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foreign
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[Music]
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my name is Paul Megan shiblow I'm a PhD
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graduate in educational studies at
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McGill University and social media
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subcommittee leader for the Triple Al
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graduate student council it is a
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pleasure and a delight today to welcome
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you all to the first of our 2022 2023
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aael graduate student council YouTube
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speaker series and today it is a
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pleasure to welcome Dr Suresh kanagaraja
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here today and I'll just introduce a
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little bit more about Dr kanagaraja Dr
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kanagaraja is a Sri Lankan Tamil scholar
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in the fields of social Linguistics
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literacy and English language teaching
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he is currently the Edwin Earl Sparks
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professor of Applied Linguistics English
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and Asian studies at Pennsylvania State
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University he is best known for
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introducing orientations to language and
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education from traditions and practices
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in a global South to diversify dominant
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norms and policies in higher education
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and Academia he has played a leading
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role in empirically studying theorizing
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and defining the notion of trans-lingual
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practice which looks at a way of
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introducing communication as exceeding
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bounded languages and involving a
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negotiation of diverse semiotic
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repertoires including words multimodal
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resources objects and artifacts and
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material structures he treats this
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ecological ethical and inclusive
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orientation to speaking and writing as
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part of his South Asian Heritage and
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ancient practices in the global South
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which were later suppressed by European
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colonization
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so a warm very warm welcome to you Dr
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Kenna garage and we really appreciate
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you taking the time to speak with us
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today so I I thank you and and express
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my gratitude to you on behalf of the
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triple El graduate students and yes we
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so we have some questions here yeah no
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it's a pleasure uh talking to all of you
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to you individually uh and also the rest
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of the graduate student community
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yeah amazing and thank you so much and
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we did have some questions that the
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steering committee
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um and subcommittee members we put
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together so we have six questions
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um and please feel free to elaborate as
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much as you would like so this video
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will probably be around about seven to
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ten minutes long and the topic is
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multilingualism from the global South so
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my first question Dr kanagaraja
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um I'll just bring them up for you
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um is what is language for you and what
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does it mean to language
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right uh so I'm glad that the second
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part of the question you made made it a
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verb because uh what does it mean to
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language because that's the uh
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definition that I find uh difficult
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sometimes to communicate to my students
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and colleagues in the uh United States
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so I do think of language as an activity
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uh it's a way of doing communication and
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when I say that
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um I also mean that it's a way of
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looking at communication as Beyond just
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the grammatical structure or the static
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language system
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but it is something more uh dynamic in
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the sense that
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um uh in communication we draw from a
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lot of different uh semiotic resources
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uh it could be multiple languages it
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could be a lot of
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embodied resources like uh
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our skin color
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appearance are dressed and a lot of
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resources in our environment you know
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the fact that we are speaking by Zoom uh
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shapes our communication in a lot of
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ways that the way the things we can talk
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about and the things we can demonstrate
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so uh languages and activity enables me
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to include all of them but I think the
