How do obesity and diabetes affect autism risk?

Women with obesity and diabetes have quadruple the risk of having an autistic child.

What is Dr. Chris Palmer's main argument about mental disorders?

He argues that mental disorders are metabolic disorders affecting the brain and suggests that addressing metabolic health can alleviate symptoms.

Why are mental illnesses increasing, according to Dr. Palmer?

He believes the rise in obesity, diabetes, and metabolic disorders is linked to increased rates of mental illnesses.

What role does mitochondrial dysfunction play in mental health?

Mitochondrial dysfunction is linked to metabolic dysregulation, leading to mental health symptoms.

Can diet impact mental health?

Yes, Dr. Palmer asserts that diet has a significant impact on metabolism and consequently mental health.

What treatments does Dr. Palmer suggest for mental disorders?

He emphasizes metabolic health interventions, such as dietary changes, particularly ketogenic diets, to improve mental health.

What is the relationship between trauma and mental health disorders?

Trauma affects metabolism and mitochondrial function, potentially leading to long-term mental health disorders if not resolved.

Are mental health disorders genetic?

Genetic predisposition plays a role, but environmental factors and metabolic health are also significant influences.

What is the state of mental health globally?

Mental disorders are the leading cause of disease and disability worldwide, with increasing prevalence.

How does fasting relate to mental health?

Fasting can mimic the effects of ketogenic diets, potentially improving mitochondrial function and mental health.

No.1 Harvard Doctor: The Shocking Link Between Your Diet ADHD & Autism!

01:46:37

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GVInaBCn_c

Summary

TLDRIn the video, Dr. Chris Palmer, a Harvard psychiatrist, discusses the connection between metabolic health and mental disorders, suggesting that many mental health conditions, such as depression, anxiety, and schizophrenia, could be linked to metabolic dysregulation. He challenges the conventional understanding of mental health as solely genetic or chemical imbalance issues, proposing that the skyrocketing rates of obesity, diabetes, and mental disorders indicate a shared metabolic dysfunction at the core. Dr. Palmer emphasizes the potential of dietary interventions, specifically low-carbohydrate and ketogenic diets, in treating mental illnesses by improving mitochondrial function. He shares personal experiences of struggling with mental illness and the inadequacies of the mental health field, which drove him to explore metabolic health as a critical factor in managing mental disorders. Through the lens of metabolism, he explores the broader implications for conditions like autism, ADHD, and PTSD, highlighting the role of mitochondria in various mental health symptoms. Dr. Palmer addresses the societal increase in mental health conditions and the shift towards labeling some as terminal illnesses, expressing concern over the high rate of treatment-resistant cases. He advocates for hope and better understanding of metabolic health as paths to effective treatment, urging individuals not to give up on finding solutions.

Takeaways

🚨 Obesity and diabetes significantly increase the risk of having autistic children.
🧠 Mental disorders may be linked to metabolic dysfunction, especially mitochondrial issues.
🌿 Dietary changes, such as ketogenic diets, may improve mental health.
🔬 Emphasis on metabolic health could reshape mental health treatment strategies.
📈 Rising obesity and diabetes rates coincide with increasing mental health issues.
🧬 Genetic and environmental factors both play roles in mental illnesses.
⚕️ Many current treatments fail to address core metabolic issues.
❌ Trauma can lead to metabolic imbalances, impacting mental health.
⚖️ Mitochondrial dysfunction can manifest as various mental disorders.
🍽️ Diet is a crucial component in managing metabolic health and mental well-being.

Timeline

00:00:00 - 00:05:00
A Harvard psychiatrist, Dr. Chris Palmer, discusses the link between obesity, diabetes, and autism risk, noting rising mental health issues globally. Current mental health treatments often fail, leading to assisted suicide legislation. Dr. Palmer argues metabolic health could improve outcomes, rooted in his personal struggles with mental illness.
00:05:00 - 00:10:00
Dr. Palmer shares his motivation from personal experience with mental illness, highlighting systemic failures in mental health treatment. Angered by the field's incompetence, his mother's lifelong psychotic disorder fuels his mission to improve treatment options, believing many suffer unnecessarily from inadequate mental health care.
00:10:00 - 00:15:00
Dr. Palmer aims to assist those diagnosed with mental illnesses, critiquing current psychiatric classifications. Many don't benefit from labeled treatments like psychotherapy or medication. Despite some success stories, a significant portion remains untreated or ineffectively treated, destined for terminal labeling under failing health systems.
00:15:00 - 00:20:00
Highlighting the severity of mental health issues, some governments allow assisted suicide for treatment-resistant patients. Dr. Palmer urges those struggling to not give up, promising better understanding and outcomes using metabolic science. Mental illness has grown alarmingly in recent decades, underscoring the need for innovative approaches.
00:20:00 - 00:25:00
Mental health problems have escalated, with autism, ADHD, bipolar, and depression rates increasing worldwide. Despite new treatments, traditional medication shows limited success. More severe disorders like schizophrenia receive presidential care. New insights into treatments are essential as Dr. Palmer reviews systemic challenges in mental health treatment.
00:25:00 - 00:30:00
Dr. Palmer discusses treatment effectiveness, using depression studies to highlight disparities in care success. Treatments help some but fail many. Raising awareness of such failures, he stresses the urgency for improved, individualized treatment plans. His insights focus on metabolic health as a potential avenue for addressing these disorders.
00:30:00 - 00:35:00
Contrary to some beliefs, mental illness increase is factual. School observations and emergency room data reflect this rise, not just acknowledgment. Suicide rates are up, reinforcing the need to understand underlying causes. Dr. Palmer seeks to address those causes, particularly looking at metabolic connections and increased societal stress.
00:35:00 - 00:40:00
Environmental factors, rather than pure genetic disposition, may contribute to rising mental health issues, argues Dr. Palmer. Metabolic dysregulation affecting brain functions points to shared pathways with physical health problems like diabetes and obesity. The connection suggests simultaneous rises in these conditions can have shared origins.
00:40:00 - 00:45:00
Defining metabolism as the energy conversion from food and oxygen in cells, Dr. Palmer links mental health to metabolic efficiency in cells, particularly in mitochondria. Cellular health affects brain performance, influencing mental health outcomes. Disruptions in cellular functions reflect metabolic and mental health disorders interconnectedly.
00:45:00 - 00:50:00
Dr. Palmer elaborates on mitochondria's role in cellular energy dynamics, linking mitochondrial health to mental disorders. Stress and trauma can cause metabolic dysfunction, impacting cellular repair and brain function. Understanding these connections offers insight into broader mental health strategies, emphasizing metabolic health.
00:50:00 - 00:55:00
Stressing that mitochondria significantly influence mental health, Dr. Palmer highlights stress as a metabolic disruptor. These disruptions might lead to lingering mental disorders if unmanaged. Addressing the metabolic impact of trauma through various healing strategies can aid mental health recovery, highlighting metabolism's importance.
00:55:00 - 01:00:00
Metabolic dysfunction, particularly in mitochondria, can create sustained negative responses, risking mental disorders. Normal survival reactions to trauma, if prolonged, harm cellular health. Proper understanding and addressing of these reactions through metabolic and mitochondrial health improvements offer potential relief and prevention.
01:00:00 - 01:05:00
Long-term metabolic distress following trauma can lead to mental health disorders due to cellular disrepair. Dr. Palmer emphasizes the need to restore proper energy use in these cases, advocating a focus on cellular and mitochondrial repair to overcome mental health issues. He challenges the notion of irreversible genetic predispositions.
01:05:00 - 01:10:00
Metabolism's role in mental health challenges calls for an understanding beyond genetic fatalism. Diet, a significant metabolic factor, intersects with mental health outcomes. Redirecting dietary habits to optimize mitochondrial function proves beneficial. Addressing cellular dysfunction provides a path to healing mental health through metabolism.
01:10:00 - 01:15:00
Focusing on dietary impacts on mitochondria, Dr. Palmer underscores the interaction of processed foods with cellular health. Diet changes can enhance mitochondrial performance, supporting mental health improvements. By connecting nutrition to mental wellness, he highlights the pivotal role of metabolic health in therapeutic strategies.
01:15:00 - 01:20:00
Addressing his personal experiences, Dr. Palmer illustrates dietary control's unexpected mental health benefits, advocating for broader dietary awareness. His improved health following a low-carb diet suggests diet's powerful impact. This evidence fortifies his argument for integrating metabolic perspectives in mental health treatment.
01:20:00 - 01:25:00
Dr. Palmer advocates individualized dietary interventions based on personal mental health profiles. Recognizing everyone's unique metabolic needs, he discusses processed foods' potential harms and the benefits of healthier eating patterns. Empirical studies and personal testimonies support dietary reform as a complementary mental health strategy.
01:25:00 - 01:30:00
Citing extreme case studies, Dr. Palmer shows dietary interventions like the ketogenic diet dramatically benefit mental health. While typically treated with skepticism, metabolic-based diets can offer transformative changes for severe mental disorders. This underscores the potential of dietary modulation in psychiatric care, beyond traditional methods.
01:30:00 - 01:35:00
The ketogenic diet's historical role in seizure treatment exemplifies its broader potential for mental health, impacting inflammation, gene expression, and mitochondrial function. These effects substantiate its use beyond conventional epilepsy management, suggesting transformative implications for broader psychiatric applications and mental wellness.
01:35:00 - 01:46:37
Fasting, mimicking ketogenic effects, also shifts metabolism favorably but needs careful application. While not universally suitable, fasting can support mitochondrial health and mental wellness. Dr. Palmer recommends balanced use, cautioning against calorie overloads, illustrating dietary and lifestyle interventions' complex but pivotal roles in health.

Mind Map

Video Q&A

How do obesity and diabetes affect autism risk?
Women with obesity and diabetes have quadruple the risk of having an autistic child.
What is Dr. Chris Palmer's main argument about mental disorders?
He argues that mental disorders are metabolic disorders affecting the brain and suggests that addressing metabolic health can alleviate symptoms.
Why are mental illnesses increasing, according to Dr. Palmer?
He believes the rise in obesity, diabetes, and metabolic disorders is linked to increased rates of mental illnesses.
What role does mitochondrial dysfunction play in mental health?
Mitochondrial dysfunction is linked to metabolic dysregulation, leading to mental health symptoms.
Can diet impact mental health?
Yes, Dr. Palmer asserts that diet has a significant impact on metabolism and consequently mental health.
What treatments does Dr. Palmer suggest for mental disorders?
He emphasizes metabolic health interventions, such as dietary changes, particularly ketogenic diets, to improve mental health.
What is the relationship between trauma and mental health disorders?
Trauma affects metabolism and mitochondrial function, potentially leading to long-term mental health disorders if not resolved.
Are mental health disorders genetic?
Genetic predisposition plays a role, but environmental factors and metabolic health are also significant influences.
What is the state of mental health globally?
Mental disorders are the leading cause of disease and disability worldwide, with increasing prevalence.
How does fasting relate to mental health?
Fasting can mimic the effects of ketogenic diets, potentially improving mitochondrial function and mental health.

