What is the main source of Brenford's success according to the coach?

The main source of Brenford's success is the club's culture, teamwork, and people, not just data analysis.

What role does 'belief' play in Brenford's strategy?

Belief is crucial; the coach emphasizes the importance of believing in the ability to win every game, regardless of the opponent.

How does the coach describe Brenford's use of data?

While Brenford uses data effectively, like other clubs, it is not the primary source of their success. The team is more focused on culture and people.

What strategy does Brenford use to maintain its competitive edge in the Premier League?

Brenford relies on innovation, bravery, and a cohesive culture to compete and succeed in the Premier League.

What advice does the coach give regarding team culture?

He advises building a strong, inclusive culture focused on respect, hard work, and togetherness while empowering cultural architects within the team.

How important is innovation according to the Brenford coach?

Innovation, along with bravery, is critical in staying competitive and achieving goals, highlighted by their unique in-game strategies.

Thomas Frank Masterclass: The Secret To Brentford's Success & What's Next

00:55:11

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04p7631jn6Y

Summary

TLDRThe Brenford story as discussed in this podcast episode is about the football club's success attributed largely not to data, as popularly believed, but to the culture, teamwork, and belief fostered within the club. The coach stresses the immense value culture has over strategy, drawing attention to the efforts made by the team both on and off the field. The approach of maintaining a high-performance environment involves innovation, bravery, and providing room for personal growth for both staff and players. It is not just the mere collection and analysis of data that propels the team, but the cohesive culture that builds winning attitudes. Furthermore, there's an assertion on leadership, with an emphasis on identifying cultural architects to spread and embody team values. The journey and success of Brenford hinge on values like hard work, respect, and cooperation rather than merely the employment of analytical tools.

Takeaways

🔹 Belief in winning is paramount for Brenford.
🔸 Culture triumphs over data at Brenford.
📊 Data is used but is not the focal point.
💡 Innovation drives competitive strategies.
🤝 Teamwork and people are at the core of success.
😊 A welcoming performance culture enhances results.
🎯 Hard work and high standards are expected.
👥 Cultural architects help maintain team values.
📈 Continuous development is essential.
🏆 Brenford aspires to be a Premier League asset.

Timeline

00:00:00 - 00:05:00
The Brenford story highlights the importance of belief over mere realism, with an emphasis on going into every game with the mindset that winning is possible. While data is often associated with Brenford's strategies, the importance of culture and people in creating a successful environment is stressed, asserting that culture beats strategy.
00:05:00 - 00:10:00
The culture at Brenford values hard work, accompanying demands with consequence and love. The approach to managing players is akin to raising children, maintaining standards with care. While data is significant, the focus is on people and culture as the central aspect of high performance.
00:10:00 - 00:15:00
Brenford's strategy includes innovation and bravery, implementing unique tactics like aggressive game openers. Sustainability and continuing success in the Premier League are priorities, requiring continuous innovation and an optimistic approach, never settling for mere survival.
00:15:00 - 00:20:00
Emphasizing optimism and the belief in potential victories, Brenford seeks to go beyond just surviving in the Premier League. The narrative involves encouraging belief and readiness for every match, regardless of the opponent's strength, and embracing challenges with a positive mindset.
00:20:00 - 00:25:00
The club's emphasis on maintaining a strong performance culture centers around hard work and attitude. Individuals are expected to contribute to the environment, with players and staff encouraged to drive standards and help one another, creating a noteworthy performance dynamic.
00:25:00 - 00:30:00
Cultural architects play a crucial role at Brenford, embodying and spreading the desired behaviors and standards within the club. Trust, support, and proactive problem-solving among players and staff in fostering the right environment are highlighted as critical components.
00:30:00 - 00:35:00
Brenford's recruitment strategy focuses on acquiring players who embody the club's values of hard work and teamwork. Money plays a lesser role compared to culture and people, implying that through unity and effort, the team can surpass others despite budget constraints.
00:35:00 - 00:40:00
Addressing leadership characteristics, the discussion highlights the importance of expertise, leadership, and continuous development. Successful coaches excel in tactical, leadership, and management skills. Discussions and learning from peers are seen as vital for overcoming challenges.
00:40:00 - 00:45:00
The exchange between Premier League managers provides a platform for sharing experiences and challenges. The importance of learning from others, regardless of background or playing history, signifies the continuous journey of improvement and overcoming ego.
00:45:00 - 00:50:00
Brenford's philosophy of high performance is seen as maintaining consistent, long-term performance through optimism, confidence, and continuous effort. Balancing ambition with personal well-being is emphasized, acknowledging the journey's sacrifices and striving for work-life balance.
00:50:00 - 00:55:11
The closing thoughts delve into the necessary attitudes for success: confidence paired with humility, hard work, and the ability to overcome setbacks. Personal growth, belief, and relentless effort are underscored as essential elements of achieving high performance.

Mind Map

Video Q&A

What is the main source of Brenford's success according to the coach?
The main source of Brenford's success is the club's culture, teamwork, and people, not just data analysis.
What role does 'belief' play in Brenford's strategy?
Belief is crucial; the coach emphasizes the importance of believing in the ability to win every game, regardless of the opponent.
How does the coach describe Brenford's use of data?
While Brenford uses data effectively, like other clubs, it is not the primary source of their success. The team is more focused on culture and people.
What strategy does Brenford use to maintain its competitive edge in the Premier League?
Brenford relies on innovation, bravery, and a cohesive culture to compete and succeed in the Premier League.
What advice does the coach give regarding team culture?
He advises building a strong, inclusive culture focused on respect, hard work, and togetherness while empowering cultural architects within the team.
How important is innovation according to the Brenford coach?
Innovation, along with bravery, is critical in staying competitive and achieving goals, highlighted by their unique in-game strategies.

