Jimmy Carr: "There's A Crisis Going On With Men!"
Summary
TLDRThe video is an engaging interview with Jimmy Carr, a celebrated comedian known for his quick wit and candid insights. Throughout the discussion, Carr delves into various personal and professional themes, including the emotional rollercoaster of experiencing both laughter and sadness upon receiving shocking news. He humorously recounts his early days in comedy, learning to embrace failure as an invaluable aspect of growth, and recognizing the ever-present imposter syndrome as a sign of development. Carr offers practical advice on effective communication, highlighting the importance of speaking at an optimal rhythm to engage audiences. He shares his journey through anxiety management, focusing on productive activities to keep his mind occupied. Moreover, Carr discusses the societal challenges of modern life, such as the pervasive comfort crisis and the pursuit of happiness amidst material abundance. He reflects on gratitude as a crucial virtue, encouraging others to cherish their current health and happiness, while also noting the societal phenomenon of life dysmorphia, where individuals perceive their privileged lives as lacking. Carr's latest Netflix special, 'Natural Born Killer,' serves as a testament to his ongoing evolution in comedy, tackling issues like consent and masculinity with both humor and substance. The interview also touches on existential themes, emphasizing the significance of appreciating life's fleeting moments and making meaningful choices. Carr's candidness about dealing with loss, both of loved ones and a pet, underscores the importance of gratitude and living with purpose. In summary, the conversation reveals Jimmy Carr as a thoughtful entertainer who consistently strives to push boundaries and inspire others through his unique comedic lens.
Takeaways
- 🎭 Embrace failure as a crucial part of growth, especially in creative fields.
- 🗣️ Speaking at 92 beats per minute is key to effective communication.
- 😌 Managing anxiety through staying engaged and active helps prevent future worries.
- 💡 Imposter syndrome is a normal part of leveling up in any profession.
- 🦸♂️ Gratitude can change your perspective on life's privileges and challenges.
- 🤝 Building meaningful connections is vital for personal satisfaction.
- 📘 The modern comfort crisis affects subjective perceptions of happiness.
- 🎙️ Authenticity in public arenas allows for genuine connections with audiences.
- 📉 Understanding societal trends helps in addressing broader issues like masculinity.
- 🐾 Personal loss can deepen one's appreciation for life and loved ones.
Timeline
- 00:00:00 - 00:05:00
The conversation begins with discussing emotions experienced upon receiving a piece of significant news, highlighting a mix of laughter, crying, and eventual upset. The introduction then leads to the appearance of Jimmy, described as a highly respected and beloved comedian known for punchlines, ready to share insights on comedy, teaching, and personal experiences.
- 00:05:00 - 00:10:00
Jimmy discusses the importance of finding originality and voice in comedy while managing feelings of impostor syndrome, which he believes should occur every 18 months. He emphasizes learning from failures in standup comedy, citing it as a test of desire and a chance to develop resilience. There's a dialogue on career aspirations and advice on becoming a better communicator, specifically mentioning the rhythm of speaking at 92 beats a minute as characteristic of great public speakers.
- 00:10:00 - 00:15:00
Jimmy addresses anxiety as a byproduct of creativity and shares his future plans to handle cancellations. He transitions into talking about the progress of his podcast audience and urges viewers to subscribe, connecting audience engagement with the potential to feature bigger guests on the show.
- 00:15:00 - 00:20:00
As they catch up, Jimmy reflects on the impact of previous discussions and expresses his nervousness about participating in a large show again. He reveals his focus on the concept of gratitude and the significance of grasping the fleeting nature of life, suggesting that material wealth 25 years ahead cannot compare to being healthy and young now.
- 00:20:00 - 00:25:00
Achieving greater gratitude is considered a means to overcoming 'life dysmorphia,' wherein expectations are skewed by the comfort and advances of modern life. Jimmy contrasts today's comforts with historical hardships to illustrate how unprecedented conveniences, like hot showers, should elicit greater gratitude, while acknowledging humans' natural propensity towards envy.
- 00:25:00 - 00:30:00
The ensuing discussion weighs the paradox of material wealth contributing to discontent and comfort crises. Jimmy argues that enduring struggles, rather than leading an easy life, develop great character. He reflects introspectively about hard paths versus easy paths, emphasizing the role of sacrifice and growth in achieving fulfillment. He also parallels religious devotion with self-help principles: sacrificing present comforts for future rewards.
- 00:30:00 - 00:35:00
Jimmy proposes pursuing daily accomplishments as a means to enrich the future, building self-esteem in the process. He underscores value in challenges, questioning the true purpose of succumbing to comfort, akin to a hero's journey. Reflecting on the path taken in his career from leaving advertising to comedy, Jimmy promotes the philosophy of incremental self-improvement over time, valuing the actor within the process more than the product.
- 00:35:00 - 00:40:00
Despite reaching professional peaks, Jimmy suggests one never truly feels at the summit, as personal value resets with the next creative endeavor. His focus lies in refining his craft, telling jokes, and building self-actualization through repeated, spontaneous audience cues that guide his comedic development—a practice that ensures authenticity and resonance with audiences.
- 00:40:00 - 00:45:00
Jimmy explains the integral role of comedy in offering an uncensored glimpse into societal truths and urgent conversations, serving as a release for both himself and the audience. The discussion touches on comedian stereotypes and societal perceptions, examining patterns of success and the stigmatization of ambition. The conversation also explores paths less conventional, understanding self through systemic failures and perseverance.
- 00:45:00 - 00:50:00
The dialogue between host and guest raises existential questions regarding purpose and satisfaction in life, with both noting their relentless work ethic, rooted perhaps in developed pathological tendencies. Jimmy reflects on the privileged yet rigorous life he leads, performing extensively while embracing novelty and resulting in a continual flow of unique memories. The talk also touches on how public perception often harbors dichotomous views of 'luck' between talented individuals and those portrayed as having 'innate' flair. This segues into a wider dialogue about personal responsibility, character, and handling the cycles of 'cancellation' without succumbing to superficial norms or pressures.
- 00:50:00 - 00:55:00
There is an exploration of the productivity culture impacting young men, with video games and online content as proxies for career ambition and relationship fulfillment. By sharing these observations, Jimmy critiques a society that inhibits real risk-taking and personal growth while promoting digital escapism, in turn advocating for genuine experience and tangible risks.
- 00:55:00 - 01:00:00
In a broader societal reflection, Jimmy ties the loss of religious frameworks to modern confusion about identity and value systems, proposing community, purpose, and connectivity as potential replacements. He shares personal introspections on grief and mortality, recounting the loss of his mother and peers, and finding reflective solace in gratitude and presence amid life's fleeting briefness.
- 01:00:00 - 01:05:00
Jimmy details societal shifts towards greater self-reliance, where personal accomplishment is often seen as the primary goal while questioning the roles of traditional societal structures like religion. This narrative connects to personal aspirations, familial relationships, and the need to continually realign priorities amidst evolving circumstances.
- 01:05:00 - 01:10:00
The significance of friendships and community emerged as vital pillars in navigating life's volatility. Jimmy elaborates on comedy's capacity to foster frank discussions outside of filtered societal norms, underscoring comedy's role in challenging perceptions and advancing discourse amid ever-shifting cultural landscapes.
- 01:10:00 - 01:15:00
Jimmy continues to champion unapologetic authenticity in comedy, emphasizing that the art form naturally attracts and repels, as do expressions of opinion. He positions himself and other comedians as navigating cultural intersections through unfiltered storytelling, resisting pressures to self-censor despite societal fluctuations in acceptable discourse.
- 01:15:00 - 01:20:00
As the conversation transitions to media and technology, Jimmy expresses skepticism about AI-driven creativity, predicting instead an enduring human genius component to the arts beyond the reach of machines. He subtly critiques societal focus on tangible metrics, advocating for a richer understanding of value beyond mere visibility.
- 01:20:00 - 01:25:00
Jimmy explores reaching personal and professional milestones amidst an era demanding greater visibility and output. He widens the subject to scrutinize collective expectations, notably in comedy, reflecting on how the art form withstands cultural testing, especially regarding societal norms and boundaries in humor.
- 01:25:00 - 01:30:00
Despite cultural pressures to conform, Jimmy adopts a persistent pursuit of creativity within comedic expression, emphasizing the balance of societal acceptance with candid, authentic content. He encourages embracing character development through challenges rather than aspirational facades.
- 01:30:00 - 01:56:04
Jimmy concludes with reflection on personal growth, reiterating the importance of authenticity. He shares thoughts on legacy and enduring influences, acknowledging significant milestones achieved in his comedy journey while articulating aspirations to continuously evolve and contribute meaningfully. There is a shared notion that confronting mortality prompts a realignment in priorities, urging a present-focused living and persistent gratitude.
Mind Map
Video Q&A
Who is featured in the video?
Jimmy Carr, a well-known comedian, is the featured guest.
What is a key theme discussed in the video?
Gratitude and its impact on life and behavior is a key theme discussed.
What profession does Jimmy Carr teach in the video?
He mentions teaching comedy and the benefits it brings.
What advice does Jimmy give on public speaking?
He advises speaking at a rhythm of 92 beats per minute to be a better communicator.
What is Jimmy's perspective on imposter syndrome?
He believes it's normal and beneficial to feel it every 18 months as you progress.
How does Jimmy Carr handle anxiety?
He manages anxiety by staying busy and focusing on immediate tasks.
What genre does Jimmy Carr's new Netflix special fall under?
It is a comedy special.
What personal experiences does Jimmy share in the video?
He talks about dealing with the loss of close friends and family.
What does Jimmy Carr believe about failure?
He considers failure a crucial part of learning and growth, especially in comedy.
What is Jimmy's view on modern life and happiness?
He discusses the societal obsession with material comfort and its impact on happiness.
View more video summaries
- 00:00:00I remember the day I remember being at
- 00:00:01home and and getting the news and
- 00:00:04laughing and crying and then it hits you
- 00:00:07I was very
- 00:00:08uh very upset by it and he was
- 00:00:14just just so funny you a fantastic crowd
- 00:00:17thank you very much thank
- 00:00:19[Applause]
- 00:00:22you would you please welcome Jimmy one
- 00:00:26of the most respected and best love
- 00:00:28comedians in the world
- 00:00:30the king of on liners okay strap in
- 00:00:33everyone you ready I'm going to start
- 00:00:35teaching comedy because it teaches you
- 00:00:37how to come up with original thoughts to
- 00:00:39find your voice you'll be chasing
- 00:00:40impostor syndrome and it's great you
- 00:00:42should feel it every 18 months you
- 00:00:43learned that failure is one of the great
- 00:00:45gifts of standup comedy and to learn how
- 00:00:47to lose gracefully it's a good test of
- 00:00:49how much you want something how do we
- 00:00:50know what we actually want I love what I
- 00:00:52do now but often question whether I
- 00:00:54should go be like a DJ D what I can
- 00:00:56answer that question for you no you
- 00:00:58shouldn't I know everything do you think
- 00:01:00oh maybe we can make a few quid out of
- 00:01:02this no as a guy that's touring the
- 00:01:04world 300 days a year what advice would
- 00:01:05you give me on how to be a better
- 00:01:07Communicator speak at 92 beats a minute
- 00:01:09when you look at the great public
- 00:01:10speakers they all seem to be hitting
- 00:01:12that rhythm of 92 beats a minute anxiety
- 00:01:14it's the flip side of creativity so I
- 00:01:16think the cure for managing my anxiety
- 00:01:19is hang on the Netflix special drops
- 00:01:22today so I imagine I'm being canceled
- 00:01:23right now how have you come to deal with
- 00:01:25that so the next time I get canceled
- 00:01:26I've got a plan here's what I'm going to
- 00:01:27do I'm going to say
- 00:01:31congratulations diio gang we've made
- 00:01:33some progress 63% of you that listen to
- 00:01:35this podcast regularly don't subscribe
- 00:01:38which is down from
- 00:01:4069% our goal is 50% so if you've ever
- 00:01:44liked any of the videos we've posted if
- 00:01:46you like this channel can you do me a
- 00:01:47quick favor and hit the Subscribe button
- 00:01:49it helps this channel more than you know
- 00:01:51and the bigger the channel gets as
- 00:01:52you've seen the bigger the guest get
- 00:01:54thank you and enjoy this episode
- 00:01:57[Music]
- 00:02:00Jimmy it's great to be back what have
- 00:02:02you been up to I've been you know I've
- 00:02:04been around I've been working I very
- 00:02:06much enjoyed this last time and I'm kind
- 00:02:08of I was a bit nervous coming back
- 00:02:11because it's a Big Show and I I really
- 00:02:14enjoy it I really enjoy listening so I
- 00:02:16I've given it quite a lot of thought
- 00:02:18I've kind of made loads of notes and uh
- 00:02:21you know here's what I'll kick off with
- 00:02:23I've been thinking a lot about gratitude
- 00:02:25as the mother of all virtues and I think
- 00:02:28I'm right in saying this I think you
- 00:02:30would give me everything you own in 25
- 00:02:34years time to be the age you are now and
- 00:02:38as healthy as you are right now and I
- 00:02:41think it's a really interesting
- 00:02:43meditation to think about right if you
- 00:02:46had a time machine if you were 30 years
- 00:02:48in the future if you could be this
- 00:02:50healthy and feel this good and be this
- 00:02:54age you give everything materially that
- 00:02:57you own in 30 years time to be back here
- 00:03:00and just that just to take that end for
- 00:03:02a minute just to take a moment to think
- 00:03:03about
- 00:03:05wow this is amazing what does that
- 00:03:07Inspire in terms of Behavioral change in
- 00:03:09the moment well I think it's that thing
- 00:03:10of like I try and I think gratitude is
- 00:03:12such an important virtue um and it's
- 00:03:16people talk about gratitude practice and
- 00:03:18it does take some practice and it often
- 00:03:20takes like it's a it's like a way of
- 00:03:22reframing the way that you see the world
- 00:03:25so I think that we suffer in the west a
- 00:03:27little bit from Life dysmorphia do you
- 00:03:29hear a lot about body dysmorphia gender
- 00:03:31dysmorphia we've got life dysmorphia a
- 00:03:34lot of people think their life is
- 00:03:35terrible because there's kind of the the
- 00:03:38honic treadmill you get used to how
- 00:03:40great your life is no one had a hot
- 00:03:43shower until 50 years ago so I Tred and
- 00:03:45do this thing when you stand in a hot
- 00:03:46shower George Mack my friend pointed
- 00:03:48this out to me went well look when you
- 00:03:49stand in a hot shower just for a moment
- 00:03:51just go well no one that you admire from
- 00:03:53100 years ago had this simple pleasure
- 00:03:56in life and when you look at the world
- 00:03:59that we live in we we're like you're
- 00:04:01doing there been 100 billion people ever
- 00:04:04right we are in the top top percentile
- 00:04:08in terms of the luck that we have had
- 00:04:11the the lives like the the the calorific
- 00:04:13intake that we just take for granted the
- 00:04:15fact that our children don't die uh you
- 00:04:16know in the first year the the modern
- 00:04:18medicine and our lives and our the
- 00:04:21entertainment that we get we're living
- 00:04:23like kings and yet life has never been
- 00:04:26objectively better and subjectively
- 00:04:29worse
- 00:04:30because the nature of humanity is our
- 00:04:33desires are memetic so we've got this
- 00:04:35thing where we we sort of you know how
- 00:04:37happy are you well it's it's your
- 00:04:39quality of life minus Envy that's how
- 00:04:43happy you are and it's easy to look at
- 00:04:47everyone else and how they're doing and
- 00:04:49and not take pleasure in what you
- 00:04:52have it's funny because there's a cost
- 00:04:54to a hot shower isn't there and that's
- 00:04:56exactly what you're describing there
- 00:04:57because subjectively I think lot of
- 00:04:59people don't feel like they are very
- 00:05:02happy and I think objectively if you
- 00:05:03look at some of the stats around
- 00:05:05suicidality and depression and mental
- 00:05:06health it doesn't appear that people are
- 00:05:08any happier so even though we have sort
- 00:05:10of materially improved Our Lives we have
- 00:05:13hot showers now there's a cost to the
- 00:05:15hot shower in the sense that um maybe
- 00:05:18it's made life too easy maybe it's made
- 00:05:21life too comfortable maybe we're in a
- 00:05:23comfort crisis yeah I mean there's
- 00:05:25there's a there's a lot to be said on
- 00:05:26that I mean it's very I suppose it's
- 00:05:28very tough love but you can't have an
- 00:05:30easy life in a Great Character Show show
- 00:05:33me a trust fund kid that inherited a
- 00:05:35bunch of money and I'll show you someone
- 00:05:37mentally
- 00:05:38tortured it's it's true right everyone's
- 00:05:41like your your struggle what where
- 00:05:44you've come from in Plymouth uh you know
- 00:05:46in living in poverty to now having stuff
- 00:05:50isn't fun getting stuff is fun right
- 00:05:53it's not the pursuit happiness it's the
- 00:05:55happiness of the pursuit right it's it's
- 00:05:57just it's that thing and it's not like
- 00:05:59you know that the self-help it's not the
- 00:06:00journey it's the destination it's not
- 00:06:02either the journey or the destination
- 00:06:04it's who you become on the journey and
- 00:06:06here's the terrible thing about life
- 00:06:08it's self-
- 00:06:09assignment like you know there's school
- 00:06:12and college and then you get dropped
- 00:06:13into the the real world at some point
- 00:06:16and look and you go well you you have to
- 00:06:18decide what you're going to do and you
- 00:06:19can take an easy path and it's it's
- 00:06:22ultimately less fun it's short money or
- 00:06:25you take a hard path and you give
- 00:06:26yourself a challenge and it's great and
- 00:06:28I think you know a lot of the times it's
- 00:06:30that thing of like it's hard to do
- 00:06:33that's a it's it's life is life is
- 00:06:35really really tough those are tough
- 00:06:37things to hear and it's it's easy for us
- 00:06:41because we're sort of on that road but
- 00:06:44then you know the thing I love about
- 00:06:45this podcast is you're sort of trying to