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focus for me because language is an
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activity is always practices strategies
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of communicating uh how do I respond uh
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to a interlocutor how do I uh construct
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my thoughts in an article with the
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knowledge that somebody else is going to
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be interacting with me from the other
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side as a reader and also this text is
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going to be moving uh you know across a
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lot of different lands and historical
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periods so that again
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um the the fact that to language is to
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adopt to particular strategies I find it
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difficult sometimes to communicate in
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the United States because everything I
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do eventually people turn it into an
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abstract grammatical system so to be uh
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to illustrate when we talk about trans
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languaging or translingual practice I
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actually gave the word translingual
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practice uh for my book because I want
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to emphasize that but I still find a lot
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of people thinking about it as a norm a
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grammatical system a type of language so
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I'm kind of asking a lot of people to
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move Beyond thinking about it as a
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system but it's a practice it's an
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activity it's about how do you do
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language
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um yes fantastic thank you for that Dr
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Kennedy and I completely agree and I
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like the way you stress the practice
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element the embodied part of
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communication and it's not just about a
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system I really appreciate that and you
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give a great examples there
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um of what that means for you and I I
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really like that notion and idea of
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translingual practice thank you
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um our next question
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um it's a little bit longer I would I
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would say than the first one do you
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think there should be Kairos for Trans
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languaging practices for instance a
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particular moment in a particular
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rhetorical situation where trans
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languaging is necessary and productive
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and appropriate if yes could you give us
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some examples of such chirotic moments
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if not why
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right that's a great question I I've
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never encountered applied linguists
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posting a question like that because a
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lot of people in a lot of my Allied
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field The English Department uh
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especially in rhetoric and composition
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uh use the word Kairos uh a lot but I
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haven't seen a lot of Applied linguists
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uh using it so I totally agree uh uh any
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communicative strategy or practice is
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chirotic because uh it's about what is
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relevant what is strategic uh for my
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interests for my identity at any given
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moment but I would also uh include the
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space as well not only time but on in
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what context uh meaning both space and
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time
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um you know so for example when am I
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saying something and also where am I
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saying it so uh you know I go back to uh
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I'll give you a couple of examples uh
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from my writing life but I like to just
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quickly also acknowledge
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um how homi Baba's hybridity is
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sometimes misunderstood people again
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make hybridity into a thing a a product
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you know it's a it's an identity it's
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you know look I have a hybrid identity
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but when he takes pains to argue that
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it's actually a strategy and a strategy
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in a particular given moment or time a
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strategy where the speaker or
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Communicator wants to have an advantage
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yeah or you know have to have wants to
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have an edge in the communication that
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is when maybe in a context when there is
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English only as the dominant Norm I uh
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bring some words from Tamil or some
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words from Hindi uh to gain some
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leverage in the communication and um uh
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bring uh kind of disturb uh the dominant
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ideology and also introduce a side of me
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uh that might be important for the
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communication so uh uh that is another
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example or another scholar who thinks