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Subtitles

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00:00:00
the brenford story is remarkable in many
00:00:03
many ways belief is everything I go into
00:00:07
every game but if we can win we need to
00:00:10
believe that we could do well in the
00:00:12
first season of the Premier League we
00:00:13
need to believe that we can go to the
00:00:14
edad and beat City because if you're too
00:00:17
realistic you think we can't win here C
00:00:20
when we beat them last meeting before
00:00:22
the game I said to the players of course
00:00:24
we're going here to try to win because
00:00:26
when we beat them I want to beat them
00:00:28
with all the best players and I think
00:00:29
the thing people we'll talk about often
00:00:30
with brenford is data there's a few
00:00:32
narratives about brenford and yes data
00:00:35
is important but culture beats
00:00:38
everything the myth that brenford is
00:00:40
built on data has just been
00:00:42
busted is there a part of you that would
00:00:45
love to test yourself at the very
00:00:47
highest level in the Champions
00:00:50
League that that that's a good question
00:00:53
this episode is supported by huel so
00:00:56
many people look at Bren from the
00:00:57
outside and seem to have an opinion
00:00:59
about how you've done what you've done
00:01:00
and how you've had the success you've
00:01:01
had what are we not seeing that you see
00:01:04
that you think has really made the
00:01:05
difference here there's a few narratives
00:01:07
about brenford most of them are positive
00:01:10
and there's a lot about the the numbers
00:01:11
games and and and all the the marginal
00:01:14
gains which is also part of it but I
00:01:17
think a
00:01:18
really secret Source
00:01:21
or what you call it is the is the people
00:01:25
um in the club um and we know it's
00:01:27
people that create the culture and the
00:01:30
culture uh you know eat strategy for
00:01:33
breakfast so culture beats
00:01:35
everything um and that culture we have
00:01:39
built together over years is in my
00:01:41
opinion quite um
00:01:44
incredible um we
00:01:47
have a lot of good people staff
00:01:50
directors players U that are working to
00:01:53
say together in the same direction I I
00:01:56
don't think I'm okay I'm okay good at
00:01:58
something but I think what are best is
00:02:00
to have good people around me um and um
00:02:03
then I learn I think I'm okay good to
00:02:05
learn good at learning so um I'm reading
00:02:08
and speaking to people all that so from
00:02:10
the All Blacks I stole that one lineer
00:02:12
no tickets and that's definitely a a big
00:02:15
thing for me uh because it completely
00:02:18
fitted with my way of seeing culture or
00:02:21
top performance culture so I'll go that
00:02:24
far say we have we have no dickets and
00:02:26
to be fair I think it's also very rare
00:02:28
we find people like this I think General
00:02:31
people the core in people are
00:02:34
good if not then you are close to be a
00:02:37
psychopath sorry to say they are good so
00:02:39
if you find them and you reach them and
00:02:42
you you you get to know them most people
00:02:44
are good and if they come into
00:02:46
environment is good A lot of people are
00:02:48
going to be swayed to to that culture
00:02:50
and that
00:02:51
culture um is built on what what I will
00:02:55
call the the path to to success so I
00:02:58
call it like passion attitude
00:03:00
togetherness hard work and we all know
00:03:03
we need passion to achieve our goals or
00:03:07
to maximize performances or
00:03:09
maximize whatever we want to do do or
00:03:12
have in life attitude um is another one
00:03:15
light I sto uh stolen I think is
00:03:17
brilliant is confident but humble so you
00:03:20
need to be confident if you don't
00:03:22
believe in yourself it it's impossible
00:03:24
to achieve anything but on the flip side
00:03:26
if you're not humble you forget uh uh
00:03:30
that you need to put the hard work in
00:03:31
which is the H of course in the end um
00:03:34
and you can only do it together uh with
00:03:36
people because if you want to go quick
00:03:37
go alone if you want to go far go
00:03:39
together so I think that path to success
00:03:43
um is um is a big thing of of why uh
00:03:46
we're good um and I think I would say
00:03:50
that we have a nice um performance
00:03:53
culture so of course when people come
00:03:55
into the club it's very open um which
00:03:59
I'm very pleased with so they feel it
00:04:01
straight away that you know smiling
00:04:03
faces uh everyone says hello um we have
00:04:06
an open canteen but everyone is eating
00:04:08
together um if people want to come in I
00:04:10
always open the training ground of
00:04:12
course there's a little bit limitation
00:04:13
but no secrets uh people can come into
00:04:16
meetings you know all that
00:04:18
[Music]
00:04:20
um um but when we cross the white line
00:04:23
of course we compete and of course the
00:04:26
the think the players think that we are
00:04:29
the referee [ __ ] or other coaches bad
00:04:32
decision whatever it is and there's
00:04:34
brutal tackles but when they walk off
00:04:36
the pitch uh you know there's that
00:04:38
fantastic bond between the players and
00:04:40
and everyone so um I like that phrase a
00:04:43
nice performance um environment and a
00:04:46
lot of other things yeah love it so a
00:04:49
journey starts with the first step so
00:04:51
how do you go about creating this nice
00:04:53
performance culture uh the foundation in
00:04:56
any culture we need to work hard so if
00:04:58
they if they don't
00:05:00
uh work hard and I do
00:05:02
this the way I treat my players or our
00:05:06
players the way we treat each other is
00:05:07
little bit the same like I like I treat
00:05:10
my my children in terms of how you raise
00:05:12
them so of course there need to be um
00:05:14
demands consequence and love um so there
00:05:18
need to be demands in terms of their
00:05:20
hard work and if they don't work hard
00:05:22
enough there will be a consequence
00:05:23
ultimately they will not play and they
00:05:25
would like to play um and then of course
00:05:28
they need to have a lot of love or
00:05:29
believe or carrying and all that um so
00:05:32
you need to have that Foundation of hard
00:05:34
work and put everything into it uh but
00:05:37
the nice I guess it's it's it's how you
00:05:40
are as a person I think
00:05:42
I'm privileged I'm a positive open guy
00:05:45
um and then we have other good people
00:05:48
around me that is also calm um and the
00:05:52
way of course we have the mans and all
00:05:54
that but I think we we do it in
00:05:56
a I don't know if it's the right way but
00:05:58
in um in a a direct but C we and people
00:06:02
love to put managers and football clubs
00:06:04
in a certain category right um and I
00:06:07
think the thing people talk about often
00:06:08
with brenford is data because it's kind
00:06:10
of the story of brenford I wonder though
00:06:12
whether actually you you agree with that
00:06:14
I because I think every football club
00:06:16
now is using so much data I I'd be
00:06:18
amazed if if there are clubs not using a
00:06:21
similar level of data to brenford maybe
00:06:23
some even more you know uh yes we use
00:06:25
data and we are good at using it but
00:06:28
everyone is using it uh to today and uh
00:06:31
I think also it's important to use it in
00:06:33
terms especially I think especially in
00:06:34
the beginning was because how we
00:06:36
recruited players but everyone used that
00:06:40
today still need to use in the right way
00:06:42
to help us
00:06:43
um but this is a high performance uh
00:06:47
podcast and yes data is important but I
00:06:50
think all the all the indicators of high
00:06:54
performance is something about culture
00:06:57
people togetherness teamwork and this
00:07:00
the the the person in the in the middle
00:07:02
and I think actually that's that's the
00:07:05
that's the secret Source we have I think
00:07:08
uh we put the person uh in the middle
00:07:12
and we try to develop uh people
00:07:16
as people or persons uh and players or
00:07:20
or staff members depending on how we do
00:07:22
that I think that's the key thing so to
00:07:23
be crude then what would you allocate if
00:07:26
you had to proportion how much of it of
00:07:28
your success ESS is down to the people
00:07:31
and the culture and how much of it is
00:07:33
down to the data and the analytics 95%
