Hidden Patterns of the Real Estate Cycle |@Phil_J_Anderson & Chris Berg @CommercialRealEstateReport

01:00:10
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mi2ysOyy-Hs

Summary

TLDRThis video covers a conversation between Chris B, the host of the Commercial Real Estate Report, and Phil Anderson, the author of "The Secret Life of Real Estate and Banking." They discuss the predictability of the 18.6-year real estate cycle and its significance in economic forecasting and building generational wealth. Phil explains how understanding the cycle can guide investment decisions, offering a framework to navigate economic expansions and contractions. The conversation touches upon the history of the cycle, how the land market plays a critical role in economic trends, and the potential impacts of global events like wars. Phil advises on using this cycle as a tool to mitigate stress and improve investment outcomes. He emphasizes the importance of staying informed, managing investments wisely, and preparing for cyclical downturns. The discussion highlights how past cycle behaviors can predict future economic conditions and the need for investors to align their strategies with these cycles to optimize financial growth.

Takeaways

  • 📘 The 18.6-year real estate cycle is a pivotal tool for forecasting economic trends.
  • 📉 Understanding the cycle helps reduce investment stress and enhances decision-making.
  • 🏘️ Land speculation and value significantly influence economic trends within this cycle.
  • 📊 Historical data supports the cycle's predictability in forecasting market peaks and recessions.
  • 🕰️ Timing is critical in leveraging the cycle for investment opportunities.
  • 🏛️ Government policies and expenditures can affect but don't change the cycle's patterns.
  • ⏳ The 'Winter's Curse' marks a critical phase of market corrections within the cycle.
  • 🔍 Investors should focus on efficient debt management and strategic planning during downturns.
  • 🌍 Events like wars might disrupt but don't necessarily stop the cycle.
  • 💡 Phil Anderson emphasizes the need for investors to align strategies with the cycle for sustained growth.

Timeline

  • 00:00:00 - 00:05:00

    The introduction sets the stage for a discussion on the predictable nature of real estate cycles and wealth-building opportunities. The host, Chris, begins a conversation with Phil Anderson, the author of 'The Secret Life of Real Estate and Banking,' emphasizing the book's insights on ignoring media hype and identifying investment opportunities. The focus is on understanding the 18.6-year real estate cycle.

  • 00:05:00 - 00:10:00

    Phil Anderson shares the origins of his interest in economic cycles, sparked by his family's cyclical lingerie business and his education during an economic recession in the early 80s. This led him to analyze real estate cycles, inspired by Fred Harrison's predictions of real estate booms and busts, which accurately forecasted market downturns, leading to a significant successful investment by his family.

  • 00:10:00 - 00:15:00

    Anderson elaborates on his research into real estate cycles, utilizing historical data to identify an 18.6-year pattern of land value cycles in the U.S. Starting his business, he aimed to spread awareness of these cycles, despite initial skepticism from economists. He emphasizes the importance of understanding land values and economic rent, as reflected in his book.

  • 00:15:00 - 00:20:00

    Chris underscores the value of Anderson's book in calming market anxieties and reinforcing the link between land values and economic forecasts. Anderson mentions that stock markets precede real estate market shifts, suggesting that real estate cycles, particularly in the U.S., provide a reliable blueprint for economic trends.

  • 00:20:00 - 00:25:00

    Discussing the intricacies of the 18.6-year cycle, Anderson attributes it to earnings capitalization and banking practices around land values. He highlights the regularity of these cycles over centuries, strengthening the argument for recognizing and leveraging them for investment strategies, despite unpredictable shorter-term events.

  • 00:25:00 - 00:30:00

    Anderson delves into historical data supporting the real estate cycle, citing detailed studies of land values in Chicago and St. Louis. By mapping these cycles, he posits that a downturn typically follows a speculative boom, evidenced by real estate and government economic activities, including lavish constructions and policy changes, which are currently observable.

  • 00:30:00 - 00:35:00

    The discussion navigates timing investments—Anderson advises caution against over-leveraging at cycle peaks but doesn't necessarily advocate selling off properties. He suggests strategic financial positioning to capitalize on downturn opportunities, sharing personal strategies and historical examples from the cycle's past rounds.

  • 00:35:00 - 00:40:00

    Continuing, Anderson articulates the impact of market corrections on investment strategies, noting that land and property values will eventually decline, marking the end of the cycle. He stresses the importance of prudent investment during this phase to safeguard assets and position for future growth, as evidenced in historical cycles.

  • 00:40:00 - 00:45:00

    Expounding on past cycles disrupted by wars, Anderson assesses current global tensions against historical precedents, noting that such events typically don't cause downturns. He observes that the economic fundamentals usually remain stable, with conflict potentially accelerating some economic activities instead.

  • 00:45:00 - 00:50:00

    Phil explores the societal implications of cyclical downturns enhanced by technological advancements such as AI. He warns of the efficiency-driven pressures that could exacerbate economic hardships, illustrating the critical need for strategic planning and cash reserves to mitigate undesirable impacts during downturns.

  • 00:50:00 - 01:00:10

    Concluding, Anderson reflects on personal investment strategies in preparation for the next downturn. He stresses positioning oneself to take advantage of a post-peak market, encouraging long-term planning and the avoidance of rushed, emotion-driven decisions. The discussion wraps up with reflections on economic insights and future planning in anticipation of real estate cycles.

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Mind Map

Video Q&A

  • What is the 18.6-year real estate cycle?

    It is a predictable economic cycle identified in real estate trends, occurring approximately every 18.6 years.

  • Who is Phil Anderson?

    Phil Anderson is the author of 'The Secret Life of Real Estate and Banking' and a guest on the show.

  • How does the 18.6-year cycle help investors?

    By understanding the cycle, investors can make informed decisions, potentially leading to improved investment outcomes and reduced stress.

  • Why is land a key indicator in economic cycles?

    Land value and speculative activities significantly influence economic trends and can predict upcoming recessions.

  • What historical evidence supports the 18.6-year cycle?

    Research and historical data since 1800 show consistent land speculation peaks every 18.6 years.

  • How can current economic activities affect this cycle?

    Global events like wars or economic policies can disrupt but generally do not prevent the cycle.

  • What is the ‘Winter’s Curse’ in the context of real estate cycles?

    It refers to a phase in the second half of the real estate cycle where intense market correction often leads to downturns.

  • How important is timing when investing in real estate according to Phil Anderson?

    Timing is crucial; understanding and leveraging the cycle helps in making better investment decisions.

  • What role does government policy play in the real estate cycle?

    Government expenditure and policy can amplify trends within the cycle but do not change its overall pattern.

  • How should investors prepare for downturns in the real estate cycle?

    Investors should manage debt effectively, prepare for market corrections, and use these times for strategic acquisitions.