- 00:06:47there's so much kind of wisdom in it so
- 00:06:48many stories that you're sort of you're
- 00:06:50giving people this kind of road map for
- 00:06:52okay well make your life a little bit
- 00:06:54harder in the short term and and and get
- 00:06:58somewhere I mean I I didn't really get
- 00:07:00what religion was until comparatively
- 00:07:03late in life like the idea that God is a
- 00:07:06proxy for the
- 00:07:08future right so so so God represents the
- 00:07:11future so work hard now for a better
- 00:07:13life in heaven right so that's it's kind
- 00:07:16of it's the same as all self-help like
- 00:07:19okay so so
- 00:07:21sacrifice the present for the future
- 00:07:23work is kind of the same it's a
- 00:07:25sacrifice of the present for something
- 00:07:26better in the future that's like it's a
- 00:07:29it's it's an interesting thing to sort
- 00:07:30of think around isn't it that like what
- 00:07:32are you g to do now so I've got this um
- 00:07:35Chris Williamson you know Chris from
- 00:07:37he's a really good friend of mine he's
- 00:07:37lovely guy and we came up with this idea
- 00:07:39so me him and George Mack were chatting
- 00:07:42about what what should you do today that
- 00:07:46you tomorrow would be happy you did so
- 00:07:48sort of 24 hours in the future how best
- 00:07:51to live because people sort of set like
- 00:07:53oh well I'm going to do something for 5
- 00:07:54years you know so it's this huge goal
- 00:07:58but you won't rise to your goal
- 00:08:00you fall to your systems right so that
- 00:08:02thing of like what could you do
- 00:08:04tomorrow what could you do today rather
- 00:08:06that you'd be happy you did tomorrow
- 00:08:07whether it's the food you eat the
- 00:08:09exercise you take the work you do what
- 00:08:11do you do oh right I went to the gym
- 00:08:13yesterday I feel great like a a little
- 00:08:15bit of Doms or oh I wrote 10 jokes and
- 00:08:18tonight I'm on stage trying those jokes
- 00:08:20oh well I'm thanks me
- 00:08:23yesterday I you know I did something
- 00:08:25that was good so you can kind of time's
- 00:08:27going to pass whatever you do and you
- 00:08:29can give yourself gifts in the future
- 00:08:31you can be rich and you can have a
- 00:08:34six-pack and you can be successful and
- 00:08:37you can be in a happy long-term
- 00:08:38relationship with a beautiful family you
- 00:08:40can give yourself those those gifts but
- 00:08:42that there's some tough times in the
- 00:08:44present to give yourself that gift in
- 00:08:46the future something I really wanted to
- 00:08:48ask you about is you've climbed to the
- 00:08:50very peak of your profession like you
- 00:08:52really are generational Talent this guy
- 00:08:54that's what it's true it's true you
- 00:08:56really you really have you think about
- 00:08:57where you started off at sort of 25
- 00:08:59years old in your mid 20s when you
- 00:09:01decided to leave that I think
- 00:09:03advertising business and pursue comedy
- 00:09:05like where you are now really is must be
- 00:09:08the Dre a dream you like never really
- 00:09:11imagined could come true you're at the
- 00:09:13very peak of your profession and I think
- 00:09:14at the peak of your profession I wonder
- 00:09:17sometimes if you wonder more than other
- 00:09:19people who are still on their Journey up
- 00:09:21that mountain what the point in all of
- 00:09:23this is well I think that's that's
- 00:09:25incredibly interesting okay so there's a
- 00:09:27couple of things to unpick there so you
- 00:09:29never feel like you're at the top of
- 00:09:30your profession because you're a you're
- 00:09:32standing on the shoulders of giants in
- 00:09:34whatever industry you're in so you might
- 00:09:36think oh he's doing he's doing very well
- 00:09:38uh you know he's got a Netflix special
- 00:09:39and a new tour and all of the you know
- 00:09:41all of the things but then inside you're
- 00:09:43going well I'm as good as the next joke
- 00:09:44I write so the the thing that I try and
- 00:09:47do is be quite stoic I'm trying to be
- 00:09:49I'm trying to do less better I'm trying
- 00:09:52to just be a stand-up com the world
- 00:09:53ordered a standup comedian and I'm
- 00:09:55trying to honor that right that's what
- 00:09:57people want right go out jokes tell
- 00:10:00jokes push the boundaries great that's
- 00:10:02your little role in the world do that so
- 00:10:05the more I focus on that the the the
- 00:10:07better it gets more people come to the
- 00:10:10show it's that thing of like I suppose
- 00:10:13the whole of the world is built on
- 00:10:14incentives right so you you you put down
- 00:10:17sugar you get
- 00:10:19ants you tell jokes you deliver on a
- 00:10:21show and people come and they enjoy it
- 00:10:23and then they come back next time what'd
- 00:10:24you get out of that I mean the
- 00:10:27self-actualization I suppose the idea of
- 00:10:29going well I do this thing that I I very
- 00:10:31much enjoy comedy because it's an
- 00:10:34immediate feedback loop it's a it's a
- 00:10:37very lucky business to be in because I
- 00:10:39don't have to wait like I don't have to
- 00:10:41discuss with someone ah do you think
- 00:10:43this joke's going to work or not what do
- 00:10:45you think do you think it's too
- 00:10:46offensive or do you think ah tell it
- 00:10:49test it it's it's kind of it's the
- 00:10:51Silicon Valley the um you know uh the
- 00:10:55the Dual testing is is this better than
- 00:10:56this this or this I'm like an an ition
- 00:10:59like just is this this or this or this
- 00:11:01or this this wording or this wording and
- 00:11:03the audience is a genius the audience
- 00:11:04tell me what works so it's it's kind of
- 00:11:08yeah it's it's it's a joyful thing to
- 00:11:10kind of to write a new show and then to
- 00:11:12put something on the on the Shelf like
- 00:11:14the new Netflix special Natural Born
- 00:11:16Killer now streaming on Netflix is is
- 00:11:19like it's it feels like I've given
- 00:11:21people irrefutable proof I am who I say
- 00:11:24I am and that feels really good like
- 00:11:27that's what I do that's better than the
- 00:11:29last one and last time I was on the show
- 00:11:32I talked about wanting to write longer
- 00:11:34bits longer form like I I've got a great
- 00:11:36fast ball but I haven't got a knuckle
- 00:11:38ball and I wanted to try and write some
- 00:11:40different bits that maybe made some
- 00:11:42points and I went away and I did it and
- 00:11:44for better for worse it's there and I I
- 00:11:46gave it a shot and I think it's a better
- 00:11:48more rounded comedy special than the
- 00:11:51previous one and I and I don't hate the
- 00:11:53previous one it's got really good jokes
- 00:11:55in it it's really funny I like it and
- 00:11:57then the new tour I think will be better
- 00:11:58again I think you can see you see
- 00:12:01progress and what are you chasing you're
- 00:12:03not chasing the the thing it's your
- 00:12:07you're enjoying the process it's it's
- 00:12:08being so I don't think you get
- 00:12:11self-esteem from the six-pack you get at
- 00:12:14the gym I think you get self-esteem from
- 00:12:16being the kind of person that goes to
- 00:12:17the gym every day and I don't think you
- 00:12:19get anything from the from the show from
- 00:12:22having done the Netflix special but
- 00:12:24being the person that put that together
- 00:12:26is the that's that's the enjoyable thing
- 00:12:29and you get you get kind of better at it
- 00:12:31you you know the light the weight
- 00:12:32doesn't get lighter your back gets
- 00:12:34stronger I think about this with myself
- 00:12:36a lot I look at what I'm doing in
- 00:12:37business and stuff and with the podcast
- 00:12:38and other things and I go there are
- 00:12:40moments where my brain will ask myself
- 00:12:42the question like what's the end goal
- 00:12:43here because I've got the things that I
- 00:12:46materially need need to be happy I could
- 00:12:48retire and just go chill on a boat but
- 00:12:50for some reason I'm sort of torturing
- 00:12:52myself in many respects but torturing
- 00:12:55yourself very hard what you're doing
- 00:12:57you're giving yourself a character
- 00:13:00because you're giving yourself a
- 00:13:01challenge right we all need the
- 00:13:03challenge so it's like you know with any
- 00:13:05kind of mythological story it's the
- 00:13:07hero's journey and you're on a journey
- 00:13:10to to to do something to become
- 00:13:11something right and you what's your what
- 00:13:13are you doing here what's your role in
- 00:13:14the world but going and sitting on a
- 00:13:16beach isn't anything like you there's a
- 00:13:18reason holidays are are two weeks it's
- 00:13:21so you have three days of going ah we
- 00:13:24should get back like holiday should be
- 00:13:2710 days but somehow we we' made it two
- 00:13:29weeks and that's great because it allows
- 00:13:31people sort of three days of going you
- 00:13:32know what I've got to get back to work
- 00:13:34I've got to do something I like that
- 00:13:36thing of like the top of your profession
- 00:13:37well you'll always be looking ahead
- 00:13:39right at someone that's you know if it's
- 00:13:41for you probably Joe Rogan you go well
- 00:13:43Joe's got the biggest podcast in the
- 00:13:44world and what are you number two and
- 00:13:47you and so you're you've got something
- 00:13:49to aim at and even if you're number one
- 00:13:50then you're going to go yeah but radio
- 00:13:53still bigger so huh like that thing if
- 00:13:56you'll be chasing something giving
- 00:13:57yourself maybe an artificial
- 00:13:59um goal in the future but it's a it's a
- 00:14:03it's just a um something to point you in
- 00:14:07the right direction is there a little
- 00:14:08bit of unhappiness sort of voluntary
- 00:14:10unhappiness involved in wanting to that
- 00:14:14thing off in the future you think you
- 00:14:16know because if there's I sat with a
- 00:14:17psychologist a psychiatrist the other
- 00:14:18day who was on the podcast and he said
- 00:14:20if you live your life continually
- 00:14:22wanting you're essentially deferring
- 00:14:23your happiness and replacing it with
- 00:14:25sort of discontent in the moment well
- 00:14:27this is I mean listen even the worst
- 00:14:29people say great things chairman ma said
- 00:14:32uh you can't smell the roses from a
- 00:14:34galloping horse so when you're moving at
- 00:14:37that kind of speed you don't take any
- 00:14:39time to enjoy life right so you have to
- 00:14:41just just enjoy the moment but you enjoy
- 00:14:44these conversations you enjoy the thing
- 00:14:46that you do now the hard work is a lot
- 00:14:48of the stuff around it you know the
- 00:14:50travel and the the admin or whatever but
- 00:14:51you have to love the whole job you can't
- 00:14:54just go well I want that bit because in
- 00:14:56the same way that people are jealous of
- 00:14:57you there'll be other podcasters that
- 00:14:58are very jealous of what you've got but
- 00:14:59they're jealous of what you've got
- 00:15:01they're not jealous of how you got it no
- 00:15:04comedians are jealous of how I got it no
- 00:15:07one sits there and goes oh I wish I
- 00:15:08could sit for 10 hours a day and write
- 00:15:09jokes oh they think I'd want to play
- 00:15:12that venue or I'd love to have that
- 00:15:14Netflix special but they don't sit there
- 00:15:15going well what pathology would you need
- 00:15:17in your head to write that many on
- 00:15:19liners and to care that much about it
- 00:15:22who would you have to be to do that and
- 00:15:25we're all chasing something right I
- 00:15:26think we're chasing impostor syndrome I
- 00:15:29think imposter syndrome's got a bad
- 00:15:30reputation and it's great you should
- 00:15:31feel it every 18
- 00:15:34months as you level up you should feel
- 00:15:37like do I belong here right this show is
- 00:15:40much bigger than it was when I was last
- 00:15:42on congratulations you why is it bigger
- 00:15:44well because you pushed yourself and you
- 00:15:46worked harder right and now sometimes
- 00:15:49you feel like oh my God I'm interviewing
- 00:15:50this
- 00:15:51person great don't feel comfortable
- 00:15:54lovely as soon as you start to feel
- 00:15:56comfortable you need to push yourself a
- 00:15:57little bit further there's a great story
- 00:15:59my friend told me this a very Nam droppy
- 00:16:00story you mind good all right Brandon
- 00:16:02Flowers told me this story so he's
- 00:16:04filming a video with Lou Reed like 10
- 00:16:06years ago they did a song with Lou Reed
- 00:16:07which is preall for the killers and
- 00:16:09they're filming this video and they're
- 00:16:11backstage they're in the they're in the
- 00:16:13uh the The Green Room and Lou Reed's
- 00:16:17there he's got leather trousers on he's
- 00:16:18got a leather jacket and a vest he's got
- 00:16:20mirrored
- 00:16:21sunglasses he's Lou Reed and he looks in
- 00:16:24the mirror and Brandon sort of sees him
- 00:16:26just like checking himself out and Lou
- 00:16:28re just goes I wish I was that
- 00:16:33guy Lou Reed's got imposter syndrome and
- 00:16:36he's Lou Reed there's nothing to matter
- 00:16:38with it you know a guy that's been a
- 00:16:39rock star and a legend for 40 years is
- 00:16:41still feeling that thing of like going I
- 00:16:43don't feel like I'm that guy great
- 00:16:45that's how you should feel so if you
- 00:16:47haven't felt imposter syndrome in the
- 00:16:49last 12 18 months you think there's
- 00:16:51something probably what push yourself a
- 00:16:53little bit hard I mean it depends it
- 00:16:54depends what you want to do you can have
- 00:16:55an easy life some people you know work
- 00:16:59to live some people live to work it's
- 00:17:01it's there's different ways of doing
- 00:17:02things it's not necessarily you don't
- 00:17:04necessarily need to push yourself in
- 00:17:06that way like you're listening to us and
- 00:17:08and you know there might be a
- 00:17:10psychiatrist listening going well these
- 00:17:11guys are pathologically ambitious this
- 00:17:13isn't healthy they should just be you
- 00:17:16know chilling out and maybe they have a
- 00:17:19good
- 00:17:20point I look at your work ethic and I
- 00:17:23just feel like I've never seen anything
- 00:17:24like it for someone who is incredibly
- 00:17:26successful I look at your tour dates and
- 00:17:28I'm like this guy spends how many dates
- 00:17:31a year on stage maybe 300 shows a year
- 00:17:33something like that 300 shows a year
- 00:17:35well most people turn up to work every
- 00:17:36day don't they I
- 00:17:39mean you know it's also most people like
- 00:17:42get get your average listener to the
- 00:17:44show and go okay do you want to swap
- 00:17:45lives you you have to work for two hours
- 00:17:47a day but You' be telling jokes to
- 00:17:49people and it's joyful it's what what
- 00:17:52looks like work to other people and
- 00:17:55feels like play to you there you go
- 00:17:58there's there say like as a really happy
- 00:18:00life that people go oh my God he worked
- 00:18:02so hard and I'm going you're joking
- 00:18:03aren't you you are literally joking and
- 00:18:05then you go oh the tour dates like this
- 00:18:07last week I was in I know what South
- 00:18:09Africa Paris Istanbul Budapest
- 00:18:12Vienna what a life what because really
- 00:18:16that's the other thing about life people
- 00:18:17don't want to live longer they want more
- 00:18:19memories and and really how do you get
- 00:18:21more memories well it's it's doing novel
- 00:18:24interesting things so if you commute to
- 00:18:27work every day the same commute for a
- 00:18:29year you don't have 300 memories of that
- 00:18:32commute you've got one memory right but
- 00:18:34if you do different things every day you
- 00:18:36go to different places you talk to
- 00:18:37different people you you experience the
- 00:18:38what that's a fantastic that Variety in
- 00:18:41life gives you more memories more life
- 00:18:45you pointed at your head a second ago
- 00:18:46and said we must be pathological in some
- 00:18:49way yeah do you think you are yeah yeah
- 00:18:52I'm not sure I'm the I don't know I mean
- 00:18:54I'm not sure I'm not entirely sure if
- 00:18:55comedy isn't a uh some sort of low-level
- 00:18:58Mental Health issue that you can turn
- 00:18:59into a career I it's you know it's like
- 00:19:01for most people it seems quite strange
- 00:19:03to want to stand on stage and uh and
- 00:19:05tell jokes I think it's it sounds
- 00:19:07terrifying to a lot of people but I find
- 00:19:09it very very fun Have you ever figured
- 00:19:11out why you are wide in such a way not
- 00:19:14really I mean I suppose that thing of it
- 00:19:16goes back to Childhood it goes back to
- 00:19:19um my mother was an incredibly funny
- 00:19:21Larger than Life Irish woman I was very
- 00:19:23very close to her I believe they call it
- 00:19:25in meshed when you have like a very
- 00:19:26close relationship with your mother um
- 00:19:28uh and she suffered with uh depression
- 00:19:32and I didn't know you don't know as a
- 00:19:33kid your house is just your house you
- 00:19:35think it's normal right so if your mom's
- 00:19:37in a dressing gown when you get home
- 00:19:38from school and she hasn't got herself
- 00:19:40together you just think well that's what
- 00:19:41mom's are like so my whole childhood was
- 00:19:43aimed at making her laugh especially
- 00:19:45when
- 00:19:46driving fun thing to do make your mom
- 00:19:49laugh grab the steering wheel try and
- 00:19:51you know have you had to unpack that to
- 00:19:55stop that getting in the way whatever
- 00:19:58that driving is getting in the way of
- 00:19:59your adult life cuz I've thought about
- 00:20:01that a lot myself I think the things
- 00:20:02that have driven me here aren't
- 00:20:04necessarily the same things that are
- 00:20:07going to help me succeed in the next
- 00:20:08phase of life whether it's being a
- 00:20:09father like I know you you know you've
- 00:20:11you had a kid I think in
- 00:20:132019 um or whether it's being in a
- 00:20:15romantic relationship I've had to kind
- 00:20:17of really work hard to
- 00:20:18unpack things so that I can succeed in a
- 00:20:21new season listen I'm not a therapist
- 00:20:23but here's what I would say I think
- 00:20:25you're going to have to make a
- 00:20:26transition from looking at uh measurable
- 00:20:29metrics to immeasurable metrics I think
- 00:20:32you've got an amazing resume you've got
- 00:20:34an incredible CV of stuff you've done
- 00:20:37and achievements and stuff you can point
- 00:20:38at and and the the amount of views on
- 00:20:41the website and the money that you've
- 00:20:42made and the businesses You' started
- 00:20:44great and I think the immeasurable stuff
- 00:20:47is going to become much more important
- 00:20:49so George Mack has this kind of theory
- 00:20:51on we trade in life the measurable for
- 00:20:54the immeasurable so you trade work for I
- 00:20:58know time with parents can't really
- 00:20:59measure time with parents and it's kind
- 00:21:02of it's tough to lunch with your parents
- 00:21:05as opposed to the job and the thing and
- 00:21:06the work and that I'm busy I'm busy I'm
- 00:21:07busy and you only notice it when it goes
- 00:21:10to
- 00:21:12zero so mom dies and you go well I'll
- 00:21:14never see her again what wouldn't you
- 00:21:16give now for another meal another time
- 00:21:18another thing so you go trying to find
- 00:21:20that balance in life and I think
- 00:21:23parenting and being a father is about
- 00:21:27that isn't it it's about that
- 00:21:29it's about trading the the measurable
- 00:21:31for the immeasurable Warren Farrell
- 00:21:33tells a great story do you know Warren
- 00:21:35Farrell it's like the myth of male power
- 00:21:37I think a lot of his writing's been used
- 00:21:38by nefariously by people sort of that
- 00:21:41are a bit anyway he's a very interesting
- 00:21:43guy and he's he's very uh authentic um
