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[Music]
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hi I'm Dave maritu I'm the chair of the
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black member standing committee and a
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member of the national executive
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committee I'm very pleased to introduce
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this very important witness film whether
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you share or are shocked by these very
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Frank and revealing witness statements I
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think it's very important that you hear
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what black members of staff have to face
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in the world of work in both Fe and H
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sectors
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[Music]
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for me the cover is this hidden
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Insidious sort of racism and the over
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racism is when somebody's actually
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calling you those names or the actual
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acts of violence but for me it's the
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covert racism that we now have to deal
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with and I would suggest that it's
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intelligent racists I mean I think
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that's really interesting what you're
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saying we Face a lot of racism in our
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workplaces
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which is framed and spoken in ways that
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makes it very difficult for black staff
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to get redressed I want to work I want
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my job I don't want to feel that you
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know every day I go to this place that
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makes me feel trapped and abused and
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discriminated against and then every
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time I look around and wondering what
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other negative um effect I'm going to
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have to deal with we need to rethink
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Trade union responses to racism and
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partly it is about ever Ing and seeking
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remedy but I also feel that we have a
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real job to try and prevent everyone
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having to seek remedy because if really
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every one of our black members went to
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remedy it's again kind of so widespread
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and individualized and there's something
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about
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us re-educating the sector to get
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understand well this is racism and this
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is the consequence there isn't anything
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that you can do to stop what's happening
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and you're still having to endure it and
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each day you wonder
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what sort of look what's going to happen
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what sort of impact is this racism going
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to have on today what am I going to have
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to tolerate what am I going to have to
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put up with and what am I going to have
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to face knowing that it's unfair
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[Music]
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I think it can be quite dangerous to
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discuss racism at work in various ways I
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think people are are worried about the
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response they're going to get it's not
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always a response that's about
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addressing the complaint of racism or
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the identification of racism it's often
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a response of more racism of of
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victimization of being told you have got
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a chip on your shoulder of being often
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disregarded of being ignored um uh you
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know I think a lot of the time there is
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a feeling that what's the point I'm not
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going to be heard uh this could make
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matters worse I might not actually be
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addressing the situation um I might
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actually be giving uh someone
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ammunition to uh make life more
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difficult for me black workers are often
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seen as um as people who possibly make
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excuses have a chip on the shoulder and
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those kinds of things and so I guess
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what happens is a lot of the time we
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edit what we say uh on the basis of um
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some sense of how we might be received
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and I suppose that in itself creates a
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kind of a general kind of state of being
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under The Gaze can have a state of
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tension really um but I wouldn't say my
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experience that I've ever felt it being
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dangerous as such um but certainly it
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can be
