • 01:00:52
    you know the task of finding these cases
  • 01:00:54
    he approach and you know these people
  • 01:00:55
    are mobilized around those those um you
  • 01:00:58
    know issues of um you know clean and
  • 01:00:59
    Safe Water
  • 01:01:01
    and then when it comes to the question
  • 01:01:02
    for example of extrajudicial killings
  • 01:01:04
    you know the victims or the survivors so
  • 01:01:07
    to speak of extrajudicial opinions about
  • 01:01:09
    myself
  • 01:01:10
    you know through using the law for
  • 01:01:13
    example
  • 01:01:14
    um the formation of the women the
  • 01:01:17
    formation of women and survivors of
  • 01:01:19
    victims
  • 01:01:20
    survivors movement survivors of
  • 01:01:22
    questions of actual judicial killings
  • 01:01:23
    affirm themselves as a you know as an
  • 01:01:26
    organization based on the fact that most
  • 01:01:28
    of them are brought together by a class
  • 01:01:30
    action suit you know through public
  • 01:01:31
    interest litigation cases that come
  • 01:01:34
    together and you know these people are
  • 01:01:35
    brought together to file their
  • 01:01:36
    litigation to demand for example a
  • 01:01:38
    commission of inquiry within those
  • 01:01:40
    extrajudicial killings so now the same
  • 01:01:42
    morning
  • 01:01:49
    organize people around these particular
  • 01:01:51
    issues a lot of those women form
  • 01:01:53
    themselves with a public interest
  • 01:01:54
    litigation case was formed around the
  • 01:01:56
    issues of Western Judicial killings when
  • 01:01:58
    it when it comes to the campaign for
  • 01:02:00
    example of the United States what are
  • 01:02:01
    those are also organized within that
  • 01:02:03
    question so now am I taking up a whole
  • 01:02:04
    company as I had said are you of
  • 01:02:06
    apological Justice when all these spaces
  • 01:02:08
    as well formed through this campaign you
  • 01:02:10
    don't give you life you know that you
  • 01:02:12
    know because
  • 01:02:13
    um this articles of the Constitution can
  • 01:02:15
    only get life if they are mobilized
  • 01:02:17
    within the people because the most
  • 01:02:18
    important thing is for us to our
  • 01:02:20
    community agency because Community
  • 01:02:22
    agency is the only thing that can give
  • 01:02:24
    the people power to understand the
  • 01:02:25
    self-determination is within within
  • 01:02:28
    their reach
  • 01:02:29
    and it takes them organizing and then we
  • 01:02:31
    link them with the you know student
  • 01:02:33
    activists with uh you know between
  • 01:02:34
    lawyers within the strap you know other
  • 01:02:37
    organizations also involved in this
  • 01:02:38
    particular struggle to amplify these
  • 01:02:40
    voices and amplify this conversation you
  • 01:02:42
    understand them from very simple
  • 01:02:44
    conversations that are very easily
  • 01:02:45
    normalized within our communities so now
  • 01:02:48
    National conversations that needs to be
  • 01:02:49
    addressed because now that the president
  • 01:02:51
    is speaking about its educational
  • 01:02:53
    killings as his campaign rules you know
  • 01:02:55
    that is of course a continuous thing
  • 01:02:57
    that has come within uh you know within
  • 01:02:58
    the process of this struggle you know we
  • 01:03:00
    see them not speaking about the long
  • 01:03:01
    question but this one started once a
  • 01:03:03
    time normalized conversations like you
  • 01:03:05
    have a lot of houses a normalized
  • 01:03:07
    conversation you know killings on normal
  • 01:03:09
    lightsabrization with Republic interest
  • 01:03:11
    litigation cases organized into
  • 01:03:12
    Community Within These public interest
  • 01:03:14
    litigation cases they become National
  • 01:03:16
    conversations when they become things
  • 01:03:18
    that now um you know even the government
  • 01:03:20
    through the executive in the parliament
  • 01:03:21
    which is most probably are functional
  • 01:03:23
    but the community can have agency to
  • 01:03:25
    have what I expect with what Jeff calls
  • 01:03:28
    you know revolution in consciousness you
  • 01:03:30
    are different methods of um you know
  • 01:03:32
    quantitising the maths
  • 01:03:34
    political education which is most
  • 01:03:36
    important one thing one thing I was I
  • 01:03:39
    was gonna mention before we engaged them
  • 01:03:41
    already uh and I think there's a lot of
  • 01:03:43
    space for it moving forward is precisely
  • 01:03:45
    organizing people around arts and
  • 01:03:47
    culture so this is where some of the
  • 01:03:50
    stuff that we know was talking about
  • 01:03:51
    about the about the theater movement but
  • 01:03:54
    also uh the Rastafarian movement is very
  • 01:03:56
    interested in in pushing forward a
  • 01:03:58
    Grassroots Liberation concerts around uh
  • 01:04:01
    around the informal settlements uh
  • 01:04:03
    throughout all of Africa but beginning
  • 01:04:04
    in uh Kenya and uh I think that that
  • 01:04:08
    that kind of space we can think about
  • 01:04:10
    events that help globalize they become
  • 01:04:14
    moments that could help people mobilize
  • 01:04:16
    towards it and then it leaves an
  • 01:04:17
    infrastructure and so I think with
  • 01:04:19
    respect to some of the we bring people
  • 01:04:21
    in not by promising them a reading group
  • 01:04:23
    since they don't read but we but maybe
  • 01:04:25
    we we bring them in with some Conscious
  • 01:04:27
    Reggae music that uh that gets it in
  • 01:04:30
    their head that maybe it's okay maybe
  • 01:04:31
    it's a good thing to read and so total
  • 01:04:34
    it's part of a process but using the
  • 01:04:36
    arts and culture to to build
  • 01:04:38
    infrastructure for uh Grassroots
  • 01:04:41
    Liberation understood as
  • 01:04:43
    self-determination and Community
  • 01:04:44
    empowerment that's the only way that the
  • 01:04:46
    social justice center movement can
  • 01:04:47
    actually uh uh impregnate so to speak
  • 01:04:50
    the the uh the the the the forces that
  • 01:04:54
    the forces that are latent and and
  • 01:04:56
    revolutionary at the Grassroots
  • 01:05:00
    Mohammed can I make comments on the
  • 01:05:03
    question you asked about the
  • 01:05:05
    the please go ahead
  • 01:05:08
    yes at least go ahead we'll see a very
  • 01:05:11
    fundamental question about using a
  • 01:05:14
    liberal Democratic constitution in the
  • 01:05:16
    in helping to articulate the the
  • 01:05:18
    struggle the people like the shark
  • 01:05:20
    dwellers are doing in South Africa and
  • 01:05:22
    the struggle that you have used the
  • 01:05:24
    powerful framework of the Constitution
  • 01:05:27
    to articulate those issues and I think
  • 01:05:30
    even us is what we are trying enable the
  • 01:05:32
    formation of social justice center as
  • 01:05:34
