00:00:10
I don't think you'll find anybody who
00:00:13
was going to sit here and tell you with
00:00:14
a straight face that what we are doing
00:00:16
right now with title 9 on college
00:00:18
campuses is working I don't think anyone
00:00:23
ever thought that colleges and
00:00:25
universities would be adjudicating and
00:00:27
holding court regarding sexual crimes in
00:00:30
America but that's what it's developed
00:00:32
into some college attorneys cynically
00:00:35
looked at this and said we'd rather be
00:00:37
sued by the person who's accused than
00:00:39
the person bringing the accusation at
00:00:41
every step of the process I felt like
00:00:44
they assumed I was guilty reporting it
00:00:47
and didn't really help at all it kind of
00:00:49
made matters worse what if you were in
00:00:52
that position would you want to be
00:00:53
silenced and just found guilty on the
00:00:55
spot the process was more harmful to me
00:00:58
in a lot of ways than what actually
00:01:00
happened to me
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[Music]
00:01:22
[Music]
00:01:25
one of the best ways to think about
00:01:28
title 9 is that in 1972 Congress threw a
00:01:33
pebble into a pond and the ripples have
00:01:36
continued outward for more than 40 years
00:01:38
and so today title 9 addresses a broad
00:01:42
range of behaviors that it probably
00:01:44
didn't back in the early 1970s the
00:01:46
initial title 9 protections really
00:01:49
favored faculty members who were not
00:01:51
achieving gender equity in the workplace
00:01:53
but then through the 1980s title 9
00:01:56
really came to be almost all about
00:01:58
sports and equity and athletics then in
00:02:02
the 1990s the courts again expanded
00:02:05
title 9 when they were asked the
00:02:07
question would sexual harassment create
00:02:10
a barrier to educational opportunities
00:02:11
for women the court said yes but the
00:02:15
courts didn't give a lot of clarity to
00:02:17
what a school should do so in one school
00:02:19
there may be decisions that tend to be
00:02:21
victim favouring at another school that
00:02:23
may tend to be a process that is
00:02:25
favoring the responding
00:02:30
[Music]
00:02:41
so I received an email informing me that
00:02:44
I was being charged with violating the
00:02:48
Student Code of Conduct I had been
00:02:50
accused of sexually assaulting someone
00:02:53
so October 2016 is the alleged sexual
00:02:57
misconduct that the accuser accused me
00:03:01
of being counter itself was in the
00:03:04
summer of 2014 and I mean when I
00:03:06
received that letter honestly I was very
00:03:08
shocked but I knew that I had to do
00:03:12
something about it and resent my case at
00:03:14
the time the rule at my university was
00:03:18
anyone who had been accused of sexual
00:03:21
misconduct could not utilize any
00:03:23
university resources and his or her
00:03:26
defense the letter did state that I
00:03:28
should meet with the investigator for
00:03:30
the initial kind of like interview right
00:03:33
when I walked in to that interview was
00:03:35
what the investigator had said is that
00:03:37
if you're not ready to take
00:03:39
responsibility now and we proceed to a
00:03:42
hearing you're likely to be expelled
00:03:44
I was completely denying it it didn't
00:03:48
happen this was a group encounter lots
00:03:51
of eye witnesses there were three other
00:03:53
people besides us two in the room he
00:03:56
found me responsible without a hearing
00:03:59
of facts
00:04:01
at every step of the process I felt like
00:04:08
they assumed I was guilty I mean I did
00:04:13
everything I could
00:04:14
every single thing I appealed everything
00:04:19
he still expelled me it's a very
00:04:23
delicate topic right because everyone
00:04:25
knows people who've been affected by
00:04:27
sexual violence everyone right and so it
00:04:31
can be very tempting to just make it a
00:04:34
totally block and white issue ask
00:04:36
yourself this what if you were in that
00:04:38
position how would you like to be
00:04:39
treated
00:04:40
would you want to be silenced and just
00:04:44
found guilty on the spot but all having
00:04:46
your side be heard where evidence being
00:04:50
shown so after I was found responsible
00:04:53
at the school level I was suspended for
