DOCTOR REVEALS How She Cured Her Autoimmune DISEASE! | Cynthia Li & Mark Hyman
Summary
TLDRDr. Mark Hyman's podcast features Dr. Cynthia Lee discussing her transition from conventional medicine to integrative and functional medicine following her own chronic illness experiences. She shares her story of debilitating health conditions that traditional medicine failed to diagnose or treat effectively, leading her to explore alternative approaches. Her journey involves battling thyroid issues and chronic fatigue, intensified during a trip to Beijing. Gradually, through diet changes, understanding environmental and emotional contributors to her illness, and developing intuition, she found a path to healing. Dr. Lee emphasizes viewing the body as a holistic system, interconnected across various conditions, contrasting sharply with her formal medical training that emphasized compartmentalized care. Her story is captured in her book, "Brave New Medicine," which aims to offer hope to others by illustrating how a holistic, systems-thinking approach can lead to recovery from chronic conditions.
Takeaways
- 🩺 Shift from conventional to functional medicine helped Dr. Lee heal.
- 🌱 Holistic systems-thinking in medicine is effective for chronic disease.
- 🧠 Developing intuition was key in Dr. Lee's health recovery process.
- 🥗 Dietary changes played a significant role in healing.
- 🚫 Removal of gluten improved her thyroid and gut health.
- 🌍 Environmental factors like pollution were impactful on health.
- 🏠 Detoxifying environment and home was part of healing strategy.
- 🤝 Building community and accepting help fosters recovery.
- 🛌 Emphasizing sleep and circadian rhythms supported better health.
- 📚 Learning and relearning health practices were crucial for her.
- 🔍 Asking new questions sparked a different healing journey.
- 📘 Her book, "]Brave New Medicine[,]" outlines her healing path.
Timeline
- 00:00:00 - 00:05:00
Dr. Mark Hyman discusses chronic illness and the resulting feelings of hopelessness and helplessness, often compounded by bouncing from doctor to doctor without relief, and introduces Dr. Cynthia Li who has a personal and professional journey through mysterious chronic diseases.
- 00:05:00 - 00:10:00
Dr. Cynthia Li, a traditionally trained physician, shifted her perspective on medicine after dealing with chronic diseases that traditional medicine couldn't solve. Her journey from a successful career to being bedridden sparked a journey into integrative and functional medicine.
- 00:10:00 - 00:15:00
Dr. Li recalls her earlier career and personal life before the onset of mysterious symptoms post-childbirth, initially dismissed by normal test results, challenging her understanding of illnesses.
- 00:15:00 - 00:20:00
Her declining health coincided with a visit to Beijing where she experienced a severe health episode leading to hospitalization. Her symptoms, which persisted after returning home, sparked a re-evaluation of her understanding of chronic illness.
- 00:20:00 - 00:25:00
Attempting to conform to traditional medicine while her condition worsened, Dr. Li started exploring functional medicine. Her experiences paralleled Dr. Hyman’s, concluding that it wasn't in her head but a deeper physiological issue.
- 00:25:00 - 00:30:00
Dr. Li explores functional medicine principles after minimal success with traditional medical approaches. Realizing her symptoms' complexity, she embraces a more holistic view of health and disease.
- 00:30:00 - 00:35:00
Dr. Li discusses her path to healing through aligning her life with natural rhythms, personalized nutrition, and other foundational health practices, influenced by integrative and functional medicine.
- 00:35:00 - 00:40:00
Functional medicine provided a framework for understanding her health issues, with each lifestyle and dietary change leading to incremental health improvements, which were previously unavailable in traditional medicine.
- 00:40:00 - 00:45:00
Dr. Li shares how traditional Chinese medicine and studies on ancestral diets informed her recovery. Recognizing underlying systemic connections was key, emphasizing a shift in medical paradigms.
- 00:45:00 - 00:50:00
Her experience with personal health crises led to an openness to less conventional practices, such as developing her intuition, which revealed deeper physical and emotional insights contributing to her healing.
- 00:50:00 - 00:55:00
Finding a way through intuition and functional medicine enabled Dr. Li to better navigate complex health decisions, emphasizing patient empowerment in treatment choices.
- 00:55:00 - 01:00:00
She emphasizes the impact of detoxification and gut healing on her recovery, noting substantial improvements in health markers and symptoms.
- 01:00:00 - 01:05:00
Dr. Li recounts further personal health victories, crediting functional medicine’s holistic approach for her ability to eventually discontinue medications, underlining its role in long-term health restoration.
- 01:05:00 - 01:10:00
She critiques traditional medical education’s oversight on wellness and chronic disease management, advocating for a broader understanding of the body’s interconnected systems.
- 01:10:00 - 01:15:06
Dr. Li outlines her recovery steps in her book, presenting practical advice for health and well-being, aiming to empower others to reclaim their health using her experiential insights.
Mind Map
Video Q&A
Who is Dr. Cynthia Lee?
Dr. Cynthia Lee is a physician who has reimagined medicine for herself and others, focusing on integrative and functional approaches.
What chronic illnesses did Dr. Cynthia Lee face?
She faced a series of mysterious chronic diseases including thyroid issues, fibromyalgia-like symptoms, and Lyme disease.
How did Dr. Cynthia Lee's experience in China impact her health?
A family trip to China led to a dramatic health downturn, triggering symptoms such as weakness, vertigo, and digestive issues.
What is functional medicine?
Functional medicine looks at the body as a system and addresses root causes of diseases rather than just symptoms.
How did Dr. Lee use intuition in her healing journey?
Dr. Lee learned to develop and trust her intuition for guidance in navigating her health decisions.
Why did Dr. Lee write 'Brave New Medicine'?
She wanted to share her journey and inspire others who suffer from chronic illnesses to find hope and explore alternative healing paths.
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- 00:00:00one of the themes also that
- 00:00:02um that comes up over and over again
- 00:00:04with chronic illness and i know for
- 00:00:06myself too is
- 00:00:07you know reaching that point of
- 00:00:09hopelessness or helplessness and
- 00:00:11there becomes a learned helplessness on
- 00:00:13top of that when you get punted from
- 00:00:15doctor to doctor to doctor so are we
- 00:00:18perpetuating illness as well
- 00:00:20[Music]
- 00:00:21[Applause]
- 00:00:24welcome to the doctor's pharmacy this is
- 00:00:25dr mark hyman and that's pharmacy with
- 00:00:27an ffar macy a place for conversations
- 00:00:30that matter and if you've been ill if
- 00:00:31you know someone who's been ill if
- 00:00:33you've had struggles with chronic
- 00:00:34disease like i have
- 00:00:37and like our guest has then this show is
- 00:00:39going to help you figure out a different
- 00:00:41way of thinking about it and give you
- 00:00:43hope because a lot of times when we get
- 00:00:46sick we feel hopeless and that's not
- 00:00:49good because we actually have ways to
- 00:00:51think about disease quite differently
- 00:00:52and our guest today is going to share
- 00:00:54as a physician
- 00:00:56how she's reimagined medicine for
- 00:00:58herself
- 00:00:59as well as used a new medicine to help
- 00:01:02heal her chronic diseases our guest is
- 00:01:04dr cynthia lee she received her medical
- 00:01:06degree from the university of texas
- 00:01:07southwestern medical center in dallas
- 00:01:09she's practicing internist in many
- 00:01:12settings she's been at kaiser permanente
- 00:01:14san francisco general hospital st athens
- 00:01:16medical clinic she's served the homeless
- 00:01:18she's worked in in very remote rural
- 00:01:20areas in china helping with hiv patients
- 00:01:22she's worked with partners in health and
- 00:01:23all kinds of amazing community based
- 00:01:26ways of healing people her personal
- 00:01:27health challenges have really led her to
- 00:01:29a very different view of medicine that
- 00:01:32we learned in medical school integrative
- 00:01:34and functional medicine and she now has
- 00:01:35a private practice in berkeley she's on
- 00:01:37the faculty of the healer's art program
- 00:01:39at the university of california san
- 00:01:41francisco school of medicine and she's
- 00:01:43written a remarkable new book called
- 00:01:45brave new medicine it's her first book
- 00:01:48but it's an important book as you'll see
- 00:01:50why as we have this conversation so
- 00:01:51welcome dr cynthia lee thank you so much
- 00:01:54for having me here
- 00:01:55so we were just chatting before the show
- 00:01:57and it was kind of remarkable
- 00:02:00hearing your story because it seems in a
- 00:02:03lot of ways we've gone down the same
- 00:02:05path which is trained in traditional
- 00:02:07medicine
- 00:02:09both
- 00:02:10suffered from
- 00:02:12a series of different chronic diseases
- 00:02:14which were mysterious and strange that
- 00:02:17traditional medicine
- 00:02:18can't help with
- 00:02:20and we both were in china and got sick
- 00:02:23we both had gi issues got sick we both
- 00:02:26you know had mold in our houses and got
- 00:02:27sick we both had lyme disease and got
- 00:02:29sick so it's kind of fascinating
- 00:02:31and and uh i i just sort of
- 00:02:34want to unpack your story because you
- 00:02:36knew you had everything you had a great
- 00:02:37career in medicine you have a fantastic
- 00:02:39marriage beautiful kids
- 00:02:41and then
- 00:02:43like happens to many people
- 00:02:45one day you're fine
- 00:02:46and the next day you're not and
- 00:02:48everything falls apart and you had this
- 00:02:50mysterious symptoms that traditional
- 00:02:52medicine
- 00:02:53couldn't solve your tests came back
- 00:02:55quote normal
- 00:02:57but you weren't feeling normal your
- 00:02:59doctors were confused you were lost
- 00:03:02you were in bed you couldn't get out of
- 00:03:03bed with young kids and that's really
- 00:03:06the beginning
- 00:03:08of the change in your career that led to
- 00:03:11discovering a new way to heal yourself
- 00:03:13so can you take us through that journey
- 00:03:15and like
- 00:03:16where did you come from and how did you
- 00:03:17get here oh my god yeah well first of
- 00:03:20all um
- 00:03:21this is not a journey i would wish on
- 00:03:22anybody so i mean when we were comparing
- 00:03:25our bearing
- 00:03:27my god you know like i wouldn't yeah
- 00:03:30would not wish this on anyone i mean i
- 00:03:31know that millions right millions of
- 00:03:33americans suffer from these kinds of
- 00:03:36mystery conditions that are very
- 00:03:37debilitating so this is not um not a
- 00:03:40spurious
- 00:03:41experience by any means although
- 00:03:43although many doctors go well we don't
- 00:03:45we can't figure it out your tests are
- 00:03:46normal
- 00:03:48there must must be on your head right
- 00:03:50exactly exactly and you know and i went
- 00:03:52through that myself i
- 00:03:55my own health challenges did not fit my
- 00:03:58own paradigm so for a long time i was
- 00:04:00stuck in my head like i just need to get
- 00:04:02past i need to get past it so
- 00:04:05to um
- 00:04:06yeah just to kind of go backwards a
- 00:04:08little bit um about 15 years ago i was a
- 00:04:11few years out of residency so i was at
- 00:04:13this place in my professional life where
- 00:04:15i felt
- 00:04:16a sense of mastery right i i just i knew
- 00:04:19the studies pat i knew the protocols pat
- 00:04:22um
- 00:04:23you know i i was running ers and just
- 00:04:25feeling like
- 00:04:26okay you're a master of your christmas