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  • 00:00:00
    is there a predictable real estate cycle
  • 00:00:02
    that can help you build wealth we're
  • 00:00:04
    talking about that more tonight here on
  • 00:00:05
    the commercial real estate report I'm
  • 00:00:07
    your host chrisb the mission of this
  • 00:00:09
    show is to empower you to build
  • 00:00:11
    generational wealth with real estate and
  • 00:00:13
    today we're going to dive into that with
  • 00:00:15
    a very special guest um he is the author
  • 00:00:17
    of this book it's called The Secret Life
  • 00:00:19
    of real estate and banking um couple
  • 00:00:21
    things I want to share with you about
  • 00:00:22
    this book I picked it up about a year
  • 00:00:24
    ago and Phil one of the things I love
  • 00:00:26
    about your book is that after you read
  • 00:00:28
    it like you can't see what you've been
  • 00:00:31
    shown in this book so helps you become a
  • 00:00:33
    better investor helps you sort of ignore
  • 00:00:35
    some of the media headlines and one
  • 00:00:37
    other anecdote about the book it was
  • 00:00:38
    copyright in 2008 Phil says in the book
  • 00:00:42
    hey you're ready there's going to be a
  • 00:00:43
    lot of opportunity for Real Estate
  • 00:00:44
    investments in 2010 so somewhat pressure
  • 00:00:47
    there um so there's just a lot of
  • 00:00:50
    exciting things what I want to do
  • 00:00:51
    tonight is I want to dive into the
  • 00:00:52
    Genesis of this book um the how and why
  • 00:00:55
    of an 18.6 year predictable real estate
  • 00:00:58
    cycle uh where we're at today maybe even
  • 00:01:00
    more importantly where are we headed and
  • 00:01:03
    how bad are things going to get when
  • 00:01:05
    things go in another or bad Direction so
  • 00:01:08
    with us tonight the author of this book
  • 00:01:09
    he's also the managing director of
  • 00:01:11
    property share market economics great
  • 00:01:13
    economic forecasting newsletter Phil
  • 00:01:16
    Anderson Phil it is great to have you
  • 00:01:18
    with us and thank you for all the work
  • 00:01:19
    you put into this book yeah hi Chris
  • 00:01:22
    that's uh it's good to be here
  • 00:01:25
    so let's get into um one the Genesis of
  • 00:01:29
    the book and then just the how and why
  • 00:01:31
    of this predictable based on your
  • 00:01:33
    research uh real estate
  • 00:01:36
    cycle well yes uh you know it's funny we
  • 00:01:42
    used to have a family business it was uh
  • 00:01:45
    it was um it was started by my father
  • 00:01:49
    and this goes back into the the the late
  • 00:01:52
    well the mid 1970s really and then
  • 00:01:54
    forwarding through to the 1980s and we
  • 00:01:57
    were in the the uh ladies lingeray
  • 00:02:01
    fashion business and uh it's cyclical
  • 00:02:05
    clearly fashion goes in and out and one
  • 00:02:08
    of the things was about our business um
  • 00:02:11
    for some reason Ladies by no lipstick
  • 00:02:14
    and lingerie in the downturn often they
  • 00:02:17
    seem to know when one's coming and our
  • 00:02:19
    business being in that side of things
  • 00:02:21
    lingerie and and embroidery and things
  • 00:02:24
    we had a more profitable business
  • 00:02:27
    sometimes or at least in a downturn more
  • 00:02:29
    profitable than some other businesses
  • 00:02:31
    because of that particular fact so it
  • 00:02:32
    was always intrigued me about the whole
  • 00:02:35
    up and down of the economy and and what
  • 00:02:38
    people do in and out of
  • 00:02:40
    recessions and then um uh you know I
  • 00:02:43
    went through I went through college in
  • 00:02:46
    University and I I did my economics
  • 00:02:48
    degree and this is we're talking late
  • 00:02:50
    70s early 80s and you know for people
  • 00:02:53
    who may recall that that the the early
  • 00:02:56
    80s were serious um recession in the
  • 00:02:58
    United States and uh as it h you know my
  • 00:03:02
    economics professors they they they just
  • 00:03:05
    couldn't answer the questions that I had
  • 00:03:07
    you know back then uh it was all about
  • 00:03:10
    the Philips curve which said that you
  • 00:03:12
    you can't have high unemployment and
  • 00:03:13
    high un inflation at the same time which
  • 00:03:15
    of course you know late 70s inflation at
  • 00:03:18
    15% unemployment at 12% it just it just
  • 00:03:21
    didn't make sense to me but then um I
  • 00:03:25
    decided i' I'd travel around the world
  • 00:03:26
    for for a new T and see if I could find
  • 00:03:29
    out the and various things and uh then
  • 00:03:33
    the downturn of the well first up the
  • 00:03:35
    the big bur 19 8788 89 then downtown of
  • 00:03:40
    1991 uh and I happened to come across a
  • 00:03:42
    book it was I've actually I've actually
  • 00:03:45
    got it here it was a was a book by a
  • 00:03:47
    book by Fred Harrison called the power
  • 00:03:48
    in the land and wrote that book
  • 00:03:53
    1983 forecasting a big huge boom in the
  • 00:03:57
    UK for 1989 and then I
  • 00:04:00
    collapse of the economy between at the
  • 00:04:03
    peak of 1989 to the bottom of 1991 now
  • 00:04:06
    he did that seven years in advance and
  • 00:04:08
    uh so was that was uh really important
  • 00:04:12
    from my point of view from our family's
  • 00:04:13
    point of view because with our ler
  • 00:04:16
    business we had a fairly profitable
  • 00:04:18
    business in that particular quite
  • 00:04:19
    serious
  • 00:04:20
    downturn the uh the one of the banks
  • 00:04:23
    that was just that was having a hard
  • 00:04:25
    time in you we're talking in Melbourne
  • 00:04:27
    Australia uh they they came to us
  • 00:04:29
    because they knew my they knew a family
  • 00:04:31
    business and you know all the family
  • 00:04:33
    were working in the business and they uh
  • 00:04:36
    they were trying to get all their loans
  • 00:04:38
    off their books and trying to make their
  • 00:04:40
    their non-performing loans performing
  • 00:04:43
    and so we get we had a chance to supply
  • 00:04:47
    21 commercial buildings right this is
  • 00:04:49
    It's a fairly big fairly big thing and
  • 00:04:52
    and we're right in the middle of a
  • 00:04:53
    downtown and we did not we it was a very
  • 00:04:56
    difficult decision because the the the
  • 00:04:58
    commercial buildings didn't have any
  • 00:05:00
    tenants which means which meant we had
  • 00:05:01
    to pay the upkeep of the of the of the
  • 00:05:04
    portfolio from profits of the business
  • 00:05:06
    right and then you know I had Fred
  • 00:05:08
    Harrison's Book in my hand and I I just
  • 00:05:10
    simply went to the family we had a
  • 00:05:11
    family meeting I said and I said Mom Dad
  • 00:05:14
    kids um if if this guy Fred Harrison R
  • 00:05:17
    never met I didn't know who who it was
  • 00:05:20
    at the time if this guy's right we're at
  • 00:05:22
    the bottom of an 18.6 year real estate
  • 00:05:24
    cycle no and know we went ahead we made
  • 00:05:28
    the purchase you can imagine how that's
  • 00:05:30
    been all because of knowledge of a 18.6
  • 00:05:33
    real estate cycle uh know one thing led
  • 00:05:35
    to another the the the we ended up uh
  • 00:05:38
    getting some tenants for all the all the
  • 00:05:41
    properties we we sold off a little bit
  • 00:05:43
    of them to make it uh less loans we had
  • 00:05:46
    outstanding on the existing buildings
  • 00:05:48
    that we that we jeed and you know from
  • 00:05:50
    that time you know how you know have
  • 00:05:51
    properties G up since then right and so
  • 00:05:54
    then I sort of you know one thing L to
  • 00:05:56
    another and various things which I won't
  • 00:05:58
    go into but I had the chance with the
  • 00:06:01
    information I saw in Fred to start my
  • 00:06:03
    own business so I decided to research us
  • 00:06:07
    real estate because this guy Fred Arison
  • 00:06:09
    had done the ubby and and you wouldn't
  • 00:06:12
    believe it but
  • 00:06:14
    but the the first the first research I
  • 00:06:18
    did and of course this is you know we're
  • 00:06:20
    talking pre- interet right this is no
  • 00:06:23
    you can't recall just how difficult it
  • 00:06:25
    was to research and I'm sitting in a
  • 00:06:26
    library in in Mourne Australia right
  • 00:06:29
    insignificant Backwater right it's got
  • 00:06:31
    nothing to do with the United States
  • 00:06:32
    trying to research us information so I
  • 00:06:34
    had to borrow a book from the Library of
  • 00:06:36
    Congress get it sent to Australia then
  • 00:06:38
    return it yeah you just you know you
  • 00:06:40
    can't imagine that
  • 00:06:41
    anymore turns out the first thing I saw
  • 00:06:44
    I I I I did I did um the land value
  • 00:06:49
    research um land figures in the United
  • 00:06:51
    States and you just wouldn't believe it
  • 00:06:54
    but but land speculation in the United
  • 00:06:56
    States from 1800 progressed in 18.6 year
  • 00:07:00
    real estate the 18.6 cycle so land land
  • 00:07:04
    speculation piqued every 18 years it was
  • 00:07:06
    just unbelievable so then I thought well
  • 00:07:08
    I had I've got nuts and bols here of a
  • 00:07:10
    of a um of a uh business that I could
  • 00:07:14
    run on my own independent from what the
  • 00:07:16
    family was doing to provide information
  • 00:07:18
    especially to us people because you know
  • 00:07:20
    the US are Comm biggest in the worlds
  • 00:07:22
    where all the money is right so I
  • 00:07:23
    thought well if that's where the money
  • 00:07:24
    is let's let's go that way it's just
  • 00:07:26
    been unbelievable since and as as the
  • 00:07:28
    cycle developed from
  • 00:07:30
    1991 uh as we went into the top in
  • 00:07:33
    2007 I was ready for that top I knew it
  • 00:07:36
    I knew it was coming so you know it's
  • 00:07:38
    been a progression from there and then
  • 00:07:41
    the problem is when when leading from
  • 00:07:43
    that so I sort of had a bu a business I
  • 00:07:45
    could talk some information but what
  • 00:07:47
    what staggered me was I was finding that
  • 00:07:50
    nobody was tending to believe it when I
  • 00:07:53
    when I thought about things because the
  • 00:07:56
    problem is um you know if I can take a
  • 00:07:59
    minute just one minute more to finish
  • 00:08:01
    off you like the first question if if uh
  • 00:08:05
    if you take a pen here right and and and
  • 00:08:08
    if I was to drop this pen as you know we
  • 00:08:11
    the law of gravity says it's going to
  • 00:08:13
    it's going to fall this way and no no
  • 00:08:16
    scientist worth anything would say well
  • 00:08:18
    no that's not actually right it's
  • 00:08:19
    actually you drop it it'll go up it's
  • 00:08:21
    yes when I come on yeah you know when I
  • 00:08:23
    talk talk in front of the public and you
  • 00:08:25
    know talking to you now and and all the
  • 00:08:27
    people listening and I start talking
  • 00:08:29
    about
  • 00:08:30
    uh real estate cycle I just I just sound
  • 00:08:34
    like another forecaster another
  • 00:08:36
    prognosticator uh talking about the the
  • 00:08:39
    cycle and you know I've got my I've got
  • 00:08:41
