What Stress, Burnout, And Hustle Culture Do To Your Body | Bryan Johnson Podcast

00:52:13
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tv875KnuuMg

Summary

TLDRCe podcast explore la culture du martyr dans le monde moderne, où les individus croient qu'ils doivent sacrifier leur santé pour réussir. Les intervenants, dont des entrepreneurs et des professionnels de la santé, partagent leurs expériences et des données sur les effets néfastes du surmenage, tels que l'augmentation des risques de maladies cardiaques et de burnout. Ils soulignent l'importance de prioriser la santé pour améliorer la performance et le bien-être général. Des conseils pratiques sont offerts pour établir des routines saines et créer un équilibre entre vie professionnelle et personnelle, tout en remettant en question les normes culturelles qui valorisent le sacrifice de soi.

Takeaways

  • 💡 Prioriser sa santé est essentiel pour réussir.
  • 📉 Le surmenage augmente le risque de maladies graves.
  • 🛌 Établir des routines de sommeil est crucial.
  • 🤝 Les relations personnelles souffrent du surmenage.
  • 📊 Les statistiques montrent les dangers du burnout.
  • 🏋️‍♂️ L'exercice régulier améliore la productivité.
  • 🍏 Une bonne nutrition est liée à de meilleures performances.
  • 🚫 Éviter les voyages fréquents pour préserver la santé.
  • 🗣️ Encourager un dialogue ouvert sur la santé au travail.
  • 🌍 La culture moderne doit valoriser la santé avant le succès.

Timeline

  • 00:00:00 - 00:05:00

    Les gens sont de plus en plus passionnés par la culture moderne, souvent au détriment de leur santé, cherchant le statut et la richesse à tout prix. Cette quête peut mener à une forme de martyrisation de soi-même, où la santé est sacrifiée pour le succès.

  • 00:05:00 - 00:10:00

    Aujourd'hui, nous allons aborder la culture du martyr déguisée en culture héroïque. Il est possible d'atteindre le succès sans sacrifier sa santé, et nous allons démontrer que prioriser sa santé peut mener à de meilleurs résultats en matière de succès et de bonheur.

  • 00:10:00 - 00:15:00

    Le mythe selon lequel il faut sacrifier sa santé pour réussir est profondément ancré dans notre culture. Nous allons explorer pourquoi cette idée est erronée et comment revenir à un état de santé optimal.

  • 00:15:00 - 00:20:00

    L'expérience de Brian, qui a vendu sa société pour 800 millions, montre qu'il aurait pu être encore plus prospère s'il avait priorisé sa santé. Sacrifier sa santé pour le succès professionnel est une erreur commune.

  • 00:20:00 - 00:25:00

    Les attentes dans le monde des affaires et de la médecine poussent souvent les individus à négliger leur santé. Les systèmes en place encouragent un comportement qui nuit à la santé personnelle et professionnelle.

  • 00:25:00 - 00:30:00

    La culture du travail moderne valorise le surmenage, ce qui nuit à la santé individuelle et à celle des entreprises. Les jeunes professionnels ressentent cette pression, mais il est crucial de reconnaître les effets néfastes de cette culture.

  • 00:30:00 - 00:35:00

    Les médecins et les entrepreneurs partagent des expériences similaires de sacrifice de leur santé pour réussir. Les attentes de performance dans ces domaines sont souvent démesurées et négligent le bien-être personnel.

  • 00:35:00 - 00:40:00

    Des études montrent que le surmenage augmente considérablement le risque de maladies cardiaques et d'autres problèmes de santé. Travailler plus de 55 heures par semaine est lié à des taux de mortalité plus élevés.

  • 00:40:00 - 00:45:00

    Il est essentiel de reconnaître que sacrifier sa santé pour le succès professionnel est une illusion. Les décisions prises sous pression peuvent nuire à la performance et à la qualité de vie.

  • 00:45:00 - 00:52:13

    Pour améliorer la santé et la performance, il est crucial de créer des systèmes de soutien qui priorisent le bien-être, comme établir des routines de sommeil et d'exercice, et éviter le surmenage.

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Mind Map

Video Q&A

  • Qu'est-ce que la culture du martyr ?

    C'est l'idée que l'on doit sacrifier sa santé pour réussir professionnellement.

  • Quels sont les effets du surmenage sur la santé ?

    Le surmenage augmente le risque de maladies cardiaques, de diabète et nuit aux relations personnelles.

  • Comment prioriser sa santé tout en réussissant ?

    En établissant des routines de sommeil, d'exercice et de nutrition, et en fixant des limites claires.

  • Pourquoi la culture moderne valorise-t-elle le surmenage ?

    Elle valorise le succès, le statut et la richesse, souvent au détriment de la santé.

  • Quels conseils donneriez-vous pour éviter le burnout ?

    Établir des non-négociables pour le sommeil, l'exercice et la nutrition.

  • Comment la santé influence-t-elle la performance professionnelle ?

    Une meilleure santé conduit à une meilleure productivité, des décisions plus judicieuses et des relations plus saines.

  • Quelles sont les statistiques sur le surmenage ?

    Le burnout augmente le risque de crise cardiaque de 78% et les travailleurs de plus de 55 heures par semaine ont un risque accru de décès.

  • Comment la culture du martyr affecte-t-elle les jeunes professionnels ?

    Elle crée une pression pour sacrifier leur bien-être au profit de la réussite.

  • Quels changements culturels sont nécessaires ?

    Il faut valoriser la santé comme une priorité pour réussir, plutôt que de sacrifier son bien-être.

  • Comment aborder la conversation sur la santé au travail ?

    Encourager un dialogue ouvert sur l'importance de la santé et des limites personnelles.