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Subtitles

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00:00:00
if a woman has obesity and diabetes she
00:00:03
has quadruple the risk of having an
00:00:06
autistic child but I want to go deeper
00:00:10
and most people don't know this
00:00:12
something horrible has happened Dr Chris
00:00:15
Palmer the Harvard psychiatrist whose
00:00:17
groundbreaking new research could be the
00:00:19
missing piece to cure the mental health
00:00:21
epidemic mental disorders are the
00:00:23
leading cause of disease and disability
00:00:26
worldwide governments are actually
00:00:28
labeling them as terminal illnesses and
00:00:30
to allow people to die by assisted
00:00:33
suicide and they're going to allow them
00:00:34
to die because they know what I'm saying
00:00:36
is true they know that our treatments
00:00:39
fail people year after year after year
00:00:43
and what I'm here to say is you can in
00:00:45
fact get better how I struggled with
00:00:48
mental illness myself for 20 years I
00:00:51
tried to kill myself several times there
00:00:54
was no hope for me
00:00:57
whatsoever and I was furious with the
00:01:01
mental health field for being so
00:01:03
incompetent and I wanted to try to help
00:01:06
and the thing that people have not open
00:01:08
their eyes to is the science of
00:01:10
metabolic health and there's tiny things
00:01:12
in our cells that can heal and recover
00:01:15
people who have had chronic horrible
00:01:17
mental illnesses really yes and if
00:01:19
autism is genetic it shouldn't quadruple
00:01:22
in 20 years these are facts and we can
00:01:24
do something about it today but the
00:01:26
easiest way to understand it is that
00:01:30
quick one this is really really
00:01:31
fascinating to me on the back end of our
00:01:33
YouTube channel it says that
00:01:36
69.9% of you that watch this channel
00:01:38
frequently over the lifetime of this
00:01:40
channel haven't yet hit the Subscribe
00:01:41
button I just wanted to ask you a favor
00:01:44
it helps this channel so much if you
00:01:45
choose to subscribe helps us scale the
00:01:48
guest helps us scale the production and
00:01:49
it makes this show bigger so if I could
00:01:51
ask you for one favor if you've watched
00:01:53
the show before and you've enjoyed it
00:01:54
and you like this episode that you're
00:01:55
currently watching could you please hit
00:01:57
the Subscribe button thank you so much
00:01:59
and I will pay that gesture by making
00:02:01
sure that everything we do here gets
00:02:03
better and better and better and better
00:02:04
that is a promise I'm willing to make
00:02:06
you do we have a
00:02:07
[Music]
00:02:13
deal Chris when you
00:02:15
speak before we started recording you
00:02:18
speak with a deep authentic sense of
00:02:24
mission and that underneath there is a
00:02:28
personal driver that is
00:02:31
unimat and that is getting you out of
00:02:33
bed every day because I could see it in
00:02:35
your eyes I could see it in the way that
00:02:37
you said the words that you said to me
00:02:39
where does that drive begin for you what
00:02:41
was the Catalyst moment in your life
00:02:43
that inspired you and gave you that fire
00:02:45
that seems to be unquenchable to pursue
00:02:48
the path that you've pursued you know I
00:02:50
struggled with mental illness myself
00:02:53
starting in
00:02:55
childhood nobody recognized it nobody
00:02:58
diagnosed it I didn't know what it was
00:03:00
nobody knew what it was I just knew I
00:03:02
was different and
00:03:04
somehow ostracized for who I was and it
00:03:08
just felt like part of who I am and then
00:03:13
a series of horrible tragic events
00:03:15
happened in my extended
00:03:18
family when I was about 12 years
00:03:22
old and my mother ended up having a
00:03:26
nervous breakdown she called it a
00:03:29
nervous break break down it started with
00:03:31
what we would call major depression
00:03:34
quickly escalated to depression with
00:03:38
suicidality and then she developed
00:03:40
psychotic symptoms she became very
00:03:44
delusional she got mental health
00:03:47
treatment but the treatment didn't
00:03:50
work they basically were just kind of in
00:03:54
my 12-year-old mind the psychiatrists
00:03:58
were just drugging her
00:04:01
and those drugs weren't making her
00:04:03
symptoms better they weren't restoring
00:04:05
her
00:04:06
health she went on to live the rest of
00:04:10
her life with a chronic psychotic
00:04:12
disorder and that disorder completely
00:04:15
ruined and devastated her life in so
00:04:19
many ways she lost everything she lost
00:04:23
custody of her eight kids she lost all
00:04:27
of her money everything that courts
00:04:30
didn't give her any support or any money
00:04:34
I had my own
00:04:37
struggles even worse with mental illness
00:04:41
after all of that I ended up leaving
00:04:43
home before I finished high school I had
00:04:45
chronic depression and suicidality and
00:04:48
OCD and other things and the mental
00:04:51
health field was worthless for me and
00:04:54
probably caused a lot of harm for
00:04:56
me and so the the end of the day the
00:05:00
reason I'm a
00:05:01
psychiatrist is because I recognize how
00:05:04
horrible and
00:05:06
devastating mental illness can
00:05:09
be and I came to the field
00:05:13
really angry with the mental health
00:05:16
field for being so
00:05:18
incompetent and I wanted to try to help
00:05:21
I wanted to try to maybe contribute to
00:05:23
better solutions for
00:05:25
people my futile attempts to save you
00:05:28
from the ravages of mental illness lit a
00:05:30
fire in me that burns to this day I'm
00:05:33
sorry I didn't figure this out in time
00:05:35
to help you may you rest in
00:05:40
peace that's my mom and that's the
00:05:44
dedication of the book her story and the
00:05:49
devastation to her
00:05:51
life is the thing that drives me to this
00:05:55
day um and I just know that there are
00:05:58
hundreds of Millions millions of
00:06:01
people just like her with different
00:06:04
diagnoses with different
00:06:07
symptoms but the devastation to their
00:06:11
lives is the same and those people
00:06:14
deserve
00:06:15
better and I want to help them I want to
00:06:18
get them better
00:06:20
treatment those people those people
00:06:23
exist on some kind of I guess multiple
00:06:25
different spectrums of disorder what are
00:06:28
those spectrums of disorder
00:06:30
and what are what are those disorders
00:06:31
that you're referring to when you say
00:06:33
those people are the people that I want
00:06:34
to
00:06:35
help people who are diagnosed with a
00:06:38
mental
00:06:39
illness and
00:06:42
so you know the
00:06:45
diagnoses are all over the map we have
00:06:49
all of these different diagnoses and the
00:06:53
DSM
00:06:55
5tr the diagnostic and statistical
00:06:58
Manual of Psych patry which is kind of
00:07:00
considered the Bible of Psychiatry and
00:07:03
it has all of these labels in it um
00:07:06
schizophrenia bipolar disorder major
00:07:09
depressive
00:07:11
disorder alcohol use disorder which most
00:07:14
people know as
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alcoholism other
00:07:19
addictions uh anorexia
00:07:22
nervosa but
00:07:24
also autism autism spectrum disorder or
00:07:29
dementia that most people know as
00:07:32
Alzheimer's
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disease that those are all of the labels
00:07:38
in our um in our kind of Bible of
00:07:43
Psychiatry and the reality is that when
00:07:46
you look at the treatment
00:07:50
outcomes for people who are getting
00:07:53
treatment for those diagnostic
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labels there is no doubt that our
00:07:59
treatments do work for a lot of people
00:08:03
millions of
00:08:04
people and so millions of people are
00:08:07
helped their lives can be saved by the
00:08:10
current treatments that we have and I'm
00:08:13
not here to take that away from anyone
00:08:16
so for people who are getting treatment
00:08:18
and those treatments are working keep
00:08:20
getting that treatment I don't want to
00:08:22
interfere with anyone's access to those
00:08:26
medications or
00:08:27
psychotherapies or electr convulsive
00:08:30
therapy or whatever treatment they're
00:08:31
getting I don't want to stand in the way
00:08:35
but there are far too many people just
00:08:37
like my mother who did everything they
00:08:40
were asked to do who took all of the
00:08:42
pills who showed up for their therapy
00:08:44
appointments who did everything they
00:08:46
were asked to do and they're not getting
00:08:49
better you know mental disorders as an
00:08:52
as a whole are now the leading cause of
00:08:56
disease burden and disability worldwide
00:09:00
and it's not because those people aren't
00:09:02
getting treatment many of them are
00:09:04
getting treatment yes there are people
00:09:06
who can't afford treatment or can't get
00:09:08
access to
00:09:10
care but a lot of people are getting
00:09:13
treatment I work at one of the best
00:09:15
psychiatric hospitals in the world I
00:09:19
have the privilege of doing that and we
00:09:22
see patients that aren't getting better
00:09:25
we see them all the time day in and day
00:09:28
out
00:09:31
and the crisis the tragedy is that some
00:09:34
governments are actually now moving to
00:09:38
labeling mental illnesses as terminal
00:09:42
illnesses the Canadian
00:09:45
government in March of
00:09:47
2024 is going to allow people to die by
00:09:51
assisted
00:09:52
suicide because of a treatment resistant
00:09:55
mental illness really yes they're going
00:09:59
to allow them to die and they're going
00:10:01
to allow them to die because they know
00:10:03
what I'm saying is true they know that
00:10:05
our treatments fail people year after
00:10:08
year after year and those people become
00:10:11
desperate and
00:10:13
hopeless and they give up on treatment
00:10:16
for good reason because they've
00:10:18
participated in treatment for decades
00:10:21
and it hasn't helped them and the
00:10:24
Canadian government has now made the
00:10:26
decision that they should be allowed to
00:10:28
die with the help of a
00:10:30
physician who can prescribe deadly
00:10:34
medications and make it easy for them to
00:10:36
die by
00:10:38
Suicide the UK is now labeling some
00:10:42
people with eating disorders as terminal
00:10:45
eating
00:10:47
disorders and that maybe you know if
00:10:49
they've exhausted treatment if they've
00:10:51
had treatment for several years or more
00:10:53
than a decade well treatment's just not
00:10:56
going to work for them so let's call
00:10:58
them terminally ill with an eating
00:11:03
disorder people are frustrated and
00:11:06
hopeless again I'm not talking about the
00:11:10
people for whom treatment's working if
00:11:12
treatment is working for someone if
00:11:14
they're taking a pill and it's working
00:11:16
fantastic you're lucky keep doing it and
00:11:20
I don't want to interfere with anyone's
00:11:21
access to that
00:11:23
treatment but we can't hide from the
00:11:27
tragic realities of the the
00:11:30
world for all of those people that are
00:11:33
they might have extreme anxiety
00:11:35
depression schizophren osity these
00:11:36
extreme sort of mental health
00:11:38
disorders what is it that you want to
00:11:40
put into their hearts and Minds with
00:11:43
your work with the message that you're
00:11:44
spreading what is it that those people
00:11:46
need to know and I I say that not as all
00:11:48
of the details which we're going to go
00:11:50
into but the very Topline message that
00:11:53
you know maybe in a sentence you want
00:11:55
those people to
00:11:56
have if you have been trying treatment
00:11:59
and those treatments aren't working for
00:12:01
you please don't give up there is hope
00:12:05
you can in fact get better if you
00:12:08
understand the science you can get
00:12:11
better the mental health conversation
00:12:15
the uh prevalence of mental
00:12:19
health lots of these things seem to have
00:12:21
changed in the last 28 years what is the
00:12:24
state of mental
00:12:26
health as we sit here today and how has
00:12:29
that changed in the 28 years that you've
00:12:31
been at Harvard and working in this
00:12:34
field I think I have a slightly
00:12:37
different perspective yours sounded more
00:12:39
hopeful than
00:12:41
mine you kind of said things have
00:12:43
changed in 28 years and tragically I
00:12:47
actually feel like they haven't changed
00:12:49
a whole
00:12:50
lot if you look at if you look globally
00:12:54
at the
00:12:55
problem the problem of mental illness is
00:12:58
increasing
00:12:59
it is not stagnant and is not decreasing
00:13:02
it is increasing in prevalence
00:13:04
throughout the
00:13:05
world prior to the pandemic about 1
00:13:08
billion people had a mental or substance
00:13:11
use disorder representing about 133% of
00:13:14
the world's population and that was just
00:13:17
in one given year
00:13:20
2017 the pandemic added insult to injury
00:13:24
and rates are much higher now and the
00:13:27
rates of mental illness have been in
00:13:28
increasing across a wide range of
00:13:30
diagnostic categories rates of autism in
00:13:34
the United States over the last 20 years
00:13:37
have
00:13:39
quadrupled a four-fold increase rates of
00:13:43
ADHD are up and through the roof rates
00:13:47
of bipolar disorder in adults a lot of
00:13:50
people think bipolar disorder that's
00:13:52
genetic well in adults in the United
00:13:55
States over the last 20 years rates have
00:13:57
doubled in children and Adolescence
00:14:00
rates are through the roof up
00:14:02
exponentially thousandfold percent rates
00:14:06
of plain old bread and butter depression
00:14:09
major depressive
00:14:12
disorder the Gallup pole does an annual
00:14:15
survey in the United States of current
00:14:18
and lifetime prevalence of depression
00:14:21
and just this year in
00:14:23
2023 rates of both both current
00:14:27