00:07:36
people in culture the myth that brenford
00:07:39
is built on data has just been
00:07:42
busted maybe yeah this podcast is
00:07:45
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00:08:16
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00:08:18
focus on what really matters I actually
00:08:21
think that the what a big element of
00:08:23
your secret source is down to two things
00:08:26
just from this conversation and things
00:08:27
I've read um innovation
00:08:30
and bravery cuz I think you can't be an
00:08:32
innovator unless you're brave right
00:08:34
agree and I look at the things that you
00:08:35
do and the way you do it and a really
00:08:37
good example this season is the sort of
00:08:39
the blitz cre on other teams within the
00:08:41
first minute of the game and you know
00:08:43
three successive games scoring in the
00:08:44
first minute and another game having to
00:08:46
wait until the second minute to get your
00:08:48
first goal I'd love to know the story
00:08:51
behind how something like that happens
00:08:53
because everyone in life is looking for
00:08:55
Innovation right but it's having the
00:08:57
it's having the path it's having the the
00:08:59
system here so that it goes from an idea
00:09:02
to being effective on the football field
00:09:03
so would you mind telling us the story
00:09:05
of how that all came about the the
00:09:07
brenford story
00:09:10
is remarkable in many many ways um and
00:09:13
we're very proud of it and we are I'm
00:09:16
very privileged and humble to be in the
00:09:18
middle of it uh with a lot of good
00:09:20
people around me
00:09:23
um but how can we make it a sustainable
00:09:26
success story so you can sit here in 5
00:09:29
years time
00:09:30
uh and still thinking how can you keep
00:09:33
going uh because that's a real challenge
00:09:35
so all now we've been in my opinion
00:09:37
unbelievable successful um but how can
00:09:41
we keep going that's that's the big
00:09:42
thing for me when I'm when I'm working
00:09:44
every single day how can we keep
00:09:47
developing and keep being a an asset to
00:09:50
the Premier League uh because for us
00:09:53
it's never been about surviving or
00:09:55
staying because also think that is not
00:09:57
Innovative and that is definitely not
00:09:59
break
00:10:00
uh and it's not optimistic I've talked
00:10:02
about before uh so it's always been
00:10:06
about that uh an asset or developing
00:10:09
adding layers um in the Premier League
00:10:12
and I think that's key because it's such
00:10:15
a brutal League it's so so difficult to
00:10:20
compete here we had a good squad
00:10:22
compared to us because we've done some
00:10:24
fantastic
00:10:25
businesses uh in terms of players then
00:10:28
we need to keeping Innovative we keep to
00:10:30
change things um and and I'm a little
00:10:34
bit even we have been success I'm saying
00:10:36
when are we are established Premier
00:10:38
League team I don't know they say we are
00:10:40
now maybe but I don't want to say it
00:10:42
because I'm afraid that we are leaning
00:10:44
back and think oh that's it easy and
00:10:46
then we just know it'll go one way and
00:10:48
there's so many stories about teams that
00:10:52
that got up done fantastic and then uh
00:10:55
got uh relegated like bonley is a club I
00:10:58
admire at lot and we look their way
00:11:00
Bournemouth the same I know they are
00:11:01
back but they had to go down um
00:11:04
Southampton now um Leicester um there's
00:11:08
probably Stoke uh there's a lot of clubs
00:11:11
that you know how can we keep staying
00:11:13
there that's that's the biggest
00:11:15
challenge going forward and we need to
00:11:16
be Innovative a little example of that
00:11:18
is the is the kickoffs we we Tred
00:11:22
to uh try to find areas where we can
00:11:25
find the the smallest gain um and see if
00:11:28
we can we can win something and it's
00:11:31
something we've been working on before
00:11:34
um and of course give credit to Keith
00:11:37
Andrews is his um his ideas but I think
00:11:41
two things one clear strategy of what to
00:11:43
do it we train it um and the mentality
00:11:47
to try at which is linked with the style
00:11:50
of play so when we get up there is not
00:11:52
to okay now we just keep it 20 times 20
00:11:54
pass try to score no no no when we up
00:11:56
there we try to relatively quick if we
00:11:58
can create a breakthrough in these cases
00:12:01
cross has been the most obvious weapon
00:12:04
we've used and then scored um so there's
00:12:07
a lot of things that's been linked there
00:12:10
I think it's and the biggest thing I
00:12:11
think actually is the belief because I
00:12:12
think to say to the your players right
00:12:14
we're going to try and score in the
00:12:15
first minute I think 99% of footballers
00:12:17
would go that's not that's not how the
00:12:19
game works but you're approaching the
00:12:21
first minute like a lot of teams would
00:12:22
approach the final minute if they were a
00:12:24
goal down yeah and if you're going to do
00:12:26
that to score a goal why not do it in in
00:12:28
minute one right I yeah agree I think I
00:12:30
think belief is everything uh linked
00:12:34
again to this optimistic approach we
00:12:36
need to believe that we can score on
00:12:38
minute one we need to believe that we
00:12:40
could do well in the first season of the
00:12:41
Premier League we need to believe that
00:12:43
we can go to the edad and beat City like
00:12:46
really believe um and of course because
00:12:48
they on paper are better than us most of
00:12:50
the time we lose that's just part of it
00:12:54
but if we don't if we lose the belief
00:12:57
you can never win that that that's for
00:12:59
sure um so I I go into every game but if
00:13:03
we can win like literally away it's not
00:13:06
there's not once of said we play for a
00:13:08
point not once we go there to win a wait
00:13:11
to C when we beat them two one up there
00:13:14
um and you need to do a little bit
00:13:16
motivational speech which I'm a little
00:13:18
bit I'm believing in because you say it
00:13:20
every week and you I get tired of
00:13:22
listening to myself so anyway I don't
00:13:24
know how much they chck in last meeting
00:13:27
before the game uh I said to the players
00:13:31
uh of course we're going here to try to
00:13:34
win um it's against the best team uh in
00:13:37
the world uh the best players de bruyne
00:13:42
gundan foden GES that time rodwick all
00:13:45
of them and there's a little bit in
00:13:46
doubt of holand for that game and I
00:13:49
really really hope holand plays because
00:13:51
when we beat them I want to beat them
00:13:53
with all the best players and you said
00:13:55
this to the players I said that to the
00:13:56
players so of course it's a part of that
00:13:58
motiv ation and belief and of course we
00:14:01
we were privileged and and and got
00:14:03
things with us that day and and won the
00:14:05
game that reminds us of when uh James
00:14:08
Milner told us about the Barcelona game
00:14:11
where Liverpool came back from 3-0 down
00:14:13
and he found what was really helpful was
00:14:16
klopp didn't shy away from the problem
00:14:19
he addressed the fact that nobody
00:14:20
believes we can do this these are some
00:14:22
of the greatest players on the planet
00:14:24
and then once he once he'd almost
00:14:26
outlined the obstacle M he gave them the
00:14:29
belief to understand they could overcome
00:14:30
it so how important is it you know when
00:14:33
you're trying to win their hearts as
00:14:35
well as their minds for them to believe
00:14:38
that you can go on how do you deliver a
00:14:40
great team talk that balances realism
00:14:43
with the optimism that you can be
00:14:45
victorious I I I think of course there
00:14:48
need to be a part of a realism in it I
00:14:52
think actually almost need to overdo it
00:14:53
a little bit if I'm honest because if
00:14:56
you're too real realistic about us going
00:14:58
to to the edge
00:15:00
yet you think we can't we can't win here
00:15:03
it's one in 20 times we win here and why
00:15:05
should it be today so so I think you
00:15:07
need to really believe that the next
00:15:10
time is always that time that you will
00:15:12
beat them and if you've done it you need
00:15:14
to believe that you can do it again uh
00:15:17
you you need you need to believe it also
00:15:19
because I think one thing is 100% sure
00:15:23
every footballer or
00:15:25
every head chef every
00:15:29