00:04:56
six months I pursue legal action against
00:05:01
my school and was successful on that
00:05:02
front I decided to sign up with this
00:05:06
class-action lawsuit you know so it can
00:05:09
help a lot of other students in similar
00:05:10
position that I was in
00:05:14
[Music]
00:05:26
I am the system-wide title nine director
00:05:30
for the University of California and the
00:05:33
purpose of this office is to provide
00:05:34
support and guidance for the campus
00:05:37
title nine offices their title and
00:05:39
officers are experts on this issue
00:05:40
they're well versed in what constitutes
00:05:42
sexual harassment and what does not and
00:05:44
so they're using guidance that's issued
00:05:47
by the office for civil rights in the US
00:05:49
Department of Education and that's been
00:05:51
employed for a long time and they're
00:05:53
using their experiences title nine
00:05:54
officers and their expertise has there
00:05:57
been an increase in lawsuits against the
00:05:59
UC system there's been an increase in
00:06:01
litigation across the country all of
00:06:03
these challenges present opportunities
00:06:05
for us to learn and for us to improve
00:06:08
the way that we do our work is the
00:06:11
process fair we know it is extremely
00:06:15
important to private provide a process
00:06:18
that is fair to both parties that
00:06:20
provides due process as it's been
00:06:22
defined by the courts and at the same
00:06:25
time it's important that we treat the
00:06:27
parties who are engaged in the process
00:06:28
with respect and with kindness and with
00:06:31
compassion as we navigate this extremely
00:06:34
difficult process
00:06:39
we mainly represent students or
00:06:41
professors or others who've been accused
00:06:44
I'm in title nine matters I know that
00:06:46
since 2011 there's been approximately
00:06:50
450 lawsuits filed in the United States
00:06:53
about this issue and I think the
00:06:55
misconception that some people have is
00:06:57
that we're fighting against the accusers
00:07:00
or fighting against the complainants but
00:07:02
that's not the case at all but we're
00:07:04
fighting for is for fairness and for for
00:07:07
both sides to stand some sort of a
00:07:09
chance and to get a fair shot in a fair
00:07:12
shake the whole process from the
00:07:14
beginning to the end is much more
00:07:15
complicated than it should be for
00:07:17
students the students have no right to
00:07:20
an attorney the evidence isn't given to
00:07:22
them until right before the hearing
00:07:24
often times it's heavily redacted
00:07:26
there's unknown witnesses so it's like
00:07:30
the school prosecuting a student but the
00:07:32
student has really left to fend for
00:07:35
themselves and usually it doesn't fare
00:07:37
well for them if there's no hostile
00:07:39
environment if both students can
00:07:41
continue going to class and no one's
00:07:43
deprived of their right to an education
00:07:46
then maybe they should allow that to
00:07:49
resolve itself oftentimes it doesn't
00:07:51
even start with a complainant there's no
00:07:53
actual complainant it's just information
00:07:56
that's come to the attention of the
00:07:57
title 9 office that there could be some
00:08:00
situation of misconduct
00:08:07
I'm a single mom I have a 20 years old
00:08:10
son that is attending a community
00:08:14
college and he's been accused of title 9
00:08:19
he's been accused of inappropriate
00:08:22
touching I went over there to the
00:08:25
college and they gave me this letter
00:08:27
where they say that they find after the
00:08:29
investigation done they will find my son
00:08:32
guilty and it was going to be suspended
00:08:34
for semester they were able to destroy
00:08:38
with that 18 years of work 18 years of
00:08:43
work with a kid with so much
00:08:45
disadvantage
00:08:47
my son has autism yet it's not mentally
00:08:52
00:09:04
I heard of title nine before you were
00:09:06
accused no I haven't here at i/o nine do
00:09:12
you remember how they told you did you
00:09:14
did somebody tell you did you get a
00:09:16
letter did you get an email letter a
00:09:18
letter you got a letter in the letter
00:09:21
said you've been accused of sexual
00:09:26
harassment
00:09:26
yeah oh cool socks rolled husband got it