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about hybridity which is related to a
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lot of people think about it in in
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relation to France languaging uh about
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about both of them I have something
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about the moment so let me just
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illustrate that
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um uh when I started writing uh academic
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uh Publications
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um I was a little cautious it's a kind
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of a humbling experience how basically
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this example of how have been
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progressing in my uh radicalism in
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discourse over time partly because it
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was it had to be chirotic it had to be
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shaped by where I am writing when I'm
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writing so when I came originally to the
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United States around the 19 uh mid 1990s
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early 1990s
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um there was a very little conversation
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about uh
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disturbing the English monolingual Norm
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uh you know Pinnacles uh uh let me see
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uh Philipson's uh linguistic imperialism
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uh had just come in the late 80s I don't
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know I think it's even 1990 his his
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book was 1990. so it was just around
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that time
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and I'm here in 1993-94 and then my
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identity I'm from Sri Lanka so if I do
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anything unusual people are going to say
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this guy doesn't know the academic Norms
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especially in
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Anonymous publishing peer reviewing you
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know they don't know where this is
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coming from uh and uh they're going to
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assume that I just don't know how to
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write so I was very cautious and the
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only thing I did at that time was to
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bring a different discourse you know so
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I wasn't messing around with the grammar
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you know trying to bring SRI lankanisms
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or even use our first language Channel
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but uh bringing more narrative personal
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writing into the more impersonal genre
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But as time went on partly because maybe
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we uh started a process of uh opening up
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uh the dominant discourse for other
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voices now I am able to use
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camel words you know written in the
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Tamil script in some of my academic
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Publications uh these are you know
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enough enough Clues uh signals for
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readers to understand what's going on uh
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so the writing um uh has now kind of
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evolved uh in time to doing more uh uh
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bold risky uh things so it's it's a kind
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of a issue of time I would say even
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within the text sometimes we need to
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choose where to bring our voices and
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ideologies in our own way so I recently
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published a book
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um
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transnational literacy or translingual
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literacy uh uh in transnational life and
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uh uh I'm embarrassed I'm mistating the
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title but what I did was I start with
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certain cautious moves like using Tamil
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with a little bit of with almost
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immediate translation but once the
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readers are used to what's going on and
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figure out there's there's a strategy
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here and I become more gold so the Final
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Chapter I just have a whole chapter
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title in Tamil without any translation
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and then they have to read through for a
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couple of paragraphs in to figure out
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what's going on so even within the text
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sometimes there are chirotic moments in
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the sense of figuring out what is going
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to be strategic uh disturbing uh but
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also creative uh in different times so I
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totally believe this is actually a good
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question because a lot of people ask
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um people not just me but any scholar
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uh Progressive scholar and ask okay if
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you believe that academic language is so
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monolithic and uh
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uh privileged and ideological why are
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you not resisting it why are you using
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accuracy in English so I think the
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answer is there's a time and space for
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what we do you know and uh I think the
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other thing is
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um
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it's you cannot speak without voice so I
