Hidden Patterns of the Real Estate Cycle |@Phil_J_Anderson & Chris Berg @CommercialRealEstateReport
Summary
TLDRThis video covers a conversation between Chris B, the host of the Commercial Real Estate Report, and Phil Anderson, the author of "The Secret Life of Real Estate and Banking." They discuss the predictability of the 18.6-year real estate cycle and its significance in economic forecasting and building generational wealth. Phil explains how understanding the cycle can guide investment decisions, offering a framework to navigate economic expansions and contractions. The conversation touches upon the history of the cycle, how the land market plays a critical role in economic trends, and the potential impacts of global events like wars. Phil advises on using this cycle as a tool to mitigate stress and improve investment outcomes. He emphasizes the importance of staying informed, managing investments wisely, and preparing for cyclical downturns. The discussion highlights how past cycle behaviors can predict future economic conditions and the need for investors to align their strategies with these cycles to optimize financial growth.
Takeaways
- 📘 The 18.6-year real estate cycle is a pivotal tool for forecasting economic trends.
- 📉 Understanding the cycle helps reduce investment stress and enhances decision-making.
- 🏘️ Land speculation and value significantly influence economic trends within this cycle.
- 📊 Historical data supports the cycle's predictability in forecasting market peaks and recessions.
- 🕰️ Timing is critical in leveraging the cycle for investment opportunities.
- 🏛️ Government policies and expenditures can affect but don't change the cycle's patterns.
- ⏳ The 'Winter's Curse' marks a critical phase of market corrections within the cycle.
- 🔍 Investors should focus on efficient debt management and strategic planning during downturns.
- 🌍 Events like wars might disrupt but don't necessarily stop the cycle.
- 💡 Phil Anderson emphasizes the need for investors to align strategies with the cycle for sustained growth.
Timeline
- 00:00:00 - 00:05:00
The introduction sets the stage for a discussion on the predictable nature of real estate cycles and wealth-building opportunities. The host, Chris, begins a conversation with Phil Anderson, the author of 'The Secret Life of Real Estate and Banking,' emphasizing the book's insights on ignoring media hype and identifying investment opportunities. The focus is on understanding the 18.6-year real estate cycle.
- 00:05:00 - 00:10:00
Phil Anderson shares the origins of his interest in economic cycles, sparked by his family's cyclical lingerie business and his education during an economic recession in the early 80s. This led him to analyze real estate cycles, inspired by Fred Harrison's predictions of real estate booms and busts, which accurately forecasted market downturns, leading to a significant successful investment by his family.
- 00:10:00 - 00:15:00
Anderson elaborates on his research into real estate cycles, utilizing historical data to identify an 18.6-year pattern of land value cycles in the U.S. Starting his business, he aimed to spread awareness of these cycles, despite initial skepticism from economists. He emphasizes the importance of understanding land values and economic rent, as reflected in his book.
- 00:15:00 - 00:20:00
Chris underscores the value of Anderson's book in calming market anxieties and reinforcing the link between land values and economic forecasts. Anderson mentions that stock markets precede real estate market shifts, suggesting that real estate cycles, particularly in the U.S., provide a reliable blueprint for economic trends.
- 00:20:00 - 00:25:00
Discussing the intricacies of the 18.6-year cycle, Anderson attributes it to earnings capitalization and banking practices around land values. He highlights the regularity of these cycles over centuries, strengthening the argument for recognizing and leveraging them for investment strategies, despite unpredictable shorter-term events.
- 00:25:00 - 00:30:00
Anderson delves into historical data supporting the real estate cycle, citing detailed studies of land values in Chicago and St. Louis. By mapping these cycles, he posits that a downturn typically follows a speculative boom, evidenced by real estate and government economic activities, including lavish constructions and policy changes, which are currently observable.
- 00:30:00 - 00:35:00
The discussion navigates timing investments—Anderson advises caution against over-leveraging at cycle peaks but doesn't necessarily advocate selling off properties. He suggests strategic financial positioning to capitalize on downturn opportunities, sharing personal strategies and historical examples from the cycle's past rounds.
- 00:35:00 - 00:40:00
Continuing, Anderson articulates the impact of market corrections on investment strategies, noting that land and property values will eventually decline, marking the end of the cycle. He stresses the importance of prudent investment during this phase to safeguard assets and position for future growth, as evidenced in historical cycles.
- 00:40:00 - 00:45:00
Expounding on past cycles disrupted by wars, Anderson assesses current global tensions against historical precedents, noting that such events typically don't cause downturns. He observes that the economic fundamentals usually remain stable, with conflict potentially accelerating some economic activities instead.
- 00:45:00 - 00:50:00
Phil explores the societal implications of cyclical downturns enhanced by technological advancements such as AI. He warns of the efficiency-driven pressures that could exacerbate economic hardships, illustrating the critical need for strategic planning and cash reserves to mitigate undesirable impacts during downturns.
- 00:50:00 - 01:00:10
Concluding, Anderson reflects on personal investment strategies in preparation for the next downturn. He stresses positioning oneself to take advantage of a post-peak market, encouraging long-term planning and the avoidance of rushed, emotion-driven decisions. The discussion wraps up with reflections on economic insights and future planning in anticipation of real estate cycles.
Mind Map
Video Q&A
What is the 18.6-year real estate cycle?
It is a predictable economic cycle identified in real estate trends, occurring approximately every 18.6 years.
Who is Phil Anderson?
Phil Anderson is the author of 'The Secret Life of Real Estate and Banking' and a guest on the show.
How does the 18.6-year cycle help investors?
By understanding the cycle, investors can make informed decisions, potentially leading to improved investment outcomes and reduced stress.
Why is land a key indicator in economic cycles?
Land value and speculative activities significantly influence economic trends and can predict upcoming recessions.
What historical evidence supports the 18.6-year cycle?
Research and historical data since 1800 show consistent land speculation peaks every 18.6 years.
How can current economic activities affect this cycle?
Global events like wars or economic policies can disrupt but generally do not prevent the cycle.
What is the ‘Winter’s Curse’ in the context of real estate cycles?
It refers to a phase in the second half of the real estate cycle where intense market correction often leads to downturns.
How important is timing when investing in real estate according to Phil Anderson?
Timing is crucial; understanding and leveraging the cycle helps in making better investment decisions.
What role does government policy play in the real estate cycle?
Government expenditure and policy can amplify trends within the cycle but do not change its overall pattern.
How should investors prepare for downturns in the real estate cycle?
Investors should manage debt effectively, prepare for market corrections, and use these times for strategic acquisitions.
View more video summaries
- 00:00:00is there a predictable real estate cycle
- 00:00:02that can help you build wealth we're
- 00:00:04talking about that more tonight here on
- 00:00:05the commercial real estate report I'm
- 00:00:07your host chrisb the mission of this
- 00:00:09show is to empower you to build
- 00:00:11generational wealth with real estate and
- 00:00:13today we're going to dive into that with
- 00:00:15a very special guest um he is the author
- 00:00:17of this book it's called The Secret Life
- 00:00:19of real estate and banking um couple
- 00:00:21things I want to share with you about
- 00:00:22this book I picked it up about a year
- 00:00:24ago and Phil one of the things I love
- 00:00:26about your book is that after you read
- 00:00:28it like you can't see what you've been
- 00:00:31shown in this book so helps you become a
- 00:00:33better investor helps you sort of ignore
- 00:00:35some of the media headlines and one
- 00:00:37other anecdote about the book it was
- 00:00:38copyright in 2008 Phil says in the book
- 00:00:42hey you're ready there's going to be a
- 00:00:43lot of opportunity for Real Estate
- 00:00:44investments in 2010 so somewhat pressure
- 00:00:47there um so there's just a lot of
- 00:00:50exciting things what I want to do
- 00:00:51tonight is I want to dive into the
- 00:00:52Genesis of this book um the how and why
- 00:00:55of an 18.6 year predictable real estate
- 00:00:58cycle uh where we're at today maybe even
- 00:01:00more importantly where are we headed and
- 00:01:03how bad are things going to get when
- 00:01:05things go in another or bad Direction so
- 00:01:08with us tonight the author of this book
- 00:01:09he's also the managing director of
- 00:01:11property share market economics great
- 00:01:13economic forecasting newsletter Phil
- 00:01:16Anderson Phil it is great to have you
- 00:01:18with us and thank you for all the work
- 00:01:19you put into this book yeah hi Chris
- 00:01:22that's uh it's good to be here
- 00:01:25so let's get into um one the Genesis of
- 00:01:29the book and then just the how and why