- 00:21:47and he told this story I heard him tell
- 00:21:48this story he said uh said this guy came
- 00:21:50to me and very successful man you know
- 00:21:54head of head of a business that makes
- 00:21:56millions really doing very well and he
- 00:21:59said he was unhappy because he had
- 00:22:03worked all the way through his son's
- 00:22:07childhood and he didn't he hadn't bonded
- 00:22:09with his son because he'd just been away
- 00:22:11at
- 00:22:12work and he went went to see Warren
- 00:22:15farell and he's a you know psychiatrist
- 00:22:17or whatever and he said uh okay what are
- 00:22:19you going to do he said well I'm going
- 00:22:20to I'm going to give up my job for 5
- 00:22:23years and I'm going to be at home with
- 00:22:25my kid get I'm [ __ ] it I'm not doing any
- 00:22:29of that I'm going to be with my kid for
- 00:22:325 years just being that moment and he
- 00:22:35did it and he was very happy that he did
- 00:22:39it it was John
- 00:22:44lenon and no matter how important you
- 00:22:47think your job is you're not John
- 00:22:50lenon you know I'm sure he could have
- 00:22:52done great things in those 5 years but
- 00:22:55you think oh my God I'm so glad he did
- 00:22:56that I'm so glad
- 00:22:59cuz of what an incredible artist he was
- 00:23:00he'd given us so much and that he had
- 00:23:03those years for himself and that's for
- 00:23:05him I mean I I imagine he's kid I
- 00:23:07imagine Shawn Lennon's very glad he did
- 00:23:09that but he got that
- 00:23:11time and I imagine he didn't regret
- 00:23:15it and and his life was cut short
- 00:23:19tragically and you think it's even more
- 00:23:21powerful when you consider that that he
- 00:23:23didn't put it off he didn't go well I'll
- 00:23:25do that I'll do I I'll get to I'll get
- 00:23:27to a million subscribers and then I'll
- 00:23:29do that I'll sell a few more records and
- 00:23:31then one more tour and then I'll spend
- 00:23:32time with the family he he did it isn't
- 00:23:35that
- 00:23:36beautiful there's a lot of emotion in
- 00:23:38your face when you tell that story it's
- 00:23:40beautiful story isn't it I mean I could
- 00:23:43when you think about it you go that's
- 00:23:45kind of that's life isn't it and the and
- 00:23:48mortality I think is something we don't
- 00:23:50think about enough right I love that the
- 00:23:53Muslim uh uh phrase for death uh the
- 00:23:56certainty
- 00:23:59you know we're in this brief shaft of
- 00:24:02Light Between Two Oceans of
- 00:24:04Darkness everyone always thinks about
- 00:24:06the tail end right and thinks about what
- 00:24:07happens after you die Mark Twain had
- 00:24:10this great quote you know we we um he
- 00:24:12said uh he said I wasn't alive for
- 00:24:14billions of years before my birth and it
- 00:24:17didn't inconvenience me in the
- 00:24:21least but this brief shaft of Lights
- 00:24:23kind of it's magnificent isn't it I
- 00:24:26think so I think it can
- 00:24:29be this idea of um you know depression
- 00:24:33is essentially thinking about yourself
- 00:24:34too much you last time we spoke on the
- 00:24:36podcast you talked about I would say
- 00:24:39yeah sorry that that feels to me maybe a
- 00:24:41little bit too harsh because I think
- 00:24:43people suffer with depression and that's
- 00:24:45a it's a disease and it's incredibly
- 00:24:48serious and we think of suicide as being
- 00:24:52something that stands alone it's not
- 00:24:53it's a symptom of a disease called
- 00:24:55depression right so it's the it's the
- 00:24:57permanent solution to attemp problem you
- 00:24:59don't want to feel this way anymore but
- 00:25:02actually you don't want to feel nothing
- 00:25:05anymore uh you like to feel better so
- 00:25:07it's that thing of like I don't think we
- 00:25:09talk about it enough but I think that
- 00:25:10thing of you know thinking about
- 00:25:11yourself all the time I think just leads
- 00:25:14to a can lead to a Melancholy a sadness
- 00:25:17I think depression is maybe a slightly
- 00:25:18separate thing not to nickp but it feels
- 00:25:21like it feels like that's a disease yeah
- 00:25:23and there's also a lot of sadness in the
- 00:25:25world MH and you're lucky if you're sad
- 00:25:28because if you're if you're sad it's
- 00:25:30circumstantial and you can do something
- 00:25:31about it you know are you depressed
- 00:25:34because you have serotonin imbalance in
- 00:25:36your head and it's a heritable trait or
- 00:25:39are you sad because your life hasn't
- 00:25:41worked out the way you want it to work
- 00:25:42out well if that's the case the latter
- 00:25:44you're in luck because you can change
- 00:25:46that it does feel like there's a bit of
- 00:25:47a crisis going on within young men at
- 00:25:50the moment and I think your new show on
- 00:25:51Netflix shines a light on many of the
- 00:25:54difficulties that young men are facing I
- 00:25:56I was really excited to talk to about
- 00:25:57this particular topic cuz I've been
- 00:25:59trying to arrive at a position myself on
- 00:26:02why so many young men appear to be lost
- 00:26:04and suicidality has increased and
- 00:26:07there's you know these
- 00:26:09new masculine influences or masculine
- 00:26:13influencers that are really rounding up
- 00:26:15this cohort of young men who who are we
- 00:26:17talking about and Tate Andrew Tates of
- 00:26:18the world well Andrew T interesting
- 00:26:20isn't he because um who made the I think
- 00:26:22John meany made the observation Trump is
- 00:26:24a poor person's idea of what a rich
- 00:26:26person looks like yeah got gold Taps and
- 00:26:29I think s of Andrew Tate is like a
- 00:26:3114-year-old boy's idea of what
- 00:26:33masculinity might look like like it's
- 00:26:36really it's it's and and of course
- 00:26:38nature abor a vacuum and there's a real
- 00:26:41vacuum for um Elders like we now we
- 00:26:45don't learn how to shave from our
- 00:26:46fathers it's a YouTube video and so you
- 00:26:49lose something in that in that bonding
- 00:26:52so there's a big bit in the new show
- 00:26:54where I give a young guy an audience
- 00:26:55member a pretty tough time like we have
- 00:26:58the talk and I give them advice on how
- 00:27:02to uh be with a woman and it's I'm not
- 00:27:06wrong about anything it's really funny
- 00:27:08and it's really rude but I'm not wrong
- 00:27:10about stuff it's like it's about consent
- 00:27:12and it's it's I think it's really it's
- 00:27:14really good because it's I've sugared
- 00:27:15the pill of the message because people
- 00:27:17don't want to talk about it people go
- 00:27:18it's obvious what consent is yeah not to
- 00:27:2017-year-old boys or girls it's like
- 00:27:23actually what what does that look like
- 00:27:24and how should that be so it's uh yeah
- 00:27:26it's a it's a really fun routine really
- 00:27:28fun routine to perform and to write what
- 00:27:30is it to be a man these days cuz it's
- 00:27:31quite confusing in ter even the
- 00:27:33conversation around like chivalry and
- 00:27:35understanding you know well people talk
- 00:27:37about toxic masculinity and easy fix be
- 00:27:40a gentleman be a
- 00:27:42mench that's it this is done be a
- 00:27:45gentleman be a mench you know a
- 00:27:47gentleman is never rude by
- 00:27:49accident it's Christopher Hitchin line
- 00:27:52great I I don't know I mean my thing
- 00:27:54about young men today if I was going to
- 00:27:55give young men advice it would be
- 00:27:59get the right drugs and the real thing
- 00:28:03right in real life live in real life
- 00:28:06right so why young men are obsessed by
- 00:28:08video games right obsessed they're
- 00:28:10spending hours and hours and hours
- 00:28:11online playing video games why well
- 00:28:14that's a proxy for career right video
- 00:28:16games you think about the levels of
- 00:28:18video games and what people do on video
- 00:28:19games it's that's a proxy that's like a
- 00:28:22uh it's a it's a substitute for the
- 00:28:23career that they're not having and then
- 00:28:25they spend a lot of time you know
- 00:28:27fapping to to Pornhub or uPorn or
- 00:28:31whatever and that's a proxy for sex and
- 00:28:36my thing would be George Orwell wasn't
- 00:28:40right our power won't be taken away from
- 00:28:42us by some authoritarian master we're
- 00:28:45going to give it away for cheap dopamine
- 00:28:48and the cheap dopamine of video games
- 00:28:50and online porn and living online is is
- 00:28:55is getting in the way of real life so
- 00:28:57it's risk
- 00:28:58right that's that's what we're not
- 00:29:00allowing young people to do because we
- 00:29:02we're saying to young people you can't
- 00:29:04take risks in real life we're we're
- 00:29:06helicopter parenting we're not giving
- 00:29:08them the freedom how much Freedom should
- 00:29:09you give a kid as much as they can cope
- 00:29:12with right 14year olds used to be
- 00:29:14babysitters they now need
- 00:29:17babysitters that's not good right so you
- 00:29:19should allow them more freedom in in the
- 00:29:21real world because otherwise the only
- 00:29:24place they get freedom is
- 00:29:26online and no freedom in the real world
- 00:29:28you're not allowed to go to the park and
- 00:29:29hang out but you're allowed to do
- 00:29:31whatever you want online well that's a
- 00:29:33that feels like a very bad social
- 00:29:35experiment that feels like a bad
- 00:29:38idea yeah it feels like we've
- 00:29:41inverted um Ma you know masloff this P
- 00:29:44pyramid hierarchy of needs and you go
- 00:29:48well food and shelter and warmth and all
- 00:29:50the we've got all the bottom stuff
- 00:29:52worked out in our society right we we
- 00:29:53kind of can't see it we're not grateful
- 00:29:55for that because we can't see the hot
- 00:29:57shower the Hot Shot we can't see the
- 00:29:58third world and we can't see the people
- 00:30:00in the past having a tougher time than
- 00:30:01us so we take it for granted but we
- 00:30:03worked out that stuff they hadn't worked
- 00:30:05that stuff out 200 years ago but they
- 00:30:08had the top of the pyramid sorted
- 00:30:10everyone knew who they were they had
- 00:30:11their identity and they knew what their
- 00:30:13purpose was everyone knew who they were
- 00:30:17what they were about and they were
- 00:30:18connected to to the others in the in the
- 00:30:21group and now we're kind of free
- 00:30:22floating individuals we kind of worship
- 00:30:24the individual as if as if we can
- 00:30:27survive as
- 00:30:28individuals I always think of that thing
- 00:30:30of like there's no such thing as a
- 00:30:33baby there's a baby in a mother there's
- 00:30:36a baby and a father baby and an auntie
- 00:30:38but there's no such thing as a baby
- 00:30:40because a baby on its own isn't anything
- 00:30:41it's it's dead it's you it needs taken
- 00:30:44care of we're all still babies we all
- 00:30:48need the
- 00:30:49connections you you yourself yeah sure
- 00:30:51there's there's a lot of yourself that's
- 00:30:53that's within you but a lot of it is out
- 00:30:55in the world it's connected to other
- 00:30:57people and it kind of it mediates who
- 00:30:59you think you are and that's you know
- 00:31:01that's that's slightly missing from
- 00:31:03society where you kind of live online
- 00:31:05and you're kind of a self-authored thing
- 00:31:07you're just on on the computer on the
- 00:31:09screen and you're not connected and
- 00:31:10you're not taking risks taking risks is
- 00:31:13really
- 00:31:14important is this in part due to the
- 00:31:16rise in atheism and agnosticism I think
- 00:31:18we we both me and you lost our sort of
- 00:31:21religious Faith around the same age
- 00:31:23think sort of early mid mid mid2 I think
- 00:31:26it's a weird thing where you go you can
- 00:31:28lose your I I certainly don't believe in
- 00:31:30the stories there's two types of fools
- 00:31:31right there's people that take religion
- 00:31:33literally and there's people that think
- 00:31:35it has no
- 00:31:36value okay both both idiots for
- 00:31:39different reasons like it works as a
- 00:31:42thing religion I quite I miss it because
- 00:31:45the reason the ceremony Works isn't
- 00:31:46because God's pleased it's because the
- 00:31:48people came together and so I think we
- 00:31:50look for things that that are um proxies
- 00:31:52for religion and sometimes that's could
- 00:31:56football it could be Environ ISM you
- 00:31:58know because you go well I need
- 00:32:00something I need purpose in my life I
- 00:32:01need to feel like I'm I'm adding value
- 00:32:04and what a great cause I'm going to save
- 00:32:06the planet it's a big thing to think
- 00:32:08about it's got a religiosity to it but I
- 00:32:10don't think that's the you know I don't
- 00:32:12think that's necessarily the answer you
- 00:32:14know some people do it with politics
- 00:32:15they think politics is going to is going
- 00:32:17to be Heaven they're going to they're
- 00:32:19going to come up with some perfect
- 00:32:20system I think you're putting too much
- 00:32:23pressure on politics first time I've
- 00:32:25ever said this actually but when you
- 00:32:27just said I I think Miss religion I
- 00:32:28think I miss religion it's nice wasn't
- 00:32:30it it's a lovely thought as well when
- 00:32:32you lose someone that you love very much
- 00:32:34it's a lovely thought I mean Heaven is
- 00:32:36just it's a lovely thought and I think
- 00:32:38in a way in our culture Fame and Fortune
- 00:32:41has replaced
- 00:32:42Heaven it's the land of milk and honey
- 00:32:46and where you can feel like you're um uh
- 00:32:49everything's okay everything's taken
- 00:32:51care of um and it is
- 00:32:54good but it's it's not it's not heaven I
- 00:32:57don't believe in an afterlife I believe
- 00:32:59in a next
- 00:33:01life so I don't think anything happens
- 00:33:03after you die but I think you can have a
- 00:33:04next life a very different life so it's
- 00:33:07interesting you're at this point of your
- 00:33:09your life when you're thinking about
- 00:33:10well we might start a family it's a
- 00:33:12whole other life it's a whole other
- 00:33:15you'll hardly recognize yourself you and
- 00:33:17your partner will be saying what did we
- 00:33:18do what did we do all day now we're not
- 00:33:21a Peppa Pig World or wherever you find
- 00:33:24yourselves it's really just struck me
- 00:33:26that I do kind of Miss religion but it
- 00:33:27feels like when I lost my religion I put
- 00:33:29a backpack on a backpack full of weights
- 00:33:32on and I think that's what the
- 00:33:33responsibility and individualism is I
- 00:33:35mean for me the the loss of religion was
- 00:33:37A Rush of Blood to the Head it was like
- 00:33:39oh I I this is my life and I need to
- 00:33:42make good on this and I need to live it
- 00:33:45the tragedy is most people don't have
- 00:33:47that kind of they don't get to kind of
- 00:33:49follow their their their dream when you
- 00:33:52were 28 years old your mother died who
- 00:33:53had a you know a profound influence on
- 00:33:55you for many reasons but also has very
- 00:33:57much the inspiration or at least the
- 00:33:59singular biggest causal factor of your
- 00:34:01career when I read through your story
- 00:34:03even more recently you've undergone
- 00:34:05quite a lot of grief even the loss of
- 00:34:07your dog I believe um which had a pretty
- 00:34:10large impact on you I think grief is
- 00:34:12cumulative so every time you lose
- 00:34:14someone or something uh and and actually
- 00:34:17losing a pet can be it's a weird thing
- 00:34:18because people lose pets and it's like I
- 00:34:20don't know the other people in the
- 00:34:21office can be about H okay oh well what
- 00:34:23we doing for lunch it's like can be a
- 00:34:25really affecting thing because it's not
- 00:34:27just just everyone you've lost and you
- 00:34:29think about mortality but you think
- 00:34:31about your own mortality and you think
- 00:34:33about you know you kind of think about
- 00:34:35it takes you to a very melancholy place
- 00:34:37of like at some point you got to say
- 00:34:39goodbye and I guess you think about
- 00:34:41those things of going what are the you
- 00:34:43know in life as we were talking about
- 00:34:45the the the great you can have great a
- 00:34:47great resume great CV loads of stuff on
- 00:34:50it but what are people going to say at
- 00:34:53your eulogy that's the important thing
- 00:34:56that's the stuff that really matters
- 00:34:58and it's a very different it's again
- 00:35:00it's the it's the it's a hidden metric
- 00:35:03of what people going to say at your your
- 00:35:05funeral what what are people going to
- 00:35:07say when you when you
- 00:35:08pass uh I don't know I think grief's
- 00:35:11it's a it's very interesting it's very
- 00:35:13it is that thing of it you know kind of
- 00:35:14comes in waves and you think about it
- 00:35:16for a long time and then it and then it
- 00:35:18hits you how have you dealt with grief
- 00:35:20in your
- 00:35:21life I mean I I I think when my uh I
- 00:35:25don't know I think I think I'm slightly
- 00:35:28guilty of you know suppressing it a
- 00:35:30little bit I think when uh I think when
- 00:35:32Shawn lock died I was very
- 00:35:35uh very upset by it and you just go to
- 00:35:39work you just kind of go well I'll I'll
- 00:35:41put myself in this joyful place of
- 00:35:43laughter and maybe not have to think
- 00:35:45about it as much but it's
- 00:35:47uh yeah it's you know they gone forever
- 00:35:51and there was something really amazing
- 00:35:52about when sha died because people
- 00:35:54shared so much online so you had
- 00:35:59these clips of like I remember the day I
- 00:36:02remember being at home and and getting
- 00:36:04the news and laughing and crying kind of
- 00:36:07real kind of um cognitive dissonance of
- 00:36:10like feeling really upset and then they
- 00:36:11played just all the funniest clips of
- 00:36:14Sean like people just sending me clips
- 00:36:16clips clips and he was just so funny and
- 00:36:20that Joy is kind of there it's it's it's
- 00:36:24really lovely it's really like for all
- 00:36:26of social media ills on that day my God
- 00:36:30it made a
- 00:36:32difference what did it make you realize
- 00:36:34about both sha and life when he
- 00:36:37passed I I don't know whether there's
- 00:36:39any great Revelation in it I think it's
- 00:36:42that thing of just you know enjoy you
- 00:36:44know enjoy your time enjoy the enjoy
- 00:36:47this because it's fleeting I mean all
- 00:36:51too fleeting for for Sean who's very
- 00:36:52young uh but it's you know I think that
- 00:36:55that thing of
- 00:37:02you know family and and you know
- 00:37:04spending time with the people that you
- 00:37:05love and and doing what you love I think
- 00:37:07prioritizing that it's if you want to
- 00:37:09meet someone high agency meet someone
- 00:37:12that's got six months to live I'd say
- 00:37:14their tolerance for [ __ ] is is about
- 00:37:16as low as it
- 00:37:18gets I think living your life like that
- 00:37:20is not a bad idea if really shows you
- 00:37:22what your priorities would be someone
- 00:37:23said you had six months to live well
- 00:37:24what would you
- 00:37:25do that's how what you should be doing
- 00:37:29anyway yeah that's really what I'm what
- 00:37:31I'm getting at is there's something that
- 00:37:33facing our own mortality teaches us um
- 00:37:36but unfortunately we have to we often
- 00:37:38learn that when we we haven't got a lot
- 00:37:39of time to implement it and sometimes
- 00:37:41when we when someone close to us passes
- 00:37:44away we can vicariously learn that
- 00:37:45message about our immortality and what
- 00:37:48really what our priority should be and
- 00:37:49really how we should be living our life
- 00:37:50and really What mattered the most and I
- 00:37:53imagine losing someone that was as close
- 00:37:55to you as Sha was sends you some kind of
- 00:37:58message about priorities and life and
- 00:38:02gratitude and all these things we talked
- 00:38:04about