    Community waringa has spoken about is
  • 01:05:36
    borrowed from our Constitution which has
  • 01:05:38
    values over
  • 01:05:40
    human rights social justice itself an
  • 01:05:43
    element of people's democracy cell of
  • 01:05:46
    the termination and I thought we were
  • 01:05:49
    borrowing uh on and uh and trying to
  • 01:05:51
    create an environment that that can
  • 01:05:54
    create seeds of building a power of
  • 01:05:56
    working-class movement from below and
  • 01:05:58
    that's why we are we our Democratic
  • 01:06:00
    space that we can able to invite
  • 01:06:02
    probably like Jeff it's come on
  • 01:06:04
    convenient with us as ideological
  • 01:06:06
    seminars on a the struggle of the
  • 01:06:08
    Kurdish people in the same space that
  • 01:06:11
    has allowed hours and comrade to
  • 01:06:13
    establish the library and and many other
  • 01:06:17
    uh many other platform that we are using
  • 01:06:19
    but a Greek I would be a very strong
  • 01:06:23
    with the commercials are saying that and
  • 01:06:25
    the question is was to be done one we
  • 01:06:28
    agreeing that we are borrowing tactics
  • 01:06:30
    and strategy as a college Democratic
  • 01:06:32
    movement has done but the the challenge
  • 01:06:35
    we have and in our younger generation is
  • 01:06:38
    to build an organization it has been a
  • 01:06:40
    very major struggle at the moment it's
  • 01:06:42
    not like South Africa where we have a
  • 01:06:44
    different platform although Muhammad
  • 01:06:46
    would have said they have been very
  • 01:06:47
    compromised and corrupted by capitalism
  • 01:06:50
    caption and we don't have a strong Trade
  • 01:06:54
    union movement and in fact I can't think
  • 01:06:56
    of any Trade union that is strong in
  • 01:06:58
    Kenya even those who are based in the
  • 01:07:00
    universities they are they still
  • 01:07:02
    articulate the same issues of new
  • 01:07:04
    liberalism self-interest even the
  • 01:07:07
    children you know they don't link either
  • 01:07:09
    with other trade unions they they think
  • 01:07:11
    that we need to learn from South Africa
  • 01:07:13
    and that's from your side is how the
  • 01:07:15
    informal workers because of the big
  • 01:07:17
    problem of their privatization
  • 01:07:21
    um
  • 01:07:22
    a lot of people have been laid off and a
  • 01:07:25
    lot of work that is happening now which
  • 01:07:27
    is a casual laborer like a women a women
  • 01:07:30
    a lot of work that has been done by
  • 01:07:32
    women and they are not a in an employee
  • 01:07:36
    contract and a huge Hawking problem like
  • 01:07:39
    in yesterday uh we lost almost 51 people
  • 01:07:42
    who are Hawkers I like selling Machinery
  • 01:07:45
    along the road and the trailer came and
  • 01:07:48
    they lost their speed and crashed all of
  • 01:07:49
    them just those are my tires of the
  • 01:07:53
    working class or who a big crashed by an
  • 01:07:55
    economic system like an electlessness
  • 01:07:57
    over roads and uh economy that has no
  • 01:08:00
    spaces for this kind of work I pay the
  • 01:08:04
    Traders
  • 01:08:07
    so I think the thing that you can learn
  • 01:08:10
    through South Africa and I think you
  • 01:08:12
    have started very well of how you
  • 01:08:13
    beautify this in a casual workers and I
  • 01:08:19
    think the idea of democratic
  • 01:08:20
    conservatives is very passed by building
  • 01:08:22
    powers from below as creating assemblies
  • 01:08:25
    we tried here in Nairobi with the
  • 01:08:27
    people's Parliament and also it is
  • 01:08:29
    linked with social justice movement and
  • 01:08:32
    I think the the idea of and that is
  • 01:08:34
    where the the legal empowerment Network
  • 01:08:37
    coming that is read by Warren that you
  • 01:08:39
    can take a class suitcase off right to
  • 01:08:42
    water
  • 01:08:43
    take it to work to our court sometimes
  • 01:08:46
    they make a progressive pronouncement
  • 01:08:48
    then we use those Progressive
  • 01:08:50
    pronouncements to organize our our
  • 01:08:54
    movement but uh the key questions
  • 01:08:56
    remaining with what she doesn't read
  • 01:08:58
    after that where is a with a is a
  • 01:09:02
    institutional political institution
  • 01:09:03
    where we can use it to contest for
  • 01:09:06
    political power I think that Jeff is a
  • 01:09:09
    contestant because I know he's writing
  • 01:09:11
    and he is a is he and also you have said
  • 01:09:14
    it's a moment about those framework of
  • 01:09:17
    the Vanguard party and the idea of
  • 01:09:20
    having a political party as a vehicle to
  • 01:09:22
    capture political power I know Jeff and
  • 01:09:25
    uh many many communities are contesting
  • 01:09:28
    that question and you have also said it
  • 01:09:29
    how do you reframe those Theory and
  • 01:09:33
    um uh
  • 01:09:35
    theoretical framework that we used to do
  • 01:09:37
    over class class and class analysis and
  • 01:09:39
    abandoned party and there's a book by
  • 01:09:42
    that's Estella and is named after the
  • 01:09:45
    book for Sarah the book where they don't
  • 01:09:48
    forget the name of the book that was
  • 01:09:50
    written by that matter of Kurdish
  • 01:09:52
    movement
  • 01:09:54
    um let's talk about my whole life in the
  • 01:09:57
    struggle and they speak very strongly
  • 01:10:00
    about the history of the pkk and how how
  • 01:10:04
    it had um it had a limitation in
  • 01:10:07
    organizing and essence of now or
  • 01:10:10
    challenge has written more about
  • 01:10:12
    Democratic Confederates I think the this
  • 01:10:15
    this is where we can say with it because
  • 01:10:18
    we can't they they Trade union movement
  • 01:10:21
    and Shiraz has spoken very well the
  • 01:10:23
    Trade union movements of 1970 80s 90s is
  • 01:10:27
    it the same trade unions that we are
  • 01:10:29
    speaking about is it how we will
  • 01:10:31
    organize the working class what will
  • 01:10:33
    happen the ecological crisis how will be
  • 01:10:36
    the working class being organized and I
  • 01:10:38
    think that's where we are and we need a
  • 01:10:41
    lot of research a lot of learning
  • 01:10:43
    together on how to recognize millions of
  • 01:10:46
    young people in Africa whoa have no a
  • 01:10:49
    job how do you organize them
  • 01:10:55
    and
  • 01:10:57
    thank you my comrade gacheke you've
  • 01:11:00
    summed up what's been said this
  • 01:11:02
    afternoon very eloquently and very well
  • 01:11:04
    and it is clear from what you've said
  • 01:11:07
    that we need to work closer together
  • 01:11:08
    down in the South as well as you there
  • 01:11:11
    in Kenya as well as peace in Kurdistan
  • 01:11:14
    coordinating and assisting and I think
  • 01:11:16
    one way in which we can go forward which
  • 01:11:18
    we concluded at the previous piece in
  • 01:11:21