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  • 00:00:00
    People are equally, if not more zealous
  • 00:00:06
    about this modern culture than people
  • 00:00:08
    were in previous religious cultures
  • 00:00:11
    where the prize they have to win is so
  • 00:00:14
    intensely identified, right, the status,
  • 00:00:16
    power, wealth, that they're literally
  • 00:00:20
    willing to themselves even in a slow mo
  • 00:00:22
    fashion to achieve that prize. It's just
  • 00:00:25
    like people are transfixed in a
  • 00:00:27
    zombie-like fashion. They don't have
  • 00:00:31
    control over themselves.
  • 00:00:31
    Hi friends. Today we're going to talk
  • 00:00:36
    about martyrdom culture that we
  • 00:00:38
    masquerade as hero culture. Now I get
  • 00:00:41
    it. You are ambitious. You are smart.
  • 00:00:43
    You're talented. You have big dreams for
  • 00:00:46
    life. You want to be rich and powerful
  • 00:00:48
    and have high status. Those are all
  • 00:00:51
    things everybody wants. Also, there is a
  • 00:00:53
    way to go about doing it that does not
  • 00:00:56
    require you to martyr your health. A lot
  • 00:00:58
    of people have this bad idea in their
  • 00:01:00
    mind that if they compromise their
  • 00:01:01
    health that somehow it will help them
  • 00:01:04
    achieve better success. Today we're
  • 00:01:05
    going to highlight the evidence that
  • 00:01:08
    shows that is a bad idea. You can in
  • 00:01:09
    fact prioritize your health and achieve
  • 00:01:12
    better outcomes in your success,
  • 00:01:14
    happiness, and status. Let's go. You
  • 00:01:15
    know, I've always wondered like what if
  • 00:01:17
    a branch started growing out of my head?
  • 00:01:18
    Like it was like
  • 00:01:20
    two nights ago I had this dream. I would
  • 00:01:22
    turn and there'd be like a root growing
  • 00:01:24
    out of my skin in the middle of nowhere.
  • 00:01:26
    It was like
  • 00:01:27
    it's terrifying.
  • 00:01:28
    At some point, do you like start
  • 00:01:29
    creating little seedlings and like
  • 00:01:31
    dropping little Brians all over the
  • 00:01:33
    place?
  • 00:01:35
    Like plant them in the yard. This true
  • 00:01:36
    fusion. Like we think about merging with
  • 00:01:36
    AI.
  • 00:01:38
    It becomes this nightmare situation
  • 00:01:40
    where you can't get away from these
  • 00:01:42
    needy seedlings.
  • 00:01:43
    And all all night long there's like
  • 00:01:47
    Brian, Brian, shut up. I'm swear I'm
  • 00:01:49
    going to cut you down. You got to be
  • 00:01:50
    quiet. What's happening?
  • 00:01:52
    Oh my god.
  • 00:01:53
    Are we ready?
  • 00:01:55
    Yes. Today we're going to talk about one
  • 00:01:57
    of the biggest myths of modern life and
  • 00:01:59
    that's the idea that you need to martyr
  • 00:02:01
    your health in order to be successful.
  • 00:02:04
    This has been so ingrained into the
  • 00:02:06
    psyche of people who want epic
  • 00:02:07
    professional success. We're going to get
  • 00:02:10
    to the bottom of why this silly myth of
  • 00:02:13
    martyrdom has made itself a mainstay in
  • 00:02:15
    our culture and why it's wrong and how
  • 00:02:17
    you can make the corrective actions to
  • 00:02:19
    get yourself back to peak health and
  • 00:02:22
    peak performance. So you you're coming
  • 00:02:25
    from the other side too, like you were
  • 00:02:28
    you're a convert in this new wave of
  • 00:02:30
    like looking after your health. So a lot
  • 00:02:32
    of people a they don't realize that you
  • 00:02:34
    built Brainree Benmo, sold it to PayPal
  • 00:02:37
    for eBay for 800 million and so made a
  • 00:02:41
    [ __ ] ton of money. And people hear that
  • 00:02:43
    story and they think, "Wow, Brian, you
  • 00:02:44
    are only doing what you're doing now
  • 00:02:46
    because you had access to money and
  • 00:02:47
    there's no way you could have been that
  • 00:02:49
    successful." And recently, for the first
  • 00:02:50
    time, I heard you say that you think
  • 00:02:52
    that you would have made more money had
  • 00:02:55
    you been sleeping better. Is that right?
  • 00:02:57
    Unquestionably, I would have made more
  • 00:02:59
    money and been more successful had I
  • 00:03:01
    made health my top priority.
  • 00:03:03
    Can you like talk because I think a lot
  • 00:03:04
    of people don't realize a lot of people
  • 00:03:05
    aren't in the startup world. They're not
  • 00:03:07
    building businesses. So you're
  • 00:03:10
    specifically from what I understand you
  • 00:03:14
    sold the company at a point where it hit
  • 00:03:17
    a certain valuation but really primarily
  • 00:03:19
    because you couldn't go on any longer.
  • 00:03:22
    So the truth of the matter is that
  • 00:03:25
    nobody is going to achieve peak success
  • 00:03:28
    when your health is in a bad spot. And
  • 00:03:30
    that is true for me and there's actually
  • 00:03:32
    two of us in the call today on the
  • 00:03:34
    podcast today that have gone through the
  • 00:03:36
    same experience. Dr. Allen also went
  • 00:03:38
    through the same trajectory as me, I
  • 00:03:40
    think. Is that right, Dr. Mike? With uh
  • 00:03:42
    emergency medicine
  • 00:03:46
    to some extent. Yeah. I mean, um do you
  • 00:03:47
    mean like
  • 00:03:50
    uh are we using the B- word burnout?
  • 00:03:50
    Like
  • 00:03:51
    Yeah.
  • 00:03:52
    Oh, wow.
  • 00:03:54
    Yeah, for sure. For sure.
  • 00:03:56
    I mean, basically as well. Is it fair to
  • 00:03:59
    say you and I were both introduced to a
  • 00:04:04
    culture that sacrificed health for some
  • 00:04:08
    kind of professional idea of success?
  • 00:04:11
    Yeah, I would say a professional ideal
  • 00:04:15
    like it an expectation of how you behave
  • 00:04:17
    in that profession. And I think both of
  • 00:04:22
    us were um uh subject to that maybe even
  • 00:04:23
    without even realizing it for a while.
  • 00:04:25
    At least I was personally
  • 00:04:27
    that's exactly what I would identify is
  • 00:04:30
    that the systems that said hey we're
  • 00:04:33
    going to tell you to behave like this
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    like you know sleep like this eat like
  • 00:04:39
    this look like this be like this not
  • 00:04:41
    because the data says it's the best for
  • 00:04:43
    you or because it produces the best
  • 00:04:45
    outcomes do these things because the
  • 00:04:47
    system designed by we don't even know
  • 00:04:49
    who
  • 00:04:50
    says to do these things and so I know
  • 00:04:52
    for me in it's very true in in
  • 00:04:55
    entrepreneurship ship culture. You are
  • 00:04:58
    expected to sacrifice your health. So
  • 00:05:02
    there's no amount of travel is too much.
  • 00:05:04
    There's no amount of sleep is too
  • 00:05:06
    little. There's, you know, you can
  • 00:05:08
    sacrifice your your exercise routines.
  • 00:05:11
    You would eat junk food so long as your
  • 00:05:14
    revenue is climbing, your employee count
  • 00:05:16
    is increasing, you know, and you're
  • 00:05:18
    raising more money. And so it just
  • 00:05:21
    really is a a spectacular failure of our
  • 00:05:24
    societal systems that have us do these
  • 00:05:26
    things that are extremely detrimental to
  • 00:05:28
    our individual health, our company's
  • 00:05:31
    health, and everybody around us. And I
  • 00:05:33
    think it's so silly that we have bought
  • 00:05:35
    into these notions. So I say, you know,
  • 00:05:37
    it's relevant here that I did this as an
  • 00:05:39
    entrepreneur, Mike did this in the in
  • 00:05:41
    the medical world. So it's not just like
  • 00:05:43
    one industry. Kate, you're in a for a
  • 00:05:46
    fortunate situation where I mean, you
  • 00:05:50
    tell me, but you're 29 years old and so,
  • 00:05:51
    you know, I guess I'm curious on what
  • 00:05:53
    your experience has been in terms of the
  • 00:05:55
    the systems that you were introduced to
  • 00:05:57
    in the world and how success was framed
  • 00:05:59
    to you. But, uh, let me jump to Mike
  • 00:06:02
    first, like Mike, would you say your
  • 00:06:03
    experience was similar to mine in terms
  • 00:06:05
    of what the system told you to do and
  • 00:06:08
    what it rewarded you to do? Yeah, I mean
  • 00:06:11
    in the sense that I got exposed to in
  • 00:06:14
    medicine a world where physicians are
  • 00:06:16
    expected to just crush themselves. I
  • 00:06:18
    mean it starts immediately from medical
  • 00:06:19
    school. So like you know I thought
  • 00:06:21
    undergrad was hard. you know, I did
  • 00:06:23
    chemical engineering undergrad and like
  • 00:06:25
    worked really hard and then then I
  • 00:06:27
    started medical school and was just
  • 00:06:31
    blown away by the expectations placed on
  • 00:06:32
    medical students in terms of like how
  • 00:06:34
    hard they had to study and then that
  • 00:06:36
    compounded within residency and then
  • 00:06:38
    professional life and it's just like a
  • 00:06:39
    step-wise function of increasing
  • 00:06:42
    expectations and a lack of focus on like
  • 00:06:45
    personal health. like you never get
  • 00:06:48
    taught how to be healthy and also be a
  • 00:06:50
    professional in medicine at the same
  • 00:06:53
    time. And it was just expected. Like
  • 00:06:54
    there was no like there's no
  • 00:06:56
    conversation. There was no like me
  • 00:06:57
    sitting down in a medical school
  • 00:06:58
    interview and then being like, "Hey, are
  • 00:06:59
    you ready to sacrifice your health and
  • 00:07:01
    your longevity for this this
  • 00:07:03
    profession?" Like nobody ever asked me
  • 00:07:05
    that, right? It's just like, "Oh, being
  • 00:07:06
    a doctor sounds great. You know, I want
  • 00:07:08
    to help people." And then next thing you
  • 00:07:09
    know, it's like, "I want to sacrifice my
  • 00:07:12
    own health to help people." And that was
  • 00:07:14
    never explicitly said to me. And I don't
  • 00:07:16
    think I the same is true as an
  • 00:07:17
    entrepreneur. I think
  • 00:07:19
    is it clear I think I saw this stat
  • 00:07:22
    correct me if I'm wrong in terms of life
  • 00:07:24
    expectancy for medical professionals
  • 00:07:27
    that emergency med doctors had the
  • 00:07:30
    lowest I think it was like 59 or
  • 00:07:30
    something like that.
  • 00:07:33
    It's crazy low. It's very low.
  • 00:07:34