- 00:38:05yeah I think it's yeah I think gr
- 00:38:07gratitude's a big part of it as well
- 00:38:09that idea of kind of going wow that was
- 00:38:11that was pretty
- 00:38:14special you you were I might grab I
- 00:38:17might grab another coffee can I grab the
- 00:38:18rest of my coffee yeah yeah is that all
- 00:38:19right am I allowed yeah he said breaking
- 00:38:22with format I might shuffle my notes as
- 00:38:24well I'm going to shuffle my notes
- 00:38:28this is a business podcast or at least
- 00:38:30that's how it started and is it have You
- 00:38:33Have you listened back because I don't
- 00:38:35think it is I'll be honest with you it's
- 00:38:38it's not this is but business is life
- 00:38:41you know what I mean and they're the
- 00:38:42same thing the communication mental
- 00:38:44health striving progress people
- 00:38:46relationships it's all business at the
- 00:38:48end of the day it I mean you are re I
- 00:38:51mean this I mean I know it's still cool
- 00:38:54diary the CEO but re I don't think
- 00:38:56you've talked about business on this for
- 00:38:58like 3 years and even then it was like a
- 00:39:01passing so when you started your
- 00:39:02business how did that make you feel it's
- 00:39:05this isn't you're an old hippie is what
- 00:39:07you are you love this is a great podcast
- 00:39:09but this is a storytelling podcast so
- 00:39:12many of so many entrepreneurs are old
- 00:39:14hippies I think of Steve Jobs he was an
- 00:39:15Old Hippie yeah you know and it's
- 00:39:18interesting I think that thing of like
- 00:39:20uh what does business teach people like
- 00:39:21we're talking about like young men and
- 00:39:23and kind of there's a bit of a crisis
- 00:39:25going on out there uh with young men and
- 00:39:27and young women are not having an easy
- 00:39:28time either but it's that thing of like
- 00:39:31the the suicide rate whatever um is
- 00:39:33horrific with young men and you go well
- 00:39:36what's going on and it's agency I don't
- 00:39:38think we're giving young people enough
- 00:39:40agency so they don't feel like they have
- 00:39:41they have control and really I think the
- 00:39:44thing of like serial entrepreneurs like
- 00:39:47no one ever seems to hit on their first
- 00:39:48company but it's the second and third
- 00:39:50and fourth and but they just keep going
- 00:39:52they go well I'm never going to work for
- 00:39:53anyone I'm going to do it myself that's
- 00:39:55kind of I don't think we're teaching
- 00:39:56enough of that uh it's it's a weird
- 00:39:58thing CU like teaching someone to be a
- 00:40:00self-starter is kind of a contradiction
- 00:40:02in terms but it's it it kind of works
- 00:40:05right there's I think we're teaching the
- 00:40:06wrong things I've Got a Theory I think
- 00:40:08I'm going to start teaching
- 00:40:10comedy and and okay so comedy is very
- 00:40:14new it really you could trace its roots
- 00:40:16back to George Carlin and Richard PRI in
- 00:40:18the early 70s as like one guy on stage
- 00:40:21in a big theater and he's selling
- 00:40:22tickets and people are just seeing him
- 00:40:24right you can trace it back to the dawn
- 00:40:26of time but really the modern standup
- 00:40:29early '70s is a good good starting point
- 00:40:32right so it's a very new medium compared
- 00:40:33to music and film right it's very new so
- 00:40:35I sort of view George Carlin and uh
- 00:40:38Richard PR they're John the Baptist
- 00:40:40right and and Jesus isn't here yet and
- 00:40:43it's this new evolving medium and unlike
- 00:40:46music we don't have a language yet so we
- 00:40:49need a language of like okay what are
- 00:40:51the joke types and how could you how do
- 00:40:52you how do you write that down how do
- 00:40:53you configure it there's too much
- 00:40:55magical thinking around stand-up comedy
- 00:40:58you know the idea that I I just I just
- 00:41:00came up with it it's just yeah I just
- 00:41:03but actually learning how jokes work and
- 00:41:05uh systematizing and uh analyzing them I
- 00:41:08think really helps so I've been working
- 00:41:10on a book with um uh Amanda Baker who
- 00:41:12helped me on my first book uh we've been
- 00:41:14working on a thing together for the last
- 00:41:15couple of years trying to teach comedy
- 00:41:17and I think I think there's a real
- 00:41:19benefit to it because if you think about
- 00:41:20music in schools right we'd all argue
- 00:41:22learning music's great right it's great
- 00:41:24idea teach kid the piano grade three
- 00:41:27learn something about music and they'll
- 00:41:28appreciate music much more in life I
- 00:41:30think comedy is much more relevant right
- 00:41:31what does comedy teach you right it
- 00:41:32teaches you you would you learn to kind
- 00:41:34of you find your self and you find your
- 00:41:37voice and you learn to communicate your
- 00:41:38ideas and to order them and write them
- 00:41:40down and uh to communicate it's very
- 00:41:44valuable like the great tragedy of life
- 00:41:46is most people live and die and never
- 00:41:49hear their own
- 00:41:51voice everybody wants to be a better
- 00:41:53speaker a better Communicator you know
- 00:41:55it's funny cuz I sat with a guy called
- 00:41:57um Julian treasure who has I think Ted
- 00:42:00Talk on communication and speaking that
- 00:42:02did I don't know 30 40 million views and
- 00:42:05he said I also did a Ted Talk on
- 00:42:06listening ick can no one listen to it
- 00:42:08everyone listen to the talk about being
- 00:42:10a better
- 00:42:12speaker that's that's that's pretty
- 00:42:14funny uh the uh yeah know I could
- 00:42:16imagine that you as a as a guy that's
- 00:42:18touring the world 300 days a year you
- 00:42:20must have really been able to break down
- 00:42:22the science of communication and being a
- 00:42:24good speaker that's transferable to
- 00:42:26business public speaking life sales
- 00:42:29Etc what would what advice would you
- 00:42:31give me on how to be a better speaker
- 00:42:35Communicator all right
- 00:42:37okay 92 beats a
- 00:42:39minute what does that mean speak at 92
- 00:42:42beats a minute that's there you go I
- 00:42:45mean there's kind of a science behind it
- 00:42:47and I've looked into it but most great
- 00:42:49public speakers sort of speak in a
- 00:42:50rhythm but it doesn't matter how fast
- 00:42:52they're speaking but they're kind of
- 00:42:53hitting 92 beats a minute so I tend to
- 00:42:57listen to a playlist of songs that are
- 00:42:58all 92 beats a minute before going on
- 00:43:00stage I know that sounds like Madness
- 00:43:03you know and it's it may be it is but I
- 00:43:06think there's something about that
- 00:43:07Rhythm that just the audience that kind
- 00:43:10of um the proximal speed of cognition
- 00:43:13that idea everyone kind of gets into
- 00:43:14that Rhythm and when you look at the
- 00:43:17great public speakers they all seem to
- 00:43:19be hitting that that rhythm of 92 beats
- 00:43:21a minute do you think Trump's a good
- 00:43:22public speaker yeah he's an excellent
- 00:43:24public speaker of course I don't know
- 00:43:27why people would have a problem
- 00:43:29admitting that it's I mean he's kind of
- 00:43:31and he's freestyling it's like there's
- 00:43:33nothing planned this is this is
- 00:43:35insane um yeah it's uh because he really
- 00:43:39leads into sort of exaggerated
- 00:43:42storytelling and emotion much more than
- 00:43:44facts and figures than most politicians
- 00:43:47I mean it's a it's you know there's a
- 00:43:50theory that this is all Gwen Stefani's
- 00:43:52fault what do you mean okay so Donald
- 00:43:55Trump was pres was hosting the
- 00:43:57Apprentice uh and Gwen Stefani was on uh
- 00:44:01America's Got Talent or one of the
- 00:44:03singing shows maybe it was fact anyone
- 00:44:05one of those big singing shows he found
- 00:44:07out she was getting paid more than him
- 00:44:10and so he wanted to build his relevance
- 00:44:13right so he decided Well I know I'll run
- 00:44:16for president I'll become incredibly
- 00:44:18relevant for like three months he's a
- 00:44:21contender he's whatever and then you
- 00:44:23drop out the race no problem at all so
- 00:44:24he hires all those people in Plaza and
- 00:44:27he comes down the gold escalator and he
- 00:44:29does the speech and great okay nothing
- 00:44:32he then goes and there's footage of this
- 00:44:34he then goes and
- 00:44:35does the first make America great again
- 00:44:38rally and they've got foot job him
- 00:44:40walking up the steps and he sees like
- 00:44:4210,000 people all
- 00:44:45chanting and there's the
- 00:44:48realization oh oh this could be
- 00:44:52real it's kind of a yeah I think that's
- 00:44:55I think that's stani did it get
- 00:44:59her I was the reason I was I was talking
- 00:45:01about business is because because this
- 00:45:04is don't have a CEO it's a podcast about
- 00:45:06business is is because you taught me
- 00:45:08last time sort of indirectly about
- 00:45:11something that I've now developed and I
- 00:45:13call myself no man's land which is that
- 00:45:15moment when you make a decision to leave
- 00:45:17the comfort and security of your
- 00:45:19identity your professional um you know
- 00:45:22Endeavor what whatever it is you were
- 00:45:24working in marketing and then like I
- 00:45:25always reference how objectively insane
- 00:45:28it was for you to leave that and go and
- 00:45:30become a comedian and I've I've dubbed
- 00:45:32that no man's land that sort of six to
- 00:45:3512 months of looking a bit stupid of
- 00:45:38losing your friends losing you know I
- 00:45:40refer to these five buckets in life you
- 00:45:41have your knowledge skills your network
- 00:45:44your resources and your reputation and
- 00:45:46when you go into No Man's Land you fill
- 00:45:48the first two buckets of your Knowledge
- 00:45:49and Skills but you empty the last three
- 00:45:51you lose your network you lose your
- 00:45:52resources often you lose your reputation
- 00:45:54whatever that was at the time but you
- 00:45:56fill these two buckets you made that for
- 00:45:58whatever reason decision to leave a
- 00:46:01normal life and go and tell jokes for no
- 00:46:05money some people for some reason and
- 00:46:07I've seen consistently on this podcast
- 00:46:09like Darren Brown who was had a great
- 00:46:11professional life ahead of him and
- 00:46:12decided to go do card tricks on tables
- 00:46:14in Bristol for 10 years I what is it
- 00:46:17about these people that's making them I
- 00:46:19think they've had the realization right
- 00:46:21they've they've had the confucious
- 00:46:22moment every man has two lives and he
- 00:46:25second begins when he realizes is he
- 00:46:27only has
- 00:46:28one and the good is the enemy of the
- 00:46:33best cuz you know when people are on
- 00:46:35podcast like this that moment looks like
- 00:46:38bravery but I I wonder if to you and
- 00:46:42when you quit your sort of marketing job
- 00:46:44no there's plenty of 4:00 in the morning
- 00:46:46ah what have I done this seems this
- 00:46:49seems crazy especially when you really
- 00:46:51kind of when you break because when you
- 00:46:52leave as well you don't have like an
- 00:46:54hour of great stuff of like that you've
- 00:46:57written you've got like 20 minutes of
- 00:46:59stuff that you kind of look back on and
- 00:47:00go it's kind of joke shaped there's
- 00:47:02something there but really it's it's
- 00:47:05insane yeah but I think that's great I
- 00:47:08think failure is one of the great gifts
- 00:47:10of standup
- 00:47:12comedy you you sort of make friends with
- 00:47:14failure as a standup because you write
- 00:47:16so many things that don't work you write
- 00:47:18so many jokes that you think oh this is
- 00:47:19going to be great and then you tell it
- 00:47:20and the audience go no that isn't
- 00:47:21anything guess again and that idea of
- 00:47:25going yeah failure failure is kind of
- 00:47:27frowned upon in our society we don't let
- 00:47:28kids fail we don't let kids lose at
- 00:47:31sports we don't let you know that it
- 00:47:34it's it's really silly because you're
- 00:47:35sort of teaching them if if everyone's a
- 00:47:37winner then you don't learn how to lose
- 00:47:40and to learn how to lose gracefully is
- 00:47:44that's a great skill to have isn't it
- 00:47:47and and you kind of you know it checks
- 00:47:49your ego and you you some not everything
- 00:47:52in life is going to work out for you and
- 00:47:54it's okay so you you test it and it's a
- 00:47:56good test of how much you want something
- 00:47:58you go and have you have a terrible gig
- 00:47:59and well I'm never doing that again or
- 00:48:01you have a terrible gig and go well you
- 00:48:03know you you lose or you
- 00:48:06learn you develop your relationship with
- 00:48:09no I've someone said this to me the
- 00:48:11other day and it really stuck with me
- 00:48:12that you need you know I worked in Telly
- 00:48:14celles for a couple of years and it
- 00:48:15really helped me develop my relationship
- 00:48:17with the answer no and so now in life I
- 00:48:20I think I have a much healthier
- 00:48:21relationship with the word no because
- 00:48:23for me in call in it's that the law of
- 00:48:26averag is where in the call center all
- 00:48:28it meant was that I was one step closer
- 00:48:30to getting the yes so I'd get you know
- 00:48:32you get loads of NOS in a row and you
- 00:48:33sit there and go [ __ ] know this next
- 00:48:34guy is going to buy these [ __ ] double
- 00:48:36glazing and I think at at 16 years old I
- 00:48:38developed that relationship with no
- 00:48:39which me meant in my head that was
- 00:48:41getting me closer to a positive outcome
- 00:48:43lots of kids don't have that these these
- 00:48:44days because we Shield them from no no
- 00:48:47is you know seen as a self-esteem hit
- 00:48:49for me it was building some kind of
- 00:48:50muscle in me I don't but self-esteem on
- 00:48:53its own like confidence without
- 00:48:56confidence is
- 00:48:58madness it's Madness you you have to
- 00:49:00give the world irrefutable proof you are
- 00:49:03who you say you are right so you you
- 00:49:06release a comedy special or whatever you
- 00:49:07go yeah that's me that's what I do the
- 00:49:09new tour that's me that's what I do it's
- 00:49:11it's irrefutable evidence right I am who
- 00:49:13I say I am and I think that idea of
- 00:49:15going taking away the the negatives you
- 00:49:18can't just I mean I mean you can but
- 00:49:20then I think we're I think it's very
- 00:49:21cruel I think we're being kind on the
- 00:49:24wrong time scale to people
- 00:49:27if you're kind you want to be kind to
- 00:49:29your kids right I want to be kind to my
- 00:49:30kids what do my kids want well they want
- 00:49:32McDonald's and they want ice cream and
- 00:49:33they want to watch TV and play video
- 00:49:34games well okay Downstream are some fat
- 00:49:38stupid
- 00:49:39kids who wants fat stupid kids no one so
- 00:49:43you have to be kind to their potential
- 00:49:46to who they're going to be right and
- 00:49:48that involves you know broccoli and
- 00:49:50homework there boring going on a walk
- 00:49:54doing some exercise
- 00:49:57okay but but you're being kind later and
- 00:50:00I think that it's very easy to see that
- 00:50:01when you're a parent uh and it's hard to
- 00:50:04see that with an 18-year-old that's
- 00:50:07maybe struggling TI to your point about
- 00:50:09being kind to you in 24 hours I guess
- 00:50:13it's a similar thing right like like
- 00:50:15seeing the potential in in someone
- 00:50:17seeing the potential in yourself in a
- 00:50:19child in anyone but in yourself that's
- 00:50:21kind of the thing of going well you
- 00:50:22could be incredible in 20 years time cuz
- 00:50:25really that thing of like
- 00:50:27it's it's the um I suppose what's the
- 00:50:30the opposite of gratitude it's
- 00:50:34resentment and who had the Great Line
- 00:50:36nature had the great line on resentment
- 00:50:39he said if you think someone's ruined
- 00:50:40your life you're
- 00:50:42right it's
- 00:50:45you like that's a mic drop isn't it
- 00:50:48that's such a great line and you know
- 00:50:51gratitude is the cure for that there's a
- 00:50:53there's a great definition of
- 00:50:55entitlement uh uh which is where you are
- 00:50:59now and where you want to be if you want
- 00:51:01to do something about it that's
- 00:51:04ambition where you are now where you
- 00:51:06want to be if you think that's someone
- 00:51:07else's
- 00:51:08problem that's
- 00:51:11entitlement and I think if we're
- 00:51:14honest there's always a little bit of
- 00:51:16that going on like there's a lot of
- 00:51:17people in my industry that would you
- 00:51:20know that their career isn't where they
- 00:51:21think it should be and ah I need to get
- 00:51:23a new
- 00:51:25agent really you think that might be the
- 00:51:28problem remember there's a great story
- 00:51:30of uh I wasn't there but uh David tell
- 00:51:33is sort of the comedians comedian is
- 00:51:36works out in New York late night uh he's
- 00:51:39I mean really one of the greats one of
- 00:51:40the one of the most influential voices
- 00:51:42in comedy and these guys backstage were
- 00:51:44like moaning about their
- 00:51:46management and he's kind of overhearing
- 00:51:48this conversation it's going on for far
- 00:51:49too long and he just he oh be funnier
- 00:51:57it's often very simple that stoic thing
- 00:51:59of going what's the thing you meant to
- 00:52:01be doing just do that I'm not sure I
- 00:52:04approve of portfolio sort of uh working
- 00:52:08the idea of having lots of different
- 00:52:09things that you do because
- 00:52:11really you going to do comedy part-time
- 00:52:14what you're going to do half comedy and
- 00:52:16half novel writing oh so you're going to
- 00:52:20compete I'm doing it 100% of the time
- 00:52:22and you think you can compete 50% of the
- 00:52:24time all the best let's see how you do
- 00:52:28you're never going to get to the top of
- 00:52:29the pyramid doing it 50% of the time
- 00:52:31right yeah and there'll probably be a
- 00:52:33lot of resentment as you say an
- 00:52:34entitlement be you know be be a
- 00:52:37specialist it's one of the favorite
- 00:52:39parts of my previous conversation that I
- 00:52:41had with you where you you talk about
- 00:52:42the world doesn't need more people that
- 00:52:43are [ __ ] in physics and it really helped
- 00:52:45me understand a lot of things I also
- 00:52:46then shortly after Met Richard Branson
- 00:52:48in New York and he's the most you know
- 00:52:50incredible delegator he's not trying to
- 00:52:52get good at things that he's not good at
- 00:52:54he's built his whole business and life
- 00:52:55on realizing what he's [ __ ] at and just
- 00:52:58handing that over to other people
- 00:52:59whereas so many people are fighting to
- 00:53:01polish something that they're not so
- 00:53:03good at yeah I think knowing who you are
- 00:53:05is quite important for that isn't it
- 00:53:07it's like being honest about it like
- 00:53:08well I'm not good at that but I can do
- 00:53:10this it's hard to know who you are
- 00:53:11though clouded you want to be yeah it's
- 00:53:14well yeah it's it's also that thing of
- 00:53:16uh it takes a bit of
- 00:53:18time I'm not sure whether we're not kind
- 00:53:19of rushing people on that a little
- 00:53:22bit I'm i i s often think of like the
- 00:53:25listeners to this show right so like
- 00:53:28certainly the younger ones of kind of
- 00:53:30going well do I need to know now who I
- 00:53:32am and what I want to do exactly it's no
- 00:53:35you could you know try a few different
- 00:53:36things see what you like because I think
- 00:53:38that thing when you get into the stream
- 00:53:39that you're meant to be in it just feels
- 00:53:41very easy it's like you're not you're
- 00:53:43not you know swimming against the tide
- 00:53:45just feels like it's carrying you
- 00:53:47along I love what I do now but I often