    Kurdistan seminar with friends from the
  • 01:11:23
    Grassroots organizations down here in
  • 01:11:25
    the South was that we must have a
  • 01:11:28
    meeting or a convergence that you
  • 01:11:30
    suggested earlier perhaps on a platform
  • 01:11:32
    like this going ahead where their
  • 01:11:35
    representatives can engage with you
  • 01:11:37
    directly as well in the fall nearly just
  • 01:11:41
    hosted by us Jeff and myself comrade
  • 01:11:43
    Estella can merely moderate the session
  • 01:11:46
    and so on and then we can converge with
  • 01:11:48
    that as well however that is one
  • 01:11:51
    possibility I see Community Stella as
  • 01:11:53
    indicated to say something from the
  • 01:11:56
    Stella please go ahead oh can you hear
  • 01:11:59
    me yes yeah
  • 01:12:02
    okay
  • 01:12:04
    well
  • 01:12:06
    uh I wanted to go into the question of
  • 01:12:10
    what comrade has raised
  • 01:12:14
    it comes up
  • 01:12:16
    you're now pretty why the issue of Kenya
  • 01:12:21
    radio new book when the other movements
  • 01:12:24
    the building
  • 01:12:26
    of a real movement between the different
  • 01:12:31
    sections of society yeah
  • 01:12:35
    so the focus of this has to be what is
  • 01:12:39
    the issue learning
  • 01:12:41
    you cannot
  • 01:12:43
    actually
  • 01:12:44
    if you're talking about Roger and the
  • 01:12:48
    cats
  • 01:12:49
    it is not a question of copy
  • 01:12:53
    you know the actual
  • 01:12:55
    hardship
  • 01:12:58
    it is the question of understanding
  • 01:13:01
    how the movement
  • 01:13:04
    in India
  • 01:13:06
    historically politically socially
  • 01:13:09
    culturally developed
  • 01:13:13
    and to understand it from the context of
  • 01:13:17
    the Press International crisis
  • 01:13:22
    a lot of people in this
  • 01:13:25
    in this uh discussion
  • 01:13:28
    appeared mentioned in British conflicts
  • 01:13:32
    we are actually moving today
  • 01:13:35
    internationally
  • 01:13:37
    okay what face it global struggage
  • 01:13:42
    what faces the global movement
  • 01:13:46
    Bob faces
  • 01:13:48
    the people from workers to Grassroots
  • 01:13:51
    organize this sessions to all sections
  • 01:13:55
    of society
  • 01:13:57
    we are not in the normal situation two
  • 01:14:01
    years ago three years ago five years ago
  • 01:14:03
    and yes
  • 01:14:06
    but my sense with respect one of the
  • 01:14:17
    the ways in which a platform like peace
  • 01:14:20
    and Kurdistan can be really useful to
  • 01:14:21
    people we really need to be an open
  • 01:14:25
    invitation like tell us what to do we
  • 01:14:27
    want to figure out a way to coordinate
  • 01:14:29
    trying to say it's you know the question
  • 01:14:33
    is how we playing this discussion of
  • 01:14:36
    course into for example in the market
  • 01:14:39
    before the county okay
  • 01:14:43
    but but maybe people should maybe people
  • 01:14:46
    who are in the Internationals they
  • 01:14:47
    should think about maybe taking a trip
  • 01:14:49
    taking a trip to Kenya you know meeting
  • 01:14:52
    up with the comrades of Kenyan and then
  • 01:14:54
    maybe maybe when they're down in Kenya
  • 01:14:55
    maybe maybe if someone could go out of
  • 01:14:57
    South Africa and create real real links
  • 01:15:01
    from these virtual leaks yeah
  • 01:15:05
    well that is true but they have to find
  • 01:15:08
    a way to the first book we are actually
  • 01:15:11
    contacted yeah we want to clarify the
  • 01:15:15
    political questions first that's why we
  • 01:15:18
    are calling this sentence yes we do have
  • 01:15:21
    already logic
  • 01:15:23
    okay your apps your object is a very
  • 01:15:26
    good one okay
  • 01:15:28
    through the Arts itself you know there's
  • 01:15:31
    many different leagues that can be
  • 01:15:33
    shaped that go beyond just individual
  • 01:15:37
    moves that's like hey can I say
  • 01:15:39
    something just related to that is the on
  • 01:15:42
    the organizational question I definitely
  • 01:15:44
    agree we need organization but I don't
  • 01:15:46
    agree that we need an organization I
  • 01:15:48
    believe we need many organizations to be
  • 01:15:50
    learning how to work together because I
  • 01:15:52
    know for example with the Rastafarian
  • 01:15:54
    movement you're not going to get any
  • 01:15:55
    Rastafarians are going to be able to
  • 01:15:57
    join the Communist Party of Kenya but
  • 01:15:59
    they will organize an event again
  • 01:16:02
    yeah you know precisely but in a way
  • 01:16:06
    they have to work out in kids exactly
  • 01:16:08
    that's what needs to be worked out and
  • 01:16:10
    maybe we can play a role helping them
  • 01:16:11
    work that out
  • 01:16:13
    yeah we can play a role by actually
  • 01:16:16
    using also the resources for example
  • 01:16:21
    the funds
  • 01:16:23
    at recently you know the try example in
  • 01:16:28
    Cambridge the other and yeah that that
  • 01:16:32
    is a blockchain well you know somebody
  • 01:16:35
    like a chicken or our friend we know
  • 01:16:39
    could be invited yes you know and be
  • 01:16:43
    presented on platforms up and down they
  • 01:16:46
    can't yes okay so that would be a way to
  • 01:16:51
    break it off
  • 01:16:53
    getting people to do delegations you
  • 01:16:55
    know get organizing Spreading the News
  • 01:16:58
    and getting people to organize
  • 01:16:59
    delegations internationalists
  • 01:17:00
    internationalist brigades going down
  • 01:17:03
    spending two three weeks learning about
  • 01:17:04
    the movement and that's being able to
  • 01:17:06
    implement you know what laptop
  • 01:17:10
    limitations
  • 01:17:14
    itself which is my point it's true I
  • 01:17:18
    mean
  • 01:17:19
    many organizations have not stepped yes
  • 01:17:23
    or Australian campaign in the UK lost
  • 01:17:26
    its value yes it because you trade Union
  • 01:17:29
    suddenly had their own problems too of
  • 01:17:32
    course okay so on the other but on the
  • 01:17:34
    other hand the the zoom meet this kind
  • 01:17:37
    of virtual meeting is a lot more
  • 01:17:39
    thinkable for people people can
  • 01:17:41
    understand it a lot more than they did
  • 01:17:42
    before and so we have to also despite
  • 01:17:44
    the terror of this of the conjunction
  • 01:17:46
    we're in we have to be able to think
  • 01:17:48
    about what are ways that we can use the
  • 01:17:50
    opportunities to present themselves now
  • 01:17:51
    to organize International
  • 01:17:54
    yeah of course of course you're not but
  • 01:17:57
    anyway we are trying to do that debit
  • 01:17:59
    yes yes all right otherwise I would push
  • 01:18:03
    this product of course but not easy to
  • 01:18:07
    organize no starting to tell you
  • 01:18:10
    yeah we have what we have 12 people in
  • 01:18:13
    it okay yes to about 120.