prevalence and lifetime prevalence
00:14:28
reached alltime ever recorded highs so
00:14:32
we have a catastrophe we have an
00:14:36
epidemic mental illness is a growing
00:14:39
escalating
00:14:41
problem and I wish that I could say our
00:14:44
treatments were dramatically better
00:14:47
there is no doubt we do have new
00:14:50
treatment options we have ketamine and
00:14:53
psychedelics we've got transcranial
00:14:56
magnetic stimulation which wasn't around
00:14:58
when I first
00:15:00
started we have some new
00:15:03
medications but the real answer is the
00:15:05
medications that we have are no better
00:15:07
than the old medications because they're
00:15:10
all based on the same
00:15:13
mechanisms so companies are simply
00:15:16
repeating what we already know kind of
00:15:19
sort of works and they're just making
00:15:22
new molecules that kind of sort of do
00:15:24
the same thing and so they still just
00:15:27
kind of sort of work they don't work for
00:15:30
everyone and they even fail to work for
00:15:33
most people in the largest study ever
00:15:37
done of
00:15:38
depression when people come in the very
00:15:42
first anti-depressant treatment they get
00:15:44
over 4,000 people treated at the best
00:15:46
academic centers that we have in the
00:15:49
United
00:15:50
States the first antidepressant
00:15:53
treatment only about 30% get a
00:15:56
remission that means 70% % still have
00:16:00
major depressive disorder they have
00:16:02
enough symptoms to still be labeled
00:16:05
clinically
00:16:07
depressed even if the pill helped them a
00:16:09
little bit it didn't help them enough to
00:16:12
make their symptoms enough of their
00:16:14
symptoms go away now even those 30% who
00:16:17
got a remission many of them are still
00:16:20
having low-grade symptoms like all of
00:16:22
their symptoms didn't go away and after
00:16:26
four levels of treatment
00:16:29
the original published report said that
00:16:33
67% got a remission after four different
00:16:36
types of treatment for major depressive
00:16:40
disorder if we take that at face value
00:16:44
that means onethird of patients are
00:16:46
still clinically depressed after four
00:16:50
levels of
00:16:52
treatment other researchers have
00:16:54
challenged that 67% figure because the
00:16:57
reality is half of the people in that
00:16:59
study dropped out because it just wasn't
00:17:02
working out for them so we got a problem
00:17:06
there like this this protocol clearly
00:17:08
isn't working out well for people when
00:17:10
half of the people are dropping out of
00:17:12
your
00:17:12
study and the second problem is that
00:17:16
there are some researchers who point out
00:17:19
that they changed the criteria for
00:17:23
remission during the study they
00:17:27
prospectively said they were going to
00:17:29
Define remission in a very certain way
00:17:32
using certain
00:17:35
metrics those researchers said if they
00:17:39
stuck to their
00:17:40
protocol only about 35% got a remission
00:17:45
after four treatment
00:17:48
levels that would mean two-thirds of
00:17:50
people after getting four levels of
00:17:53
treatment are still clinically
00:17:56
depressed and that is the current state
00:17:59
of affairs for
00:18:01
depression something that we all know
00:18:04
something that we've got so many
00:18:05
treatments for if we look at more quote
00:18:09
unquote serious mental disorders like
00:18:11
bipolar disorder and
00:18:13
schizophrenia the results are
00:18:16
abysmal the one large study of 6,000
00:18:20
patients with
00:18:22
schizophrenia only 4% of the patients
00:18:26
got a recovery meaning that their
00:18:29
symptomss were in full and complete
00:18:32
remission they were they had a decent
00:18:34
quality of life and that they were able
00:18:36
to function in the world they were able
00:18:39
to have a job or go to school only 4% of
00:18:43
people with schizophrenia got that using
00:18:47
our best treatments available
00:18:51
today those statistics aren't a lot
00:18:54
better than they
00:18:55
were 50 years ago tra
00:18:59
magically Chris when people say to you
00:19:01
or when people say the quite common
00:19:03
rebuttal that the reason we're seeing
00:19:05
this rise in mental health disorders is
00:19:07
just because there's more of a
00:19:08
conversation about it so more people are
00:19:09
stepping forward we now have a word for
00:19:11
it so there's just more labeling and
00:19:14
these mental health disorders like the
00:19:15
ones you've named and even things like
00:19:17
ADHD and autism um it's just because
00:19:20
there's more conversation going on and
00:19:22
these things aren't in fact
00:19:24
increasing that is a common argument and
00:19:30
I would
00:19:32
argue
00:19:33
that it's like just putting your head in
00:19:36
the
00:19:37
sand the easiest place to get an
00:19:40
accurate
00:19:42
read on the true prevalence of mental
00:19:47
illness and not just the recognition of
00:19:50
it but the true prevalence of it is to
00:19:53
talk to school teachers who've been
00:19:55
teaching for more than 30 years if you
00:19:58
ask
00:20:00
them were you just not recognizing the
00:20:03
children 30 years ago who are screaming
00:20:06
and tantruming in your classroom were
00:20:09
you just not recognizing the children
00:20:13
who were melting down when they got bad
00:20:15
grades and injuring themselves in class
00:20:19
were you just not recognizing the level
00:20:21
of Despair that you and anxiety that you
00:20:25
see in
00:20:26
children did you just have your head in
00:20:28
the sand back then and now since
00:20:31
everybody's talking about it you see
00:20:32
those behaviors you see those symptoms
00:20:35
the school teachers and the guidance
00:20:37
counselors will laugh at you and say no
00:20:41
no
00:20:42
no something has
00:20:45
happened something horrible has
00:20:50
happened I wasn't ignoring mental health
00:20:53
30 years ago I wasn't ignoring despair
00:20:57
30 years years ago I wasn't ignoring
00:20:59
extremee anxiety and panic I wasn't
00:21:02
ignoring Tantrums in my classroom 30
00:21:04
years
00:21:06
ago they are skyrocketing in
00:21:10
prevalence if we look at emergency
00:21:13
rooms so emergency rooms in the United
00:21:17
States that's I can speak best about
00:21:20
statistics here in the United
00:21:22
States um but I think in most Western
00:21:26
countries these statistics
00:21:29
are similar we have a
00:21:31
crisis in mental health in emergency
00:21:35
rooms in particular youth mental health
00:21:38
but it's across the board we have all of
00:21:41
these children and adolescents showing
00:21:44
up to emergency rooms having attempted
00:21:47
suicide or they're becoming
00:21:50
psychotic and they're diagnosed with
00:21:52
bipolar
00:21:54
disorder at skyrocketing
00:21:57
rates
00:21:58
and and we don't have enough services to
00:22:01
treat these people these kids these
00:22:04
adolescents our children we don't have
00:22:07
places to put them so they sit in
00:22:10
emergency rooms not getting Optimal Care
00:22:14
simply getting medicated sometimes
00:22:16
restrained to a hospital gurnie so that
00:22:19
they don't try to run away or hurt
00:22:23
themselves talk to anybody in an
00:22:26
emergency room we're see
00:22:28
that those people weren't hiding in
00:22:31
their
00:22:32
homes 30 years
00:22:34
ago something's
00:22:37
happening they are actively acting on
00:22:41
mental health symptoms they are acting
00:22:44
out of
00:22:45
Despair the suicide rate has gone up if
00:22:50
you in the United States or the last 20
00:22:52
years total suicide rate has gone up by
00:22:55
about
00:22:56
30% but if you look at a different
00:22:59
statistic called deaths of
00:23:03
Despair it has doubled in 20 years
00:23:07
deaths of Despair includes not only
00:23:10
suicides but also deaths from alcohol
00:23:13
use drug overdoses and others those are
00:23:17
mental health problems those are
00:23:19
addictions they are mental health
00:23:22
disorders they are in
00:23:25
DSM rates have doubled
00:23:28
in 20 years people weren't dying 30
00:23:32
years ago and we just didn't recognize
00:23:34
it and now we're recognizing death now
00:23:38
we're recognizing suicide we didn't
00:23:40
really recognize it 30 years ago but now
00:23:42
we recogniz no no no we we know we know
00:23:46
what death is morticians know how to
00:23:49
recognize it and diagnose it and the
00:23:52
rates are skyrocketing a doubling in 20
00:23:56
years that is nothing to
00:24:01
ignore that begs the
00:24:03
question what do you believe is causing
00:24:05
it because clearly you know when I've
00:24:08
heard people when I say people I mean
00:24:10
just the you know the things you see in
00:24:12
culture and media or maybe on Instagram
00:24:14
that say you know there's a chemical
00:24:16
imbalance in people's brains I've always
00:24:18
struggled with that I understand there
00:24:19
might be sometimes but I've struggled
00:24:20
with that as a broad answer to a very
00:24:23
complicated Nuance set of issues because
00:24:25
I just have a a bias to believing that
00:24:27
hum aren't born broken you know I
00:24:29
believe that you know my ancestors go
00:24:32
back very I've got a lot of ancestors
00:24:34
that um I understand how natural you
00:24:37
know natural selection and evolution
00:24:39
works I don't think that I was born
00:24:41
broken so I think maybe there's an
00:24:42
environmental factor maybe something I'm
00:24:44
I'm doing or something we're doing as a
00:24:46
society is increasing these rates of
00:24:47
suicidality that you talk
00:24:49
about what you believe is the answer
00:24:51
that we're missing or not talking about
00:24:54
enough the root causes which we can can
00:24:58
get to and and I have lots of ideas and
00:25:01
thoughts on it if you want to get into
00:25:02
the weeds of like what are the exact
00:25:04
causes we can talk about that but the
00:25:08
thing that people have not opened their
00:25:10
eyes
00:25:11
to is the science of what we call
00:25:15
metabolism or metabolic
00:25:18
health and what I ultimately am arguing
00:25:21
the easiest way for me to put it is that
00:25:24
what I'm arguing is that mental health
00:25:27
condition The Chronic serious ones in
00:25:30
which the brain isn't functioning
00:25:34
properly brain disorders that are
00:25:36
causing mental health symptoms those are
00:25:38
the things I'm talking about now that
00:25:40
we're all susceptible to you believe I
00:25:42
think we're all susceptible to it those
00:25:45
in fact are metabolic disorders
00:25:48
affecting the
00:25:50
brain and so the easiest way to
00:25:52
understand why do we see skyrocketing
00:25:54
rates of mental illness
00:25:58
it's not a
00:26:00
coincidence that we're seeing those
00:26:02
skyrocketing rates at the same time that
00:26:04
we see skyrocketing rates of obesity
00:26:08
overweight diabetes and pre-diabetes
00:26:11
which are also
00:26:13
metabolic
00:26:15
conditions that all of those things are
00:26:18
rising
00:26:20
simultaneously and that the brain is an
00:26:23
organ and so some people can have
00:26:26
metabolic problems
00:26:28
and some people can be thin and still
00:26:31
have a metabolic problem so it's I'm not
00:26:35
at all saying that obesity is the only
00:26:38
driver because a lot of times people
00:26:40
think about it in that way so are you
00:26:41
saying obesity comes first and then
00:26:43
everybody gets a mental illness no I'm
00:26:44
not saying it that way sometimes the
00:26:47
mental illness starts
00:26:49
first because it's a manifestation of
00:26:52
metabolic dysfunction in the
00:26:54
brain and it basically means the brain
00:26:57
isn't working working right and so
00:26:58
somebody might have unrelenting
00:27:01
depression or unexplainable anxiety or
00:27:05
psychotic symptoms or bipolar symptoms
00:27:09
or eating disorder symptoms or substance
00:27:12
use disorder
00:27:14
symptoms that they may
00:27:17
have symptoms but all of those things
00:27:20
are a manifestation of metabolic
00:27:22
dysfunction in the brain can you explain
00:27:25
metabolic dysfunction to me like I'm a
00:27:27
10-year-old
00:27:28
the easiest way to explain it is that
00:27:31
our bodies and our brains are made up of
00:27:34
cells and all of our cells need two
00:27:38
essential things to function properly
00:27:42
they need food
00:27:44
oxygen those are the big ones that most
00:27:46
people know it gets more much more
00:27:49
complicated fast because food contains
00:27:51
all sorts of nutrients so we need
00:27:53
certain vitamins and nutrients and
00:27:55
hormones are playing a role all sorts of
00:27:56
things are playing a role
00:27:58
but at the end of the day that's what
00:28:00
metabolism is metabolism is taking food
00:28:02
and oxygen and keeping us
00:28:05
alive they are
00:28:07
fundamental to our health but also the
00:28:11
function of our cells and when something
00:28:15
goes wrong in that process and there are
00:28:18
lots of things that can go
00:28:20
wrong when something goes wrong with
00:28:22
taking food and oxygen and turning it
00:28:25
into
00:28:26
energy
00:28:28
the cell can
00:28:31
malfunction and when it happens in your
00:28:33
brain it means that your brain can
00:28:37
malfunction and the way that we know the
00:28:39
brain is
00:28:40
malfunctioning are all of the symptoms
00:28:43
of mental
00:28:44
illness when
00:28:46
somebody has depression for no good
00:28:50
reason when somebody has anxiety for no
00:28:54
good
00:28:55
reason when somebody
00:28:58
just has experiences like hallucinations
00:29:01
or delusions for no good reason that all
00:29:05
of those things represent the brain
00:29:07
malfunctioning if you could take me one
00:29:09
step deeper into this idea of you know
00:29:11
food and oxygen being converted into
00:29:14
energy in the cell um something goes
00:29:18
wrong
00:29:19
there what goes wrong why does it go
00:29:23
wrong so the real answer is it's
00:29:26
extraordinarily comp licated there are
00:29:28
many Pathways in metabolism there are
00:29:30