- 00:04:28yes yes and i felt really proud of where
- 00:04:31i had come
- 00:04:32to in my life and
- 00:04:35um i had married the love of my life
- 00:04:39um i did something really radical i had
- 00:04:42always been sort of the good girl the
- 00:04:43conventional girl which is funny why you
- 00:04:46know i ended up taking this very
- 00:04:47unconventional path as far as this this
- 00:04:50culture is concerned um i was yeah i had
- 00:04:52a very conventional upbringing and um
- 00:04:56my husband and i shortly after we got
- 00:04:58married i did something radical and we i
- 00:05:00quit my job and we traveled the world
- 00:05:02for six months
- 00:05:04uh no itinerary you know just a backpack
- 00:05:06with you know a few
- 00:05:08necessaries in them and
- 00:05:10i felt so free and so
- 00:05:13um
- 00:05:15so alive
- 00:05:17and after we returned
- 00:05:22i started a job at the county hospital
- 00:05:25where i was working with underserved
- 00:05:27patients and really found my calling
- 00:05:30so it was during this time that i
- 00:05:33got pregnant and again you know the
- 00:05:36pregnancy was easy um nine months later
- 00:05:39we had this miracle of a baby we were
- 00:05:41thrilled but it was three months after
- 00:05:43that that i started feeling off
- 00:05:46and you know started feeling really
- 00:05:48tired my hair was falling out i was
- 00:05:51losing weight i mean like super rapidly
- 00:05:54and again it's just one of those things
- 00:05:56that i think as um
- 00:05:58as not wanting to complain as our
- 00:06:00culture tends to do is normalize
- 00:06:03you know
- 00:06:04unwellness
- 00:06:05to where you sort of tolerate it and so
- 00:06:08i thought it was all postpartum suck it
- 00:06:09up and push through exactly suck it up
- 00:06:12and you know and a lot of times um
- 00:06:14things resolve and you know life goes on
- 00:06:17which i had learned in residency right
- 00:06:21best healer is time everything goes away
- 00:06:22it's just right what doesn't kill you
- 00:06:24makes you stronger
- 00:06:25right i didn't realize at the time that
- 00:06:27only works for acute things not chronic
- 00:06:30so i was in very much in that mentality
- 00:06:33of invincibility both because i was
- 00:06:35young and both and then the other reason
- 00:06:38because
- 00:06:39i was a doctor there was this strange
- 00:06:41sense that because i understood chronic
- 00:06:44diseases i mean i was an internist after
- 00:06:46all an expert in chronic diseases
- 00:06:48that i was somehow immune to it
- 00:06:50you know my patients were over there and
- 00:06:52i was over here yeah
- 00:06:53since you knew all the diseases you
- 00:06:55couldn't get them exactly exactly
- 00:06:58and it took me a while to even recognize
- 00:07:01the signs and i remember very clearly
- 00:07:03that i was
- 00:07:05you know i'd been kind of slogging
- 00:07:06through my day-to-day life you know with
- 00:07:09this new baby and an active husband and
- 00:07:11my job
- 00:07:13and i was
- 00:07:14seeing a patient and she was a single
- 00:07:17mom had like three kids was
- 00:07:20uh working two jobs she was exhausted
- 00:07:23and she came to me for fatigue
- 00:07:25and i was i was looking at her and i was
- 00:07:27just going through the checklist you
- 00:07:29know all the review systems and i said
- 00:07:31oh my god your textbook case of
- 00:07:33hyperthyroidism i'm going to run these
- 00:07:35tests
- 00:07:37and it dawned on me that oh my god her
- 00:07:39palpitations her insomnia her fatigue
- 00:07:41you know her weight loss her hair loss
- 00:07:44and i was like oh my god i am a textbook
- 00:07:46case too so that was a that was a really
- 00:07:47big eye-opener for me yeah you saw
- 00:07:50yourself in her yes
- 00:07:52and and also that
- 00:07:54i i had a chronic disease most likely
- 00:07:58because thyroid diseases are usually
- 00:08:00chronic
- 00:08:01so that was the beginning and i had
- 00:08:04which by the way
- 00:08:06low thyroid and thyroid problems in
- 00:08:07women affects one in five women and half
- 00:08:10of them are
- 00:08:10undiagnosed yes and many of us who are
- 00:08:13diagnosed aren't properly treated
- 00:08:16absolutely absolutely and i think it
- 00:08:18goes to
- 00:08:19the fact that we dismiss
- 00:08:21symptoms that are i mean they are
- 00:08:24seemingly vague right fatigue i mean
- 00:08:26i'm tired i'm a little depressed my
- 00:08:28function sex my skin's a little dry my
- 00:08:30hair's thinning right right exactly
- 00:08:34so constipated whatever it's like normal
- 00:08:37absolutely and oh so for me though my
- 00:08:39initial presentation was hyperthyroid
- 00:08:41and then i felt hypo so i was kind of on
- 00:08:43this thyroid roller coaster
- 00:08:45and what i had was hashimoto's an
- 00:08:47autoimmune
- 00:08:49thyroid condition
- 00:08:51and when it happens in the postpartum
- 00:08:53period
- 00:08:54most of those cases resolve in about a
- 00:08:56year and so i followed actually that
- 00:08:58textbook trajectory
- 00:09:00and about a year after i was diagnosed i
- 00:09:03wasn't feeling well but i saw my
- 00:09:06endocrinologist who was a top-notch
- 00:09:07specialist and
- 00:09:09he said yeah you know i think it's time
- 00:09:11for you to try tapering off your
- 00:09:13levothyroxine
- 00:09:14and i did and my numbers stayed normal
- 00:09:18and
- 00:09:19i
- 00:09:20was by his book and by my book i was
- 00:09:22cured
- 00:09:23but you still felt like crap i still
- 00:09:25felt exactly the same
- 00:09:28so that
- 00:09:29it goes to show you know where i was in
- 00:09:32my mindset was you know what the
- 00:09:34paradigm that we're trained in
- 00:09:37superseded my own experience yeah and
- 00:09:40what we're trained in is that
- 00:09:44everything hinges on the diagnosis yeah
- 00:09:46if you don't have a diagnosis
- 00:09:48right and the diagnosis is a set of
- 00:09:50criteria or it's a lab test or it's a
- 00:09:53pathology report it's something very
- 00:09:55very concrete
- 00:09:58so
- 00:09:59uh i'm living my life and i was still
- 00:10:01living a full life so i was also basing
- 00:10:03health on functionality yeah you were
- 00:10:06managing
- 00:10:07yes yes i was managing and i was
- 00:10:09managing quite well
- 00:10:11so then um
- 00:10:13a couple of years later my husband
- 00:10:16are then toddler and i
- 00:10:19take a trip to beijing
- 00:10:21and my parents and my sister were living
- 00:10:23there at the time
- 00:10:25so i had taken these trips annually and
- 00:10:28um we
- 00:10:29went and i had a very dramatic
- 00:10:32experience there before before you go on
- 00:10:33i want to sort of clarify for people for
- 00:10:35those who haven't been to beijing
- 00:10:38it's been cleaned up a little bit but
- 00:10:40on a sunny day
- 00:10:42you can't see a building across the
- 00:10:44street because the air is so thick
- 00:10:47with pollution
- 00:10:48and most of it is from coal rock hole
- 00:10:51that they burn and from some of the
- 00:10:53inversions that come from the weather
- 00:10:55patterns from the gobi desert and
- 00:10:57it's so bad that
- 00:10:59many people in beijing walk around with
- 00:11:01masks literally yes face masks you might
- 00:11:04have seen those pictures so yes yes
- 00:11:05we're not talking about just a little
- 00:11:07pollution we're talking about air so
- 00:11:09thick that you can basically cut it with
- 00:11:10a knife on a sunny day and can't see the
- 00:11:12sun yes yeah i mean my sister
- 00:11:15um
- 00:11:16taught elementary school when she was
- 00:11:18there and they every day they would they
- 00:11:20would get these you know these color
- 00:11:23um
- 00:11:24signals about whether or not they could
- 00:11:27go out and there were many days where
- 00:11:29they couldn't even go out at all stay
- 00:11:31indoors with high
- 00:11:32heavy duty air purifiers going on
- 00:11:36um so
- 00:11:37yes it was
- 00:11:39um cheers
- 00:11:43um a nice family trip nice family trip
- 00:11:46and you know i will say i was we were uh
- 00:11:49we took a hike on um the wild wall so
- 00:11:52right the the un
- 00:11:55restored yes the beautiful sort of
- 00:11:57rustic but crumbling
- 00:11:59wall of the great wall
- 00:12:01and it was um
- 00:12:04it was a really beautiful
- 00:12:06hike
- 00:12:07and
- 00:12:08i stood at this lookout tower
- 00:12:10and i said to my husband i said i feel
- 00:12:12like myself again
- 00:12:14so i was feeling like i'm coming back
- 00:12:16right my stamina was back
- 00:12:18um the aches and the pains and just that
- 00:12:20low-grade fatigue was gone
- 00:12:24um so i felt uh an ounce of
- 00:12:27of real hope there
- 00:12:30and
- 00:12:31then we went to a dumpling house to
- 00:12:34celebrate
- 00:12:37and um
- 00:12:39you know you had asked me um before this
- 00:12:41like you know what might have triggered
- 00:12:43this turning point i don't i was either
- 00:12:45doubling disease i don't know but i was
- 00:12:47eating a ton of things
- 00:12:49um some of which were
- 00:12:51like tons of different kinds of fungus
- 00:12:54right mushrooms like things that are you
- 00:12:56know can be immunologically
- 00:12:58triggering as well so i have no idea if
- 00:13:01that honey had anything to do with it if
- 00:13:02it was just the foreign food proteins
- 00:13:05but i was
- 00:13:07having the feast of my life when i
- 00:13:09suddenly felt like i was going to pass
- 00:13:11out
- 00:13:12you know and i was going through all the
- 00:13:14you know differential diagnoses in my in
- 00:13:16my head
- 00:13:17and heat stroke dehydration i was
- 00:13:20drinking water but uh suddenly i mean
- 00:13:23before i know it i you know my life
- 00:13:25flashes before me and i i think i'm
- 00:13:28gonna die and then i pass out
- 00:13:30so
- 00:13:31i come to in a
- 00:13:34an emergency room in downtown beijing
- 00:13:37and
- 00:13:38when i came to
- 00:13:40i just came to a body that really wasn't
- 00:13:42my own i didn't recognize myself
- 00:13:44i could barely move my muscles
- 00:13:47the entire room was spinning around as
- 00:13:49if i was on a boat that was really
- 00:13:51really um
- 00:13:53being tossed around in the high seas yes
- 00:13:56and that um
- 00:13:59was something that was completely
- 00:14:00outside of my own box as a doctor
- 00:14:04i was calling the shots in the er
- 00:14:06because the doctor overseeing me was a
- 00:14:08resident
- 00:14:09yeah and i've had that experience being
- 00:14:11in a a hospital in thailand with severe
- 00:14:14gastroenteritis telling him what to do
- 00:14:17yes i mean
- 00:14:18it is
- 00:14:19it is it's challenging being sick but
- 00:14:21it's challenging being a doctor who's
- 00:14:22sick because people are still looking to
- 00:14:25you yeah to number one stay calm and
- 00:14:27number two figure out what's going on
- 00:14:30and i was using my really um you know
- 00:14:32basic mandarin too trying to
- 00:14:35communicate
- 00:14:37um i also realized that i had brain fog
- 00:14:39i didn't know it at the time i just i
- 00:14:40couldn't remember things um i was
- 00:14:43looking at my own ekg and which was
- 00:14:45normal but i couldn't quite read it you
- 00:14:48had a broken brain i had read yeah
- 00:14:50thousands of those right yeah
- 00:14:53so um
- 00:14:54[Music]
- 00:14:55i was uh you know kind of in a state of
- 00:14:57shock um but really just trying to push
- 00:15:00through the misery of it
- 00:15:02and in the smattering of tests um they
- 00:15:05did stabilize my blood pressure which
- 00:15:07was low i've got iv saline and
- 00:15:11um
- 00:15:13but all the tests turned out normal as
- 00:15:15they so often do in these streams
- 00:15:18right dr lee and the one that did not
- 00:15:20turn out normal was one that i really
- 00:15:22ordered as a precautionary test that we
- 00:15:24do for all young women it was a
- 00:15:27pregnancy test and that came back
- 00:15:29positive
- 00:15:30so
- 00:15:31that was again a huge shock and my
- 00:15:34husband and i were really trying to wrap