  • 01:18:18
    yeah and I can tell you one thing is
  • 01:18:21
    that of course if you happen the issue
  • 01:18:24
    that is just of the color
  • 01:18:26
    we subtly get on there on the issues of
  • 01:18:30
    corresponding to for you know to the
  • 01:18:34
    recorded message
  • 01:18:36
    yeah people okay yeah hold it better
  • 01:18:40
    so in a way it's a small indication that
  • 01:18:44
    maybe
  • 01:18:46
    good recording yeah but I think part of
  • 01:18:49
    the issue is it like we think about
  • 01:18:51
    raising raising Consciousness but it
  • 01:18:54
    would be good if we could get some of
  • 01:18:55
    our Curtis fries to come to these things
  • 01:18:58
    yeah if we're organizing as peace in
  • 01:19:00
    Kurdistan and there's no Kurdish person
  • 01:19:01
    here
  • 01:19:03
    okay can I give you the answer yeah okay
  • 01:19:06
    the Kurdish people are in a
  • 01:19:08
    in the most unconscious War yeah facing
  • 01:19:13
    not just the church state but the Middle
  • 01:19:16
    Eastern State and the international
  • 01:19:18
    State yes that's true from the West two
  • 01:19:22
    days
  • 01:19:23
    to the South
  • 01:19:25
    okay so please don't that underestimate
  • 01:19:28
    that that urgency of those situations
  • 01:19:31
    let's talk in the Middle East yeah
  • 01:19:34
    people are killed every day we have
  • 01:19:37
    hundreds of thousands of people in
  • 01:19:38
    prison yes okay optional
  • 01:19:43
    Etc
  • 01:19:44
    yet the inspiration comes from there
  • 01:19:47
    still
  • 01:19:49
    you know some of the peoples for example
  • 01:19:52
    I want to raise the issue of the network
  • 01:19:56
    for alternative quests yes to try to
  • 01:20:00
    organize a conference in Hamburg in that
  • 01:20:03
    they try to stop they tried to stop it
  • 01:20:05
    yeah
  • 01:20:06
    I have a friend I think who joined us
  • 01:20:10
    okay uh
  • 01:20:12
    so maybe Sid could
  • 01:20:16
    yeah
  • 01:20:18
    now in terms of joining all these women
  • 01:20:22
    who are good
  • 01:20:24
    are somehow engaged in that struggle
  • 01:20:27
    over in Roger
  • 01:20:30
    and the the women who can't in Europe
  • 01:20:34
    okay they are busy with organizing
  • 01:20:38
    effects it tells only a few on top of it
  • 01:20:42
    in the diaspora that we have in Europe
  • 01:20:45
    who speak English
  • 01:20:48
    okay yeah so I bought two race
  • 01:20:51
    constantly it is because
  • 01:20:56
    yes it has been since 1986
  • 01:21:01
    yeah of course well that of course
  • 01:21:05
    my work we stick out to the
  • 01:21:07
    international movement
  • 01:21:09
    yes
  • 01:21:10
    yes and it seems to back to get back to
  • 01:21:14
    your point I mean given the urgency of
  • 01:21:16
    the situation right now now is the time
  • 01:21:18
    to really be thinking about what is our
  • 01:21:19
    plan of action because uh it's not like
  • 01:21:22
    things are going to get any easier
  • 01:21:23
    yeah of course but I'm just saying there
  • 01:21:27
    are major problems involved even as a
  • 01:21:30
    focus group like Eastern Kurdistan we
  • 01:21:33
    have problems in having those people
  • 01:21:35
    that we had them
  • 01:21:40
    it's a real Challenge and I'm not saying
  • 01:21:43
    one cannot resolve it but then for
  • 01:21:46
    example I'll put the chicken that is the
  • 01:21:49
    issue was our Kurdish friends and all
  • 01:21:52
    that I have to say you know they are
  • 01:21:55
    trying very hard to do their best what
  • 01:21:58
    they can okay but they are in the
  • 01:22:01
    resources at this present stage
  • 01:22:08
    I think that had to do with the crisis
  • 01:22:10
    of imagination people have a hard time
  • 01:22:13
    you can say that there's there's
  • 01:22:14
    revolutionary conditions but people have
  • 01:22:16
    a hard time even beginning to imagine a
  • 01:22:18
    revolutionary situation at the top of
  • 01:22:21
    the world at all but they said not just
  • 01:22:23
    but it is because
  • 01:22:27
    yes yes right exactly exactly I mean
  • 01:22:31
    anyway
  • 01:22:33
    and you know but the importance is that
  • 01:22:37
    we find information means to get this uh
  • 01:22:41
    material that we have on this webinar
  • 01:22:45
    out to the people here in the UK and
  • 01:22:48
    anywhere where we can okay
  • 01:22:50
    so and that is where Baku comes in and
  • 01:22:54
    the recording of the issue but not just
  • 01:22:57
    the recording but the organization
  • 01:23:00
    through
  • 01:23:02
    passwords
  • 01:23:03
    wherever and if it means going to the
  • 01:23:06
    people who are now on strike if it is
  • 01:23:10
    thus what if it is at the railway
  • 01:23:14
    workers or whoever it is you know
  • 01:23:17
    because they will understand the problem
  • 01:23:20
    it is that difficult okay but we need to
  • 01:23:25
    have people to actually do this to go
  • 01:23:27
    there to give out the book that's the
  • 01:23:30
    Publications that we have we have
  • 01:23:32
    various materials that we can easily you
  • 01:23:36
    know data mobilize okay and we are
  • 01:23:40
    bringing out a new booklet of chapstick
  • 01:23:42
    okay on these
  • 01:23:52
    yeah you communicate Marco you can
  • 01:23:54
    continue recording
  • 01:23:55
    when you are idiots then you can check
  • 01:23:59
    out some of the things that don't need
  • 01:24:00
    but you need to capture the debates and
  • 01:24:03
    points that have yeah yeah
  • 01:24:07
    maybe a little bit but it's but it's a
  • 01:24:10
    necessary conversation
  • 01:24:12
    um yeah
  • 01:24:14
    anyway okay so I hope uh
  • 01:24:21
    is really we have to get the material
  • 01:24:24
    out and we have to use all these forms
  • 01:24:26
    if it's yeah
  • 01:24:29
    but speech white
  • 01:24:33
    I think people to come to uh to London
  • 01:24:38
    but I wanna I wanna push a little bit
  • 01:24:40
    more on just what it is that we can do
  • 01:24:42
    and what it is that we can think about
  • 01:24:43
    he has peace and Kurdistan operating
  • 01:24:46
    because it's not it doesn't seem to me
  • 01:24:48
    to be a coincidence that uh
  • 01:24:52
    my role in a lot of what's happened in
  • 01:24:54
    the last couple of years is uh people
  • 01:24:58
    are doing all kinds of stuff on the
  • 01:25:00
    ground and then my appearance on the
  • 01:25:02
    scene creates certain opportunities that
  • 01:25:04
    multiple different people can come and
  • 01:25:06
    do something together around the fact
  • 01:25:09
    that this Cambridge Professor is here
  • 01:25:11
    doing whatever Grassroots true or then
  • 01:25:14
    people can get it people get excited