- 00:53:51question whether I should go be like a
- 00:53:52DJ or do musical theater or something
- 00:53:55what me do what I can answer that
- 00:53:57question for you that's a bit of luck no
- 00:54:00no you [ __ ]
- 00:54:01shouldn't what what you think you maybe
- 00:54:04should do musical theater who what are
- 00:54:09you having a panic attack what what are
- 00:54:11you talking
- 00:54:13about what would make you think that I I
- 00:54:16bought some DJ equipment and I spent
- 00:54:17about a year learning and I thought I
- 00:54:18[ __ ] love doing this great you've got
- 00:54:22hobby you've got a hobby not
- 00:54:24everything's a business I know it's di
- 00:54:26over CEO and everything you do you think
- 00:54:28oh maybe we can make a few quid out of
- 00:54:29this no stop it what are you talking
- 00:54:33about you know who's you know who's
- 00:54:35being a DJ right now there's someone
- 00:54:37right now in their bedroom they've been
- 00:54:39there for 12 hours already today and
- 00:54:41they're just loving it and they're
- 00:54:43putting everything into it they're
- 00:54:45putting the work you put into the
- 00:54:46podcast into
- 00:54:48DJing let them have that it's nice to
- 00:54:51have stuff where you're in a flow state
- 00:54:52in life and for some people that's work
- 00:54:54and for some people that's a hobby and
- 00:54:56and some some of us are very lucky and
- 00:54:58we get to do it in a few different
- 00:54:59things so I play a little bit
- 00:55:02tennis I don't think I'm going to get
- 00:55:04the wild card at Wimbledon this year
- 00:55:06there I've given up on that it's just a
- 00:55:09hobby and listen I mean you might be the
- 00:55:11next Calvin Harris I might be steering
- 00:55:12you in the wrong direction you might be
- 00:55:14incredible but stop it stop it just do
- 00:55:17this this is great this is
- 00:55:20enough it's is lovely you're talking to
- 00:55:22the most interesting people I mean
- 00:55:23present company accepted but you you
- 00:55:24know you speak to all these different
- 00:55:26people from different worlds and it's
- 00:55:28it's this is enough right how do you
- 00:55:31know if it isn't enough well I want to
- 00:55:34talk to you about quitting because
- 00:55:35there's going to be a cohort of people
- 00:55:36that listen to them I meet them I met a
- 00:55:37lot of them last night at a show I was
- 00:55:38doing and they are working in finance
- 00:55:40and they'll tell me their job then
- 00:55:42they'll show me their hobby on their
- 00:55:43phone and their face lights up when they
- 00:55:45show me their I don't know their Pap and
- 00:55:47mashe business or whatever it is on
- 00:55:49their phone what's the great line it's
- 00:55:50the uh you know if you if you want to
- 00:55:51find out what you should do in
- 00:55:55life what do you think about all the
- 00:55:57time that's your
- 00:55:58[Music]
- 00:56:00god what working in the city with a
- 00:56:02shirt and tie on at JP Morgan or
- 00:56:03something no but no one's thinking about
- 00:56:05that all the time you know so what do
- 00:56:07you what do you think about all the time
- 00:56:08what are you what are you engaged in all
- 00:56:10the time like if it's if it's football
- 00:56:11if you're absolutely obsessed by
- 00:56:12football well something in that industry
- 00:56:14is going to be the job for you because
- 00:56:16you're obsessed by that and that's what
- 00:56:17you think about all the time so the um
- 00:56:19the idea of quitting quitting is quite
- 00:56:22interesting
- 00:56:23because oh the things that you won't do
- 00:56:26like if you're going to have an
- 00:56:28interesting life you can't have all the
- 00:56:31other interesting lives you would have
- 00:56:33had right so there's all the
- 00:56:34counterfactuals of the different sliding
- 00:56:36doors that you could have done like well
- 00:56:39you know if you're going to be an
- 00:56:40Olympian you're going to have to give up
- 00:56:42an awful lot of stuff like you're not
- 00:56:44really going to have a childhood in the
- 00:56:45traditional sense but you're going to be
- 00:56:47an Olympian great and if you if you're
- 00:56:50going to be an academic then you're
- 00:56:52probably not going to be having to go to
- 00:56:54as many parties okay well that's you
- 00:56:56know there's there's no Solutions only
- 00:56:58trade-offs you know Thomas S isn't
- 00:57:01it you have to make a lot of trade-offs
- 00:57:04because not only you know are you on the
- 00:57:06road 300 days a year but you have so
- 00:57:07much opportunity there's so many things
- 00:57:09being offered to you to do movies why
- 00:57:10don't you try and be an actor or why
- 00:57:12don't you write five more books or why
- 00:57:14don't you do I don't know a comic
- 00:57:15comical musical or whatever it might be
- 00:57:17why don't you become a DJ DJ and musical
- 00:57:19theater those are my two prime loves um
- 00:57:22yeah I mean there's there's a few
- 00:57:24there's not as many as you would think I
- 00:57:25don't no one's banging down my door
- 00:57:26saying you want to be in a movie um and
- 00:57:29I don't know if I'd be I don't know if
- 00:57:30I'd be great at that I don't know I mean
- 00:57:33listen I like getting out my comfort
- 00:57:34zone and you know opportunities come
- 00:57:36along and sometimes you you get offed a
- 00:57:38TV show you go well give it a go why not
- 00:57:40um but I think sticking to what you do
- 00:57:42that stoic thing has really paid
- 00:57:44dividends that really has paid off and I
- 00:57:48think you have to listen to that you
- 00:57:50know and I see other Comics you know
- 00:57:51mentioning no names there's some great
- 00:57:53standup Comics that were like absolutely
- 00:57:55amazing and they're doing five other
- 00:57:57things now and they've lost a yard of
- 00:57:59pace and for me that feels crazy like
- 00:58:03you've because I'm looking at it going
- 00:58:04you've got the best job in the world why
- 00:58:07are you allowing yourself to be
- 00:58:10distracted because ultimately it's going
- 00:58:12to be hard work you know ultimately I
- 00:58:15mean people can see it I suppose that
- 00:58:17the you know something costs more like a
- 00:58:20a Ferrari cost a lot of money cuz a lot
- 00:58:21of work goes into it right there's a lot
- 00:58:23of work goes into that thing there a the
- 00:58:25beautiful handmade made Louis Vuitton
- 00:58:27thing is it's going to be expensive
- 00:58:29because a lot of work went into it
- 00:58:30people understand that I sort of feel
- 00:58:31the same about shows you're going to see
- 00:58:33a show you wow that really took some
- 00:58:35time every single line in that is
- 00:58:37brilliant he's not wasting any time it's
- 00:58:39no there's no fat it's just it's a lot
- 00:58:41of
- 00:58:43work when people look at you and they
- 00:58:45look at successful individuals they
- 00:58:46think oh they just must be innately
- 00:58:48motivated in some way that I'm not well
- 00:58:50I do think that's it's slightly unfair
- 00:58:53that we think about luck in a very fixed
- 00:58:56way right so Barbie and Oppenheimer are
- 00:59:00great to talk about this right so people
- 00:59:02see Margo Robbie and they go well she's
- 00:59:04just lucky right she was born she's that
- 00:59:06beautiful right she's so beautiful
- 00:59:08people can't see how good an actress she
- 00:59:10is right people just can't because she's
- 00:59:12just like sort of this stunning thing
- 00:59:14and and you look Oppenheimer right no
- 00:59:16one thinks a he so lucky born with an IQ
- 00:59:19of
- 00:59:20170 a and born with a work ethic because
- 00:59:24a work ethic is heritable right so he
- 00:59:26was born incredibly clever and an
- 00:59:30incredible work ethic right and no one
- 00:59:32thinks of him as being lucky but they
- 00:59:33think of her is being lucky it's weird
- 00:59:37thing right that's odd in our perception
- 00:59:40of of luck and how much is how much is
- 00:59:43your factory settings you know this it's
- 00:59:46always I've talked to you about this
- 00:59:48before but it's always like some some
- 00:59:50[ __ ] uh if someone's very successful
- 00:59:52you either go wow incredible Talent OR
- 00:59:55oh he works so hard no always both
- 01:00:00together always both
- 01:00:02together and or like you said earlier
- 01:00:04maybe a bit pathological in some way
- 01:00:06which I don't know whether you'd put
- 01:00:07Talent bucket again you put the
- 01:00:09pathological the work ethic the the
- 01:00:11striving a lot of that is
- 01:00:13heritable you know so what what are you
- 01:00:16going to do I think when you when you
- 01:00:18see luck in that way I think you become
- 01:00:20much more forgiving of
- 01:00:23okay it's quite crazy this idea of luck
- 01:00:25i' think been thinking a lot about it
- 01:00:27lately I was reading some stories about
- 01:00:29um even the asteroid hitting Earth if it
- 01:00:32had been a minute later than the
- 01:00:33dinosaurs would still be here and the
- 01:00:35story of Nagasaki and Hiroshima being
- 01:00:37bombed because one guy went to Kyoto 20
- 01:00:39years earlier and he really liked it so
- 01:00:40he told president truma not to bomb it
- 01:00:42and if he hadn't been on holiday there
- 01:00:43with his wife then Kyoto would have been
- 01:00:46hit by the nuclear bomb and then they
- 01:00:47went over kakuru I think a city in Japan
- 01:00:50and that had a cloud so they s [ __ ] it
- 01:00:52we'll go bomb Hiroshima and 100,000
- 01:00:53people over there lost their lives and
- 01:00:55every generation that would have come
- 01:00:57lost you you think these tiny little
- 01:00:58things that are going on in the world at
- 01:00:59all times kind of like this this idea of
- 01:01:01the butterfly effect shaping our world
- 01:01:03and it can make you feel a little bit
- 01:01:04powerless in some way because if I'm the
- 01:01:06you know if if someone's holiday can be
- 01:01:09the difference between me being alive or
- 01:01:10dead yeah it's you know it's very
- 01:01:13difficult to to you know we we always
- 01:01:14you know think about the first order
- 01:01:16effects of what we do not the second and
- 01:01:18third order effects yeah so yeah I mean
- 01:01:22that's a that's a lot to that's a lot to
- 01:01:23take in with this idea of luck in mind
- 01:01:26mind personal responsibility seems to
- 01:01:28sit on the other side of the
- 01:01:29conversation of luck which is how much
- 01:01:31can I control where I'm going in my life
- 01:01:33how much control do I have how much
- 01:01:35should I show up and [ __ ] fight for
- 01:01:37positive outcomes yeah well that's
- 01:01:40agency you should you should strive to
- 01:01:42have the locus of control within
- 01:01:46yourself like so there's there's
- 01:01:48character and there's reputation and
- 01:01:50reputation is what the world thinks of
- 01:01:51you and character is what you know about
- 01:01:53yourself and your self-esteem should be
- 01:01:55Lar based on your character and a little
- 01:01:58bit based on reputation because
- 01:02:02reputation you could you could take a
- 01:02:03hit every now and then you get canceled
- 01:02:06once in a while well once every 18
- 01:02:07months well hang on the the Netflix
- 01:02:09special drops today so I imagine I'm
- 01:02:12being canceled right now somewhere how
- 01:02:14have you come to deal with that because
- 01:02:15as a comedian you guys get it worse than
- 01:02:17anybody I don't know if we get it worse
- 01:02:18than anyone I think we're sort of the
- 01:02:19canary in the mind it's it's I don't
- 01:02:22know I sort of view it as respectability
- 01:02:25is a prison and the gates are open and
- 01:02:27people are desperate to be
- 01:02:29inside right I I'm not a respectable guy
- 01:02:31I tell very edgy out there jokes and
- 01:02:34jokes are like magnets they attract some
- 01:02:37people I've got a big following I've got
- 01:02:38a lot of people that watch my shows and
- 01:02:40and they really enjoy it and light
- 01:02:43magnets they the jokes attract people
- 01:02:45and they repel people some people are
- 01:02:47repelled by my jokes and they think
- 01:02:48they're terrible I'm not for everyone I
- 01:02:50think you have to accept that and you
- 01:02:53know it's it's when it comes out on
- 01:02:55Netflix when it drops DRS that's when it
- 01:02:57kind of the pathogen escapes the lab
- 01:02:59because people that didn't pay to see
- 01:03:01this are suddenly exposed to it someone
- 01:03:03puts a clip somewhere and goes this ban
- 01:03:04this filth
- 01:03:06okay Banning stuff it's like I sort of
- 01:03:09view Council culture as the new and this
- 01:03:10isn't saying criticism isn't valid you
- 01:03:12can criticize ideas but you cancel
- 01:03:14people and I think the cancel culture
- 01:03:17thing I think it's the new book burning
- 01:03:19it's no different the people that burnt
- 01:03:20The Beatles records in the 60s how do
- 01:03:24they feel now you feel like a dummy I
- 01:03:26bet they feel like dummies it's like and
- 01:03:29and obviously the basket of things that
- 01:03:30are acceptable and unacceptable change
- 01:03:32and EB and flow through time but really
- 01:03:36it's it's uh you know I'm I'm a creature
- 01:03:37of my time I'm going to I'm going to
- 01:03:39tell these jokes and if they get big
- 01:03:40laughs then then great have you always
- 01:03:43had this perspective or is this
- 01:03:44something that's developed like a muscle
- 01:03:46over time no I think I think there's um
- 01:03:48I think that adversity I've been
- 01:03:50canceled quite a few times and there's I
- 01:03:53try and see the positives in life right
- 01:03:54so adversity is a filter and you find
- 01:03:57out who your friends are and who stands
- 01:03:59by you and who's you know who's ride or
- 01:04:02die great turns out got loads of great
- 01:04:05friends and a couple of people fell by
- 01:04:07the wayside and great I don't have to
- 01:04:10waste any time on them
- 01:04:12because everyone loves you when you're
- 01:04:13thrown a party but in the tough times
- 01:04:16you're a bit more difficult to love and
- 01:04:19if people stand by you then then they're
- 01:04:21friends that's that's that's what it is
- 01:04:23you friendship is such an important
- 01:04:24thing it's something that we don't
- 01:04:25really think about we think about a lot
- 01:04:27about our partners in life and our
- 01:04:29children and that side of family
- 01:04:31friendship for me is such an important
- 01:04:33thing it's such a huge part of my life
- 01:04:35and really when you think about it why
- 01:04:37why do why is comedy having this moment
- 01:04:39well because comedian it's a little bit
- 01:04:41like a friendship right there's there's
- 01:04:42a there's no
- 01:04:43filter and really your best friend is
- 01:04:46the person you have the least filter
- 01:04:47with your deepest darkest you share
- 01:04:50you're open and a colleague you quite a
- 01:04:53lot of filter and someone you meet the
- 01:04:54bus stop
- 01:04:56tons of filter right Comics kind there's
- 01:04:58no there's no filter you see Chappelle
- 01:05:01on stage he's it's him great you see
- 01:05:04Chris Rock On Stage that's him it's like
- 01:05:07you feel
- 01:05:09connected
- 01:05:10lovely there's really something in that
- 01:05:13idea of as you were saying there that
- 01:05:16there's so little authenticity and
- 01:05:18vulnerability and openness in the world
- 01:05:19that when we encounter it we feel so
- 01:05:22connected to it because it caters to the
- 01:05:25demand that we have that's not being met
- 01:05:27with Supply there's so much supply of
- 01:05:29like filter girl on holiday in Hawaii
- 01:05:31drinking cocktail but it but in our sort
- 01:05:34of private and our secret lives there's
- 01:05:35very little um reflection of what we
- 01:05:39think about in our private and secret
- 01:05:40lives in the world so when we hear
- 01:05:42someone talking about their depression
- 01:05:44or their mental health we go oh my God
- 01:05:45that you know can resonate or is this
- 01:05:47not why the podcast is so big why comedy
- 01:05:49so big at the moment because the the gap
- 01:05:51between public and private discourse has
- 01:05:53never been wider and we both were we're
- 01:05:55both living in that space we you go yeah
- 01:05:58have a have a real conversation with
- 01:05:59someone great and the you know the the
- 01:06:02cancelling thing is is great but
- 01:06:05really what happens I mean you could you
- 01:06:07can recalibrate it and just call it free
- 01:06:08publicity like people are talking about
- 01:06:10you well great
- 01:06:11okay there's this thing called the
- 01:06:13Eraser test which one of my guests
- 01:06:14talked to me about before mord out where
- 01:06:16he said if you could go back and he
- 01:06:17asked I think he asked or there was a
- 01:06:19study done where they asked people if
- 01:06:20they could go back in time and erase
- 01:06:22their most difficult moment would you
- 01:06:23press the button and erase it and like
- 01:06:25these are like really traumatic events
- 01:06:27about 95% of people said they wouldn't
- 01:06:29when you think about your most traumatic
- 01:06:30moments of sort of being canceled or
- 01:06:32something like that the best best advice
- 01:06:34I got um actually the last time I got
- 01:06:36canceled I found a friend of mine who's
- 01:06:37been cancelled and he said you've only
- 01:06:41got you've only got to answer one
- 01:06:43question who's Jimmy
- 01:06:48car uh any went no who's Jimmy KH I well
- 01:06:52I'm edgy stand-up comedian
- 01:06:57okay fine then you haven't got a
- 01:07:02problem it's great and then another
- 01:07:05friend of mine just went well you need
- 01:07:06to just rightsize this and I'm what
- 01:07:09what's you've got to rightsize it she
- 01:07:12said what's happened here you told a
- 01:07:15joke and some people didn't like
- 01:07:19it yeah that's what
- 01:07:22happened I didn't didn't seem like that
- 01:07:25a deal when you put it like
- 01:07:27that and yet in the moment sometimes it
- 01:07:29feels you know
- 01:07:31catastrophic but those hard times you
- 01:07:33know you wouldn't erased the hard times
- 01:07:35because again I would say and it's a
- 01:07:37it's a you can't have an easy life in a
- 01:07:39great character and what they're saying
- 01:07:41thereby not erasing that moment is I'll
- 01:07:42keep my character
- 01:07:44thanks anxiety we talked about this last
- 01:07:47time anxiety is it's a very interesting
- 01:07:50thing I mean my kind of original thought
- 01:07:52on anxiety was the it's the flip side of
- 01:07:55Crea ity so you have a mind that is
- 01:07:57woring and that's given me every gift
- 01:07:59I've ever received right the ability to
- 01:08:01write jokes and to to be funny or
- 01:08:02whatever is from that I can't turn it
- 01:08:05off mind and sometimes at 4 in the
- 01:08:07morning when you got nothing to do that
- 01:08:08mind is still woring so you get involved
- 01:08:11in counterfactuals you start to think of
- 01:08:13all the other things that could have
- 01:08:14happened that haven't happened in life
- 01:08:16and you know people are not worried
- 01:08:18about falling off a cliff they're
- 01:08:20worried about jumping it's the madness
- 01:08:24within all of us of like well what what
- 01:08:25could happen and the worst case scenario
- 01:08:27and these terrible things and you allow
- 01:08:29that to to get ahead of you I think the
- 01:08:31cure for it for me at the moment how I'm
- 01:08:33managing my anxiety is giving myself
- 01:08:35more to
- 01:08:36do because I think anxiety you're trying
- 01:08:38to solve a problem in the future now and
- 01:08:42you can't because there's no problem in
- 01:08:44the now the problem is in in the future
- 01:08:48so you you you're kind of ahead there
- 01:08:50trying to trying to figure out something
- 01:08:53because you there's a demand
- 01:08:56for um for problem solving in the moment
- 01:08:58and you don't have a problem fact think