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also believe that everything we do has
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uh is translingual and past voice except
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that it's hard to uh detect them because
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they are very subtle you know they are
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it's uh it might be very modest uh but
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we cannot expect everybody to do
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everything we want in every
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communicative act so uh so I think in in
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uh on different in defense uh
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Progressive Scholars we are to say
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they're also choosing uh where to bring
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out their uh alternative discourses and
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alternative styles of writing uh
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depending on the context
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wonderful thank you
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um Dr Kennedy there's some excellent
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examples there of how we can disturb
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um those monolingual norms and
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hegemonies and drawing on
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um trans-lingual practices like you have
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just given in I love the way you talked
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about um bringing in Sri Lankan and
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Tamil in the book example where the
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Final Chapter was uh written in Tamil
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but based on how you know you had kind
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of structured and written it so I love
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that and I like the way you kind of call
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for those periodic moments of strategic
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disturbing and creative and
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um that everyone has a voice and all of
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those translobinal moments so thank you
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very much for enjoying our attention to
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that
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um and those communicative strategies
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that you mentioned so thank you
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um our next question
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um how could trans lingualism and trans
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languaging be helpful in promoting
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linguistic Equity from multilingual
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learners
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right uh yeah that's a important
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question it has become uh more uh
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important now in the context of
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um anti-racist struggles uh diversity
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issues
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um in your question uh did you uh mean
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translingual writers or just I'm sorry
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multilingual writers or
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regardless of writing or speaking
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everything Montreal subjects I think
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that the question that was posed was
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multilingual Learners so it wasn't
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specific no no yes yeah yeah that's
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great you know I just want to see that
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I'm inclusive in the sense of the
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particular practice you're talking about
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so
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um
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foreign
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practice can be empowering but and to
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begin with even
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disturbing predominant ideologies and
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make a space for uh different languages
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different voices so at the most micro
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level I actually love saying that
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English is a translingual language or
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English is a creole language it would
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make it worse
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unceremonious to talk about English and
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it's just a fact you know that English
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has absorbed uh words from so many
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languages structures from so many
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languages over time and the idea that
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English is a separate language it has
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that it has its own system it's a pure
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language
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is a is an ideological construct you
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know it's a thing that native speakers
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believe and sometimes we all believe
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because we are made to accept that point
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of view so uh at the very base uh basic
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I try to make students aware that all
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languages uh if we think of them as an
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activity involve multiple resources and
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what is kind of disturbing for them is
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to be is to learn that what we consider
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language itself has many resources from
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so many different languages so many
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other backgrounds and we shouldn't be
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afraid of diversity or I would also
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maybe add to that by saying I I tell a
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lot of my students diversity is the norm
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homogeneity or Purity is the construct
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it's it's artificial of course we know
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it's a fact of life uh you will get uh
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punished for you know uh deviating from
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norms and we respect that and we need to