    I mean had I known that I never would
  • 00:07:36
    have gone into emergency medicine. You
  • 00:07:38
    know, it's like somebody can't sell you
  • 00:07:39
    on a career when they're like, "Hey, you
  • 00:07:41
    know, by the way, you're probably going
  • 00:07:42
    to die about 15 years younger than the
  • 00:07:45
    average human." Cool, right? No. No
  • 00:07:46
    thanks.
  • 00:07:48
    Mike, you you were saying also something
  • 00:07:50
    else about uh this being applicable not
  • 00:07:53
    just to the medical world or
  • 00:07:54
    entrepreneurship world, but
  • 00:07:56
    yeah, I don't think this is just unique
  • 00:07:59
    to medicine or the world of
  • 00:08:01
    entrepreneurship. I think that this is
  • 00:08:03
    pretty much every professional career
  • 00:08:05
    and almost like a societal level
  • 00:08:09
    expectation that we crush ourselves uh
  • 00:08:12
    for the benefit of our I don't even know
  • 00:08:15
    what we're benefiting like theoretically
  • 00:08:16
    I think there's some this theoretical
  • 00:08:17
    benefit that you have to crush yourself
  • 00:08:19
    in order to be successful in life or in
  • 00:08:22
    order to like you know do good for
  • 00:08:25
    mankind or or humankind but I but I
  • 00:08:27
    don't think I think it's misguided.
  • 00:08:29
    Yeah. You know, I could not agree with
  • 00:08:32
    you more. I I think that in our global
  • 00:08:35
    system that
  • 00:08:38
    we are pawns
  • 00:08:42
    for the system and we are disposable for
  • 00:08:45
    the system's progress. But the insanity
  • 00:08:48
    this moment is the system is the
  • 00:08:50
    priority of the species and we are
  • 00:08:52
    disposable.
  • 00:08:55
    And we we compensate for that situation
  • 00:08:59
    by trying to give ourselves trophies for
  • 00:09:01
    success you know power wealth status but
  • 00:09:04
    it's a giant cope for the fact that we
  • 00:09:07
    are martyrs for system bigger than
  • 00:09:08
    ourselves and I think the opportunity
  • 00:09:11
    here is to shift it to say we no long
  • 00:09:13
    and this is like you when you when death
  • 00:09:16
    is inevitable that's kind of the only
  • 00:09:18
    thing you can do to cope or you can like
  • 00:09:20
    you know identify an afterlife and be
  • 00:09:22
    like actually there's a bigger system at
  • 00:09:23
    play here and we're going to triumph
  • 00:09:26
    over the system. But in practical terms,
  • 00:09:28
    this is why I I think that what we're
  • 00:09:30
    doing is don't die is correct that when
  • 00:09:32
    existence itself becomes the priority,
  • 00:09:34
    we are no longer pawns and will be
  • 00:09:36
    arbitrageed in, you know, for the
  • 00:09:38
    systems winning and but so it's like
  • 00:09:41
    such a big concept, but we play these
  • 00:09:44
    micro games of the modern to try to earn
  • 00:09:46
    our own status, power, respect within
  • 00:09:48
    the the circles we run. Kate, what's
  • 00:09:50
    been your your I mean, you're 29 years
  • 00:09:52
    old. What's been your life experience in
  • 00:09:54
    terms of the culture that you walk into
  • 00:09:56
    as a professional and what pressures do
  • 00:09:58
    you feel?
  • 00:10:01
    Yeah, I mean um being in the startup
  • 00:10:02
    community in New York, like you
  • 00:10:04
    definitely feel the pressure to say,
  • 00:10:06
    "Hey, I've been working so hard. I've
  • 00:10:09
    been staying up all night working on
  • 00:10:11
    this project." And then it's funny. I
  • 00:10:13
    think in the fashion industry, there's a
  • 00:10:15
    little bit more of a social pressure to
  • 00:10:18
    go out, have drinks, connect with
  • 00:10:20
    people. smoking is a little bit more
  • 00:10:22
    prevalent in that community. So there's
  • 00:10:24
    a little bit more of like this like cool
  • 00:10:27
    person debaucherous behavior in the
  • 00:10:28
    fashion community. So I think it's
  • 00:10:31
    interesting like being in both worlds of
  • 00:10:34
    startup and fashion back in the day. Um
  • 00:10:36
    but yeah, I totally agree like we if you
  • 00:10:37
    like really step back and look at it
  • 00:10:40
    soberly, it's it's not a good situation.
  • 00:10:42
    in my conversation with uh I primarily
  • 00:10:45
    speak to founders and when they're going
  • 00:10:47
    through this process and I can tell when
  • 00:10:50
    I enter this conversation and I try to
  • 00:10:53
    persuade them hey like let's just start
  • 00:10:56
    with some baseline observations
  • 00:10:58
    you do not want to write inefficient
  • 00:11:00
    code right like your goal is to write
  • 00:11:03
    efficient code your goal is to run
  • 00:11:05
    efficient hardware you don't want sloppy
  • 00:11:07
    hardware you don't want sloppy software
  • 00:11:10
    you want efficient systems
  • 00:11:12
    You are software and hardware and you do
  • 00:11:15
    not want to run sloppy software hardware
  • 00:11:17
    on yourself and that's what happens when
  • 00:11:19
    you don't make healthier top priority.
  • 00:11:20
    Now like in those basic terms like they
  • 00:11:24
    get it but then when they see themselves
  • 00:11:26
    uh competing against other people who
  • 00:11:28
    are willing to monitor themselves they
  • 00:11:29
    feel like they're going to fall behind
  • 00:11:32
    if they don't do it. So they don't take
  • 00:11:34
    the same number of international trips
  • 00:11:37
    if they're not you know uh sleeping 3 to
  • 00:11:38
    four hours a night. they're not working
  • 00:11:39
    that many hours in the day, even if
  • 00:11:40
    they're not productive, like it's the
  • 00:11:42
    perception that they're falling behind.
  • 00:11:45
    But I have found it is incredibly hard
  • 00:11:49
    to get people to feel comfortable they
  • 00:11:53
    can safely prioritize their health and
  • 00:11:55
    not fall behind. And they just won't let
  • 00:11:57
    it go. They're so attached to this
  • 00:11:59
    ideology just like it's almost like
  • 00:12:01
    hanging from the monkey bars. Like you
  • 00:12:03
    you just can't like you feel like you if
  • 00:12:04
    you let go
  • 00:12:05
    there's there's no safety net. You're
  • 00:12:07
    not going to be caught. What do you guys
  • 00:12:07
    think that's about?
  • 00:12:09
    Do you think that they believe in the
  • 00:12:11
    first place that this is bad for them? I
  • 00:12:13
    mean, I the first question, right? Like,
  • 00:12:15
    do they even believe us?
  • 00:12:17
    So, I would like to hypothesize that the
  • 00:12:18
    person sitting on the other side
  • 00:12:20
    listening to us right now is part of
  • 00:12:23
    hustle culture and may not realize a
  • 00:12:25
    that they're part of hustle culture and
  • 00:12:27
    b that it's impacting their health. So I
  • 00:12:30
    would love to go through like what it
  • 00:12:33
    means, what happens to the individual
  • 00:12:34
    when they are a porn in the system,
  • 00:12:35
    assuming that we believe that for a
  • 00:12:37
    second. What happens when you don't get
  • 00:12:39
    enough sleep? What happens when you um
  • 00:12:41
    are burnt out? The b word. And then once
  • 00:12:43
    we So then once you once everyone's
  • 00:12:45
    agreed upon those terms, Brian, that's
  • 00:12:47
    when all of that angst kicks up because
  • 00:12:49
    then you come face to face with like,
  • 00:12:50
    wait, do I need to make a decision
  • 00:12:53
    between myself and my company? And we
  • 00:12:54
    can untangle that, too.
  • 00:12:56
    Okay, cool. All right, let's jump into
  • 00:12:58
    the evidence. We have a bunch of
  • 00:13:01
    evidence prepared. Let's go over it and
  • 00:13:03
    let's see what effect
  • 00:13:05
    uh hustle I mean I don't know if I even
  • 00:13:06
    want to call it hustle culture because
  • 00:13:10
    hustling is a good thing. So like
  • 00:13:12
    is there a word we can use that it's
  • 00:13:16
    like almost um destructive
  • 00:13:16
    because people
  • 00:13:19
    it's just work culture. It's just
  • 00:13:21
    current work culture.
  • 00:13:22
    Work is a positive word. We needed
  • 00:13:25
    something that captures that it's an
  • 00:13:27
    illusion
  • 00:13:28
    like you.
  • 00:13:32
    Oh, it's like um ma modern culture.
  • 00:13:34
    Yeah, but it's modern culture
  • 00:13:36
    masquerading as hero culture,
  • 00:13:37
    right?
  • 00:13:38
    All right, let's go through the
  • 00:13:38
    evidence. We'll come back on the
  • 00:13:40
    mimemetics. It's going to happen. It's
  • 00:13:41
    coming.
  • 00:13:42
    Yeah, it's coming.
  • 00:13:44
    Okay, Mike, do you want to start us off
  • 00:13:46
    with some of the evidence we put
  • 00:13:48
    together as we evaluated this topic?
  • 00:13:50
    Yeah. So, as we went through this, I
  • 00:13:52
    think there's like three or four
  • 00:13:54
    statements that we can make around the
  • 00:13:57
    evidence um with regard to this type of
  • 00:13:58
    culture whose word we haven't identified
  • 00:14:01
    what it is yet. But basically, one
  • 00:14:04
    overwork will kill you. Two, working too
  • 00:14:07
    much destroys your relationships. Three,
  • 00:14:09
    all-nighters and sleep disruption causes
  • 00:14:12
    heart disease and diabetes. And four,
  • 00:14:14
    sleep disruption and overwork makes you
  • 00:14:16
    a bad leader. So, let's let's break
  • 00:14:18
    those down. So overwork will kill you.
  • 00:14:20
    This has been well studied. There was a
  • 00:14:22
    meta analysis in 2022 that basically
  • 00:14:24
    came to the conclusion that burnout
  • 00:14:27
    increases heart attack risk by 78%. Let
  • 00:14:29
    that seep in for a second. Like burnout
  • 00:14:32
    increases heart attack risk by 78%.
  • 00:14:34
    That's huge. That's more than like most
  • 00:14:36
    of the things that we talk about when
  • 00:14:37
    we're talking about like taking supp
  • 00:14:40
    certain supplements or exercising or
  • 00:14:42
    like all of these things have fairly
  • 00:14:44
    minimal in uh changes to your actual
  • 00:14:47
    risk. 78% is is massive. And then there
  • 00:14:49
    was another study that showed the amount
  • 00:14:51
    of work, so working beyond 55 hours per
  • 00:14:54
    week, was led to about 800,000 deaths
  • 00:14:57
    from stroke and heart disease in 2016.
  • 00:14:59
    And that those people who worked greater
  • 00:15:03
    than 55 hours per week had a 35% higher
  • 00:15:06