- 00:15:36our heads around the fact that i like i
- 00:15:38felt like i was gonna die
- 00:15:40but then oh my god wait a minute like
- 00:15:42i'm pregnant yeah so and i'm miserable
- 00:15:46um
- 00:15:47so at the time i did not realize that
- 00:15:48this was going to be a
- 00:15:50decade-long journey and you mentioned
- 00:15:52that you had a gi problem then right yes
- 00:15:54well that didn't manifest until the very
- 00:15:56next day the next day um i started
- 00:15:59having nausea vomiting and diarrhea
- 00:16:02and
- 00:16:04people said well it's probably the
- 00:16:06pregnancy and you whatever you got this
- 00:16:09dehydration
- 00:16:10um you just overdid it but then my
- 00:16:12husband and my daughter got it too
- 00:16:15so i realized okay you know what there's
- 00:16:17a gastroenteritis going on all of this
- 00:16:19was in hindsight though you know i
- 00:16:20wasn't you went from like literally the
- 00:16:22top of the mountain on the great wall
- 00:16:24feeling the best you felt in years to
- 00:16:26like the worst you could possibly feel
- 00:16:28yes yes in a matter of days yes and we
- 00:16:30were we were scheduled to get on our
- 00:16:33plane trip home
- 00:16:35like three days later after the er visit
- 00:16:37and um i didn't it was some miracle that
- 00:16:40i made it but i had my first full-blown
- 00:16:43panic attack on as we boarded the plane
- 00:16:46because i was so weak and i was i barely
- 00:16:49made it on i was in a wheelchair
- 00:16:52and i was thinking 13 hours 13 hours
- 00:16:54like what if something happens you know
- 00:16:56i can't do this
- 00:16:58um but but i made it
- 00:16:59um i made it back home
- 00:17:02and i remember calling my medical
- 00:17:04director
- 00:17:06and saying
- 00:17:08um i got a gastroenteritis
- 00:17:10and
- 00:17:11i am in the early throes of pregnancy
- 00:17:15uh
- 00:17:16i'm gonna need an extra week to recover
- 00:17:19but i'll be back yeah or so you thought
- 00:17:22so i thought i never did i never
- 00:17:23returned
- 00:17:25so that was really the beginning of
- 00:17:27the rest of my life
- 00:17:29and um
- 00:17:30it took me being
- 00:17:33housebound
- 00:17:34for two years
- 00:17:37um
- 00:17:38to break out of
- 00:17:39that that paradigm that i knew
- 00:17:42so you were still looking at traditional
- 00:17:44medicine to solve the problem yeah they
- 00:17:45weren't connected with the answers and
- 00:17:47we went to see everybody yes i went to
- 00:17:49see specialist after specialist and
- 00:17:51again another sort of like you're
- 00:17:53depressed take prozac right yes well i
- 00:17:56mean even things like i was afraid to
- 00:17:58say i was depressed because i was like i
- 00:17:59don't want to kill myself i'm just
- 00:18:02miserable you know like i'm miserable
- 00:18:04i'm not depressed yes yes
- 00:18:08but i knew from the other side
- 00:18:10what
- 00:18:11doctors did with patients like me so i
- 00:18:13had a lot of symptoms that i kept to
- 00:18:15myself
- 00:18:17what they did meaning
- 00:18:18meaning yeah antidepressants or
- 00:18:20potential you know a major psychiatric
- 00:18:22evaluation or
- 00:18:24um
- 00:18:25getting stigmatized as a difficult
- 00:18:27patient
- 00:18:28yeah we have a very uh you know in the
- 00:18:30medical world we have a very pejorative
- 00:18:32way of talking about these patients we
- 00:18:34we use a fancy medical word we say it's
- 00:18:36super tentorial which means it's a
- 00:18:39in your brain it's in your head and it's
- 00:18:42very nasty and not true and i think your
- 00:18:46experience is very important because i
- 00:18:47think most of us who suffer aren't
- 00:18:50doctors and so we don't have that
- 00:18:52insight but
- 00:18:54when you actually are a physician and
- 00:18:56you get that uh you know i had someone
- 00:18:59say to me the other day
- 00:19:00oh you know i don't believe all this
- 00:19:02fatigue stuff when i want energy i just
- 00:19:04jump up and down and run up the stairs i
- 00:19:05get energy i'm like no you don't get it
- 00:19:07like
- 00:19:08when you get
- 00:19:10your tank emptied and you don't know how
- 00:19:13to refill it it's real it's not in your
- 00:19:15head it's not
- 00:19:17psychiatric
- 00:19:18it's it's your biology and i had exactly
- 00:19:22the same experience so i i get it and
- 00:19:24it's sort of what led me to be
- 00:19:26a functional medicine physician and to
- 00:19:28so be passionate about telling the world
- 00:19:30which i think also why you write your
- 00:19:31book so to share with the world look
- 00:19:33look like i'm a physician i know the
- 00:19:35science but
- 00:19:37i hit a dead end when it comes to the
- 00:19:38paradigm that we were trained in and i
- 00:19:40needed to find a different way so
- 00:19:42so tell us about how can i ask you were
- 00:19:44you as hard-headed as i was i mean did
- 00:19:46it take you
- 00:19:47oh well first of all too for me i think
- 00:19:49partly it took so long was because i was
- 00:19:51pregnant
- 00:19:52and all the specialists told me that
- 00:19:54this is a difficult pregnancy and part
- 00:19:56of me wanted to believe it or that a lot
- 00:19:58of it would resolve
- 00:19:59and amazingly i had this baby who's
- 00:20:02she's healthy and she's the strongest
- 00:20:04one actually in the whole family
- 00:20:06so um there was that piece but i was i'm
- 00:20:09just curious did it take you as long as
- 00:20:11it took me to yeah i realized there was
- 00:20:13another pass
- 00:20:15no i i well it was interesting i mean i
- 00:20:18literally went down hard i mean i i was
- 00:20:21the same story i lived in china i was
- 00:20:23exposed to mercury
- 00:20:25i came back from china
- 00:20:26and i was up on a lake in maine
- 00:20:29and i got some kind of bug some kind of
- 00:20:31stomach bug
- 00:20:33and i never had anything like it i
- 00:20:35thought it would get better and it
- 00:20:37didn't so the mercury was sort of like
- 00:20:40the
- 00:20:41sort of underlying
- 00:20:43problem yes and then the straw that
- 00:20:45broke the camel's back was getting an
- 00:20:47acute stomach issue which caused a leaky
- 00:20:49gut and this massive inflammation
- 00:20:52and my whole system collapsed you know i
- 00:20:54not only did i didn't have the stomach
- 00:20:56issues and diarrhea and pain and
- 00:20:58bloating
- 00:21:00i also had immune issues my
- 00:21:02rashes all over my tongue would swell up
- 00:21:04when i eat certain foods i get rashes
- 00:21:05around my eyes
- 00:21:07i have all sorts of abnormal blood tests
- 00:21:09my little white count positive ana which
- 00:21:11is like autoimmunity i had
- 00:21:14a little bit of liver function tests i
- 00:21:16had severe cognitive problems i couldn't
- 00:21:18focus i couldn't remember anything i
- 00:21:21couldn't really barely work i had
- 00:21:24trouble sleeping i mean just my whole
- 00:21:26system was down and was called chronic
- 00:21:27fatigue syndrome which you know for a
- 00:21:29long time we thought was psychological
- 00:21:32and
- 00:21:34and now there's real good data that
- 00:21:36there are
- 00:21:37a lot of biological markers of what's
- 00:21:39going on in chronic fatigue syndrome
- 00:21:41it's not just some fabricated thing we
- 00:21:43call it a syndrome in medicine when we
- 00:21:45don't actually understand that seriously
- 00:21:48it's like oh yeah irritable bowel
- 00:21:49syndrome what does that mean it means
- 00:21:50your stomach hurts and you have diarrhea
- 00:21:52or constipation or bloating it's like
- 00:21:54that doesn't mean anything so
- 00:21:55for me it took me a while because this
- 00:21:57was 25 years ago and there wasn't like a
- 00:21:59big functional medicine movement but
- 00:22:00thank god i was working at a place
- 00:22:03called canyon ranch where there was a
- 00:22:04nutritionist kathy swift who
- 00:22:07introduced me to this guy jeff bland
- 00:22:09who's the father of functional medicine
- 00:22:11and i heard him speak and it was like
- 00:22:12the light went on i'm like oh okay
- 00:22:14there's a different way of thinking i
- 00:22:16said well if he's either crazy or he's a
- 00:22:18genius and i better figure out which one
- 00:22:20so i started to learn read about an
- 00:22:22experiment on myself
- 00:22:23so i was working part-time experiment
- 00:22:25with my patients they would get better i
- 00:22:26wouldn't get better i couldn't figure it
- 00:22:27out i mean it took me years and years
- 00:22:29and years
- 00:22:31if i know what i knew now then i would
- 00:22:33have gotten better a lot faster but i
- 00:22:35didn't have all the information i didn't
- 00:22:36have all the tools i didn't know but i
- 00:22:38did find a huge level of mercury and all
- 00:22:40sorts of other issues so
- 00:22:41i think um
- 00:22:43for me you know i was i'm not stubborn
- 00:22:46but i knew i knew
- 00:22:48like you going to special specialist
- 00:22:50after specialist
- 00:22:51that
- 00:22:52this wasn't in my head like i knew i
- 00:22:55wasn't depressed like you said although
- 00:22:57i felt depressed i felt fatigued i felt
- 00:23:00you know unable to cope or manage but i
- 00:23:02knew it wasn't in my head yes it was
- 00:23:04affecting my brain
- 00:23:06but it wasn't emotional or psychological
- 00:23:09i think you were yeah a step ahead of me
- 00:23:11so i ended up referring myself to a
- 00:23:14psychiatrist
- 00:23:15um because well i went there too
- 00:23:20by that point i wanted a diagnosis right
- 00:23:23i wanted something i could hang my hat
- 00:23:26on
- 00:23:27um
- 00:23:28it and and i hear this a lot from my
- 00:23:30patients too it's it's giving a name to
- 00:23:33something somehow makes it more real and
- 00:23:36i had i had a moment in the bathroom i
- 00:23:39remember i was coming out of the shower
- 00:23:40and i was feeling you know my heart rate
- 00:23:42racing and my blood pressure dropping
- 00:23:44feeling i was going to faint
- 00:23:46and i was going through all my symptoms
- 00:23:49and i basically diagnose myself in the
- 00:23:51bathroom with chronic fatigue syndrome
- 00:23:53and dysautonomia this
- 00:23:55the total dysfunction of the autonomic
- 00:23:58nervous system right which is the branch
- 00:24:00that controls
- 00:24:01largely unconscious
- 00:24:03vital body functions like heart rate
- 00:24:05blood pressure digestion you know this
- 00:24:08stuff it's like i really say well it's
- 00:24:09like air traffic control well worse but
- 00:24:12more serious because
- 00:24:13as soon as it's gone you you realize
- 00:24:16what it was sort of keeping together
- 00:24:18managing all these moving parts
- 00:24:21uh so nothing really felt like it was
- 00:24:23working um within myself
- 00:24:26and
- 00:24:27you know like you said though i mean
- 00:24:29these are syndromes and which kind of
- 00:24:31mean nothing
- 00:24:33so i didn't want that i wanted something
- 00:24:36to
- 00:24:37say it's treatable i always say the name
- 00:24:39of your disease isn't the cause of your
- 00:24:41disease right exactly dysautonomia just
- 00:24:44means your nervous system isn't working
- 00:24:46right chronic fatigue syndrome just
- 00:24:47means you're tired all the time right
- 00:24:49right exactly doesn't tell you why so um
- 00:24:52yeah so i did i went to a psychiatrist i
- 00:24:54think you know where a lot of patients
- 00:24:56like us end up one day
- 00:24:58um and she said you know something that
- 00:25:02made me almost laugh you know she said
- 00:25:04this is not you're not depressed you're
- 00:25:06not anxious
- 00:25:07i think it's your hormones i think it's
- 00:25:09your immune system i mean she was really
- 00:25:10actually going into the systems
- 00:25:13but at the time like i was like well my
- 00:25:15endocrinologist you know said it's not
- 00:25:17my thyroid and right you know and
- 00:25:19immunology why would i go to an
- 00:25:21immunologist you know and so
- 00:25:23uh so i kind of exited and had i known
- 00:25:26about functional medicine or even
- 00:25:28integrative medicine at the time