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uncomfortable uh and you end up self
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censoring I've experienced
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racism many
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times and the straightforward racism
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that's out and ofet is less helpful than
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the
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subliminal
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undermining by white colleagues which
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knows at you and doesn't terminate
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because you
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can't have evidence to actually tackle
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the problem I think there are a couple
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of things I think the first thing is
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that there's an assumption in higher
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education where I work that it already
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is a progressive workplace and that
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problems of racism don't exist and so
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when you try to raise these sorts of
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issues it's sort of like oh you know we
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we don't have to deal with those sorts
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of problems I I think another issue
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though is also um the kind of um the way
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that people feel insecure in their jobs
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um because of casualization because of
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the cuts and redundancies that are you
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know happening at the moment and also
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because of the kind of hyper competitive
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environment um connected to the ref
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sometimes there's a sense that your face
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doesn't fit and um it's not really
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attributed directly to being sort of a
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race issue but but it's it's often it's
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something that's more indirect and more
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subtle and so it's really teasing that
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stuff out I think staff who work in
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further and higher education find it
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very very difficult to explicitly talk
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about racism at work so that people use
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kind of codes secrets they have a very
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small circle that they'll talk about
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things openly with but in our broader
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workplace it's almost impossible to use
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the RW that despite all of the extremely
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bad experiences that bad black staff
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have
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including lack of opportunity for
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promotion and training being
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disproportionately targeted for
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complaints and disciplinaries and
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redundancy and everything that you would
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expect in any big set of
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workplaces sadly in our sector and I
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include our Union colleagues there's
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this sense that we're nice educated
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people how dare you call me a racist so
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to even name racism as the thing you're
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experiencing is almost impossible for
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nearly everybody uh generally I am
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reluctant to raise issues of racism at
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work whether it be from students
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colleagues or
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management
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um but I do on
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occasion when it's get not of
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Handa I think that primarily there's a
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lot of pressure on black staff to Simply
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kind of fit in to a dominant discourse
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and effectively kind of deracialized
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themselves and become part of of the
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kind of system and be rewarded
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accordingly and on the whole my
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experience is is that if people
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subjugate race um then they are much
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more likely to be seen as kind of
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acceptable to the
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organization and if you discuss racism
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the very discussion seems to trigger two
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things one it's a reminder to the white
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liberal establishment that the
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experience of being black is not the
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same experience of that of being white
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and uh that very experience seems to
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kind of trigger in many white liberal
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Educators kind of a whole range of kind
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of emotions from kind of guilt to fear
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to kind of to anger
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to almost a sort of sense of being kind
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of immobilized I think white colleagues
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and managers in particular um are