    risk of stroke and a 17% higher risk of
  • 00:15:09
    death from heart attack. So, we know
  • 00:15:11
    without a shadow of a doubt that working
  • 00:15:13
    too much, whether that's just the sense
  • 00:15:15
    of the b- word burnout or if it's just
  • 00:15:16
    the number of hours you're putting in a
  • 00:15:18
    week actually has a direct impact on
  • 00:15:21
    your your livelihood and how long you're
  • 00:15:22
    going to live.
  • 00:15:24
    So, Mike, in that let me let me be the
  • 00:15:25
    devil's advocate in this. Okay, I just I
  • 00:15:28
    just heard what you said and um I'm
  • 00:15:30
    thinking, you know what, Mike, I get it.
  • 00:15:33
    I'm not really interested in living, you
  • 00:15:36
    know, 80 years of life. I'm okay to
  • 00:15:38
    trade off my last 10 years of life so I
  • 00:15:41
    can be epic in my 20s, make a ton of
  • 00:15:43
    money, and then I can just reverse the
  • 00:15:45
    damage I did in my 20s, I can do it in
  • 00:15:47
    my 30s and 40s. So, I'm willing to to
  • 00:15:49
    take this gamble and make the trade-off.
  • 00:15:51
    Can you what's what's your argument
  • 00:15:52
    there?
  • 00:15:55
    Well, so first first off, it there's a
  • 00:15:57
    difference between um making it up and
  • 00:16:00
    then just having like worse actual
  • 00:16:03
    livelihood or um life quality during the
  • 00:16:05
    years that you currently have. So the
  • 00:16:07
    the counterargument to what you just
  • 00:16:09
    suggested is that you're actually going
  • 00:16:12
    to see lower performance the harder
  • 00:16:13
    you're working. So when you're pushing
  • 00:16:15
    yourself, you're likely not sleeping as
  • 00:16:17
    much, right? You're likely not spending
  • 00:16:19
    as much time with family and friends.
  • 00:16:20
    You're hurting your social
  • 00:16:22
    relationships. you're not sleeping,
  • 00:16:23
    you're not eating appropriately, you're
  • 00:16:24
    not exercising. All those things
  • 00:16:28
    actually reduce your likelihood of um of
  • 00:16:30
    of performing at the highest possible
  • 00:16:32
    level. And this gets, I think, to what
  • 00:16:33
    you were talking about, Brian, in terms
  • 00:16:37
    of like you feel like um you could have
  • 00:16:39
    been even more successful than you were
  • 00:16:41
    had you been taking better care of
  • 00:16:43
    yourself. And the research actually
  • 00:16:45
    supports that statement. So, if we look
  • 00:16:48
    at, for example, relationships, working
  • 00:16:49
    too much destroys your relationships.
  • 00:16:50
    That was the second statement that that
  • 00:16:53
    we made. There was a um interesting uh
  • 00:16:55
    trial that was done in Belgium where
  • 00:16:57
    employees shifted to a 30-hour work week
  • 00:16:58
    and they actually found that they had
  • 00:17:01
    generally higher well-being, just a
  • 00:17:03
    sense of overall well-being. And that
  • 00:17:06
    that was mostly uh generated by lower
  • 00:17:09
    work and family conflict. And we've seen
  • 00:17:11
    this time and time again in research
  • 00:17:13
    studies where people who work more have
  • 00:17:14
    more trouble with their f in their
  • 00:17:16
    family life. they have more trouble in
  • 00:17:18
    their in their relationships and they
  • 00:17:21
    don't get as much uh general happiness
  • 00:17:24
    from their life because they're just
  • 00:17:26
    crushing themselves at work basically.
  • 00:17:28
    Yeah. Okay, cool. So my my initial
  • 00:17:32
    knee-jerk reaction to you would be uh
  • 00:17:34
    lacking in
  • 00:17:38
    awareness of the second and third and
  • 00:17:41
    fourth order consequences that if I
  • 00:17:43
    begin this process and I have some level
  • 00:17:46
    of health deterioration
  • 00:17:48
    that I am I'm thinking that it may only
  • 00:17:50
    affect end of life and or that I can
  • 00:17:52
    make it up in my 30s 40s. But what I'm
  • 00:17:54
    not accounting for are the other points
  • 00:17:56
    you laid out in the beginning to say
  • 00:17:59
    it's going to begin uh the its ruinous
  • 00:18:01
    effects on my relationships. It's going
  • 00:18:04
    to begin my ru it's going to begin uh
  • 00:18:07
    lessening I it's going to diminish my
  • 00:18:09
    abilities as a leader and it's going to
  • 00:18:10
    have all these other following
  • 00:18:13
    consequences. So my first reaction to
  • 00:18:16
    you is is totally inaccurate. That is
  • 00:18:18
    not the trade-off I'm making. It's a
  • 00:18:20
    much more sophisticated cascade of
  • 00:18:22
    consequences than I'm anticipating and I
  • 00:18:24
    haven't fully groed what it really
  • 00:18:25
    means. Is that fair?
  • 00:18:27
    Yeah, that's totally fair.
  • 00:18:29
    Yeah. And um specifically like there's a
  • 00:18:31
    couple other stats here. Sleep
  • 00:18:34
    restricted CEOs make 29% more risky
  • 00:18:36
    errors in lab simulations. So like
  • 00:18:38
    you're going to be a worse immediate
  • 00:18:40
    leader. So, the trade-off of short-term
  • 00:18:43
    to long-term falls flat when you're a
  • 00:18:47
    worse CEO, leader, builder,
  • 00:18:50
    er, medicine doctor. Um, and that fit
  • 00:18:52
    workers log two extra productive hours
  • 00:18:54
    per week. So, your productivity of
  • 00:18:56
    either your team or yourself also
  • 00:18:58
    increases with better health decisions
  • 00:19:00
    in the immediate term.
  • 00:19:02
    You also make better decisions. Like
  • 00:19:03
    that one study where they looked at
  • 00:19:05
    Israeli judges. I find this one super
  • 00:19:07
    impressive. So this was Israeli judges,
  • 00:19:09
    judges that are determining whether
  • 00:19:11
    someone should make parole or not. And
  • 00:19:12
    they found that in the morning when
  • 00:19:16
    they're most arrested that 65% of people
  • 00:19:19
    made parole, but right before lunch 0%
  • 00:19:22
    made parole. It's like the timing of day
  • 00:19:24
    actually turn and this has been this has
  • 00:19:26
    been shown in CEOs as well where not
  • 00:19:27
    only are you making worse decisions, but
  • 00:19:29
    you're actually like more pessimistic
  • 00:19:32
    and less charismatic when you're tired.
  • 00:19:34
    So there was a study looking at um at
  • 00:19:36
    leaders who were sleepd deprived and in
  • 00:19:38
    those sleep-d deprived leaders people
  • 00:19:40
    perceived them as being less charismatic
  • 00:19:43
    and they made poor decisions and did not
  • 00:19:45
    lead their team quite as well which is
  • 00:19:47
    like makes total sense when you think
  • 00:19:49
    about it right I mean how often have you
  • 00:19:50
    been sleepd deprived and then felt like
  • 00:19:52
    you had less energy people pick up on
  • 00:19:55
    that even if it's you know even if it's
  • 00:19:56
    subconscious they pick up on the fact
  • 00:19:57
    that you're not charismatic you're not
  • 00:20:00
    as understanding you're not as kind like
  • 00:20:02
    that stuff makes total sense
  • 00:20:04
    Quick detour here that in my personal
  • 00:20:06
    life with really close interpersonal
  • 00:20:09
    relationships, it it's become so obvious
  • 00:20:12
    to me now that I'm like observing myself
  • 00:20:14
    to have hard conversations before 5:00
  • 00:20:17
    p.m. If if it's 5:00 p.m., like you're
  • 00:20:20
    the chance of a hard conversation going
  • 00:20:23
    wrong is so much higher. So, just avoid
  • 00:20:24
    it now. Cuz like if we all have this
  • 00:20:26
    goal of working things out together,
  • 00:20:28
    then it doesn't make any sense to do
  • 00:20:30
    things after 5 p.m. that are difficult.
  • 00:20:32
    My wife Britney and I have this um had
  • 00:20:35
    this term when I was working er shifts
  • 00:20:38
    called night shifted where uh we would
  • 00:20:40
    specifically avoid difficult
  • 00:20:42
    conversations after I was coming off a
  • 00:20:43
    night shift.
  • 00:20:44
    Yeah. Because
  • 00:20:46
    100%. because and I I recognized this
  • 00:20:49
    too, but like um she picked up on the
  • 00:20:52
    fact that like I was just so quick to um
  • 00:20:54
    to cut her down or like say something
  • 00:20:57
    negative or be pessimistic or like just
  • 00:20:59
    be like aggro because I didn't get
  • 00:21:01
    enough sleep, right? So like we
  • 00:21:03
    literally named it and like changed
  • 00:21:05
    behavior around it. Like I remember this
  • 00:21:08
    one time I was coming off of uh this was
  • 00:21:10
    actually in residency um overshare for a
  • 00:21:12
    minute. So I was coming off of a an ICU
  • 00:21:14
    shift. It was one of those like 36-hour
  • 00:21:16
    shifts. So, like not only are you awake
  • 00:21:17
    like all throughout the night, but
  • 00:21:19
    you're also working like 36 hours
  • 00:21:21
    straight. And I was walking the dog.
  • 00:21:22
    Actually, I was running the dog. And
  • 00:21:25
    like this other dog came and started
  • 00:21:27
    like running with us. And like I
  • 00:21:28
    couldn't get it to go away. I was kind
  • 00:21:29
    of shoe it away, right? It was just me
  • 00:21:30
    and my dog running. I don't want this
  • 00:21:32
    dog bothering us. And it's like running
  • 00:21:33
    in and out of the street, runs in front
  • 00:21:35
    of this car. And this nice old lady
  • 00:21:37
    stops and she like says something to me
  • 00:21:39
    and I don't really hear her, but I infer
  • 00:21:40
    that she was saying something brood. And
  • 00:21:44
    I just start cussing her out. Oh my god.
  • 00:21:45
    Like
  • 00:21:48
    she looked at me like I was the like the
  • 00:21:50
    worst human in the world and just like
  • 00:21:52
    drove away. And then like after she left
  • 00:21:53
    I was like maybe she was trying to say
  • 00:21:56
    something kind.
  • 00:21:59
    I was so reactive and I was just I was
  • 00:22:00
    night shifted, man. That's like all
  • 00:22:02
    there was to it. But like it just like
  • 00:22:03
    it tells the story of like this
  • 00:22:05
    pessimism and this this lack of like
  • 00:22:07
    empathy that happens when we're when
  • 00:22:09
    we're sleep deprived. And I think a lot
  • 00:22:10
    of people don't even realize it.
  • 00:22:12
    Yeah. Mike, if you really wanted to burn
  • 00:22:14
    her, you'd be like, "You better hope
  • 00:22:16
    you're not in the ER."
  • 00:22:18
    Oh, man. I was like I was like, "F you,
  • 00:22:21
    you effing." I mean, it was bad. It was