    my forecast for you and you know
  • 00:08:42
    forecaster a diamond dozen and various
  • 00:08:44
    things like that right and that's so so
  • 00:08:49
    I would urge listeners to try and try
  • 00:08:51
    and weigh that up because there is there
  • 00:08:54
    is a fundamental law in economics that
  • 00:08:57
    is exactly the same for economics as
  • 00:08:59
    gravity is for Science and it's it's
  • 00:09:03
    it's it's David Ricardo back in 1810
  • 00:09:05
    it's his law of economic rent uh and
  • 00:09:07
    basically he's saying that the rent
  • 00:09:09
    takes all the gains and so land value
  • 00:09:10
    will always keep going up mostly subject
  • 00:09:12
    to to declines here and there because of
  • 00:09:14
    all the society's uh uh developments and
  • 00:09:19
    and inventions and everything else that
  • 00:09:20
    in the finish it doesn't lift wages it
  • 00:09:23
    lifts land price and so when I went out
  • 00:09:27
    and spoke to people about this I was
  • 00:09:28
    getting a negative reaction from
  • 00:09:30
    economists who would sit there like this
  • 00:09:32
    in their seats and
  • 00:09:33
    I so I write a book so so then I thought
  • 00:09:36
    right I'd have to do a book and I I'd uh
  • 00:09:39
    I put the book together it took me quite
  • 00:09:41
    a number of years to end up getting it
  • 00:09:42
    together it took me another few years to
  • 00:09:44
    find a publisher uh and then you know
  • 00:09:46
    now you have it so it was good I'm very
  • 00:09:49
    glad I wrote it it it does it does lift
  • 00:09:51
    credibility and profile and and I've had
  • 00:09:54
    some fantastic feedback on it as you've
  • 00:09:56
    noticed yourself once you once you once
  • 00:09:59
    you get it once you see the cycle but
  • 00:10:02
    not only not only just see the cycle but
  • 00:10:04
    actually understand that it does that we
  • 00:10:06
    do actually in the first place have to
  • 00:10:07
    get a cycle and then then it is going to
  • 00:10:10
    inevitably repeat once you see that you
  • 00:10:12
    can't unsee it and and I've feedback
  • 00:10:15
    I've had from the book like that people
  • 00:10:17
    who write in than my members and
  • 00:10:19
    subscribers uh they tell me the stories
  • 00:10:21
    about when it first clicked for and when
  • 00:10:23
    they first realized and then some people
  • 00:10:25
    come up and tell me how uh how they've
  • 00:10:27
    been able to then uh make their
  • 00:10:30
    Investments and the biggest feedback I
  • 00:10:32
    get is it it just it just calms people's
  • 00:10:36
    level of stress in the economy and
  • 00:10:39
    understanding the economy because they
  • 00:10:40
    you really can you really can start to
  • 00:10:43
    forecast the movement even more
  • 00:10:45
    particularly especially in the United
  • 00:10:47
    States because that's where that's where
  • 00:10:49
    it all happens and that's where the
  • 00:10:50
    cycle that's where the cycle begins and
  • 00:10:53
    and ends and uh yeah so it's been it's
  • 00:10:56
    been a wild ride so I want to touch on
  • 00:10:59
    the how and why of the 18.6 years in a
  • 00:11:01
    moment but but you're alluding to
  • 00:11:02
    something that I really appreciate
  • 00:11:04
    because even though the last few days
  • 00:11:05
    and if you want to speak to this please
  • 00:11:06
    do so but you know everyone's hair is on
  • 00:11:08
    fire and because of reading your book
  • 00:11:10
    being a newsletter member I've been
  • 00:11:12
    pretty calm like yeah it's kind of a
  • 00:11:14
    little bit probably a little correction
  • 00:11:15
    and I say that because one of the things
  • 00:11:17
    you repeat in the book is hey look if
  • 00:11:19
    you ever listen to a forecaster that
  • 00:11:21
    doesn't tie it to land don't listen to
  • 00:11:23
    anything like ignore them because they
  • 00:11:25
    don't get it so speak to you touch on a
  • 00:11:28
    bit but why is land piece so important
  • 00:11:31
    um you've also said in the book that hey
  • 00:11:32
    land is a great predictor of an upcoming
  • 00:11:34
    recession you said land typically tops
  • 00:11:36
    out 12 to 24 months before an incoming
  • 00:11:39
    recession so how do you determine if
  • 00:11:41
    lands at its top price or not yes well
  • 00:11:44
    that's the thing that the stock market
  • 00:11:45
    is big but but the actual the actual
  • 00:11:49
    rent of land the actual real estate
  • 00:11:50
    Market's way bigger and that has the
  • 00:11:54
    that has the major effect on the various
  • 00:11:57
    things and with the with the stock
  • 00:11:59
    market the stock market is where
  • 00:12:01
    everything is priced in quickly and
  • 00:12:04
    first uh but it will get ahead of itself
  • 00:12:07
    sometimes uh and then as it's done over
  • 00:12:11
    the last couple of months uh when
  • 00:12:14
    something comes up to slightly rethink
  • 00:12:17
    the the reason why it got ahead of
  • 00:12:18
    itself the stock market has to make a
  • 00:12:20
    fairly quick adjustment which it's doing
  • 00:12:22
    the last couple of days um and everybody
  • 00:12:26
    everybody gets nervous and worried
  • 00:12:28
    because can sometimes be a fairly large
  • 00:12:31
    correction in a in a number of days but
  • 00:12:33
    that's what the stock market does um and
  • 00:12:35
    it's only pricing in it's only pricing
  • 00:12:37
    in the next couple of months and that's
  • 00:12:39
    not the bigger picture and uh one of the
  • 00:12:43
    things that can help you which is what I
  • 00:12:45
    do for my subscribers I I try to teach
  • 00:12:48
    them how to read a chart and so if I can
  • 00:12:50
    refer to back back what happened in in
  • 00:12:55
    2023 back in
  • 00:12:57
    March uh despite the fact that we had a
  • 00:13:00
    silicon Belly Bank um uh you know um
  • 00:13:05
    look like it microw had a business and
  • 00:13:08
    you know there were fears that uh that
  • 00:13:09
    it might be contagious and it might
  • 00:13:11
    bring back memories of what happened
  • 00:13:14
    2007 uh some of the other rest of the
  • 00:13:16
    market particularly housing stocks and
  • 00:13:18
    if you if you're able to look at charts
  • 00:13:21
    uh for people listening to this and
  • 00:13:23
    watching um back in March 20
  • 00:13:27
    2023 and then for the next month or to
  • 00:13:29
    April May housing stocks started
  • 00:13:31
    breaking up into all-time new
  • 00:13:33
    highs um which was the market telling
  • 00:13:35
    you that despite what was going on with
  • 00:13:37
    Sil in belly Bank uh earnings of housing
  • 00:13:40
    stocks were actually going to increase
  • 00:13:41
    over the next couple of months so if you
  • 00:13:43
    could actually see that within the
  • 00:13:44
    construct of a real estate cycle that
  • 00:13:47
    development in the stock market was
  • 00:13:48
    telling you that we were about to enter
  • 00:13:51
    the final stages of the real estate
  • 00:13:52
    cycle so sort of what I try to do is get
  • 00:13:55
    people to see to understand the real
  • 00:13:57
    estate cycle first and then and then
  • 00:13:59
    have a go looking what happens in the
  • 00:14:02
    stock markets
  • 00:14:04
    because you can use some of the you can
  • 00:14:07
    use the stocks in the stock market to
  • 00:14:09
    help you determine where you are in the
  • 00:14:11
    real estate cycle as long as you've
  • 00:14:12
    understood the real estate cycle first
  • 00:14:14
    and how the real estate cycle moves and
  • 00:14:17
    so um one of the things that was uh
  • 00:14:20
    fantastic about the United States when
  • 00:14:22
    we started doing my research is that uh
  • 00:14:25
    the the US has has has information on
  • 00:14:28
    just about any anything and everything
  • 00:14:31
    uh and also there's been quite a number
  • 00:14:33
    of people that have done research and
  • 00:14:35
    various things on uh all sorts of varied
  • 00:14:39
    and wonderful and exotic uh interesting
  • 00:14:41
    um areas of of information right so um
  • 00:14:45
    there were two guys back in the
  • 00:14:47
    1930s H ho out of Chicago and Roy wliy
  • 00:14:53
    in St Louis and H H Hoy wrote a
  • 00:14:57
    university thesis which was which was
  • 00:14:59
    thesis was published in 1933 as a book
  • 00:15:02
    100 Years of land values in Chicago I
  • 00:15:04
    urge people to read all Real Estate
  • 00:15:06
    Investors should have that on the on
  • 00:15:08
    their in their library because it
  • 00:15:10
    explains how Chicago nowhere else but
  • 00:15:13
    just
  • 00:15:14
    Chicago uh went through Cycles from
  • 00:15:18
    about 1820 something when it was founded
  • 00:15:20
    till about
  • 00:15:22
    1933 and the reason why hom Hoy was able
  • 00:15:25
    to research so much about Chicago real
  • 00:15:28
    estate because there was a guy this is
  • 00:15:30
    unbelievable really there was a guy
  • 00:15:31
    called George Al George Alin that
  • 00:15:34
    decided in his lifetime he would keep a
  • 00:15:36
    record of every single real estate
  • 00:15:38
    transaction that took place in Chicago
  • 00:15:40
    and you published them in What's called
  • 00:15:41
    the B books when can you imagine that
  • 00:15:43
    just spending your entire life recording
  • 00:15:45
    real estate deeds and and what the sale
  • 00:15:48
    price and what happened but fortunately
  • 00:15:49
    it did because it enabled hom to produce
  • 00:15:51
    a great thesis on um on real estate and
  • 00:15:54
    sickly cool stuff on it and then there
  • 00:15:56
    was uh Roy wnli in St Louis that he was
  • 00:16:00
    probably the world's first economic
  • 00:16:02
    forecaster he showed the the real estate
  • 00:16:04
    cycle in St Louis and you put them to
  • 00:16:07
    together especially what H did that
  • 00:16:09
    enabled me then to construct sort of
  • 00:16:11
    like a a clock for Real Estate that
  • 00:16:14
    showed you from the bottom what happens
  • 00:16:17
    on a on a on a basis of of uh sort of
  • 00:16:21
    like a yearly basis from one year to the
  • 00:16:24
    next within that 18.6 year cycle and
  • 00:16:27
    once you once you can see that it's just
  • 00:16:29
    it's unbelievable how it moves and I
  • 00:16:30
    know you yourself have seen it you you
  • 00:16:32
    get to see so when we're in the second
  • 00:16:34
    half of a real estate sof you get tour
  • 00:16:36
    building start to open up you get
  • 00:16:38
    leverage government expenditure and then
  • 00:16:39
    you get a frenetic real estate market
  • 00:16:41
    and that's exactly what's been happening
  • 00:16:43
    I mean it's just absolutely a down so
  • 00:16:45
    let's jump into that if you can share so
  • 00:16:47
    this I want to let our audience know
  • 00:16:48
    this is from a webinar that you did for
  • 00:16:50
    people that are members of the property
  • 00:16:52
    share market economics
  • 00:16:54
    newsletter keio Patel up in the corter
  • 00:16:56
    bit he does a nice job of just
  • 00:16:58
    graphically laying now you know where
  • 00:17:00
    we're at which is the Green Dot where he
  • 00:17:01
    believes we're at today but before we
  • 00:17:04
    get to that if you can just talk about