- 00:25:31it would have been a much smoother path
- 00:25:33but i
- 00:25:34because i had to rebuild the paradigm
- 00:25:36from the bottom up in order to even get
- 00:25:38there
- 00:25:40it took me
- 00:25:41many more years yeah so how did you come
- 00:25:43out of it
- 00:25:45so
- 00:25:46um the first thing i did was uh i went
- 00:25:49back to basics
- 00:25:51and so i did you know i did not suddenly
- 00:25:54just start seeing an acupuncturist or
- 00:25:56start you know trying energy medicine or
- 00:25:59anything that's really alternative i was
- 00:26:00like okay no i'm a doctor i start off
- 00:26:02with crystals no i didn't i didn't
- 00:26:05uh and oh god meditation was like it was
- 00:26:07like pulling teeth so
- 00:26:09um no i went back to basics and i i took
- 00:26:13out my um pathology 101 textbook yeah
- 00:26:16right pathologic basis of disease
- 00:26:18robinson co-training exactly that's the
- 00:26:20we all take it for sure second year
- 00:26:22medical school right and kumar kumar was
- 00:26:24my pathology teacher oh wow so i took it
- 00:26:27out you know i still had it uh it was
- 00:26:30highlighted dog-eared i mean and it
- 00:26:32it actually
- 00:26:33was good for me like if i know
- 00:26:35neuroplasticity right it kind of brought
- 00:26:37me back to this time where i had
- 00:26:39more of a sense of agency over my life
- 00:26:42so in that sense it was also healing i
- 00:26:44didn't recognize it at the time
- 00:26:47but i started reading about
- 00:26:50how diseases how chronic disease
- 00:26:52develops
- 00:26:54and you know about cellular repair and
- 00:26:56cellular injury
- 00:26:57and i was like wait a minute and and
- 00:26:59they actually talk about this was you
- 00:27:01know this was published i don't even
- 00:27:02know which edition but
- 00:27:0320 years ago yeah
- 00:27:05where they say the one cause
- 00:27:09one effect paradigm does not work
- 00:27:11anymore yeah right we're in this this
- 00:27:14complex
- 00:27:15living environment where
- 00:27:18nutrition matters where environmental
- 00:27:20toxins i mean this is 20 years ago yeah
- 00:27:22and they probably wrote that
- 00:27:24several years before that it was
- 00:27:26published right
- 00:27:27so i started reading that and i thought
- 00:27:28wait a minute
- 00:27:30and and then that diseases are not
- 00:27:33defined by a set of criteria
- 00:27:35yeah
- 00:27:36they're this continuum this this process
- 00:27:39and that yes i remember i remember going
- 00:27:41back and reading chapter one and it said
- 00:27:43any pathologic change
- 00:27:45is always preceded by a biochemical
- 00:27:48change
- 00:27:49yes which means that anything you see
- 00:27:51like on a microscope
- 00:27:52there's got to be a lot of years of
- 00:27:54stuff going wrong with your biochemistry
- 00:27:56and physiology before that happens yes
- 00:27:58years and we don't we don't know how to
- 00:28:00look at that in your medicine we just
- 00:28:02wait till you have something wrong and
- 00:28:03then we go oh yeah now i don't know what
- 00:28:04it is right right because in the the way
- 00:28:08that we've been trained inflammation
- 00:28:10which is what i had right widespread
- 00:28:12inflammation in my nerves inflammation
- 00:28:14in my gut inflammation in your brain in
- 00:28:16my thyroid exactly um it doesn't qualify
- 00:28:19as a treatable disease inflammation
- 00:28:22right that's what i was joking say
- 00:28:23functional medicine doctors are
- 00:28:24inflammologists you know yes i love that
- 00:28:27i remember that
- 00:28:28from the first functional medicine
- 00:28:31conference i went to yeah
- 00:28:32where i gave a talk on that right right
- 00:28:35right so um
- 00:28:37and but so that was a really big aha
- 00:28:39moment for me
- 00:28:40was wait a minute
- 00:28:42okay i understand this sudden
- 00:28:44disturbance would i call it in beijing
- 00:28:46but then i had the thyroiditis before
- 00:28:49that which was sort of right the ant the
- 00:28:51the
- 00:28:53preceding
- 00:28:54trigger yeah um
- 00:28:57and then before that okay wait a minute
- 00:28:59you know what when i was in residency
- 00:29:01post call 36 hour shifts
- 00:29:03i would my muscles would feel like
- 00:29:06really cramping fibromyalgia like i felt
- 00:29:08like i'd run a marathon
- 00:29:09and i was dizzy
- 00:29:11and i just assumed well of course
- 00:29:12everyone feels this way because they're
- 00:29:14exhausted
- 00:29:15right right and so i started going
- 00:29:17backwards and realizing okay this has
- 00:29:20been going on for a long time
- 00:29:22and
- 00:29:24for some people that can be really you
- 00:29:25know sort of disheartening but for me at
- 00:29:28where i was
- 00:29:29it was a little ounce of hope because
- 00:29:33it meant that i could sort of stepwise
- 00:29:36piecemeal
- 00:29:38address inflammation in a way that i
- 00:29:40could tolerate what i was really afraid
- 00:29:42of because i was so brittle was having
- 00:29:44any kind of setback that would push me
- 00:29:46down further
- 00:29:47and um so if i could do it in a way that
- 00:29:50was more controlled and gentle
- 00:29:53then um it felt like something i could
- 00:29:55move forward with
- 00:29:57so what did you do and um or the things
- 00:30:00that helped you recover
- 00:30:02so
- 00:30:03what one of the things was um yeah was
- 00:30:06it by the way chronic syndrome is not
- 00:30:08something most people recover from right
- 00:30:10fibromyalgia is not people something
- 00:30:12people recover from absolutely unless
- 00:30:14you see a functional medicine doctor
- 00:30:17right right or have some kind of some
- 00:30:18one of those you know spontaneous
- 00:30:20remissions which is one in a million
- 00:30:22probably right
- 00:30:24um
- 00:30:27yeah so so what i ended up doing also
- 00:30:29was distancing myself from the diagnosis
- 00:30:32and the prognosis
- 00:30:34because it was more despairing
- 00:30:37my marriage was held together by a
- 00:30:38single thread you know i had two young
- 00:30:40kids
- 00:30:41i had everything to lose so i was like
- 00:30:43if i don't get my act together and start
- 00:30:45trying differently then i'm gonna lose
- 00:30:48whatever
- 00:30:49you know what what little i have left
- 00:30:52so um i was really motivated and you
- 00:30:54know the first thing i did was really um
- 00:30:56i started reading about well i knew i
- 00:30:58had to get sleep if i can't get sleep
- 00:31:01i'm gonna not have enough energy
- 00:31:03so
- 00:31:04really looking understanding the
- 00:31:06circadian clock
- 00:31:07and you know i learned things that i was
- 00:31:09surprised i didn't know already you know
- 00:31:12i knew about the pet pineal gland and
- 00:31:14the hypothalamus and we have this master
- 00:31:16clock and we have jet lag and that's why
- 00:31:19but i didn't know about um every organ
- 00:31:23having its own yes clock your own rhythm
- 00:31:27and even a whole field of chronobiology
- 00:31:29where different kinds of chemo is better
- 00:31:31given at different times of the day to
- 00:31:33work better i know this is in
- 00:31:34conventional medicine right and it makes
- 00:31:36i mean it makes
- 00:31:38like complete rational sense right
- 00:31:41so um i started first of all being more
- 00:31:43regimented about just okay you know i'm
- 00:31:46gonna wake up you know and get up out of
- 00:31:48bed
- 00:31:49um even if i feel kind of miserable but
- 00:31:51i'm gonna my body needs to know that
- 00:31:54it's awake and that it's alive
- 00:31:56so really basic fundamental um
- 00:31:59steps
- 00:32:00and um
- 00:32:02and i
- 00:32:03learned that
- 00:32:04when we deviate i mean particularly when
- 00:32:06you're brittle like that i mean of
- 00:32:07course when we're more resilient like
- 00:32:09now i have much more flexibility but
- 00:32:11when when i was brittle you know any uh
- 00:32:14when you stray away so often from a
- 00:32:18routine it causes stress on the body so
- 00:32:21i was like oh okay this is maybe an
- 00:32:23easier way right i can reduce stress on
- 00:32:25my body yeah rhythm
- 00:32:26yeah i feed my dog at the same times
- 00:32:30every day right why do i do that for
- 00:32:31myself you know
- 00:32:33you know and he gets walks now um at the
- 00:32:35same time
- 00:32:36why don't i do that for myself
- 00:32:38so um
- 00:32:40it was i started syncing myself also
- 00:32:42with my kids right like okay i'm gonna
- 00:32:44take care of my kids i can take care of
- 00:32:45myself at the same time
- 00:32:47so um i think that also as in that
- 00:32:50caretaker mentality you know as a mother
- 00:32:52or a partner or a doctor
- 00:32:55is we we tend to put ourselves last
- 00:32:58and so it was kind of time to put myself
- 00:33:01first you know as my first patient
- 00:33:04that's good and so you did the rhythm
- 00:33:06and what else changed your diet and then
- 00:33:08um yeah and you know a lot of it was
- 00:33:10just asking new questions um
- 00:33:12the diet piece i thought i was eating
- 00:33:14quote healthy
- 00:33:16um
- 00:33:17you know which was
- 00:33:18largely vegetarian um i was cooking
- 00:33:22meals but also doing a lot of
- 00:33:23prepackaged meals but you know not a lot
- 00:33:25of processed stuff
- 00:33:27um and
- 00:33:29it wasn't until i saw an acupuncturist
- 00:33:31so the acupuncturist that i saw robert
- 00:33:33levine who's in berkeley
- 00:33:35uh california he um
- 00:33:38uh he was brilliant really brilliant
- 00:33:40he's still practicing and he's a good
- 00:33:42dear friend of mine a mentor of mine i
- 00:33:45learned a ton from him about
- 00:33:47understanding the body in terms of
- 00:33:48systems so when my thyroid was out of
- 00:33:51whack it wasn't just my thyroid it was
- 00:33:54my whole hormone system yeah which is
- 00:33:56tied then to the digestive system which
- 00:33:59is tied to the immune system like it
- 00:34:00suddenly started making sense into the
- 00:34:03thigh bone right yeah exactly
- 00:34:06and the body is connected to the brain
- 00:34:08which is actually amazing in medicine
- 00:34:10that our entire training teaches us the
- 00:34:13opposite that there's all these organ
- 00:34:15systems right we take the gi system and
- 00:34:18the liver and the lungs and the brain
- 00:34:21and the heart and the horm and you go to
- 00:34:24specialists for every different part of
- 00:34:25you and nobody connects the dots right
- 00:34:28right and traditional chinese medicine
- 00:34:29is actually a system of thinking of the
- 00:34:31body as a system and that's what
- 00:34:33functional medicine is it's a systems
- 00:34:34thinking yes absolutely and so you know
- 00:34:37we can extrapolate that to any size
- 00:34:39system right we look at
- 00:34:41our communities and our world right
- 00:34:44and you know one of the things i feel
- 00:34:46like that drives almost every everything
- 00:34:48if not everything that we do as
- 00:34:50individuals and that we do as societies
- 00:34:52is how do i get more energy yeah right
- 00:34:55my qigong teacher was talking about that
- 00:34:57how do we get more energy you know
- 00:34:59whether it's through you know chi means
- 00:35:01energy yeah whether it's through
- 00:35:03solar energy you know
- 00:35:05fossil fuels whether it's yeah i mean
- 00:35:07it's food um nature
- 00:35:11movement
- 00:35:12um so
- 00:35:14you know i began to shift my thinking in
- 00:35:17relationship to
- 00:35:19health and disease in a much more living
- 00:35:22sort of embodied
- 00:35:24way
- 00:35:25so the but the diet thing he was the
- 00:35:28first one he was like you know you're so
- 00:35:30deficient right now like i think you
- 00:35:32need more meat you know and you need
- 00:35:34more
- 00:35:35of these heavier foods like you're doing
- 00:35:36lots of salads and you're doing which
- 00:35:38are great but not for you right now so i
- 00:35:41hadn't even thought about a personalized
- 00:35:43diet yeah and i was like more meats what
- 00:35:46are you talking about you know and this