  • 00:22:24
    like so not me. But like, that's what
  • 00:22:25
    happens.
  • 00:22:28
    Yeah. My in my first uh my previous
  • 00:22:31
    relationship, I I tried to make this
  • 00:22:33
    rule that, you know, like realizing that
  • 00:22:37
    when 6 or 7 p.m. Brian arrived, like it
  • 00:22:39
    was not a good situation for almost
  • 00:22:41
    anything. I getting the kids bathed,
  • 00:22:42
    fed, and put to bed was like the only
  • 00:22:45
    thing I could muster up. And so I tried
  • 00:22:48
    to introduce this concept, but uh my
  • 00:22:51
    partner at the time uh needed to do
  • 00:22:54
    emotional reconciliation. Like she felt
  • 00:22:55
    like it was a necessity of her
  • 00:22:58
    existence. And so she would break
  • 00:23:00
    protocol and I would just plead with her
  • 00:23:03
    like we can't like if we do this, it's
  • 00:23:04
    just going to go off the rails. It's
  • 00:23:06
    going to make things worse. And she
  • 00:23:08
    would persist. And so then it it was
  • 00:23:12
    just an absolute nightmare where I tried
  • 00:23:15
    to set the rules but then she needed to
  • 00:23:17
    like address this like she had needs as
  • 00:23:19
    well but it was just like this train
  • 00:23:20
    wreck of a situation.
  • 00:23:22
    Yeah. So um I've been on the other side
  • 00:23:23
    of that where I'm like we need to have
  • 00:23:25
    this conversation now like there's no
  • 00:23:27
    way right but that's the crazy thing is
  • 00:23:30
    that like consciousness makes you feel
  • 00:23:33
    like who you are in the moment is you.
  • 00:23:36
    And so until you can separate from that,
  • 00:23:38
    like you just don't realize it. And so
  • 00:23:40
    that's why it's so such a I feel so
  • 00:23:41
    liberated to be on the other side of
  • 00:23:44
    that now and be like, "Okay, absolutely
  • 00:23:48
    after 5:00 p.m. Kate is bad at having
  • 00:23:50
    emotional stability period. Any
  • 00:23:52
    emotional like even with team members
  • 00:23:54
    when I'm like going to have a hard
  • 00:23:56
    conversation, I'm like be careful when I
  • 00:23:58
    schedule it because I'm like I know I
  • 00:24:01
    need to be my best self." Um so I
  • 00:24:02
    empathize with that situation. I think
  • 00:24:05
    this conversation is like detangling
  • 00:24:08
    who we are at different time periods and
  • 00:24:10
    recognizing like when you are sleep.
  • 00:24:11
    It's like in the situation with Mike,
  • 00:24:14
    you could totally witness someone losing
  • 00:24:16
    their temper and be like, have they
  • 00:24:18
    slept recently? Like have empathy toward
  • 00:24:20
    those situations because it's just like
  • 00:24:21
    people don't realize what's good for
  • 00:24:22
    them.
  • 00:24:24
    Yeah. Okay. So, back to the evidence. So
  • 00:24:26
    far, we've covered that you have
  • 00:24:29
    dramatic increases in cardiovascular
  • 00:24:31
    risk profile. 78% uh increased
  • 00:24:34
    likelihood of heart attack. You're less
  • 00:24:36
    charismatic. Your personal relationships
  • 00:24:40
    become ruinous. Uh Kate, you mentioned
  • 00:24:43
    on uh lessened sleep quality, I think.
  • 00:24:44
    Oh, no. Mhm.
  • 00:24:46
    Yeah. What other evidence do we have
  • 00:24:48
    that suggests that this martyrdom
  • 00:24:52
    culture masquerading as hero culture is
  • 00:24:53
    bad for somebody?
  • 00:24:56
    Well, there's also the um the phys
  • 00:24:58
    physical fitness evidence. So the more
  • 00:25:00
    physically fit you are, the less sick
  • 00:25:03
    you are. So um there's pretty close
  • 00:25:06
    relationship between how um whether you
  • 00:25:09
    exercise, what percentile of fitness
  • 00:25:11
    you're in, and then how many days you
  • 00:25:13
    miss of work a year. So not just in
  • 00:25:15
    terms of like how well you perform, but
  • 00:25:17
    also are you even at work. So the top
  • 00:25:19
    25th percentile of physical fitness
  • 00:25:22
    misses on average about two days per
  • 00:25:24
    year, whereas the bottom 25 percentile
  • 00:25:26
    misses about six days per year. So
  • 00:25:28
    you're actually making an investment in
  • 00:25:30
    how much you're able to totally work by
  • 00:25:32
    be by being physically fit. So it goes
  • 00:25:36
    beyond just sleep gets into fitness and
  • 00:25:39
    then also into diet. So if we roll into
  • 00:25:42
    the diet realm, there's decisions around
  • 00:25:44
    what we eat and a lot of times this
  • 00:25:47
    martyrum culture makes poor decisions
  • 00:25:49
    around diet out of convenience. And what
  • 00:25:52
    we've seen is that cognitive performance
  • 00:25:54
    tracks almost directly with diet in
  • 00:25:56
    terms of the more convenient food that
  • 00:25:58
    you eat. And by convenient, I'm talking
  • 00:26:00
    about like ultrarocessed junk food,
  • 00:26:03
    quick food, fast food, things like that.
  • 00:26:06
    Basically, what every serving of of this
  • 00:26:08
    sort of food, ultrarocessed food that
  • 00:26:10
    you eat per day increases your risk of
  • 00:26:13
    dementia by about 13%. So, not only do
  • 00:26:14
    we see a long-term increased risk of
  • 00:26:17
    dementia, but we also see a change in
  • 00:26:18
    terms of your actual performance
  • 00:26:20
    dayto-day and your actual decisions that
  • 00:26:23
    you're making. So, it's fairly clear
  • 00:26:25
    that not just in terms of sleep and
  • 00:26:27
    exercise, but also diet, we're having
  • 00:26:29
    direct effects on our ability to perform
  • 00:26:31
    in these sorts of situations.
  • 00:26:34
    Do you think we've convinced them?
  • 00:26:36
    Probably not.
  • 00:26:38
    You almost have to live it. You know,
  • 00:26:39
    it's like one of those things where
  • 00:26:40
    like,
  • 00:26:41
    you know, there's some things like
  • 00:26:43
    people just have to experience before
  • 00:26:45
    they can really believe them. And I feel
  • 00:26:47
    this is like because it's so ingrained
  • 00:26:48
    in the culture and you see everybody
  • 00:26:50
    doing it. I feel like this might be one
  • 00:26:50
    of those.
  • 00:26:52
    Yeah, that was true.
  • 00:26:54
    It's also the case that the uh for most
  • 00:26:58
    people like I guess for a while religion
  • 00:27:01
    was a very motivating force. people
  • 00:27:03
    would do anything
  • 00:27:05
    to be compliant with their religious
  • 00:27:07
    obligations so they could receive the
  • 00:27:10
    afterlife reward. And people are
  • 00:27:13
    equally, if not more zealous about this
  • 00:27:16
    martyrdom culture than people were in
  • 00:27:18
    previous religious cultures where the
  • 00:27:23
    the prize they have to win is is so
  • 00:27:25
    intensely
  • 00:27:27
    um identified right the status power
  • 00:27:30
    wealth that they're literally willing to
  • 00:27:33
    suicide themselves even in a slow mo
  • 00:27:35
    fashion to achieve that prize. It's just
  • 00:27:38
    like people are transfixed
  • 00:27:40
    in a zombie-like fashion. They don't
  • 00:27:42
    have control over themselves. And that's
  • 00:27:43
    what it seems like to me is like when
  • 00:27:45
    I'm talking to somebody,
  • 00:27:46
    I think they can hear these stats of
  • 00:27:49
    like, you know, it's all like mumbled
  • 00:27:51
    like heart attack risk performance and
  • 00:27:54
    but it's like just background noise, but
  • 00:27:57
    they hear this triumphant anthem of the
  • 00:27:59
    victory of the man in the arena in the
  • 00:28:02
    arena, you know, framework. It's like
  • 00:28:03
    it's and so I I do in the same way that
  • 00:28:05
    I guess I I really have reflected a lot
  • 00:28:10
    on my own inability to like the dramatic
  • 00:28:13
    reduction of my self-control with 11
  • 00:28:16
    days of international travel I and and
  • 00:28:19
    basically feeling almost powerless to
  • 00:28:21
    actually make my own decisions because
  • 00:28:23
    my body is just destroyed. I'm now in
  • 00:28:26
    primitive brain land. I think in many
  • 00:28:28
    ways the people who are doing this are
  • 00:28:32
    in some way, shape or form in some kind
  • 00:28:35
    of deficient state of wisdom where they
  • 00:28:37
    cannot make good decisions on their own
  • 00:28:39
    behalf. It's a really weird
  • 00:28:41
    psychological phenomena. They just don't
  • 00:28:42
    they don't want to recognize it. They
  • 00:28:44
    don't want to square with it andor they
  • 00:28:46
    see it and they're rationally just
  • 00:28:47
    saying it's the trade-off is worth it to
  • 00:28:49
    me. I'd rather just play modern culture
  • 00:28:51
    and pretend like it's not there. It's
  • 00:28:53
    kind of like it's kind of human nature
  • 00:28:55
    to some extent to be this
  • 00:28:57
    future focused to like like this sense
  • 00:29:00
    of delayed gratification which we even
  • 00:29:02
    teach to children right we teach them
  • 00:29:04
    delayed gratification and future focus
  • 00:29:05
    and and all these things and it's just
  • 00:29:08
    taking it's taking them out of presence
  • 00:29:09
    right it's taking them out of being in
  • 00:29:11
    like you know the present moment living
  • 00:29:12
    in the present moment and that doesn't
  • 00:29:14
    need that doesn't need to be like this
  • 00:29:16
    woo thing it can also just be like the
  • 00:29:19
    idea of like can I be my best self and
  • 00:29:21
    also still succeed
  • 00:29:23
    in this future moment. Do I have to like
  • 00:29:25
    go so far as that I'm sacrificing? And I
  • 00:29:27
    think that's that's the issue is that
  • 00:29:29
    it's just being pushed too far. There's
  • 00:29:31
    nothing wrong with future focusing and
  • 00:29:33
    delayed gratification. It was just like
  • 00:29:34
    you don't have to go crazy about it,
  • 00:29:38
    right? So I if we're saying that like um
  • 00:29:40
    we're constantly feature focused and in
  • 00:29:43
    the past we were some form of religion
  • 00:29:47
    focused, we've now swapped that out for
  • 00:29:48
    status/wealth
  • 00:29:52
    money as a religion or as a framework.
  • 00:29:54
    And the argument that we're trying to
  • 00:29:56
    make in this call is to swap out health
  • 00:29:59
    as a religion. like make that your
  • 00:30:01
    number one priority in life for this
  • 00:30:02
    future thinking that Mike's talking
  • 00:30:05
    about. And in this transition phase,
  • 00:30:07