  • 00:17:05
    why 18.6 years like what's happening
  • 00:17:08
    within the banking system or however you
  • 00:17:10
    want to explain the thesis but why 18.6
  • 00:17:13
    years well it's all based on earnings
  • 00:17:18
    now if I can if I can talk about a um a
  • 00:17:22
    stop for a minute um nobody tends to
  • 00:17:25
    have any trouble with say I don't know
  • 00:17:27
    you pick a pick a famous stock like
  • 00:17:31
    um I don't know a bank one of the one of
  • 00:17:33
    the big Banks um they
  • 00:17:36
    earn they earn profits and uh the stock
  • 00:17:40
    market will break that down as a as
  • 00:17:42
    earnings per
  • 00:17:43
    share um and people generally tend to
  • 00:17:47
    understand that the price of that share
  • 00:17:48
    is going to be a multiple of the
  • 00:17:50
    earnings and so generally Banks big
  • 00:17:53
    Banks priced at about 12 times earnings
  • 00:17:56
    per share so in other words if if you
  • 00:17:58
    buy a a share of um of Goldman sex or
  • 00:18:02
    something let's say it's 100 bucks or
  • 00:18:03
    whatever it is and it pays a dividend to
  • 00:18:06
    you every every year and if the earnings
  • 00:18:08
    if it's based on on 20 times earnings
  • 00:18:10
    then it's going to be 20 years to get
  • 00:18:12
    your money back well you can you you can
  • 00:18:15
    actually apply the same thing to to real
  • 00:18:18
    estate or to land and land is the price
  • 00:18:21
    of a of a of a an appraised plot is
  • 00:18:24
    usually about 20 times its earnings and
  • 00:18:26
    so it's the it's the cap capitalization
  • 00:18:29
    of those earnings into a price that
  • 00:18:30
    generally will give rise to a real
  • 00:18:33
    estate cycle because uh we are allowing
  • 00:18:36
    private individuals to take that rent so
  • 00:18:38
    they buy and sell um you then get the
  • 00:18:42
    the situation where
  • 00:18:45
    um uh Banks then enter the situation
  • 00:18:48
    with uh their credit that they create
  • 00:18:51
    their credit based on based on on the
  • 00:18:54
    the land value and so that then will you
  • 00:18:58
    as I've showed in my book that it's the
  • 00:19:01
    how much credit gets created against the
  • 00:19:04
    land price that will determine the
  • 00:19:06
    volatility of the the upside and the
  • 00:19:09
    downside and then once you get to see it
  • 00:19:12
    the only question you've got to ask
  • 00:19:14
    yourself after that is why the cycle is
  • 00:19:16
    so regular it uh it's it's actually it's
  • 00:19:19
    never really been shorter than 17 years
  • 00:19:21
    and never longer than 21 as home W
  • 00:19:23
    stated for Chicago but it really has
  • 00:19:25
    since 1955 it's been almost been
  • 00:19:27
    pinpoint perfect at around at 18 and a
  • 00:19:30
    half years and so why we get 18 and a
  • 00:19:34
    half well you know that's a that's a
  • 00:19:37
    another thing it I think it's got
  • 00:19:38
    something to do with the capitalization
  • 00:19:40
    rate in other words the interest rate
  • 00:19:41
    the long run interest rate is generally
  • 00:19:43
    about
  • 00:19:44
    5% and so at an interest rate of 5% if
  • 00:19:48
    you invest at 5% it takes 14 years to
  • 00:19:50
    get your money back and so that has
  • 00:19:52
    generally I think led to 14 years of
  • 00:19:54
    rising prices within the the actual real
  • 00:19:56
    estate cycle itself and if you go back
  • 00:19:59
    certainly in my book I've done this
  • 00:20:01
    since 1800 and once Akil my my
  • 00:20:04
    co-director business partner he put that
  • 00:20:06
    in probably what looks like a better
  • 00:20:07
    graph which is the one you've got in
  • 00:20:08
    front of
  • 00:20:09
    you it really has um since when when the
  • 00:20:14
    land price Bottoms in the United States
  • 00:20:17
    and I know every State's different but
  • 00:20:19
    has a homogeneous uh uh type of taking
  • 00:20:23
    all of of the land in the US all at once
  • 00:20:27
    uh generally the cycle has the cycle has
  • 00:20:31
    um taken about seven years from the
  • 00:20:35
    bottom and so when when Real Estate
  • 00:20:37
    bottom in 2012 in the United States all
  • 00:20:41
    we all we were able to do was quite
  • 00:20:43
    simple based on past Cycles uh you add
  • 00:20:45
    seven years to the bottom that'll take
  • 00:20:47
    you up to the top of the the first half
  • 00:20:49
    of the cycle so this this graph we have
  • 00:20:51
    in front of you AR did that he did that
  • 00:20:53
    in 2014 it's not something we just
  • 00:20:55
    created today which suggested that we
  • 00:20:58
    would get a uh a a real estate the first
  • 00:21:01
    half of the real estate cycle would Peak
  • 00:21:03
    around about the top the end of 2019 we
  • 00:21:06
    would then get a Slowdown something
  • 00:21:08
    something would cause that slowdown to
  • 00:21:09
    happen that would be into 2021 after
  • 00:21:12
    which we'd get another seven six and a
  • 00:21:14
    half seven years up um take us into 2025
  • 00:21:18
    2026 I think it'll be
  • 00:21:20
    2026 and you know I he's described there
  • 00:21:23
    what happens during the cycle and at the
  • 00:21:25
    moment
  • 00:21:26
    currently uh where the dot is that's
  • 00:21:29
    where we think we are at the moment
  • 00:21:30
    which I think is probably once you see
  • 00:21:32
    the cycle it's reasonably
  • 00:21:34
    self-explanatory we're halfway through
  • 00:21:35
    the next second half second half the
  • 00:21:38
    second expansion and it's it's in the
  • 00:21:41
    second half that you get looser monetary
  • 00:21:43
    policy uh we start to get a construction
  • 00:21:46
    boom uh countries around the world VI
  • 00:21:49
    for the tallest building and that you
  • 00:21:51
    can see that's going on in right now
  • 00:21:53
    it's been quite unbelievable I noticed
  • 00:21:56
    of all things the Oklahoma of come out
  • 00:21:58
    and announce that the world they're
  • 00:22:00
    going to build the world's tallest
  • 00:22:02
    building I've got no idea why it would
  • 00:22:03
    be Oklahoma I've got no idea what what's
  • 00:22:05
    happening there but but it must be
  • 00:22:07
    something because they're I reckon
  • 00:22:08
    they're going to build the world world's
  • 00:22:10
    tallest and so uh the competition starts
  • 00:22:13
    and then you end up usually at the same
  • 00:22:15
    time you you every single cycle it's
  • 00:22:17
    been the same every sing Single cycle
  • 00:22:19
    since about 1900 lavish government
  • 00:22:21
    expenditure comes out for the government
  • 00:22:22
    because they've got to keep things
  • 00:22:24
    sticking over and they don't want
  • 00:22:25
    revolutions various things and so we see
  • 00:22:27
    a lot of expenditure on and in this case
  • 00:22:30
    in in the United States in this
  • 00:22:31
    particular cycle it's turned up it's
  • 00:22:34
    it's uh it's quite quite lavish
  • 00:22:37
    government subsidies from the um from
  • 00:22:39
    the Biden
  • 00:22:40
    Administration you know and uh that
  • 00:22:43
    regardless of what happens with the
  • 00:22:45
    election coming up should it be run by
  • 00:22:47
    the Democratic side um they'll continue
  • 00:22:49
    those policies if it ends up with the
  • 00:22:51
    Republican side you can see what's
  • 00:22:52
    already coming tax cuts and various
  • 00:22:55
    things which will which will just push
  • 00:22:57
    the cycle even higher so so let me ask
  • 00:23:01
    you this if you can act as my coach for
  • 00:23:03
    a moment um you know we develop Self
  • 00:23:05
    Storage I'm an acquisition so I'm the
  • 00:23:07
    person that's out buying the land so as
  • 00:23:09
    we're putting together our portfolio
  • 00:23:11
    based on your real estate cycle when
  • 00:23:13
    would you say is like let's say we've
  • 00:23:15
    got four to eight beautiful self- stored
  • 00:23:17
    sites what would be the ideal time to
  • 00:23:19
    sell those to maximize the
  • 00:23:22
    premium well that's uh that's not always
  • 00:23:26
    an easy question because because I don't
  • 00:23:29
    know the circumstances of every
  • 00:23:31
    individual investor and um uh I'm not
  • 00:23:35
    necessarily always trying to suggest
  • 00:23:38
    that uh with existing portfolio and
  • 00:23:41
    existing Holdings you try and time the
  • 00:23:42
    cycle exactly uh the purpose of of where
  • 00:23:46
    we are at now and the and the the guide
  • 00:23:50
    to the cycle that you've got in front of
  • 00:23:51
    you from from about this year going
  • 00:23:55
    forward uh and and then certainly uh as
  • 00:23:58
    we go into the the what I think will be
  • 00:24:00
    the peak
  • 00:24:02
    2026 because history shows that a fairly
  • 00:24:06
    significant land price lead recession
  • 00:24:08
    happens at the end of every 14 years up
  • 00:24:11
    now is not the time to be attempting to
  • 00:24:16
    establish a really big portfolio if you
  • 00:24:20
    have to do it 100% geared and then
  • 00:24:23
    borrow even more money from another bank
  • 00:24:25
    to make sure you get the process and
  • 00:24:27
    make sure to do everything else it's
  • 00:24:28
    it's not the time to begin something now
  • 00:24:31
    uh going in massively
  • 00:24:34
    geared now whether it's the time for an
  • 00:24:38
    existing portfolio to sell it all well
  • 00:24:41
    I've always thought myself and with our
  • 00:24:43
    with our portfolio we've got in with our
  • 00:24:46
    family we're not sellers um we've been
  • 00:24:50
    uh we've been buyers over the cycle but
  • 00:24:53
    but we're happy with the with what we've
  • 00:24:55
    got all we've tried to do going into
  • 00:24:58
    every Peak you know we saw we saw 2007
  • 00:25:02
    89 coming is uh just pay down our
  • 00:25:05
    gearing a little bit so that when the
  • 00:25:08
    when the eventual downturn does happen
  • 00:25:11
    you actually you look good for the bank
  • 00:25:14
    because during those times of the
  • 00:25:16
    downturn the the bank is trying to
  • 00:25:17
    offload non-performing assets so if you
  • 00:25:20
    look good to the bank you stand a better
  • 00:25:22
    chance of picking up some of those
  • 00:25:23
    assets at at at very good discounts and
  • 00:25:28
    so so I'm not I'm not I'm not suggesting
  • 00:25:30
    that we should try and buy the bottom
  • 00:25:32
    and sell everything at the top but as we
  • 00:25:34
    go over the next couple of years it is
  • 00:25:36
    in my opinion the time to be putting
  • 00:25:40
    your house in order and putting your
  • 00:25:42
    portfolio in order and you you uh you
  • 00:25:44
    present it you try to present yourself
  • 00:25:46
    in a very effective well-run light uh
  • 00:25:49
    well-run um uh position so the banks can
  • 00:25:52
    see that you're you're running a very
  • 00:25:54
    effective portfolio and so you just make
  • 00:25:56
    yourself that it look as good as you can
  • 00:25:59
    uh for the for the bank and that's the
  • 00:26:02
    general idea so it's just trying to use
  • 00:26:04
    the cycle um to your advantage I hope
  • 00:26:07
    that makes sense for people I'm
  • 00:26:09
    not I never created the cycle and wrot