- 01:09:01of like people don't get depressed when
- 01:09:02they go to the gym right if you're in
- 01:09:03the gym you can't be anxious while
- 01:09:05you're working out because you have an
- 01:09:07immediate problem I got lift this damn
- 01:09:09thing off my chest you've got an
- 01:09:10immediate thing to deal with you're in
- 01:09:12that moment so it's hard to be anxious
- 01:09:14because you got something to do right
- 01:09:15now so give yourself something to do
- 01:09:18right now if you're suffering with
- 01:09:20anxiety and don't let your mind kind of
- 01:09:22drift into the future kind I suppose
- 01:09:24it's quite sort of um
- 01:09:26Buddhist in a way is your anxiety
- 01:09:28triggered by
- 01:09:30anything or is it just kind of a noise
- 01:09:33in the background I I don't think it is
- 01:09:34I think you often I think I I think
- 01:09:37there's an illusion that when you feel
- 01:09:39anxiety it's about this thing I think
- 01:09:42actually you've just got a a level of
- 01:09:44anxiety and you will you know so if I've
- 01:09:47got nothing to worry about career-wise
- 01:09:48or show wise or I'm not currently being
- 01:09:51canceled you might worry about the
- 01:09:54environment or you worry about your kids
- 01:09:56or you worry about you know you'll worry
- 01:09:57about something else so I think you just
- 01:10:00it just it attaches onto whatever's
- 01:10:02front of mind and you logically go oh
- 01:10:04it's anxiety about this it isn't it's
- 01:10:05just
- 01:10:07anxiety do you think people know who you
- 01:10:09are truly you know I I met with a CIA
- 01:10:12agent a couple of weeks ago and he said
- 01:10:14we have three lives we have our our
- 01:10:15secret life we have our private life and
- 01:10:17then we have our public life public life
- 01:10:18is you know the guy in the suit on
- 01:10:20camera your private life might be what
- 01:10:21your wife knows but then maybe your
- 01:10:23secret life is who you are when there's
- 01:10:25like absolutely nobody there in your
- 01:10:27mind and in your own space do you think
- 01:10:30people know who you are I think so I
- 01:10:32think actually weirdly um this podcast
- 01:10:35is quite important in that you know
- 01:10:36going on this going on Joe Rogan going
- 01:10:38on Modern wisdom and talking as myself
- 01:10:41is very exposing uh and writing the book
- 01:10:44before and after which is kind of a um
- 01:10:46autobiography but also a bit
- 01:10:48self-helpy-ness
- 01:10:55if we knew each other if we were having
- 01:10:56lunch you know for the listeners it's
- 01:10:58like this is yeah it's kind of what I'm
- 01:10:59like and then I've got an ability to be
- 01:11:01funny on stage which is another side of
- 01:11:03me so I think that's like it's not it's
- 01:11:06not inauthentic what I do on stage it's
- 01:11:07just like that's who I am in front of
- 01:11:093,000 people that have all paid £30 to
- 01:11:11be
- 01:11:12entertained here we go what's the side
- 01:11:14of view that your wife might know but we
- 01:11:15don't well this this this is yeah you
- 01:11:20know you you're slightly more um I think
- 01:11:22on this it's it's very much you take
- 01:11:24down the
- 01:11:26uh it's not like doing a TV show to
- 01:11:29publicize something so if you go on you
- 01:11:32know gr you're very much like okay well
- 01:11:33I've got three anecdotes and I'll get
- 01:11:34them out and I'll try and get four
- 01:11:35laughs and then I'll try and snipe her
- 01:11:37in on the other guests and be funny and
- 01:11:40it's a it's very performative whereas
- 01:11:43this is performative but in a slightly
- 01:11:44different way where you're kind of going
- 01:11:45well this is kind of what I think about
- 01:11:46the world and this is this is what it's
- 01:11:48like inside my head and it's quite I
- 01:11:51don't know I suppose when you step back
- 01:11:52from it it's kind of okay well a lot of
- 01:11:55self-help a lot of uh a lot of
- 01:11:59uh I guess therapy a you that's that's
- 01:12:03what I'm like since we spoke last
- 01:12:06time is there anything you thought then
- 01:12:09that you no longer believe I'm
- 01:12:11interested I'm asking that question
- 01:12:12because my favorite question what was
- 01:12:13the last thing you changed your mind
- 01:12:15about um I think I've changed my mind
- 01:12:17about environmentalism a little bit I
- 01:12:20think I'm I absolutely acknowledge the
- 01:12:23problem and I think the solution is just
- 01:12:25there I think it's I think it's
- 01:12:26splitting the atom I think we should all
- 01:12:28be I think nuclear is kind of the is the
- 01:12:31future that's what we should be
- 01:12:32investing in that's we've got an issue
- 01:12:35that we have a system that is full of
- 01:12:38politicians and we we haven't got
- 01:12:42Statesman we need longer
- 01:12:44terms longer terms we need longer terms
- 01:12:47because we need people to make decisions
- 01:12:49like everything's about um about rewards
- 01:12:53right so what do we reward it's on a 5
- 01:12:55year cycle so no one's ever going to
- 01:12:57invest in nuclear because it's going to
- 01:12:58take 20 years to pay off but they should
- 01:13:01be rewarded for that somehow we need to
- 01:13:03find a way to reward politicians for
- 01:13:07what they did 20 years ago because if we
- 01:13:09do that it's there there's a better
- 01:13:11future right and I I don't know if
- 01:13:14Britain doing it makes any difference
- 01:13:16like people often say well if Britain
- 01:13:18does it it doesn't make any difference
- 01:13:20because well China's not going to do it
- 01:13:21or India's not going to do it but you go
- 01:13:22well actually if we did it if we did
- 01:13:24something something radical and went all
- 01:13:28nuclear there been incredible examples
- 01:13:31to set to the rest of the world here's
- 01:13:33what I do here's my you want to hear my
- 01:13:34pitch all right here's my political
- 01:13:36pitch right nuclear submarines have been
- 01:13:38testing this for 50 years they're
- 01:13:39perfectly safe right people going to
- 01:13:41live in a nuclear sub next to the
- 01:13:42reactor they're fine right so we build
- 01:13:45one of those there's no not in my
- 01:13:46backyard we put it in everyone's
- 01:13:47backyard there's a nuclear reactor like
- 01:13:50a submarine in every city bury it have a
- 01:13:52small power unit in every city City and
- 01:13:55town in Britain okay and then it's quite
- 01:13:58expensive so you pay your fuel Bill and
- 01:14:00in 20 years time we don't worry about
- 01:14:01cop 23 we we burn all the fossil fuels
- 01:14:04we want for 20 years and then in one day
- 01:14:06we go totally green right no more fossil
- 01:14:08fuels well a little bit for fertilizers
- 01:14:10and stuff but no more essentially and
- 01:14:12then fuel over the next 10 years uh
- 01:14:15Power becomes
- 01:14:17free so we say to businesses around the
- 01:14:20world you want to set up a business in
- 01:14:21Britain it's quite expensive to employ
- 01:14:22people but Energy's free you think we
- 01:14:25live in a world where energy will be of
- 01:14:26value in 20 years
- 01:14:28time is it going to be the thing yes so
- 01:14:32you say to your Amazon and your Googles
- 01:14:34do you want to set up the place here
- 01:14:35yeah
- 01:14:36great if I rule the world that's what I
- 01:14:38would do Trump's probably going to come
- 01:14:40back into Power isn't he by the looks of
- 01:14:42things Biden's not doesn't seem to be
- 01:14:43very compelling to people according to
- 01:14:44some of the polls I mean a week is a
- 01:14:46long time in politics who knows who
- 01:14:48knows what will happen I think America
- 01:14:50will be fine regardless America is um
- 01:14:54Geographic rically economically uh it's
- 01:14:57a net exporter of fuel and of food it's
- 01:15:01got incredible Neighbors in Canada and
- 01:15:03Mexico it is it's going to have the most
- 01:15:06incredible 20 years regardless of who
- 01:15:08gets in they're going to double their
- 01:15:11industrial base in the next 20 years
- 01:15:13because everything that was globalized
- 01:15:16is becoming more insula uh which isn't
- 01:15:18necessarily good for the world but very
- 01:15:19good for America America can afford to
- 01:15:21have a terrible political system because
- 01:15:23it is so blessed
- 01:15:25they're going to own much of the AI race
- 01:15:27as well all the big AI companies seem to
- 01:15:28be based in America and that feel feels
- 01:15:30like that's going to really I'm not
- 01:15:32worried about Ai No AI is a covers band
- 01:15:36it's it's artificial intelligence it's
- 01:15:38not artificial Consciousness right so if
- 01:15:40you tell it to write a joke it can spit
- 01:15:42back stuff that you've already written
- 01:15:43and reorder it slightly but yeah don't
- 01:15:47worry about it but if you imagine the
- 01:15:48Beatles aren't worried about the bootleg
- 01:15:49Beatles but if you imagine at sort of
- 01:15:52even a 20% rate of improvement every
- 01:15:54year it's it's only going to take and
- 01:15:56you know that compounds it's only going
- 01:15:57to take us five or 10 years before
- 01:15:58there's a [ __ ] AI that can crack a
- 01:16:01joke really really [ __ ] well great
- 01:16:04and and an original
- 01:16:06joke I don't know whether it's going to
- 01:16:07be original I think there is something
- 01:16:09about I mean uh you know I don't know
- 01:16:12genius is an over overused term right so
- 01:16:14there's there's uh there's two types of
- 01:16:16Genius right there's there's um there's
- 01:16:19innate actual genius there's you know
- 01:16:22bark or bethoven or whatever you know
- 01:16:24genius genius and then there's um hyper
- 01:16:27accelerated
- 01:16:29rationality and it's kind of what you
- 01:16:31know people talk about comic genius and
- 01:16:32they go that's what they're talking
- 01:16:33about hyper accelerated rationality and
- 01:16:36I think AI is a long way from either of
- 01:16:39them like of coming up generating
- 01:16:41something that's genuinely
- 01:16:43original no it's a covers band it can it
- 01:16:47it can it can go well that's the genre
- 01:16:49and I can do something that's a bit
- 01:16:50similar but there's something about
- 01:16:52human creativity that I don't think it's
- 01:16:54getting close to
- 01:16:55and maybe I'm being naive but I think
- 01:16:58it'll be an incredible thing for the
- 01:17:00world because I think new jobs will come
- 01:17:04along this wasn't a job 10 years ago
- 01:17:07right being a podcaster you tell someone
- 01:17:09I'm going to do I'm going to do sort of
- 01:17:10a long radio show but people but it's an
- 01:17:13individual you'd have to explain it you
- 01:17:16know it things change and it's only when
- 01:17:19you sort of look back you go oh wow
- 01:17:20that's interesting the biggest TV
- 01:17:22channel in the world is YouTube
- 01:17:25and no one noticed the BBC were battling
- 01:17:28with ITV about who's going to get the
- 01:17:30higher ratings on a Saturday night and
- 01:17:32YouTube stole their lunch because they
- 01:17:34weren't paying
- 01:17:35attention is that not AI well it's the
- 01:17:39world it's the world progresses and
- 01:17:41things move on and it's always been fine
- 01:17:44I think people worrying about AI it
- 01:17:45really strikes me it's the people going
- 01:17:47well these we've got to smash up these
- 01:17:49these cotton making machines because
- 01:17:51this is this is this can't happen
- 01:17:53there'll be no new jobs they'll just be
- 01:17:55different jobs I read a book called The
- 01:17:56innovators dilemma and it really changed
- 01:17:59my mind on a few things they go back
- 01:18:00through history and they look at all of
- 01:18:02the big steps forward in Innovation and
- 01:18:04they basically categorize two types of
- 01:18:06innovation I'll call it the upward
- 01:18:07opportunity and the downward opportunity
- 01:18:09so if you're selling horses back in the
- 01:18:121880s the upward opportunity is the
- 01:18:14thing that all your customers are asking
- 01:18:15for it is the thing that you know how to
- 01:18:17do it is the thing that you have your
- 01:18:18supply chain setup to deliver on which
- 01:18:20is faster and better horses you know you
- 01:18:22can imagine the meeting that you're the
- 01:18:24CEO of horse company I come in I go
- 01:18:25listen boss got an idea they go what is
- 01:18:27it I go faster horses you go people
- 01:18:29asking for it I go yeah do we know how
- 01:18:30to do it yeah um do we have a customer B
- 01:18:33yeah let's do that then then another guy
- 01:18:35comes in and says Jimmy I've got an idea
- 01:18:37um cars are they better no you have to
- 01:18:40walk in front of it with a red red flag
- 01:18:41and it goes 10 miles an hour do we know
- 01:18:43how to do it no is anyone asking for it
- 01:18:46no one none of our customers have asked
- 01:18:47for a horse yeah that is the downward
- 01:18:49opportunity and throughout history the
- 01:18:51incumbents always ignore the downward
- 01:18:53opportunity because their incentives as
- 01:18:55you said their incentives are set up to
- 01:18:58pursue what we call the sustaining
- 01:18:59Innovation the obvious thing in front of
- 01:19:01them become a better comedian or become
- 01:19:03a better podcaster get another camera
- 01:19:05the downward opportunity I asked myself
- 01:19:07what is the downward opportunity in
- 01:19:08podcasting L you should ask uh you
- 01:19:10should ask comedians comedians got an
- 01:19:12interesting way of thinking I think
- 01:19:13we're very similar to
- 01:19:15detectives because we think backwards
- 01:19:18most people think about what's next
- 01:19:19right which is what you're talking about
- 01:19:20there is what's next what's the next
- 01:19:21thing what's the next thing and we go
- 01:19:23well this is the state of affairs how
- 01:19:25did this happen it's the same as it's
- 01:19:27like being Sherlock Holmes you go how
- 01:19:28the how the hell did that you kind of
- 01:19:30you're reverse engineering a lot of the
- 01:19:32time it's very interesting that this is
- 01:19:34this may yet be a business
- 01:19:38podcast I think I I honestly think with
- 01:19:41the right amount of work if you really
- 01:19:42put yourself into this I genuinely think
- 01:19:44you can occasionally talk about
- 01:19:46business I tried to I try and weave it
- 01:19:48in where I can yeah but that's
- 01:19:50interesting that the the podcast thing
- 01:19:51of going no one saw podcast coming
- 01:19:54nobody like this and yet what's missing
- 01:19:56from our lives right what's what's
- 01:19:58missing what's the nature of BS of
- 01:20:00vacuum well people aren't having
- 01:20:02conversations people are when you look
- 01:20:04around the world all those people that
- 01:20:05live to 100 all of those zones and
- 01:20:07people go oh yeah they eat loads of
- 01:20:09olive oil and fish maybe that's the
- 01:20:10answer no it isn't they eat with other
- 01:20:12people they have a conversation they're
- 01:20:14part of a community that's the
- 01:20:16difference they've got something to live
- 01:20:18for the olive oil isn't making any
- 01:20:21[ __ ] difference the connection to
- 01:20:23other human beings is what are you doing
- 01:20:25here you're connecting to people you're
- 01:20:27having a conversation so people are
- 01:20:28eavesdropping on a conversation but in
- 01:20:30their heads they're having a
- 01:20:31conversation and they're the stuff we're
- 01:20:33talking about they're relating to their
- 01:20:35lives great nobody was asking for this
- 01:20:38though nobody was saying do you know
- 01:20:39what I want three hours of Jimmy Carr
- 01:20:42talking about life no one was like
- 01:20:43demanding that in the like B someone you
- 01:20:45know someone roll rolling their eyes as
- 01:20:48they listen to this yeah and I'm turning
- 01:20:49off now but in that industry they
- 01:20:51probably thought people want bigger TVs
- 01:20:53and thinner TVs that's what they want
- 01:20:54they want to watch the BBC on a thinner
- 01:20:56bigger television so we're going to
- 01:20:58deliver it to them whereas the the down
- 01:21:00opportunity was in fact they wanted
- 01:21:02connection they wanted it to be longer
- 01:21:04form they didn't want loads of ads every
- 01:21:06six seconds inside of it is this not the
- 01:21:08great sort of if you're listening to
- 01:21:10this and you're thinking right what am I
- 01:21:11going to do it's like it's not like
- 01:21:14someone has spotted the Gap in the
- 01:21:15market you could be the person you know
- 01:21:18and it's it's that thing of like do what
- 01:21:19you do authentically um I I always think
- 01:21:22like Joe Rogan's a really interesting
- 01:21:24example of that of someone that's
- 01:21:25entirely authentic what you talk about
- 01:21:28comedy and MMA and life and slightly
- 01:21:33kind of you
- 01:21:34know philosophy stuff that he's
- 01:21:36interested he's exactly the same guy he
- 01:21:38was 20 years in The Comedy Store 20
- 01:21:40years ago in The Comedy Store back
- 01:21:41backstage chatting he's exactly that guy
- 01:21:45totally authentic and people just yeah
- 01:21:49great I listen to that all day you're
- 01:21:51exactly who you are I mean I love the
- 01:21:53idea that you think there's still a bit
- 01:21:54of you that thinks it's a business
- 01:21:56podcast it's not it's not you re you
- 01:21:59have a thing where you love stories and
- 01:22:01you love chatting to people and you love
- 01:22:03learning and that's what it is this is
- 01:22:05just it's the this should be called the
- 01:22:07education of Steven bartler well I the
- 01:22:10reason I think this is a business
- 01:22:11podcast is because of what I said I
- 01:22:12think business is mental like this is
- 01:22:14called The Diary of a CEO right what
- 01:22:17would you find in the Diary of a CEO you
- 01:22:18wouldn't find [ __ ] forecasts and pnls
- 01:22:21would you you'd find problems with his
- 01:22:22wife and you'd find that he's having anx
- 01:22:24xiety attacks and you'd find that he's
- 01:22:26doesn't know what the [ __ ] he's doing so
- 01:22:28the whole point of this was to go into
- 01:22:29the Diary of a CEO the things you that's
- 01:22:32not business that's the rest of his life
- 01:22:36this is about life I mean I I love it I
- 01:22:37absolutely love it I'm not breaking your
- 01:22:39balls but it's like it's it's uh it's
- 01:22:41it's great the way that it's kind of
- 01:22:42developed I think yeah it's been led by
- 01:22:46as you say curiosity I get people all
- 01:22:47the time will say Steve we want the
- 01:22:49[ __ ] CEOs back we want to listen to
- 01:22:51the business people or whatever and I
- 01:22:53just go you know I can't do that for a
- 01:22:54decade what I can do for a decade is
- 01:22:56follow my curiosity like I could do that
- 01:22:58for the next 30 40 years and at some
- 01:23:01point I'm going to care about a zmek and
- 01:23:02I cared about psychedelics and so that's
- 01:23:05what I'm going to talk about and if you
- 01:23:06don't like it then there are three other
- 01:23:08million other options yeah I think that
- 01:23:11thing about that's going with your gut
- 01:23:13is going to be the way to go because if
- 01:23:16you like the show and if you're having
- 01:23:17interest in conversations I think the
- 01:23:19listener will will go with that and if
- 01:23:21you try and give them what they wanted I
- 01:23:24think it's the it's exactly that thing
- 01:23:26of going we need Better Faster Horses
- 01:23:27not a car and you're going well you need
- 01:23:29a car cuz whatever this is in 10 years
- 01:23:31time it's going to be different right
- 01:23:33it's going be it'll be something I'll
- 01:23:34dad and I'll be thinking about a
- 01:23:36different set of problems and I'll be
- 01:23:37speaking to parental psychologists about
- 01:23:39what F do with my kids and stuff yeah um
- 01:23:42but Rogan was the blue I have to say it