- 00:01:31of this predictable based on your
- 00:01:33research uh real estate
- 00:01:36cycle well yes uh you know it's funny we
- 00:01:42used to have a family business it was uh
- 00:01:45it was um it was started by my father
- 00:01:49and this goes back into the the the late
- 00:01:52well the mid 1970s really and then
- 00:01:54forwarding through to the 1980s and we
- 00:01:57were in the the uh ladies lingeray
- 00:02:01fashion business and uh it's cyclical
- 00:02:05clearly fashion goes in and out and one
- 00:02:08of the things was about our business um
- 00:02:11for some reason Ladies by no lipstick
- 00:02:14and lingerie in the downturn often they
- 00:02:17seem to know when one's coming and our
- 00:02:19business being in that side of things
- 00:02:21lingerie and and embroidery and things
- 00:02:24we had a more profitable business
- 00:02:27sometimes or at least in a downturn more
- 00:02:29profitable than some other businesses
- 00:02:31because of that particular fact so it
- 00:02:32was always intrigued me about the whole
- 00:02:35up and down of the economy and and what
- 00:02:38people do in and out of
- 00:02:40recessions and then um uh you know I
- 00:02:43went through I went through college in
- 00:02:46University and I I did my economics
- 00:02:48degree and this is we're talking late
- 00:02:5070s early 80s and you know for people
- 00:02:53who may recall that that the the early
- 00:02:5680s were serious um recession in the
- 00:02:58United States and uh as it h you know my
- 00:03:02economics professors they they they just
- 00:03:05couldn't answer the questions that I had
- 00:03:07you know back then uh it was all about
- 00:03:10the Philips curve which said that you
- 00:03:12you can't have high unemployment and
- 00:03:13high un inflation at the same time which
- 00:03:15of course you know late 70s inflation at
- 00:03:1815% unemployment at 12% it just it just
- 00:03:21didn't make sense to me but then um I
- 00:03:25decided i' I'd travel around the world
- 00:03:26for for a new T and see if I could find
- 00:03:29out the and various things and uh then
- 00:03:33the downturn of the well first up the
- 00:03:35the big bur 19 8788 89 then downtown of
- 00:03:401991 uh and I happened to come across a
- 00:03:42book it was I've actually I've actually
- 00:03:45got it here it was a was a book by a
- 00:03:47book by Fred Harrison called the power
- 00:03:48in the land and wrote that book
- 00:03:531983 forecasting a big huge boom in the
- 00:03:57UK for 1989 and then I
- 00:04:00collapse of the economy between at the
- 00:04:03peak of 1989 to the bottom of 1991 now
- 00:04:06he did that seven years in advance and
- 00:04:08uh so was that was uh really important
- 00:04:12from my point of view from our family's
- 00:04:13point of view because with our ler
- 00:04:16business we had a fairly profitable
- 00:04:18business in that particular quite
- 00:04:19serious
- 00:04:20downturn the uh the one of the banks
- 00:04:23that was just that was having a hard
- 00:04:25time in you we're talking in Melbourne
- 00:04:27Australia uh they they came to us
- 00:04:29because they knew my they knew a family
- 00:04:31business and you know all the family
- 00:04:33were working in the business and they uh
- 00:04:36they were trying to get all their loans
- 00:04:38off their books and trying to make their
- 00:04:40their non-performing loans performing
- 00:04:43and so we get we had a chance to supply
- 00:04:4721 commercial buildings right this is
- 00:04:49It's a fairly big fairly big thing and
- 00:04:52and we're right in the middle of a
- 00:04:53downtown and we did not we it was a very
- 00:04:56difficult decision because the the the
- 00:04:58commercial buildings didn't have any
- 00:05:00tenants which means which meant we had
- 00:05:01to pay the upkeep of the of the of the
- 00:05:04portfolio from profits of the business
- 00:05:06right and then you know I had Fred
- 00:05:08Harrison's Book in my hand and I I just
- 00:05:10simply went to the family we had a
- 00:05:11family meeting I said and I said Mom Dad
- 00:05:14kids um if if this guy Fred Harrison R
- 00:05:17never met I didn't know who who it was
- 00:05:20at the time if this guy's right we're at
- 00:05:22the bottom of an 18.6 year real estate
- 00:05:24cycle no and know we went ahead we made
- 00:05:28the purchase you can imagine how that's
- 00:05:30been all because of knowledge of a 18.6
- 00:05:33real estate cycle uh know one thing led
- 00:05:35to another the the the we ended up uh
- 00:05:38getting some tenants for all the all the
- 00:05:41properties we we sold off a little bit
- 00:05:43of them to make it uh less loans we had
- 00:05:46outstanding on the existing buildings
- 00:05:48that we that we jeed and you know from
- 00:05:50that time you know how you know have
- 00:05:51properties G up since then right and so
- 00:05:54then I sort of you know one thing L to
- 00:05:56another and various things which I won't
- 00:05:58go into but I had the chance with the
- 00:06:01information I saw in Fred to start my
- 00:06:03own business so I decided to research us
- 00:06:07real estate because this guy Fred Arison
- 00:06:09had done the ubby and and you wouldn't
- 00:06:12believe it but
- 00:06:14but the the first the first research I
- 00:06:18did and of course this is you know we're
- 00:06:20talking pre- interet right this is no
- 00:06:23you can't recall just how difficult it
- 00:06:25was to research and I'm sitting in a
- 00:06:26library in in Mourne Australia right
- 00:06:29insignificant Backwater right it's got
- 00:06:31nothing to do with the United States
- 00:06:32trying to research us information so I
- 00:06:34had to borrow a book from the Library of
- 00:06:36Congress get it sent to Australia then
- 00:06:38return it yeah you just you know you
- 00:06:40can't imagine that
- 00:06:41anymore turns out the first thing I saw
- 00:06:44I I I I did I did um the land value
- 00:06:49research um land figures in the United
- 00:06:51States and you just wouldn't believe it
- 00:06:54but but land speculation in the United
- 00:06:56States from 1800 progressed in 18.6 year
- 00:07:00real estate the 18.6 cycle so land land
- 00:07:04speculation piqued every 18 years it was
- 00:07:06just unbelievable so then I thought well
- 00:07:08I had I've got nuts and bols here of a
- 00:07:10of a um of a uh business that I could
- 00:07:14run on my own independent from what the
- 00:07:16family was doing to provide information
- 00:07:18especially to us people because you know
- 00:07:20the US are Comm biggest in the worlds
- 00:07:22where all the money is right so I
- 00:07:23thought well if that's where the money
- 00:07:24is let's let's go that way it's just
- 00:07:26been unbelievable since and as as the
- 00:07:28cycle developed from
- 00:07:301991 uh as we went into the top in
- 00:07:332007 I was ready for that top I knew it
- 00:07:36I knew it was coming so you know it's
- 00:07:38been a progression from there and then
- 00:07:41the problem is when when leading from
- 00:07:43that so I sort of had a bu a business I
- 00:07:45could talk some information but what
- 00:07:47what staggered me was I was finding that
- 00:07:50nobody was tending to believe it when I
- 00:07:53when I thought about things because the
- 00:07:56problem is um you know if I can take a
- 00:07:59minute just one minute more to finish
- 00:08:01off you like the first question if if uh
- 00:08:05if you take a pen here right and and and
- 00:08:08if I was to drop this pen as you know we
- 00:08:11the law of gravity says it's going to
- 00:08:13it's going to fall this way and no no
- 00:08:16scientist worth anything would say well
- 00:08:18no that's not actually right it's
- 00:08:19actually you drop it it'll go up it's
- 00:08:21yes when I come on yeah you know when I
- 00:08:23talk talk in front of the public and you
- 00:08:25know talking to you now and and all the
- 00:08:27people listening and I start talking
- 00:08:29about
- 00:08:30uh real estate cycle I just I just sound
- 00:08:34like another forecaster another
- 00:08:36prognosticator uh talking about the the
- 00:08:39cycle and you know I've got my I've got
- 00:08:41my forecast for you and you know
- 00:08:42forecaster a diamond dozen and various
- 00:08:44things like that right and that's so so
- 00:08:49I would urge listeners to try and try
- 00:08:51and weigh that up because there is there
- 00:08:54is a fundamental law in economics that
- 00:08:57is exactly the same for economics as
- 00:08:59gravity is for Science and it's it's
- 00:09:03it's it's David Ricardo back in 1810
- 00:09:05it's his law of economic rent uh and
- 00:09:07basically he's saying that the rent
- 00:09:09takes all the gains and so land value
- 00:09:10will always keep going up mostly subject
- 00:09:12to to declines here and there because of
- 00:09:14all the society's uh uh developments and
- 00:09:19and inventions and everything else that
- 00:09:20in the finish it doesn't lift wages it
- 00:09:23lifts land price and so when I went out
- 00:09:27and spoke to people about this I was
- 00:09:28getting a negative reaction from
- 00:09:30economists who would sit there like this
- 00:09:32in their seats and
- 00:09:33I so I write a book so so then I thought
- 00:09:36right I'd have to do a book and I I'd uh
- 00:09:39I put the book together it took me quite
- 00:09:41a number of years to end up getting it
- 00:09:42together it took me another few years to
- 00:09:44find a publisher uh and then you know
- 00:09:46now you have it so it was good I'm very
- 00:09:49glad I wrote it it it does it does lift
- 00:09:51credibility and profile and and I've had
- 00:09:54some fantastic feedback on it as you've
- 00:09:56noticed yourself once you once you once
- 00:09:59you get it once you see the cycle but
- 00:10:02not only not only just see the cycle but
- 00:10:04actually understand that it does that we
- 00:10:06do actually in the first place have to
- 00:10:07get a cycle and then then it is going to