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determined not to be labeled racist so
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there's they're often very defensive
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and one thing I can say about the
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advances we've made is that that being
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labored a racist is a very toxic um uh
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uh thing to be labeled so in their
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defense often can mean that PE the
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complainant is often attacked and maybe
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um seen as or mentioned as a
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troublemaker or um uh with someone with
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a chip on a shoulder
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[Music]
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shoulder I have been at my University
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now for 11 years when you working a in a
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in in a faculty and you're the only
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black person it's incredibly
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Isola as well although you know
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universities have this policy of
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diversity it hasn't happened where where
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I have work but they do have more black
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students but having students at
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University doesn't actually make it
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diverse is what you actually do once
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they're there how they're supported and
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and and and so on so students come to
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the university and they fail you know
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and then they get blamed because they've
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come to the university but diversity is
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a lot more is a lot more than that so I
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absolutely believe that my ethnicity has
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a major impact on the way I'm treated by
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colleagues uh managers uh
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students I think that i' I've found on
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many occasions where someone with the
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more acceptable um almost um Caucasian
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or europeanized look uh might be with
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regards to uh hair clothing or even or
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even the way they they carry themselves
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or the things that they associated with
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um May often get a little bit of an
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easier time because it's not so
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difficult it's not so dangerous to enact
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with someone who is a little bit less
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out there with their ethnicity as a
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black person living in the west you're
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always positioned as the other and in
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some situations that can be um
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not only the other but the other as the
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Exotic other or the other as the um
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dangerous other so I guess uh the racism
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tends to be partly a kind of a back
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background kind of home where you always
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feel a bit like you're always having to
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justify yourself and I haven't actually
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experienced I don't think direct cases
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of discrimination but I've I've I'm very
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very aware of the fact that I don't
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possess a certain kind of authority that
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I would have if I were white or if I
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were male and um there is a sense that
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um there's a kind of underlying sense of
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maybe trying to to have to be twice as
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good or try twice as hard because you're
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going You're trying to overcome the fact
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that you don't have that sense of you
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know sort of immediate Authority or
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entitlement that you would have if
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you're in a more privileged position so
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that when black staff try to say what is
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happening to me is racism there's a
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hugely disproportionate backlash against
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them without an attempt to understand
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what black staff are saying about their
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experience and of of course people see
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that and think well I'll just keep quiet
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about that then I'll find another way of
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expressing myself or finding a
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resolution generally you feel reluctant
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sometimes I myself I lose my temper um
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as a result of it but um it does kind of
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bring home that that that there are
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issues which which which need to be
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addressed I think we all kind
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of play to Greater unless it agrees
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certain sort of you know certain games
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where the