- 01:23:44and I think I've dm'd him it I don't
- 01:23:45think he replied but I just said to him
- 01:23:47one day that the blueprint he said about
- 01:23:49authenticity and following whatever it
- 01:23:51is you're interested in has helped me so
- 01:23:53much because is there's more pressure to
- 01:23:56change when there's more people watching
- 01:23:59and they can I've seen petitions and
- 01:24:01I've seen little movements on LinkedIn
- 01:24:03trying to get me to have more of these
- 01:24:04kind of people on the single biggest
- 01:24:06request I have on this podcast is to
- 01:24:08quote interview normal people that are
- 01:24:11at the start of their Journey that's the
- 01:24:12quote that's what they say to me um and
- 01:24:16I go well if you'd interviewed Stephen
- 01:24:18at
- 01:24:2018 yeah not a lot to talk about um you
- 01:24:23know so it really be them interviewing
- 01:24:25me maybe that tends to what happens who
- 01:24:27would be the student in that situation
- 01:24:29um but it's that's the most popular
- 01:24:32request I get is to go and interview
- 01:24:34quote unquote normal
- 01:24:36people so yeah ignoring that I mean as
- 01:24:39you must have been able had to ignore
- 01:24:41the external pressure of changing or
- 01:24:43telling a certain type of joke or being
- 01:24:44a certain type of no I think I think I
- 01:24:46think the audience though for me because
- 01:24:48in that immediate feedback loop they do
- 01:24:49tell me what they find funny and that
- 01:24:52kind of leads you down the road of going
- 01:24:54that's that's interesting people want to
- 01:24:56hear this I think the reason people are
- 01:24:57drawn to my comedy is partly because
- 01:25:00there's not a lot of censorship in our
- 01:25:01society there's quite a lot of self
- 01:25:04censorship so people aren't speaking
- 01:25:07freely in the office or even at home
- 01:25:10they're not saying what they really
- 01:25:11think if you notice this thing opinion
- 01:25:13polls don't seem as accurate as they
- 01:25:14once were and that's because people
- 01:25:16don't feel like they don't vote in the
- 01:25:19same way as they as they as they express
- 01:25:23themselves in the world
- 01:25:25so they come and see me live and there's
- 01:25:27no filter and this guy's saying whatever
- 01:25:29he wants this guy doesn't seem to give a
- 01:25:30[ __ ] very
- 01:25:32cathartic if you're spending your days
- 01:25:34going well I know what the right thing
- 01:25:36to say is so I'll say the right thing
- 01:25:37you know if you want to see who has
- 01:25:39power in a society who can't you
- 01:25:41criticize and making jokes and making
- 01:25:44light of all of that stuff is is
- 01:25:46powerful because it it uh it's about
- 01:25:49free speech and it's about um the
- 01:25:51Overton window you know that Overton
- 01:25:53window of what is and what isn't
- 01:25:55acceptable to speak about you know so
- 01:25:57there's an no window in politics of what
- 01:25:59what is and what isn't acceptable policy
- 01:26:02and then there's an overturn window of
- 01:26:03what is and what isn't acceptable to
- 01:26:04talk about in polite society and I think
- 01:26:07comedy has a really valuable role in
- 01:26:09moving that overturn window in what what
- 01:26:11people can discuss what people can talk
- 01:26:13about I'm always very interested in like
- 01:26:15occasionally it happens where you'll
- 01:26:17overhear the audience leaving a comedy
- 01:26:19show and have such great
- 01:26:21conversations it's really interesting
- 01:26:23how it like just Taps into they just
- 01:26:25feel a bit Freer and looser because
- 01:26:28they've listened to someone on stage
- 01:26:29being very loose and they're not
- 01:26:32buttoned down they're not trying to
- 01:26:33self-censor or say the right
- 01:26:35thing self- expression and expression
- 01:26:37generally has just been on such a
- 01:26:39journey like you know this whole idea of
- 01:26:41wokeism and what you can and can't say
- 01:26:43it's I mean it really accelerated in the
- 01:26:45last 10 years to the point that it's
- 01:26:47it's quite you know it's quite if I look
- 01:26:49back at comedy videos from 20 years ago
- 01:26:52they really seem to just be able to say
- 01:26:53whatever the [ __ ] they wanted to say and
- 01:26:55then we went through this era of like
- 01:26:57censorship and cancellation and there's
- 01:27:00no time in human history where the good
- 01:27:02guys have censored
- 01:27:04stuff it's never happened so wherever
- 01:27:08that's coming from whether it's the
- 01:27:09right you know the marry White House ban
- 01:27:11this filth which used to be the case or
- 01:27:14the left the idea that the there's um
- 01:27:17you know a hate speech or or the idea
- 01:27:20that something could be words can be
- 01:27:22violence um which is you know what
- 01:27:25people say when they've never
- 01:27:26experienced real violence I guess um the
- 01:27:29there's such demand for violence we had
- 01:27:30to we had to co-opt words into it but
- 01:27:33the idea of going this you're trying to
- 01:27:35censor stuff is is a bad idea free
- 01:27:37speech is a very good idea because those
- 01:27:39thoughts don't go away if people don't
- 01:27:42express themselves they just get they
- 01:27:43get suppressed and and actually just
- 01:27:45speaking freely about stuff and talking
- 01:27:47about it is is very very valuable when
- 01:27:50you're trying to build something the
- 01:27:51problem that we all face is we need to
- 01:27:54talent and skills that we don't have
- 01:27:56ourselves and we can waste so much time
- 01:27:59trying to learn a new skill when really
- 01:28:01what we should be doing is using a
- 01:28:03platform like fiverr.com where you have
- 01:28:06Global access to reviewed tried and
- 01:28:09tested worldclass Talent at your
- 01:28:12fingertips that you can access in a
- 01:28:14flexible and affordable way fiver for me
- 01:28:17when I was starting out in business was
- 01:28:18a real unlock it was a bit of a hack
- 01:28:20because I used to think that the only
- 01:28:22way for me to add skills to to my
- 01:28:24project was by hiring full-time staff
- 01:28:27and bringing them into the office
- 01:28:29fiver.com changes that and if you're in
- 01:28:31that position now where there's a skill
- 01:28:33you're missing for a project that
- 01:28:34matters to you here's what you have to
- 01:28:36do visit fiverr.com diary tolearn more
- 01:28:39and here's the great thing if it doesn't
- 01:28:41go well Fiverr offer a pretty amazing
- 01:28:43money back guarantee so what are you
- 01:28:46waiting
- 01:28:47for if you were a podcaster would you
- 01:28:49have anyone on the podcast would there
- 01:28:51be any limits you would set that's
- 01:28:53something I think about a lot where are
- 01:28:54my limits because I get a lot of
- 01:28:55messages saying would you have this
- 01:28:56person on would you speak to Trump would
- 01:28:58you speak to Vladimir Putin would you
- 01:29:00speak to you know yeah I mean I think I
- 01:29:02think you're I think you have to speak
- 01:29:04to everyone I think the idea of going
- 01:29:07that there's there's people that are
- 01:29:08beyond the pale people have got like
- 01:29:10there's people with bad ideas right I
- 01:29:11don't know if there's that many bad
- 01:29:12people but there's bad incentives and
- 01:29:14people that follow them and talking to
- 01:29:17everyone seems incredibly valuable to me
- 01:29:19and the idea that you go yeah that's how
- 01:29:21life moves forward you know there's you
- 01:29:23know even you want to be a Marxist it's
- 01:29:25a dialectic of going well this person I
- 01:29:27don't agree with and you have the
- 01:29:28conversation and with an open mind and
- 01:29:31an open heart and maybe you change their
- 01:29:32mind and how do you move the
- 01:29:34conversation forward I mean the great
- 01:29:35mystery for me in politics is the idea
- 01:29:37that people talk about um Hypocrites in
- 01:29:40politics changing their mind about
- 01:29:44things of course he changed his mind the
- 01:29:46facts have changed that the world's
- 01:29:48changed you move
- 01:29:50on Obama ran on an anti-gay marriage
- 01:29:53ticket
- 01:29:55but the world moves on and things
- 01:29:57progress and you know I'm I'm you know a
- 01:30:00progressive but I think the idea of not
- 01:30:03listening to people is poison you know
- 01:30:06you think about why Hillary lost the
- 01:30:09election right it was that deplorables
- 01:30:11thing remember when she talked about the
- 01:30:13deplorables and you can't talk to those
- 01:30:16people and it was like no those are
- 01:30:18those are just working class people and
- 01:30:20they've got they've got worries and you
- 01:30:23need to talk to them about those worries
- 01:30:25you can't just write them all off and go
- 01:30:27well they're despicable people you know
- 01:30:29that Urban Elite kind of thing you've
- 01:30:31got to bring them in have the
- 01:30:33conversation you'll get someone with it
- 01:30:36you you know you have to listen to that
- 01:30:37you have to listen to all the different
- 01:30:39sides of the argument otherwise we're
- 01:30:41entrenched we're just in these little
- 01:30:43you know and it's it's that thing of
- 01:30:45like it becomes uh identity you know
- 01:30:49which party that you follow crazy people
- 01:30:51don't like to follow people that they
- 01:30:52disagree with online in particular
- 01:30:54because that's creating cognitive
- 01:30:55dissonance isn't it it's a constant
- 01:30:57confrontation of a set of ideas that
- 01:31:00threaten or challenge you in some way so
- 01:31:01we'd rather just create this little Echo
- 01:31:03chamber of individuals that will confirm
- 01:31:06my set my set of existing beliefs and
- 01:31:08that's what you know one of the things I
- 01:31:09I made the decision to do about two
- 01:31:11three years ago was just to follow
- 01:31:12everyone that I am viscerally sort of
- 01:31:15repulsed by should I say yeah and if you
- 01:31:18had them on the show if you had people
- 01:31:19on the show that you go I don't really
- 01:31:20agree with what they say but yes yeah
- 01:31:23it's I I feel like great to be back
- 01:31:27yeah the uh that's interesting I think
- 01:31:29that's really I think that's really
- 01:31:30valuable I think that's a more
- 01:31:31interesting conversation as well because
- 01:31:33if you're just going to nod along with
- 01:31:35someone and go well it's talking sense
- 01:31:37that's great it's like you know and it I
- 01:31:40think to have those kind of difficult
- 01:31:41conversations is really it's a valuable
- 01:31:43thing one thing you said which surprised
- 01:31:45me because it didn't come at all up at
- 01:31:48all in our previous conversation at all
- 01:31:50and even in my prior research was you
- 01:31:53said that you feel like you have a
- 01:31:54lowlevel eating
- 01:31:55disorder yeah I think I'm very uh very
- 01:31:58conscious of my uh weight and my
- 01:32:02appearance and I think that's
- 01:32:04maybe uh Eating Disorders are very
- 01:32:07they're very very serious things and I'm
- 01:32:09not um I'm not really in that category
- 01:32:11but I'm very aware of it like as a as a
- 01:32:13man as well I was chatting to um Chris
- 01:32:16Williamson on about this on uh modern
- 01:32:18wisdom I think I think he was like
- 01:32:20quoting the stat of saying men's uh body
- 01:32:23morphia overtakes women's I think in the
- 01:32:25next year in terms of kind of young men
- 01:32:29looking at Instagram wanting to look a
- 01:32:30certain way and presenting themselves a
- 01:32:31certain way I think there there is kind
- 01:32:33of an issue around it I think that weird
- 01:32:35thing about like I've had a bit of work
- 01:32:36done you know and had my teeth done and
- 01:32:40my hair done and I think there is kind
- 01:32:42of a there's something about being on
- 01:32:44screen all the time that you get very
- 01:32:47conscious of kind of uh and maybe it's
- 01:32:49slightly a control thing have you always
- 01:32:51had that um or is it developed I think
- 01:32:54it's kind I think it's slightly
- 01:32:54developed through sort of you know I
- 01:32:57think if I wasn't on TV or on Netflix or
- 01:32:59whatever I think you probably wouldn't
- 01:33:00be as aware of how you how you present
- 01:33:04yourself um so it's it's slightly odd
- 01:33:08like thing slightly odd relationship
- 01:33:10with I mean I I have kind of a theory
- 01:33:14around um around drugs right drugs and
- 01:33:19alcohol so I think marijuana when you
- 01:33:21think about it like weed
- 01:33:24uh is people are very Carefree about H
- 01:33:27well that's just a bit of weed fine but
- 01:33:30think about what it is right it's not an
- 01:33:32performance-enhancing drug it's a
- 01:33:34performance inhibiting drug right it
- 01:33:36takes away your ambition and agency and
- 01:33:40it just makes you very chilled and
- 01:33:42relaxed and I don't think that's
- 01:33:44appropriate for men in their 20s or
- 01:33:48teenagers right actually what you want
- 01:33:51is the performance and arting and I
- 01:33:52think what we should be s promoting is
- 01:33:54almost like prohibition I mean I did it
- 01:33:56kind of organically I found comedy and I
- 01:33:59gave up drinking for 12 years I didn't
- 01:34:02touch a drop and that was mainly because
- 01:34:04of Lifestyle because I was driving to
- 01:34:06gigs and driving back and then I didn't
- 01:34:08want to hang over the next day because I
- 01:34:11I wanted to and everyone was trying to
- 01:34:12buy you drinks all the time and it just
- 01:34:13felt like it was like enough already I'm
- 01:34:16going to be I'm going to be straight
- 01:34:17edge which I always like the term
- 01:34:18straight edge it's a punk rock term for
- 01:34:21being T tootal straight edge it's cooler
- 01:34:24right
- 01:34:25mhm but I like the idea of going right
- 01:34:27I'm going to control that I mean I drink
- 01:34:29a little bit now kind of socially but uh
- 01:34:32not in a problem way but giving up was
- 01:34:34quite an important
- 01:34:35thing because it was also the focus that
- 01:34:38it gives you so I don't know I I kind of
- 01:34:40I'm slightly uh slightly anti-drugs for
- 01:34:43young people I slightly think men in
- 01:34:45their 50s and 60s that that are
- 01:34:47Workaholics maybe some marijuana
- 01:34:49wouldn't be a bad
- 01:34:51idea but it's the it's the idea of kind
- 01:34:53of young people taking it and not having
- 01:34:56and it's what does it take from you
- 01:34:58takes away that kind of that that raw
- 01:35:00ambition and that's as such a sort of
- 01:35:03valuable thing in those years it's
- 01:35:04almost like that advantage that young
- 01:35:06people can't see the advantage that they
- 01:35:08have they see the the the the wealth uh
- 01:35:13and the you know the financial um
- 01:35:16security of being 50 and when you're 20
- 01:35:19what you don't recognize is the energy
- 01:35:21that you have when you're 20 that Inc
- 01:35:23inredible Advantage you have over
- 01:35:25everyone else in the office in that
- 01:35:27you're
- 01:35:28just you're just full of energy your 20
- 01:35:31years older than me exactly what advice
- 01:35:33would you give to me that's unobvious as
- 01:35:35a 31 year old you're 51 I believe yeah
- 01:35:38what advice would you give to me that's
- 01:35:40would be probably quite unobvious to me
- 01:35:41at my age about the next sort of 20
- 01:35:44years of my life stay out the
- 01:35:47sun stay out the sun sun damage is is
- 01:35:5090% of Aging stay out the sun honestly
- 01:35:52you'll save a fortune plastic
- 01:35:54surgeon uh the uh I don't know I mean I
- 01:35:58think that you know I don't know if you
- 01:36:00could be in a better place right now
- 01:36:03than you are but you can certainly give
- 01:36:05yourself gifts when you're 50 what gifts
- 01:36:08do you want to give yourself let's talk
- 01:36:10about what gifts you would like to
- 01:36:11receive on your 51st birthday from
- 01:36:16you interesting what would you like to
- 01:36:19have I'd like to be physically fit so
- 01:36:22done no problem at all you will need to
- 01:36:25go to the gym three times a week and 80%
- 01:36:28of it is going to be diet not exercise
- 01:36:32okay so you're going to need to do that
- 01:36:34but no problem at all I'm the genie you
- 01:36:37got it what else would you like I would
- 01:36:39like a happy healthy family and
- 01:36:41relationship with my partner I'd like to
- 01:36:43be married and I'd like her to be happy
- 01:36:46and I'd like my kids to be happy
- 01:36:49okay that's great I don't think you get
- 01:36:52to call that
- 01:36:54I think you get to be happy and you're
- 01:36:56in charge of that and their happiness is
- 01:36:59maybe a byproduct of that but you need I
- 01:37:02I my perception would be you need the
- 01:37:04locus of control to be within you you
- 01:37:07could be happy make yourself happy and
- 01:37:09that's good for the people around you
- 01:37:11but I don't think someone else's
- 01:37:12happiness can be your
- 01:37:13responsibility you can set up all the
- 01:37:15conditions and you can you can make it
- 01:37:17as easy as you can
- 01:37:19but you know that's that's that's a lot
- 01:37:21but but I get the idea of it the
- 01:37:24how many kids four four Jesus Christ all
- 01:37:29right so four four kids so you're you're
- 01:37:31in minivan territory already you can't
- 01:37:32even drive a regular car this is crazy
- 01:37:35this is
- 01:37:35madness um four kids so one of each one
- 01:37:38of each yeah a modern
- 01:37:40world uh I love that all right what else
- 01:37:43would you what else would you want in 20
- 01:37:44years time I'd like to still be doing a
- 01:37:45business podcast you're not doing a
- 01:37:47business podcast now very little
- 01:37:50business in this no one ever talks about
- 01:37:52supply and demand
- 01:37:54nonsense um I think yeah the the that
- 01:37:58stoic thing of like you still doing this
- 01:37:59in 20 years time what a journey that
- 01:38:01will
- 01:38:02be like think about the people that you
- 01:38:05will speak to think about the things
- 01:38:06that you will learn think about the the
- 01:38:08road that you're on and and actually if
- 01:38:09you're open to speaking to everyone then
- 01:38:12the Comm the lines of communication are
- 01:38:14kept open and that's incredibly
- 01:38:16important in the modern world where
- 01:38:18people are uh uh uh in these you know
- 01:38:21divided camps it's
- 01:38:24important what gifts were most important
- 01:38:27for you when you turned
- 01:38:2850 that you either had or hadn't given
- 01:38:31yourself when you turned 50 you know you
- 01:38:33look around on your your 50th birthday
- 01:38:35about the gifts that you either have or
- 01:38:37that you wish you had what are those
- 01:38:39things I was in Australia last year on
- 01:38:41tour and
- 01:38:44I fairly arbitrarily I mean I was always
- 01:38:46very good at trying new material and
- 01:38:48doing sort of warm-up gigs and I just
- 01:38:50went oh I'm going to try something new
- 01:38:52I'm going to do new [ __ ] at at every
- 01:38:53show I'm going to try I'm going to write
- 01:38:55jokes during the day and then I'll try
- 01:38:57them that night at every single
- 01:38:59show and a year later I've got a new
- 01:39:04show and it was so easy to put together
- 01:39:07because it was just like every night
- 01:39:09you're you're you're trying new new new
- 01:39:11new and it forces you into that space of
- 01:39:14writing more and more more and more and
- 01:39:17I feel like I'm getting better you know
- 01:39:19a year on you go that was yeah that was
- 01:39:23that was easy and it was just little and
- 01:39:26often how important is that the the
- 01:39:29routines you know the small things
- 01:39:31because I think there's kind of two
- 01:39:32camps of people typically there's those
- 01:39:33that think sweating the small stuff
- 01:39:35matters and there's those that think