- 00:35:47is before paleo days and all that
- 00:35:50um
- 00:35:52i began researching ancestral diets and
- 00:35:54you know the work of
- 00:35:56dentist uh weston a price price and
- 00:35:59melvin connors right and it suddenly
- 00:36:01made sense like oh yeah like okay i'm
- 00:36:03gonna eat like my ancestors ate i'm
- 00:36:06gonna prepare food and the way my
- 00:36:07ancestors prepared so i can maximize
- 00:36:09nutrient density nutrient density equals
- 00:36:11more energy yeah
- 00:36:14and then the gluten issue came up uh you
- 00:36:16know i was really
- 00:36:18skeptical yeah yeah it's one of the
- 00:36:20biggest drivers of thyroid disease
- 00:36:22hashimoto's yes yes
- 00:36:24and the celiac experts know that but
- 00:36:27endocrinologists don't
- 00:36:29so there's no crosstalk there either and
- 00:36:32this is in conventional medicine right
- 00:36:34um
- 00:36:35so and i do remember asking my
- 00:36:37endocrinologist like what can i do what
- 00:36:38can i do and he said nothing you know
- 00:36:40it's genetic
- 00:36:41oh gosh no it's um right right
- 00:36:44it's a genetic predisposition but not
- 00:36:46predetermination
- 00:36:48and um so the but the gluten thing
- 00:36:50didn't actually arise i think i was
- 00:36:53partly in denial about it
- 00:36:55um
- 00:36:56i just you know there were lots of
- 00:36:57rabbit holes that i knew about and i
- 00:36:58just didn't want to go down
- 00:37:00as long as i was steadily getting better
- 00:37:02it was my older daughter who she was
- 00:37:04five at the time i was taking her to her
- 00:37:06first dentist visit and you know i felt
- 00:37:09like as a family we ate pretty well she
- 00:37:11didn't do a lot of sweets and
- 00:37:13um but she had not just one cavity at
- 00:37:16her visit she had six cavities wow yeah
- 00:37:19and i was floored
- 00:37:22so
- 00:37:23uh you know and the dentist kept saying
- 00:37:24well don't feel guilty don't feel guilty
- 00:37:26you know and i was like wait a minute
- 00:37:29i wasn't feeling guilty until you just
- 00:37:30said that
- 00:37:31but um it made me investigate like
- 00:37:35something else is going on like i know
- 00:37:37how we eat i know how she brushes
- 00:37:39and i know cavities happen but like six
- 00:37:42it just it didn't compute so i started
- 00:37:45researching and that's when i came
- 00:37:46across west nate price's work
- 00:37:49around
- 00:37:51the condition of teeth tied directly to
- 00:37:55diet but then going deeper and then in
- 00:37:58my research i came across gluten and
- 00:38:00gluten causing enamel defects gluten you
- 00:38:03know causing inflammation in the gut
- 00:38:05which therefore could translate into
- 00:38:07poor oral hygiene
- 00:38:09and or just conditioning of the gums and
- 00:38:12the teeth and um
- 00:38:14so that was just kind of another step
- 00:38:17in that process when i realized oh i got
- 00:38:20to go back and again this is not
- 00:38:22unconventional this is just traditional
- 00:38:24hippocrates said all diseases begin in
- 00:38:27the gut right so we're just kind of
- 00:38:28going back
- 00:38:30and i realized i have to learn i have to
- 00:38:33learn how to heal my gut
- 00:38:35as another step did you still have
- 00:38:37digestive symptoms after that initial
- 00:38:39gastroenteritis in china or did it get
- 00:38:40better uh it was they were largely uh
- 00:38:43quiescent until i removed gluten and i
- 00:38:46removed gluten and i had
- 00:38:48massive withdrawal
- 00:38:50diarrhea irritable bowel and you know
- 00:38:52and again this was kind of before the
- 00:38:54time that i realized i understood about
- 00:38:57detox and how healing happens is that
- 00:38:59often it gets a lot worse before it gets
- 00:39:01better and that it could be a good sign
- 00:39:04so i um
- 00:39:06i was really frightened by how severe my
- 00:39:10my reaction was when i stopped gluten so
- 00:39:12i was thinking it was a bad thing
- 00:39:14um but then you know what i stuck with
- 00:39:16it and a week later it calmed down
- 00:39:19and then my health improved a notch
- 00:39:21so and not only that but you know we
- 00:39:23changed the way that our whole family
- 00:39:25ate
- 00:39:26and um my younger daughter so my my
- 00:39:28older daughter's teeth like you know
- 00:39:31really basically resolve i mean they
- 00:39:34they became really strong some of her
- 00:39:36cavities even filled really good like
- 00:39:37they re-calcified
- 00:39:39and
- 00:39:40uh didn't have to get filled
- 00:39:42my younger daughter um who
- 00:39:45didn't really have any uh thing that you
- 00:39:47know was alarming but she could she had
- 00:39:49like this perioral eczema which is this
- 00:39:52dermatitis which is very difficult to
- 00:39:54treat with it's often dairy
- 00:39:56steroids i mean which is how we treat
- 00:39:58most dermatitis
- 00:40:01red on the skin they put steroids on it
- 00:40:03exactly exactly why is the skin
- 00:40:04irritated right from the inside not the
- 00:40:07outside so she had that and she had she
- 00:40:09would get asthma when she got colds
- 00:40:11and
- 00:40:12both of those are totally totally
- 00:40:14resolved
- 00:40:16off of gluten
- 00:40:17well off of gluten but also doing the
- 00:40:18ancestral diet
- 00:40:20so often dairy
- 00:40:22yes
- 00:40:23yes yeah and um
- 00:40:25you know so it was just one of those
- 00:40:26things i was like you know you can't
- 00:40:28make this stuff up
- 00:40:30and um this stuff isn't written up
- 00:40:33um and it's very individualized
- 00:40:36so but if you look in the literature you
- 00:40:38know doctor where's the evidence where's
- 00:40:39the evidence well there's 900 000 papers
- 00:40:41published every year most doctors
- 00:40:42haven't read that many of them
- 00:40:44and the truth is that most of the ones
- 00:40:46that are on these subjects are
- 00:40:47completely ignored and when you put all
- 00:40:49the dots together there's a pattern
- 00:40:50there and the data that suggests that
- 00:40:52these things are real that there is
- 00:40:53something called leaky gut that there is
- 00:40:55inflammation that comes from the
- 00:40:56microbiome that you know foods do cause
- 00:40:59reactions in the body that lead to all
- 00:41:00these diseases that heavy metals and
- 00:41:02toxins are an issue that cause disease i
- 00:41:04mean there's no lack of data it's just
- 00:41:06not data that doctors pay attention to
- 00:41:08in literature right and you know and it
- 00:41:10takes on average fourteen year i thought
- 00:41:13seventeen oh seventeen oh god
- 00:41:16that's not good for information that's
- 00:41:18not a good day for information and
- 00:41:20research to translate over to clinical
- 00:41:21care yeah i think that's a good day the
- 00:41:23guy who discovered that we should wash
- 00:41:25our hands before giving you know any
- 00:41:27surgery or
- 00:41:29uh childbirth
- 00:41:30was basically ridiculed for suggesting
- 00:41:33that doctors could be causing their
- 00:41:35patients to get sick by not washing
- 00:41:36their hands and he was
- 00:41:38basically exiled and ended up dying in
- 00:41:40sort of disgrace with no money and you
- 00:41:42know excommunicated from the medical
- 00:41:44community semi-wise and it took 50 years
- 00:41:46for them to go yeah maybe we should wash
- 00:41:48their hands oh my god
- 00:41:50no no
- 00:41:52where's the science on that right yeah
- 00:41:54right well it was just it was it was an
- 00:41:55anathema the doctors that oh you could
- 00:41:57suggest that a doctor would be causing
- 00:41:58their patients to die from childbirth
- 00:42:00fever because they didn't wash their
- 00:42:01hands that's nonsense yeah so that it is
- 00:42:03tough to change medical paradigms right
- 00:42:05right but i mean some of it is common
- 00:42:07sense yeah we don't need science to show
- 00:42:09us that right well i mean when they
- 00:42:11didn't know about bacteria common sense
- 00:42:13was yeah that's true that's true yeah
- 00:42:16so yeah i mean i kind of just did this
- 00:42:18stepwise um progression
- 00:42:20to get to the point where i was
- 00:42:23much more able to get out of the house
- 00:42:25yeah and then um
- 00:42:27and one of the the things i also
- 00:42:30explored which i would say maybe is down
- 00:42:32the unconventional path was
- 00:42:33um i began to
- 00:42:36i began to shadow integrative doctors on
- 00:42:39just different
- 00:42:41um
- 00:42:42different paths in integrative medicine
- 00:42:44or sort of you know i didn't actually
- 00:42:47know about functional medicine at the
- 00:42:48time so i was shadowing a um
- 00:42:52an anthroposophical
- 00:42:53medicine doc
- 00:42:55you know someone doing like sort of
- 00:42:56anti-aging hormone therapies
- 00:42:59um and then it was when i was shadowing
- 00:43:01a integrative pediatrician
- 00:43:04who said well you know what are you this
- 00:43:05is i mean i was still
- 00:43:07unwell i was had taken off work for a
- 00:43:10couple of years and but i was starting
- 00:43:12to think like oh how does it how would
- 00:43:14it look
- 00:43:16if i were to return to work like what
- 00:43:17are the different ways i could practice
- 00:43:20and um it was the pediatrician who said
- 00:43:22what are you interested in i said well
- 00:43:24you know i really i love the traditional
- 00:43:26chinese medicine paradigm it makes so
- 00:43:28much sense to me the system's thinking
- 00:43:30you know about the gut you know sort of
- 00:43:31being the foundation of healing and i'm
- 00:43:34really you know ancestral health you
- 00:43:36know uh figures into it
- 00:43:38and she said um it sounds like you you
- 00:43:41know you're interested in functional
- 00:43:42medicine i was like what is that what's
- 00:43:44that what is that
- 00:43:45so um and she really strongly
- 00:43:48recommended that i go see the uh take
- 00:43:50this course with institute for
- 00:43:52functional medicine yeah so i it was
- 00:43:54sort of a a bone for me right like i i
- 00:43:56could i was aiming to get
- 00:43:59healthy enough to be able to travel to
- 00:44:02go attend a conference
- 00:44:04and so um
- 00:44:05and it came to santa monica and i live
- 00:44:07in in the bay area so it was it felt
- 00:44:10doable it wasn't yeah across country
- 00:44:13and um
- 00:44:14and i went and it was i think i had that
- 00:44:16aha moment like you did when you you
- 00:44:18know listened to jeff bland
- 00:44:21i was like oh my god
- 00:44:23oh my god and like
- 00:44:25this is this is like this is something
- 00:44:27that's been developed and developing
- 00:44:29and there's a framework i don't have to
- 00:44:31make this up no
- 00:44:33um so it was a it was a really important
- 00:44:37turning point for me it gave me hope
- 00:44:39both in
- 00:44:40you know as a
- 00:44:42as a patient but also as a doctor how
- 00:44:44can i give back
- 00:44:46um what it did also cause was it caused
- 00:44:49a little bit of anxiety
- 00:44:51yeah i had to relearn medicine
- 00:44:53i had to relearn medicine but then
- 00:44:55suddenly
- 00:44:56i went from
- 00:44:58having no or very few options
- 00:45:01to having infinite options and how to
- 00:45:03get better
- 00:45:04yeah yeah right okay like which diet
- 00:45:06when you know which supplements you know
- 00:45:08what do i you know what do i rule myself
- 00:45:11out for mold and mercury and all these
- 00:45:12things
- 00:45:13and it felt very overwhelming
- 00:45:16and so that's when i ended up i i
- 00:45:18actually didn't choose this
- 00:45:20i did and you know i had a very an
- 00:45:22unconventional navigator was we had a
- 00:45:24visit from some friends of ours
- 00:45:27who uh ended up staying with us and
- 00:45:30um we had known them for years but
- 00:45:32they'd never stayed with us and we've
- 00:45:33always known them through sort of the
- 00:45:35sustainability work right so i was i had
- 00:45:37been doing environmental health my
- 00:45:39husband is in public policy around
- 00:45:41renewable energy so we knew them through
- 00:45:43um work