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be strategic but at the very base uh you
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know if we get a chance to
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use some big words we can say
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ontologically you know what's real
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what's out there or a set of resources a
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lot of semiotic resources out there and
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it's over time historically social
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social uh sociologically politically
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that certain resources get uh uh
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sedimented and formulated codified into
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something called the standard and angry
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so uh for a lot of students it's kind of
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unnerving to learn it in the beginning
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to see that even our languages you know
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what we consider as first language is
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made up of so many uh different
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resources uh but then uh to make them
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comfortable uh about uh bringing their
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languages when we learn English uh is
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the second uh uh strategy I adopt uh
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that is to say uh
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we have this conversation all the time
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about uh you know the traditional
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understanding that L1 uh will uh distort
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L2 learning right so I tell them no no
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you don't need to be afraid of that uh
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languages go together they help each
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other they become uh part of the
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communicative activity uh so uh um to
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bring uh their own languages into the
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classroom uh is something that I uh
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encourage and then uh
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the the big uh question of course is how
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to be strategic in bringing our
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languages into the uh uh conversation or
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into writing especially in spaces that
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are defined as English only uh so uh so
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I'll conclude with a kind of a question
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that always comes up when I teach
00:19:26
writing you know I was teaching writing
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in City City University of New York
00:19:31
before I came here and why that context
00:19:34
is special is they have a 50-minute
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writing test at the very end of the
00:19:39
first year learning of uh writing and uh
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it's a unknown topic and you just come
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to the room uh sit and write this essay
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as soon as it is given to you so uh it's
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still there I think that's the way they
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assess writing so students always come
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and tell me what's the point of doing
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all these things you are doing in the
00:20:01
classroom like bringing all the other
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languages being creative being critical
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reading so many multilingual authors uh
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exploring different creative genres so
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I kind of uh figured out over time
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initially it was of course a little uh
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you know it was a disturbing question
00:20:22
because they said I just want to pass
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this test yeah you know you write five
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paragraphs in standard English so I've
00:20:30
already told him is okay you know that
00:20:32
is one genre of writing it's it's a
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genre that you never use outside this
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particular institutional context because
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in real life nobody asks you to sit for
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50 minutes and gives you a topic and say
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right or you're punished so and also the
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genre even in the police station if they
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make you sit and write a confession it's
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going to be a different genre so what I
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told him at the same time is
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um all good writers can uh change their
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strategy writing strategy to different
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genres and if you uh kind of play around
00:21:09
with these other languages other genres
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it doesn't take away your sensitivity to
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this normative context uh these you know
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prescribed genres like tests it actually
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makes you even more
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you know it is a simple example of how
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we uh learn through contrasts you know
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you know I tell my students I'm still
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learning English because I actively use
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channel uh in my family I always ask
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myself okay in Tamil we say like this
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why is it that they say like this in
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English you know there seems to be
00:21:46
something uh unusual here so I'm always
00:21:50
thinking critically and I'm reflexive
00:21:53
about my language use because I'm moving
00:21:56
between different genres and different
00:21:58
languages so that would be a way to uh
00:22:02
help students understand that moving
00:22:05
between their languages uh bringing
00:22:07
their languages and uh cultures as
00:22:10
resources it's not disabling uh to uh be
00:22:14
successful in mainstream communication
00:22:17
or life in the main dominant
00:22:20
institutions
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um of course you don't necessarily have
00:22:24
to to
00:22:26
subscribe to everything that the
00:22:29
dominant ideology says so for example