- 00:10:10inevitably repeat once you see that you
- 00:10:12can't unsee it and and I've feedback
- 00:10:15I've had from the book like that people
- 00:10:17who write in than my members and
- 00:10:19subscribers uh they tell me the stories
- 00:10:21about when it first clicked for and when
- 00:10:23they first realized and then some people
- 00:10:25come up and tell me how uh how they've
- 00:10:27been able to then uh make their
- 00:10:30Investments and the biggest feedback I
- 00:10:32get is it it just it just calms people's
- 00:10:36level of stress in the economy and
- 00:10:39understanding the economy because they
- 00:10:40you really can you really can start to
- 00:10:43forecast the movement even more
- 00:10:45particularly especially in the United
- 00:10:47States because that's where that's where
- 00:10:49it all happens and that's where the
- 00:10:50cycle that's where the cycle begins and
- 00:10:53and ends and uh yeah so it's been it's
- 00:10:56been a wild ride so I want to touch on
- 00:10:59the how and why of the 18.6 years in a
- 00:11:01moment but but you're alluding to
- 00:11:02something that I really appreciate
- 00:11:04because even though the last few days
- 00:11:05and if you want to speak to this please
- 00:11:06do so but you know everyone's hair is on
- 00:11:08fire and because of reading your book
- 00:11:10being a newsletter member I've been
- 00:11:12pretty calm like yeah it's kind of a
- 00:11:14little bit probably a little correction
- 00:11:15and I say that because one of the things
- 00:11:17you repeat in the book is hey look if
- 00:11:19you ever listen to a forecaster that
- 00:11:21doesn't tie it to land don't listen to
- 00:11:23anything like ignore them because they
- 00:11:25don't get it so speak to you touch on a
- 00:11:28bit but why is land piece so important
- 00:11:31um you've also said in the book that hey
- 00:11:32land is a great predictor of an upcoming
- 00:11:34recession you said land typically tops
- 00:11:36out 12 to 24 months before an incoming
- 00:11:39recession so how do you determine if
- 00:11:41lands at its top price or not yes well
- 00:11:44that's the thing that the stock market
- 00:11:45is big but but the actual the actual
- 00:11:49rent of land the actual real estate
- 00:11:50Market's way bigger and that has the
- 00:11:54that has the major effect on the various
- 00:11:57things and with the with the stock
- 00:11:59market the stock market is where
- 00:12:01everything is priced in quickly and
- 00:12:04first uh but it will get ahead of itself
- 00:12:07sometimes uh and then as it's done over
- 00:12:11the last couple of months uh when
- 00:12:14something comes up to slightly rethink
- 00:12:17the the reason why it got ahead of
- 00:12:18itself the stock market has to make a
- 00:12:20fairly quick adjustment which it's doing
- 00:12:22the last couple of days um and everybody
- 00:12:26everybody gets nervous and worried
- 00:12:28because can sometimes be a fairly large
- 00:12:31correction in a in a number of days but
- 00:12:33that's what the stock market does um and
- 00:12:35it's only pricing in it's only pricing
- 00:12:37in the next couple of months and that's
- 00:12:39not the bigger picture and uh one of the
- 00:12:43things that can help you which is what I
- 00:12:45do for my subscribers I I try to teach
- 00:12:48them how to read a chart and so if I can
- 00:12:50refer to back back what happened in in
- 00:12:552023 back in
- 00:12:57March uh despite the fact that we had a
- 00:13:00silicon Belly Bank um uh you know um
- 00:13:05look like it microw had a business and
- 00:13:08you know there were fears that uh that
- 00:13:09it might be contagious and it might
- 00:13:11bring back memories of what happened
- 00:13:142007 uh some of the other rest of the
- 00:13:16market particularly housing stocks and
- 00:13:18if you if you're able to look at charts
- 00:13:21uh for people listening to this and
- 00:13:23watching um back in March 20
- 00:13:272023 and then for the next month or to
- 00:13:29April May housing stocks started
- 00:13:31breaking up into all-time new
- 00:13:33highs um which was the market telling
- 00:13:35you that despite what was going on with
- 00:13:37Sil in belly Bank uh earnings of housing
- 00:13:40stocks were actually going to increase
- 00:13:41over the next couple of months so if you
- 00:13:43could actually see that within the
- 00:13:44construct of a real estate cycle that
- 00:13:47development in the stock market was
- 00:13:48telling you that we were about to enter
- 00:13:51the final stages of the real estate
- 00:13:52cycle so sort of what I try to do is get
- 00:13:55people to see to understand the real
- 00:13:57estate cycle first and then and then
- 00:13:59have a go looking what happens in the
- 00:14:02stock markets
- 00:14:04because you can use some of the you can
- 00:14:07use the stocks in the stock market to
- 00:14:09help you determine where you are in the
- 00:14:11real estate cycle as long as you've
- 00:14:12understood the real estate cycle first
- 00:14:14and how the real estate cycle moves and
- 00:14:17so um one of the things that was uh
- 00:14:20fantastic about the United States when
- 00:14:22we started doing my research is that uh
- 00:14:25the the US has has has information on
- 00:14:28just about any anything and everything
- 00:14:31uh and also there's been quite a number
- 00:14:33of people that have done research and
- 00:14:35various things on uh all sorts of varied
- 00:14:39and wonderful and exotic uh interesting
- 00:14:41um areas of of information right so um
- 00:14:45there were two guys back in the
- 00:14:471930s H ho out of Chicago and Roy wliy
- 00:14:53in St Louis and H H Hoy wrote a
- 00:14:57university thesis which was which was
- 00:14:59thesis was published in 1933 as a book
- 00:15:02100 Years of land values in Chicago I
- 00:15:04urge people to read all Real Estate
- 00:15:06Investors should have that on the on
- 00:15:08their in their library because it
- 00:15:10explains how Chicago nowhere else but
- 00:15:13just
- 00:15:14Chicago uh went through Cycles from
- 00:15:18about 1820 something when it was founded
- 00:15:20till about
- 00:15:221933 and the reason why hom Hoy was able
- 00:15:25to research so much about Chicago real
- 00:15:28estate because there was a guy this is
- 00:15:30unbelievable really there was a guy
- 00:15:31called George Al George Alin that
- 00:15:34decided in his lifetime he would keep a
- 00:15:36record of every single real estate
- 00:15:38transaction that took place in Chicago
- 00:15:40and you published them in What's called
- 00:15:41the B books when can you imagine that
- 00:15:43just spending your entire life recording
- 00:15:45real estate deeds and and what the sale
- 00:15:48price and what happened but fortunately
- 00:15:49it did because it enabled hom to produce
- 00:15:51a great thesis on um on real estate and
- 00:15:54sickly cool stuff on it and then there
- 00:15:56was uh Roy wnli in St Louis that he was
- 00:16:00probably the world's first economic
- 00:16:02forecaster he showed the the real estate
- 00:16:04cycle in St Louis and you put them to
- 00:16:07together especially what H did that
- 00:16:09enabled me then to construct sort of
- 00:16:11like a a clock for Real Estate that
- 00:16:14showed you from the bottom what happens
- 00:16:17on a on a on a basis of of uh sort of
- 00:16:21like a yearly basis from one year to the
- 00:16:24next within that 18.6 year cycle and
- 00:16:27once you once you can see that it's just
- 00:16:29it's unbelievable how it moves and I
- 00:16:30know you yourself have seen it you you
- 00:16:32get to see so when we're in the second
- 00:16:34half of a real estate sof you get tour
- 00:16:36building start to open up you get
- 00:16:38leverage government expenditure and then
- 00:16:39you get a frenetic real estate market
- 00:16:41and that's exactly what's been happening
- 00:16:43I mean it's just absolutely a down so
- 00:16:45let's jump into that if you can share so
- 00:16:47this I want to let our audience know
- 00:16:48this is from a webinar that you did for
- 00:16:50people that are members of the property
- 00:16:52share market economics
- 00:16:54newsletter keio Patel up in the corter
- 00:16:56bit he does a nice job of just
- 00:16:58graphically laying now you know where
- 00:17:00we're at which is the Green Dot where he
- 00:17:01believes we're at today but before we
- 00:17:04get to that if you can just talk about
- 00:17:05why 18.6 years like what's happening
- 00:17:08within the banking system or however you
- 00:17:10want to explain the thesis but why 18.6
- 00:17:13years well it's all based on earnings
- 00:17:18now if I can if I can talk about a um a
- 00:17:22stop for a minute um nobody tends to
- 00:17:25have any trouble with say I don't know
- 00:17:27you pick a pick a famous stock like
- 00:17:31um I don't know a bank one of the one of
- 00:17:33the big Banks um they
- 00:17:36earn they earn profits and uh the stock
- 00:17:40market will break that down as a as
- 00:17:42earnings per
- 00:17:43share um and people generally tend to
- 00:17:47understand that the price of that share
- 00:17:48is going to be a multiple of the
- 00:17:50earnings and so generally Banks big
- 00:17:53Banks priced at about 12 times earnings
- 00:17:56per share so in other words if if you
- 00:17:58buy a a share of um of Goldman sex or
- 00:18:02something let's say it's 100 bucks or
- 00:18:03whatever it is and it pays a dividend to
- 00:18:06you every every year and if the earnings
- 00:18:08if it's based on on 20 times earnings
- 00:18:10then it's going to be 20 years to get
- 00:18:12your money back well you can you you can
- 00:18:15actually apply the same thing to to real
- 00:18:18estate or to land and land is the price
- 00:18:21of a of a of a an appraised plot is
- 00:18:24usually about 20 times its earnings and
- 00:18:26so it's the it's the cap capitalization
- 00:18:29of those earnings into a price that