- 00:45:44circles and anyways we were hosting them
- 00:45:47for a weekend and they come
- 00:45:50we knew that the wife pia
- 00:45:53was um was also clairvoyant so she was
- 00:45:56she was a sustainable architect and her
- 00:45:58husband was one of the leading climate
- 00:46:00physicists
- 00:46:02so there was this very
- 00:46:03skill to have exactly so they're very
- 00:46:06dynamic couple we knew about her
- 00:46:08clairvoyance through sort of hearsay but
- 00:46:10we we had never experienced it up front
- 00:46:13and kind of never
- 00:46:14really were curious enough to go there
- 00:46:17oh yeah exactly that's how i felt
- 00:46:19so
- 00:46:20they ended up staying in our house and
- 00:46:22um one of the things was that uh my
- 00:46:25younger daughter was having night
- 00:46:26terrors and um
- 00:46:29for four months which did not bode well
- 00:46:31for my insomnia
- 00:46:33and we had tried everything i mean and
- 00:46:35and actually gone out kind of on an
- 00:46:36alternative limb right she was doing
- 00:46:38like chamomile drops and
- 00:46:40um you know some homeopathy
- 00:46:44uh but nothing really touched her and so
- 00:46:46pia walks into her house and she starts
- 00:46:48coughing
- 00:46:50coughing coughing
- 00:46:51and uh and she said you know there's
- 00:46:53something uh there's something going on
- 00:46:56the energy in this house is really heavy
- 00:46:58you know do you guys feel it
- 00:47:00and we're all looking at each other like
- 00:47:01okay
- 00:47:02you know right right and uh she said
- 00:47:04well but it's really heavy and so she
- 00:47:06she said
- 00:47:07do you mind if i just walk around so
- 00:47:09she's walking around and she said it's
- 00:47:10heaviest in the girl's room
- 00:47:13and so
- 00:47:14you know
- 00:47:15nothing opens your mind like desperation
- 00:47:17right sure right
- 00:47:19so
- 00:47:20people only change when they have
- 00:47:22when they don't have any peace syndrome
- 00:47:24anymore you know any peace syndrome is
- 00:47:26not enough pain yes yes when people have
- 00:47:28enough pain they're gonna do whatever
- 00:47:29right right and you hit that dead end
- 00:47:31right
- 00:47:32so uh i just said i said you know what
- 00:47:34maybe it's heavy because sonia my
- 00:47:36daughter's been crying every single
- 00:47:38night right
- 00:47:39and she said wait a minute she said no
- 00:47:41no no it's the other way around
- 00:47:43sonja's crying because she feels the
- 00:47:46heaviness too i'm like okay whatever
- 00:47:49so she goes off to whole foods of all
- 00:47:53places
- 00:47:54gets a sage wand right with a smudge
- 00:47:56stick which i had never heard of before
- 00:47:59it's a native american way of course
- 00:48:01exactly so she just goes around she said
- 00:48:03well you it's really important that you
- 00:48:04come with me you're the lady of the
- 00:48:06house and your intention really matters
- 00:48:08and i'm like but my intention is i don't
- 00:48:09actually believe what you're doing she
- 00:48:11said no no just
- 00:48:13just say whatever doesn't belong here
- 00:48:14needs to leave
- 00:48:16and if the thing that really um
- 00:48:18convinced me to do it with her
- 00:48:21well first of all is low risk i mean
- 00:48:22there was right i'm always looking for
- 00:48:24high potential gain low risk a little
- 00:48:26sage
- 00:48:27exactly never hurt anyone um but
- 00:48:30get out she said that she had a vision
- 00:48:33and she described this vision of this
- 00:48:35man you know tall slender
- 00:48:37reddish brown hair balding right here
- 00:48:40wearing a plaid shirt
- 00:48:41and it sent chills down my my just threw
- 00:48:44out my body because
- 00:48:46this was the seller of the house who
- 00:48:48we'd met three times
- 00:48:50like 280
- 00:48:51wow and so she said he died
- 00:48:53he had not died he had moved out but he
- 00:48:56had not wanted to move out
- 00:48:58and she said
- 00:49:00that's just what keeps coming to me when
- 00:49:02i look at the energy and i was like okay
- 00:49:04whoa
- 00:49:06weird but okay like that's really spot
- 00:49:09on yeah so we just walked around and uh
- 00:49:11you know and i was kind of just being
- 00:49:13very sympathetic too i sympathized with
- 00:49:17the cellar right that he had to leave
- 00:49:18his home yeah
- 00:49:20so um
- 00:49:22you know but but i was i wasn't holding
- 00:49:24my breath and from that night on sonia
- 00:49:26slept
- 00:49:27soundly amazing i mean you know to this
- 00:49:30day she's an incredible sleeper
- 00:49:32so
- 00:49:33you know and then there was still part
- 00:49:35of me who was like well you know there's
- 00:49:36no control you know how do we really
- 00:49:38know maybe it was coincidental
- 00:49:40but before pia left what she did was she
- 00:49:43said um oh i actually approached her and
- 00:49:45i said well if you can lift the
- 00:49:47heaviness in a house can you live what's
- 00:49:48wrong with me can you lift the heaviness
- 00:49:50in my body
- 00:49:51you know i mean i'm much smaller than
- 00:49:52this house
- 00:49:54and
- 00:49:54she said oh you know it doesn't work
- 00:49:57quite like that
- 00:49:58um and she said but i can do one thing i
- 00:50:01can teach you how to develop intuition
- 00:50:03which i had never heard of i did not
- 00:50:05know that intuition was something like
- 00:50:08music or art like you can develop it
- 00:50:10yeah you can practice it and she was
- 00:50:13very pragmatic about it and she said no
- 00:50:14this doesn't mean you're going to be
- 00:50:15clairvoyant right but it just means that
- 00:50:18you can learn to to open this other
- 00:50:20side of your brain that has probably
- 00:50:22been closed off for a long time because
- 00:50:24of your training and your upbringing so
- 00:50:26i um
- 00:50:28so she taught me how to do that
- 00:50:30um well she taught me what i needed to
- 00:50:32do to begin to practice to open up to
- 00:50:34that and a lot of it was it was so basic
- 00:50:37a lot of it was just silencing my
- 00:50:39analytical mind and
- 00:50:42being in my body
- 00:50:43and that second part was the heart well
- 00:50:45actually they were both really hard they
- 00:50:46were both really hard silent the
- 00:50:47analytical mind being in my body um
- 00:50:51because my body was so uncomfortable
- 00:50:52yeah and so she said you know you can
- 00:50:55only heal something that you are
- 00:50:57connected to
- 00:50:59you can heal something you're just
- 00:51:00detached from
- 00:51:02so that was
- 00:51:04healing on multiple levels both that i
- 00:51:06had to inhabit my body which was
- 00:51:08probably one of the biggest
- 00:51:12steps in terms of healing
- 00:51:14not being afraid of it but going into it
- 00:51:16and then also
- 00:51:18[Music]
- 00:51:19learning how to read sensations for as
- 00:51:22messages and not just
- 00:51:25symptoms that you know we're making them
- 00:51:27miserable yeah yeah i always say the
- 00:51:28smartest doctor in the room is your own
- 00:51:30body if you listen to it absolutely
- 00:51:32absolutely so
- 00:51:34the intuition piece came in incredibly
- 00:51:36handy
- 00:51:37when
- 00:51:38i
- 00:51:39was introduced to functional medicine i
- 00:51:41wasn't really practicing it
- 00:51:43um because i was doing steadily better
- 00:51:46and then i were you trying some of it on
- 00:51:48yourself
- 00:51:49i was trying some of it on myself but
- 00:51:50like it was it was you know i mean you
- 00:51:52know how it is when you're like it's
- 00:51:54like trying you know someone
- 00:51:56wants you to play a piano piece you
- 00:51:57can't even read the notes yet and it
- 00:51:58just it's laborious so i wasn't um i
- 00:52:02wasn't motivated
- 00:52:03but then i go to the intro
- 00:52:06to functional medicine conference
- 00:52:08and
- 00:52:09saw all these tools um
- 00:52:12but then felt overwhelmed and then i was
- 00:52:14motivated to practice intuition
- 00:52:17and i really learned to use intuition to
- 00:52:19guide me like
- 00:52:20how do i choose what to do next um is
- 00:52:23this the right diet for me
- 00:52:26is gluten really you know is it
- 00:52:27something that i can
- 00:52:28return to or is it something that i
- 00:52:30really need to stay off of strictly so
- 00:52:33um
- 00:52:34it began to
- 00:52:36it made that navigation much easier for
- 00:52:39me
- 00:52:40and um and it's something that i
- 00:52:41encourage my patients to you know to
- 00:52:44develop
- 00:52:45if they're interested it's it's simple
- 00:52:46it just takes a lot of repetition and
- 00:52:49quiet listening so you found you know
- 00:52:51one of the causes was gluten right
- 00:52:54and toxins you got from china that
- 00:52:56you've yes worked on getting rid of
- 00:52:58right was there anything else i did a
- 00:52:59lot of detoxes
- 00:53:00um so you know i learned how to balance
- 00:53:03my hormones um i think my hormones were
- 00:53:06really out of whack after that that
- 00:53:08incident what does that mean
- 00:53:09well my my estrogen and progesterone
- 00:53:11levels were really low
- 00:53:13so
- 00:53:14um i
- 00:53:16you know
- 00:53:17for a while i actually took bioidentical
- 00:53:19hormones to just support my system so i
- 00:53:22could get strong enough just to help
- 00:53:24balance out the immune system
- 00:53:26and then as my
- 00:53:28whole system got stronger
- 00:53:30i was able to really
- 00:53:32wean off of those and and
- 00:53:35just last year even like 14 years later
- 00:53:37i actually completely tapered off my
- 00:53:39thyroid medicine as well
- 00:53:41so i
- 00:53:42didn't know that was possible yeah
- 00:53:44amazing what happens when you learn how
- 00:53:46to take care of your mind amazing yeah
- 00:53:48yeah i mean functional medicine is an
- 00:53:49incredible roadmap it's really about
- 00:53:52thinking differently about disease and
- 00:53:54it's what you said it's about
- 00:53:55understanding the body is a system where
- 00:53:57everything's connected
- 00:53:58where there are root causes of things
- 00:54:00that we can get to where there's things
- 00:54:02your body needs like rhythm or the right
- 00:54:04food to help it restore balance
- 00:54:07and when you do that
- 00:54:09for yourself it works and often you know
- 00:54:12it's not something you even have to do
- 00:54:13in a doctor's office a lot of things
- 00:54:15that actually work to create balance are
- 00:54:18things that
- 00:54:19everybody can do whether it's eating
- 00:54:20well
- 00:54:21moving right sleeping absolutely
- 00:54:24meditating
- 00:54:25connecting you know being the social
- 00:54:28support system and then sometimes you do
- 00:54:30need help to get rid of some of the
- 00:54:31drivers things like heavy metals or
- 00:54:33infections like lime which you said you
- 00:54:35had or mold if you're which i had and
- 00:54:37almost died from a couple years ago
- 00:54:39um allergens those those are the things
- 00:54:41that actually you know you might need a
- 00:54:43little help with but
- 00:54:44if you're suffering out there if you're
- 00:54:46listening and you're wondering you know
- 00:54:48what's the road how do i how do i get
- 00:54:50better you know i've been told that this
- 00:54:52is just something i have to live with
- 00:54:53that i have to manage that i take
- 00:54:55medications for i encourage you to just
- 00:54:58have hope because if if you are
- 00:55:00suffering there is a road for most
- 00:55:02people to recover and functional
- 00:55:04medicine
- 00:55:05is the gps system to figure out how to
- 00:55:07navigate that road yeah and it really is
- 00:55:10a powerful model it's not the answer to
- 00:55:12everything but it is a far better
- 00:55:14mousetrap than we were trained with in
- 00:55:15conventional medicine and it's
- 00:55:18what i've done for the last 25 years it
- 00:55:19clearly is what helped you recover it
- 00:55:21helped me recover and i wouldn't really
- 00:55:23do what i'm doing if i didn't actually
- 00:55:25understand the body in that way and