top podcast host are just human beings
00:15:33
have good days and bad days and in the
00:15:35
middle of a game on the middle of night
00:15:37
you're going to have a a down in your
00:15:39
belief
00:15:41
or physical capacity or whatever it is
00:15:45
and the footballers they know that even
00:15:46
that they played against the best team
00:15:48
in the world with the best manager and
00:15:50
they in the best shape they know they're
00:15:52
also human being so there will be spells
00:15:54
in that game where they will can't
00:15:56
perform or where they lose a little bit
00:15:58
uh believe or most likely they just dip
00:16:01
a little bit in Focus because they're
00:16:03
playing against the opposition against
00:16:05
the team that they need to beat or
00:16:06
should easily beat and and stuff like
00:16:08
that so I think that's a big thing you
00:16:10
can play on as well so how do you
00:16:13
decide what to say to the players to get
00:16:16
them to be what they need to be at the
00:16:17
right time so we're sitting in your
00:16:19
dressing room and up on the wall it says
00:16:21
Brave and aggressive so what was the
00:16:23
what what game was that up for
00:16:26
Bournemouth was that I think yeah
00:16:28
Bournemouth yeah they are very
00:16:30
competitive so it's just ingrained in
00:16:31
them they since they were a kid they
00:16:33
wanted to compete and wanted to win um
00:16:37
and they found out if you play football
00:16:39
you need you need to to have a kind of
00:16:41
uh aggression um in the 50-50 jewels in
00:16:44
in the jewels uh and no one has really
00:16:47
achieved anything if they don't are not
00:16:49
aggressive unless you are the the best
00:16:52
possible football in the world and
00:16:53
there's only a few of them even them are
00:16:55
quite aggressive uh uh and brave is a
00:16:59
little bit linked to the confidence uh
00:17:01
of being confident um if we're not brave
00:17:05
it's you know it's it's it's difficult
00:17:07
to achieve things I think you need to be
00:17:09
brave uh then then there's some that
00:17:11
super confident and super Brave uh um so
00:17:15
so it yeah it's that balance and if
00:17:17
you're brave you're playing forward
00:17:18
you're turning forward you want the ball
00:17:21
uh in football terms uh or you want to
00:17:23
press High um in in those situations and
00:17:26
you're willing to say to take risk and
00:17:28
always say if you don't take risk you
00:17:32
also take risk so you need to say take a
00:17:35
certain amount of risk if you want to
00:17:37
achieve anything zero risk is the same
00:17:40
as you you will Decline and you'll go
00:17:42
backwards I love that CU I think some
00:17:44
people think by taking no risk they live
00:17:46
a risk-free life but of course that's
00:17:47
not the case no no no you need to if
00:17:50
depends on what you want to achieve some
00:17:52
of course is different with people but I
00:17:54
think you need to if you don't put
00:17:56
yourself out there how how do you get
00:17:59
anything it's the same in life if you if
00:18:02
you're going out and you want to meet a
00:18:03
girl you need to take a move it's very
00:18:06
rarely that you can sit in the corner
00:18:07
and they're coming to you uh you know at
00:18:10
least I had to take a move if you're not
00:18:12
uh you need to do something uh in life
00:18:15
so one of the comments you made earlier
00:18:16
Thomas was around doing this through
00:18:18
people and one of the things that often
00:18:20
intrigues us when we look at culture is
00:18:22
a phrase from the Norwegian psychologist
00:18:24
Willie Rao that spoke about having
00:18:26
cultural Architects you need the leaders
00:18:29
without necessarily those titles of
00:18:31
leadership that role model the behaviors
00:18:34
and the standards that you want how do
00:18:36
you go about identifying and then
00:18:38
empowering your cultural Architects to
00:18:40
set the standards
00:18:42
here um I think uh I think a couple of
00:18:47
things I think in general I trust people
00:18:50
the first thing when I meet a person I
00:18:51
trust uh him or her
00:18:55
um and uh until I don't trust a more
00:18:58
more of course but that's that's that's
00:19:00
not that's that's very rare uh that's
00:19:02
going to happen uh because uh normally
00:19:05
people just want to um how can you say
00:19:08
um do their best and uh and they want
00:19:10
trust and if they feel the trust they do
00:19:12
a little bit more um and I see the best
00:19:15
in people as my first instinct of course
00:19:17
I can also see there flaws we all we all
00:19:19
have that um so I think that trust is is
00:19:22
Big um to the players and my staff
00:19:26
because it's not only the players it's
00:19:28
also some of the the staff that need to
00:19:30
uh come with this open minded approach
00:19:33
um demands um all that and they need to
00:19:36
I can't be
00:19:38
around 30 players and 50 staff members
00:19:42
so I need others that is also building
00:19:44
this uh this culture and I agree with
00:19:46
the cultural Architects are very
00:19:48
important I'm privileged I think is one
00:19:50
of the reason why we also are good we
00:19:53
have some some um good characters some
00:19:57
some good actually cultural architects
00:19:59
in the squad and quite a few actually
00:20:02
and I think that's the reason why we
00:20:04
work hard and we are
00:20:05
constantly uh competing in the best
00:20:08
league um um and it's about humans
00:20:14
because money has an impact and of
00:20:18
course we don't we have maybe the third
00:20:20
third lowest budget in in the Premier
00:20:21
League so so we we can't buy all the
00:20:23
best players so we need to buy good
00:20:25
people hardworking people of course
00:20:27
talented people of course very talented
00:20:29
um but if you have the hardworking and
00:20:32
the good people and they're working the
00:20:34
same direction and they want to do a
00:20:35
little bit more than the others and we
00:20:36
have hopefully also a good plan then we
00:20:38
can overachieve and and beat the rest
00:20:42
and I also say to my players that me my
00:20:46
coaching staff and the rest we can push
00:20:48
the culture to or the high performance
00:20:51
culture if you talk about this to 85 90%
00:20:56
I think I can I can I can put the
00:20:58
framework the context all the nice boss
00:21:01
words and I can you're not running
00:21:02
you're not all that but the last 10% the
00:21:05
most crucial 10% it's like you are
00:21:08
beating your running times okay and I
00:21:10
guess you're both good Runners so you're
00:21:11
probably running
00:21:12
around 4:30 a k or 415 okay uh and if
00:21:16
you want to go down to 4 minute perk
00:21:19
last 15 seconds or just like 5 seconds
00:21:22
it's unbelievable hard to get that
00:21:24
demands so hard work I tried to compare
00:21:27
that to the last 10% is in within the
00:21:29
group so I'm I'm saying to the players
00:21:32
the last 10% is in the dressing room
00:21:34
it's on you guys I can't do that that so
00:21:37
can you give us an example then of how
00:21:39
of how you see that demonstrated by your
00:21:42
players yeah but then because I say to
00:21:44
them and of course and I speak to the
00:21:46
five six seven eight players I think got
00:21:49
more in them um so I'm I'm like today I
00:21:53
said to ma Yensen he was driving a
00:21:56
little bit the the small position drill
00:21:59
um and I said after the the drill said
00:22:01
keep doing that uh you doing for a while
00:22:03
it is you who's driving that drill so
00:22:05
he's doing that on the on the pitch of
00:22:08
course I see that um or I'm saying to my
00:22:12
captain or my Captain's group that you
00:22:14
know is in the dressing room you guys
00:22:16
need to boost the rest um in terms of
00:22:19
what kind of Standards we will have or I
00:22:21
got an eye because I know that maybe a
00:22:23
three or four players are dropping or
00:22:25
maybe there's something with them is not
00:22:26
working what is it so so I ask my
00:22:29
players to find out uh not not we're not
00:22:31
talking
00:22:32
about going out or you just can just see
00:22:34
they're not not happy is that is the
00:22:37
family what is it can you get around
00:22:38
them because they have a naturally they
00:22:41
have a better connection with them um be
00:22:43
same
00:22:44
nationality um so that that's how I try
00:22:46
to use the the players and at what point
00:22:49
would you step in there let's say that
00:22:50