many things that play a role but the
00:29:33
easiest way to understand it and the way
00:29:35
to unify it the helpful insight the
00:29:39
immensely helpful
00:29:41
insight and this is new Cutting Edge
00:29:45
information most people don't know
00:29:51
this but there are these tiny things in
00:29:53
our cells called
00:29:56
mitochondria and
00:29:57
they are actually the primary sites in
00:30:02
our cells that food and oxygen are
00:30:06
getting converted into energy or
00:30:09
building blocks for our
00:30:11
cells when you do a deep dive into the
00:30:14
science of
00:30:16
mitochondria you can actually begin to
00:30:21
understand what's happening in the
00:30:23
brains and bodies of people with mental
00:30:26
illness
00:30:27
and you can begin to understand all of
00:30:29
these very complicated things like why
00:30:32
would neurotransmitters become
00:30:35
imbalanced that's what what's causing a
00:30:37
neurotransmitter imbalance if there even
00:30:40
is one what's causing a hormone
00:30:43
imbalance what's causing higher levels
00:30:45
of inflammation in the brains and bodies
00:30:48
of people with metabolic and mental
00:30:51
disorders um what about the gut
00:30:53
microbiome how does that play a role but
00:30:57
what about stress and Trauma
00:31:01
psychological stress trauma how do those
00:31:05
things fit
00:31:07
in mitochondria are actually the
00:31:10
scientific way to begin to connect all
00:31:14
of those dots and help us
00:31:17
understand why the brains of some people
00:31:21
quote unquote malfunction or why they
00:31:24
are
00:31:25
disregulated might be a better way to
00:31:28
put it or why some people can't seem to
00:31:32
quote unquote get over it get over a
00:31:35
trauma or get over a breakup with
00:31:37
someone what's going on why aren't they
00:31:40
more resilient why can't they pull it
00:31:43
together mitochondrial dysfunction as
00:31:47
nerdy and sciency as that is can help us
00:31:51
connect the dots what do I need to know
00:31:53
about the mitochondria what it is I know
00:31:55
it's in every cell in my body um is is
00:31:57
there anything else I need to know about
00:31:58
it before we explore these through lines
00:32:01
and how all these other things come back
00:32:02
and connect to the
00:32:04
mitochondria so mitochondria are present
00:32:07
in most cells in the body not not every
00:32:10
single human the the glaring example are
00:32:13
red blood cells which actually lose
00:32:15
their mitochondria they have them when
00:32:17
they are first forming but then they
00:32:19
lose their mitochondria so red blood
00:32:21
cells interestingly don't live all that
00:32:23
long um we're constantly creating new
00:32:25
ones and turning them over so most
00:32:27
people know mitochondria as the
00:32:29
PowerHouse of the cell which means they
00:32:31
take food and oxygen and turn it into
00:32:33
ATP and that's what most people learn in
00:32:35
school they're the PowerHouse of the
00:32:37
cell but I'm here to tell you they are
00:32:39
so so much more than that there are
00:32:42
hundreds or thousands of them in most
00:32:45
cells they are highly
00:32:49
Dynamic at one point you know the the
00:32:52
theory of
00:32:54
multicellular life on planet
00:32:58
Earth is that mitochondria were once
00:33:01
Independent Living
00:33:05
bacteria and that another single cell
00:33:08
organism engulfed that very first
00:33:13
bacterium and the two of
00:33:16
those organisms lived they stayed alive
00:33:19
usually when you get engulfed by another
00:33:21
organism that means getting eaten and
00:33:24
you you die for whatever reason
00:33:27
these two stayed alive and they became
00:33:30
symbiotic with each
00:33:32
other and actually that event is thought
00:33:37
to maybe have only happened
00:33:39
once on Earth and that single
00:33:44
organism evolved into all multicellular
00:33:47
life that we know today so all living
00:33:50
organisms that we can see with our eyes
00:33:53
plants all animals are
00:33:57
evolved from that same organism so
00:34:02
mitochondria divide and replicate they
00:34:05
actually move around cells they fuse
00:34:08
with each other they Bud off from each
00:34:10
other they they form patterns around the
00:34:15
nucle cell nucleus which plays a role in
00:34:19
which genes get expressed or don't get
00:34:21
expressed they do all sorts of things
00:34:24
when people say that we have a
00:34:26
predisposition a genetic predisposition
00:34:28
to mental health disorders and that you
00:34:30
know you'll have depression if
00:34:31
depression runs in your family Etc is
00:34:33
there Merit in that in your view is
00:34:35
there evidence to support that
00:34:37
absolutely so we know that we know that
00:34:39
mental illness runs in
00:34:41
families genes explain some of that but
00:34:45
not all of that the environment actually
00:34:49
can influence things called epigenetic
00:34:53
factors which are factors
00:34:58
that control the expression of genes
00:35:01
they turn genes on or off and those
00:35:05
epigenetic factors are actually
00:35:07
inheritable you can inherit them from
00:35:10
your parents and so it's not all
00:35:13
strictly
00:35:15
genetics um some of it is epigenetic so
00:35:19
first and foremost there are no genes
00:35:22
that are specific to specific disorders
00:35:25
most people think well you know if
00:35:26
bipolar disorder runs in my family there
00:35:28
must be a bipolar disorder
00:35:31
Gene and in fact there isn't a bipolar
00:35:34
disorder Gene there are genes that
00:35:36
increase risk for bipolar disorder but
00:35:38
at the same time they also increase risk
00:35:40
for schizophrenia and epilepsy and
00:35:44
autism and depression and other types of
00:35:48
mental and neurological
00:35:50
disorders and if you look at the
00:35:52
unifying theme like is there a theme for
00:35:57
these genes is there a common pathway
00:36:01
that can help us better understand
00:36:02
mental illness the common pathway is
00:36:05
that most of the genes are affecting
00:36:07
metabolism and
00:36:09
mitochondria one research study that
00:36:12
came out a couple years ago researchers
00:36:14
have been looking for years at a a
00:36:17
high-risk Gene for
00:36:20
schizophrenia um and we know that people
00:36:22
who have this very very rare genes so
00:36:24
almost nobody has it but if you do have
00:36:27
it you're at high risk for developing
00:36:28
schizophrenia along with lots of other
00:36:30
mental illnesses but schizophrenia is
00:36:32
the big one and the researchers did this
00:36:35
deep dive into trying to understand what
00:36:38
exactly is this Gene doing and at the
00:36:40
end of the day they said it's affecting
00:36:43
mitochondria and that is probably how it
00:36:46
is causing schizophrenia metabolism that
00:36:49
happens as a result of the work of the
00:36:50
mitochondria is that accurate so want to
00:36:52
make sure I've I'm clear on them before
00:36:54
we proceed 90% of of metabolism at least
00:36:58
is occurring in mitochondria so
00:37:01
it's that definition as a scientist I
00:37:04
have to say isn't 100% accurate because
00:37:06
there is a thing called
00:37:08
glycolysis that can happen in cells
00:37:11
where you can actually produce ATP
00:37:14
without using mitochondria what's that
00:37:17
so ATP is usually known as the energy
00:37:20
currency of living organisms of cells
00:37:24
and so um and that that ATP ends up
00:37:28
making cells work it is the energy
00:37:31
that's flowing around cells or the
00:37:33
molecule that's flowing around cells to
00:37:35
make receptors work to to make all of
00:37:38
the Machinery of cells work and that
00:37:43
becomes relevant maybe some of your
00:37:45
listeners will know this if you exercise
00:37:48
really hard like you're running a
00:37:50
marathon or you're running as far as you
00:37:52
can get with a marathon before you
00:37:54
absolutely are exhausted and you just
00:37:56
have to stop your mitochondria will
00:37:59
actually become maxed out that is what's
00:38:01
preventing you from running is your
00:38:03
mitochondria max out and they they're
00:38:05
it's like you don't have enough of them
00:38:07
or they're not healthy enough and so
00:38:09
they just they can't keep you going they
00:38:11
can't keep your muscles going and so you
00:38:13
Peter out and when you Peter out you
00:38:16
start you turn to this process called
00:38:18
glycolysis which actually ends up
00:38:20
producing lactic acid or lactate and so
00:38:24
Runners will get higher levels of LA
00:38:26
lactate and and then that can create
00:38:28
soreness and all sorts of things um but
00:38:33
uh yeah that's so metabolism is really
00:38:36
the process of taking food and energy
00:38:38
food and oxygen I'm sorry and turning it
00:38:40
into energy or building blocks and that
00:38:43
can occur on a small scale outside of
00:38:47
mitochondria but as soon as the
00:38:49
mitochondria in most of your cells are
00:38:51
dysfunctional or dead you you die
00:38:55
there's no way around it
00:38:57
so let's use some of those examples that
00:38:58
you gave earlier you talked about stress
00:39:00
and Trauma and these kinds of things I'm
00:39:02
really Keen to know how a traumatic
00:39:04
event can have an impact on your
00:39:07
metabolism your mitochondria which then
00:39:09
manifests as a mental illness um so if
00:39:12
we take trauma for example people go
00:39:13
through early trauma in their life I
00:39:15
don't know there's a I mean you had a
00:39:16
very traumatic upbringing how do you
00:39:18
think that maybe even in your case if
00:39:21
you were able to see inside of your body
00:39:22
and what was happening that external um
00:39:25
traumatic event came into your body in
00:39:27
some way caused a physiological reaction
00:39:30
had an impact on your metabolism which
00:39:31
results in a mental health disorder of
00:39:34
source it gets a little complicated
00:39:37
because it it goes through a couple of
00:39:39
stages so I'll try to walk you through
00:39:41
it in the simplest way I
00:39:43
can when somebody is first
00:39:47
traumatized everybody if they are normal
00:39:51
will have
00:39:52
symptoms if you get traumatized you will
00:39:54
experience fear
00:39:56
you will experience
00:39:58
hypervigilance you will want to fight or
00:40:01
flee or you might freeze or you might
00:40:03
surrender you might beg for forgiveness
00:40:06
or Mercy or what
00:40:08
you everybody is going to have those
00:40:12
reactions in my mind those reactions are
00:40:15
not disorders they are not
00:40:17
malfunctioning brains or malfunctioning
00:40:21
anything
00:40:23
um so everybody will have that
00:40:27
however when that
00:40:29
happens it immediately changes your
00:40:33
metabolism your metabolis the easiest
00:40:35
way to understand it is the sympathetic
00:40:38
nervous system gets turned on fiercely
00:40:43
if the trauma is really
00:40:44
bad because you have to defend
00:40:48
yourself your life is threatened your
00:40:53
safety is
00:40:55
threatened traumas can even be less
00:40:59
extreme than that you can have highly
00:41:01
stressful events in which maybe even
00:41:04
though your physical life isn't
00:41:05
threatened maybe all your money is
00:41:07
threatened the stock market crashes and
00:41:09
you lose
00:41:11
everything and you now think I'm
00:41:15
worthless I'm
00:41:20
penniless I'm losing my status in
00:41:23
society I'm going to have to live a very
00:41:25
different life I've just disappointed
00:41:28
everybody who depends on
00:41:30
me that could be a trauma even though by
00:41:34
definition because it doesn't threaten
00:41:36
your life it's not technically
00:41:38
considered a trauma so for those people
00:41:41
that are you know they've been through a
00:41:42
traumatic event what then is going on in
00:41:45
their body as it relates to metabolism
00:41:48
based on that traumatic event trauma
00:41:51
immediately changes
00:41:53
metabolism so trauma puts us
00:41:57
into
00:42:01
this you know most people know it as
00:42:03
fight ORF flight
00:42:04
mode um and again there are other
00:42:07
responses that one can have you can
00:42:09
surrender you can freeze you can do
00:42:11
other things but um when people feel
00:42:17
threatened either physically or their
00:42:19
reputation is threatened or their
00:42:21
identity is
00:42:23
threatened immediately they're nervous
00:42:26
system and hormones are
00:42:28
changing and the reason they're changing
00:42:31
is because your our bodies are hardwired
00:42:35
to protect us and in order to protect us
00:42:38
it means that we need more energy and we
00:42:41
need it now we need more energy in order
00:42:44
to be able to run or fight or whatever
00:42:46
we need to do and that means that our
00:42:49
heart rate goes up our blood glucose
00:42:52
goes up cortisol is flowing
00:42:56
[Music]
00:42:57
adrenaline is flowing through the
00:43:01
body inflammation is actually
00:43:05
occurring and epigenetic changes are
00:43:08
occurring memory formation is occurring
00:43:11
in a powerful way during a trauma
00:43:17
memory our brains are hardwiring this
00:43:21
event so that we remember it we remember
00:43:25
this threatened us and you cannot forget
00:43:28
this this is not a trivial moment you
00:43:32
must remember this for the rest of your
00:43:34
life because it's threatening your
00:43:36
survival and you must remember how to
00:43:38
respond to this again not necessarily
00:43:41
because our responses can be all over
00:43:43
the map sometimes our responses can be
00:43:45
quite effective and other times
00:43:48
people can
00:43:50
die they don't respond effectively and
00:43:53
they are killed I mean that would be the
00:43:55
worst case scenario and then there's
00:43:56
everything in between where you you get
00:43:58
a suboptimal outcome you end up homeless
00:44:00
with your psychotic mother that's not a
00:44:03
very effective response when I asked
00:44:05
that question I was asking as we see
00:44:07
patterns in trauma like a trauma pattern
00:44:08