- 00:18:30generally will give rise to a real
- 00:18:33estate cycle because uh we are allowing
- 00:18:36private individuals to take that rent so
- 00:18:38they buy and sell um you then get the
- 00:18:42the situation where
- 00:18:45um uh Banks then enter the situation
- 00:18:48with uh their credit that they create
- 00:18:51their credit based on based on on the
- 00:18:54the land value and so that then will you
- 00:18:58as I've showed in my book that it's the
- 00:19:01how much credit gets created against the
- 00:19:04land price that will determine the
- 00:19:06volatility of the the upside and the
- 00:19:09downside and then once you get to see it
- 00:19:12the only question you've got to ask
- 00:19:14yourself after that is why the cycle is
- 00:19:16so regular it uh it's it's actually it's
- 00:19:19never really been shorter than 17 years
- 00:19:21and never longer than 21 as home W
- 00:19:23stated for Chicago but it really has
- 00:19:25since 1955 it's been almost been
- 00:19:27pinpoint perfect at around at 18 and a
- 00:19:30half years and so why we get 18 and a
- 00:19:34half well you know that's a that's a
- 00:19:37another thing it I think it's got
- 00:19:38something to do with the capitalization
- 00:19:40rate in other words the interest rate
- 00:19:41the long run interest rate is generally
- 00:19:43about
- 00:19:445% and so at an interest rate of 5% if
- 00:19:48you invest at 5% it takes 14 years to
- 00:19:50get your money back and so that has
- 00:19:52generally I think led to 14 years of
- 00:19:54rising prices within the the actual real
- 00:19:56estate cycle itself and if you go back
- 00:19:59certainly in my book I've done this
- 00:20:01since 1800 and once Akil my my
- 00:20:04co-director business partner he put that
- 00:20:06in probably what looks like a better
- 00:20:07graph which is the one you've got in
- 00:20:08front of
- 00:20:09you it really has um since when when the
- 00:20:14land price Bottoms in the United States
- 00:20:17and I know every State's different but
- 00:20:19has a homogeneous uh uh type of taking
- 00:20:23all of of the land in the US all at once
- 00:20:27uh generally the cycle has the cycle has
- 00:20:31um taken about seven years from the
- 00:20:35bottom and so when when Real Estate
- 00:20:37bottom in 2012 in the United States all
- 00:20:41we all we were able to do was quite
- 00:20:43simple based on past Cycles uh you add
- 00:20:45seven years to the bottom that'll take
- 00:20:47you up to the top of the the first half
- 00:20:49of the cycle so this this graph we have
- 00:20:51in front of you AR did that he did that
- 00:20:53in 2014 it's not something we just
- 00:20:55created today which suggested that we
- 00:20:58would get a uh a a real estate the first
- 00:21:01half of the real estate cycle would Peak
- 00:21:03around about the top the end of 2019 we
- 00:21:06would then get a Slowdown something
- 00:21:08something would cause that slowdown to
- 00:21:09happen that would be into 2021 after
- 00:21:12which we'd get another seven six and a
- 00:21:14half seven years up um take us into 2025
- 00:21:182026 I think it'll be
- 00:21:202026 and you know I he's described there
- 00:21:23what happens during the cycle and at the
- 00:21:25moment
- 00:21:26currently uh where the dot is that's
- 00:21:29where we think we are at the moment
- 00:21:30which I think is probably once you see
- 00:21:32the cycle it's reasonably
- 00:21:34self-explanatory we're halfway through
- 00:21:35the next second half second half the
- 00:21:38second expansion and it's it's in the
- 00:21:41second half that you get looser monetary
- 00:21:43policy uh we start to get a construction
- 00:21:46boom uh countries around the world VI
- 00:21:49for the tallest building and that you
- 00:21:51can see that's going on in right now
- 00:21:53it's been quite unbelievable I noticed
- 00:21:56of all things the Oklahoma of come out
- 00:21:58and announce that the world they're
- 00:22:00going to build the world's tallest
- 00:22:02building I've got no idea why it would
- 00:22:03be Oklahoma I've got no idea what what's
- 00:22:05happening there but but it must be
- 00:22:07something because they're I reckon
- 00:22:08they're going to build the world world's
- 00:22:10tallest and so uh the competition starts
- 00:22:13and then you end up usually at the same
- 00:22:15time you you every single cycle it's
- 00:22:17been the same every sing Single cycle
- 00:22:19since about 1900 lavish government
- 00:22:21expenditure comes out for the government
- 00:22:22because they've got to keep things
- 00:22:24sticking over and they don't want
- 00:22:25revolutions various things and so we see
- 00:22:27a lot of expenditure on and in this case
- 00:22:30in in the United States in this
- 00:22:31particular cycle it's turned up it's
- 00:22:34it's uh it's quite quite lavish
- 00:22:37government subsidies from the um from
- 00:22:39the Biden
- 00:22:40Administration you know and uh that
- 00:22:43regardless of what happens with the
- 00:22:45election coming up should it be run by
- 00:22:47the Democratic side um they'll continue
- 00:22:49those policies if it ends up with the
- 00:22:51Republican side you can see what's
- 00:22:52already coming tax cuts and various
- 00:22:55things which will which will just push
- 00:22:57the cycle even higher so so let me ask
- 00:23:01you this if you can act as my coach for
- 00:23:03a moment um you know we develop Self
- 00:23:05Storage I'm an acquisition so I'm the
- 00:23:07person that's out buying the land so as
- 00:23:09we're putting together our portfolio
- 00:23:11based on your real estate cycle when
- 00:23:13would you say is like let's say we've
- 00:23:15got four to eight beautiful self- stored
- 00:23:17sites what would be the ideal time to
- 00:23:19sell those to maximize the
- 00:23:22premium well that's uh that's not always
- 00:23:26an easy question because because I don't
- 00:23:29know the circumstances of every
- 00:23:31individual investor and um uh I'm not
- 00:23:35necessarily always trying to suggest
- 00:23:38that uh with existing portfolio and
- 00:23:41existing Holdings you try and time the
- 00:23:42cycle exactly uh the purpose of of where
- 00:23:46we are at now and the and the the guide
- 00:23:50to the cycle that you've got in front of
- 00:23:51you from from about this year going
- 00:23:55forward uh and and then certainly uh as
- 00:23:58we go into the the what I think will be
- 00:24:00the peak
- 00:24:022026 because history shows that a fairly
- 00:24:06significant land price lead recession
- 00:24:08happens at the end of every 14 years up
- 00:24:11now is not the time to be attempting to
- 00:24:16establish a really big portfolio if you
- 00:24:20have to do it 100% geared and then
- 00:24:23borrow even more money from another bank
- 00:24:25to make sure you get the process and
- 00:24:27make sure to do everything else it's
- 00:24:28it's not the time to begin something now
- 00:24:31uh going in massively
- 00:24:34geared now whether it's the time for an
- 00:24:38existing portfolio to sell it all well
- 00:24:41I've always thought myself and with our
- 00:24:43with our portfolio we've got in with our
- 00:24:46family we're not sellers um we've been
- 00:24:50uh we've been buyers over the cycle but
- 00:24:53but we're happy with the with what we've
- 00:24:55got all we've tried to do going into
- 00:24:58every Peak you know we saw we saw 2007
- 00:25:0289 coming is uh just pay down our
- 00:25:05gearing a little bit so that when the
- 00:25:08when the eventual downturn does happen
- 00:25:11you actually you look good for the bank
- 00:25:14because during those times of the
- 00:25:16downturn the the bank is trying to
- 00:25:17offload non-performing assets so if you
- 00:25:20look good to the bank you stand a better
- 00:25:22chance of picking up some of those
- 00:25:23assets at at at very good discounts and
- 00:25:28so so I'm not I'm not I'm not suggesting
- 00:25:30that we should try and buy the bottom
- 00:25:32and sell everything at the top but as we
- 00:25:34go over the next couple of years it is
- 00:25:36in my opinion the time to be putting
- 00:25:40your house in order and putting your
- 00:25:42portfolio in order and you you uh you
- 00:25:44present it you try to present yourself
- 00:25:46in a very effective well-run light uh
- 00:25:49well-run um uh position so the banks can
- 00:25:52see that you're you're running a very
- 00:25:54effective portfolio and so you just make
- 00:25:56yourself that it look as good as you can
- 00:25:59uh for the for the bank and that's the
- 00:26:02general idea so it's just trying to use
- 00:26:04the cycle um to your advantage I hope
- 00:26:07that makes sense for people I'm
- 00:26:09not I never created the cycle and wrot
- 00:26:12my book to try and show that you can buy
- 00:26:14everything at the bottom then sell it
- 00:26:15all at top you may try and you may try
- 00:26:17and work that out but then you've got
- 00:26:18tax considerations and everything else
- 00:26:20that happens right so so all that comes
- 00:26:22into play and uh I'm not an investment
- 00:26:25advisor so I don't know everybody's
- 00:26:26personal position but I I think you get
- 00:26:28the idea is this sort of the the EB and
- 00:26:30flow and so you know as you go into the
- 00:26:33peak of the cycle and I'm sure you're
- 00:26:34seeing at the moment with land prices so
- 00:26:36high um it's harder to try and make
- 00:26:38things work the yields compress uh and
- 00:26:41various things and you you end up if you
- 00:26:43want to get the land you want you
- 00:26:44sometimes you got to overpay for it well
- 00:26:45now's not really time to do that you
- 00:26:48you're try and save up for a good cash
- 00:26:50position a relatively good cash position
- 00:26:52because I think uh the next downturn
- 00:26:55which happens after 14 years up of land
- 00:26:57prices and that happens in 2026 that's
- 00:27:00when we reach the 14 the 14th year up