00:09:33
I'm stealing to college I feel excited
00:09:40
about college timeline cases has to be
00:09:48
removed from restrictions so we can
00:09:51
celebrate
00:09:53
[Music]
00:10:11
there is value on every title mine I
00:10:15
think that the way that he is applied
00:10:18
and the way that is used right now is
00:10:21
and I don't want to sound judgmental but
00:10:24
this sound that it is it's it's not
00:10:29
helping because the way that is used in
00:10:32
the way that this our sons are you know
00:10:37
accused using the title nine it's make
00:10:41
no sense somehow in this country we have
00:10:54
evolved into a sexual left and a sexual
00:10:57
right
00:10:58
the sexual right thinks that there is no
00:11:01
crisis and that most people who are
00:11:05
accused or falsely accused where the
00:11:07
left is very Pro victim and believes in
00:11:10
things like rape culture and the idea
00:11:12
that we need to fundamentally shift the
00:11:15
paradigm of male-female power in order
00:11:17
to create equity
00:11:18
[Music]
00:11:21
our society simply does not believe that
00:11:24
women tell the truth so I think it's
00:11:28
important that when we talk about this
00:11:30
issue we focus on the victims I
00:11:32
absolutely think that there has been a
00:11:35
significant increase in the lawsuits
00:11:38
filed by respondents there's no there's
00:11:39
no question about that I don't think
00:11:41
that's reflective of the fact that there
00:11:43
have been more false out allegations or
00:11:46
a higher rate of substantiating those
00:11:48
allegations against them I think it's
00:11:50
more the result of a highly motivated
00:11:52
and mobilized group of men's rights
00:11:55
activists and frankly I think that the
00:11:59
schools are far more concerned with
00:12:01
mitigating their liability their legal
00:12:04
liability because they are being sued by
00:12:06
respondents attorneys and I can tell you
00:12:08
from from having represented survivors
00:12:10
of sexual violence for a decade at this
00:12:12
point I've never had a client come to me
00:12:14
and say that their primary goal was to
00:12:16
punish the respondent their primary goal
00:12:19
is almost always to protect themselves
00:12:22
and to pretend or to protect other
00:12:24
people from the conduct that they're
00:12:26
worried about
00:12:26
so I don't share the view that there
00:12:29
needs to be changes to procedures to
00:12:33
increase due process for respondents I
00:12:36
think that already exists no your name
00:12:41
is a survivor and youth-led project of
00:12:43
advocates for youth so our team is built
00:12:46
up of mostly survivors ages 15 to 24 or
00:12:50
working across the country to empower
00:12:53
students to end sexual violence I think
00:12:54
that institutions at the end of the day
00:12:56
are businesses and so they will try to
00:12:59
advance their own interest and so we
00:13:04
recognize that students just want to be
00:13:06
safe what we're seeing is that the
00:13:08
saturnine process itself isn't the issue
00:13:11
it is the folks who are supposed to be
00:13:13
administering it in the way that they've
00:13:14
been told that they're supposed to and
00:13:16
seeing them not do their job seeing them
00:13:18
find loopholes see them be biased
00:13:20
towards respondents and also seeing
00:13:23
schools just have no interest in showing
00:13:25
up and the way that they are supposed to
00:13:48
for for all cases I would say 90% or
00:13:53
more our mail our mail accused students
00:13:57
and then there's some that are female
00:14:02
accused students know transgender and
00:14:05
I'm aware of but but same-sex couples or
00:14:10
same-sex interactions are now are an
00:14:12
issue so and that that raises an
00:14:16
interesting conundrum because if title 9
00:14:19
is supposed to make sure there's no
00:14:22
hostile environment based on gender if
00:14:25
you have people of the same gender it's
00:14:27
very difficult to say that you've
00:14:28
created a hostile environment based on
00:14:32
one gender over another gender so to be
00:14:35
clear a title 9 case is not exclusive to
00:14:37
sexual violence sexual violence is one
00:14:39
type of sexual harassment which is one
00:14:43
type of gender-based discrimination we
00:14:45