your Captain's group comes to you and
00:22:52
says this player has an issue with this
00:22:54
do you then decide there's a moment
00:22:55
where hearing from the manager is what
00:22:57
matters if
00:22:59
yes uh and maybe also I step in before
00:23:02
that and then after I ask the captain's
00:23:04
group to help that they can be both uh
00:23:07
scenarios
00:23:09
um it can be that they maybe can't reach
00:23:12
them or they think it's I think it's a
00:23:14
problem you need to deal with Thomas or
00:23:15
it's a personal thing so probably you
00:23:17
need to have a a chat with him um yeah I
00:23:20
think that's that's those situations so
00:23:22
we've we've got all the shirts around us
00:23:24
here would you mind just picking out
00:23:26
maybe three or four of the names on the
00:23:27
back of these shirts and giving us a
00:23:30
line or two on what that person brings
00:23:32
to brenford that makes them a cultural
00:23:34
architect um of course the natural one
00:23:37
is is the captain Chris chrisan nard I
00:23:40
think he is the he's a very natural
00:23:43
leader um I don't think we have many of
00:23:45
them in football uh in general or don't
00:23:47
have enough um he is the he classic he's
00:23:52
working hard yeah um no problem to uh to
00:23:56
say to the um to the young kid now you
00:24:00
need to step up or to um briano uh there
00:24:04
is the the top dog now you need to work
00:24:06
harder or it's it's a bad pass or
00:24:08
whatever so he is you know it's the same
00:24:10
treats everyone the same and then I
00:24:13
think he got the good emotional
00:24:14
intelligence about how to interact with
00:24:17
the different players I think he he's
00:24:19
one that gives a lot um I think yon wher
00:24:23
um is a is a player
00:24:25
that is is of course very good for us
00:24:28
but he's a player that
00:24:31
[Music]
00:24:32
um you can just see he gets around the
00:24:34
other players so he was running um so
00:24:37
he's taking care of uh yamuk was a young
00:24:40
Ukrainian boy with all he's dealing with
00:24:44
with his parents and everyone in in
00:24:46
Ukraine um so they have created a
00:24:49
relationship and he's T is talking to
00:24:50
him and he's he's speaking to him he's
00:24:52
taking care of him um and wh is all also
00:24:55
the player that is for example in games
00:24:58
or training is also pushing uh and
00:25:00
getting the team um uh in the right
00:25:04
direction uh I would say Vali yal um is
00:25:07
also a player that is around a lot of
00:25:11
players in the squad um high standards
00:25:12
for training
00:25:14
um also emotional intelligent um to um
00:25:18
to push everyone and I think the last
00:25:20
one I could mention a lot a lot more the
00:25:23
last one I think actually mention Ben me
00:25:26
um very experienced player
00:25:28
that um even that he's not playing as
00:25:31
much as he wants to now um is giving a
00:25:33
lot to the group of course I speak to
00:25:35
him and uh talk with him about that is
00:25:40
important the the the the the
00:25:42
conversation he he has with with the
00:25:44
younger players or or with a group uh
00:25:47
means a lot so for example we trained um
00:25:50
defensive set pieces uh before Everton
00:25:53
in the weekend and
00:25:56
um uh and Ben was on the Everton team if
00:26:01
you can say it like that and then he was
00:26:03
speaking to King L Potter that was going
00:26:06
to Mark toosi which is one of the best
00:26:08
uh headers in the league and twice the
00:26:11
size of him um how he should uh Mark him
00:26:16
no no you need to go around this way and
00:26:18
you need to you know use your arms like
00:26:19
this and you need you know take a step
00:26:20
before him and stuff like that so things
00:26:23
as invaluable that is is such a big
00:26:25
thing helping to perform but also for
00:26:27
the culture
00:26:29
and you mentioned the no [ __ ]
00:26:31
policy what is a [ __ ] a [ __ ] is
00:26:34
um what you can say it's difficult to
00:26:36
explain but definitely a person that
00:26:39
don't want to that don't care about his
00:26:43
teammates or staff
00:26:46
members that I think is not respectful
00:26:49
uh in general uh to everyone high and
00:26:52
and Loan treat people the same way I
00:26:54
think that's the most difficult thing
00:26:55
for me if I see especially people that
00:26:58
got more uh money status everything and
00:27:03
they treat people lower than themselves
00:27:05
in a different way I can't stand it um I
00:27:09
I yeah that's very very difficult for me
00:27:11
and I I don't care who it is I'll just
00:27:13
instantly okay lost him uh because I
00:27:17
think that's very important you do that
00:27:19
in life so what was interesting there
00:27:21
was when you talk about someone that
00:27:22
throws their weight around and their
00:27:24
status and you say boom gone M there
00:27:27
will people watching this that operate
00:27:29
in environments where they are the
00:27:30
leader and there are [ __ ] that have
00:27:31
somehow made it into the culture M what
00:27:34
advice have you got for them on how you
00:27:35
can deal with
00:27:36
that I think U the easy ones get rid of
00:27:40
them that's difficult but I also a big
00:27:43
believer that you need to give people uh
00:27:45
chances uh to improve uh and get better
00:27:50
and you
00:27:51
only get the chance to improve and get
00:27:54
better if you if someone Tred to help
00:27:57
you um and that's of course give them
00:28:00
guidelines of this behavior is is not
00:28:03
good the way people sees you is maybe
00:28:07
arrogant or you lose them on the during
00:28:09
the way um all that and give them
00:28:13
examples of of how they act um and then
00:28:17
I think it's important that you act
00:28:18
yourself in in in a good way you need to
00:28:20
lead by example of course the classic
00:28:23
one but you definitely need to approach
00:28:24
them I think that's the bigest thing and
00:28:26
give them a chance to to change it um
00:28:28
and if they can't of course I need to
00:28:30
leave payhawk has changed everything I
00:28:33
can control the company spend in just a
00:28:35
few clicks all our day-to-day tasks are
00:28:38
automated and I have more time to take
00:28:40
part in strategic decision making I mean
00:28:42
too
00:28:45
easy but here's my
00:28:48
secret I miss the old
00:28:51
days collecting receipts
00:28:56
[Music]
00:29:00
worrying when a sales rep leaves with
00:29:02
the company
00:29:03
[Music]
00:29:10
card getting surprised by the cash
00:29:14
flow that's all in the past with payhawk
00:29:21
[Music]
00:29:29
I'd like to talk about other managers
00:29:31
that you share the Premier League with
00:29:33
I'm interested in the biggest lessons
00:29:34
that you've learned from from other
00:29:36
coaches that you've you've spent time
00:29:38
around um I think there's three areas
00:29:42
where they need to score high or any
00:29:43
head coach sorry any head coach in the
00:29:45
world that need to be top they need to
00:29:47
have three areas in my opinion where
00:29:49
they need to score high but I think
00:29:50
number one no no priorities ranking
00:29:53
number one uh they need to be very good
00:29:56
in the specific area they are either
00:30:00
coaching or leading or what it is so
00:30:02
from in my opinion in my case football
00:30:06
um so we need to be good uh in terms
00:30:09
of uh you can see in the team clear
00:30:12
identity you can train it you need to
00:30:15
train it yourself uh coach it in my
00:30:17
opinion
00:30:19
um uh develop it um analyze it uh
00:30:23
constantly improve it um so all the
00:30:26
Tactical bits
00:30:28
how can you train that uh and get a
00:30:30
clear clear identity into your team uh
00:30:33
two leadership and Leadership is of
00:30:35
course many things it's
00:30:37
communication um it's uh it's it's the
00:30:41
strategy it's the plan it's it's how you
00:30:42
communicate it's how you lead other
00:30:45
players or people um and then man
00:30:47
management um the oneto one mainly with
00:30:50
players but these days also staff and
00:30:52
then there is too many people with too
00:30:55
many egos or too bigger egos uh but um
00:30:57
but anyway so these three areas you need
00:30:59
to score high in all three in my opinion
00:31:02
if um if you um if you want to yeah be
00:31:05
top and I was thinking actually maybe
00:31:07
you need to have one more because you
00:31:08
need to keep developing uh being curious
00:31:12
U to to go to the next level um so for a
00:31:16