- 00:27:03after that land prices will be too high
- 00:27:05we should get the usual downturn it's
- 00:27:07happened 11 times since 7day 92 in the
- 00:27:10United States so uh there's fairly good
- 00:27:12odds that it's coming again I think it
- 00:27:15might be hard for some people to digest
- 00:27:17and based
- 00:27:18on this is based on what I'm reading
- 00:27:21this graphic is that if the Green Dot is
- 00:27:23where we're at and you think about our
- 00:27:25rates have gone up housing prices in the
- 00:27:27United States gone up dramatically since
- 00:27:29Co but what I'm hearing is says hey
- 00:27:31Chris we're just beginning like there's
- 00:27:33still another couple of years for these
- 00:27:34housing prices to escalate pretty
- 00:27:37rapidly is that a fair assessment on my
- 00:27:38part yes um I don't well it's you know
- 00:27:44if you go back and what what what
- 00:27:45happened let's just say people might
- 00:27:47have a memory of the priz cycle say from
- 00:27:49say from 2003 I mean you think about
- 00:27:53what was happening in 2001 we all
- 00:27:56remember n all the tragic events of 911
- 00:27:59and and then into 2002 and 2003 the the
- 00:28:03things that were happening in um in Iraq
- 00:28:05and in the Middle East I remember in
- 00:28:072003 having conversations with people we
- 00:28:10really thought the world was going to
- 00:28:11end in 2003 everything that was
- 00:28:13happening around the Middle East and and
- 00:28:15various things and then Afghanistan it
- 00:28:18was it was scary um you know what's
- 00:28:21going on at the moment I don't think has
- 00:28:22anything on on what had 2003 looked and
- 00:28:27then uh nobody thought that there'd be
- 00:28:29the massive boom that we got into 2005
- 00:28:32six and seven I remember uh I used to go
- 00:28:35to the United States yearly from about
- 00:28:371996 onwards because I was writing my
- 00:28:39book so I I'd pick a state that I'd go
- 00:28:42to the US usually summer time I'd pick a
- 00:28:45state that I'd go and travel through and
- 00:28:47try and sit down and write my book a bit
- 00:28:49for a month or so and I that was when I
- 00:28:52was studying you know back in 2004 or
- 00:28:55something like that I was in St Louis at
- 00:28:57the uh at the um Thomas Jefferson
- 00:29:00Library there they've got a they've got
- 00:29:02a whole room there on Roy wile's
- 00:29:04material you know I was I was at the
- 00:29:07airport and I was at one of the stations
- 00:29:08down there and uh 2005 and six um all
- 00:29:13you could see was what Paris Hilton was
- 00:29:15doing I mean she was the she was the
- 00:29:17flavor of the month if you can remember
- 00:29:19back that far and then in 2007 the
- 00:29:21iPhone H the markets and people went
- 00:29:23nuts I mean really really didn't so I'm
- 00:29:26seeing all that Echo with all of the
- 00:29:28artificial intelligence and everything
- 00:29:29that's happening at the moment you know
- 00:29:31there's a lot of money to be spent so it
- 00:29:34wouldn't be the first time if we things
- 00:29:36really progressed from here and
- 00:29:37everything got excited uh it was the
- 00:29:40same back in
- 00:29:421984 um 1983 8485 there were there were
- 00:29:45also Middle East troubles where were the
- 00:29:47United States was dealing with that that
- 00:29:49Troublesome dictator Saddam Hussein and
- 00:29:51what was going on in Iran you know
- 00:29:53things haven't changed that much really
- 00:29:56um and uh people were nervous back then
- 00:29:58and then we you know 1987 October 87 we
- 00:30:01got that Almighty stock market crash
- 00:30:03which if you I was trading back then I
- 00:30:05remember I remember it happened
- 00:30:07yesterday um the market the Dow came
- 00:30:10down by 50% in the space of know a week
- 00:30:14two weeks I mean it was a really big
- 00:30:16thing but real estate house prices they
- 00:30:20kept going up right into 198 88 89 right
- 00:30:24around the world it was just a really
- 00:30:26big uh spectal frenzy that was taking
- 00:30:29place and the Dow Dow recovered fairly
- 00:30:31quickly and here we are now we're
- 00:30:33worried about the same things and um you
- 00:30:36know how and crisis keep going up so
- 00:30:40that you know it's a it's an interesting
- 00:30:41question you ask because because
- 00:30:46um you have to ask yourself why and and
- 00:30:51I was I think if I may say so humbly I
- 00:30:55think which you can you can say for
- 00:30:59which I think you saw as a as a member
- 00:31:01of all the material I write all as a
- 00:31:03subscriber I think I was the only person
- 00:31:06in the world back in 2022 and 2023 that
- 00:31:10said as as interest rates went up and
- 00:31:13they went up fairly rapidly I said to
- 00:31:15everybody I knew that as interest rates
- 00:31:17went up house prices would continue
- 00:31:19going up yes now now I wasn't saying
- 00:31:22that there'd be some that it'd be fun
- 00:31:24for everybody that clearly there's been
- 00:31:26some trouble in various markets and
- 00:31:27people people who were you know it it
- 00:31:29did create a few problems for people
- 00:31:31which was unexpected and wasn't
- 00:31:32foreseeing but as a general rule if you
- 00:31:35look back since 1955 the FED Has Lifted
- 00:31:38rates 11 times and 11 of those times
- 00:31:43like exactly the same every time house
- 00:31:45prices continued to go up or stayed
- 00:31:47about the same level but never on any
- 00:31:49occasion fell
- 00:31:52and it it's just intrigued me why nobody
- 00:31:55can ever see their history like that and
- 00:31:58and if I you know again if I can say
- 00:32:02um economists you know the fed the FED
- 00:32:04has a thousand Economist working for
- 00:32:06them I believe um and this is because
- 00:32:09the the role of the land market it's
- 00:32:11been completely written out of the
- 00:32:14economic
- 00:32:15textbooks uh economics like that it has
- 00:32:18been corrupted before the first world
- 00:32:20war every Economist understood that
- 00:32:22there were three factors of production
- 00:32:24land labor and capital land in
- 00:32:26particular and people saw it them
- 00:32:28because most of the world were farmers
- 00:32:30and um and uh they they progressed from
- 00:32:35from from that but then after after the
- 00:32:38after the first world war generally what
- 00:32:40was happening from there um because
- 00:32:43there were so many sort of like in the
- 00:32:47late 1800s there were so many land
- 00:32:50reform movements that were happening um
- 00:32:53it was starting to threaten the
- 00:32:55established interests especially in the
- 00:32:58in the United Kingdom um so there was a
- 00:33:01job done on economics to to write land
- 00:33:04out of the equation and now all
- 00:33:07economists have taught that land is part
- 00:33:08of capital so it's just land and it's
- 00:33:10just labor and capital and so you miss
- 00:33:13you missed the whole thing uh about the
- 00:33:16role of land and then once you once the
- 00:33:18role once land is taken out you'll never
- 00:33:20get Tau it at the economics University
- 00:33:23um so you'll never have a chance to
- 00:33:24study it you'll you'll never you'll
- 00:33:26never start to interpret what the how an
- 00:33:29economy can be cyclical and it's a great
- 00:33:31shame because it's um it's uh it's been
- 00:33:34missed and so it it leads then for for
- 00:33:39people uh you know originally like
- 00:33:41myself and and like others uh you tend
- 00:33:44to make uh you you it's much easier to
- 00:33:47make poor investment decisions based on
- 00:33:50incomplete knowledge because the role of
- 00:33:52land's been written out of economics and
- 00:33:54so then when you get a downturn like we
- 00:33:56do at the a correction in the stock
- 00:33:59market you then have you know you start
- 00:34:01to get worried about oh what am I going
- 00:34:02to do what do I do with my investments
- 00:34:04what's land what's the economy going to
- 00:34:05do now and then you get economists come
- 00:34:07out and say well this it looks like
- 00:34:09we'll get yet another Obsession that's a
- 00:34:11you know they're forecasting so in your
- 00:34:13recessions all the time um what's a
- 00:34:15person to do so you know so so yeah so
- 00:34:20it's been so helpful for me and I I hear
- 00:34:22it from all my subscribers they they
- 00:34:24wrri in all the time and say Phil it's
- 00:34:26just taking all the stress away from him
- 00:34:28investing doesn't mean it's stress less
- 00:34:30obviously but but it just it just takes
- 00:34:32all the this the worry the day-to-day
- 00:34:35worry out of your um your investment
- 00:34:39making decisions yeah Phil I think one
- 00:34:42of the things that I'm just so grateful
- 00:34:43about the information you put out like I
- 00:34:45come from the media right so I was used
- 00:34:46to these day-to-day headlines and all
- 00:34:48the just fear and anger that gets seed
- 00:34:51into the Consciousness and when you
- 00:34:54understand the real estate site from the
- 00:34:55information you put out it allows just
- 00:34:57to sort of throw those headlines to like
- 00:35:00this doesn't mean anything does not
- 00:35:01really matter so I want to touch on this
- 00:35:04um you mentioned hey Chris there's been
- 00:35:06a repeat of the cycle since 1792 there's
- 00:35:09a couple times though it's been
- 00:35:10disrupted and that's by by War and you
- 00:35:12mentioned the Middle East I mean today
- 00:35:15Egyptian Airlines said hey don't fly
- 00:35:16over Iran tonight I mean do you see a
- 00:35:18potential of this cycle being
- 00:35:20disrupted well it's always possible I
- 00:35:23don't I don't have a day-to-day crystal
- 00:35:25ball as such I mean I've got my my my
- 00:35:27great uh working working model of of
- 00:35:31over an 18.6 year period but uh you know
- 00:35:35it's always possible um things can