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organization tells us that they want
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kind of black academics but it sometimes
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seems that they kind of want our
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visibility and color but they don't want
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the kind of range of experiences and uh
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passions and kind of angers and
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realities that we bring be prepared to
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say that I bring into the organization
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all that I am and all that I am includes
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my class my race my gender um and my
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racialized experiences I found manages
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to be quite uh patronizing towards me um
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more so than my white colleagues uh also
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well in
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particular pre previous place I used to
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work I had quite a few run-ins with the
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principal as I was a union rep at the
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college and he would often be quite
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dismissive when I challenged his
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decisions uh or or or um the way the
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institution worked the real racisms that
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I've faced or witnessed in the workplace
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are about being targeted to be pushed
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out of work having a disproportionate
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workload
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um explicitly being told or being
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written about as having a chip on my
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shoulder always wishing to use Trade
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union issues around
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equality this stuff is very overt and
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very damaging and however much the
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day-to-day rudess hurts you the thing
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that will push you out for your job is
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that sustained institutionalized
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campaign it's a bit like a kind of um
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it's a bit like death by a Thousand Cuts
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yeah where one of those cuts in of
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itself could be quite a normal
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experience but when you experience them
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all the
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time uh then those micro kind of
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aggressions then have accumulative
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effect in terms of whether I've ra
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issues around racism at work I mean one
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of the um I know that one issue I've
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I've you know had to bring up quite a
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bit is the fact that um our staff is
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really unrepresentative of our student
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population and and you know I'm saying
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this because of you know having been you
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know in many situations the one of the
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handful of of um of black staff in in
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you know um institutions sometimes where
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where um black students and the majority
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I would say and um you know when I when
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I've raised this sort of issue it's like
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um you you often get these responses
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like oh you know we don't have people
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the right people applying and that sort
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of thing and again it's brought down to
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a quality issue I do feel I I can raise
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uh issues of racism at work um I think
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I'm lucky in in the fact that I've been
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a union rep and I have I'm quite an
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experienced union rep so I can
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depersonalize um many of the race race
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issues because I can use
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um acast guidelines um when talking
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about race and and they're not really
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talking having to talk about my own
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personal um uh situation I can also use
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legislation like the equality uh act and
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and that that depersonalizing it m is is
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sort of a safety net for me something
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that can uh Shield my own personal
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feelings about uh the racism that I
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experienced and the isolation and that
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that that brings me any problems I have
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with
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racism I'm now
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wise to put it in writing so that
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there's an accurate record of
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[Music]
00:16:18
it you have to be open but you should
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also not pretend that it doesn't come
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with any risks but you can limit the
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risks by being part of a union or
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Collective body that can support you
00:16:31
when things end up going wrong so I