00:22:31
you know even in order to pass the test
00:22:33
I would say
00:22:34
bringing a little bit of extra can
00:22:37
actually help here but you know with the
00:22:39
full awareness of what these guys want
00:22:40
from here uh but you know you know
00:22:43
actually it's really true that if you
00:22:45
write a stereotypical Essay with just uh
00:22:49
Standard English and just the thesis
00:22:51
statement and traffic sentence nobody's
00:22:53
going to be happy with that either they
00:22:55
would say this is a very mechanical
00:22:56
writing so there's a kind of a fine line
00:22:59
between knowing the Norms but also
00:23:02
bringing something extra so I think
00:23:04
translingual practice can help students
00:23:06
do that
00:23:08
yes thank you very much so um excellent
00:23:11
examples there again and and how you
00:23:14
express how how do we be strategic about
00:23:16
this and you give some great examples of
00:23:18
English itself
00:23:21
um absorbing from so many other
00:23:22
languages it's not it's just it's not a
00:23:24
quote-unquote pure language as you
00:23:26
correctly point out so even demystifying
00:23:29
that process for students can be in a
00:23:31
sense enable more Equitable practice
00:23:34
because like you pointed out you're
00:23:36
encouraging them to bring in their own
00:23:38
resources into and their own languages
00:23:40
into the classroom and at the same time
00:23:43
that critical awareness and being
00:23:46
strategic about well this is what's
00:23:47
required for the the exam or test or
00:23:50
whatever it may be but it's not
00:23:52
necessarily representative of reality
00:23:55
let's say and to encourage that process
00:23:57
of this is what they want but you can
00:24:00
and I like the way you said bringing
00:24:02
that extra there and translingual
00:24:03
practice can do that and that's how you
00:24:05
give great examples of that so thank you
00:24:08
um not for those wonderful examples
00:24:11
so the next question we have
00:24:13
um it kind of It kind of follows on I
00:24:16
guess because we've been talking about
00:24:18
writing uh practices
00:24:20
um a little bit as well the next
00:24:22
question is do you think writing
00:24:24
knowledge can be carried over from one
00:24:27
language system to another language
00:24:29
system if yes what could be some
00:24:33
suggested approaches to studying this
00:24:36
phenomenon of transfer
00:24:38
yeah great great question yeah that
00:24:40
comes up all the time
00:24:42
um and I teach and report from my
00:24:45
teaching because sometimes I use
00:24:47
literacy narratives as a genre I love
00:24:50
the genre because it's uh personal to
00:24:52
some degree where students talk about
00:24:54
how did I evolve as a multilingual and
00:24:57
multiliterate uh person but I say right
00:25:01
they also reflect on their trajectories
00:25:05
and even also the conflicts that they
00:25:07
have faced in their life being
00:25:09
multilingual uh actually one of my
00:25:11
colleagues um uh Kevin Johnson who is a
00:25:15
expert was uh well-known expert on
00:25:18
teacher development use this narrative
00:25:20
uh as a reflective learning process for
00:25:24
teachers so it has nothing to do with
00:25:25
length you know with people like me in
00:25:28
rhetoric and composition or teaching or
00:25:30
writing but she finds value in that
00:25:32
genre so uh it's a kind of a preface to
00:25:36
say uh that what we carry over as a
00:25:39
genre I'm sorry as
00:25:43
writing skills or writing Norms
00:25:47
is something different from just grammar
00:25:51
or structures because that's where the
00:25:53
problem comes people ask me if you're
00:25:57
writing a narrative in the classroom
00:25:58
it's not relevant to the other genres
00:26:01
people do you know and leave it on the
00:26:04
English class it's uh you know if you
00:26:06
take physics or geography there are
00:26:09
genres are different so I would start
00:26:11
from the basic assumption that no genre
00:26:16
can be carried over in URLs even the
00:26:19
writing we do in a classroom will change
00:26:22
uh say for example in the basic English
00:26:26
writing class that you teach will have a
00:26:30
different mix of ecological conditions
00:26:34
you know different students different
00:26:36
readings different instruments practice
00:26:39
you know you and myself even our
00:26:41
identities are different so they might
00:26:43
position themselves the students to you
00:26:46
in one way and then to me in a different
00:26:49
way so even within basic writing you
00:26:51
can't uh carry over or transfer uh the
00:26:55
skills of
00:26:57
um uh grammars uh or structures uh from
00:27:03
one class to the other you know I'm
00:27:04
basically saying that uh it's almost
00:27:07
like heracliti said you can't uh enter
00:27:09
into the step into the same river twice
00:27:11
there's no rhetorical situation that's
00:27:14
the same either because the audience is
00:27:17
different the the resources are
00:27:19
different
00:27:20
um identities in different time in space
00:27:22
coming back to the thyroid uh are
00:27:25
changing uh all of us so but what I
00:27:28
teach is dispositions and practices
00:27:32
because so what I uh tell students is
00:27:36
this genre you're not going to carry
00:27:37
anywhere in anywhere else but the way we
00:27:40
negotiate this genre for voice is
00:27:43
developing a new uh certain attitudes
00:27:46
certain dispositions or like but you
00:27:49
might say habitus that can help you to
00:27:52
uh navigate other rhetorical and writing
00:27:56
challenges uh when you are in your in a
00:27:59
different context a different instructor
00:28:00
a different subject these dispersions
00:28:04
are things that would
00:28:06
um come into play in order to negotiate
00:28:09
that particular situation along the same
00:28:11
lines
00:28:12
strategies you know uh we were talking
00:28:15
earlier about
00:28:16
my cryotic strategies of writing you
00:28:19
know when I was a novice scholar I
00:28:22
adopted certain strategies now that I'm
00:28:24
a senior scholar I'm a little bold and
00:28:26
risk-taking uh so those strategies can
00:28:30
also help uh the only big question is a
00:28:33
lot of people say okay so what are the
00:28:35
uh dispositions what are the strategies
00:28:37
and what I'll tell them is we need to
00:28:40
learn more of them because all these
00:28:43
years we've been asking the wrong
00:28:44
questions we've been looking at what's
00:28:46
the grammar I should teach what is the
00:28:49
writing structure I should I should
00:28:51
teach and we've expended so much money
00:28:53
so much time in figuring out these
00:28:57
Norms uh in in a very product oriented
00:29:00
way you know uh the Norms of writing the
00:29:04
Norms of speaking but we haven't been
00:29:06
asking this other question what
00:29:08
dispositions are developing in a
00:29:11
Learners and what are maybe strategic
00:29:15
resourceful dispersion chance that can
00:29:18
help people as they move from one
00:29:19
context to another so I like to think of
00:29:22
transfer as not genres uh structures
00:29:26
grammatical Norms but dispositions which
00:29:29
would carry you through into you know
00:29:32
that another reason why we need to think
00:29:34
like that is
00:29:36
a communicative practices communicative
00:29:39
genres are changing very dramatically
00:29:42
all the time in the context of
00:29:44
globalization digital media there are
00:29:47
new genres that nobody can teach any of
00:29:49
us because like yesterday you know
00:29:52
University we had a workshop for our
00:29:54
graduate students on how to write a Dei
00:29:56
statement and how to write a teaching
00:29:58
philosophy because they are applying for
00:30:01
jobs a lot of you are probably doing as
00:30:03
graduate students and what we found was
00:30:05
as faculty members we are unable to help
00:30:08
our students because we didn't do them
00:30:10
when we were applying for jobs it's a
00:30:13
new requirement so what we thought was
00:30:15
it's hard for us to uh help our students
00:30:18
meaningfully so let's have a workshop
00:30:20
and get an Institute in our University
00:30:23
which deals with questions like that so
00:30:26
here again
00:30:27
these are new genres all the time uh
00:30:30