there's a trigger there's a response and
00:44:10
then you know I even think about some of
00:44:12
the low you small te traumas that I had
00:44:15
in my life that meant that I would run
00:44:17
from romantic commitment for the rest of
00:44:19
my life for example and it was like a
00:44:21
pattern I was going through the same
00:44:22
Loop over and over again trigger Steve's
00:44:25
response is like this causes this
00:44:26
outcome
00:44:27
trigger so I was wondering if I learned
00:44:30
at that very young age that cycle
00:44:32
somewhere in my like neurons in my brain
00:44:35
so that's why I said do we then learn
00:44:37
the response to that trauma at that
00:44:39
point as well we we learn the response
00:44:43
we remember the response that we did MH
00:44:46
and as long as we've survived that is
00:44:49
the ingrained memory the ingrained
00:44:52
memory is when this happens do this
00:44:56
because this is what I did and I
00:44:58
survived it and so that becomes the
00:45:02
default and then that becomes a default
00:45:05
pattern for many people MH at some point
00:45:08
in
00:45:11
life it can be act actually be quite
00:45:14
useful to look at that response okay so
00:45:17
when I was 5 years old or 20 years old
00:45:20
or whatever and that thing happened I
00:45:23
responded this way and I survived it
00:45:28
great but how's this working out for me
00:45:32
now is that the optimal
00:45:36
response it's not about beating yourself
00:45:38
up for I should have done something
00:45:40
different back then it's simply about
00:45:43
recognizing and honoring I I did what I
00:45:47
thought I was the right thing to do I
00:45:48
did my best back then but I'm smarter
00:45:52
now I'm older now I'm Wiser now
00:45:57
if I could do it again if I could go
00:46:00
back in time as my smarter wiser
00:46:04
self would I do it differently and what
00:46:07
would the outcome be if I did it
00:46:10
differently and then that becomes highly
00:46:13
relevant to today so when I'm in this
00:46:16
romantic relationship
00:46:19
now I keep having this urge to break
00:46:23
up because this person is disappointing
00:46:26
ing me in this way and I feel like she
00:46:29
or he is going to threaten me or betray
00:46:33
me or
00:46:35
whatever and is that the right approach
00:46:41
is it true that this person is going to
00:46:43
betray me like the person in the past
00:46:46
did or am I hyp sensitive to that am I
00:46:51
again we're wired to look for any clue
00:46:55
that a trauma might happen again so
00:46:58
we're we're going to over
00:46:59
interpret things
00:47:02
sometimes in an in a in an erroneous way
00:47:07
so that early trauma or that trauma I
00:47:09
experienced made my body go into that
00:47:11
survival mode fired all kinds of ways
00:47:13
and my glucose levels went out my all of
00:47:16
these things all metabolism related
00:47:17
stuff happened how does that then cause
00:47:21
a mental health disorder at some point
00:47:22
down the line if that trauma is not
00:47:26
resolved so for some
00:47:29
people they can experience a trauma they
00:47:32
can be quite
00:47:34
effective at mitigating it and move on
00:47:38
with their
00:47:39
life somebody could get into a fight
00:47:42
somebody could get mugged on the street
00:47:45
they're just walking down the street
00:47:46
somebody pulls a knife on them or a gun
00:47:48
on them and wants to Rob them if
00:47:51
somebody manages that trauma highly
00:47:54
effectively let's say you happen to have
00:47:57
a black belt in karate and you disarm
00:48:02
your as salent very quickly and
00:48:05
rapidly you may not think twice about
00:48:08
the trauma you may actually be
00:48:09
emboldened after that traumatic event
00:48:11
and think I'm quite effective and
00:48:13
skilled wow those karate classes really
00:48:16
came in handy and um I'm quite powerful
00:48:19
and maybe even feel a little more
00:48:21
confident than you normally would and
00:48:23
that's the interpretation element right
00:48:24
of the situation so two people could be
00:48:26
in the same situation but have so that
00:48:28
person still had the same physiological
00:48:32
reactions a gun in your face or or
00:48:37
wherever that person's glucose was going
00:48:39
up their heart rate was going up all of
00:48:42
those metabolic changes were
00:48:45
occurring but so that's a success story
00:48:48
and that's probably a resilient person
00:48:50
who moves on and never thinks twice
00:48:53
about that trauma or rarely think thinks
00:48:55
about it and thinks about it with pride
00:48:57
if they do think about it in the case
00:49:00
where it doesn't go well at all let's
00:49:04
leave the extreme out where the person
00:49:06
is
00:49:07
murdered let's leave something less
00:49:10
severe than that but the person is
00:49:16
beaten they are injured
00:49:22
severely they are terrified to go out in
00:49:24
public
00:49:26
for fear that there could be another one
00:49:28
just like that that
00:49:31
person their fighter flight system is
00:49:35
not turning
00:49:36
off their fighter flight system is now
00:49:40
on at least at a low level possibly a
00:49:44
very high level for a very prolonged
00:49:47
period of
00:49:48
time they are now afraid of the world
00:49:51
immediately after that type of horrific
00:49:54
assault they are now afraid of the world
00:49:58
they probably aren't sleeping as well
00:50:01
and what's happening physiologically and
00:50:04
we know this is that those higher
00:50:07
cortisol levels are actually causing
00:50:10
something called hyper metabolism their
00:50:13
mitochondria are actually working on
00:50:17
overtime because the body is still
00:50:19
primed for the world is
00:50:22
unsafe everything is unsafe Maybe that
00:50:25
person who assaulted me is going to
00:50:27
somehow figure out where I live and come
00:50:29
through that door any minute so you're
00:50:31
sleeping at night and you hear a sound
00:50:34
or you hear a
00:50:35
creek and you panic and you wake up and
00:50:38
you're startled and you're terrified or
00:50:40
you sleep at night and you have a
00:50:42
nightmare and you wake up and you're
00:50:44
reliving that experience and just you're
00:50:46
horrified and overwhelmed again is it is
00:50:50
this conscious because you know often
00:50:52
you speak to people with severe anxiety
00:50:54
and they have panic attacks and they
00:50:55
don't know what why they're having panic
00:50:56
attacks they can't name something that
00:50:58
they're scared of or a fear they have no
00:51:01
this is not at all conscious so at this
00:51:04
point in the week or two after a
00:51:06
horrific trauma like I've
00:51:08
described I would argue this is not a
00:51:12
disorder this is not the brain
00:51:14
malfunctioning this isn't the body
00:51:16
malfunctioning the brain and body are
00:51:18
doing precisely what they are programmed
00:51:20
to do protect
00:51:22
you your life is in
00:51:26
danger why because somebody just tried
00:51:29
to take it and they were close they came
00:51:32
close to taking your life they could
00:51:35
have killed you and so your body and
00:51:38
brain are trying to protect you
00:51:40
unfortunately that comes at a
00:51:43
cost all of this energy going toward the
00:51:46
defense system means that
00:51:51
energy that should be going toward
00:51:53
maintaining your cells
00:51:56
is actually being bypassed
00:51:59
sometimes so we know this so for example
00:52:03
there are these things called stress
00:52:06
granules where cells that are trying to
00:52:10
just do basic ho hum everyday repair
00:52:13
work create some new proteins or new
00:52:17
receptors or you know do some cleanup
00:52:21
work the code for those which are called
00:52:24
messenger RNA
00:52:25
actually get sequestered in these little
00:52:27
bubbles called stress
00:52:29
granules and what that means is that
00:52:31
they're not getting done the the
00:52:34
messages are starting from your DNA
00:52:38
because the cell is saying hey I need
00:52:40
some repair work over here send some new
00:52:43
proteins over here to do some repair
00:52:46
work when your body is in fighter flight
00:52:50
mode those messages actually get
00:52:53
interrupted and that means means bottom
00:52:56
line it means that when you feel
00:52:59
threatened your body is diverting
00:53:02
metabolic resources toward your
00:53:04
self-defense system hypervigilance be
00:53:08
ready to run at any minute be ready to
00:53:10
fight off the offender at any minute you
00:53:13
cannot feel safe don't feel
00:53:16
safe when that goes on for a prolong
00:53:19
period of time your cells can fall into
00:53:22
a state of disrepair because metabolic
00:53:25
resources are not going towards cell
00:53:28
maintenance if that occurs long enough
00:53:32
or in a severe enough way it means that
00:53:36
some of your cells can now fall into a
00:53:39
state of
00:53:40
disrepair and they can begin to
00:53:44
malfunction when that happens if it's
00:53:47
happening in brain
00:53:49
cells that's when I would say the person
00:53:52
has crossed the line from a normal
00:53:57
survival reaction to
00:54:00
trauma if their cells in their brain
00:54:03
begin to malfunction now because they
00:54:06
are on a state of
00:54:08
disrepair they that can turn into what
00:54:11
we call a mental illness and that means
00:54:14
that maybe they can't remember like they
00:54:16
used to it means that maybe and and now
00:54:21
they're they can't pay attention like
00:54:22
they used to now somebody might say hey
00:54:25
maybe you've got some ADHD going on or
00:54:30
they their anxiety Pathways become
00:54:33
what's called hyper
00:54:36
excitable and now their anxiety pathways
00:54:40
are being triggered even when they
00:54:42
shouldn't be triggered and out of the
00:54:44
blue they're having panic attacks or
00:54:47
anxiety symptoms they can be sitting in
00:54:49
the comfort of their own home not
00:54:52
thinking any scary thoughts not having
00:54:56
any not watching anything on television
00:54:58
or anything that's really disturbing and
00:55:01
out of the blue they can just be
00:55:02
overwhelmed with a panic attack and that
00:55:07
person I would say if they have a panic
00:55:09
attack for no reason that person's brain
00:55:11
is now malfunctioning it is
00:55:15
disregulated and I would say that that
00:55:18
person has now crossed over into what I
00:55:21
would call a mental disorder where their
00:55:24
brain is in fact malfunctioning
00:55:27
now the great news the
00:55:30
hope and we can get to more of it is
00:55:34
that that those cells can be
00:55:36
repaired we can fix that we can do
00:55:39
something about
00:55:41
that the person does not need to be like
00:55:44
that
00:55:45
forever this notion that they now have a
00:55:48
chemical imbalance that they were
00:55:50
probably genetically predisposed to and
00:55:53
now we've got to just medicate them for
00:55:56
the rest of their
00:55:58
life I don't agree with that I'm not at
00:56:01
all opposed to medication if medications
00:56:03
can be helpful to that person 100% let's
00:56:06
use them Let's help that person heal and
00:56:10
recover but I want to go deeper I want
00:56:14
to understand what is happening in that
00:56:16
person's brain and body using this kind
00:56:21
of information about metabolism and
00:56:25
mitochondria and how can we effectively
00:56:28
help them heal and repair and and
00:56:32
recover you know we talk a lot about
00:56:34
diet and food on this show um as it
00:56:37
relates to metabolism and mental
00:56:41
health
00:56:42
diet so diet is
00:56:46
huge and most people have no clue that
00:56:50
diet plays any role in mental illness or
00:56:54
mental health
00:56:57
95% of mental health clinicians think
00:57:00
it's
00:57:01
laughable that anybody would suggest
00:57:04
that diet can play a role in mental
00:57:07
illness I think it's laughable what do
00:57:10
you think I
00:57:12
think if you do a deep dive into the
00:57:17
science all of the science that we have
00:57:19
accumulated over the last 100 years and
00:57:23
longer sometimes
00:57:25
that if you do a deep dive into all of
00:57:27
those neuroimaging studies that we've
00:57:29
been doing all of the genetic studies
00:57:31
we've been doing all of the
00:57:33
neurotransmitter and hormone studies and
00:57:36
Trauma studies and adverse childhood
00:57:38
experiences studies if you do a deep
00:57:41
dive into the
00:57:43
science and you understand what is
00:57:46
happening in the brains and bodies of
00:57:47
people as a consequence of those things
00:57:51
or what could be causing those things if
00:57:54
you put it all together you come to this
00:57:59
sound bite that mental disorders are
00:58:02
metabolic in nature and there is
00:58:07
no questioning whatsoever it is
00:58:10
incontrovertible that diet plays a
00:58:13
massive huge role in
00:58:19
metabolism and therefore I believe very
00:58:23
strongly that
00:58:25
diet might be playing a role in the
00:58:28
mental health epidemic that we are
00:58:31
seeing and it also might provide an
00:58:35
Avenue of Hope and healing and
00:58:40
recovery and I use the word might is the
00:58:43
scientist in
00:58:45
me is the clinician in me I know without
00:58:51
certainty it can heal and recover people
00:58:54
who have have had chronic horrible
00:58:56
debilitating mental
00:58:59
illnesses and I know from my own
00:59:01
personal
00:59:02
story when I was in medical school and
00:59:05
residency I'm still suffering from
00:59:07
lowgrade depression OCD other symptoms
00:59:11
but I also developed what's called
00:59:12
metabolic syndrome I developed high
00:59:15
blood pressure high
00:59:17
cholesterol um pre-diabetes and I wasn't
00:59:22
really overweight I was EX exercising I
00:59:25
was following a lowfat diet mostly a
00:59:27
processed foods because they're cheaper
00:59:31
but that was the diet that was touted as
00:59:34
a health a healthy diet it was low in
00:59:36
fat and as long as it was low in fat
00:59:38
that was supposed to be good for us and
00:59:41