- 00:35:37happen that just uh just uh you know
- 00:35:40hote heads and various things and you
- 00:35:42know the situation in the Middle East it
- 00:35:44does look it does look Grim yes but all
- 00:35:46I can say is if if people get a chance
- 00:35:48to to have a look at the you know in my
- 00:35:51book I document the 11 prior Cycles in
- 00:35:54some detail and you get to see that
- 00:35:57really this this current time it's never
- 00:35:58really been any different yeah now in
- 00:36:00the second half of the real estate cycle
- 00:36:03um there's a lot more money around a lot
- 00:36:05more rent has been manifest people chase
- 00:36:08that rent dictators come forward to
- 00:36:10capture that rent in various economies
- 00:36:12especially if their economy has a
- 00:36:13prodigious amount of resources like you
- 00:36:15see in say Argentina and other places
- 00:36:18like that
- 00:36:19um the uh the the the um Middle East
- 00:36:25empires of they're doing the same oil
- 00:36:28was discovered it's just one family
- 00:36:29after another that tries to get hold of
- 00:36:30it so so the the current drenal vents in
- 00:36:36in the Middle East it isn't really any
- 00:36:39different from what it's been like in
- 00:36:41other times at this part of the cycle um
- 00:36:45they had what did interrupt the cycle
- 00:36:46was the the first world war that
- 00:36:49happened uh that took that started right
- 00:36:51at the peak of that cycle that happened
- 00:36:53from about 1896 into
- 00:36:551914 and then um the second world war
- 00:36:58which I which I would really consider
- 00:37:00was a basic continuation of the first um
- 00:37:03that the first world war meant that uh
- 00:37:05we didn't really see the downturn from
- 00:37:07the prior upturn because the government
- 00:37:09took over and then um throughout after
- 00:37:12we had the the Great Depression after
- 00:37:14the really big huge uh during n during
- 00:37:171920s um after that downturn that that
- 00:37:20Dreadful downturn and the depression
- 00:37:22that led directly to the second world
- 00:37:24war and there was no cycle to speak of
- 00:37:27through that war because the US
- 00:37:28government forbid speculation and you
- 00:37:31couldn't buy and sell anything else
- 00:37:32except bonds and various things and the
- 00:37:34government was vying for your savings
- 00:37:36because uh they wanted they had a water
- 00:37:38fight so it's not quite the same at the
- 00:37:40moment but uh it is possible like that
- 00:37:43but and then if if if um hostilities did
- 00:37:47really break out in the Middle East um I
- 00:37:50don't really think it's it's not really
- 00:37:52going to create a downturn because war
- 00:37:55is generally profitable for business
- 00:37:58you know Commodities get bought and sold
- 00:38:00still um the only thing that might
- 00:38:03happen would be there'd be probably less
- 00:38:06speculation permitted if the government
- 00:38:08if the US government went all in because
- 00:38:09they'd be asking people to buy war bonds
- 00:38:11and various things like that so that
- 00:38:13tends to stoke up some of the excess
- 00:38:15speculative Capital but I it's I would
- 00:38:17be very surprised in fact I be the first
- 00:38:20time ever in history it would lead to a
- 00:38:21major downt I want to get into um the
- 00:38:24downt here so your suggest acas let's
- 00:38:26look into the TW 26 you think there's
- 00:38:28still going to be this what you call the
- 00:38:29Winter's curse and then post 2026 things
- 00:38:32will start to go towards a downt and my
- 00:38:35question for you is what do you think is
- 00:38:36going to be the Catalyst of that and I
- 00:38:38share that in the context of you know
- 00:38:40there's over $2.9 trillion dollars of
- 00:38:43commercial real estate LS that are
- 00:38:44coming due between 2024 and 2028 do you
- 00:38:48you feel like that's going to be the
- 00:38:49Catalyst or what do you what do you
- 00:38:51think uh not at the moment um you know
- 00:38:54if you we're at the same time of the
- 00:38:55cycle let's you know go back in um 2003
- 00:38:591983 84 we're talking you know 1967 68
- 00:39:04same time in the cycle like that right
- 00:39:06um there were also difficulties back
- 00:39:09then um at the moment there is obviously
- 00:39:13there are there are difficulties in um
- 00:39:15in the some commercial areas um I think
- 00:39:20for the moment uh around the world and
- 00:39:22in the US uh government will get a bit
- 00:39:25of a handle on that first because
- 00:39:26they'll be able to look in some
- 00:39:28particular areas and I think they're
- 00:39:29already possibly already doing this in
- 00:39:30Boston already some of the existing real
- 00:39:33estate buildings that are uh that are
- 00:39:35empty the government and the council the
- 00:39:38local government there they get the
- 00:39:39chance to perhaps at the
- 00:39:41moment convert or enforce conversion of
- 00:39:45those those commercial warehouses and
- 00:39:48various things into uh housing so that
- 00:39:51can take place also at the moment there
- 00:39:53there is still an enormous amount of
- 00:39:56cash around I think is it um is it
- 00:39:58Warren Buffett what's he was it what the
- 00:40:00figure they CED the other day 20 2
- 00:40:03billion cash yeah this is a lot of money
- 00:40:06I could do a right with that money Chris
- 00:40:08I tell you um Apple's Apple's got a lot
- 00:40:11of Apple's got a lot of money on their
- 00:40:13Microsoft they got a lot of cash
- 00:40:15available and there are still a lot of
- 00:40:16vulture funds around they will they will
- 00:40:19come in and they'll assess what those
- 00:40:21things are worth now and they'll work
- 00:40:22out whether they can convert it or buy
- 00:40:24in and put it to other uses or or
- 00:40:27whatever else that has to be done so all
- 00:40:29that's got to go through yet um I don't
- 00:40:32really see that too much as a problem I
- 00:40:34think the next move on interest rates
- 00:40:35will be down this will bring a lot more
- 00:40:37people into the market um the reason why
- 00:40:41the reason why it was suggested that the
- 00:40:43current time from about now into 2026
- 00:40:49which is what it was the prior cycle say
- 00:40:512005 into 2007 and say from uh 198 7
- 00:40:57into 1989 just go to go back a couple of
- 00:41:00Cycles the reason why we've called it
- 00:41:02the wind's curse phase is more to do
- 00:41:04with residential and anything else and
- 00:41:06so it is likely sometimes that it is it
- 00:41:09has been usual sometimes that uh the
- 00:41:12interest rates drop a little after they
- 00:41:14were lifted and where at that time where
- 00:41:16that may happen that will bring a lot
- 00:41:18more people into the market because uh
- 00:41:21housing housing itself but AKA land
- 00:41:23prices but housing has been become that
- 00:41:26much more unaffordable because morges
- 00:41:28did go up the government then tries to
- 00:41:32create all sorts of structures to to BR
- 00:41:34to to make housing more affordable so
- 00:41:37you see a lengthening in the mortgage
- 00:41:39process so we go from 10 or 20 or 30
- 00:41:42mortgages in Australia they're talking
- 00:41:44here now 50-year mortgages they'll do
- 00:41:46the same thing in the UK I think America
- 00:41:47will probably do something similar it
- 00:41:50may not happen from the major Banks but
- 00:41:52it'll probably happen from some of our
- 00:41:53friends lenders um and so that's one way
- 00:41:56to make housing more affordable that
- 00:41:59brings uh a lot more first home buyers
- 00:42:02into the market at what I would consider
- 00:42:03exactly the wrong time where we're going
- 00:42:05into the peak and so when the peak does
- 00:42:09happen which which at some point we must
- 00:42:11get some sort of downturn um very sort
- 00:42:14of people going into negative equity
- 00:42:16because they look brought at the peak
- 00:42:18and then um and then that's why we call
- 00:42:20it the winners curse so it's more from
- 00:42:21the residential point of view so it's
- 00:42:24you've got to be really careful now from
- 00:42:25the cyclical point of view about the mov
- 00:42:27you take out and and various things you
- 00:42:29just not want to be doing something you
- 00:42:30can't for so I want to talk about what
- 00:42:33you see coming so let's say we get
- 00:42:36through this cycle and all a sudden the
- 00:42:38downturn happens I want to share with
- 00:42:40you a clip from an interview that you
- 00:42:43did back in this is from
- 00:42:452023 I want to share with their audience
- 00:42:47what you said and then just give you a
- 00:42:49chance to add some context to it okay so
- 00:42:51this is you saying hey guys get ready
- 00:42:53you know once this peak hits be prepared
- 00:42:56and here's what you shared back into I I
- 00:42:58don't usually I don't usually rewatch my
- 00:43:00things this would be
- 00:43:01novel enjoy because it was good to find
- 00:43:04ways to avoid Revolution and that's when
- 00:43:07you start to see things really happen
- 00:43:09and it'll just the repeat for me the
- 00:43:11right um I'm telling you I'm telling
- 00:43:13your viewers get ready for what's coming
- 00:43:15after 2026 because every time there's a
- 00:43:18land price let downt the fundamentals
- 00:43:19change right and um the banks the banks
- 00:43:24will uh start using the the AI they'll
- 00:43:27they'll be be able to very well know
- 00:43:29what your personal circumstances are
- 00:43:31they'll be able to determine whether you
- 00:43:33should continue with the loan or not um
- 00:43:36landlords and Banks themselves they'll
- 00:43:37be able to use the AI on the phone U to
- 00:43:40to to say that if you can't end up
- 00:43:42paying your mortgage or you can't pay
- 00:43:43the rent um they'll be able to lock the
- 00:43:46house from the phone from your phone