lot of football managers I mostly looked
00:31:19
at because I don't know exactly the
00:31:21
leadership and the way they communicate
00:31:23
the football so so that's the football
00:31:26
and then there's other leaders where
00:31:28
I've been in in the past was very
00:31:29
interesting in
00:31:31
um er coaching but you know not the
00:31:34
coaching technique of answering asking
00:31:37
questions I used a lot uh in the past to
00:31:39
do that very interested found out it's
00:31:42
very good but it doesn't work too much
00:31:43
in football yeah in some meetings but
00:31:46
there's also the including thing what
00:31:48
I'm left thinking is who in the game and
00:31:51
does this happen even do you pick up the
00:31:53
phone to an say I've got a bit of an
00:31:55
issue here or when you have a glass of
00:31:56
wine after a match with a manager
00:31:58
what sort of things do you discuss and
00:32:00
I'm interested in who who you feel you
00:32:02
really learned something from that made
00:32:04
a difference for you on what it was I I
00:32:07
meet with a few Premier League managers
00:32:09
sometimes where we uh discuss everything
00:32:12
in a closed room uh and everything said
00:32:14
there is is of course kept there sharing
00:32:17
stories and experiences
00:32:19
and yeah challenging even even without
00:32:23
you know betraying their confidences and
00:32:25
sharing what you discussed with current
00:32:27
Premier League managers is there a power
00:32:28
for you in being able to talk about your
00:32:30
challenges and your issues and the
00:32:32
problems and the sort of landscape of
00:32:33
the game yeah I think I think uh when we
00:32:36
definitely because when we when we sit
00:32:38
there we are you know
00:32:41
uh completely naked in a way you know we
00:32:44
we can sit there we can share all our
00:32:46
our thoughts our our struggle we all
00:32:48
struggle at one point um in a job or in
00:32:52
a in in a spell in the season
00:32:55
or had issues was difficult so so um of
00:32:59
course it's classic there's a lot you
00:33:01
know how did you deal with players how
00:33:02
do you deal with the big egos how did
00:33:04
you uh deal with you didn't win five
00:33:06
games game in a row um when you went
00:33:09
into that club what was your learning so
00:33:11
so all those stories are we sharing and
00:33:13
do you mind telling us who because we've
00:33:15
had a few I guess on on high performance
00:33:17
uh yeah we you know we have um met um a
00:33:21
few times with um Roy Hudson very good
00:33:24
David Moyes um Sean dice uh Grandpa at G
00:33:29
sou gate of course um so yeah it's very
00:33:31
good and there's a number of those um
00:33:34
other managers that you've met with that
00:33:36
come from a similar background to you in
00:33:38
terms of not necessarily having a high
00:33:41
level football playing career one of our
00:33:44
favorite quotes is the arigo saki one
00:33:47
that you don't have to have been a horse
00:33:48
to be a
00:33:49
jockey have you ever discussed that idea
00:33:51
of how you how uh how you can command
00:33:55
respect in a football environment having
00:33:56
never been a footballer has that come up
00:33:58
in these meetings um no actually but I
00:34:03
think it's natural in beginning of my
00:34:05
career it was something I was I was
00:34:07
thinking about uh I think it has changed
00:34:11
more these days um I think it's it's it
00:34:14
still means something if you
00:34:16
are um a former player and played at the
00:34:20
highest level uh you you have a natural
00:34:22
respect when you step in because you you
00:34:24
got a name uh and you know oh he was a
00:34:27
good player you know just natural
00:34:28
instant is just uh respect but if they
00:34:32
found out that they you know whatever
00:34:34
I'm not saying they can't but the
00:34:35
leadership or the coaching or whatever
00:34:38
it is is not to a good level then that
00:34:40
will die after weeks or months
00:34:44
um uh and and they got something I never
00:34:47
have you know I've never been out there
00:34:50
uh yeah but on a very very low level
00:34:52
okay uh playing uh the highest level
00:34:55
game if they're very good of
00:34:57
communication that and and use the
00:34:58
experience there is something they will
00:35:00
gain from that um of course I just just
00:35:03
knew that I had to upskill myself in
00:35:06
other areas so others must just that of
00:35:09
course but of course being able to coach
00:35:12
on the pitch is something I've done 10
00:35:15
thousand of hours of um analyzing game
00:35:18
I've seen I don't know how many games so
00:35:20
I hope those two areas are do okay um
00:35:24
and then I think the the leadership and
00:35:26
the man management it's something we all
00:35:28
learn either you
00:35:30
are I don't know say naturally talented
00:35:33
because I don't think maybe you we all
00:35:36
have a potential but maybe you have a
00:35:38
good personality that makes it a little
00:35:40
bit easier but if you don't learn and we
00:35:42
make so many mistakes along the way and
00:35:44
learn from them and get better then then
00:35:45
it doesn't matter so in the beginning of
00:35:47
course it was a little bit a a thought
00:35:51
uh from me but now of course I don't is
00:35:54
is not a problem uh of course I'm uh
00:35:58
doing very well here in brenford and
00:35:59
everyone knows me and I'm uh King of the
00:36:02
castle and blah blah blah of course I'm
00:36:04
not but you know what I mean I'm I'm top
00:36:05
of everything um but if I walk into a
00:36:08
new club I need to perform and prove
00:36:11
myself again but I will never think I
00:36:14
was not a player I'm now need to no no I
00:36:16
just need to know to go in um and and
00:36:19
and trust myself and know what I've done
00:36:21
is good and hopefully I can do it again
00:36:24
what advice could you pass on to anybody
00:36:26
about being willing to stand out and put
00:36:30
themselves out there definitely if you
00:36:32
want
00:36:33
to achieve anything of any Ambitions you
00:36:37
need to be brave enough to stand out
00:36:39
there and be either criticized
00:36:43
or the fear of failure don't fear those
00:36:46
things because if you you don't do take
00:36:50
the step there's no chance you you're
00:36:52
going to to fulfill your dreams or your
00:36:55
Ambitions so I think it's it's very
00:36:57
important to uh yeah to trust yourself
00:37:01
um throughout also in the bad days and
00:37:03
with the setbacks and uh how much impact
00:37:06
do you think a manager can have in in
00:37:07
the very short halftime in a game I mean
00:37:09
I've looked at a few of your games this
00:37:10
season I thought the most fun one from
00:37:13
us from our perspective was your game
00:37:14
against IP switch which was just like
00:37:17
sort of a crazy game of football in
00:37:19
those games where you're really up
00:37:21
against it at halftime how do you think
00:37:23
you can make a real difference to the
00:37:25
second half um I think think you
00:37:29
can but it's not
00:37:31
like at least I'm not good enough to do
00:37:34
that uh maybe the other others are I
00:37:36
don't know I don't think there is a
00:37:39
Formula that you can go in there and
00:37:41
then you can completely change the team
00:37:43
every single halftime but there is times
00:37:46
where you can either do good stops and
00:37:50
that's a feeling that you can't okay
00:37:52
this game no that's a feeling from your
00:37:53
experience what you
00:37:55
see um the mo motivational or the
00:38:00
little go you need to have at them yeah
00:38:03
um so I would say
00:38:05
there some halftime I was thinking okay
00:38:09
there I made the difference but there is
00:38:11
a lot where I hopefully did my job but
00:38:14
it made a big difference would you give
00:38:16
us an example of when you feel like you
00:38:18
really did make a difference um I think
00:38:20
there was toam away uh in our second
00:38:23
season in the Premier League there was a
00:38:24
clear one uh where I remember uh we were
00:38:27
one down and I was angry and irritated
00:38:32
because I felt that we
00:38:35
didn't performed to the level or we
00:38:37
didn't you like believed or we didn't uh
00:38:40
had the the physical presence or went
00:38:42
into the 50/50s and um because normally
00:38:46
I'm calm composed analytic and and try
00:38:49
to have that uh bit and it's difficult
00:38:52
for me to just okay now I need to pull
00:38:54
that uh hair dryer classic focus on