my metabolic syndrome just kept getting
00:59:43
worse and worse and so at some
00:59:46
point in order to treat my metabolic
00:59:49
syndrome I changed my diet to
00:59:52
essentially a low carbohydrate diet
00:59:56
and
00:59:58
within 3
01:00:00
months my metabolic syndrome was
01:00:03
completely
01:00:05
gone but the thing that just dumbfounded
01:00:10
me was that my mental
01:00:14
health was better than it had ever been
01:00:17
in my entire life and I just couldn't
01:00:21
believe what I was experiencing I didn't
01:00:23
know that I could be that kind of a
01:00:25
person I didn't know that I could be
01:00:27
happy and positive and energetic and
01:00:31
confident I had no idea I I didn't think
01:00:34
that was in
01:00:36
me and by changing my diet all of those
01:00:39
things
01:00:40
happened at the level of the
01:00:42
mitochondria are you saying do you
01:00:44
believe that because you changed your
01:00:46
diet
01:00:47
to more sort of natural healthier foods
01:00:53
at the level of the mitochondria the
01:00:55
mitochondria were able to function more
01:00:57
more naturally themselves and in a in a
01:00:59
more um yeah functional way which meant
01:01:03
that they released the chemicals they
01:01:05
released in the processes they go
01:01:07
through were more consistent with
01:01:11
positive mental health is that like the
01:01:12
simpleton's way of understanding it and
01:01:15
before then you talked about man-made
01:01:17
compounds in the foods Etc I'm assuming
01:01:19
you're saying that some of the modern
01:01:22
foods that we eat the ultr processed
01:01:24
food that have all these random named
01:01:26
chemicals inside them that we see on the
01:01:27
labels the mitochondria don't know how
01:01:29
to deal with that so it's causing the
01:01:31
same sort of disregulation and
01:01:32
dysfunction that they might see if we'd
01:01:34
gone through like an extreme trauma or
01:01:36
something else or some other adverse
01:01:37
environmental situation it's just this
01:01:40
dysfunction of the mitochondria which is
01:01:42
causing the KnockOn effects we see but
01:01:45
there's many things that can cause
01:01:46
dysfunction in the mitochondria and we
01:01:48
name we went through a bunch of them
01:01:49
earlier is that like a simple way of
01:01:51
understanding it 100% okay great it's
01:01:53
perfect so super
01:01:55
interesting okay so on that point then
01:01:57
we have to zoom in on this thing of
01:01:59
diet if you wanted my mitochondria to be
01:02:03
perfect and maybe even give me a case
01:02:05
that of I don't know patients you've
01:02:06
worked with that you've you you've
01:02:08
prescribed a certain diet to what diet
01:02:11
what food would you tell me to eat and
01:02:14
what would you tell me not to
01:02:15
eat so I actually don't have a one siiz
01:02:19
fits all
01:02:22
prescription and so I to say that up
01:02:25
front so I would want to know who am I
01:02:28
working
01:02:29
with and how is their mental and
01:02:33
metabolic Health now me so you yeah so I
01:02:37
would want more details are you having
01:02:40
symtoms of any mental health condition I
01:02:43
would say no however I can I can have
01:02:47
moments where I feel a little bit
01:02:49
anxious so you know I've been through a
01:02:53
lot of I'd say like stressful events in
01:02:55
my life because I was running a big
01:02:56
business we had hundreds of employees
01:02:58
paydays all the time so I had this at
01:03:00
one point I had this constant subtle
01:03:03
stress and so I would want to know do
01:03:06
you feel like you have
01:03:08
anxiety For No Good Reason sometimes
01:03:11
sometimes it can feel a little bit like
01:03:14
that um it's very infrequent I'd
01:03:19
say but I can also have moments where I
01:03:21
just think of something and then I get
01:03:22
the same kind of like it's almost like
01:03:24
the fal FL response has just kicked in
01:03:27
but you think of something adverse or
01:03:29
stressful yeah yeah yeah so so the so
01:03:32
the one thing I would say about
01:03:34
that
01:03:36
and we could get into a lot more details
01:03:39
which we probably don't want to do Now
01:03:42
podcast but my my strong guess based on
01:03:45
just what you've said is that that level
01:03:48
of Stress and
01:03:50
Anxiety is quote unquote normal okay
01:03:54
because you you are sensing I have to go
01:03:57
do something that's really scary right
01:03:59
now or I have to go do something that's
01:04:02
going to ruin someone's life or that
01:04:06
that might threaten My
01:04:09
Success it is normal and actually
01:04:12
healthy to have anxiety and stress in
01:04:16
those
01:04:17
situations the anxiety and stress can
01:04:20
sometimes be quite helpful and adaptive
01:04:23
because it can make you pause and
01:04:26
reflect on is this really what I want to
01:04:28
do as opposed to being overly confident
01:04:31
and just
01:04:32
[Music]
01:04:34
proceeding your own personal history
01:04:38
almost certainly informs your level of
01:04:41
stress
01:04:42
response and again so if you go back to
01:04:45
your own
01:04:47
traumas you're going to remember when
01:04:49
I'm facing a situation like this it's
01:04:51
helpful to be on hyper alert it's
01:04:54
helpful to be
01:04:56
hypervigilant and your body and brain
01:04:59
will remember that helped you navigate
01:05:02
this safely and effectively but if I
01:05:05
have that profile if I have that sort of
01:05:07
mental health profile now as I sit here
01:05:09
and then for the next decade I
01:05:12
ate processed junk
01:05:15
food am I going to send my mitochondria
01:05:18
into disarray which is going to increase
01:05:20
the probability that I have a mental
01:05:22
health disorder yes I think yes we've
01:05:26
got you know we there's no way we will
01:05:29
ever be able to do a human randomized
01:05:31
controlled trial to test that precise
01:05:34
unethical
01:05:35
hypothesis but we have large
01:05:37
epidemiological studies that strongly
01:05:40
suggest that people who eat a lot of
01:05:43
ultra processed food have
01:05:46
higher risk for developing depression
01:05:50
anxiety and other mental
01:05:52
disorders and based on the science the
01:05:56
granular
01:05:58
science based on animal models so we can
01:06:02
do that to mice and rats and in fact
01:06:04
that's exactly what we see in mice and
01:06:07
rats we feed them an obesogenic
01:06:12
diet which is usually high in fat high
01:06:15
in
01:06:16
carbohydrates Ultra processed foods some
01:06:19
researchers have C fed rats and mice
01:06:23
cafeteria Di diets where they feed them
01:06:25
a lot of delicious junk food and those
01:06:28
mice develop higher rates of obesity but
01:06:33
also higher rates of diabetes and
01:06:37
pre-diabetes and oh by the way also
01:06:40
higher rates of depression and anxiety
01:06:44
because those are the two things that we
01:06:45
can kind of measure in M rats we can't
01:06:48
necessarily measure ADHD symptoms it's
01:06:51
really hard to actually measure
01:06:53
psychotic symptoms
01:06:55
um but we can measure depression and
01:06:57
anxiety symptoms pretty well in animals
01:06:59
and so in animal models we know that
01:07:01
that's unequivocally
01:07:02
true and we see the same in humans
01:07:04
though because I was reading your book
01:07:05
and in chapter 4 you say people with
01:07:07
ADHD are more likely to develop obesity
01:07:09
people are who are obese are 50% more
01:07:12
likely to develop bipolar and 25% more
01:07:14
likely to develop anxiety or depression
01:07:16
and weight gain around the time of
01:07:18
puberty leads to a
01:07:19
400% increase in the chance of
01:07:21
depression by the age of 24
01:07:24
yes and insulin resistance at age
01:07:29
nine makes increases your chances of
01:07:32
developing a psychotic at risk mental
01:07:35
state which is like meaning you're at
01:07:37
high risk for developing schizophrenia
01:07:39
or bipolar disorder 500% and
01:07:42
Alzheimer's all mental disorders are
01:07:45
associated with an increased risk of
01:07:48
Alzheimer's disease anywhere from the
01:07:51
lowest is 50% increase risk and the
01:07:55
highest is 2,000% increased risk and the
01:07:59
thread that unites all of these problems
01:08:01
is metabolism
01:08:04
metabolism and at the end of the day you
01:08:08
have to talk about mitochondria in order
01:08:10
to understand
01:08:12
metabolism um only 7% of
01:08:17
US
01:08:18
citizens have no signs of metabolic
01:08:22
health problem
01:08:25
meaning
01:08:27
93% or so of us residents will have at
01:08:31
least one of the biomarkers of metabolic
01:08:35
syndrome meaning they have pre-diabetes
01:08:39
or abnormal lipids or high blood
01:08:42
pressure or abdominal obesity or
01:08:46
abdominal fat excessive abdominal fat so
01:08:49
what do we offer those
01:08:51
93% so those people
01:08:54
diet interventions would absolutely be a
01:08:58
part of a healing
01:09:00
strategy a part of it not the only
01:09:03
strategy I would want to know about
01:09:05
their sleep I would want to know about
01:09:07
substance use I would want to know about
01:09:09
medications lots of things but for
01:09:12
dietary interventions I would want to
01:09:14
meet them where they're at and just find
01:09:16
out well where are you at what are you
01:09:18
eating do you have preferences or
01:09:22
demands for what your diet should be
01:09:25
could you give me a case study then
01:09:27
maybe a more extreme case study from
01:09:28
your practice that you've
01:09:31
seen I could I can give you the simple
01:09:35
cases
01:09:38
where which probably apply to the
01:09:41
majority of human beings on the
01:09:44
planet but if it's okay I'd rather give
01:09:47
you the extreme
01:09:49
case because a lot of people are
01:09:51
skeptical they they probably hear me
01:09:53
saying this and they think well you're
01:09:54
just talking about General Health and
01:09:57
Wellness what about people with real
01:09:59
mental illness what about people like
01:10:02
your mother whose lives were decimated
01:10:04
by mental illness this doesn't have
01:10:06
anything to do with
01:10:08
them and what I'm here to say is no
01:10:11
actually this has everything to do with
01:10:13
them
01:10:14
too but yes it applies to just common
01:10:17
everyday people
01:10:19
but you know probably so one story
01:10:25
that I will just share to just because
01:10:27
it's probably one of the most powerful
01:10:29
stories I know it was a
01:10:34
woman whose real name was
01:10:36
Doris and um in the book I called her
01:10:39
Mildred because I changed everybody's
01:10:41
names but she actually gave me
01:10:43
permission to use her real name so in
01:10:45
honor of her I want to use her real
01:10:47
name so she was a woman who actually had
01:10:50
a horrible abuse of childhood lots of
01:10:53
trauma
01:10:54
and by the time she turned 17 she
01:10:57
started having daily hallucinations and
01:10:59
delusions and was diagnosed with
01:11:03
schizophrenia over the ensuing
01:11:05
decades she tried numerous antipsychotic
01:11:09
mood
01:11:11
stabilizers um anti-depressants and
01:11:14
other medicines but none of them stopped
01:11:17
her symptoms she remained with all of
01:11:20
the symptoms of
01:11:21
schizophrenia she ended up gaining a
01:11:23
massive amount of
01:11:25
weight she ended up weighing about 330
01:11:29
lb by the time she was
01:11:33
70 her life was devastated by this
01:11:37
diagnosis she had a cour appointed
01:11:40
Guardian to manage her financial affairs
01:11:43
and other Affairs she had professionals
01:11:45
coming into her home to help her with
01:11:47
paying bills and grocery shopping and
01:11:49
stuff like that because she couldn't do
01:11:50
it for herself which is not at all unus
01:11:53
usual for people with schizophrenia and
01:11:56
between the ages of 68 and
01:11:58
70 she tried to kill herself at least
01:12:01
six times and was hospitalized for those
01:12:04
suicide attempts she hated herself and
01:12:07
she hated her
01:12:08
life when she was 70 years old her
01:12:12
doctor told her you're overweight and
01:12:14
you need to go lose some weight and she
01:12:17
was she was referred to a weight loss
01:12:20
clinic at Duke University where they
01:12:22
just so happened to be using the
01:12:24
ketogenic diet as a dietary inter as a
01:12:27
weight loss
01:12:29
tool and for whatever reason she decided
01:12:31
to give it a try and so she tries the
01:12:33
ketogenic
01:12:36
diet and within two weeks not only does
01:12:39
she start losing weight but she notices
01:12:41
dramatic reduction in her hallucinations
01:12:45
and
01:12:46
delusions within months all of her
01:12:49
symptoms of schizophrenia were in full
01:12:51
and complete remission
01:12:54
she starts tapering off her psychiatric
01:12:56
meds within about six months she was off
01:13:00
all of her psychiatric meds and her
01:13:02
symptoms of schizophrenia remained in
01:13:05
[Music]
01:13:06
remission Doris went on to live for
01:13:09
another 15
01:13:11
years symptom free medication
01:13:15
free out of psychiatric hospitals no
01:13:19
more suicide attempts she stopped saying
01:13:23
mental health professionals pretty
01:13:24
quickly because they were kind of
01:13:26
worthless in their mind they hadn't
01:13:28
really helped all that
01:13:30
much she lost 150 lbs and kept it off
01:13:35
until the day she died she ended up
01:13:38
dying at the age of 85 of Co
01:13:42
pneumonia and
01:13:44
um but her
01:13:48
story tells
01:13:50
us like we could get if if you want we
01:13:53
don't have to we could get into the
01:13:55
science of the ketogenic diet and what
01:13:57
it's doing to metabolism and
01:13:58
mitochondria I love to know but there's
01:14:00
an entire story that helps us understand
01:14:02
what happened to her and how
01:14:05
exactly that resulted in her really
01:14:09
spectacular and almost miraculous
01:14:12
recovery so so unbeknownst to most
01:14:15
people most people know that ketogenic
01:14:17
diet is a fad diet and a lot of people
01:14:19
are really worried about it they they've