    one, you can still earn status, money,
  • 00:30:09
    wealth in society and make healthy
  • 00:30:11
    number one priority. We're arguing that.
  • 00:30:13
    And then two is in this transition
  • 00:30:15
    state, it's really painful and very
  • 00:30:17
    uncomfortable. And if you're feeling
  • 00:30:20
    internal angst hearing this conversation
  • 00:30:22
    cuz you're like, you guys, like that
  • 00:30:25
    just sounds impossible. There is a way.
  • 00:30:28
    it doesn't need to feel so scary. So, I
  • 00:30:29
    think that's the thing that we need to
  • 00:30:30
    tackle now as a group.
  • 00:30:32
    Okay, cool. Yeah, it's also the case
  • 00:30:35
    that there's there's probably a few uh
  • 00:30:36
    easy bridges here. For example, like
  • 00:30:38
    when you look at an Olympic athlete or
  • 00:30:41
    even professional athletes,
  • 00:30:44
    no, very few if anybody argues that it's
  • 00:30:46
    good for an athlete to be sleepd
  • 00:30:48
    deprived, to not have good nutrition, to
  • 00:30:51
    you know, to travel too much. Like it's
  • 00:30:53
    just a an expectation like clearly their
  • 00:30:56
    bodies are their primary asset and if
  • 00:30:57
    they don't take care of their bodies
  • 00:30:58
    they're not going to perform in the
  • 00:30:59
    court and they're going to lose. But
  • 00:31:02
    somehow the fact that entrepreneurs or
  • 00:31:04
    or professionals generally compete with
  • 00:31:06
    their minds and their emotions and their
  • 00:31:08
    judgment. They somehow don't view
  • 00:31:11
    themselves as subject to the same
  • 00:31:13
    physical requirements. It's just really
  • 00:31:16
    a a a disconnect of cognition
  • 00:31:18
    that like we don't pair the two that
  • 00:31:20
    when you want ideal performance you need
  • 00:31:21
    to treat you need to treat your only
  • 00:31:24
    asset with this kind of um rigorous uh
  • 00:31:26
    health approach. So yeah just I think in
  • 00:31:30
    time I I I do think we are winning the
  • 00:31:32
    war. Uh I think that the culture is
  • 00:31:34
    shifting. I think that people
  • 00:31:36
    increasingly see this martyrm culture is
  • 00:31:38
    really bad. it does produce a bad
  • 00:31:40
    outcomes and that I I've seen many of my
  • 00:31:42
    friends and and um particularly
  • 00:31:47
    investors they really care and evaluate
  • 00:31:50
    the founders's health when making an
  • 00:31:52
    investment that if the founder is not
  • 00:31:54
    health forward they second guess their
  • 00:31:55
    decisions because they know it just
  • 00:31:56
    compromise so I do think we're winning
  • 00:31:58
    the war all right cool so let's jump to
  • 00:32:00
    that so Kate you're saying that people
  • 00:32:02
    are like okay guys look I buy it but
  • 00:32:06
    you've got to give me an easy on-ramp I
  • 00:32:09
    can't spend 5 hours a day. So like give
  • 00:32:10
    me the the argument that this is
  • 00:32:12
    actually doable with my my really
  • 00:32:13
    intense schedule.
  • 00:32:17
    Yeah. Um and I would put forth first
  • 00:32:19
    this is how I transitioned between the
  • 00:32:22
    two arenas of competition in today's
  • 00:32:26
    world is treating this is like going to
  • 00:32:28
    sound [ __ ] up but I think it works for
  • 00:32:30
    people like myself who were
  • 00:32:31
    indoctrinated into this previous
  • 00:32:37
    mindset. Treat sleep like work. treat it
  • 00:32:40
    like it is a hustle in of itself. So
  • 00:32:45
    when 12 PM rolls around, my desire is to
  • 00:32:47
    stay up and do things because I become
  • 00:32:49
    very creative during that time period. I
  • 00:32:52
    love spending that time awake. I have to
  • 00:32:54
    delay gratification in that moment and
  • 00:32:59
    say you are working Kate, you need to go
  • 00:33:01
    to sleep. like that is part of. So in
  • 00:33:04
    fact like people perceive this at least
  • 00:33:05
    how I perceived it that sleep is a
  • 00:33:10
    luxury and something that I can that um
  • 00:33:12
    is slacking off to be completely honest.
  • 00:33:14
    That's definitely how I viewed it. Like
  • 00:33:15
    I'm
  • 00:33:19
    I'm relaxing by sleeping. And so if you
  • 00:33:20
    treat it if you're the kind of person
  • 00:33:24
    that works 24/7 like I do, I treat now
  • 00:33:27
    uh sleep as work. So it actually factors
  • 00:33:30
    into the, you know, I need to have this
  • 00:33:32
    meeting today. I need to have this call
  • 00:33:34
    today while also I need to go to sleep
  • 00:33:35
    today. And like even when I don't want
  • 00:33:37
    to go to sleep, I have to go to sleep
  • 00:33:39
    cuz that's my job to actually go to
  • 00:33:41
    sleep. So like that's the bridge that I
  • 00:33:43
    that I I've played in this tricking
  • 00:33:43
    myself.
  • 00:33:45
    Mike, how does that frame land for you?
  • 00:33:47
    If if Kate says that frame, you know,
  • 00:33:50
    treat sleep like work, does that
  • 00:33:52
    increase does that improve your um
  • 00:33:53
    anxiety or alone?
  • 00:33:55
    Oh, yeah. just like does that does that
  • 00:33:57
    resonate with you?
  • 00:33:59
    Not really. Not really. Like for for me
  • 00:34:01
    just for me it doesn't. I mean I think
  • 00:34:03
    that like that's it's great that it
  • 00:34:05
    works for Kate, but for me personally it
  • 00:34:08
    doesn't as much because
  • 00:34:10
    um yeah I I get a bit I have to be
  • 00:34:12
    careful with sleep. Like I get a bit
  • 00:34:13
    anxious about sleep if I'm not getting
  • 00:34:16
    the sleep that I need. And that leads to
  • 00:34:19
    more lack of sleep, more insomnia. And
  • 00:34:21
    that's just my my own personal like
  • 00:34:22
    anxiety stuff that I got to work
  • 00:34:25
    through. But like calling it work to me
  • 00:34:29
    gives it a um another level of like
  • 00:34:31
    requirement, you know what I mean? So,
  • 00:34:33
    so for me what for me what actually like
  • 00:34:35
    seems to work better is like um this
  • 00:34:38
    more like compassionate approach where I
  • 00:34:41
    kind of for me I like depersonalize it
  • 00:34:43
    because there's like there's so much
  • 00:34:46
    like self- judgment built up in my own
  • 00:34:48
    personal expectations around my own
  • 00:34:50
    career and success and all those things
  • 00:34:53
    that I end up treating myself without
  • 00:34:57
    any um compassion and what I truly need
  • 00:34:59
    in order to take care of myself for
  • 00:35:00
    sleep or for exercise or diet. is just
  • 00:35:03
    more self-compassion. And the way for me
  • 00:35:06
    to do that is to imagine rather than
  • 00:35:08
    making a decision for myself, I'm making
  • 00:35:10
    like a decision for my child or for a
  • 00:35:11
    cared one or for someone that I can
  • 00:35:13
    easily find that compassion for.
  • 00:35:15
    Like even like when I was a physician
  • 00:35:17
    working in the ER, how would I want my
  • 00:35:19
    doctor to take care of themsel, right?
  • 00:35:21
    As opposed to like should I go to bed
  • 00:35:22
    right now? It's like well would my
  • 00:35:24
    patients tomorrow want their doctor to
  • 00:35:25
    go to bed right now? like that sort of
  • 00:35:27
    like depersonalizes it for me and allows
  • 00:35:28
    me to find the empathy and the
  • 00:35:30
    compassion that I can't find otherwise
  • 00:35:32
    just when I'm thinking about like what I
  • 00:35:34
    should be doing.
  • 00:35:35
    I'd love that. Yeah.
  • 00:35:38
    So, if if I've got this like brutal uh
  • 00:35:40
    you need work 24/7 like turn that into
  • 00:35:43
    sleep mentality and Mike has the empathy
  • 00:35:44
    route where he's looking after himself
  • 00:35:47
    as a parent would. How do you do it,
  • 00:35:51
    Brian? What's your mental model? Yeah, I
  • 00:35:53
    think well first of all I think that
  • 00:35:56
    there is a group of of people who do
  • 00:35:57
    really
  • 00:36:00
    feel this they feel the pain and
  • 00:36:03
    discomfort of the modern culture and
  • 00:36:05
    they want an exit path but they feel
  • 00:36:07
    trapped with the expectations of others
  • 00:36:09
    and so I think that's probably the
  • 00:36:10
    biggest segment. And so I was at a
  • 00:36:11
    conference cate the conference we were
  • 00:36:14
    at this past week and there were two
  • 00:36:16
    founders there from Australia and I said
  • 00:36:18
    you guys uh and they were talking about
  • 00:36:21
    that they basically were doing one
  • 00:36:24
    international trip I think every 30 days
  • 00:36:26
    or so you because I guess Australia is
  • 00:36:30
    the middle of nowhere. No offense Kate.
  • 00:36:31
    It's true.
  • 00:36:33
    So they they you know going to Asia and
  • 00:36:35
    the states it was just a lot and the
  • 00:36:37
    Middle East. And so I was going through
  • 00:36:40
    the the devastating uh health effects of
  • 00:36:41
    international travel and telling them
  • 00:36:43
    what I had been going through from
  • 00:36:45
    Europe. And one of the founders turned
  • 00:36:46
    to me and said, "I'm going to tell my
  • 00:36:49
    board that Brian Johnson said I can only
  • 00:36:52
    make one international trip each month."
  • 00:36:54
    And I said, "That's right. Tell them
  • 00:36:57
    that that your investors do not want you
  • 00:36:59
    to travel more than one time per month
  • 00:37:02
    because if you do, it's going to lessen
  • 00:37:04
    your performance. It's going to increase
  • 00:37:05
    anxiety, depression. It's going to hurt
  • 00:37:07
    your relationships. It's going to mess
  • 00:37:09
    up your all of your biological systems.
  • 00:37:11
    You will build a better company if you
  • 00:37:14
    can create a limited budget of
  • 00:37:15
    international travel. Now, if you need
  • 00:37:17
    to make break and do something like two
  • 00:37:20
    trips over a 90-day period of time,
  • 00:37:22
    okay? But just realize there's
  • 00:37:24
    definitely a budget. It is not an
  • 00:37:25
    infinite amount of time you have doing
  • 00:37:27
    this. And he I think he really felt
  • 00:37:29
    emboldened in that conversation that if
  • 00:37:31
    he had cover like if his investors
  • 00:37:33
    wanted him to have that kind of
  • 00:37:34
    limitation, you know, if they didn't
  • 00:37:36
    want him to travel internationally, I
  • 00:37:38
    think he would feel much more empowered.
  • 00:37:41
    So to me, it's it's most people want