that we can't teach but the dispositions
00:30:33
might create you know attitudes like uh
00:30:36
uh
00:30:37
uh observing things carefully being
00:30:39
strategic uh knowing the Norms but also
00:30:42
bringing your voice uh being mindful of
00:30:46
the audience and the context and the
00:30:48
chirotic moment just as you are also
00:30:51
concerned about your voice so those are
00:30:53
kind of dispositions that can carry over
00:30:55
for a longer time
00:30:58
yes wonderful thank you so much I love
00:31:01
that and those examples I think it's
00:31:04
great that you're stressed
00:31:06
um the this kind of fluidity and
00:31:09
dynamism that exists and there's always
00:31:12
new genres coming up and the the great
00:31:15
example you gave of the teaching
00:31:16
philosophy and the EDI and I'm sure many
00:31:18
uh viewers graduate students are
00:31:21
familiar with these as well
00:31:23
um and I think that's a good thing to
00:31:25
remember and I love the the notion and
00:31:28
the concept of dispositions as opposed
00:31:30
to focusing too much on structures or
00:31:33
grammatical systems let's say but
00:31:36
looking look focusing more on
00:31:38
dispositions or when you were talking
00:31:40
what came to me was having a toolkit or
00:31:42
becoming more able to adapt and being
00:31:46
encouraging that flexibility to adapt to
00:31:49
the fluidity of transnational context of
00:31:52
globalization and all of these things so
00:31:55
I think that that's wonderful and so
00:31:57
much great great many great things that
00:31:59
you've identified they're an excellent
00:32:01
examples thank you our next question Dr
00:32:05
kanagaraja and I think we have two more
00:32:08
questions for you so thank you again for
00:32:10
your time the next question is what
00:32:13
recommendations do you have and this
00:32:15
might tie into your other suggestions
00:32:18
that you've given what recommendations
00:32:20
do you have for implementing Trans
00:32:23
languaging in multilingual writing
00:32:25
classes
00:32:27
yeah I guess some of them came up in my
00:32:31
examples from classroom so in order to
00:32:33
kind of pull them all together as a kind
00:32:35
of a
00:32:37
um as a way to remind what underlies all
00:32:42
these things I would say three words for
00:32:45
me teaching is ecological meaning that I
00:32:49
don't restrict my teaching to just my
00:32:52
syllabus the reading that I give them or
00:32:54
me as a teacher but I say the classroom
00:32:57
and things beyond the classroom have a
00:32:59
lot of resources so it's a it's a
00:33:01
question of how do you provide the space
00:33:04
for learning which is open or even
00:33:07
better invites all these different
00:33:10
resources there so I I remind students
00:33:13
that you know or and also give them
00:33:15
activities which encourage them to bring
00:33:18
these influences from around them as we
00:33:21
mentioned even their first languages I
00:33:23
would encourage them to bring it the
00:33:26
second word I would use is dialogical
00:33:28
and what I mean is I encourage the
00:33:32
students to interact with themselves and
00:33:35
treat myself as also a person who is not
00:33:39
kind of just judging them or giving them
00:33:43
knowledge but engaging with them so you
00:33:45
know what that means is that in writing
00:33:48
classrooms we always circulate essays
00:33:52
drops multiple drops I use the
00:33:55
web a lot where you can easily post
00:33:58
ongoing drafts and create spaces in the
00:34:02
classroom for students to read each
00:34:04
other's work and myself read their work
00:34:07
to give them a very gentle uh you know
00:34:11
questions that push them on in the lines
00:34:13
they choose you know not to turn them
00:34:16
back into some other orientation so
00:34:19
dialogical in the sense also it's a nice
00:34:21
word from uh bhakti and others that we
00:34:24
learn through and even vygotsky you know
00:34:27
we learn through activity uh so uh and
00:34:31
then the third thing I might say is a
00:34:33
teacher as a facilitator uh that is I'm
00:34:36
there to create a context where uh with
00:34:41
resources that students find useful and
00:34:45
uh resources that can help them to move
00:34:47
forward but also tailored individually
00:34:50
to what the students are doing so as a
00:34:52
student writes I might find that for the
00:34:55
particular topic they are choosing
00:34:57
there's a writer or a text that helps
00:35:02
them pursue that topic further so uh it
00:35:05
would I think to put all this I think I
00:35:07
should also say my pedagogy I like to
00:35:10
use the word soft assembly and what I
00:35:13
mean is it's not rigid here maybe people
00:35:16
might fault me for not being too
00:35:18
structured but at the same time it
00:35:20
doesn't mean there's nothing in a sense
00:35:22
that you go to a classroom without any
00:35:24
plan I have a plan but it's a little
00:35:26
it's soft in its assembly because I say
00:35:28
we're going to now work this together
00:35:30
now as we as students and I work on
00:35:33
their drafts we're going to figure out
00:35:34
what's more strategic Direction at the
00:35:38
same time I'm open for some students who
00:35:39
are very cautious and they don't want to
00:35:42
be too experimental because it's it's
00:35:44
their investment in the writing project
00:35:47
in the language
00:35:49
Etc so so that might give you some
00:35:52
understanding of what's behind the
00:35:53
examples I gave earlier
00:35:56
yes and that that's wonderful and very
00:35:59
helpful as well and I like the way you
00:36:00
stress the teaching being ecological
00:36:02
dialogical and the role of the teacher
00:36:05
as a facilitator it was really coming to
00:36:08
my mind that kind of co-construction of
00:36:10
knowledge and and while while languaging
00:36:14
um as well and like you said very well
00:36:17
do you encourage your students to bring
00:36:19
their languages to the classroom uh and
00:36:21
all the strengths that that entails and
00:36:24
and then to share drafts I think that's
00:36:26
a wonderful way to um
00:36:28
to enable a more Equitable learning
00:36:32
space in general so thank you for that
00:36:35
and our last question
00:36:37
um is how do multilingual or trans
00:36:40
lingual practices differ in the global
00:36:44
North and the global South
00:36:47
right right yeah there's been coming up
00:36:49
recently in a lot of uh places where
00:36:52
people have been uh wondering about the
00:36:55
knowledge we produce and discuss uh from
00:36:59
uh different uh communities so what I
00:37:03
would say is going back to what we said
00:37:05
is ontological about languages and
00:37:08
communication uh communication whether
00:37:10
it's in the global North or South is
00:37:13
made up of a lot of semiotic resources
00:37:15
embodied resources that are part of our
00:37:18
environment and something that goes
00:37:22
beyond just separate languages
00:37:25
whether it's the global North or South
00:37:28
but what what is different is a lot of
00:37:31
different language ideologies we have
00:37:33
had in history with which will
00:37:36
acknowledge it or not and that makes a
00:37:38
lot of difference for practice in the
00:37:40
sense when you have a language ideology
00:37:43
that says there are pure languages and
00:37:46
meaning to respect them or languages are
00:37:49
associated with particular communities
00:37:52
and native speakers and therefore native
00:37:54
speakers have the authority to tell us
00:37:57
how to use the language then it's it's
00:37:59
going to shape uh social practice that
00:38:01
way that is people are going to be
00:38:03
scared of deviations and not be too
00:38:06
creative not bring their own voices so I
00:38:10
would say in the global South uh there
00:38:12
has been a lot more uh uh recognition of
00:38:18
uh languages as part of the environment
00:38:21
as languages as part of the land
00:38:23
and uh I would also uh you know in
00:38:27
addition to embodiment use the word
00:38:29
relationality you know how all these
00:38:32
things work together and shape each
00:38:34
other so uh both uh uh bodies Our
00:38:37
objects uh uh different semiotic
00:38:40
resources different languages uh there's
00:38:43
been a greater tolerance for seeing them
00:38:45
work together so I would say in Sri