  • 00:26:12
    my book to try and show that you can buy
  • 00:26:14
    everything at the bottom then sell it
  • 00:26:15
    all at top you may try and you may try
  • 00:26:17
    and work that out but then you've got
  • 00:26:18
    tax considerations and everything else
  • 00:26:20
    that happens right so so all that comes
  • 00:26:22
    into play and uh I'm not an investment
  • 00:26:25
    advisor so I don't know everybody's
  • 00:26:26
    personal position but I I think you get
  • 00:26:28
    the idea is this sort of the the EB and
  • 00:26:30
    flow and so you know as you go into the
  • 00:26:33
    peak of the cycle and I'm sure you're
  • 00:26:34
    seeing at the moment with land prices so
  • 00:26:36
    high um it's harder to try and make
  • 00:26:38
    things work the yields compress uh and
  • 00:26:41
    various things and you you end up if you
  • 00:26:43
    want to get the land you want you
  • 00:26:44
    sometimes you got to overpay for it well
  • 00:26:45
    now's not really time to do that you
  • 00:26:48
    you're try and save up for a good cash
  • 00:26:50
    position a relatively good cash position
  • 00:26:52
    because I think uh the next downturn
  • 00:26:55
    which happens after 14 years up of land
  • 00:26:57
    prices and that happens in 2026 that's
  • 00:27:00
    when we reach the 14 the 14th year up
  • 00:27:03
    after that land prices will be too high
  • 00:27:05
    we should get the usual downturn it's
  • 00:27:07
    happened 11 times since 7day 92 in the
  • 00:27:10
    United States so uh there's fairly good
  • 00:27:12
    odds that it's coming again I think it
  • 00:27:15
    might be hard for some people to digest
  • 00:27:17
    and based
  • 00:27:18
    on this is based on what I'm reading
  • 00:27:21
    this graphic is that if the Green Dot is
  • 00:27:23
    where we're at and you think about our
  • 00:27:25
    rates have gone up housing prices in the
  • 00:27:27
    United States gone up dramatically since
  • 00:27:29
    Co but what I'm hearing is says hey
  • 00:27:31
    Chris we're just beginning like there's
  • 00:27:33
    still another couple of years for these
  • 00:27:34
    housing prices to escalate pretty
  • 00:27:37
    rapidly is that a fair assessment on my
  • 00:27:38
    part yes um I don't well it's you know
  • 00:27:44
    if you go back and what what what
  • 00:27:45
    happened let's just say people might
  • 00:27:47
    have a memory of the priz cycle say from
  • 00:27:49
    say from 2003 I mean you think about
  • 00:27:53
    what was happening in 2001 we all
  • 00:27:56
    remember n all the tragic events of 911
  • 00:27:59
    and and then into 2002 and 2003 the the
  • 00:28:03
    things that were happening in um in Iraq
  • 00:28:05
    and in the Middle East I remember in
  • 00:28:07
    2003 having conversations with people we
  • 00:28:10
    really thought the world was going to
  • 00:28:11
    end in 2003 everything that was
  • 00:28:13
    happening around the Middle East and and
  • 00:28:15
    various things and then Afghanistan it
  • 00:28:18
    was it was scary um you know what's
  • 00:28:21
    going on at the moment I don't think has
  • 00:28:22
    anything on on what had 2003 looked and
  • 00:28:27
    then uh nobody thought that there'd be
  • 00:28:29
    the massive boom that we got into 2005
  • 00:28:32
    six and seven I remember uh I used to go
  • 00:28:35
    to the United States yearly from about
  • 00:28:37
    1996 onwards because I was writing my
  • 00:28:39
    book so I I'd pick a state that I'd go
  • 00:28:42
    to the US usually summer time I'd pick a
  • 00:28:45
    state that I'd go and travel through and
  • 00:28:47
    try and sit down and write my book a bit
  • 00:28:49
    for a month or so and I that was when I
  • 00:28:52
    was studying you know back in 2004 or
  • 00:28:55
    something like that I was in St Louis at
  • 00:28:57
    the uh at the um Thomas Jefferson
  • 00:29:00
    Library there they've got a they've got
  • 00:29:02
    a whole room there on Roy wile's
  • 00:29:04
    material you know I was I was at the
  • 00:29:07
    airport and I was at one of the stations
  • 00:29:08
    down there and uh 2005 and six um all
  • 00:29:13
    you could see was what Paris Hilton was
  • 00:29:15
    doing I mean she was the she was the
  • 00:29:17
    flavor of the month if you can remember
  • 00:29:19
    back that far and then in 2007 the
  • 00:29:21
    iPhone H the markets and people went
  • 00:29:23
    nuts I mean really really didn't so I'm
  • 00:29:26
    seeing all that Echo with all of the
  • 00:29:28
    artificial intelligence and everything
  • 00:29:29
    that's happening at the moment you know
  • 00:29:31
    there's a lot of money to be spent so it
  • 00:29:34
    wouldn't be the first time if we things
  • 00:29:36
    really progressed from here and
  • 00:29:37
    everything got excited uh it was the
  • 00:29:40
    same back in
  • 00:29:42
    1984 um 1983 8485 there were there were
  • 00:29:45
    also Middle East troubles where were the
  • 00:29:47
    United States was dealing with that that
  • 00:29:49
    Troublesome dictator Saddam Hussein and
  • 00:29:51
    what was going on in Iran you know
  • 00:29:53
    things haven't changed that much really
  • 00:29:56
    um and uh people were nervous back then
  • 00:29:58
    and then we you know 1987 October 87 we
  • 00:30:01
    got that Almighty stock market crash
  • 00:30:03
    which if you I was trading back then I
  • 00:30:05
    remember I remember it happened
  • 00:30:07
    yesterday um the market the Dow came
  • 00:30:10
    down by 50% in the space of know a week
  • 00:30:14
    two weeks I mean it was a really big
  • 00:30:16
    thing but real estate house prices they
  • 00:30:20
    kept going up right into 198 88 89 right
  • 00:30:24
    around the world it was just a really
  • 00:30:26
    big uh spectal frenzy that was taking
  • 00:30:29
    place and the Dow Dow recovered fairly
  • 00:30:31
    quickly and here we are now we're
  • 00:30:33
    worried about the same things and um you
  • 00:30:36
    know how and crisis keep going up so
  • 00:30:40
    that you know it's a it's an interesting
  • 00:30:41
    question you ask because because
  • 00:30:46
    um you have to ask yourself why and and
  • 00:30:51
    I was I think if I may say so humbly I
  • 00:30:55
    think which you can you can say for
  • 00:30:59
    which I think you saw as a as a member
  • 00:31:01
    of all the material I write all as a
  • 00:31:03
    subscriber I think I was the only person
  • 00:31:06
    in the world back in 2022 and 2023 that
  • 00:31:10
    said as as interest rates went up and
  • 00:31:13
    they went up fairly rapidly I said to
  • 00:31:15
    everybody I knew that as interest rates
  • 00:31:17
    went up house prices would continue
  • 00:31:19
    going up yes now now I wasn't saying
  • 00:31:22
    that there'd be some that it'd be fun
  • 00:31:24
    for everybody that clearly there's been
  • 00:31:26
    some trouble in various markets and
  • 00:31:27
    people people who were you know it it
  • 00:31:29
    did create a few problems for people
  • 00:31:31
    which was unexpected and wasn't
  • 00:31:32
    foreseeing but as a general rule if you
  • 00:31:35
    look back since 1955 the FED Has Lifted
  • 00:31:38
    rates 11 times and 11 of those times
  • 00:31:43
    like exactly the same every time house
  • 00:31:45
    prices continued to go up or stayed
  • 00:31:47
    about the same level but never on any
  • 00:31:49
    occasion fell
  • 00:31:52
    and it it's just intrigued me why nobody
  • 00:31:55
    can ever see their history like that and
  • 00:31:58
    and if I you know again if I can say
  • 00:32:02
    um economists you know the fed the FED
  • 00:32:04
    has a thousand Economist working for
  • 00:32:06
    them I believe um and this is because
  • 00:32:09
    the the role of the land market it's
  • 00:32:11
    been completely written out of the
  • 00:32:14
    economic
  • 00:32:15
    textbooks uh economics like that it has
  • 00:32:18
    been corrupted before the first world
  • 00:32:20
    war every Economist understood that
  • 00:32:22
    there were three factors of production
  • 00:32:24
    land labor and capital land in
  • 00:32:26
    particular and people saw it them
  • 00:32:28
    because most of the world were farmers
  • 00:32:30
    and um and uh they they progressed from
  • 00:32:35
    from from that but then after after the
  • 00:32:38
    after the first world war generally what
  • 00:32:40
    was happening from there um because
  • 00:32:43
    there were so many sort of like in the
  • 00:32:47
    late 1800s there were so many land
  • 00:32:50
    reform movements that were happening um
  • 00:32:53
    it was starting to threaten the
  • 00:32:55
    established interests especially in the
  • 00:32:58
    in the United Kingdom um so there was a
  • 00:33:01
    job done on economics to to write land
  • 00:33:04
    out of the equation and now all
  • 00:33:07
    economists have taught that land is part
  • 00:33:08
    of capital so it's just land and it's
  • 00:33:10
    just labor and capital and so you miss
  • 00:33:13
    you missed the whole thing uh about the
  • 00:33:16
    role of land and then once you once the
  • 00:33:18
    role once land is taken out you'll never
  • 00:33:20
    get Tau it at the economics University
  • 00:33:23
    um so you'll never have a chance to
  • 00:33:24
    study it you'll you'll never you'll
  • 00:33:26
    never start to interpret what the how an
  • 00:33:29
    economy can be cyclical and it's a great
  • 00:33:31
    shame because it's um it's uh it's been
  • 00:33:34
    missed and so it it leads then for for
  • 00:33:39
    people uh you know originally like
  • 00:33:41
    myself and and like others uh you tend
  • 00:33:44
    to make uh you you it's much easier to
  • 00:33:47
    make poor investment decisions based on
  • 00:33:50
    incomplete knowledge because the role of
  • 00:33:52
    land's been written out of economics and
  • 00:33:54
    so then when you get a downturn like we
  • 00:33:56
    do at the a correction in the stock
  • 00:33:59
    market you then have you know you start
  • 00:34:01
    to get worried about oh what am I going
  • 00:34:02
    to do what do I do with my investments
  • 00:34:04
    what's land what's the economy going to
  • 00:34:05
    do now and then you get economists come
  • 00:34:07
    out and say well this it looks like
  • 00:34:09
    we'll get yet another Obsession that's a
  • 00:34:11
    you know they're forecasting so in your
  • 00:34:13
    recessions all the time um what's a
  • 00:34:15
    person to do so you know so so yeah so
  • 00:34:20
    it's been so helpful for me and I I hear
  • 00:34:22
    it from all my subscribers they they
  • 00:34:24
    wrri in all the time and say Phil it's
  • 00:34:26
    just taking all the stress away from him
  • 00:34:28
    investing doesn't mean it's stress less
  • 00:34:30
    obviously but but it just it just takes
  • 00:34:32
    all the this the worry the day-to-day
  • 00:34:35
    worry out of your um your investment
  • 00:34:39
    making decisions yeah Phil I think one
  • 00:34:42
    of the things that I'm just so grateful
  • 00:34:43
    about the information you put out like I
  • 00:34:45
    come from the media right so I was used
  • 00:34:46
    to these day-to-day headlines and all
  • 00:34:48
    the just fear and anger that gets seed
  • 00:34:51
    into the Consciousness and when you
  • 00:34:54