  • 01:25:16
    about it it becomes a kind of an event
  • 01:25:18
    that can be used to bring people
  • 01:25:20
    together to build towards an event
  • 01:25:22
    organizational capacity and also and
  • 01:25:26
    also overcome inabilities to work
  • 01:25:28
    together that are that uh it's very
  • 01:25:32
    difficult for them to do so I think that
  • 01:25:34
    I think that we need to think creatively
  • 01:25:36
    about what as an internationalist group
  • 01:25:39
    what we how we can create opportunities
  • 01:25:41
    for the for the movement to for the
  • 01:25:44
    movement of movements to uh work
  • 01:25:46
    together on things and move forward
  • 01:25:49
    yeah well
  • 01:25:51
    I mean I have already mentioned the
  • 01:25:53
    number of things yeah maybe yeah people
  • 01:25:56
    maybe it got shaky or or whatever you
  • 01:25:59
    know has something to say with respect
  • 01:26:00
    to that
  • 01:26:07
    are you still with us
  • 01:26:10
    and that meaning that
  • 01:26:14
    yeah yes to thank Muhammad
  • 01:26:18
    the thing is um it's possible to
  • 01:26:22
    uh to see how we convince some of these
  • 01:26:26
    meetings and our materials uh we have a
  • 01:26:30
    lot of materials shared by Jeff from
  • 01:26:32
    that book of um
  • 01:26:37
    and there's another book some of the
  • 01:26:40
    books with materials will received from
  • 01:26:42
    the all Kardashian movement
  • 01:26:45
    what you're saying is that um
  • 01:26:48
    and has since a complete Joe has spoken
  • 01:26:51
    about the card issued move delegation
  • 01:26:53
    that visited South Africa and also they
  • 01:26:56
    are Kurdish a movement members who
  • 01:26:59
    visited here in Nairobi and now we also
  • 01:27:01
    working in a alternative a democratic
  • 01:27:05
    modernity in a network were also
  • 01:27:08
    involved in them
  • 01:27:10
    yeah but I think there is a criticism
  • 01:27:13
    that we need to bring out that um they
  • 01:27:17
    really not
  • 01:27:19
    and enable the kind of a patronizing of
  • 01:27:22
    the sometimes when you meet the Kurdish
  • 01:27:24
    use the ship and movements that and
  • 01:27:27
    sometimes you feel like
  • 01:27:28
    we need to accept that they can learn
  • 01:27:31
    also from us and I think also I really I
  • 01:27:34
    did participate in the Long March for
  • 01:27:36
    for Freedom meaning with the parish
  • 01:27:38
    movement in a blasted and Germany
  • 01:27:41
    there's a video on that
  • 01:27:43
    yeah but it is still old and I don't
  • 01:27:46
    want to repeat ourselves myself too much
  • 01:27:48
    more of it I think what we are saying is
  • 01:27:50
    is it possible we continue convening
  • 01:27:53
    this and and an encourage Movement try
  • 01:27:56
    to have a uh an extensive focus in
  • 01:28:00
    linking up with the the working class
  • 01:28:02
    youth struggling in Africa and it will
  • 01:28:04
    give the courage struggle a different
  • 01:28:06
    perspective and character and and it
  • 01:28:09
    will be it will be a very powerful link
  • 01:28:11
    and I think that has not shaped up well
  • 01:28:14
    I think that a first step in that link
  • 01:28:16
    is for you with Mahmoud to uh for
  • 01:28:19
    stronger links now because
  • 01:28:21
    so we could still be thinking about for
  • 01:28:24
    example organizing delegations that can
  • 01:28:26
    go and
  • 01:28:27
    sort of Beyond in situ uh in the
  • 01:28:30
    different places uh but yes I think that
  • 01:28:33
    the I think I mean that for many reasons
  • 01:28:36
    South Africa has long links to the
  • 01:28:39
    Kurdish movement of it and it's the it's
  • 01:28:41
    the it's the door within which the
  • 01:28:42
    Kurdish movement can enter uh into the
  • 01:28:46
    kind of pan-african Consciousness but I
  • 01:28:48
    think that you guys have to help you
  • 01:28:50
    guys have to help them see what they
  • 01:28:51
    cannot see
  • 01:28:53
    I'm very happy with it and I'm sure my
  • 01:28:55
    comrade
  • 01:28:56
    want to make a contribution but I'm very
  • 01:29:00
    happy because it's the first time we
  • 01:29:01
    were meeting with Muhammad and there is
  • 01:29:03
    very very powerful Division I I the
  • 01:29:05
    other we're meeting Mohammed we were
  • 01:29:07
    meeting with them Petty Bourgeois
  • 01:29:09
    lawyers who say they were leading the
  • 01:29:11
    campaign
  • 01:29:13
    I'm here then they tell us to meet them
  • 01:29:16
    in a five-star hotel in airport there so
  • 01:29:19
    I was wondering that hi are they serious
  • 01:29:24
    yeah
  • 01:29:28
    and of course it's a necessary evil
  • 01:29:31
    these meeting places that take place
  • 01:29:33
    with lawyers in hotels and so on is the
  • 01:29:36
    norm now from a Communist party members
  • 01:29:39
    would meet in no other places than those
  • 01:29:41
    Bourgeois places now unfortunately
  • 01:29:43
    covered Sydney will tell you much more
  • 01:29:46
    about that too if we would like to share
  • 01:29:48
    with us however the focus of this
  • 01:29:50
    Symposium was primarily the struggles
  • 01:29:53
    for self-determination in the 21st
  • 01:29:55
    century perspectives from Africa and the
  • 01:29:59
    focus was on Kenya so thank you comrade
  • 01:30:01
    gacheki for bringing that strongly
  • 01:30:03
    across and yes congrat Jeffrey we can
  • 01:30:05
    work much more together but with our
  • 01:30:08
    friends here as well from others
  • 01:30:11
    action crisis as well as the endless
  • 01:30:15
    people movement across the country and
  • 01:30:17
    those networks with us are quite good
  • 01:30:19
    they were with us also at last
  • 01:30:21
    conference for freedom for Ultra land as
  • 01:30:23
    well and they they really are a girl
  • 01:30:26
    organizing force and a catalyst and a
  • 01:30:29
    means to strengthen your struggles there
  • 01:30:31
    and of course the Trade union comrades
  • 01:30:34
    who as individuals within the Trade
  • 01:30:36
    union movement support us very strongly
  • 01:30:39
    on the Kurdish issues as well and
  • 01:30:41
    understand the International challenges
  • 01:30:43
    that comrade Estella is rightfully put
  • 01:30:46
    onto the Forum here where we need to
  • 01:30:48
    understand those issues well we must
  • 01:30:50
    clarify our positions as well because
  • 01:30:53
    that is what we are all facing and
  • 01:30:55
    working against but comrades Mino and
  • 01:30:58
    comrade wanjira if you have anything to
  • 01:31:00
    share as well in closing we must be
  • 01:31:02
    mindful of the time we've just clipped
  • 01:31:04
    over an hour and 10 minutes congrats
  • 01:31:07