- 00:55:27every day you know i i remember first
- 00:55:29practicing functional medicine i wasn't
- 00:55:30like for you but
- 00:55:31i was like i would tell people to do
- 00:55:33this stuff that was sort of outside the
- 00:55:35box what i learned in medical school and
- 00:55:36they'd have severe migraines you know 25
- 00:55:38times a month or they'd be
- 00:55:40having severe
- 00:55:42irritable bowel or they'd have you know
- 00:55:44an autoimmune disease and and i would
- 00:55:46tell them to do you know change your
- 00:55:48diet do this do that
- 00:55:49and they call me back six weeks later
- 00:55:51whatever and they were like i'm better
- 00:55:52and i'm like you are really i say the
- 00:55:54same i'm like what
- 00:55:56that worked okay fine you know i was
- 00:55:59like i really took me years and years to
- 00:56:02expect
- 00:56:04that people would get better because i
- 00:56:05was like well i don't know what i'm
- 00:56:06doing i'm just going to try this stuff
- 00:56:08and
- 00:56:09it seems to make sense and it's not
- 00:56:11going to hurt them right and
- 00:56:14people just recovered and it just was
- 00:56:16amazing to me yeah i mean i had a woman
- 00:56:18the other day who came in with
- 00:56:19vestibular migraines which is a terrible
- 00:56:21kind of migraine where your head is
- 00:56:23spinning you're in vertigo it's like you
- 00:56:25were saying you experienced she had
- 00:56:26severe migraines 25 times a month she
- 00:56:29had severe
- 00:56:30other quote other symptoms so she was
- 00:56:32seeing the neurologist for that but they
- 00:56:33weren't worrying about her gut and she
- 00:56:35was having severe bloating
- 00:56:38fluid retention you know digestive
- 00:56:40issues she had anxiety i mean she
- 00:56:42couldn't even come in my office without
- 00:56:44the door being open wow and she was
- 00:56:47really smart young woman who wanted to
- 00:56:49go to be a nurse practitioner she was a
- 00:56:51nurse
- 00:56:51and it wasn't in her head and she was on
- 00:56:53all these antidepressants and
- 00:56:54psychiatric medications and any anxiety
- 00:56:56medications and vertigo medications
- 00:56:59micromaniac you know the drill
- 00:57:01and i'm like well and then medications
- 00:57:03to counter those side effects of those
- 00:57:05medications right and so you know
- 00:57:07i just followed the basic map of how do
- 00:57:09you help people restore health and
- 00:57:12function and for her i was like well you
- 00:57:14know she's got a lot of inflammation
- 00:57:15going on i could see her she was swollen
- 00:57:17she had fluid retention she had gained a
- 00:57:19bunch of weight
- 00:57:21and
- 00:57:22you know i wasn't treating her migraine
- 00:57:24i was helping restore her gut function
- 00:57:26yes and i was helping her you know eat a
- 00:57:29diet that was anti-inflammatory and i
- 00:57:30was helping her
- 00:57:32with certain nutrients she was low in
- 00:57:34and
- 00:57:35you know i never really had a patient
- 00:57:37like this before you know that was that
- 00:57:39severe that had vestibular migraines and
- 00:57:41in functional medicine it doesn't matter
- 00:57:43if you've never seen the disease before
- 00:57:44because if you follow if you follow the
- 00:57:46principles of
- 00:57:48removing the stuff that's causing a
- 00:57:50problem and adding in the stuff that
- 00:57:51creates health the body knows what to do
- 00:57:53it's super smart right the body figures
- 00:57:55it out right we don't have to no and so
- 00:57:58i i just you know fixed her gut she had
- 00:58:00really bad i gave her stuff to clear up
- 00:58:02you know sibo she had bacterial
- 00:58:03overgrowth i should like fungal
- 00:58:05overgrowth in her gut so i cleared all
- 00:58:07that out i restored her gut with a gut
- 00:58:10health shake which contained you know
- 00:58:11polyphenols and cranberry and
- 00:58:13pomegranate green tea and gave her
- 00:58:15probiotics and prebiotics and you know
- 00:58:17just fiber and things to help her gut
- 00:58:20a few basic nutrients got her on an
- 00:58:22anti-inflammatory gluten dairy-free diet
- 00:58:24she came back six weeks later i didn't
- 00:58:26recognize her i mean wow she all the flu
- 00:58:28went out of her body
- 00:58:30she was bright and alert
- 00:58:32she was funny
- 00:58:33and had not had a migraine and was you
- 00:58:36know symptom-free her gut was completely
- 00:58:39better and she was off the medication
- 00:58:42that's amazing but i don't want to
- 00:58:44discount also the fact that you
- 00:58:46acknowledged her and validated her yeah
- 00:58:48i mean which is a huge piece i'm like
- 00:58:50you're not crazy you saw her right i
- 00:58:52mean she was in bed and she i mean i
- 00:58:53could tell she wasn't a malinger she
- 00:58:55wasn't a whiner right but she get it's
- 00:58:57easy to dismiss these patients and go
- 00:58:59well it's just you know they're just
- 00:59:00psychological whatever just give them
- 00:59:02some meds and kick them off right but
- 00:59:03then they're psychological because they
- 00:59:04feel miserable right well that's very
- 00:59:06important right right right i'm like
- 00:59:08wait a minute like okay
- 00:59:10your brain is right the difficult
- 00:59:11patients are the ones who are really
- 00:59:13suffering right that's why they keep
- 00:59:14coming back that's why they're irritable
- 00:59:15that's why
- 00:59:16and you and your doctors called you a
- 00:59:18difficult patient yeah i mean i call
- 00:59:20myself a difficult patient and you want
- 00:59:22to be in a difficult manner but
- 00:59:25but it's the difficult way it's the
- 00:59:26difficult relationships
- 00:59:28that force us to grow i mean we have to
- 00:59:30start asking the question like wait a
- 00:59:32minute and i would say it's like any
- 00:59:34other relationship right even if one
- 00:59:36person is the one who's sort of being
- 00:59:38dismissed and is kind of miserable i
- 00:59:39mean both people in the relationship
- 00:59:41know it's not something's not working
- 00:59:42that's right so even before i got sick i
- 00:59:45knew that the tools that i had in my
- 00:59:47doctor's bag were really limited
- 00:59:49i already knew that but that's kind of
- 00:59:51the best i could do yeah but you didn't
- 00:59:52know what else was out there right i
- 00:59:54think you know i mean you and i both
- 00:59:55have the experience of being knocked to
- 00:59:57our knees
- 00:59:58in order to figure out a different way i
- 01:00:00don't wish that on all our medical
- 01:00:02colleagues no but i do wish they would
- 01:00:04understand that that the paradigm that
- 01:00:06we learned is only part of the story and
- 01:00:08that yeah
- 01:00:09everything i learned in medical school
- 01:00:11is useful and i use it and i rely on it
- 01:00:14but there's another meta layer
- 01:00:16of understanding how the body is
- 01:00:19organized
- 01:00:20because those are just the piece parts
- 01:00:22like what does the puzzle look like when
- 01:00:23you put it together that's what
- 01:00:25functional medicine is and it's such a
- 01:00:26powerful model it's what we do at the
- 01:00:28ultra wellness center in lenox you know
- 01:00:29i have uh three other doctors two pas
- 01:00:32five nutritionists and we work with
- 01:00:34people from all over the world we've
- 01:00:35like you know probably over 70 years of
- 01:00:37clinical experience together and it's
- 01:00:39just amazing the kinds of things that
- 01:00:41that people can recover from and now
- 01:00:42you're doing that in your own practice
- 01:00:44you've written this great book brave new
- 01:00:45medicine which is a really fabulous
- 01:00:47story about how you as a physician
- 01:00:50understood that there's a different way
- 01:00:52to heal your illnesses and your
- 01:00:53autoimmune disease and all this weird
- 01:00:56nonsense that we don't know how to deal
- 01:00:58with in medicine right and sort of just
- 01:01:00what does it look like the lived
- 01:01:02experience
- 01:01:03um you know to your point though i mean
- 01:01:06um i um right at the end of my book
- 01:01:09about this essay this famous essay
- 01:01:11called arrogance back in i think was
- 01:01:131980 in the
- 01:01:15the um new england journal of med
- 01:01:17medicine editor at that time or he had
- 01:01:20been retired ingle finger he was dying
- 01:01:23from cancer and had written this uh very
- 01:01:26provocative essay
- 01:01:27where amy was talking about arrogance at
- 01:01:29the time and i would say it's probably
- 01:01:30arrogance is probably not the you know
- 01:01:32not the vice of today i think it's more
- 01:01:36um just not seeing right not seeing or
- 01:01:39denial it's a little bit of hubris a
- 01:01:41little bit of denial
- 01:01:44um
- 01:01:45and
- 01:01:46he had posed the question what would
- 01:01:49what would medicine look like if one of
- 01:01:52the prerequisites for all doctors
- 01:01:54entering medical school was that they
- 01:01:55had a serious illness yeah like what
- 01:01:58would it look like right
- 01:02:00and so
- 01:02:02yeah would there be more empathy would
- 01:02:03there be more
- 01:02:05belief i mean like this this one of the
- 01:02:08central
- 01:02:09questions in my life has always been
- 01:02:11around belief yeah right like what is
- 01:02:14true and what is not true how do we make
- 01:02:16ourselves believe things if we don't
- 01:02:18yeah um and
- 01:02:21yeah and like how do how do we start
- 01:02:24with that
- 01:02:25like as a doctor like just believing all
- 01:02:27patients
- 01:02:29and that's really important because you
- 01:02:31know
- 01:02:32as physicians we were subliminally
- 01:02:35trained to
- 01:02:36have a dismissive attitude to many
- 01:02:38categories of patients you know if you
- 01:02:39had irritable bowel well that was in
- 01:02:41your head or if you had chronic fatigue
- 01:02:43or fibromyalgia or if you had
- 01:02:45you know even more serious illnesses
- 01:02:47like crohn's or colitis oh that was
- 01:02:49psychological yeah it manifested
- 01:02:51physically but you know these were
- 01:02:53trouble patients right right
- 01:02:55i mean which is so ironic and
- 01:02:57unfortunate i mean for everyone i mean
- 01:02:59like i know for myself and many of my
- 01:03:02colleagues and friends that i
- 01:03:03went into medicine to alleviate
- 01:03:05suffering
- 01:03:07and
- 01:03:07you know
- 01:03:08how much of it are we perpetuating and
- 01:03:10you know one of the the themes also that
- 01:03:13that comes up over and over again with
- 01:03:15chronic illness and i know for myself
- 01:03:17too is
- 01:03:18you know reaching that point of
- 01:03:19hopelessness or helplessness and
- 01:03:22there becomes a learned helplessness on
- 01:03:24top of that when you get punted from
- 01:03:26doctor to doctor to doctor so are we
- 01:03:28perpetuating illness as well through
- 01:03:31this system and
- 01:03:33you know i
- 01:03:34so yeah would i want doctors to go
- 01:03:36through this i mean hell no
- 01:03:38but you know so i sort of turned that
- 01:03:41question on its head like what would
- 01:03:42medicine look like if
- 01:03:45doctors nurses healthcare practitioners
- 01:03:49had an immersion in wellness
- 01:03:53yeah like what if doctors
- 01:03:55right were taught to sleep well what if
- 01:03:58doctors were fed well in their training
- 01:04:00what if doctors you know
- 01:04:03terrible what would it
- 01:04:05look like what would medicine look like
- 01:04:07if we it could have sleeping consider
- 01:04:09weaknesses and residency training i know
- 01:04:11that i know that and
- 01:04:14but would we
- 01:04:16would we have that experience then
- 01:04:19to be able to translate to our patients
- 01:04:22right i mean we're ultimately teachers
- 01:04:24well that's what functional medicine is
- 01:04:25it's a science of creating health yes
- 01:04:27and when you do that disease goes away
- 01:04:29as a side effect yes and you're right i
- 01:04:31think you know if you look at most
- 01:04:32healing traditions