- 00:43:48they'll be able to lock you out of your
- 00:43:49own premises probably um there'll be all
- 00:43:51sorts of Technology come through that
- 00:43:53that is going to make people's life
- 00:43:54really hard if you're too much debt I
- 00:43:58tell you um you know people can't see it
- 00:44:01but things turn when they do turn they
- 00:44:03turn vicious and that's when the the the
- 00:44:06technology that's been newly invented
- 00:44:08that's when it turns to its Dark Side um
- 00:44:11and it's used to uh throw people out of
- 00:44:13work throw people out of their homes and
- 00:44:15all sorts of other stuff and that's so I
- 00:44:18mean it's l said there what do you see
- 00:44:21happening in this downturn and how
- 00:44:22should people
- 00:44:24prepare yes well I think I said that
- 00:44:26before the AI stuff started really I
- 00:44:29think didn't I from from memory um so
- 00:44:33well see on the upside everything looks
- 00:44:35Rosy and everything looks fantastic and
- 00:44:38it's blue sky ahead but when the
- 00:44:40downturn starts taking place uh and as
- 00:44:43we get further into the
- 00:44:44downturn um corporations and individuals
- 00:44:48and Property Owners they and even the
- 00:44:51the property users they start to find
- 00:44:54that they've got space that they didn't
- 00:44:56think they had so they contract a little
- 00:44:58bit and they start doing more with less
- 00:45:01uh also I this time I think even more
- 00:45:06than any other time you know during Co
- 00:45:09we had to you had to people were able to
- 00:45:11work from home and I personally thought
- 00:45:13this was absolutely fantastic and I
- 00:45:15think you know a lot of people got used
- 00:45:16to it um and it was very difficult to
- 00:45:18entice people to come back to the office
- 00:45:20in the first instance um and people
- 00:45:23people found with the that's when we
- 00:45:24started using the technology in Earnest
- 00:45:26and and everything
- 00:45:28else and uh we were able to start doing
- 00:45:32things from home that we didn't think
- 00:45:34we'd ever do outside the office but uh
- 00:45:37when we get when the when the when the
- 00:45:39next downturn happens um if your job can
- 00:45:43be done from home it means it can also
- 00:45:45be done from any part of anywhere else
- 00:45:46in the world and so there'll be
- 00:45:48Outsourcing in Earnest and rather than
- 00:45:52paying like an American or an Australian
- 00:45:54weage which can be you know 10 20 30
- 00:45:58bucks an hour leading to you know the
- 00:45:59average whatever the average wage is um
- 00:46:02some of your jobs might be able to be
- 00:46:04done from say the Philippines or from
- 00:46:06India or other things yes and that can
- 00:46:08be done at $250 $3 an hour or whatever
- 00:46:10it is um so that's the first thing so if
- 00:46:13your job can be done at home it can also
- 00:46:15be outsourced to any part of the world
- 00:46:17that will start to happen in Earnest as
- 00:46:19corporations seek to um the reduce costs
- 00:46:23um not only that but uh I suspect with
- 00:46:26AI this time there'll be certain in
- 00:46:29there'll be certain industries but that
- 00:46:31just completely replaced by what AI can
- 00:46:34do that happens in Earnest when
- 00:46:36corporations really have to reduce costs
- 00:46:38they're not so much under pressure at
- 00:46:39the moment um because within with with
- 00:46:42the the lifting and cost and inflation
- 00:46:44and things it's quite easy for them to
- 00:46:46pass it on now but but but in the
- 00:46:49downturn it becomes that much harder to
- 00:46:52pass on cost so they've got to do cost
- 00:46:53savings otherwise and it's it's labor
- 00:46:56that that uh that uh Bears the the brunt
- 00:46:59of that um in addition as well you'll
- 00:47:03also you get the situation where um if
- 00:47:07people start to see that prices are
- 00:47:10going to be lower tomorrow than they are
- 00:47:13today and they stop buying and they wait
- 00:47:16and that's what happens initially with
- 00:47:17the housing market they start this when
- 00:47:19the turn happens people think well I'm
- 00:47:21not going to buy my house today because
- 00:47:23it's probably going to be cheaper
- 00:47:24tomorrow and so you get that per per of
- 00:47:27a year and a half whatever it is where
- 00:47:28just there's just buying dries up
- 00:47:30because people understand that prices
- 00:47:32could be lower so the the look of a
- 00:47:36downturn is fundamentally different to
- 00:47:37the upturn so uh you know I think this
- 00:47:40and the way the technology will be used
- 00:47:43um will be I think it's going to be
- 00:47:45difficult for people that are that can't
- 00:47:47pay their debts or owe a lot on houses
- 00:47:49and cars because there'll be new ways to
- 00:47:51there'll be new ways to to uh to uh get
- 00:47:55the assets breing so just to summarize
- 00:47:58for people as they can get a feel for
- 00:47:59the cycle um your Sugg in acas we still
- 00:48:02got a couple years of the winters curse
- 00:48:03where prices are going to go
- 00:48:05precipitously then look at you know mid
- 00:48:072026 and Beyond the downt to start then
- 00:48:11just get ready and be prepared to deploy
- 00:48:13some capital and get some good deals is
- 00:48:14that a fair assessment well if if the
- 00:48:17Real Estate Circle is to repeat that's
- 00:48:20how it's going to repeat and uh you know
- 00:48:22as you've seen um I've called the repeat
- 00:48:25starting in 200 12 I said we go the way
- 00:48:28the clock done has done and it did do it
- 00:48:30and the current events where we are at
- 00:48:32the moment I put of 20203 2024 where
- 00:48:36we'd be getting leverage government
- 00:48:37expenditure and and the competition for
- 00:48:39the world's tallest um you know I I put
- 00:48:42that on my clock 2014 I said in 2014
- 00:48:46that's what would be happening in 2023
- 00:48:492024 uh and it is so so far this the the
- 00:48:52turn the the the clock the real estate
- 00:48:55cycle since the bottom into 2012 it's
- 00:48:57been pretty been pretty good so and I
- 00:48:59don't see any reason now now at the
- 00:49:01moment why that won't continue so I just
- 00:49:04assure it will continue and I just make
- 00:49:06my investment judgments based on that
- 00:49:09and you know
- 00:49:10I I'm I've spent the last I've spent the
- 00:49:14last six months organizing my own
- 00:49:15Affairs I've I've um I've uh sold one
- 00:49:20place in Melbourne that I should never
- 00:49:22really have thought really it was never
- 00:49:24really performing and it was the wrong
- 00:49:26thing I you know the Bo on that but I I
- 00:49:29uh I I turned that into cash and i' I've
- 00:49:33paid down one other one other place and
- 00:49:35uh I the new place I bought the new
- 00:49:37apartment I've bought that in the name
- 00:49:38of my son so that's attempted to set him
- 00:49:41up so that um when the downturn if it
- 00:49:44takes place or when it takes place he
- 00:49:46will he's only 22 at the moment but
- 00:49:48he'll have a an asset behind him that
- 00:49:51will give him a Kickstart for the next
- 00:49:52cycle I'm not going to do it for him
- 00:49:53that's his decisions to make but but
- 00:49:56I've I've giving him the start as my
- 00:49:58father did for me and so I've organized
- 00:50:00that I'm happy with that I uh since
- 00:50:03since he was born I put 50 us every week
- 00:50:07into H into a just a a cash account
- 00:50:12myself me you know I uh I uh when I
- 00:50:15started writing my book I moved to
- 00:50:16France but and that's where my son grew
- 00:50:19up um but where're fortunate fortunate
- 00:50:22same in Australia same in France I I
- 00:50:24never had to to start a college fund for
- 00:50:26I like you you have to do at the us so I
- 00:50:29was able to just when he turned 21 I put
- 00:50:32that cash over to him I don't think he'd
- 00:50:34ever seen such big figers in his entire
- 00:50:36life but you know that's what my father
- 00:50:38did for me so so that's just trying to
- 00:50:40set him up uh at the Peak at the moment
- 00:50:43you know he NOS he's at the stage of
- 00:50:44life where he's probably trying to find
- 00:50:47a a nice girlfriend and think about a
- 00:50:49wife and various things you know I've
- 00:50:51just tried to say to him you know you
- 00:50:53you
- 00:50:54you the decisions that you make with the
- 00:50:56house it's usually one of the biggest
- 00:50:57decisions in Mak in your life and if you
- 00:50:59make it at precisely the wrong time in
- 00:51:01the cycle it can it it can ruin you for
- 00:51:04the rest of your life it really can as
- 00:51:05people saw in 2008 and 2009 so it's
- 00:51:08something that you've got to try and at
- 00:51:10least get reasonably correct um and so
- 00:51:13that's what what I'm try to do for
- 00:51:14myself and with with my subscribers and
- 00:51:16various things like that at least get
- 00:51:18them to think a little bit more about
- 00:51:20not rushing into Investments based on a
- 00:51:22based on emotion and based on big smiles
- 00:51:25and what they like and what they like
- 00:51:26it's got to be a hard-headed business
- 00:51:28decision and if you can use the the
- 00:51:30cycle time to guide you with the timing
- 00:51:32well that's just absolutely fantastic so
- 00:51:34that's what I tried to do on a personal
- 00:51:36um capacity you can see that with my
- 00:51:39subscribers that been helpful to be able
- 00:51:40to make the same sort of decisions so
- 00:51:43that's a great question what are you
- 00:51:44currently doing right now are you are
- 00:51:46you going more defensive into cash or
- 00:51:49bonds or more defensive
- 00:51:52portfolio well defensive yes with the
- 00:51:54commercial stuff that the family has
- 00:51:56with just tried to reduce the loan to
- 00:51:58value uh which we which we've Reed you