01:14:21
heard that it's dangerous you know it'll
01:14:23
give you a heart attack you'll
01:14:25
die unbeknownst to most people the
01:14:28
ketogenic diet was developed over a
01:14:30
hundred years ago now by a physician for
01:14:32
one and only one purpose it was
01:14:35
developed to stop
01:14:38
seizures and in fact the ketogenic diet
01:14:41
has been studied
01:14:43
extensively for its effects on the brain
01:14:47
over the past 100 years and it is an
01:14:50
evidence-based
01:14:52
treatment for
01:14:54
epilepsy and the reason that is so
01:14:57
important is
01:14:59
because we use epilepsy treatments in
01:15:02
Psychiatry all the time lots of the
01:15:04
medications that we prescribe to
01:15:06
psychiatric patients are in fact
01:15:07
epilepsy
01:15:09
treatments and so we know that there's a
01:15:11
lot of overlap between epilepsy and
01:15:13
mental illness and that treatments that
01:15:16
help with epilepsy can also help with
01:15:19
mental
01:15:20
illness and so we actually know more
01:15:25
about the biology of the ketogenic diet
01:15:27
and its effects on the brain than we do
01:15:28
any other dietary
01:15:30
intervention it changes neurotransmitter
01:15:32
systems it decreases brain inflammation
01:15:36
it changes the gut microbiome in
01:15:38
beneficial ways it actually changes gene
01:15:41
expression or
01:15:43
epigenetics but most important and
01:15:45
relevant to my theory is it improves
01:15:48
mitochondria and mitochondrial
01:15:52
function and and if you do it long
01:15:55
enough over a long enough period of time
01:15:58
you can actually
01:16:00
repair mitochondrial dysfunction in
01:16:03
cells at least for some
01:16:05
people and and then you can actually
01:16:09
stop the diet so in the epilepsy world
01:16:12
when neurologists use this diet to stop
01:16:14
seizures it's usually not a lifetime
01:16:17
treatment they usually only need to do
01:16:19
the diet for anywhere from two to 5
01:16:22
years
01:16:23
many people about a third of people who
01:16:26
have treatment resistant seizures will
01:16:27
become
01:16:28
seizure-free and another third so 2/3
01:16:32
total another third will have a dramatic
01:16:34
reduction in seizure
01:16:36
frequency so that leaves a third for
01:16:38
whom it's not really working but these
01:16:40
are people with treatment resistant
01:16:42
epilepsy and there's no treatment that's
01:16:44
going to work for everybody because we
01:16:46
need to look at all the other things
01:16:48
involved if say somebody has seizure
01:16:52
sensation they get rid of their seizures
01:16:54
on a ketogenic diet usually they have to
01:16:56
do it for two to five years somewhere in
01:16:58
there and their clinician will help them
01:17:00
decide how long they should do it and
01:17:03
then they can stop the diet and most
01:17:07
often the seizures don't come back it
01:17:10
seems to actually heal the brain what is
01:17:13
that diet adding or subtracting from the
01:17:16
body that's causing that pretty
01:17:17
phenomenal effect do people know the
01:17:20
real answer is we don't entirely
01:17:23
understand we don't know I mean the
01:17:25
ketogenic diet removes sugar for example
01:17:29
it
01:17:30
does um pretty much EX entirely I mean
01:17:33
I've been on that diet for about was on
01:17:35
the diet for about eight weeks or so
01:17:37
just a
01:17:38
try and I could I couldn't have anything
01:17:40
with sugar in it pretty much no sugar no
01:17:43
carbohydrates very few
01:17:45
carbohydrates
01:17:47
the so some people will argue well the
01:17:50
diet is getting rid of gluten and gluten
01:17:52
is is maybe the toxic thing other people
01:17:55
will argue oh the diet is adding like
01:17:57
some extra protein or meat and maybe
01:18:01
that's replacing a nutrient deficiency
01:18:03
like vitamin B12 deficiency or something
01:18:06
like that or iron deficiency and all of
01:18:09
those things might be true for some
01:18:13
people I don't think those are the
01:18:15
primary
01:18:17
explanation I mean obviously if somebody
01:18:19
has vitamin B12 deficiency replacing
01:18:21
vitamin B12 is essential somebody has
01:18:23
iron deficiency yes recognizing that and
01:18:26
replacing it but most people don't have
01:18:30
those deficiencies and they can still
01:18:32
have mental symptoms or mental health
01:18:34
problems I believe what the diet is
01:18:36
doing is it it forces a transition in
01:18:40
brain and body metabolism essentially
01:18:44
and that act that transition is actually
01:18:46
mediated through mitochondria so the
01:18:49
ketogenic diet forces your liver to
01:18:52
start producing Ketone bodies so it
01:18:54
forces your liver to break down fat so
01:18:57
you're you're losing fat from your fat
01:18:59
stores but that fat is being shuttled to
01:19:03
the liver and then the liver takes that
01:19:05
fat and breaks it down um and I mean I
01:19:10
shouldn't say all of the fat is being
01:19:12
shuttled to the liver some of the fat is
01:19:13
going to muscles and other tissues and
01:19:15
just being used
01:19:16
directly but a fair amount of the fat is
01:19:19
actually being shuttled to the liver and
01:19:21
then that fat is being converted into
01:19:24
Ketone bodies some of it is being
01:19:27
converted into glucose so that you
01:19:29
maintain normal glucose levels through
01:19:31
this those Ketone bodies are then going
01:19:34
up to the brain and fueling brain cells
01:19:38
but those Ketone bodies are actually
01:19:39
doing so much more they're they're
01:19:41
changing mitochondrial function they're
01:19:44
changing epigenetics they're changing
01:19:46
neurotransmitters and inflammation and
01:19:48
all sorts of things but at the end of
01:19:51
the day I'm convinced that it's really
01:19:54
the metabolic changes and the
01:19:56
mitochondrial changes that are
01:19:59
so important and that are so
01:20:02
instrumental in these dramatic
01:20:04
improvements and things like stopping
01:20:06
seizures or stopping hallucinations and
01:20:09
delusions what about F fasting there's
01:20:11
been a lot of talk especially recently
01:20:13
about fasting and the impact that that
01:20:14
can have on our mental health do you
01:20:17
think
01:20:18
fasting is a positive for our mental
01:20:21
health I so it depends on the person
01:20:24
okay and so the ketogenic diet actually
01:20:28
mimics the fasting State that's what
01:20:30
that's why it was produced all right the
01:20:32
ketogenic diet was actually developed by
01:20:34
a
01:20:36
physician recognizing that fasting can
01:20:39
have really powerful brain effects
01:20:41
including stopping seizures if you if
01:20:43
you're out on an island and Your Friends
01:20:45
start seizing uncontrollably the best
01:20:48
thing to do is to fast them even if the
01:20:50
seizures stop intermittently you would
01:20:53
think oh let's feed you to you know keep
01:20:56
up your sustenance and you know take
01:20:58
care of you the best thing to do for
01:21:00
your friend if they are seizing
01:21:03
repetitively over days or months the
01:21:07
best thing to do is to fast your friend
01:21:10
and to tell them let's have you go
01:21:12
without food for a few days and that can
01:21:15
stop the seizures wow the the challenge
01:21:18
with fasting is that you could starve to
01:21:20
death if you do it long that's not a
01:21:23
that's not a very good treatment for
01:21:25
your friend on the island and this
01:21:27
physician who developed the ketogenic
01:21:29
diet recognized that and so that's why
01:21:32
he developed the ketogenic diet was
01:21:35
really looking to see can we mimic the
01:21:38
fasting state with a
01:21:40
diet and um and get these longer term
01:21:44
benefits so back to your question can
01:21:46
fasting play a role 100% yes fasting can
01:21:49
play a
01:21:51
role and fasting is doing pretty much
01:21:54
the same thing that the ketogenic diet
01:21:55
is doing it's changing mitochondrial
01:21:57
biology it's improving mitochondrial
01:22:00
function changing neurotransmitters
01:22:02
changing the gut microbiome improving
01:22:04
insulin signaling and insulin resistance
01:22:07
it's doing all sorts of beneficial
01:22:09
things there are a couple of caveats
01:22:12
with fasting though one is that people
01:22:16
who are underweight should not fast so
01:22:20
that includes people with eating
01:22:22
disorder ERS who are emaciated or
01:22:25
underweight but it also includes people
01:22:27
like who have had severe
01:22:29
depression and lost weight as a result
01:22:32
of their severe depression or people
01:22:34
with cancer who have lost a significant
01:22:36
amount of
01:22:38
weight fasting is not good for them
01:22:41
fasting mimicking diets like ketogenic
01:22:44
diets May in fact be very powerful for
01:22:46
those people but it but they it needs to
01:22:49
be done in a safe supervised Medical Way
01:22:52
sugar what impact does that have on the
01:22:54
mitochondria if I've got a super high
01:22:56
sugar diet is that impacting my
01:22:58
mitochondria in some way and therefore
01:23:00
my metabolism it is um so
01:23:05
low low intake of
01:23:08
sugar in people who are otherwise
01:23:11
healthy is perfectly fine and
01:23:14
acceptable so you
01:23:16
know lots of people can
01:23:19
consume treats every now and then or
01:23:22
desserts a few times a week or you know
01:23:26
special holiday they can maybe even
01:23:28
binge on sugar over the
01:23:31
holidays and they don't have any
01:23:33
problems as a result of it and that is
01:23:36
fine if that's the way it's working out
01:23:40
again only 7% of the
01:23:42
population is metabolically healthy so
01:23:46
the majority of people that's not the
01:23:48
way it's working out so high levels of
01:23:51
sugar over
01:23:54
time we
01:23:56
know can impair mitochondrial function
01:24:01
so there's this term called oxidative
01:24:04
stress and oxidative stress is primarily
01:24:08
it's directly related to mitochondria
01:24:10
because mitochondria are producing the
01:24:13
energy and then that energy production
01:24:16
results in oxidative stress and and
01:24:19
oxidative stress we've known for decades
01:24:22
is bad for
01:24:23
cells and it is highly correlated with
01:24:27
all of the metabolic disorders and all
01:24:29
of the mental disorders high levels of
01:24:31
oxidative stress at in different cells
01:24:33
and different people with different
01:24:35
diagnoses high levels of oxidative
01:24:38
stress are a unifying theme but that is
01:24:41
a reflection of mitochondrial
01:24:42
dysfunction so we know that if you eat
01:24:45
if you eat a lot of sugar over
01:24:47
time it can
01:24:49
disregulated glucose levels and then
01:24:52
those high glucose levels can cause
01:24:55
mitochondrial dysfunction and you can
01:24:58
end up kind of on the downward spiral
01:25:01
what about caffeine and these stimulants
01:25:04
there's like pre-workout stimulants and
01:25:06
you know before you do a workout you
01:25:07
have a big dose of this pre-workout and
01:25:09
it kind of makes you go like you
01:25:12
know do you have a view on caffeine in
01:25:14
these sort of energy
01:25:17
stimulants I do so so so caffeine gets
01:25:21
complicated because we have to talk
01:25:22
about whether it's in tea or coffee or
01:25:24
not cuz tea and coffee are are different
01:25:28
stories and they have other compounds
01:25:30
that almost certainly are beneficial to
01:25:33
human health um and whether it's the
01:25:36
caffeine itself or not is still kind of
01:25:39
a question an open
01:25:41
question caffeine stimulates metabolism
01:25:45
in cells we know that so it it blocks
01:25:50
the adenosine recept
01:25:52
ctor and the adenosine recept the
01:25:55
function of the adenosine receptor and
01:25:57
adenosine on it is to slow a cell down
01:26:01
it's basically a a feedback loop that
01:26:03
slows cells down it it inhibits their
01:26:06
function so when we block a Denine we
01:26:09
basically stimulate the system and we
01:26:12
stimulate our
01:26:14
brains and if you have low
01:26:18
metabolic brain function that can
01:26:21
actually be really good if you are
01:26:24
feeling tired and sluggish it can make
01:26:28
you feel energized and clear
01:26:32
thinking the challenge is that you can
01:26:34
overdo it so when you stimulate it too
01:26:39
fast that in and of itself can end up
01:26:42
causing oxidative stress or
01:26:44
mitochondrial
01:26:46
dysfunction maybe the easiest way to
01:26:48
think about it is this if you think
01:26:50
about a car you have a an accelerator
01:26:54
and a
01:26:56
break if you're going to maximize the
01:26:59
cars
01:27:01
function there's a right balance for all
01:27:04
of
01:27:06
that you don't want to floor the
01:27:08
accelerator and you don't want to
01:27:10
underdo the accelerator likewise you
01:27:13
want to determine like you don't want to
01:27:15
be pushing on the accelerator and The
01:27:16
Brak at the same time so when we think
01:27:20
about metabolism and mitochondria when
01:27:22
we think about caffeine or even
01:27:26
glucose caffeine and glucose are
01:27:29
stimulating the system they are through
01:27:33
different mechanisms but they are both
01:27:35
stimulating energy
01:27:37
production but when you overdo it it
01:27:39
would be like flooring the
01:27:43
accelerator and then possibly putting on
01:27:46
the break at the same time because you
01:27:48
don't want to be going that fast because
01:27:50
you're going to crash so either you're
01:27:52
going to floor the accelerator crash and
01:27:54
burn or you're going to floor the
01:27:56
accelerator and slam on the brake at the
01:27:58
same time you're not serving your car
01:28:01
well by doing that by flooring the
01:28:05
accelerator and pushing on the brake and
01:28:07
when we use
01:28:09
substances like caffeine or alcohol or
01:28:13
marijuana which are all working at the
01:28:16
level of metabolism and mitochondria
01:28:18
when we use those substances in essence
01:28:21
we're using accelerators or brakes for
01:28:25
cells and we can overshoot or undershoot