    understand the real estate site from the
  • 00:34:55
    information you put out it allows just
  • 00:34:57
    to sort of throw those headlines to like
  • 00:35:00
    this doesn't mean anything does not
  • 00:35:01
    really matter so I want to touch on this
  • 00:35:04
    um you mentioned hey Chris there's been
  • 00:35:06
    a repeat of the cycle since 1792 there's
  • 00:35:09
    a couple times though it's been
  • 00:35:10
    disrupted and that's by by War and you
  • 00:35:12
    mentioned the Middle East I mean today
  • 00:35:15
    Egyptian Airlines said hey don't fly
  • 00:35:16
    over Iran tonight I mean do you see a
  • 00:35:18
    potential of this cycle being
  • 00:35:20
    disrupted well it's always possible I
  • 00:35:23
    don't I don't have a day-to-day crystal
  • 00:35:25
    ball as such I mean I've got my my my
  • 00:35:27
    great uh working working model of of
  • 00:35:31
    over an 18.6 year period but uh you know
  • 00:35:35
    it's always possible um things can
  • 00:35:37
    happen that just uh just uh you know
  • 00:35:40
    hote heads and various things and you
  • 00:35:42
    know the situation in the Middle East it
  • 00:35:44
    does look it does look Grim yes but all
  • 00:35:46
    I can say is if if people get a chance
  • 00:35:48
    to to have a look at the you know in my
  • 00:35:51
    book I document the 11 prior Cycles in
  • 00:35:54
    some detail and you get to see that
  • 00:35:57
    really this this current time it's never
  • 00:35:58
    really been any different yeah now in
  • 00:36:00
    the second half of the real estate cycle
  • 00:36:03
    um there's a lot more money around a lot
  • 00:36:05
    more rent has been manifest people chase
  • 00:36:08
    that rent dictators come forward to
  • 00:36:10
    capture that rent in various economies
  • 00:36:12
    especially if their economy has a
  • 00:36:13
    prodigious amount of resources like you
  • 00:36:15
    see in say Argentina and other places
  • 00:36:18
    like that
  • 00:36:19
    um the uh the the the um Middle East
  • 00:36:25
    empires of they're doing the same oil
  • 00:36:28
    was discovered it's just one family
  • 00:36:29
    after another that tries to get hold of
  • 00:36:30
    it so so the the current drenal vents in
  • 00:36:36
    in the Middle East it isn't really any
  • 00:36:39
    different from what it's been like in
  • 00:36:41
    other times at this part of the cycle um
  • 00:36:45
    they had what did interrupt the cycle
  • 00:36:46
    was the the first world war that
  • 00:36:49
    happened uh that took that started right
  • 00:36:51
    at the peak of that cycle that happened
  • 00:36:53
    from about 1896 into
  • 00:36:55
    1914 and then um the second world war
  • 00:36:58
    which I which I would really consider
  • 00:37:00
    was a basic continuation of the first um
  • 00:37:03
    that the first world war meant that uh
  • 00:37:05
    we didn't really see the downturn from
  • 00:37:07
    the prior upturn because the government
  • 00:37:09
    took over and then um throughout after
  • 00:37:12
    we had the the Great Depression after
  • 00:37:14
    the really big huge uh during n during
  • 00:37:17
    1920s um after that downturn that that
  • 00:37:20
    Dreadful downturn and the depression
  • 00:37:22
    that led directly to the second world
  • 00:37:24
    war and there was no cycle to speak of
  • 00:37:27
    through that war because the US
  • 00:37:28
    government forbid speculation and you
  • 00:37:31
    couldn't buy and sell anything else
  • 00:37:32
    except bonds and various things and the
  • 00:37:34
    government was vying for your savings
  • 00:37:36
    because uh they wanted they had a water
  • 00:37:38
    fight so it's not quite the same at the
  • 00:37:40
    moment but uh it is possible like that
  • 00:37:43
    but and then if if if um hostilities did
  • 00:37:47
    really break out in the Middle East um I
  • 00:37:50
    don't really think it's it's not really
  • 00:37:52
    going to create a downturn because war
  • 00:37:55
    is generally profitable for business
  • 00:37:58
    you know Commodities get bought and sold
  • 00:38:00
    still um the only thing that might
  • 00:38:03
    happen would be there'd be probably less
  • 00:38:06
    speculation permitted if the government
  • 00:38:08
    if the US government went all in because
  • 00:38:09
    they'd be asking people to buy war bonds
  • 00:38:11
    and various things like that so that
  • 00:38:13
    tends to stoke up some of the excess
  • 00:38:15
    speculative Capital but I it's I would
  • 00:38:17
    be very surprised in fact I be the first
  • 00:38:20
    time ever in history it would lead to a
  • 00:38:21
    major downt I want to get into um the
  • 00:38:24
    downt here so your suggest acas let's
  • 00:38:26
    look into the TW 26 you think there's
  • 00:38:28
    still going to be this what you call the
  • 00:38:29
    Winter's curse and then post 2026 things
  • 00:38:32
    will start to go towards a downt and my
  • 00:38:35
    question for you is what do you think is
  • 00:38:36
    going to be the Catalyst of that and I
  • 00:38:38
    share that in the context of you know
  • 00:38:40
    there's over $2.9 trillion dollars of
  • 00:38:43
    commercial real estate LS that are
  • 00:38:44
    coming due between 2024 and 2028 do you
  • 00:38:48
    you feel like that's going to be the
  • 00:38:49
    Catalyst or what do you what do you
  • 00:38:51
    think uh not at the moment um you know
  • 00:38:54
    if you we're at the same time of the
  • 00:38:55
    cycle let's you know go back in um 2003
  • 00:38:59
    1983 84 we're talking you know 1967 68
  • 00:39:04
    same time in the cycle like that right
  • 00:39:06
    um there were also difficulties back
  • 00:39:09
    then um at the moment there is obviously
  • 00:39:13
    there are there are difficulties in um
  • 00:39:15
    in the some commercial areas um I think
  • 00:39:20
    for the moment uh around the world and
  • 00:39:22
    in the US uh government will get a bit
  • 00:39:25
    of a handle on that first because
  • 00:39:26
    they'll be able to look in some
  • 00:39:28
    particular areas and I think they're
  • 00:39:29
    already possibly already doing this in
  • 00:39:30
    Boston already some of the existing real
  • 00:39:33
    estate buildings that are uh that are
  • 00:39:35
    empty the government and the council the
  • 00:39:38
    local government there they get the
  • 00:39:39
    chance to perhaps at the
  • 00:39:41
    moment convert or enforce conversion of
  • 00:39:45
    those those commercial warehouses and
  • 00:39:48
    various things into uh housing so that
  • 00:39:51
    can take place also at the moment there
  • 00:39:53
    there is still an enormous amount of
  • 00:39:56
    cash around I think is it um is it
  • 00:39:58
    Warren Buffett what's he was it what the
  • 00:40:00
    figure they CED the other day 20 2
  • 00:40:03
    billion cash yeah this is a lot of money
  • 00:40:06
    I could do a right with that money Chris
  • 00:40:08
    I tell you um Apple's Apple's got a lot
  • 00:40:11
    of Apple's got a lot of money on their
  • 00:40:13
    Microsoft they got a lot of cash
  • 00:40:15
    available and there are still a lot of
  • 00:40:16
    vulture funds around they will they will
  • 00:40:19
    come in and they'll assess what those
  • 00:40:21
    things are worth now and they'll work
  • 00:40:22
    out whether they can convert it or buy
  • 00:40:24
    in and put it to other uses or or
  • 00:40:27
    whatever else that has to be done so all
  • 00:40:29
    that's got to go through yet um I don't
  • 00:40:32
    really see that too much as a problem I
  • 00:40:34
    think the next move on interest rates
  • 00:40:35
    will be down this will bring a lot more
  • 00:40:37
    people into the market um the reason why
  • 00:40:41
    the reason why it was suggested that the
  • 00:40:43
    current time from about now into 2026
  • 00:40:49
    which is what it was the prior cycle say
  • 00:40:51
    2005 into 2007 and say from uh 198 7
  • 00:40:57
    into 1989 just go to go back a couple of
  • 00:41:00
    Cycles the reason why we've called it
  • 00:41:02
    the wind's curse phase is more to do
  • 00:41:04
    with residential and anything else and
  • 00:41:06
    so it is likely sometimes that it is it
  • 00:41:09
    has been usual sometimes that uh the
  • 00:41:12
    interest rates drop a little after they
  • 00:41:14
    were lifted and where at that time where
  • 00:41:16
    that may happen that will bring a lot
  • 00:41:18
    more people into the market because uh
  • 00:41:21
    housing housing itself but AKA land
  • 00:41:23
    prices but housing has been become that
  • 00:41:26
    much more unaffordable because morges
  • 00:41:28
    did go up the government then tries to
  • 00:41:32
    create all sorts of structures to to BR
  • 00:41:34
    to to make housing more affordable so
  • 00:41:37
    you see a lengthening in the mortgage
  • 00:41:39
    process so we go from 10 or 20 or 30
  • 00:41:42
    mortgages in Australia they're talking
  • 00:41:44
    here now 50-year mortgages they'll do
  • 00:41:46
    the same thing in the UK I think America
  • 00:41:47
    will probably do something similar it
  • 00:41:50
    may not happen from the major Banks but
  • 00:41:52
    it'll probably happen from some of our
  • 00:41:53
    friends lenders um and so that's one way
  • 00:41:56
    to make housing more affordable that
  • 00:41:59
    brings uh a lot more first home buyers
  • 00:42:02
    into the market at what I would consider
  • 00:42:03
    exactly the wrong time where we're going
  • 00:42:05
    into the peak and so when the peak does
  • 00:42:09
    happen which which at some point we must
  • 00:42:11
    get some sort of downturn um very sort
  • 00:42:14
    of people going into negative equity
  • 00:42:16
    because they look brought at the peak
  • 00:42:18
    and then um and then that's why we call
  • 00:42:20
    it the winners curse so it's more from
  • 00:42:21
    the residential point of view so it's
  • 00:42:24
    you've got to be really careful now from
  • 00:42:25
    the cyclical point of view about the mov
  • 00:42:27
    you take out and and various things you
  • 00:42:29
    just not want to be doing something you
  • 00:42:30
    can't for so I want to talk about what
  • 00:42:33
    you see coming so let's say we get
  • 00:42:36
    through this cycle and all a sudden the
  • 00:42:38
    downturn happens I want to share with
  • 00:42:40
    you a clip from an interview that you
  • 00:42:43
    did back in this is from
  • 00:42:45
    2023 I want to share with their audience
  • 00:42:47
    what you said and then just give you a
  • 00:42:49
    chance to add some context to it okay so
  • 00:42:51
    this is you saying hey guys get ready
  • 00:42:53
    you know once this peak hits be prepared
  • 00:42:56
    and here's what you shared back into I I
  • 00:42:58
    don't usually I don't usually rewatch my
  • 00:43:00
    things this would be
  • 00:43:01
    novel enjoy because it was good to find
  • 00:43:04
    ways to avoid Revolution and that's when
  • 00:43:07
    you start to see things really happen
  • 00:43:09
    and it'll just the repeat for me the
  • 00:43:11
    right um I'm telling you I'm telling
  • 00:43:13
    your viewers get ready for what's coming
  • 00:43:15
    after 2026 because every time there's a
  • 00:43:18
    land price let downt the fundamentals
  • 00:43:19