- 00:52:01know we're down to about 50% now which
- 00:52:03we're happy with
- 00:52:05um the but I'm also it's not just what
- 00:52:09I'm necessarily doing at at at this time
- 00:52:11of the cycle I'm also at a stage you
- 00:52:13know I'm in my 60s now so I am trying to
- 00:52:16wind down a bit I don't want to be I
- 00:52:19want to write another book or two so I
- 00:52:22don't really want to be making the
- 00:52:23investment decisions that I made before
- 00:52:25so I am I have been winding that part
- 00:52:28down but that's just that's on personal
- 00:52:30level um I'd be doing it a little
- 00:52:32different if I was in my 30s and 30s I'd
- 00:52:35be gearing up to put myself in a
- 00:52:37situation where I present myself well to
- 00:52:39the banks in in four or five years time
- 00:52:42and I'd be uh comfortable uh trying to
- 00:52:45do that I'd also if I was back in my 30s
- 00:52:47and 40s I would I would take the time as
- 00:52:51I did when I was back that age to
- 00:52:53actually learn about these things and
- 00:52:55spend my researching and you know do a
- 00:52:58bit of um courses where you can and
- 00:53:00learn about how the stock market stock
- 00:53:02market Works learn about how the real
- 00:53:04estate Cycle Works learn about the the
- 00:53:06deficiencies in economics and the
- 00:53:08deficiencies in finance and that you
- 00:53:10should never really uh allow these
- 00:53:13decisions to be made by someone else
- 00:53:14you've got to take it on board yourself
- 00:53:16and various things and of course some of
- 00:53:19the some of the mistakes I made over the
- 00:53:21years you know but when you're young you
- 00:53:23can afford to make those mistakes
- 00:53:25because you can always you get a chance
- 00:53:27to start again whatever it has and you
- 00:53:29know and various things I I I tell my
- 00:53:31son you should always keep a reserve of
- 00:53:34cash 10 or 20K there an absolute minimum
- 00:53:37because he ever does make a real serious
- 00:53:38mistake you can actually take that cash
- 00:53:40out and start again so you never put
- 00:53:42everything on the line and so I'm at
- 00:53:44that stage myself in just this part of
- 00:53:46this particular recy cycle this real
- 00:53:48estate cycle I've seen three um you know
- 00:53:51it's just time for me to wind down a
- 00:53:52little bit I don't wish to retire the
- 00:53:55richest man in the
- 00:53:57cemetery so so I do want to spend it a
- 00:54:01little I've been very lucky over the
- 00:54:03time I I uh I look back very fondly on
- 00:54:06my on my trips through the United States
- 00:54:08having we in places where I'm WR to book
- 00:54:11you know it's it's a funny thing I my my
- 00:54:14favorite place in the United States
- 00:54:16which I never thought I'd ever would
- 00:54:17actually happen is Texas I
- 00:54:20um I uh traveling from you know from El
- 00:54:23Paso down to the Big Bend an areas like
- 00:54:25that with the bees
- 00:54:27and the scenery it's so you get a real
- 00:54:31Australia used to this Australia
- 00:54:32Australia travel Australia you get a
- 00:54:34real sense of freedom but fing the Texas
- 00:54:36as well you get an enormous amazing
- 00:54:39sense of Freedom so you know I look back
- 00:54:41fondly on my time da don't travel um
- 00:54:45last question for you and then I'll give
- 00:54:46you the last word is so I kind of
- 00:54:48mentioned this before but based on the
- 00:54:50cycle and with all these events coming
- 00:54:52to Los Angeles and all the
- 00:54:53infrastructure investment money coming
- 00:54:55in would you see La is a good place to
- 00:54:57make some Investments for Real
- 00:54:59Estate yes it's um the Olympic Games and
- 00:55:03those things that happened they are they
- 00:55:05do they do affect the cycle on a city
- 00:55:08specific uh location you know just in
- 00:55:11Australia ourselves up in uh up in North
- 00:55:14Australia in Brisbane we have the
- 00:55:16Olympic Games in 2032 so that is going
- 00:55:19to that the where where the where those
- 00:55:23big Investments take place at one at
- 00:55:27particular times in the cycle that does
- 00:55:29affect the cycle in that state or in
- 00:55:31that City so let me give you some
- 00:55:33examples so you might be able to relate
- 00:55:34this to La um the Olympic Games were
- 00:55:37held in London in
- 00:55:392012 and I was there at that time and
- 00:55:42the English you know what the English
- 00:55:43can be like they're always they're
- 00:55:45always a bit um joking about themselves
- 00:55:48and never they never they they always
- 00:55:50worried about their ability to to do
- 00:55:53things completely different to the
- 00:55:54Americans um they were all scared that
- 00:55:57the 2012 Olympics would be a big huge
- 00:56:00massive flop and then when it when it
- 00:56:02was shown that uh um the the bond took
- 00:56:06the queen out of the airplane and and
- 00:56:08various other things that were happening
- 00:56:09it was hugely exciting that kicked off
- 00:56:12The Real Estate cycle in the United
- 00:56:14Kingdom from the bottom and it was very
- 00:56:16bullish up until the Olympics of 2012 in
- 00:56:19London things were Weir and bearish
- 00:56:22there' been riots and there had been
- 00:56:23everything else and actually nobody
- 00:56:25could for nobody knew when the next
- 00:56:28kickoff would happen and then the
- 00:56:29Olympics took place and it kicked things
- 00:56:31off the the Olympics were in Sydney in
- 00:56:332000 and that was mid cycle and so
- 00:56:36Sydney from about 2001 in 2007 the
- 00:56:39second half of the real estate cycle
- 00:56:40never really did everything anything
- 00:56:41because the all the all the building and
- 00:56:44the construction was sort of brought
- 00:56:45forward for the Olympics and so when you
- 00:56:48get something that's happening at the
- 00:56:50end of the Olympics or or Beyond into
- 00:56:522028 2020
- 00:56:542030 that will give Los Angeles the
- 00:56:57ability to stagger their stru their
- 00:56:59infrastructure and probably alleviate
- 00:57:01the downturn that might take place so
- 00:57:03you just got to put that within the
- 00:57:05context of the larger real estate cycle
- 00:57:07I don't study cities individually per se
- 00:57:11I just my book's just all about the
- 00:57:13structure of the real estate cycle
- 00:57:14within the United States itself then you
- 00:57:17can see over history the United States
- 00:57:19has had that real estate cycle but not
- 00:57:21every city has partaken in the real
- 00:57:23estate cycle you have to also think that
- 00:57:27um Denver for example with its sprawl
- 00:57:30and LA with its sprawl um and other
- 00:57:33United State cities that have that SP
- 00:57:36and El Paso is another one where the
- 00:57:38where the city can expand and take and
- 00:57:40go right out and go can go really over
- 00:57:43the top towards the second half and they
- 00:57:45do a lot of uh expansion of of the city
- 00:57:48into the spool into the countryside that
- 00:57:50can take a while to recover but cities
- 00:57:52like San Francisco and New York that are
- 00:57:55that are hemmed in as they are by by by
- 00:57:58the bay and by the Sea um they tend to
- 00:58:02recover much quicker because the the the
- 00:58:05city can't expand as it does so you you
- 00:58:08have to be able to take the the the
- 00:58:10theoretical basis of the of the 18.6
- 00:58:12your real estate Sol and then you've got
- 00:58:14to Overlay it and apply your own local
- 00:58:16real estate knowledge as to where you
- 00:58:18are to then think about what what what
- 00:58:20happen and that's important to do I
- 00:58:21can't answer that particularly for every
- 00:58:23specific question but but um and and
- 00:58:26perhaps one final example usually the
- 00:58:28biggest downturn takes place where the
- 00:58:29world's tallest is being built that'sa
- 00:58:33so so we I'd be interested to see what
- 00:58:35happens in Oklahoma probably they would
- 00:58:37have a fairly significant down to worse
- 00:58:39than the rest of the United States but
- 00:58:40that's just based on historical things
- 00:58:42we got a
- 00:58:43second Phil I want to say thank you for
- 00:58:46your time I want to be respectful of it
- 00:58:48we talked about doing an hour so thank
- 00:58:49you so much I want to invite everybody
- 00:58:52just do yourself a favor and get the
- 00:58:53book it's a phenomenal phenomenal read
- 00:58:56and Phil I just want to give you the
- 00:58:57last word any else you want to add or
- 00:58:58share that I haven't asked you uh no it
- 00:59:01was um it was all pretty good uh I hope
- 00:59:04to get to the United States uh soon and
- 00:59:06and um and visit again it's been
- 00:59:10fantastic having researched the history
- 00:59:12of it's it's it's a marvelous history
- 00:59:14you know what what Americans have done
- 00:59:17with the country they can do spirit it's
- 00:59:19been it's fantastic for me to see and
- 00:59:21Australians very similar like they in
- 00:59:23the same sort of way so it's been great
- 00:59:24to be here thanks to be one sure great I
- 00:59:28mean hope we can have you back we didn't
- 00:59:29really talk about you know the power of
- 00:59:31speculation and really how the Virginia
- 00:59:33Company back in the early 1600s were
- 00:59:36created the United States so it's just
- 00:59:38so many things to discuss with you I
- 00:59:39just am grateful for the work you put in
- 00:59:41and we'll do this again okay right thank
- 00:59:45youon check out the book it's fantastic
- 00:59:47here's his website property sharemarket
- 00:59:49economics.com as well if you want to
- 00:59:50find out more about what they're doing
- 00:59:52to educate people out there again this
- 00:59:54is the commercial real estate report if
- 00:59:56how are you to build a generational
- 00:59:57wealth with real estate
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