01:28:29
so it's not that I'm against the use of
01:28:31
those things if you use reasonable small
01:28:35
to moderate amounts of those on a
01:28:38
regular basis I'm all for it so I drink
01:28:41
coffee every day every morning to
01:28:44
disclose my
01:28:46
bias to disclose my bias I drink coffee
01:28:50
every morning um about two cups of
01:28:52
coffee every morning but that's my
01:28:54
routine I don't go beyond that I don't
01:28:56
drink coffee in the afternoon um when I
01:28:59
do drink coffee in the afternoon I
01:29:02
notice it starts to interfere with my
01:29:04
sleep and then that throws me off I have
01:29:06
to ask you as well I've had so many
01:29:08
parents messag me about autism and ADHD
01:29:11
so many you know I've had so many
01:29:14
concerned parents message me
01:29:15
specifically on Instagram saying please
01:29:18
Steve you know I've had a child
01:29:20
diagnosed with um ISM they're trying to
01:29:23
understand it they're trying to get good
01:29:24
information on it you've used the word
01:29:26
autism and ADHD as we've been speaking
01:29:28
about metabolism what is the link in
01:29:31
your view everything the link is
01:29:34
everything so the really the
01:29:36
mitochondrial theory of autism actually
01:29:39
was first proposed in
01:29:41
1985 and since then we have had an
01:29:44
explosion of research linking
01:29:46
mitochondria and mitochondrial
01:29:48
dysfunction to autism
01:29:50
specifically as I've mentioned to you
01:29:53
the rates of autism have gone through
01:29:55
the roof in the United States they've
01:29:57
quadrupled in the last 20 years and
01:30:00
people think well what does that have to
01:30:03
do with diet those kids haven't eaten a
01:30:05
diet yet well their parents have and let
01:30:09
me share a couple of Statistics so
01:30:12
people are scratching their heads
01:30:14
where's all this autism coming from I
01:30:16
thought autism was
01:30:18
genetic and if autism is genetic it
01:30:20
shouldn't quadruple in 20
01:30:24
years quadrupling in 20 years means
01:30:27
something in the environment is causing
01:30:29
it and to to provide just
01:30:32
one piece of evidence to support what
01:30:36
I'm saying if a
01:30:39
woman has
01:30:42
obesity she has doubled the risk of
01:30:45
having an autistic
01:30:48
child if a woman has diabetes she has
01:30:53
double the risk of having an autistic
01:30:56
child if a woman has both obesity and
01:31:01
diabetes she has quadruple the risk of
01:31:06
having an autistic
01:31:08
child if a man is
01:31:11
obese he has double the risk of having
01:31:15
an autistic
01:31:17
child so people are scratching their
01:31:19
heads trying to figure out where is all
01:31:21
this a ISM coming from well look around
01:31:24
in the
01:31:25
population are the rates of obesity
01:31:27
going up are the rates of diabetes going
01:31:30
up the answer is unequivocally
01:31:35
yes and that is a reflection it's not
01:31:40
about fat shaming I don't want anybody
01:31:42
to hear that and wag their finger at fat
01:31:46
people and say oh you're causing autism
01:31:48
because you're overeating it's not that
01:31:51
simple that's not the way it
01:31:53
goes people with obesity have a
01:31:56
metabolic or mitochondrial problem that
01:31:59
is why they have
01:32:01
obesity now that might be caused by the
01:32:03
foods they're
01:32:05
eating but they don't know any better
01:32:07
usually they think it's just about
01:32:09
calories and what I'm here to say is no
01:32:12
there's more to food than just calories
01:32:14
it might be those chemicals in the food
01:32:16
that you're eating or something else or
01:32:18
it might be chemicals in our environment
01:32:22
it might be
01:32:23
pesticides or microplastics the forever
01:32:27
chemicals that are becoming more and
01:32:28
more ubiquitous all of these things
01:32:31
disrupt metabolism and mitochondrial
01:32:34
function and so when I talk about
01:32:38
obesity and
01:32:39
diabetes increasing risk for autism it's
01:32:44
not about fat shaming it's about
01:32:46
understanding it's about understanding
01:32:48
that the parents have a metabolic
01:32:51
problem already that means that they
01:32:53
have a problem in their cells with their
01:32:57
mitochondria and they then pass those on
01:33:00
to their children and in some
01:33:04
cases it may not show itself immediately
01:33:08
as obesity or diabetes it might show
01:33:10
itself as a brain
01:33:12
condition because lots of other things
01:33:16
can play a
01:33:17
role and if an obese woman for instance
01:33:20
also has an infection during
01:33:23
pregnancy that's going to increase her
01:33:25
risk for having an autistic child even
01:33:28
more so she couldn't help whether she
01:33:30
got an infection or
01:33:32
not tragically we just had an
01:33:36
epidemic called
01:33:38
covid and the early signs are telling
01:33:42
us that in fact neurodevelopmental
01:33:45
disorders are going to increase as a
01:33:47
result of that we already had a
01:33:50
quadrupling of the rates of autism we
01:33:53
are likely to see
01:33:56
even worse statistics going
01:34:01
forward the
01:34:04
hope is that if we understand that
01:34:08
science we can do something about it now
01:34:12
today if you understand if you see signs
01:34:15
of autism in your child if you s see
01:34:19
signs of metabolic or mental health
01:34:22
conditions in your children if we
01:34:25
intervene early enough we can probably
01:34:27
do something about it
01:34:30
how number one by
01:34:33
recognizing the problem and then two for
01:34:37
some people it could be as simple as
01:34:39
dietary
01:34:40
interventions or just hyperfocusing on
01:34:45
good clean living so that means
01:34:48
prioritizing sleep little less screen
01:34:51
time
01:34:52
little more human contact purpose and
01:34:55
life you know family connection no
01:34:58
alcohol no alcohol no marijuana no
01:35:02
CBD try to avoid pills try to avoid
01:35:06
pills for everything that ails you if
01:35:08
your child's
01:35:09
sleeping please try methods other than
01:35:13
pills including melatonin and
01:35:14
over-the-counter pills don't just whip
01:35:17
out a pill for your child not being able
01:35:20
to sleep at least try some other
01:35:23
interventions like let's get you off the
01:35:25
screen two hours before bed let's
01:35:28
develop a routine in our household that
01:35:31
we're all going to wind down we're all
01:35:33
going to turn off the electronics maybe
01:35:35
I'm going to read you a bedtime story or
01:35:38
we're going to play a game or we're
01:35:40
going to do something really boring that
01:35:42
everybody's going to say this is so
01:35:44
boring I'm getting sleepy and I'm going
01:35:47
to say great you're it's so boring that
01:35:50
you're getting sleepy that means you're
01:35:51
going to go to sleep because it's
01:35:54
bedtime want to talk to you about our
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podcast frequently there's something I
01:36:56
talk about very often and that is the
01:36:58
subject of sleep and so I dug down a
01:37:01
pretty deep sleep Rabbit Hole to figure
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savings I have to ask you mentioned that
01:37:55
you moved in with your mother to try and
01:37:56
save
01:37:57
her um when she had was suffering with a
01:38:01
multitude of sort of mental health
01:38:03
disorders what is that like as a child I
01:38:07
I was trying to imagine if I moved in
01:38:10
with my mother when she was you use the
01:38:13
word delusional right what is that like
01:38:17
I've heard people speak to me about a
01:38:18
parent with dementia and that kind of
01:38:21
that loss but what is the loss like that
01:38:23
you experienced if I was a fly on the
01:38:25
wall in those moments what would I have
01:38:26
seen and if I was a fly inside of your
01:38:28
heart what would I have
01:38:32
felt it was actually
01:38:34
really horrendously
01:38:38
awful
01:38:41
um when I first moved in with her we had
01:38:45
a little bit of money still and so we
01:38:48
were living in a rooming house we were
01:38:50
renting rooms
01:38:52
at some point the money ran out and the
01:38:55
support that we were getting wasn't
01:38:58
enough and that's when we became
01:39:03
homeless but almost from day
01:39:07
one living with someone who is severely
01:39:10
depressed and
01:39:13
suicidal and
01:39:17
psychotic it's hard to not feel that
01:39:20
your
01:39:22
self it's like you're living in
01:39:27
this just
01:39:29
oppressive cloud of
01:39:33
Despair and it's everywhere it's in the
01:39:36
air like when you're in the home with
01:39:39
that person it's in the air that you're
01:39:42
breathing it it's hard to describe
01:39:47
it but that hopelessness just overwhelms
01:39:52
I mean you try to cheer the person up
01:39:55
and it's just
01:39:57
feudal and I
01:40:01
remember I think the first like three or
01:40:04
four months I lived with
01:40:06
her I like cried myself to sleep every
01:40:10
night like just sobbing
01:40:14
crying crying into my pillow so that she
01:40:16
wouldn't hear me CU I didn't want to
01:40:18
burden
01:40:19
her but I did know what to do I was just
01:40:23
I was it was just
01:40:27
overwhelming and after about four months
01:40:30
I actually I couldn't cry
01:40:33
anymore I just lost the ability to cry I
01:40:36
became
01:40:38
numb I just I I couldn't
01:40:42
tolerate those emotions that just
01:40:45
despair I couldn't I couldn't manage it
01:40:48
that actually persisted with me for
01:40:50
probably like like 20
01:40:53
years I wasn't able to cry for like 20
01:40:58
years there was a part of me that just
01:41:00
felt like you know crying is weakness
01:41:02
and crying is feudal it doesn't do
01:41:06
anything it doesn't solve any
01:41:10
problems
01:41:14
um it's interesting CU When I was with
01:41:19
her I hadn't gotten to the point of
01:41:22
suicidality myself I was desperately
01:41:26
wanting to stay alive to see if I could
01:41:29
help her and keep her
01:41:31
alive within about a year of that
01:41:34
though I started developing my own
01:41:37
suicidality
01:41:39
and
01:41:41
um and that persisted in me for years
01:41:46
after um I tried to kill myself several
01:41:49
times I was injuring myself I was doing
01:41:53
all sorts of
01:41:54
[Music]
01:41:56
things I was very I was actually
01:42:00
convinced if you asked me at the time I
01:42:02
would have said I was 100% certain that
01:42:05
I wouldn't be alive to the age of
01:42:08
20 I I knew with certainty that I would
01:42:11
be dead and I knew that I just couldn't
01:42:14
tolerate living and that there was no
01:42:16
hope for me
01:42:19
whatsoever Chris thank you your um book
01:42:22
is full of solutions and it's full of
01:42:23
Hope and I think that's why it's such an
01:42:26
incredibly important book and it's a a
01:42:28
book that has The Bravery
01:42:31
to illuminate another set of answers and
01:42:34
another path forward out of the Despair
01:42:37
and the epidemic of mental health um
01:42:39
illness that we're unfortunately I agree
01:42:42
we're heading we are in and increasingly
01:42:45
heading towards if that makes sense it's
01:42:47
certainly increasing in prevalence a
01:42:50
revolutionary breakthrough and
01:42:51
understanding mental health and
01:42:53
improving treatment for anxiety
01:42:54
depression OCD PTSD and much more brain
01:42:58
energy really really remarkable book and
01:43:01
Once upon once in a while books come
01:43:02
along that challenge the status quo in
01:43:05
the most necessary way and your book is
01:43:06
certainly one of them we have a closing
01:43:08
tradition on this podcast where the last
01:43:10
guest leaves a question for the next
01:43:11
guest not knowing who they're leaving it
01:43:12
for and the question that's been left
01:43:14
for you is you were known for your work
01:43:18
Chris but what would you like to be
01:43:20
known for
01:43:21
as the human that you
01:43:25
are I think I would like people to
01:43:29
know like I've shared with you
01:43:34
today that I was
01:43:36
somebody who had given up on
01:43:39
myself who actually thought there's no
01:43:43
possible way I could ever have a future
01:43:47
I could ever live a meaningful or even
01:43:50
tolerable
01:43:53
life and that all has
01:43:57
changed and if it can change for me and
01:44:00
you happen to be one of those people in
01:44:02
a similar state right now it can change
01:44:05
for you
01:44:08
too Chris thank you thank you so much
01:44:11
you know there's this
01:44:13
um there's this wonderful quote that I
01:44:16
read earlier from the start of your book
01:44:18
where you send that message to your
01:44:19
mother my fure T attempts to save you
01:44:21
from the ravages of mental illness lit a
01:44:23
fire in me that burns to this day I'm
01:44:26
sorry I didn't figure this out in time
01:44:28
to help you may you rest in peace but I
01:44:31
have to point out the fact that the work
01:44:34
you're doing the passion you're bringing
01:44:36
to it the wisdom and the 28 years of
01:44:38
study and Care you've put into all of
01:44:41
the work that exists in your book and
01:44:42
your wider work is saving many people's
01:44:47
mothers thousands of people's of their
01:44:50
mothers their fathers their daughters
01:44:52
their
01:44:53
sons and that I think is an absolutely
01:44:58
incredible thing so be on behalf of all
01:44:59
of those people that you'll absolutely
01:45:01
never meet you'll meet many of them sure
01:45:03
many of them messages you message you
01:45:05
but all of the ones that aren't able to
01:45:07
or haven't yet I just want to extend a
01:45:09
big thank you for the work you've done
01:45:11
in your life for those mothers for those
01:45:13
fathers for those daughters and for
01:45:14
those
01:45:15
Sons thank you
01:45:19
Steve
01:45:20
[Music]
01:45:22
as you'll know if you've listened to
01:45:23
this podcast before I'm an investor in a
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01:46:33
[Music]
01:46:35
it