00:38:57
which I'm not that good at uh but I know
00:39:02
I I have enough temper that if they hit
00:39:07
me on the wrong day I will
00:39:09
snap um and um I think that was either
00:39:13
the wrong day or the good day uh because
00:39:15
just felt it so I didn't speak to the
00:39:17
coach just went straight into the to the
00:39:19
players and and you know in terms of and
00:39:21
more there a few things I said okay this
00:39:25
is this me to better account press or
00:39:27
build you know Shar but the most
00:39:29
important is that I can't replicate it
00:39:32
but you know I need to win 50/50s so
00:39:34
need to press and then you know you know
00:39:37
a few players if you I think that was
00:39:40
Vali actually want to show that you
00:39:42
should play that now you need to step up
00:39:43
and win more 50/50s and if you then not
00:39:46
all 10 but one or two or three that I
00:39:48
know uh hopefully can can take it I I
00:39:51
dropped a line to one of your coaches to
00:39:54
inquire about your leadership style and
00:39:56
one of the responses I got back was that
00:40:00
you you're very good at using logic and
00:40:02
strategy and rarely if ever let emotion
00:40:05
affect your decision making is that
00:40:07
conscious um yeah yeah I think so um I I
00:40:12
am a very logical person and I'm also
00:40:15
think I'm very calm I also do my very
00:40:19
best to uh control my temper uh because
00:40:23
I don't I I I don't think is beneficial
00:40:28
I really believe that I really really
00:40:31
believe that the of course you can
00:40:33
perform on fear or or or pressure uh or
00:40:37
what you hold you you need no mainly
00:40:40
fear um of course you can but I don't
00:40:42
think it's sustainable at all so believe
00:40:44
in confidence uh belief uh clear
00:40:48
messages calm massively believe in that
00:40:52
but as a coming back to the the kids uh
00:40:55
raising kids you know demands
00:40:58
consequence and love um and I think
00:41:00
that's that's the big thing so how do
00:41:03
you control your temper then what are
00:41:04
the strates since I was young I think I
00:41:07
guess I've been R relatively aware of I
00:41:09
don't think it helps uh and also if I
00:41:12
lose it it always after I'm thinking
00:41:14
what are you
00:41:15
doing uh and I don't think it really
00:41:17
help now because I know in this world
00:41:20
you also need to show a little bit of a
00:41:23
you need to have some personality and
00:41:25
presence which I don't and again that's
00:41:28
maybe part of you need to have some sort
00:41:29
of presence when you're standing in
00:41:31
front of players
00:41:33
um whatever media what you need to have
00:41:36
something over you um so when I lose it
00:41:39
very few times not lose it but you know
00:41:42
really I think that's important uh I
00:41:44
think it's important to show it so I'm
00:41:46
not I I think it's more good because in
00:41:48
general I think again others must must
00:41:51
adjust that I think I'm a I'm quite a
00:41:53
good guy uh so I think it's good to just
00:41:55
show that side of me a few times I also
00:41:57
think when you don't shout a lot when
00:41:58
you do shout people listen right um look
00:42:01
we're all adults here and we all know
00:42:03
how football works and we all know that
00:42:06
either a team has already come wanting
00:42:07
to hire Thomas Frank and take him from
00:42:09
brenford or one day a team will want to
00:42:11
come and hire you and take you from
00:42:12
brenford and before we started recording
00:42:14
you know we discussed that you were
00:42:15
listening to the Grand Potter episode
00:42:17
and it's a very similar career
00:42:19
trajectory you know it's been a stable
00:42:22
constant Improvement and then he makes
00:42:24
the decision to make a big leap and take
00:42:27
the job at Chelsea and everything
00:42:29
changes one day you will be in that
00:42:31
position if you haven't been already
00:42:33
what are the questions that you would
00:42:34
ask before
00:42:36
joining a new club to make sure that you
00:42:39
can replicate your success here because
00:42:42
we got the impression talking to Graham
00:42:44
that that that was the big learning for
00:42:45
him I think couple of things one again I
00:42:49
said a million times I'm very very very
00:42:52
happy here if I ever should go to
00:42:56
another club
00:42:58
um I think it's
00:43:02
difficult sometimes to be in position to
00:43:04
ask the right questions you definitely
00:43:05
need to do do do dilion yourself um and
00:43:09
isn't it Ferguson who saying and he said
00:43:11
that reminded me this morning when I was
00:43:12
running when you know you one of you
00:43:14
said that that you need to pick your
00:43:16
chairman yeah um that can be difficult
00:43:21
because uh it's not that often that uh
00:43:24
you got the possibility to choose
00:43:25
between three clubs there's maybe two or
00:43:28
three managers in the world that can do
00:43:29
that so more normal uh managers that
00:43:32
grma and I if that club comes that we
00:43:36
think is interesting enough uh then it's
00:43:39
maybe not an option for us to choose the
00:43:41
chairman if we want that challenge if we
00:43:43
want that
00:43:44
challenge uh
00:43:46
but uh I think
00:43:50
it's this is a general thing I will say
00:43:52
now it's not for me I think for any
00:43:55
football
00:43:57
head coach or manager of course the
00:44:01
ownership slash chairman is important I
00:44:04
think the club you're going into can you
00:44:06
instant Improvement is there low hanging
00:44:09
fruits uh or is it uh is it difficult to
00:44:13
to raise the bar uh and is the finances
00:44:17
uh finances Good and four can you get
00:44:20
the players in and out you want to I
00:44:22
think that's the key and again you know
00:44:24
talking as adults understanding the way
00:44:26
the world works you know this isn't you
00:44:28
saying you want to leave brenford let's
00:44:30
be very clear about that but you've
00:44:32
you've had this amazing career of
00:44:34
teaching and then going all the way
00:44:35
through the youth setup in Denmark and
00:44:37
then coming over here being an assistant
00:44:39
becoming the manager I've loved you know
00:44:42
this insight into the culture you've
00:44:43
built and the your constant quest for
00:44:46
information you know you're exploring
00:44:48
all the time the I won't say there must
00:44:51
be I'll ask you is there a part of you
00:44:53
that would love to test yourself at the
00:44:55
very highest level in the Champions
00:44:56
League
00:44:57
I think there's a part of me
00:45:00
that that things that think that one day
00:45:05
maybe maybe I need to try something
00:45:07
different is that a bigger Club
00:45:08
Champions League different challenge I
00:45:10
don't know the flip side of me
00:45:14
thinking because I I I think I'm a
00:45:18
little
00:45:19
bit different I don't know of course I
00:45:23
don't know all my colleagues their
00:45:25
family life and social life but I'm I'm
00:45:27
a very social person and I love that
00:45:30
part of life as well being together with
00:45:32
friends and family and and then being
00:45:35
able to travel and all that and I'm
00:45:38
working working very hard at brenford
00:45:40
but also got
00:45:42
uh uh I'm a club where everything is
00:45:46
working everything are being part of
00:45:48
building is you know all the processes
00:45:50
and then we know last year we I'm not
00:45:52
saying we're fighting relegation it was
00:45:54
not going completely the way we we
00:45:56
thought so okay then then it's a little
00:45:58
bit tougher um but there's a lot of
00:46:00
things in this club where it's easier
00:46:03
natural in if then you're going into
00:46:05
another club where there's just you need
00:46:07
to build the culture you need to build
00:46:09
everything you need to all that so
00:46:11
that's probably the two questions I need
00:46:12
to ask myself and plus brenford maybe
00:46:14
there is extra layers I don't know who
00:46:17
knows what will happen in the future
00:46:18
when we can do even more I think that's
00:46:21
the probably the two questions I'm
00:46:23
asking myself so now I'm just thinking
00:46:25
what is it I want in life uh is that
00:46:27
constant chasing uh which I already do a
00:46:30
little bit with our ambition to want to
00:46:32
do better and better and better that's
00:46:34
yeah so if i' have asked you that 10
00:46:36
years ago do you think the answer would
00:46:38