also represent and assist students who
00:14:48
are experiencing other types of
00:14:50
gender-based discrimination and I can
00:14:51
give you an example there are non-binary
00:14:54
students or transgender students who are
00:14:56
experiencing bullying harassment
00:14:58
misgendering discrimination other types
00:15:01
of violence also sexual violence because
00:15:04
of their status as a transgender person
00:15:06
or a non-binary person do you feel that
00:15:09
victims and survivors of sexual assault
00:15:12
who've gone through the title nine
00:15:14
process that they are heard more than
00:15:16
they used to be I don't see that
00:15:18
personally the schools have actually
00:15:21
swung the pendulum too far in the other
00:15:22
direction and they are incentivized to
00:15:25
find in favor of respondents that is
00:15:28
separate and apart in additional to the
00:15:31
motivation that they already have to
00:15:34
protect certain types of respondents
00:15:35
which we see all the time
00:15:37
for example student athletes
00:15:42
I'm here today because my sophomore year
00:15:44
I was raped by a fellow student athlete
00:15:46
so two weeks into my freshman year I was
00:15:51
raped by another student athletes I
00:15:54
reported it to the Dean of Students who
00:15:57
was in charge of title 9 reporting it
00:16:00
and didn't really help that all it kind
00:16:02
of made matters worse I feel like the
00:16:05
process was more harmful to me in a lot
00:16:08
of ways than what actually happened to
00:16:09
me they told me I couldn't go to the
00:16:12
City police I had to go to the on campus
00:16:14
police oh I didn't feel like I was safe
00:16:18
they switched the title 9 coordinator in
00:16:20
the middle of my process I had to go I
00:16:23
had to restart the entire process so
00:16:24
that was I meant reinvesting it in
00:16:26
everything in reap it's like opening
00:16:28
everything up and they kept reopening it
00:16:30
but they didn't really tell me why they
00:16:32
were reopening it the statements that I
00:16:35
had written before they all the times
00:16:37
wrong the dates wrong
00:16:38
they found him responsible twice and he
00:16:41
appealed it twice it seemed that nothing
00:16:46
was being resolved and there was it was
00:16:49
kind of stagnant because they have the
00:16:53
the mutual no contact orders so anyway
00:16:57
that he was I couldn't be anywhere that
00:17:00
I was he couldn't be I made it very
00:17:02
difficult for me to go out to go to
00:17:05
school even which was the main thing I
00:17:07
don't think that justice was served they
00:17:11
didn't even suspend him it is resolved
00:17:15
now yet but that was through an outside
00:17:19
settlement because the school never
00:17:21
finished it I had to eventually transfer
00:17:25
it to another school I haven't heard
00:17:28
anyone's experience with title 9 that
00:17:31
wasn't so traumatizing to them that they
00:17:34
felt like dropping out of school or
00:17:36
changing schools or like their school
00:17:38
wanted them to leave or their school was
00:17:40
just like mad at them for reporting area
00:17:42
acted like they were an issue at the end
00:17:45
of my second semester at this new school
00:17:47
something similar had happened and um
00:17:51
because of my lack of trust in the
00:17:55
system and me had had been gone through
00:17:57
that system before in knowing how how it
00:18:01
all play out like I don't feel confident
00:18:04
and going to report this because I know
00:18:07
that they're not gonna help me if
00:18:08
they're there to be impartial then they
00:18:11
should act impartial they shouldn't act
00:18:13
like we're bothering them by making them
00:18:16
do their jobs the focus is not on
00:18:18
whether or not someone was falsely
00:18:22
accused of a crime it's more whether or
00:18:25
not this particular type of school
00:18:29
misconduct occurred and whether or not
00:18:32
it is interfering with the victims
00:18:34
access to education it's important to
00:18:37
remember that we are not talking about a
00:18:40
crime I know that sexual assault is a
00:18:42
crime but that's not what we're talking
00:18:43
about we're not talking about criminal
00:18:45
procedures or protections that criminal
00:18:48
defendants are entitled to and that we
00:18:50