    Gerardo Dean has tended an apology in
  • 01:31:09
    the chat he had to leave and I thanked
  • 01:31:12
    him for his contribution especially for
  • 01:31:14
    pointing out ujama and African socialism
  • 01:31:16
    as well but Congress Mino please go
  • 01:31:19
    ahead
  • 01:31:22
    uh
  • 01:31:23
    thank you uh thank you thank you
  • 01:31:26
    Columbus for this uh contributions I
  • 01:31:29
    want to agree on the second position and
  • 01:31:32
    also on this position on our arts and
  • 01:31:35
    culture so uh on that regard I want to
  • 01:31:38
    say that I think it's uh it's high times
  • 01:31:40
    that we start having conversations on
  • 01:31:42
    how we can how we advance our support
  • 01:31:44
    towards uh using Arts as a as a as a
  • 01:31:48
    famous liberation
  • 01:31:50
    towards our Liberation struggle because
  • 01:31:53
    our cities are working in Kenya and then
  • 01:31:55
    Jeff has also seen uh the impact of uh
  • 01:31:58
    the murals that we have been we have
  • 01:32:00
    been doing here in Canada so I think as
  • 01:32:02
    as we continue having these
  • 01:32:03
    conversations and as we continue having
  • 01:32:06
    this meeting to make it a topic of
  • 01:32:08
    discussion in our in our conversations
  • 01:32:10
    because uh the the theater side
  • 01:32:12
    especially the grocery markets are it
  • 01:32:15
    doesn't call for these uh dialogues
  • 01:32:17
    where you know there has been too much
  • 01:32:19
    energy
  • 01:32:22
    is very powerful because it builds where
  • 01:32:24
    the people are and it makes people own
  • 01:32:26
    their problems so that they are able to
  • 01:32:28
    fight for themselves yeah that's I think
  • 01:32:30
    that's what I can add
  • 01:32:32
    thank you very much
  • 01:32:38
    yes okay corporate um I think I would
  • 01:32:42
    on battery
  • 01:32:43
    wouldn't agree with it and say but also
  • 01:32:46
    appreciate that uh you know when our
  • 01:32:48
    comrades came you know for their treats
  • 01:32:50
    in Kenya they brought so many books
  • 01:32:51
    which are distributed around and then
  • 01:32:54
    different parts of this different social
  • 01:32:55
    justice centers within Nairobi and of
  • 01:32:58
    course there are interactions with a
  • 01:32:59
    good exchange between you know the
  • 01:33:01
    Kurdish struggles and the Kenyan
  • 01:33:02
    struggles but I think because criticism
  • 01:33:05
    is that you know what was to be done
  • 01:33:07
    moving forward was not actualized
  • 01:33:09
    because it's um some sort of well let me
  • 01:33:12
    not call it power struggle but some
  • 01:33:13
    relation of some sort that would be best
  • 01:33:15
    described as a power straw
  • 01:33:17
    but um
  • 01:33:18
    of course agree because uh you know
  • 01:33:20
    being that the topics there was
  • 01:33:22
    struggles for self-determination
  • 01:33:24
    um you know all other conversation links
  • 01:33:26
    link towards it because if we develop
  • 01:33:28
    what uh you know if we develop what is
  • 01:33:30
    to be done then it would be easy to take
  • 01:33:32
    it up
  • 01:33:33
    yes correct
  • 01:33:35
    thank you comrade waringa wahome thank
  • 01:33:38
    you for your input this afternoon as
  • 01:33:40
    well congrats with Eclipse much of our
  • 01:33:42
    time allocated and we should stick to
  • 01:33:45
    that time frames as well in closing if
  • 01:33:48
    there's any comrade whether it's
  • 01:33:49
    comparative to Marco again convert Joe
  • 01:33:51
    comrade Nick comrade Sydney Connor
  • 01:33:54
    anybody who would like to give closing
  • 01:33:56
    remarks please feel free and go ahead
  • 01:33:58
    I'll just go silent for a while and feel
  • 01:34:01
    free unmute yourself and please take a
  • 01:34:04
    minute or two and share closing remarks
  • 01:34:05
    as well
  • 01:34:09
    I guess I could I could say something
  • 01:34:10
    about so just uh I'm very happy that
  • 01:34:13
    that this that this has come uh uh
  • 01:34:17
    to fruition and I do believe that this
  • 01:34:20
    is a work in progress but I do feel I
  • 01:34:22
    begin to see progress things that it's
  • 01:34:24
    been a few years that were ideas in the
  • 01:34:26
    making that now have a kind of
  • 01:34:27
    infrastructure that is a kind of organic
  • 01:34:29
    infrastructure and uh the the I think
  • 01:34:34
    that the way in which peace and
  • 01:34:36
    Kurdistan has been working with the our
  • 01:34:37
    friends at Kenya is something that uh uh
  • 01:34:40
    we're we're getting better at it I think
  • 01:34:42
    and uh we have to continue we have to
  • 01:34:45
    continue with more events like this uh
  • 01:34:47
    to continue and forging uh the organic
  • 01:34:51
    links to these Tran these sort of
  • 01:34:53
    virtual links turn them into organic
  • 01:34:56
    links and then and then use the virtual
  • 01:34:58
    to Pro to push forward the organic links
  • 01:35:00
    more and sort of sort of play with this
  • 01:35:02
    idea between the virtual possibilities
  • 01:35:03
    and the organic realities
  • 01:35:07
    so thank you guys yeah come with Connor
  • 01:35:11
    hi uh thank you and thank you to
  • 01:35:14
    everyone here it's been
  • 01:35:16
    um I think a really great and a lot of
  • 01:35:17
    really important points of conversation
  • 01:35:20
    and um these are discussions I know that
  • 01:35:22
    have been ongoing now for some time
  • 01:35:24
    especially with Jeff uh coming to
  • 01:35:26
    Nairobi and building the connections of
  • 01:35:27
    the past years
  • 01:35:30
    um so for me I I would say that I could
  • 01:35:32
    uh very grateful to be able to be part
  • 01:35:36
    of these uh places and spaces where
  • 01:35:39
    these conversations are happening even
  • 01:35:40
    though this is a virtual space but
  • 01:35:42
    something that uh one of the great
  • 01:35:44
    benefits of these technologies that can
  • 01:35:45
    we can do these things one thing I
  • 01:35:48
    wanted to say
  • 01:35:49
    um
  • 01:35:50
    just on the sheet on the theme of
  • 01:35:52
    internationalism and Echo a lot of what
  • 01:35:54
    has been said
  • 01:35:56
    I think what's what's really important
  • 01:35:58
    is is from my perspective
  • 01:36:00
    you know in a
  • 01:36:02
    in an era of a globalized world system
  • 01:36:06
    the the fates of people and now it's no
  • 01:36:08
    longer just a human issue but the fate
  • 01:36:10
    of the biosphere the ecosphere the big
  • 01:36:12
    thing the the world has never been more
  • 01:36:14
    entangled together right in a global
  • 01:36:17
    economy a global etc etc Global State
  • 01:36:20
    system
  • 01:36:21