have been different yeah what would you
00:46:39
have said then I need a big Club I need
00:46:41
to yeah but I but the thing is I always
00:46:44
just thought about the next step yeah I
00:46:46
never 10 years ago I was a Bru I thought
00:46:50
that stage you just ask me there or was
00:46:52
just think okay I need to get this right
00:46:53
because I was there three years and we
00:46:55
did fine but there was a lot of things
00:46:57
we need to do
00:46:59
um but yeah definitely now I'm thinking
00:47:01
H it's it's it's fantastic privilege to
00:47:04
be in football yeah but it's also a
00:47:06
hamster wheel and we've spoken to so
00:47:08
many high performers who are not happy I
00:47:10
think if you can be a high performer and
00:47:12
be happy that is rare Air at that point
00:47:15
yeah it doesn't happen often no and I'm
00:47:17
I'm quite
00:47:19
happy we're about to move on to our
00:47:21
quick far questions to wrap up this
00:47:23
interview one thing that I've been
00:47:24
thinking about sitting here listening is
00:47:26
that you seem so comfortable in your own
00:47:29
skin I wonder whether you've kind of
00:47:31
you've actually reached that moment in
00:47:32
your life where you know you're never
00:47:34
going to know everything but you also
00:47:36
know that the stuff you do know is
00:47:37
pretty valuable and you've seen enough
00:47:39
and heard enough of good and bad things
00:47:41
to realize that there's actually there's
00:47:44
more to life than football M and um and
00:47:47
I just get the sense that you seem
00:47:48
comfortable really comfortable thank you
00:47:52
um I think I am uh I think I think I
00:47:57
think I've been working not no I know
00:48:00
I've probably working 60 70 hours since
00:48:01
I was 20 years old not not with the
00:48:05
ambition to be a premier league head
00:48:06
coach one day that's um little bit of
00:48:09
coincidence hopefully hard work
00:48:10
hopefully some skillful so hopefully
00:48:11
good people help me along the way
00:48:15
um and you know just small aims goals
00:48:18
and now I'm privileged to sit here but I
00:48:23
always try to get the balance okay right
00:48:26
with family family and friends and I
00:48:28
always knew that that
00:48:30
was probably more important to me and of
00:48:33
course this stages in your career of
00:48:35
course when I was in
00:48:37
brur uh I walked out myself after three
00:48:40
years I probably knew there was probably
00:48:42
not that good to be sacked after two
00:48:43
years of course here didn't want to be
00:48:45
sacked but now no matter if I go no
00:48:49
matter where I go in the future or if I
00:48:50
stay in in brenford I'll never be afraid
00:48:53
of getting sacked never never ever ever
00:48:55
and I could just go home to be a teacher
00:48:57
in Denmark I know I will miss the
00:48:59
football a bit don't get me wrong I'll
00:49:01
still my ego will be hurt and all that
00:49:03
but the biggest thing in life no it's
00:49:05
much more important family and um and
00:49:08
friends love that ready for some quick
00:49:11
far questions yes the first one is the
00:49:13
three non-negotiable behaviors that you
00:49:16
think are most important for you and the
00:49:18
people around
00:49:20
you uh hard work
00:49:24
respect Beyond Time very good what
00:49:27
advice would you give to a teenage
00:49:28
Thomas just starting um even even that
00:49:33
as say I'm comfortable still that belief
00:49:36
I think everything will be be fine um if
00:49:41
you
00:49:43
keep it's it's funny because when I try
00:49:45
to look back at my life I'm
00:49:49
thinking it seems like just one thing
00:49:51
took the other of course there was a lot
00:49:53
of sit packs um definitely believe in
00:49:57
yourself
00:49:58
and I am a optimistic guy and maybe used
00:50:03
it even more when I was younger um and
00:50:06
of course through hard work that will
00:50:08
that will come
00:50:09
opportunities what does high performance
00:50:12
look like to
00:50:14
you uh high performance is for me the
00:50:21
ability to
00:50:23
perform at a high level
00:50:26
over long long periods of spells I don't
00:50:29
know years more than you know 10 years
00:50:33
more more than that um and performance
00:50:37
there is high performance is that you
00:50:39
are
00:50:42
probably not only achieving because in
00:50:45
football we can only be you know for
00:50:47
example uh some
00:50:50
teams C have done fantastic but there
00:50:52
are also some teams that haven't won
00:50:53
enough because it was inside the post
00:50:56
outside the post so is that that
00:50:57
consistent performance over time of
00:50:59
course uh but where you
00:51:01
are um how can you say performing to a
00:51:05
higher level than you thought was
00:51:06
possible either as a person or a team
00:51:09
and if you want to have that
00:51:12
opportunity to perform over time high
00:51:15
perform over time you need
00:51:18
attitude where you're confident but
00:51:20
humble you need to be confident and
00:51:23
believe in yourself and your ideas and
00:51:24
your dream and all that but humble
00:51:28
enough to do the hard work and to have
00:51:31
the discipline to do the hard work
00:51:32
what's your biggest strength and your
00:51:34
greatest weakness I think my biggest
00:51:37
strength is I
00:51:40
am
00:51:41
positive
00:51:43
energetic
00:51:45
open that's also the weakness because
00:51:48
it's often that the strength is the
00:51:50
weakness
00:51:52
so I don't know if you can be too
00:51:54
optimistic but I think because I believe
00:51:57
so much in the guys and the team so we
00:52:01
go to anfield I believe we can win there
00:52:03
and I get so not frustrated but down if
00:52:05
we lose even that I know the chances for
00:52:09
losing is Big so that's a downside to it
00:52:13
and me having
00:52:16
energy and in that also another thing
00:52:19
being um a strength is that I want to do
00:52:21
everything which is good that's because
00:52:24
that's give me ability or whatever or
00:52:26
determination to achieve
00:52:28
something also learned that I can't do
00:52:31
everything all the time I need breaks I
00:52:34
need to rest uh uh with with yeah with
00:52:38
um with everything yeah what's the
00:52:41
hidden cost of your journey to high
00:52:43
performance I think what they don't see
00:52:44
for me um I think
00:52:48
it's in that Journey there's a lot of
00:52:50
things you need to say no to so that's
00:52:52
that's you know uh family birthdays uh
00:52:55
kids birthday
00:52:57
uh seeing friends
00:52:59
uh going out uh holidays um all that I
00:53:04
think that's the the biggest cost I
00:53:07
would say
00:53:10
[Music]
00:53:11
um and then in football I think it's
00:53:14
brutal because they it's
00:53:16
uh 10% joy and 90% suffering so uh I
00:53:21
think that must be the the hidden cost
00:53:23
as well the final question for people
00:53:26
who are listening to this and people
00:53:27
often listen to this as listeners like
00:53:30
you are they're on their own Journey
00:53:31
their own search for high performance
00:53:33
what would you say to them is a golden
00:53:35
rule for for living a high performance
00:53:37
life your final message I guess to
00:53:39
people who've listened to this
00:53:40
[Music]
00:53:41
conversation then don't just say that
00:53:44
that that that attitude where you are
00:53:46
confident but humble yeah because if
00:53:48
you're confident that's where you
00:53:49
believe in yourself and you need to
00:53:51
believe in yourself you don't believe in
00:53:52
yourself you can achieve nothing nothing
00:53:54
nothing uh and doesn't matter what
00:53:56
people says to you keep believing
00:53:57
yourself of course learn uh and and
00:54:00
learn from your mistakes and don't make
00:54:03
a lots of mistakes but not the same
00:54:04
twice and all that I think so confident
00:54:06
and then humble enough to to put that
00:54:09
hard work in because it's it's
00:54:10
Relentless um out there but also quite
00:54:13
fun brilliant Thomas thank you so much
00:54:16
welcome thank you lovely appreciate
00:54:18
thank
00:54:22
you I don't think you can be high
00:54:24
performance by yourself I don't think it
00:54:25
exists
00:54:26
[Music]
00:54:46
I'm interested in what kind of lessons
00:54:48
you could pass on to our listeners that
00:54:50
is the most interesting question I've
00:54:52
ever been asked in my life
00:54:54
[Music]
00:55:00
this is high performance available to
00:55:03
you your people and your business right
00:55:06
now