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think that's the sort of dilemma that
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comes about when you discuss uh
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challenging racism in your own
00:16:42
workplace there are moments when it can
00:16:45
actually take a revenge on you later we
00:16:48
started by talking directly to the
00:16:52
registar and Senior Management and we
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demanded a few change and with this did
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manage to impact how the race uh agenda
00:17:05
in the University developed one of our
00:17:09
success story with the university that
00:17:13
they appointed Associated vice
00:17:15
presidents for equality and diversity
00:17:18
that have made the agenda heard at the
00:17:21
level of Senior Management in the
00:17:24
meantime in the grassroot we were
00:17:26
developing our Network getting people
00:17:29
believe that we can make a change but
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when it comes to making the decisions
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people don't look like me the people
00:17:36
that do are making decisions usually
00:17:38
don't have any ideas about who I am
00:17:42
besides what they can visibly see and it
00:17:45
doesn't look like them it doesn't fit in
00:17:47
with who their friends are um I think
00:17:50
it's difficult I think institutions are
00:17:52
racist but I think politically and
00:17:56
socially people are programed almost to
00:17:59
be racist and it's about white people
00:18:02
and privilege why would you give it up I
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mean on the whole colleagues have been
00:18:06
kind of much more receptive and
00:18:08
responsive and kind
00:18:10
of uh colleague like I mean there have
00:18:12
been one or two exceptions to that but
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um in the main uh particularly if it's a
00:18:19
fairly kind of diverse group of
00:18:21
colleagues or people coming from quite
00:18:22
different social and political kind of
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um backgrounds then there may be some
00:18:28
sort of certain kind of points of kind
00:18:30
of connection I think with students I
00:18:32
mean again students are so hugely
00:18:34
diverse I mean black students are often
00:18:37
normally both surprised and normally
00:18:41
extremely pleased not only to see a
00:18:43
black academic but somebody who will
00:18:45
kind of advocate on their behalf and
00:18:48
actually kind of challenge some of the
00:18:49
racism which they are students kind of
00:18:52
experience in the system I have found
00:18:54
managers in the University sector quite
00:18:56
different to managers in the local auth
00:18:58
propy sector in general I find them far
00:19:01
more threatened um far less able to kind
00:19:07
of break out of that idea of kind of
00:19:09
liberal Academia and really kind of
00:19:12
engage with the kind of issues I think
00:19:15
the other one is the sense of fear the
00:19:17
sense of fear of
00:19:19
failure uh because you're not allowed to
00:19:21
fail and if if in in case you do fail
00:19:24
then somehow you get this impression
00:19:27
that that is not not just about
00:19:30
um the normal everyday kind of
00:19:32
Developmental kind of uh process but
00:19:35
that somehow is a kind of a
00:19:37
justification as to why you shouldn't be
00:19:39
there in the first place particularly in
00:19:40
Academia as if it was that you were
00:19:42
there by false pretenses and that those
00:19:45
potenti have been revealed in in maybe
00:19:48
getting something wrong so I think
00:19:50
that's where you feel the kind of racism
00:19:52
it's very easy I find in in Trade union
00:19:54
to think that it's only the bread and
00:19:56
butter industrial issues that matter but
00:19:58
it's really important to remember that
00:20:00
um questions around equality are are
00:20:02
Central to this as well it is racist to
00:20:05
go into an organization be expected to
00:20:07
operate as though you're white male and
00:20:09
kind of from a middle class traditional
00:20:11
academic background you know if you come
00:20:14
into an
00:20:15
institution um from a black female
00:20:18
workingclass background that is part and
00:20:21
parcel of who you are racism operates in
00:20:24
the sense of I've experienced it in
00:20:26
terms of denial in terms of an academic
00:20:30
institution that has huge numbers of
00:20:33
black and ethnic minority students but
00:20:36
continues to operate as presumably you
00:20:38
know many institutions as it probably
00:20:40
did in the days when higher education
00:20:43
was for kind of a fairy kind of elite
00:20:45
group the organization would not
00:20:48
necessarily recognize that as racism but
00:20:51
of course as black people we know it's
00:20:53
racism
00:20:55
[Music]
00:21:12
often I think staff in h and Fe believe
00:21:16
and I think believe with some
00:21:18
justification that the moment at which
00:21:20
they name their experience of racism is
00:21:24
the moment at which they're starting to
00:21:26
leave that workplace
00:21:30
because it's very very hard to come back
00:21:33
from the moment of saying in our place
00:21:36
of employment that not only am I having
00:21:38
a bad time but the bad time I'm having
00:21:41
is because of this and
00:21:45
sadly I can think of almost no cases
00:21:48
where I have had an input whether it's
00:21:50
formal or informal where those
00:21:53
individuals did not sooner or later exit
00:21:56
that particular workplace
00:21:58
regardless of any formal process that's
00:22:00
gone on going to all meetings that are
00:22:03
discussing issues on rest to give my
00:22:07
viewpoint but I think that's the thing
00:22:09
that's really missing that in terms of
00:22:12
solidarity we have different interests
00:22:16
at work and we tend to be divided and
00:22:19
split so what I would call solidarity is
00:22:23
black stuff all working together but
00:22:26
when you are down you don't don't see
00:22:28
many of them behind you they've all
00:22:31
disappeared I don't know the reason why
00:22:34
but I always try to make sure that when
00:22:37
they are down I'm always there to show
00:22:40
them that it's not nice to be on your
00:22:44
own maybe we need to find better ways of
00:22:47
uh dealing with our problems
00:22:51
so my view is to maybe work on all black
00:22:56
members to say a problem for one of us
00:23:00
is a problem for all of us and we might
00:23:03
get somewhere uh my experience at the
00:23:06
University of Manchester is that as our
00:23:08
branch executive has become more diverse
00:23:11
we've been more uh Adept and uh better
00:23:14
at challenging racism in the workplace
00:23:17
so I feel that the ucu should review it
00:23:19
standing orders to ensure that uh the
00:23:22
branches are more diverse and therefore
00:23:25
we can then have more a more diverse uh
00:23:27
membership National level and therefore
00:23:30
also uh be able to challenge the
00:23:32
institutions at the various branches
00:23:33
because the more diverse the branch
00:23:35
executives are the better they will be a
00:23:37
challenging uh racis if people are
00:23:39
actually involved in the branch then
00:23:40
they'll be more aware of of what those
00:23:42
issues are and be better place to take
00:23:43
it forward and I think unfortunately
00:23:45
there's been a history within trade
00:23:46
unionism about you know being dominated
00:23:48
by kind of you know older white men um
00:23:51
which which unfortunately I do have to