    change right and um the banks the banks
  • 00:43:24
    will uh start using the the AI they'll
  • 00:43:27
    they'll be be able to very well know
  • 00:43:29
    what your personal circumstances are
  • 00:43:31
    they'll be able to determine whether you
  • 00:43:33
    should continue with the loan or not um
  • 00:43:36
    landlords and Banks themselves they'll
  • 00:43:37
    be able to use the AI on the phone U to
  • 00:43:40
    to to say that if you can't end up
  • 00:43:42
    paying your mortgage or you can't pay
  • 00:43:43
    the rent um they'll be able to lock the
  • 00:43:46
    house from the phone from your phone
  • 00:43:48
    they'll be able to lock you out of your
  • 00:43:49
    own premises probably um there'll be all
  • 00:43:51
    sorts of Technology come through that
  • 00:43:53
    that is going to make people's life
  • 00:43:54
    really hard if you're too much debt I
  • 00:43:58
    tell you um you know people can't see it
  • 00:44:01
    but things turn when they do turn they
  • 00:44:03
    turn vicious and that's when the the the
  • 00:44:06
    technology that's been newly invented
  • 00:44:08
    that's when it turns to its Dark Side um
  • 00:44:11
    and it's used to uh throw people out of
  • 00:44:13
    work throw people out of their homes and
  • 00:44:15
    all sorts of other stuff and that's so I
  • 00:44:18
    mean it's l said there what do you see
  • 00:44:21
    happening in this downturn and how
  • 00:44:22
    should people
  • 00:44:24
    prepare yes well I think I said that
  • 00:44:26
    before the AI stuff started really I
  • 00:44:29
    think didn't I from from memory um so
  • 00:44:33
    well see on the upside everything looks
  • 00:44:35
    Rosy and everything looks fantastic and
  • 00:44:38
    it's blue sky ahead but when the
  • 00:44:40
    downturn starts taking place uh and as
  • 00:44:43
    we get further into the
  • 00:44:44
    downturn um corporations and individuals
  • 00:44:48
    and Property Owners they and even the
  • 00:44:51
    the property users they start to find
  • 00:44:54
    that they've got space that they didn't
  • 00:44:56
    think they had so they contract a little
  • 00:44:58
    bit and they start doing more with less
  • 00:45:01
    uh also I this time I think even more
  • 00:45:06
    than any other time you know during Co
  • 00:45:09
    we had to you had to people were able to
  • 00:45:11
    work from home and I personally thought
  • 00:45:13
    this was absolutely fantastic and I
  • 00:45:15
    think you know a lot of people got used
  • 00:45:16
    to it um and it was very difficult to
  • 00:45:18
    entice people to come back to the office
  • 00:45:20
    in the first instance um and people
  • 00:45:23
    people found with the that's when we
  • 00:45:24
    started using the technology in Earnest
  • 00:45:26
    and and everything
  • 00:45:28
    else and uh we were able to start doing
  • 00:45:32
    things from home that we didn't think
  • 00:45:34
    we'd ever do outside the office but uh
  • 00:45:37
    when we get when the when the when the
  • 00:45:39
    next downturn happens um if your job can
  • 00:45:43
    be done from home it means it can also
  • 00:45:45
    be done from any part of anywhere else
  • 00:45:46
    in the world and so there'll be
  • 00:45:48
    Outsourcing in Earnest and rather than
  • 00:45:52
    paying like an American or an Australian
  • 00:45:54
    weage which can be you know 10 20 30
  • 00:45:58
    bucks an hour leading to you know the
  • 00:45:59
    average whatever the average wage is um
  • 00:46:02
    some of your jobs might be able to be
  • 00:46:04
    done from say the Philippines or from
  • 00:46:06
    India or other things yes and that can
  • 00:46:08
    be done at $250 $3 an hour or whatever
  • 00:46:10
    it is um so that's the first thing so if
  • 00:46:13
    your job can be done at home it can also
  • 00:46:15
    be outsourced to any part of the world
  • 00:46:17
    that will start to happen in Earnest as
  • 00:46:19
    corporations seek to um the reduce costs
  • 00:46:23
    um not only that but uh I suspect with
  • 00:46:26
    AI this time there'll be certain in
  • 00:46:29
    there'll be certain industries but that
  • 00:46:31
    just completely replaced by what AI can
  • 00:46:34
    do that happens in Earnest when
  • 00:46:36
    corporations really have to reduce costs
  • 00:46:38
    they're not so much under pressure at
  • 00:46:39
    the moment um because within with with
  • 00:46:42
    the the lifting and cost and inflation
  • 00:46:44
    and things it's quite easy for them to
  • 00:46:46
    pass it on now but but but in the
  • 00:46:49
    downturn it becomes that much harder to
  • 00:46:52
    pass on cost so they've got to do cost
  • 00:46:53
    savings otherwise and it's it's labor
  • 00:46:56
    that that uh that uh Bears the the brunt
  • 00:46:59
    of that um in addition as well you'll
  • 00:47:03
    also you get the situation where um if
  • 00:47:07
    people start to see that prices are
  • 00:47:10
    going to be lower tomorrow than they are
  • 00:47:13
    today and they stop buying and they wait
  • 00:47:16
    and that's what happens initially with
  • 00:47:17
    the housing market they start this when
  • 00:47:19
    the turn happens people think well I'm
  • 00:47:21
    not going to buy my house today because
  • 00:47:23
    it's probably going to be cheaper
  • 00:47:24
    tomorrow and so you get that per per of
  • 00:47:27
    a year and a half whatever it is where
  • 00:47:28
    just there's just buying dries up
  • 00:47:30
    because people understand that prices
  • 00:47:32
    could be lower so the the look of a
  • 00:47:36
    downturn is fundamentally different to
  • 00:47:37
    the upturn so uh you know I think this
  • 00:47:40
    and the way the technology will be used
  • 00:47:43
    um will be I think it's going to be
  • 00:47:45
    difficult for people that are that can't
  • 00:47:47
    pay their debts or owe a lot on houses
  • 00:47:49
    and cars because there'll be new ways to
  • 00:47:51
    there'll be new ways to to uh to uh get
  • 00:47:55
    the assets breing so just to summarize
  • 00:47:58
    for people as they can get a feel for
  • 00:47:59
    the cycle um your Sugg in acas we still
  • 00:48:02
    got a couple years of the winters curse
  • 00:48:03
    where prices are going to go
  • 00:48:05
    precipitously then look at you know mid
  • 00:48:07
    2026 and Beyond the downt to start then
  • 00:48:11
    just get ready and be prepared to deploy
  • 00:48:13
    some capital and get some good deals is
  • 00:48:14
    that a fair assessment well if if the
  • 00:48:17
    Real Estate Circle is to repeat that's
  • 00:48:20
    how it's going to repeat and uh you know
  • 00:48:22
    as you've seen um I've called the repeat
  • 00:48:25
    starting in 200 12 I said we go the way
  • 00:48:28
    the clock done has done and it did do it
  • 00:48:30
    and the current events where we are at
  • 00:48:32
    the moment I put of 20203 2024 where
  • 00:48:36
    we'd be getting leverage government
  • 00:48:37
    expenditure and and the competition for
  • 00:48:39
    the world's tallest um you know I I put
  • 00:48:42
    that on my clock 2014 I said in 2014
  • 00:48:46
    that's what would be happening in 2023
  • 00:48:49
    2024 uh and it is so so far this the the
  • 00:48:52
    turn the the the clock the real estate
  • 00:48:55
    cycle since the bottom into 2012 it's
  • 00:48:57
    been pretty been pretty good so and I
  • 00:48:59
    don't see any reason now now at the
  • 00:49:01
    moment why that won't continue so I just
  • 00:49:04
    assure it will continue and I just make
  • 00:49:06
    my investment judgments based on that
  • 00:49:09
    and you know
  • 00:49:10
    I I'm I've spent the last I've spent the
  • 00:49:14
    last six months organizing my own
  • 00:49:15
    Affairs I've I've um I've uh sold one
  • 00:49:20
    place in Melbourne that I should never
  • 00:49:22
    really have thought really it was never
  • 00:49:24
    really performing and it was the wrong
  • 00:49:26
    thing I you know the Bo on that but I I
  • 00:49:29
    uh I I turned that into cash and i' I've
  • 00:49:33
    paid down one other one other place and
  • 00:49:35
    uh I the new place I bought the new
  • 00:49:37
    apartment I've bought that in the name
  • 00:49:38
    of my son so that's attempted to set him
  • 00:49:41
    up so that um when the downturn if it
  • 00:49:44
    takes place or when it takes place he
  • 00:49:46
    will he's only 22 at the moment but
  • 00:49:48
    he'll have a an asset behind him that
  • 00:49:51
    will give him a Kickstart for the next
  • 00:49:52
    cycle I'm not going to do it for him
  • 00:49:53
    that's his decisions to make but but
  • 00:49:56
    I've I've giving him the start as my
  • 00:49:58
    father did for me and so I've organized
  • 00:50:00
    that I'm happy with that I uh since
  • 00:50:03
    since he was born I put 50 us every week
  • 00:50:07
    into H into a just a a cash account
  • 00:50:12
    myself me you know I uh I uh when I
  • 00:50:15
    started writing my book I moved to
  • 00:50:16
    France but and that's where my son grew
  • 00:50:19
    up um but where're fortunate fortunate
  • 00:50:22
    same in Australia same in France I I
  • 00:50:24
    never had to to start a college fund for
  • 00:50:26
    I like you you have to do at the us so I
  • 00:50:29
    was able to just when he turned 21 I put
  • 00:50:32
    that cash over to him I don't think he'd
  • 00:50:34
    ever seen such big figers in his entire
  • 00:50:36
    life but you know that's what my father
  • 00:50:38
    did for me so so that's just trying to
  • 00:50:40
    set him up uh at the Peak at the moment
  • 00:50:43
    you know he NOS he's at the stage of
  • 00:50:44
    life where he's probably trying to find
  • 00:50:47
    a a nice girlfriend and think about a
  • 00:50:49
    wife and various things you know I've
  • 00:50:51
    just tried to say to him you know you
  • 00:50:53
    you
  • 00:50:54
    you the decisions that you make with the
  • 00:50:56
    house it's usually one of the biggest
  • 00:50:57
    decisions in Mak in your life and if you
  • 00:50:59
    make it at precisely the wrong time in
  • 00:51:01
    the cycle it can it it can ruin you for
  • 00:51:04
    the rest of your life it really can as
  • 00:51:05
    people saw in 2008 and 2009 so it's
  • 00:51:08
    something that you've got to try and at
  • 00:51:10
    least get reasonably correct um and so
  • 00:51:13
    that's what what I'm try to do for
  • 00:51:14
    myself and with with my subscribers and
  • 00:51:16
    various things like that at least get
  • 00:51:18
    them to think a little bit more about
  • 00:51:20
    not rushing into Investments based on a
  • 00:51:22
    based on emotion and based on big smiles
  • 00:51:25
    and what they like and what they like
  • 00:51:26
    it's got to be a hard-headed business
  • 00:51:28
    decision and if you can use the the
  • 00:51:30
    cycle time to guide you with the timing
  • 00:51:32
    well that's just absolutely fantastic so
  • 00:51:34
    that's what I tried to do on a personal
  • 00:51:36
    um capacity you can see that with my
  • 00:51:39
    subscribers that been helpful to be able
  • 00:51:40
    to make the same sort of decisions so
  • 00:51:43
    that's a great question what are you
  • 00:51:44
    currently doing right now are you are
  • 00:51:46
    you going more defensive into cash or