  • 00:37:43
    social permission
  • 00:37:45
    to do the things they know they want to
  • 00:37:47
    do. And right now like even the like
  • 00:37:50
    every I feel like everyone is is
  • 00:37:52
    enslaved by modern society to various
  • 00:37:54
    degrees. I was thinking about this this
  • 00:37:57
    morning that the the peak existence
  • 00:38:01
    right now is actually agency. It's the
  • 00:38:03
    ability to be free of entrapment of
  • 00:38:06
    various things. And the the forces of
  • 00:38:08
    the world are so good at entrapping us
  • 00:38:10
    with addictive algorithms, addictive
  • 00:38:12
    foods, addictive social feeds,
  • 00:38:14
    addictive, you know, porn like that. The
  • 00:38:16
    world is so good at getting us into
  • 00:38:19
    these these locked in dopamine uh
  • 00:38:23
    addiction cycles. It's entrament. And
  • 00:38:25
    once you then are missing out on sleep
  • 00:38:27
    and you lose more of your willpower,
  • 00:38:29
    that enttrapment becomes stronger and
  • 00:38:31
    stronger to like this strangulation. And
  • 00:38:33
    people intuitively feel it and they're
  • 00:38:35
    mad when they're told that they can't
  • 00:38:36
    they that they should just stop it. It's
  • 00:38:38
    like they can't they don't they have no
  • 00:38:40
    more willpower left and the addictions
  • 00:38:41
    are too strong. And so I understand like
  • 00:38:43
    and so I think it's just giving them
  • 00:38:47
    permission of like uh hey person like um
  • 00:38:48
    the people doing this to you need to
  • 00:38:50
    stop. Like they're [ __ ] you up. this
  • 00:38:52
    is bad for you, it's bad for society,
  • 00:38:54
    but it just that's kind of like the
  • 00:38:56
    wedge because if you put it back on the
  • 00:38:57
    person and be like, "Hey person, you
  • 00:38:59
    must the willpower to do it." It's a
  • 00:39:01
    really hard equation. If you have if you
  • 00:39:03
    have cover from others who are like,
  • 00:39:04
    "You know what? We support you in doing
  • 00:39:06
    this." It makes it so much easier.
  • 00:39:08
    So, if someone's like, "Okay, fine. I'll
  • 00:39:11
    like figure out my mental model." Um, I
  • 00:39:12
    know we always say the same thing. It's
  • 00:39:14
    sleep diet exercise
  • 00:39:16
    practically.
  • 00:39:18
    So, can I I'll I'll talk through a
  • 00:39:19
    couple ways that like I do this in my
  • 00:39:21
    life.
  • 00:39:22
    So if someone's listening to this and
  • 00:39:23
    they're like okay how do I actually
  • 00:39:25
    start to implement this one is blocking
  • 00:39:27
    out a morning routine to get things
  • 00:39:30
    done. So saying like I'm not going to do
  • 00:39:33
    XYZ before this time period. So I think
  • 00:39:35
    Brian everything on your calendar is
  • 00:39:36
    scheduled like after 10 a.m. for
  • 00:39:38
    example. Same thing for me.
  • 00:39:38
    Mhm.
  • 00:39:40
    And then on the tail end as well. Same
  • 00:39:42
    thing for sleep. So when a social event
  • 00:39:44
    comes up that you've planned in your
  • 00:39:47
    mind like that that time allocation it's
  • 00:39:49
    already taken up by default. And then if
  • 00:39:51
    you are going to work around it like you
  • 00:39:53
    have to plan otherwise as opposed to the
  • 00:39:54
    other way around where it's like sleep
  • 00:39:56
    will happen whatever your calendar
  • 00:39:58
    allows for it. So I' say those two
  • 00:40:01
    things and then for travel um being
  • 00:40:03
    really really sober about the fact it
  • 00:40:06
    has and treating it with
  • 00:40:09
    that level of commitment. So, I know for
  • 00:40:11
    for Brian and I when we were planning
  • 00:40:12
    this Europe trip, I was thinking about
  • 00:40:14
    it like two months in advance being,
  • 00:40:16
    okay, got to get ready, got to get
  • 00:40:18
    ready. Like, I need to be mentally in
  • 00:40:20
    the right space for this um planning
  • 00:40:22
    calendars accordingly. Like, previously,
  • 00:40:24
    I would travel red eyes. Um, when I was
  • 00:40:26
    going back and forth between New York
  • 00:40:28
    and LA a lot because I was like, that's
  • 00:40:31
    the best time to get my uh travel out of
  • 00:40:33
    the way so I have the day to do things.
  • 00:40:35
    And now I look back on that I'm like
  • 00:40:38
    that is wild that I thought that I was
  • 00:40:41
    saving time by traveling overnight. And
  • 00:40:43
    so same thing for travel like booking
  • 00:40:45
    the plane trip that aligns with your
  • 00:40:48
    sleep and morning routine schedule as
  • 00:40:50
    much as possible. So those are a couple
  • 00:40:52
    things that have really worked for me.
  • 00:40:53
    I feel like Brian does a really good job
  • 00:40:56
    of this. Um having non-negotiables,
  • 00:40:57
    right? like
  • 00:40:59
    like it is non-negotiable that I am
  • 00:41:02
    going to do my whatever 40step morning
  • 00:41:05
    routine that takes 3 and 1 half hours or
  • 00:41:06
    whatever whatever crazy thing it is
  • 00:41:08
    right now.
  • 00:41:11
    Sorry, five and a half. Yeah. Like and
  • 00:41:13
    my my like wind down routine that takes
  • 00:41:14
    you know another hour and a half or
  • 00:41:16
    whatever it is. But like no I mean but
  • 00:41:18
    in all joking aside like those
  • 00:41:20
    non-negotiables are extremely important
  • 00:41:21
    because one thing we're really good at
  • 00:41:23
    doing to ourselves is talking ourselves
  • 00:41:25
    out of things, right? So the minute you
  • 00:41:28
    give yourself any leeway to convince
  • 00:41:30
    yourself that there's an alternative
  • 00:41:32
    that is acceptable, you're going to take
  • 00:41:33
    it every single time. And that's
  • 00:41:36
    especially true in type A people who are
  • 00:41:37
    like the same people that are very
  • 00:41:40
    successful in life because they they're
  • 00:41:42
    very good at arguing and convincing you
  • 00:41:43
    of something. And that means they're
  • 00:41:44
    good at convincing themselves of
  • 00:41:45
    something, too.
  • 00:41:47
    Yeah. And I think that a lot of people
  • 00:41:48
    when they listen to this, they're going
  • 00:41:51
    to say, "I don't have the luxury of a
  • 00:41:54
    morning routine, right? like I'm I'm on
  • 00:41:56
    calls with Asia, you know, at this time
  • 00:41:57
    of night. I'm on calls with the Middle
  • 00:41:59
    East at this time of night. And I've got
  • 00:42:01
    blank like so they've got very seriously
  • 00:42:02
    I've got kids who wake up in the
  • 00:42:04
    morning. I've got like parents I'm
  • 00:42:06
    taking care of. Like people have really
  • 00:42:10
    serious life limitations. And so I I get
  • 00:42:11
    that. And so I guess the question is
  • 00:42:17
    like how how do you um try to create a
  • 00:42:19
    culture of health given that people's
  • 00:42:22
    lives are practically very complex and
  • 00:42:24
    there's no oneizefits-all. And so we I
  • 00:42:26
    guess like if we review the things we've
  • 00:42:29
    talked about, this is why I like resting
  • 00:42:32
    heart rate before bed so much because no
  • 00:42:35
    matter who you are, that is the one
  • 00:42:38
    thing you can build life systems around.
  • 00:42:41
    So, like Mike was saying, uh, I try to
  • 00:42:44
    never let myself make decisions because
  • 00:42:46
    I know if I make a decision in that
  • 00:42:49
    moment, like if it's just like a on the
  • 00:42:51
    spot, whatever Brian feels like
  • 00:42:53
    decision, I will most likely make the
  • 00:42:57
    wrong decision. And so you I want like
  • 00:42:59
    morning Brian, high in willpower, who
  • 00:43:00
    wants good things for myself to be
  • 00:43:02
    making system decisions, not 700 p.m.
  • 00:43:04
    who's worn down, out of willpower, wants
  • 00:43:07
    to soo himself with whatever. And so the
  • 00:43:08
    resting heart rate, you can go back and
  • 00:43:10
    listen to a previous episode we did on
  • 00:43:14
    this on the the ways you can focus on
  • 00:43:15
    reducing your heart rate, but very
  • 00:43:18
    simple things like a lot of people
  • 00:43:20
    report that rumination is their number
  • 00:43:23
    one problem. So like yesterday, a guy
  • 00:43:25
    came over to the house. We I was giving
  • 00:43:26
    a bunch of people a tour the other the
  • 00:43:29
    clinic and he said, "I've done
  • 00:43:32
    everything to optimize my health. Like I
  • 00:43:34
    do red light. I eat my last meal of the
  • 00:43:36
    day four hours before bed. I you know
  • 00:43:37
    blank blank and he said I just can't
  • 00:43:39
    sleep. And so I was like okay this is a
  • 00:43:42
    puzzle. So I probed it around a little
  • 00:43:45
    bit and it's his rumination that he is
  • 00:43:49
    tip a he is incredibly ambitious. Every
  • 00:43:50
    night before he goes to bed he's like
  • 00:43:52
    now how do I you know change the world
  • 00:43:54
    in this way one or the other. And so I
  • 00:43:56
    was like okay so that rumination is
  • 00:43:58
    going to cost you five to 25 beats per
  • 00:44:01
    minute. And so you and you like first of
  • 00:44:04
    all you have to rec reconcile that is
  • 00:44:06
    not the moment to try to solve the
  • 00:44:07
    world's problems. All right? Like you
  • 00:44:08
    need to like separate. So we walk
  • 00:44:10
    through the whole routine of what
  • 00:44:11
    rumination is, how you talk through it,
  • 00:44:13
    how you minimize it is he's going to
  • 00:44:14
    report back to me.
  • 00:44:16
    I think if if what we should probably do
  • 00:44:17
    is like we should probably bring a few
  • 00:44:20
    guests on here like that so people can
  • 00:44:22
    hear this dialogue of like what they're
  • 00:44:23
    going through because in their mind
  • 00:44:25
    they're doing everything right and this
  • 00:44:28
    like one or two things just slips by and
  • 00:44:29
    undercuts everything else and the bad
  • 00:44:31
    sleep leads to poor willpower which has
  • 00:44:34
    other cascade. So I'm guessing that we
  • 00:44:35
    can say whatever we want but we probably
  • 00:44:37
    just need a few real life examples.
  • 00:44:39
    Good point. Yep. Agreed.
  • 00:44:41
    Mike, by the way, how's your TV series
  • 00:44:44
    The Pit going?
  • 00:44:47
    I've taken a break.
  • 00:44:49
    I'm taking an extended break. It was uh
  • 00:44:51
    I did another one after we had the last
  • 00:44:55