00:23:53
say it's still the case today but I
00:23:54
think that if we work towards um having
00:23:56
better representation I think we can
00:23:57
challenge that if you talk to other
00:23:59
black colleagues I find I find that's
00:24:01
often helpful just on an informal level
00:24:03
so that you feel you are not alone I
00:24:05
think that's one thing but as well I I
00:24:07
would say that um in terms of the Union
00:24:10
I would say again um you know
00:24:11
encouraging more black members of staff
00:24:13
to become actively involved in the union
00:24:15
I think that's an important strategy so
00:24:17
it's not a question of for example a um
00:24:20
um you know a very mixed kind of
00:24:21
membership being being led by a
00:24:23
predominantly white branch committee for
00:24:24
example um but as well here in the West
00:24:26
Midlands region we're trying to set up
00:24:28
black members Network and and so we're
00:24:30
hoping that will um you know encourage
00:24:32
Dialogue on the regional level and and
00:24:34
you know support and and you know
00:24:35
sharing information experience and that
00:24:37
sort of thing because of the principles
00:24:39
because of the the aims the goals um you
00:24:42
know the manifesto that that unions have
00:24:45
this is a place where there are tools
00:24:48
that we can use to try and address that
00:24:50
institutional racism and also to make
00:24:53
sure that the union does what it needs
00:24:55
to do in order to promote racial harmm
00:24:58
and and and and those other good things
00:25:00
that can come from looking at um
00:25:02
equality in a in a positive way I will
00:25:05
always be a trade unionist so I'll
00:25:07
always be part of that work I hope and
00:25:10
hopefully be part of making sure that
00:25:11
the unions and Community merge um
00:25:14
because I think there's a lot of power a
00:25:16
lot of influence that could happen from
00:25:18
that merging I think in terms of
00:25:21
um guing your trade Union branch to
00:25:25
assist you in challenging racism at work
00:25:28
there's a lot of variation between
00:25:30
branches and I've been caught out by
00:25:32
that because I've worked in different
00:25:33
places but I have sometimes been in the
00:25:36
happy situation where I have
00:25:38
colleagues among the trade Union branch
00:25:41
who are very committed to addressing
00:25:43
issues of equality and challenging
00:25:45
racism at work and in those instances
00:25:48
there've been some quite productive
00:25:51
outcomes I've also seen and experienced
00:25:55
times when trying to raise is issues of
00:25:59
racism makes it almost impossible for
00:26:01
you to um do your other Trade union work
00:26:05
because some of the racism sadly comes
00:26:07
from Trade union colleagues and that
00:26:09
makes life very very difficult all of us
00:26:12
who work in those very white and
00:26:15
sometimes very hostile workplaces need
00:26:17
to think about how we support each other
00:26:20
so I try and say more and more to people
00:26:24
look there's not many of us for God's
00:26:27
sake don't get inou fight with the only
00:26:29
other black person you can see which can
00:26:31
happen so one of the things we all need
00:26:33
to remember is one of my favorite
00:26:37
slogans from the Palestinian struggle is
00:26:40
existence is resistance that if you
00:26:43
can't sustain yourself we're not going
00:26:45
to build a bigger movement so part of
00:26:47
what we need to do is find ways of just
00:26:50
boying each other up enough that we get
00:26:52
through it and then of course there are
00:26:55
bigger plans to be made and bigger
00:26:56
demons to be slain
00:26:58
[Music]
00:27:10
I think it's really important that you
00:27:11
know we do need to build alliances with
00:27:13
white colleagues and there are many
00:27:14
white colleagues have stood stood by me
00:27:16
and and and building that level of trust
00:27:18
is really important because once you've
00:27:20
established that trust then you can
00:27:22
begin to um Express I think your deeper
00:27:26
kind of anxieties and experiences you
00:27:28
know if you're part of this Society this
00:27:30
Society
00:27:32
is diversity is its
00:27:35
reality and therefore if you work in
00:27:37
Academia you're working in that reality
00:27:41
I'm only in a situation where I can
00:27:45
challenge kind of racism because
00:27:48
Generations walked before me and on
00:27:50
Whose shoulders I stand and who
00:27:52
challenged far more than I will ever be
00:27:54
called upon to challenge and kind of
00:27:57
gave their lives freedoms I don't really
00:27:59
see it as challenging I just see it as
00:28:01
kind of the way
00:28:04
that the way that you have to be if you
00:28:07
believe in human and social and racial
00:28:10
Justice any colleague who feels that
00:28:12
they might be vulnerable to um
00:28:15
managerialism if you want yeah and and
00:28:17
and kind of disciplinary mechanisms as I
00:28:19
always say that if you ever receive any
00:28:22
accolades from anywhere from students
00:28:25
from managers are really important and
00:28:27
from outside bodies
00:28:28
try to record those try to keep a copy
00:28:31
of those it might be an email it might
00:28:33
be a letter anything and just create
00:28:35
your F and I you know can of somewh
00:28:37
amusingly say that I've been preparing
00:28:39
for my industrial Tribunal for the last
00:28:41
30 years I think there is kind of some
00:28:44
unconscious bias um but I'm I'm not
00:28:49
perhaps prepared to be kind to give that
00:28:52
kind of get out of gel card I think some
00:28:54
of it if it is unconscious then that
00:28:58
really is of significant concern
00:29:02
because what else do we have to do and
00:29:06
say and write and talk about and present
00:29:11
on in order for supposedly intelligent
00:29:14
people who kind of who are educating the
00:29:18
next generation of young people and not
00:29:21
so young people and who are spearhead in
00:29:23
supposedly groundbreaking research to to
00:29:27
get any degree of Consciousness you know
00:29:29
I mean I became conscious of racism when
00:29:32
I was about
00:29:33
four right and I hadn't read a book on
00:29:36
racism I hadn't been to a lecture on
00:29:38
racism you know hadn't been to a seminar
00:29:40
on kind of racism um but I knew at the
00:29:45
age of four what racism was institutions
00:29:48
have made managed to make some change
00:29:50
that have benefited white middle class
00:29:52
women even if their bias around gender
00:29:54
was unconscious they have consciously
00:29:57
taken step steps and taken actions I
00:30:00
mean there hasn't been much used to kind
00:30:01
of black and minority women of course
00:30:03
but uh or probably workingclass women
00:30:05
but they have done things consciously to
00:30:08
improve the profile so a little bit of
00:30:11
Consciousness might be you know might be
00:30:14
very welcome as someone who's both black
00:30:16
and a
00:30:17
woman I might get two two shots
00:30:22
[Music]
00:30:47
if you feel like you can't have every
00:30:49
battle and you you pick the important
00:30:51
ones I've never actually had a racist
00:30:54
grievance upheld but what I often find
00:30:58
is that challenging the behavior is
00:31:00
often enough just to um get the
00:31:03
institution or get the manager or
00:31:05
whatever the issue is to back off and um
00:31:09
often um the situation has improved for
00:31:12
the member so although I think
00:31:15
institution are incredibly reluctant to
00:31:18
um admit any uh
00:31:21
discrimination um if they are challenged
00:31:24
they will often uh change their
00:31:26
practices
00:31:34
[Music]