  • 00:51:49
    bonds or more defensive
  • 00:51:52
    portfolio well defensive yes with the
  • 00:51:54
    commercial stuff that the family has
  • 00:51:56
    with just tried to reduce the loan to
  • 00:51:58
    value uh which we which we've Reed you
  • 00:52:01
    know we're down to about 50% now which
  • 00:52:03
    we're happy with
  • 00:52:05
    um the but I'm also it's not just what
  • 00:52:09
    I'm necessarily doing at at at this time
  • 00:52:11
    of the cycle I'm also at a stage you
  • 00:52:13
    know I'm in my 60s now so I am trying to
  • 00:52:16
    wind down a bit I don't want to be I
  • 00:52:19
    want to write another book or two so I
  • 00:52:22
    don't really want to be making the
  • 00:52:23
    investment decisions that I made before
  • 00:52:25
    so I am I have been winding that part
  • 00:52:28
    down but that's just that's on personal
  • 00:52:30
    level um I'd be doing it a little
  • 00:52:32
    different if I was in my 30s and 30s I'd
  • 00:52:35
    be gearing up to put myself in a
  • 00:52:37
    situation where I present myself well to
  • 00:52:39
    the banks in in four or five years time
  • 00:52:42
    and I'd be uh comfortable uh trying to
  • 00:52:45
    do that I'd also if I was back in my 30s
  • 00:52:47
    and 40s I would I would take the time as
  • 00:52:51
    I did when I was back that age to
  • 00:52:53
    actually learn about these things and
  • 00:52:55
    spend my researching and you know do a
  • 00:52:58
    bit of um courses where you can and
  • 00:53:00
    learn about how the stock market stock
  • 00:53:02
    market Works learn about how the real
  • 00:53:04
    estate Cycle Works learn about the the
  • 00:53:06
    deficiencies in economics and the
  • 00:53:08
    deficiencies in finance and that you
  • 00:53:10
    should never really uh allow these
  • 00:53:13
    decisions to be made by someone else
  • 00:53:14
    you've got to take it on board yourself
  • 00:53:16
    and various things and of course some of
  • 00:53:19
    the some of the mistakes I made over the
  • 00:53:21
    years you know but when you're young you
  • 00:53:23
    can afford to make those mistakes
  • 00:53:25
    because you can always you get a chance
  • 00:53:27
    to start again whatever it has and you
  • 00:53:29
    know and various things I I I tell my
  • 00:53:31
    son you should always keep a reserve of
  • 00:53:34
    cash 10 or 20K there an absolute minimum
  • 00:53:37
    because he ever does make a real serious
  • 00:53:38
    mistake you can actually take that cash
  • 00:53:40
    out and start again so you never put
  • 00:53:42
    everything on the line and so I'm at
  • 00:53:44
    that stage myself in just this part of
  • 00:53:46
    this particular recy cycle this real
  • 00:53:48
    estate cycle I've seen three um you know
  • 00:53:51
    it's just time for me to wind down a
  • 00:53:52
    little bit I don't wish to retire the
  • 00:53:55
    richest man in the
  • 00:53:57
    cemetery so so I do want to spend it a
  • 00:54:01
    little I've been very lucky over the
  • 00:54:03
    time I I uh I look back very fondly on
  • 00:54:06
    my on my trips through the United States
  • 00:54:08
    having we in places where I'm WR to book
  • 00:54:11
    you know it's it's a funny thing I my my
  • 00:54:14
    favorite place in the United States
  • 00:54:16
    which I never thought I'd ever would
  • 00:54:17
    actually happen is Texas I
  • 00:54:20
    um I uh traveling from you know from El
  • 00:54:23
    Paso down to the Big Bend an areas like
  • 00:54:25
    that with the bees
  • 00:54:27
    and the scenery it's so you get a real
  • 00:54:31
    Australia used to this Australia
  • 00:54:32
    Australia travel Australia you get a
  • 00:54:34
    real sense of freedom but fing the Texas
  • 00:54:36
    as well you get an enormous amazing
  • 00:54:39
    sense of Freedom so you know I look back
  • 00:54:41
    fondly on my time da don't travel um
  • 00:54:45
    last question for you and then I'll give
  • 00:54:46
    you the last word is so I kind of
  • 00:54:48
    mentioned this before but based on the
  • 00:54:50
    cycle and with all these events coming
  • 00:54:52
    to Los Angeles and all the
  • 00:54:53
    infrastructure investment money coming
  • 00:54:55
    in would you see La is a good place to
  • 00:54:57
    make some Investments for Real
  • 00:54:59
    Estate yes it's um the Olympic Games and
  • 00:55:03
    those things that happened they are they
  • 00:55:05
    do they do affect the cycle on a city
  • 00:55:08
    specific uh location you know just in
  • 00:55:11
    Australia ourselves up in uh up in North
  • 00:55:14
    Australia in Brisbane we have the
  • 00:55:16
    Olympic Games in 2032 so that is going
  • 00:55:19
    to that the where where the where those
  • 00:55:23
    big Investments take place at one at
  • 00:55:27
    particular times in the cycle that does
  • 00:55:29
    affect the cycle in that state or in
  • 00:55:31
    that City so let me give you some
  • 00:55:33
    examples so you might be able to relate
  • 00:55:34
    this to La um the Olympic Games were
  • 00:55:37
    held in London in
  • 00:55:39
    2012 and I was there at that time and
  • 00:55:42
    the English you know what the English
  • 00:55:43
    can be like they're always they're
  • 00:55:45
    always a bit um joking about themselves
  • 00:55:48
    and never they never they they always
  • 00:55:50
    worried about their ability to to do
  • 00:55:53
    things completely different to the
  • 00:55:54
    Americans um they were all scared that
  • 00:55:57
    the 2012 Olympics would be a big huge
  • 00:56:00
    massive flop and then when it when it
  • 00:56:02
    was shown that uh um the the bond took
  • 00:56:06
    the queen out of the airplane and and
  • 00:56:08
    various other things that were happening
  • 00:56:09
    it was hugely exciting that kicked off
  • 00:56:12
    The Real Estate cycle in the United
  • 00:56:14
    Kingdom from the bottom and it was very
  • 00:56:16
    bullish up until the Olympics of 2012 in
  • 00:56:19
    London things were Weir and bearish
  • 00:56:22
    there' been riots and there had been
  • 00:56:23
    everything else and actually nobody
  • 00:56:25
    could for nobody knew when the next
  • 00:56:28
    kickoff would happen and then the
  • 00:56:29
    Olympics took place and it kicked things
  • 00:56:31
    off the the Olympics were in Sydney in
  • 00:56:33
    2000 and that was mid cycle and so
  • 00:56:36
    Sydney from about 2001 in 2007 the
  • 00:56:39
    second half of the real estate cycle
  • 00:56:40
    never really did everything anything
  • 00:56:41
    because the all the all the building and
  • 00:56:44
    the construction was sort of brought
  • 00:56:45
    forward for the Olympics and so when you
  • 00:56:48
    get something that's happening at the
  • 00:56:50
    end of the Olympics or or Beyond into
  • 00:56:52
    2028 2020
  • 00:56:54
    2030 that will give Los Angeles the
  • 00:56:57
    ability to stagger their stru their
  • 00:56:59
    infrastructure and probably alleviate
  • 00:57:01
    the downturn that might take place so
  • 00:57:03
    you just got to put that within the
  • 00:57:05
    context of the larger real estate cycle
  • 00:57:07
    I don't study cities individually per se
  • 00:57:11
    I just my book's just all about the
  • 00:57:13
    structure of the real estate cycle
  • 00:57:14
    within the United States itself then you
  • 00:57:17
    can see over history the United States
  • 00:57:19
    has had that real estate cycle but not
  • 00:57:21
    every city has partaken in the real
  • 00:57:23
    estate cycle you have to also think that
  • 00:57:27
    um Denver for example with its sprawl
  • 00:57:30
    and LA with its sprawl um and other
  • 00:57:33
    United State cities that have that SP
  • 00:57:36
    and El Paso is another one where the
  • 00:57:38
    where the city can expand and take and
  • 00:57:40
    go right out and go can go really over
  • 00:57:43
    the top towards the second half and they
  • 00:57:45
    do a lot of uh expansion of of the city
  • 00:57:48
    into the spool into the countryside that
  • 00:57:50
    can take a while to recover but cities
  • 00:57:52
    like San Francisco and New York that are
  • 00:57:55
    that are hemmed in as they are by by by
  • 00:57:58
    the bay and by the Sea um they tend to
  • 00:58:02
    recover much quicker because the the the
  • 00:58:05
    city can't expand as it does so you you
  • 00:58:08
    have to be able to take the the the
  • 00:58:10
    theoretical basis of the of the 18.6
  • 00:58:12
    your real estate Sol and then you've got
  • 00:58:14
    to Overlay it and apply your own local
  • 00:58:16
    real estate knowledge as to where you
  • 00:58:18
    are to then think about what what what
  • 00:58:20
    happen and that's important to do I
  • 00:58:21
    can't answer that particularly for every
  • 00:58:23
    specific question but but um and and
  • 00:58:26
    perhaps one final example usually the
  • 00:58:28
    biggest downturn takes place where the
  • 00:58:29
    world's tallest is being built that'sa
  • 00:58:33
    so so we I'd be interested to see what
  • 00:58:35
    happens in Oklahoma probably they would
  • 00:58:37
    have a fairly significant down to worse
  • 00:58:39
    than the rest of the United States but
  • 00:58:40
    that's just based on historical things
  • 00:58:42
    we got a
  • 00:58:43
    second Phil I want to say thank you for
  • 00:58:46
    your time I want to be respectful of it
  • 00:58:48
    we talked about doing an hour so thank
  • 00:58:49
    you so much I want to invite everybody
  • 00:58:52
    just do yourself a favor and get the
  • 00:58:53
    book it's a phenomenal phenomenal read
  • 00:58:56
    and Phil I just want to give you the
  • 00:58:57
    last word any else you want to add or
  • 00:58:58
    share that I haven't asked you uh no it
  • 00:59:01
    was um it was all pretty good uh I hope
  • 00:59:04
    to get to the United States uh soon and
  • 00:59:06
    and um and visit again it's been
  • 00:59:10
    fantastic having researched the history
  • 00:59:12
    of it's it's it's a marvelous history
  • 00:59:14
    you know what what Americans have done
  • 00:59:17
    with the country they can do spirit it's
  • 00:59:19
    been it's fantastic for me to see and
  • 00:59:21
    Australians very similar like they in
  • 00:59:23
    the same sort of way so it's been great
  • 00:59:24
    to be here thanks to be one sure great I
  • 00:59:28
    mean hope we can have you back we didn't
  • 00:59:29
    really talk about you know the power of
  • 00:59:31
    speculation and really how the Virginia
  • 00:59:33
    Company back in the early 1600s were
  • 00:59:36
    created the United States so it's just
  • 00:59:38
    so many things to discuss with you I
  • 00:59:39
    just am grateful for the work you put in
  • 00:59:41
    and we'll do this again okay right thank
  • 00:59:45
    youon check out the book it's fantastic
  • 00:59:47
    here's his website property sharemarket
  • 00:59:49
    economics.com as well if you want to
  • 00:59:50
    find out more about what they're doing
  • 00:59:52
    to educate people out there again this
  • 00:59:54
    is the commercial real estate report if
  • 00:59:56
    how are you to build a generational
  • 00:59:57
    wealth with real estate
Tags
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  • Phil Anderson
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