    uh and so the
  • 01:36:25
    as just as a matter of forces of
  • 01:36:27
    conditions
  • 01:36:28
    the question of internationalism or
  • 01:36:30
    transnationalism or collectivism
  • 01:36:33
    is imposed upon us just by the
  • 01:36:35
    conditions
  • 01:36:37
    uh with growing and increasing urgency
  • 01:36:41
    and and the problem is two and it's and
  • 01:36:45
    it's um really the problem of the
  • 01:36:47
    age-old divide and conquer issue
  • 01:36:49
    is that people
  • 01:36:51
    are through different forces and
  • 01:36:53
    circumstances in their different
  • 01:36:55
    divisions orders conditions Etc
  • 01:36:58
    and I think as as comrade Shiraz was
  • 01:37:00
    saying really really well
  • 01:37:02
    there is a though a singular World
  • 01:37:05
    structure World System there is a common
  • 01:37:07
    enemy and they're very well organized
  • 01:37:09
    they're very centralized
  • 01:37:11
    and they're very you know unified in
  • 01:37:14
    themselves or they struggle very hard to
  • 01:37:17
    be they're very concerned about
  • 01:37:18
    divisions inside of themselves
  • 01:37:21
    um and that's the whole point of
  • 01:37:25
    dividing conqueror that's how it works
  • 01:37:26
    is that you divide the other and you
  • 01:37:28
    unify yourself to divide it
  • 01:37:30
    um
  • 01:37:31
    and so in that in that context of the
  • 01:37:34
    situation we find ourselves the urgency
  • 01:37:36
    of needing to find ways to come together
  • 01:37:41
    um and with with the with the name of
  • 01:37:43
    the game the name of the issue having to
  • 01:37:45
    be self-determination the Fate the
  • 01:37:48
    destiny of us as a species as a Humanity
  • 01:37:51
    as a world
  • 01:37:53
    um
  • 01:37:54
    and I think that's you know on this this
  • 01:37:57
    point that Jeff that Jeff was saying
  • 01:37:58
    that that you the friends in in Nairobi
  • 01:38:01
    have to
  • 01:38:03
    uh find a way to help the Kurdish thread
  • 01:38:06
    and see
  • 01:38:08
    the issue right I think that's that's
  • 01:38:10
    such an important line of that is that
  • 01:38:12
    well who are the Kurds fighting NATO
  • 01:38:15
    it's the same you know
  • 01:38:17
    uh as you as you were talking about is
  • 01:38:20
    um the IMF right the IMF leaves you know
  • 01:38:25
    you can that's a great Global rallying
  • 01:38:28
    point everyone can you know the the
  • 01:38:29
    masses of the Indy five percent you know
  • 01:38:31
    90 of humanity can understand the
  • 01:38:33
    struggle with the IMF
  • 01:38:36
    um and so I think it's it's so important
  • 01:38:37
    to focus I'm sorry I'm rambling I'll cut
  • 01:38:39
    it short it's so important to focus on
  • 01:38:42
    these things that bring us together and
  • 01:38:44
    as we've been saying this practical
  • 01:38:46
    issues and of how we can use in this
  • 01:38:47
    situation we find ourselves uh and use
  • 01:38:49
    Technologies and different uh
  • 01:38:52
    experiences and sharing and building
  • 01:38:53
    abilities to go and travel and meet
  • 01:38:56
    how we can use that to find ways to
  • 01:38:58
    really try to to to bring and weave
  • 01:39:01
    ourselves together as a movement of
  • 01:39:03
    movements right the diversity is the
  • 01:39:04
    string that's the great thing about the
  • 01:39:06
    difference
  • 01:39:07
    yeah um can I can I say something just
  • 01:39:09
    related to those so thank you for
  • 01:39:11
    everyone thank you everyone thank you
  • 01:39:13
    it's been it's been an honor and a
  • 01:39:14
    pleasure
  • 01:39:15
    I think I think one of the things peace
  • 01:39:17
    and Kurdistan can do is kind of
  • 01:39:19
    articulate for internationalist people
  • 01:39:20
    that there's you know there's other ways
  • 01:39:22
    to organize in politics rather than
  • 01:39:24
    trying to you know rally around Jeremy
  • 01:39:26
    corbyn or Bernie Sanders there's other
  • 01:39:28
    things that we could be doing uh uh as
  • 01:39:31
    people with internationalist uh ideals
  • 01:39:34
    so we need to be reaching out to
  • 01:39:36
    comrades like how can we be of service
  • 01:39:41
    you're not
  • 01:39:42
    and I'm sure they have lots of ideas for
  • 01:39:44
    us
  • 01:39:46
    so yeah anyhow
  • 01:39:49
    I I want to come to South Africa
  • 01:39:53
    it will be an absolute pleasure to help
  • 01:39:55
    you here with us please let us know when
  • 01:39:57
    on road we'll figure it out we'll figure
  • 01:39:59
    it out
  • 01:40:00
    uh it's important
  • 01:40:02
    yes
  • 01:40:05
    and comrades
  • 01:40:10
    yes uh it's important because you've
  • 01:40:14
    done a lot of work together with our
  • 01:40:15
    former chair uh the late judges samusa
  • 01:40:18
    yes you dedicated a chapter in in your
  • 01:40:20
    book also on our late judge as well and
  • 01:40:23
    uh you correct when you say uh in your
  • 01:40:26
    paper that foregrounded this particular
  • 01:40:28
    seminar that Kenya is the symbol because
  • 01:40:32
    that is where the international
  • 01:40:34
    conspiracy against the Kurdish leader
  • 01:40:37
    and the Kurdish movement was in its most
  • 01:40:40
    brutal form where the capture
  • 01:40:41
    incarceration and consequence thereof of
  • 01:40:44
    him languishing on the island of imrani
  • 01:40:46
    for almost eventually now is Kenya and
  • 01:40:50
    therefore in your paper you know you
  • 01:40:52
    gave the conclusion there which is very
  • 01:40:54
    important and I'd like to
  • 01:40:56
    re-uh paraphrase it in my own words
  • 01:40:59
    a focus on Africa in general but on
  • 01:41:02
    Kenya in particular is Manifest and
  • 01:41:05
    manifold that is what you you wrote in
  • 01:41:07
    the paper we are committing to telling
  • 01:41:10
    the meta narrative both from the
  • 01:41:11
    beginning and From Below which is from
  • 01:41:14
    the ground in Kenya and Africa and the
  • 01:41:17
    meta narrative that still are very very
  • 01:41:20
    uh strongly put forward and we connect
  • 01:41:23
    with the local activists at Grassroots
  • 01:41:25
    that includes us here as well yeah and
  • 01:41:28
    Amanda Lampoon to help them articulate
  • 01:41:31
    those demands and to facilitate and
  • 01:41:33
    amplify their voices you put that very
  • 01:41:36
    very correctly okay and this for those
  • 01:41:38
    and these are abundant around the globe
  • 01:41:42
    those struggles are and my company got
  • 01:41:44
    checked the Kurdish people are fighting
  • 01:41:46
    not only NATO's second most powerful
  • 01:41:49
    turkey defecting the US France and
  • 01:41:52
    Britain including Iran Iraq turkey and
  • 01:41:55