    podcast and um it crushed me like and
  • 00:44:57
    um I just uh yeah, I took a I'm taking a
  • 00:44:58
    break right now. Maybe you get back to
  • 00:45:00
    it like on Saturday morning or
  • 00:45:00
    something.
  • 00:45:03
    On Saturday, I had a minute and I was I
  • 00:45:04
    was going to watch the show or something
  • 00:45:08
    and I searched the pit and I couldn't
  • 00:45:09
    What platform is it on?
  • 00:45:10
    It's on Max. Yeah.
  • 00:45:12
    Okay. All right. So, I was going to try
  • 00:45:14
    to simulate a Mike Min experience and
  • 00:45:16
    watching The Pit.
  • 00:45:18
    What happened? Did you do it?
  • 00:45:19
    No. So, I'll do it this coming weekend.
  • 00:45:20
    I'll watch an episode.
  • 00:45:22
    So, like that's that's something I need
  • 00:45:24
    a guardrail around. It's like I my
  • 00:45:26
    guardrail needs to be I do not watch The
  • 00:45:28
    Pit after 6 p.m. or something like that.
  • 00:45:29
    like that's you know like you just
  • 00:45:31
    create these guardrails of things that
  • 00:45:34
    are just non-negotiables that and I
  • 00:45:37
    think you know what's interesting is I
  • 00:45:39
    think that that that's like the main
  • 00:45:42
    thing for me like when it comes to like
  • 00:45:44
    stepping into this world of prioritizing
  • 00:45:47
    health is just identifying like you know
  • 00:45:50
    just like the top three five things that
  • 00:45:52
    you feel are most important to you and
  • 00:45:54
    then create those guardrails there's
  • 00:45:56
    non-negotiables around it and just start
  • 00:45:58
    there like that to me like Maybe it's I
  • 00:46:01
    don't eat junk food. Maybe it's I'm in
  • 00:46:03
    bed by 10 p.m. Maybe it's, you know, I'm
  • 00:46:05
    up an hour before the kids so I can
  • 00:46:07
    meditate and journal. Like like whatever
  • 00:46:09
    it is for you that it feels most
  • 00:46:10
    important to you. And it's probably
  • 00:46:11
    different for everybody. Like just
  • 00:46:13
    starting there seems like a really like
  • 00:46:15
    easy place to get going, you know?
  • 00:46:16
    Yeah. I think for people listening, I
  • 00:46:18
    guess I would try to summarize this
  • 00:46:21
    conversation. I would say this.
  • 00:46:26
    Don't give up your power.
  • 00:46:28
    So true. You want you want to
  • 00:46:30
    concentrate your power. You want to be
  • 00:46:33
    as powerful as you can as a human. And
  • 00:46:36
    the best way to be powerful is to claim
  • 00:46:39
    your agency. And anything that steps on
  • 00:46:43
    your power or agency is bad for you. And
  • 00:46:45
    so that includes if culture is telling
  • 00:46:48
    you to do martyrdom, it's going to ruin
  • 00:46:50
    your power, right? It's going to enslave
  • 00:46:52
    you in a system that's not your making
  • 00:46:53
    of not your choice. And it's going to
  • 00:46:54
    make you a lesser human being. It's
  • 00:46:56
    going to destroy your willpower. It's
  • 00:46:57
    going to increase your cardiovascular
  • 00:46:58
    risk. It's going to make you a less
  • 00:47:00
    charismatic leader. It's going to ruin
  • 00:47:02
    your insulin sensitivity. It's going to
  • 00:47:03
    you're going to become fat. Like it's
  • 00:47:05
    just bad. And then just go down the
  • 00:47:09
    list. Do not let the world take your
  • 00:47:11
    power. And that to me is a very clean
  • 00:47:12
    statement. Like people understand that
  • 00:47:15
    people want power, status, and wealth.
  • 00:47:18
    So don't lose power. And so that may
  • 00:47:19
    resonate, you know. Then also I'd say
  • 00:47:22
    second thing is is um be these things
  • 00:47:24
    because when you be these things when
  • 00:47:26
    you are these things other people will
  • 00:47:27
    see this and they will respond
  • 00:47:30
    correspondingly and when they do you
  • 00:47:32
    have more societal permission to do it.
  • 00:47:33
    If everybody went to bed on time nobody
  • 00:47:35
    would think about it but it's the fact
  • 00:47:36
    that there are some outliers who are
  • 00:47:39
    like they're so loud of like it's
  • 00:47:41
    amazing and the only way to success to
  • 00:47:43
    you know sleep 3 hours per night they
  • 00:47:46
    that they create this cultural illusion
  • 00:47:48
    that that's what it takes. And so the
  • 00:47:50
    more the zeitgeist can shift to this the
  • 00:47:53
    the better uh the more cover someone's
  • 00:47:54
    going to have. And then three is once
  • 00:47:56
    you experience this I think you will
  • 00:47:58
    feel for yourself you will become a
  • 00:47:59
    better leader. You will become a better
  • 00:48:01
    entrepreneur a better professional
  • 00:48:03
    better parent child friend co-orker like
  • 00:48:04
    you'll become better at everything you
  • 00:48:06
    do. You will not have to sacrifice your
  • 00:48:08
    success by doing this. And you just have
  • 00:48:11
    to just just cross over that threshold.
  • 00:48:12
    You will realize that and experience it.
  • 00:48:13
    Then you can speak to it with
  • 00:48:15
    confidence. Okay. I guess as we wrap
  • 00:48:17
    Kate just a quick roundup. You were sick
  • 00:48:20
    last week. Uh Mike and I missed you.
  • 00:48:22
    Glad you're back. How are you feeling?
  • 00:48:24
    I'm feeling much better. Still a little
  • 00:48:27
    congested, but yeah, definitely. Uh
  • 00:48:29
    whenever you're sick, it's a always a
  • 00:48:31
    good reminder to be like, take care of
  • 00:48:32
    your health cuz when you're sick, you
  • 00:48:35
    realize how bad it is. So, I'm glad I'm
  • 00:48:35
    back.
  • 00:48:38
    And then Kate is going to Croatia and so
  • 00:48:40
    we are concerned about more
  • 00:48:43
    international travel. Uh Kate, can you
  • 00:48:44
    tell us about that?
  • 00:48:46
    Yeah, what do I do about this? I'm going
  • 00:48:48
    to Croatia for my cousin's wedding. It's
  • 00:48:52
    a big deal. I rarely get to celebrate
  • 00:48:55
    with my Bosnian family. So, it's a big
  • 00:48:57
    big deal.
  • 00:48:59
    I'm kind of I'm dreading I'm just going
  • 00:49:01
    to I'm not going to get sick. I'm going
  • 00:49:03
    to avoid that with all
  • 00:49:04
    get sick because you're going to listen
  • 00:49:05
    to the podcast that Brian and I recorded
  • 00:49:09
    last week.
  • 00:49:10
    Yeah. What do I do? So, wish me luck.
  • 00:49:15
    Well, the good news, Kate, is you are
  • 00:49:18
    very well prepared. You now know all the
  • 00:49:20
    you have all the evidence on what you
  • 00:49:22
    can do to make the best of the
  • 00:49:23
    circumstances.
  • 00:49:24
    It's true.
  • 00:49:26
    Yeah. Mike, um, how are you doing in
  • 00:49:26
    life?
  • 00:49:29
    I'm pretty great. Um, I'm not traveling
  • 00:49:31
    a lot right now, which is amazing for my
  • 00:49:34
    sleep, and I'm not watching The Pit,
  • 00:49:36
    which is also amazing for my sleep. So,
  • 00:49:38
    yeah, things are things are good.
  • 00:49:39
    So, you're you're in a nice steady
  • 00:49:42
    routine. You're feeling good.
  • 00:49:44
    Yeah. This will inevitably not last for
  • 00:49:46
    very long, but uh going to try to enjoy
  • 00:49:47
    it while it's here.
  • 00:49:50
    Yeah, those those durations where you're
  • 00:49:52
    at home in a routine consistency are the
  • 00:49:52
    best.
  • 00:49:54
    That's the best, isn't it? Yeah.
  • 00:49:57
    Brian, um any observations lately about
  • 00:49:59
    your health that you want to slip in?
  • 00:50:00
    Like I'm just seeing red light therapy
  • 00:50:02
    before bed experiment.
  • 00:50:04
    A few quick ticks. You can see on my
  • 00:50:06
    face that my face is pretty destroyed.
  • 00:50:09
    On Friday, I did a 1927 nanometer laser.
  • 00:50:11
    This is Lutronic. So, this is a
  • 00:50:14
    nonablative laser. So, we're trying to
  • 00:50:16
    basically rebuild collagen, elastin,
  • 00:50:19
    lessen wrinkles. Um, and so this is like
  • 00:50:21
    we shaved off maybe 30% of my face with
  • 00:50:23
    this. I had numbing cream on, but it's
  • 00:50:27
    still pretty spicy. Um, and then I did I
  • 00:50:29
    started doing red light therapy before
  • 00:50:32
    bed. Uh, this is the math. Uh, the
  • 00:50:35
    approximation we have is the lights are
  • 00:50:40
    4 jewels cime squared per minute. So I
  • 00:50:41
    increased my time to 8 minutes. I'm
  • 00:50:44
    getting 32 jewels per centimeter squared
  • 00:50:47
    of red and near exposure before bed. My
  • 00:50:48
    first night of experiment, it increased
  • 00:50:51
    my sleep duration by an hour. So a huge
  • 00:50:54
    boost. We'll see over time what happens.
  • 00:50:56
    And then I would say that I'm still
  • 00:50:59
    recovering from travel. Like it I'm
  • 00:51:00
    still trying to get my sleep
  • 00:51:02
    architecture on point. I'm still trying
  • 00:51:05
    to get all my body system back online. I
  • 00:51:07
    think people when I talk about this,
  • 00:51:08
    people are like, "Oh, you're such a
  • 00:51:12
    snowflake." And they like they I think
  • 00:51:16
    when you feel like [ __ ] you don't feel
  • 00:51:18
    more shitty. Uh you you don't feel the
  • 00:51:20
    shittyness as much. When you feel
  • 00:51:24
    exceptional and you go to bad, man, it
  • 00:51:27
    stings. So, I'm really like I'm just in
  • 00:51:31
    this I'm in a recoil phase of just how
  • 00:51:33
    bad and devastating international travel
  • 00:51:36
    is for health. And there's we have a few
  • 00:51:38
    clinics in China opening up and our
  • 00:51:40
    China team is wanting us to be out in
  • 00:51:44
    China this fall. And man, I
  • 00:51:46
    I don't know how to do it. But um trying
  • 00:51:48
    to figure out like what we do on the
  • 00:51:49
    international front. We were also going
  • 00:51:52
    to do a Middle East trip. Um so yeah,
  • 00:51:52
    trying to figure that out.
  • 00:51:54
    All right, you guys. Love hanging out
  • 00:51:55
    with you.
  • 00:51:57
    Good to see you guys. Okay, guys. Be
  • 00:51:58
    well. Bye.
  • 00:52:00
    This is the Brian Johnson podcast.
  • 00:52:02
    Special thanks to my co-hosts, Kate
  • 00:52:04
    Tollo and Dr. Mike Malin. For more
  • 00:52:06
    science breakdowns and protocols,
  • 00:52:07
    subscribe to my YouTube channel, follow
  • 00:52:09
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  • 00:52:14
    or follow me on Instagram or ex Brian
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