as a civil rights organization are 100
00:18:52
percent in support of
00:19:04
one thing I have come to believe is that
00:19:07
both sides can be genuinely equally
00:19:10
convinced that their version of events
00:19:12
is true that one side really believes
00:19:15
that the encounter was consensual and
00:19:17
the other side truly believes that it
00:19:19
was not and neither person is lying and
00:19:21
that makes these cases so incredibly
00:19:23
difficult to litigate and also for
00:19:26
anybody to decide the death penalty the
00:19:28
academic death penalty is expulsion
00:19:30
there's nothing to suggest that the
00:19:32
academic death penalty does anything to
00:19:35
promote the healing of the person who
00:19:37
was violated and so that's why I think
00:19:39
we really need to look seriously at some
00:19:41
kind of alternative to the way that
00:19:43
we're doing things now because I don't
00:19:44
think you'll find anybody who was going
00:19:46
to sit here and tell you with a straight
00:19:47
face that what we are doing right now
00:19:49
with title 9 on college campuses is
00:19:51
working
00:19:59
[Music]
00:20:00
so you have all these different actors
00:20:02
you have the federal government under
00:20:04
Obama saying okay colleges you have to
00:20:06
do it a certain way colleges complying
00:20:08
then new election new president new
00:20:11
Secretary of Education every survivor of
00:20:13
sexual misconduct must be taken
00:20:16
seriously
00:20:16
every student accused of sexual
00:20:19
misconduct must know that guilt is not
00:20:22
predetermined basically what happened
00:20:24
was that when Trump was elected he
00:20:27
appointed Betsy DeVos to be the
00:20:29
Secretary of Education she proposed
00:20:31
various regulations my assumption is
00:20:34
that when they are about to go into law
00:20:35
there will be a lawsuit to enjoin them
00:20:37
from going into effect and there will be
00:20:38
further litigation about whether or not
00:20:40
they'll ever actually be in place I
00:20:42
disagree with many of the proposed
00:20:44
regulations put forward by Betsy DeVos
00:20:46
an ER a disagrees with them very
00:20:48
strongly we have already sued the
00:20:50
Department of Education er a is one of
00:20:53
several co plaintiffs in a lawsuit filed
00:20:56
against the Department of Education
00:20:57
precisely for the rescission of the 2011
00:21:00
guidance and implementation of new
00:21:01
guidance so yes we would consider
00:21:05
bringing litigation looking ahead we are
00:21:08
confronted with the prospect of the
00:21:11
title nine rules that have been proposed
00:21:13
by the US Department of Education about
00:21:15
which we have very serious concerns so
00:21:18
this is difficult work for the
00:21:20
University of California and for
00:21:22
universities across the country there's
00:21:24
a lot of uncertainty there's a lot of
00:21:26
flux when Betsy DeVos proposed changes
00:21:29
to title 9 we began to see schools
00:21:32
immediately stop doing their job they
00:21:35
became lakhs on survivors rights we are
00:21:38
not seeing high levels of false reports
00:21:41
what we're actually seeing as survivors
00:21:42
coming forward trying to get basic
00:21:44
protections and accommodations to stay
00:21:46
in school being denied them and being
00:21:47
pushed out of school about a third of
00:21:49
survivors drop out of school I don't
00:21:51
know that you're ever going to get to a
00:21:53
point or ever have a system where
00:21:55
they're setting universal truth that's
00:21:57
magically arrived at I just don't think
00:21:59
that's possible on one hand you have
00:22:00
people screaming about rape apologists
00:22:02
and then on the other hand you have
00:22:03
people screaming about witch hunts and
00:22:05
this is exactly the problem and I just
00:22:06
don't think that it's helpful or
00:22:09
productive and all it does is divide
00:22:11
people even more
00:22:13
use them even more and take us further
00:22:15
away from the possibility of ever
00:22:17
agreeing on some kind of process that's
00:22:20
more likely to make both sides at least
00:22:23
somewhat healed or somewhat satisfied
00:22:25
walking away
00:22:28
you
00:22:45
[Music]
00:22:57
you
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