- 01:04:34a lot of shamans or healers went through
- 01:04:37some crisis some health crisis some
- 01:04:40trauma some some initiatory illness that
- 01:04:42was sort of
- 01:04:44helped you know
- 01:04:45sort of select them to be healers
- 01:04:48we don't do that anymore we just have
- 01:04:49the hazing of medical school
- 01:04:52but that makes us all kind of unwell in
- 01:04:54a way and we sort of then normalize that
- 01:04:57absolutely yeah yeah and and then we
- 01:04:59sort of pass it on right it's a kind of
- 01:05:01trauma
- 01:05:02it is it's a kind of trauma and we pass
- 01:05:04it on to our patients
- 01:05:07so how do we break that cycle and you
- 01:05:09know i would say one thing though just
- 01:05:11to um
- 01:05:12to bring up
- 01:05:14related to that in terms of my healing
- 01:05:16was
- 01:05:16it was hard for me i mean even when i
- 01:05:19found functional medicine
- 01:05:20um i just it was easy i just had such
- 01:05:23little energy that it was easy still for
- 01:05:26me to
- 01:05:27have uh hope i called it hope fatigue
- 01:05:30right to try another thing to try again
- 01:05:33and what i ended up discovering that was
- 01:05:36easier
- 01:05:37was to release so instead of sort of
- 01:05:40going you know trying to think
- 01:05:42positively trying to be optimistic which
- 01:05:45were things that
- 01:05:46um
- 01:05:47surrender to it
- 01:05:48absolutely i mean because it those
- 01:05:51qualities feel like sunlight to someone
- 01:05:54who's suffering from a migraine right
- 01:05:55like i know i need that sunlight but it
- 01:05:58is killing me right now yeah you know my
- 01:06:00husband was this sort of embodiment of
- 01:06:01resilience and confidence and optimism i
- 01:06:04couldn't stand to be around him you know
- 01:06:05it was stressful
- 01:06:07from where i was
- 01:06:08and so
- 01:06:10what i ended up
- 01:06:12stumbling across was oh my god like i'm
- 01:06:14carrying around a lot of grief
- 01:06:16okay yes i've got you know my lost
- 01:06:19identities and time lost and all this
- 01:06:21suffering but like
- 01:06:23you know all this stuff came out right i
- 01:06:25went to a grief ritual i didn't i didn't
- 01:06:27know those things existed but you know
- 01:06:30back
- 01:06:30generations ago in cultures
- 01:06:33those are like soul detoxes yeah right
- 01:06:35like how do we do that that's right like
- 01:06:38it's not a body i love that soul detox
- 01:06:40how much are we carrying it is
- 01:06:42subconsciously
- 01:06:43programmed into the way our dna folds
- 01:06:46you know into the way our
- 01:06:47our neurons are wired
- 01:06:49and so
- 01:06:51you know and grief is in is
- 01:06:52non-discriminant so like i thought i was
- 01:06:54going for
- 01:06:55my health you know just the loss of the
- 01:06:57function of my body yeah
- 01:06:59and
- 01:07:00all this stuff came out cobwebs right
- 01:07:03from childhood from you know residency
- 01:07:06relationships in the past and
- 01:07:08and then the shame the shame of having
- 01:07:12these this mysterious illness the shame
- 01:07:14of being a doctor who cannot figure it
- 01:07:16out
- 01:07:17and um
- 01:07:18[Music]
- 01:07:20that was really really healing so then
- 01:07:22as as you say like as a side effect what
- 01:07:25ends up filling up that space
- 01:07:27is health yeah right it is oh i suddenly
- 01:07:30become more optimistic i have more hope
- 01:07:33because there's space for it yeah it's
- 01:07:35not something that i have to will myself
- 01:07:37in order to get because i couldn't do
- 01:07:39that that's amazing yeah and so you've
- 01:07:41taken all you've learned you've been
- 01:07:42through you know so many different
- 01:07:44cycles of struggle and you've recovered
- 01:07:46and come back on top and you've written
- 01:07:48this book and and you know what's
- 01:07:50beautiful is you know it's really your
- 01:07:51your story but it's an inspiring story
- 01:07:53and it's a
- 01:07:54it's it's a
- 01:07:55sort of a window into
- 01:07:57both sort of
- 01:07:59how
- 01:08:00in traditional medicine we kind of miss
- 01:08:03the boat a lot of times and how you can
- 01:08:05on your own become empowered to
- 01:08:08find a brave new medicine
- 01:08:10but you also share at the end of the
- 01:08:12book you know 15 steps
- 01:08:14that
- 01:08:16are about healing about how to care for
- 01:08:18your body and how to heal so in a way
- 01:08:20you sort of
- 01:08:21to make it really simple for people
- 01:08:23in how to actually create health for
- 01:08:25themselves can you take us through those
- 01:08:27yeah so i mean a lot of the steps were
- 01:08:29um
- 01:08:30uh ones that we covered
- 01:08:32and so the way that i um sort of
- 01:08:36lived through the experience of my
- 01:08:37healing journey
- 01:08:39is you know was really through the
- 01:08:40journal that i kept and the journal was
- 01:08:43um
- 01:08:44something that i'd kept since i was a
- 01:08:46little girl and so when i began when i
- 01:08:48sort of made that shift like i've got to
- 01:08:50try differently go back to pathology 101
- 01:08:54review inflammation
- 01:08:55okay what's my first step like this is
- 01:08:58going to be my experiment i'm an n of
- 01:09:00one i'm my own doctor i'm my own patient
- 01:09:02life is experiment
- 01:09:04step number one ask new questions um and
- 01:09:06so then you know number two i think was
- 01:09:08the resetting my inner clock right
- 01:09:11number three so i kind of um yeah i just
- 01:09:14build it step wise
- 01:09:16as i'm living through
- 01:09:18uh my healing journey so it's a how-to
- 01:09:21but it's sort of
- 01:09:22it's an organic i mean it's really
- 01:09:24beautiful it's simple like how do you
- 01:09:25set your rhythm how do you sleep
- 01:09:27yes how do you give yourself permission
- 01:09:29to receive and how people help you right
- 01:09:31right right which was yeah it was really
- 01:09:34challenging
- 01:09:35um because you know i stopped driving
- 01:09:37for
- 01:09:38quite a while
- 01:09:39and
- 01:09:40yeah most people were just like oh my
- 01:09:41god that's just horrible you know like
- 01:09:43how do you get a you know you can't even
- 01:09:44get around
- 01:09:46and you know what i started thinking
- 01:09:48about like who can i carpool with who
- 01:09:50can get a rifle it ended up being a
- 01:09:52strange
- 01:09:53community building yeah experience
- 01:09:56and we can do it ourselves i can do it
- 01:09:57myself right and then i realized also i
- 01:09:59don't have to live my life so fast right
- 01:10:01i can slow things down i can wait for a
- 01:10:04carpool
- 01:10:05um
- 01:10:06so there's a lot of things i think that
- 01:10:09happen with healing like for instance a
- 01:10:11diet i might prescribe a diet that's
- 01:10:13that's healing for myself or my family
- 01:10:15or my patients
- 01:10:17and maybe it's less about the diet per
- 01:10:19se than just getting them to connect to
- 01:10:21their food right right getting them to
- 01:10:23connect to their bodies and they're
- 01:10:24paying attention and they're treating
- 01:10:26themselves with love like so how much is
- 01:10:28that right um beautiful yeah yeah get a
- 01:10:31daily dose of nature detoxify your house
- 01:10:33and yourself
- 01:10:35and it's really well laid out and very
- 01:10:37simple it's almost like you've taken all
- 01:10:39the concepts of functional medicine and
- 01:10:41traditional chinese medicine and
- 01:10:43everything you know about healing and
- 01:10:44integrative medicine put into really
- 01:10:46very practical
- 01:10:47things and some of them are kind of
- 01:10:49strange like
- 01:10:50let your intuition tell your thinking
- 01:10:52mind where to look next right so
- 01:10:54now that's a that's a quote from that i
- 01:10:56took from um
- 01:10:58uh jonas salk right one of the inventor
- 01:11:00of one of the polio vaccines
- 01:11:02and that was another thing that was um
- 01:11:05was
- 01:11:07sort of reassuring to me when i when
- 01:11:09sometimes i thought well i'm getting too
- 01:11:10woo-woo out there but really looking at
- 01:11:13scientists you know forefathers of
- 01:11:16modern medicine
- 01:11:18who
- 01:11:19were
- 01:11:20they they let their intuition sort of
- 01:11:23guide their discoveries
- 01:11:24so i was like oh
- 01:11:26again it's not woo why are we calling it
- 01:11:29it's actually very human yeah we've just
- 01:11:31forgotten it in our culture and there's
- 01:11:33so many other great things here like
- 01:11:35heal your gut and the basics of a 30-day
- 01:11:37diet reset which is super important
- 01:11:40because diet drives so much disease as
- 01:11:42people know yes and breaking old habits
- 01:11:44and just
- 01:11:45having pleasure and looking for root
- 01:11:47causes i mean surviving love and loss
- 01:11:50really really fantastic claiming
- 01:11:52thank you finding your story i mean
- 01:11:53these are just
- 01:11:54real nuggets of wisdom around healing
- 01:11:57that
- 01:11:57you've really come to the hard way
- 01:12:02and uh practicing pleasure
- 01:12:04is my favorite prescription that's a
- 01:12:05good idea it's amazing how many patients
- 01:12:07won't do that unless a doctor prescribes
- 01:12:09it to them yeah it's really true i think
- 01:12:12we yeah we don't we don't prioritize fun
- 01:12:14and play and joy and right it's so great
- 01:12:17well you you just have shared such a
- 01:12:19wonderful story about
- 01:12:22how sick you could be
- 01:12:25how sick we get and how much illness
- 01:12:27there is and your own road out of it
- 01:12:30um i think it's inspiring for so many
- 01:12:32people and i i think i really
- 01:12:34feel like that's really why you do what
- 01:12:36you do it's why i do what i do it's why
- 01:12:38we spend time
- 01:12:39teaching and sharing because there are
- 01:12:41so many people who suffer unnecessarily
- 01:12:44who suffered needlessly and there is a
- 01:12:46way forward so thank you for sharing
- 01:12:48that thank you so much for um having me
- 01:12:50and yeah i would just you know this this
- 01:12:53taboo about doctors not disclosing their
- 01:12:55health problems um
- 01:12:58yeah it's um
- 01:13:00there are a lot of doctors suffering out
- 01:13:01there too it's so true yeah i think you
- 01:13:04know my advice to doctors listening is
- 01:13:06to tell your story share with your
- 01:13:07patients absolutely don't have this you
- 01:13:09know doctor-patient relationship which
- 01:13:11is
- 01:13:12sort of very distant and estranged
- 01:13:15be be a human let them know who you are
- 01:13:18and right that always works
- 01:13:20right it builds a relationship it helps
- 01:13:22them know that you've suffered through
- 01:13:24it and right i mean even if you haven't
- 01:13:25suffered you can share something
- 01:13:27so absolutely thank you for sharing your
- 01:13:29story and everybody should get brave new
- 01:13:31medicine a doctor's unconventional path
- 01:13:33to healing her autoimmune illness it's
- 01:13:36been out since september 1st 2019.
- 01:13:38it's a wonderful story very inspiring
- 01:13:40and very practical
- 01:13:41um so thank you for joining us
- 01:13:43absolutely thank you and you've been
- 01:13:45listening to the doctor's pharmacy this
- 01:13:46is dr mark hyman if you love the show
- 01:13:48please leave a comment please share with
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- 01:13:58and we'll see you next time on the
- 01:13:59doctor's pharmacy
- 01:14:01[Music]
- 01:14:04hi everyone it's dr mark hyman so two
- 01:14:07quick things number one thanks so much
- 01:14:09for listening to this week's podcast it
- 01:14:11really means a lot to me if you love the
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- 01:14:18second i want to tell you about a brand
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- 01:15:01today
- Chronic illness
- Functional medicine
- Integrative medicine
- Thyroid disease
- Chronic fatigue
- Healing journey
- Alternative medicine
- Holistic health
- Dr. Mark Hyman
- Dr. Cynthia Lee