    Syria
  • 01:41:56
    reflecting all of those States as well
  • 01:41:58
    and they're fighting those in our own
  • 01:42:01
    countries who are complicit with those
  • 01:42:04
    Regional Imperial governments as well as
  • 01:42:07
    the international ones as well including
  • 01:42:09
    the arms industry and so on they eat so
  • 01:42:11
    much yeah you know so the key to
  • 01:42:14
    connecting the struggles as you say is
  • 01:42:16
    to bring us together for what must be
  • 01:42:18
    done and yes combat Sydney has given us
  • 01:42:20
    a whole lot of resources available from
  • 01:42:23
    down here in the South ilvis aidc and so
  • 01:42:27
    on those resource resource-based
  • 01:42:30
    organizations have been doing a lot of
  • 01:42:31
    work for for a long time and a lot of
  • 01:42:34
    the literature and work covers things
  • 01:42:37
    that we know about this welcome that
  • 01:42:38
    Jeff is very articulate in it whether
  • 01:42:40
    it's from Walter Rodney to France found
  • 01:42:42
    on including the labor movement and
  • 01:42:44
    struggles in South Africa and the
  • 01:42:46
    working class here and the forms of
  • 01:42:49
    resistance and how it's endured over
  • 01:42:50
    time and the new configured
  • 01:42:52
    International struggles we faced with
  • 01:42:55
    here in South Africa as well from load
  • 01:42:57
    shedding to Shell to British Petroleum
  • 01:42:59
    the mining industrial complex as labor
  • 01:43:02
    of their Blanche somebody referred to
  • 01:43:04
    those are struggles we have so the first
  • 01:43:06
    step as you say complete Jeff is to
  • 01:43:09
    forge the organic links amongst the
  • 01:43:12
    activists and for a long time so as we
  • 01:43:17
    converge our trajectories in this
  • 01:43:19
    conjecture we find ourselves the new
  • 01:43:21
    must be born and in the words of gramsky
  • 01:43:24
    100 years on on the cusp of the Luzan
  • 01:43:27
    treaty
  • 01:43:28
    2023 that's taking place in July there's
  • 01:43:31
    a railing called by our friends from the
  • 01:43:33
    trade unions so comrade
  • 01:43:36
    all your Grassroots organizations should
  • 01:43:38
    pin a letter of support for that meeting
  • 01:43:40
    to take place in July I'll share with
  • 01:43:43
    you of that and I'm sure completely
  • 01:43:45
    still lie in many Communications will
  • 01:43:47
    share that as well and that is also a
  • 01:43:50
    step for international solidarity I
  • 01:43:52
    would like to give one example in
  • 01:43:53
    closing from the Kurdish movement when I
  • 01:43:56
    had the honor and privilege to meet one
  • 01:43:57
    of the leaders accommended result soon
  • 01:44:00
    many years ago with the net comrade
  • 01:44:02
    judge as well I was given an opportunity
  • 01:44:04
    to engage for a long time with a very
  • 01:44:07
    senior comedy and when I asked him one
  • 01:44:10
    question what has kept you going for all
  • 01:44:14
    this time to remain committed and
  • 01:44:15
    principled unlike some countries
  • 01:44:17
    post-revolution he said it is the book
  • 01:44:21
    Apple gave me that spoke about the
  • 01:44:24
    struggles of the people in Africa
  • 01:44:25
    against colonialism
  • 01:44:28
    that is what I was told and that
  • 01:44:31
    sustaining you could definitely of the
  • 01:44:33
    struggles of the people in Mozambique
  • 01:44:35
    besides South Africa the pan-africanist
  • 01:44:38
    Poco azapo all the different
  • 01:44:41
    organizations he could even explain to
  • 01:44:44
    me in detail the struggles up north from
  • 01:44:46
    The Mao Mao as well as to those that
  • 01:44:49
    formed in other parts in Algeria Tunisia
  • 01:44:51
    and so on including the West as well so
  • 01:44:55
    the leaders and those who are the cadres
  • 01:44:58
    in the Kurdish movement are very
  • 01:45:00
    familiar with the African struggles and
  • 01:45:02
    these words were keep on doing what you
  • 01:45:04
    do because you inspire us to continue
  • 01:45:07
    with your strength and resolve when you
  • 01:45:09
    could have chosen differently It Is by
  • 01:45:12
    choice in your freedom that you've
  • 01:45:14
    chosen to continue your solidarity with
  • 01:45:16
    us and I could I'd like to also just
  • 01:45:19
    emphasize the words of late Cal comrade
  • 01:45:21
    Oliver Tambo when he said our solidarity
  • 01:45:24
    will remain where those who are in the
  • 01:45:27
    struggles against oppress
  • 01:45:28
    Palestine as the picture is there in the
  • 01:45:31
    room behind your comrade early struggled
  • 01:45:34
    as well the pkk the release for Abdullah
  • 01:45:36
    is key to resolving the issue in the
  • 01:45:40
    western Asia Middle East as well as an
  • 01:45:42
    inspiration for the rest of the globe so
  • 01:45:45
    those are my closing summations and I
  • 01:45:48
    thank everybody for being
  • 01:45:50
    presently
  • 01:45:52
    Jeff thank you so much for all the work
  • 01:45:55
    you've done comrade Sydney for being
  • 01:45:57
    here with us combo Joe Marco Nico Alden
  • 01:46:00
    comrade siraju had to leave us please
  • 01:46:04
    conveyor with profound thanks to him as
  • 01:46:06
    well and of course to those who very
  • 01:46:09
    easily spend their time here as well
  • 01:46:11
    comrade
  • 01:46:15
    if we look forward to continuing our
  • 01:46:18
    work together and we look forward to the
  • 01:46:20
    edited version of this afternoon seminar
  • 01:46:23
    it's eclipsed much more than the
  • 01:46:25
    official two hours we allocate normally
  • 01:46:27
    but it's time well spent and we've
  • 01:46:29
    managed to also overcome some of the
  • 01:46:31
    thorny issues that we must if you take
  • 01:46:34
    the analogy from uh comrade Abdullah
  • 01:46:36
    when he speaks about self-defense and
  • 01:46:38
    the symbol of the roads which ComEd uh
  • 01:46:41
    Jeffrey also included in his
  • 01:46:43
    documentation that the Roses beautiful
  • 01:46:45
    as it is also has forms on the stem and
  • 01:46:48
    we need to overcome those together
  • 01:46:51
    so on those notes I thank everybody for
  • 01:46:54
    your time strengthen solidarity for
  • 01:46:56
    everybody and the struggle continues and
  • 01:46:59
    it's never been an easy ride and it
  • 01:47:01
    won't be but the fruits of our labor
  • 01:47:03
    will be born thank you very much
  • 01:47:06
    to all
  • 01:47:07
    [Music]
  • 01:47:10
    right
  • 01:47:13
    thank you
  • 01:47:15
    [Music]
Tags
  • Self-Determination
  • Kenya
  • Kurdish Struggle
  • Grassroots Movements
  • Neocolonialism
  • Neoliberalism
  • International Solidarity
  • Arts in Activism
  • Legal Empowerment
  • Socialism