00:38:47
Lanka I remember growing up we would put
00:38:48
switch into English and Tamil all the
00:38:51
time and um we didn't think of it as
00:38:53
unusual I I joke with my students and
00:38:56
say uh actually code fishing is easy for
00:38:59
me it's using fewer English that's hard
00:39:01
for me because you know we that was
00:39:03
never a part of our life we are and or
00:39:06
our vice versa using Tamil was also a
00:39:10
pure Tremor it's also difficult for us
00:39:12
because we we always use both languages
00:39:14
together so
00:39:16
um we group we grew up in a practice
00:39:18
where uh languages were always mixed
00:39:21
with a lot of other semiotic resources
00:39:23
there's a using a word in Social
00:39:25
Linguistics
00:39:27
code switching or trans languaging we
00:39:30
might even say trans languaging that's
00:39:32
an unmarked code and what it means is
00:39:34
it's nothing special you know we just do
00:39:37
it all the time that's the normal
00:39:38
condition it's actually trying to be
00:39:41
pure and careful is what is more
00:39:44
difficult for us so uh there's that
00:39:47
language ideology uh maybe prepares
00:39:50
people in the global South for for Trans
00:39:53
languaging in their life in particular
00:39:55
ways whereas in the global North and
00:39:59
here again is a recent ideology uh from
00:40:02
about 17th century Europe that languages
00:40:04
are separate they are pure they belong
00:40:07
to the native speaker
00:40:09
um which took hold over time in recent
00:40:12
history modern history so
00:40:15
because of that there are differences in
00:40:19
practices uh where people are still
00:40:21
struggling uh to bring their own
00:40:24
languages in or even worse people might
00:40:26
say this is a new practice uh this is
00:40:29
novel or this is uh you know uh a
00:40:33
strange you know or even we are doing
00:40:36
something Brave and uh you know colorful
00:40:40
uh because it's kind of a new practice
00:40:42
here uh or um new practice in the sense
00:40:45
ideologically it's something they are
00:40:47
recognizing as different I think I
00:40:49
should also bring in the word
00:40:51
misrecognition ideological
00:40:52
misrecognition here where uh in the in
00:40:56
the global North they haven't seen the
00:40:58
type of practices they always had so
00:41:01
because of that it this is made to look
00:41:03
like a novel experience but anyway I
00:41:05
should say that um people understand uh
00:41:08
translingualism very differently in the
00:41:11
global North for all these reasons and
00:41:13
the danger is that Safa Scholars year in
00:41:16
the United States or in Europe who don't
00:41:18
know uh anything about the global South
00:41:22
um translingualism gets distorted in so
00:41:25
many different ways so as I said for
00:41:27
some people translingualism is a novel
00:41:29
postmodern experience and they are again
00:41:32
the word super diversity which a lot of
00:41:35
European scholars coined as a to index
00:41:37
something new about their diverse life
00:41:40
of diversity uh and translucent gets uh
00:41:44
kind of uh collapsed with that and
00:41:47
people say okay they think of all these
00:41:49
things as new so that's one
00:41:51
Distortion I would say coming from the
00:41:53
global South secondly
00:41:56
um
00:41:56
a lot of even Progressive Scholars
00:41:59
sometimes think of translingualism as a
00:42:04
product so there have been a lot of
00:42:06
criticisms from my good friends uh in
00:42:09
Applied Linguistics who don't agree with
00:42:11
translingualism and they say uh it does
00:42:15
it doesn't do anything for power because
00:42:17
it's a new Norm it's a new Orthodoxy and
00:42:21
therefore it's something that's
00:42:25
uh that uh becomes a dominant way of
00:42:30
talking uh regardless of all the
00:42:33
diversity that needs to be promoted so I
00:42:37
think the mistake there is as I
00:42:39
mentioned in the very beginning of the
00:42:40
interview that we think of language as a
00:42:43
practice in the global North they think
00:42:45
of it as a product and unfortunately uh
00:42:49
Progressive Scholars are also
00:42:51
interpreting trans languaging not as a
00:42:54
practice but as a new norm and therefore
00:42:56
it takes away the edge but you know
00:42:59
going back to what I said about um homi
00:43:02
Baba and others uh it's it's a strategy
00:43:04
uh it's a chirotic strategy it's about
00:43:06
what you do when it's not a way of
00:43:09
talking or a new a set of grammatical
00:43:12
resources or even language resources a
00:43:14
lot of people it's like put English and
00:43:16
Chinese together and you get
00:43:18
translingualism okay so which is uh not
00:43:21
the idea uh which that's just a way of
00:43:24
making a new product right so so that is
00:43:28
the second misunderstanding and a third
00:43:30
misunderstanding or rather Distortion is
00:43:32
how uh educational institutions and
00:43:35
industries are exploiting
00:43:37
translingualism for their purpose so
00:43:39
they make it
00:43:41
um something that is required and not
00:43:44
really the practices that disturb but
00:43:47
um you know uh
00:43:50
they would make it look like a creative
00:43:53
writing or creative language use uh that
00:43:58
uh would profit uh selling of products
00:44:03
uh marketing of funds identity as
00:44:06
somebody who is uh you know learned and
00:44:09
diverse and uh creative so it's it's
00:44:12
also being used in the global North by a
00:44:15
lot of Industries and educational
00:44:16
institutions as kind of a new way of
00:44:19
presenting yourself a new identity so
00:44:22
but we are to always go back to the
00:44:25
critical Edge that translinalism has for
00:44:30
in the global South uh where for
00:44:32
communities there you know I should also
00:44:35
say a lot of communities don't use the
00:44:37
word trans languaging or translingualism
00:44:39
they would have a lot of local words to
00:44:41
use them and this is the kind of a
00:44:42
necessary evil where we need to
00:44:44
sometimes use shared labels shared words
00:44:47
in order to talk to each other because
00:44:50
you know order to develop knowledge
00:44:53
together in order to have a conversation
00:44:55
together but then it risks the danger of
00:44:59
being misunderstood as uh something
00:45:02
that's going on in the global South so
00:45:04
I'm Global notes but we have to go back
00:45:06
to uh some of the uh critical
00:45:09
perspectives from indigenous communities
00:45:12
uh Knowledge from the global South where
00:45:16
uh this kind of translingual Life uh is
00:45:20
a strategy a practice uh for chirotic
00:45:24
moments where you want to have an age in
00:45:27
the conversation uh something that would
00:45:30
uh uh elicit for you
00:45:33
a more empowering identity and more
00:45:37
egalitarian inclusive social interests
00:45:40
for everybody
00:45:43
yes excellent there and a really really
00:45:46
clear identification of um those
00:45:49
distortions and I I like that word that
00:45:52
you use as well and very clear
00:45:54
um distinctions between language being
00:45:56
viewed as practice everyday practice and
00:45:59
global settings as opposed to language
00:46:01
being viewed as a product in the global
00:46:03
North and you you do a fantastic job of
00:46:06
identifying the dangers of that
00:46:09
um and this and I like also the way you
00:46:11
stress the the the is framed or can be
00:46:14
framed as something new or novel when in
00:46:17
fact it's not and and many Global self
00:46:20
situations context settings where um and
00:46:23
I like the word you use relationality
00:46:25
and the language ideology ideologies the
00:46:28
difference there of how language is
00:46:31
viewed or languaging is viewed in a
00:46:34
global north
00:46:35
um in comparison to the global Service
00:46:37
so thank you so much Dr kennegraja that
00:46:39
is all of our questions that we had from
00:46:42
our students members and I just would
00:46:45
like again to take the opportunity to
00:46:47
thank you for your time today and for
00:46:49
sharing your expertise and your
00:46:51
knowledge with us and this is fantastic
00:46:53
and I'm I'm sure many of us will get a
00:46:56
lot from from this video from from our
00:46:58
interview today so thank you
00:47:03
[Music]