- 01:39:37sweating the small stuff is
- 01:39:39inconsequential and it's you know but it
- 01:39:42seems that you know the people that I
- 01:39:44seem to sit here with that are really
- 01:39:46successful at what they do have a real
- 01:39:48obsession with the detail I remember I
- 01:39:50don't know if it's the small stuff I
- 01:39:52think it's the important stuff
- 01:39:54so I wouldn't swear anything other than
- 01:39:55the joke writing and the performing on
- 01:39:58stage everything else it's all small
- 01:40:02stuff that's the important stuff and
- 01:40:04focusing on that like knowing what's
- 01:40:05important I guess would be the first
- 01:40:07stage there but then yeah that's that
- 01:40:09seems absolutely critical remember I sat
- 01:40:11here with Walter isacon who followed
- 01:40:12Elon Musk for two years and followed
- 01:40:14Steve Jobs for two years before Steve
- 01:40:15Jobs died um both two business people
- 01:40:18he's not connected though no one thinks
- 01:40:19it's his
- 01:40:20fault no you're not you're not casting
- 01:40:22any no no I'm not saying he did I'm not
- 01:40:24saying he did but he said something to
- 01:40:25me about how Steve Jobs would even make
- 01:40:28the circuit board inside the iPhone look
- 01:40:30beautiful and this came from Steve Jobs
- 01:40:33father who who told him that he had to
- 01:40:35paint the back of the fence as well even
- 01:40:37though no one would ever see the back of
- 01:40:38the fence because it was covered but he
- 01:40:40said that truly great individuals care
- 01:40:42equally about the parts that are unseen
- 01:40:45you know the things you'll never see and
- 01:40:46I always that's incredible that Steve
- 01:40:48Jobs would care so much about making the
- 01:40:50the circuit board inside this iPhone
- 01:40:52look beautiful
- 01:40:54and why is he doing that well is he
- 01:40:55doing that because he will know you know
- 01:40:58and I and that made me think about this
- 01:40:59concept of your self story we have you
- 01:41:02said reputation earlier which is the
- 01:41:03external story of what people think of
- 01:41:05you but everything we do writes this
- 01:41:07self story about who I like when you
- 01:41:09leave I I love this concept the idea
- 01:41:11that we are a story We Tell ourselves
- 01:41:12yeah and everything I'm doing is telling
- 01:41:14me who I am so Chris Eubank Jr the the
- 01:41:16son of the famous boxer Great boxer
- 01:41:18himself says that he if he's on a
- 01:41:20treadmill and he gets cramp in his leg
- 01:41:22like really painful cramp in his leg no
- 01:41:24one's in the gym but he told himself he
- 01:41:26was going to do 20 km he says I I will
- 01:41:29physically limp the last 8K yeah even
- 01:41:32though no one's there of course why of
- 01:41:35course because you you are who you who
- 01:41:39you who you are like that's that how you
- 01:41:41do anything is how you do
- 01:41:44everything so he's all in he's he's that
- 01:41:47guy great that's it's great that's a
- 01:41:50good that's a great story because you go
- 01:41:52yes well of course of course if you say
- 01:41:54you're going to do it and then you're
- 01:41:55the kind of person that does the thing
- 01:41:57you
- 01:41:58say it's powerful right if you keep a
- 01:42:00little promise to yourself that's
- 01:42:02powerful that changes your sort of
- 01:42:04perception of self you can trust
- 01:42:06yourself a little bit
- 01:42:07more a lot of us pathologically let let
- 01:42:09ourselves down in small ways and don't
- 01:42:11really think those promises matter we
- 01:42:12break commitments to oursel
- 01:42:14pathologically okay but but you can but
- 01:42:16you can change that right you can build
- 01:42:18that up a little bit and we'll see the
- 01:42:20results in 20 years time bit and healthy
- 01:42:23and you got a family and kids and you're
- 01:42:25doing great you're still doing this it's
- 01:42:29great we'll see it I think you probably
- 01:42:32you can't beat yourself up over
- 01:42:34everything right you you have to choose
- 01:42:36where to suffer you have to choose
- 01:42:37what's the thing that matters to you and
- 01:42:39don't just let yourself down on that so
- 01:42:41maybe you're not going to do everything
- 01:42:43okay fine do you think that's what
- 01:42:46confidence is confidence and yeah
- 01:42:49confidence in yourself is just a
- 01:42:52combination and a culmination of the
- 01:42:53commitments you kept to yourself and
- 01:42:56what you Pro to yourself about yourself
- 01:42:58I think that's uh I haven't thought
- 01:43:00about it like that but that seems like a
- 01:43:01very uh logical
- 01:43:03conclusion you know it's that thing of
- 01:43:05you want to give the world irrefutable
- 01:43:08proof you are who you say you are well
- 01:43:10the world and yourself there's a mirror
- 01:43:12up as well are you who you say you are
- 01:43:15yeah well great that's a that's a lovely
- 01:43:18thing to be and to build that up in
- 01:43:20small ways I mean that's really you're
- 01:43:21talking about building character of
- 01:43:22going well I'm going to make that
- 01:43:23promise to myself and then I'm going to
- 01:43:25I'm going to do it so you don't make
- 01:43:27[ __ ] promises to yourself yeah New
- 01:43:29Year resolutions are not a good idea
- 01:43:32because if you're going to let yourself
- 01:43:33down that's more damaging pick something
- 01:43:36that you can
- 01:43:37do pick something
- 01:43:40small last time we spoke you expressed
- 01:43:43an aspiration an ambition you had you
- 01:43:45said I think we were talking about Dave
- 01:43:46Chappelle and you said you wanted to do
- 01:43:48longer form
- 01:43:49jokes yeah so there's there's some stuff
- 01:43:52in the new show so there's like 20
- 01:43:54minutes on being a dad um that I think
- 01:43:56is really funny and I wanted it to fit
- 01:43:59within my Persona as well because a lot
- 01:44:01of people sort of become fathers and
- 01:44:03they get a bit sentimental and they lose
- 01:44:04some of their Edge so the stuff that
- 01:44:05I've got about being a father is uh is
- 01:44:08brutal but it's funny it's funny it's
- 01:44:10it's a funny thing to to kind of
- 01:44:12experience as well it's something kind
- 01:44:13of new to talk about who's your favorite
- 01:44:16comic of all time Chris Rock really
- 01:44:18Chris Rock by yeah Chris Rock I think
- 01:44:20the uh the the I had the great pleasure
- 01:44:23of working with Chris as well and he's
- 01:44:25an extraordinary Talent the uh the the
- 01:44:29Rhythm and Cadence and the points that
- 01:44:32he makes and the way that he sets up
- 01:44:34material um the way that he delivers a
- 01:44:36bunch line that just everything about it
- 01:44:37from sort of a technical point of view I
- 01:44:39admire and I love what he says I I I
- 01:44:42just think he's he's he's just [ __ ]
- 01:44:45hilarious and I see the work I see what
- 01:44:48he does I see the work that he does now
- 01:44:50he's he's been a legendary Next Level
- 01:44:53performer for 30 years and he's still
- 01:44:57working just as
- 01:44:58hard and you got to love
- 01:45:02that what did you make of this lap well
- 01:45:06I mean obviously just I mean it's
- 01:45:08there's no there's no um there's no
- 01:45:12argument that's it's a it's a uh I I was
- 01:45:18I was shocked you know it it strikes me
- 01:45:20that uh Will Smith may be the greatest
- 01:45:23actor of his
- 01:45:25generation because he was pretending to
- 01:45:27be an entirely different human being for
- 01:45:28the last 40
- 01:45:30years and The Mask
- 01:45:33slipped and we saw a a Yeah a different
- 01:45:38side and I think Chris really the
- 01:45:40extraordinary thing about that moment
- 01:45:42was Chris Rock got slapped in the
- 01:45:44face his level of
- 01:45:47composure
- 01:45:49was he was like a Hindu cow get slapped
- 01:45:52in the face by a big dude right
- 01:45:55hard I just got slapped in the face
- 01:45:58that's going to be a huge TV moment
- 01:46:00here's the
- 01:46:03award he's to be admired incredible
- 01:46:08man you were on stage as well you know a
- 01:46:11couple of months after when Dave
- 01:46:13Chappelle was attacked I actually saw
- 01:46:16you in the back I remember seeing you
- 01:46:17sort of come out and just you you kind
- 01:46:19of looked a little bit like security but
- 01:46:20maybe not the most yeah me me well
- 01:46:22security
- 01:46:23so when when Dave got rushed uh and it
- 01:46:28was very scary because you know it could
- 01:46:29have gone another way um you know the
- 01:46:32guy had a knife orbe it a knife in a gun
- 01:46:36it was it was a it was a kind of a fake
- 01:46:38gun that pressed a button and a knife
- 01:46:39came out it was a it was a um
- 01:46:43yes it was it was it was a knife that
- 01:46:45identified as a gun maybe I don't know
- 01:46:47anyway so um yeah I remember I was
- 01:46:49standing with Jeff Ross on the side of
- 01:46:50the stage and then and then this this
- 01:46:52thing happened it was yeah it was it's
- 01:46:54crazy crazy
- 01:46:57scary had he got his ass beat the person
- 01:47:00that ran out and got stomped out by like
- 01:47:04well he got the reason he got stomped
- 01:47:05out wasn't it wasn't um uh malice it was
- 01:47:09he wouldn't let go of the gun knife so
- 01:47:12the guy had a gun what looked like a gun
- 01:47:14I mean it was a gun and he wouldn't let
- 01:47:16go of it and they I think um the
- 01:47:19security guys um uh broke his arm
- 01:47:23getting the getting the gun off him yeah
- 01:47:25but what are you going to do let the guy
- 01:47:28have the gun like it's a it's yeah it's
- 01:47:30very yeah pretty scary uh scary thing
- 01:47:34are CH times changing in terms of
- 01:47:36violence towards comedians is think so I
- 01:47:39think they're they're isolated into uh
- 01:47:41Eddie Murphy had the best line on it
- 01:47:43Eddie Murphy said uh he said Will Smith
- 01:47:46when he slapped Chris Rock rang the
- 01:47:48dyner bell for
- 01:47:50crazy all the crazies came out for a
- 01:47:52couple couple of weeks the guy rushes um
- 01:47:56Chappelle it's not it's not a great
- 01:47:59situation I mean it's like it's it's a
- 01:48:00scary thing when you think you know
- 01:48:02friends getting rushed by someone with a
- 01:48:04knife and you sort of think of what
- 01:48:06could have happened but he was fine and
- 01:48:09obviously you know was shaken in the
- 01:48:11moment but he was pretty pretty
- 01:48:13philosophical about it anyone ever
- 01:48:14attacked you on stage no I mean
- 01:48:17threatened you yeah I've been I've been
- 01:48:20threatened a little bit but okay
- 01:48:24not part of the game I guess I mean it's
- 01:48:27like it's that weird thing of like when
- 01:48:30you there's a there's a routine in it I
- 01:48:31talk a little bit about uh being
- 01:48:32canceled on the on the special and you
- 01:48:35talk about like what I'm going to do
- 01:48:37next time because it's going to happen
- 01:48:39again right so the next time I get
- 01:48:40canceled I've got a plan here's what I'm
- 01:48:41going to do I'm going to say I've
- 01:48:43rehearsed this I'm going to make a
- 01:48:44public statement on the day the news
- 01:48:45story breaks I'm going to say I'm sorry
- 01:48:49and the people that are offended will
- 01:48:50say you don't really mean that apology
- 01:48:52and I'll say so you're saying I could
- 01:48:54say something and not mean it now you're
- 01:48:56getting
- 01:48:57it a
- 01:49:01smart but it's that it's they're jokes
- 01:49:03you can't go around apologizing for
- 01:49:05jokes I'm exceptionally excited to sit
- 01:49:08down and watch your Netflix special
- 01:49:10Natural Born Killer which came out on
- 01:49:11April 16th there's been a lot of
- 01:49:14conversation around it because I think a
- 01:49:16lot of people are acknowledging that
- 01:49:17you've adopted a slightly different
- 01:49:18style to the past and everyone's excited
- 01:49:20to see this this newer Jimmy this
- 01:49:23this heavily iterated optimized version
- 01:49:26of Jimmy that's taken 51 years to
- 01:49:28produce and I always talk to people
- 01:49:30about our last conversation and you
- 01:49:32telling me that even you at at the peak
- 01:49:34of the mountain in many people's eyes
- 01:49:36are still trying to find small marginal
- 01:49:39gains and and challenge yourself and
- 01:49:41come out of your comfort zone and I
- 01:49:43think that's exactly what you do in this
- 01:49:44special I've been fortunate enough to
- 01:49:46see some of the the jokes and the angles
- 01:49:48in the special and I think for some
- 01:49:49reason it feels to me like Society needs
- 01:49:52to have some of these conversations as
- 01:49:54well so what even though there is humor
- 01:49:55there underneath the the jokes you tell
- 01:49:58there's um I think there's an underlying
- 01:50:00important message that's greeting
- 01:50:01Society at the right
- 01:50:02moment I very much appreciate that is
- 01:50:05that accurate is that an accurate
- 01:50:06assessment I think it is I think it's it
- 01:50:08has it is different to the last special
- 01:50:11and it's got more of me in it and it's
- 01:50:13like I'm in a very privileged position
- 01:50:16where people you know some people listen
- 01:50:18to me uh and I have my audience I know
- 01:50:20what my audience are so I can I can get
- 01:50:23a message in under the wire uh that
- 01:50:25other people can't really talk about and
- 01:50:27so that thing of going if I'm doing sex
- 01:50:29ed I do sex ed in my way and it's very
- 01:50:32funny but it's getting a message across
- 01:50:34to young men that I think is very
- 01:50:37valuable I'm excited to listen
- 01:50:40specifically about the stuff about
- 01:50:41consent very very excited Jimmy we have
- 01:50:43a closing tradition on this podcast
- 01:50:44where the last guest leaves a question
- 01:50:45for the next guest not knowing who
- 01:50:47they're going to be leaving it for oh
- 01:50:49well I've given this literally no
- 01:50:50thought so right okay I don't get to see
- 01:50:53it either which is funny people don't
- 01:50:55believe me when I say that but okay
- 01:50:56what's the have I got a question you
- 01:50:58have got a question that's been left for
- 01:51:00you the question that's been left for
- 01:51:01you is what would you tell your
- 01:51:0420-year-old self that you wish you knew
- 01:51:07and that would have positively impacted
- 01:51:09your life and helped you to avoid
- 01:51:12unnecessary
- 01:51:17pain I think I would have said enjoy
- 01:51:20yourself more
- 01:51:23try and be more present I think I was uh
- 01:51:27I think I was worried about the results
- 01:51:29and not the process at that age I think
- 01:51:31I was worried about what kind of degree
- 01:51:32I would get uh and working hard and I
- 01:51:35should have been worried about having
- 01:51:37more
- 01:51:38fun what's telling you in hindsight that
- 01:51:40that's the important thing you needed to
- 01:51:42hear at that point what was the symptom
- 01:51:44of not hearing that I think it was I
- 01:51:47think there's a there's a weird thing in
- 01:51:49uh if you're in Academia and you have
- 01:51:52that imposter syndrome and you feel like
- 01:51:54oh oh God what's what's I don't belong
- 01:51:58here I'm not bright enough I need to
- 01:51:59work harder that's valuable in one sense
- 01:52:01it makes you kind of work harder but
- 01:52:03actually you know should have what's
- 01:52:05what what's college for it's just for
- 01:52:07growing up be in the moment I what do
- 01:52:11you think of
- 01:52:12University I think University is a
- 01:52:15luxury item now I think the intrinsic
- 01:52:17value of university is less important
- 01:52:20than the what it signals about you so I
- 01:52:24think a degree from Cambridge is a Louis
- 01:52:27Vuitton bag it's a luxury item that says
- 01:52:30oh I have this um you can just get the
- 01:52:33reading list and read the books I'm not
- 01:52:35sure whether whether
- 01:52:37academia's you know I don't know I've
- 01:52:39got strong views on Academia because I
- 01:52:41was when I went to University it was
- 01:52:43free right it was very difficult to get
- 01:52:44in but it was free and I think we should
- 01:52:47bring that back I think if you're doing
- 01:52:50let's say stem right let's say you're
- 01:52:52studying any stem subject University
- 01:52:53should be free in the UK and if you get
- 01:52:57a stem degree from anywhere else in the
- 01:52:59world it should come with um British
- 01:53:02passport
- 01:53:04attached come spend some time here great
- 01:53:07it's not a bad
- 01:53:09policy your kid turns to you one day and
- 01:53:12says daddy
- 01:53:14I'm I want to be a
- 01:53:18magician what' you say to your kid they
- 01:53:20want to be a a a magician or they say
- 01:53:22that I want to be an NBA player let's do
- 01:53:24that one what' you say to your kid wait
- 01:53:27go back become a magician um uh I I
- 01:53:30don't know I mean listen it's it's uh I
- 01:53:34suppose it's that thing of like follow
- 01:53:35your
- 01:53:37dreams if they're hiring it's Chris
- 01:53:40rocks line isn't it yeah Follow Your
- 01:53:43Passion if they're hiring if you if if
- 01:53:45you're good at that if you're I don't
- 01:53:48know if my kid winds up being 7 foot I'd
- 01:53:50be surprised but if he is then maybe
- 01:53:52maybe then you know maybe there's a
- 01:53:54maybe there's a future in it but
- 01:53:55the yeah pick something that seems
- 01:53:58realistic to you have you got a bias
- 01:54:01about what you want your son to do uh
- 01:54:04honestly because we all have I would
- 01:54:07have a I would have a bit of a bias I I
- 01:54:09mean I don't know I don't know what jobs
- 01:54:11are going to be in 30 years time right
- 01:54:14you you want your kid to be happy and
- 01:54:16maybe maybe to have some sort of uh
- 01:54:20grounding in critical thinking and
- 01:54:21beyond that I know good luck Jimmy thank
- 01:54:25you our first conversation really blew
- 01:54:27me away and it it taught me something
- 01:54:30about actually about this podcast you're
- 01:54:33one of the real defining conversations I
- 01:54:34had that taught me that
- 01:54:37everyone is much more
- 01:54:39than the surface that you see and it's
- 01:54:42funny cuz when last time when we
- 01:54:44recorded it was upstairs in my kitchen
- 01:54:45my previous kitchen and the team text me
- 01:54:47when you arrived and they said oh Jimmy
- 01:54:49car's just arrived I think you arrived
- 01:54:50on your bicycle or something and they're
- 01:54:51like oh God he's just act a joke about
- 01:54:53someone's mom downstairs and I thought
- 01:54:54oh this is this is Jimmy car the Jimmy
- 01:54:56car I've seen on nine out of 10 cats and
- 01:54:58then we went upstairs and had that
- 01:54:59conversation and it just blew my mind it
- 01:55:02just absolutely blew my mind well this
- 01:55:04is the difficult second album how did I
- 01:55:06do oh fantastic oh great fantastic
- 01:55:09absolutely but no it really it taught me
- 01:55:11that um people are much more than than
- 01:55:13just the the mask that we wear and we
- 01:55:15all wear a mask you know Persona to get
- 01:55:17through life and we find it easier
- 01:55:19sometimes to wear the mask than to
- 01:55:20confront who we actually are but in that
- 01:55:22ation I feel like I got to meet The Man
- 01:55:24Behind the Mask per se and I I really
- 01:55:27like sharing that side of myself I I I
- 01:55:29really enjoy this I really enjoy the
- 01:55:30show I wish you every success thank you
- 01:55:32so much Jimmy thank you for everything
- 01:55:34and I highly recommend everybody go and
- 01:55:35see Natural Born Killer which is on
- 01:55:36Netflix right now I'm going to put the
- 01:55:38link to the Netflix special in the
- 01:55:39description below
- 01:55:43[Music]
- 01:55:52a
- 01:55:57[Music]
- comedy
- communication
- gratitude
- anxiety
- imposter syndrome
- public speaking
- personal growth
- authenticity
- life philosophy
- societal issues